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theplains
05-17-2013, 08:50 PM
I had some questions about this passage. From quran.com.

"It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual
relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used
to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations
with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you"

Why does it say, "so now, have relations with them?" Were they forbidding people to approach
their wives on the night preceeding the fast?


"And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread
[of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset
".

If a person eats and drinks from sunset to sunrise, how is it considered fasting when you may
not really be hungry after eating all that food before the sun came up? For example, if one
eats a lot before going to bed and then wakes up early and eats some more, you typically
wouldn't be hungry until the next sundown period.

In some northern countries, daylight hours are very long in the summer and very short in
the winter. Does fasting (for maybe 4 hours at most) qualify as a fast in those cases?


"And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques.
These are the limits [set by] Allah , so do not approach them
".

How was it possible for men to have relations with their wives while they were staying in the
mosque for worship (hence the command from God to forbid them this act)? For those who
were having these relations with their wives in the mosque, where are these private places in
the mosques for couples to go to?

Peace,
Jim
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جوري
05-17-2013, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by theplains
I had some questions about this passage. From quran.com.

"It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual
relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used
to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations
with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you"

Why does it say, "so now, have relations with them?" Were they forbidding people to approach
their wives on the night preceeding the fast?
Can't have sex while fasting..

Originally Posted by theplains
"And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread
[of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset".

If a person eats and drinks from sunset to sunrise, how is it considered fasting when you may
not really be hungry after eating all that food before the sun came up? For example, if one
eats a lot before going to bed and then wakes up early and eats some more, you typically
wouldn't be hungry until the next sundown period.
but from sunrise to sunset where abstinence starts at 4:06 AM and stops at 8:10 PM you'll get hungry & thirsty- that's when people have lunch and dinner even if they skip breakfast!

Originally Posted by theplains
In some northern countries, daylight hours are very long in the summer and very short in
the winter. Does fasting (for maybe 4 hours at most) qualify as a fast in those cases?
I just gave you an example of what time someone who would fast today would endure.. whether it is short or long it doesn't matter- what matters is fulfilling the fast for the subscribed month and abstaining from all sins.

Originally Posted by theplains
"And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques.
These are the limits [set by] Allah , so do not approach them".

How was it possible for men to have relations with their wives while they were staying in the
mosque for worship (hence the command from God to forbid them this act)? For those who
were having these relations with their wives in the mosque, where are these private places in
the mosques for couples to go to?

Peace,
Jim
if you make i3tikaaf you've no relations!

best,
Reply

theplains
05-19-2013, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by العنود
Can't have sex while fasting..
best,
Thank you. I see a reference to abstaining from sex the night before the fast, but
where does it say a husband/wife cannot have relations during the day time?

Peace,
Jim
Reply

جوري
05-19-2013, 04:40 PM
No you can have relations after breaking fast during the night so long as you do the proper cleansing rituals!
Read again what you yourself posted you'll see it says preceding fast or post fast but not during!
As to why - those are the conditions of fast abstinence from all desire whether food or carnal also abstinence from sin which should generally be the case so that's good training ground for the rest of the year!
Best,
Reply

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Ahmad H
05-20-2013, 04:07 AM
Here is the background story of the revelation of the verse:

Asbab An-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi:
(It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast...) [2:187]. According to the report of al-Walibi, Ibn ‘Abbas said: “This is because after the nightfall (‘Isha’) prayer during Ramadan, the Muslims were forbidden to have food or sex until the following night. But some Muslims, among whom were ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, complained to Allah’s Messenger, Allah bless him and give him peace, about this. And so Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse”. Abu Bakr al-Asfahani informed us> Abu’l-Shaykh al-Hafiz> ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Muhammad al-Razi> Sahl ibn ‘Uthman al-‘Askari> Yahya ibn Abi Za’idah> his father and others> Abu Ishaq> al-Bara’ ibn ‘Azib who said: “After breaking their fast, the Muslims used to be allowed to eat, drink and have sexual intercourse for as long as they did not sleep. Once they went to sleep, they were forbidden to do all these things until the following day when they broke their fast. Qays ibn Sirma al-Ansari went to his wife at the time of breaking the fast. His wife went out to get something [to eat]. While he was waiting, he fell asleep [and therefore could not eat until the following night]. The following day he fainted in the middle of the day. ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab also had sexual intercourse with his wife after he found her sleeping. He mentioned what had happened to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, and the verse was (is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast…) was revealed, up to Allah’s saying (…of the dawn.). The Muslims were very happy with this”. Abu ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Abi Hamid> Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad al-Shaybani> Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Daghuli> al-Za‘farani> Shababah> Isra’il> Abu Ishaq> al-Bara’ who said: “The Companions of Muhammad, Allah bless him and give him peace, when one of them was fasting and was still sleeping at the advent of the time of breaking the fast, he was not allowed to eat that night or the following day until the advent of the time of breaking the fast of the following day. Qays ibn Sirma al-Ansari was fasting. When the time of breaking fast came, he went to his wife and asked her: ‘Do you have any food?’ She said: ‘No! But I will go and find something for you’.

As for sexual relations not being allowed during fasting, the following Hadith explains this matter. It says how expiation is required if one has sexual relations during fasting:


It was reported from Sufyan (Ibn ‘Uyaynah), from Az-Zuhri, from Humaid bin ‘Abdur-Rahman, from Abu Hurairah, who said: “A man came to the Prophet (saw) and said: ‘I am ruined.’ He said: ‘What is the matter with you?’ He said: ‘I had sexual intercourse with my wife in Ramadan (in daytime while fasting).’ He said: ‘Do you have the means of freeing a slave?’ He said: ‘No.’ He said: ‘Can you fast for two consecutive months?’ He said: ‘No.’ He said: ‘Can you feed sixty poor people?’ He said: ‘No.’ He said: ‘Sit down.’
A bushel (‘Arak) of dates was brought to the Prophet (saw). Then he said: ‘Give this in charity.’ He said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! There is nobody between the two lava fields of it (Al-Madinah) poorer than my family.’” He said: “The Messenger of Allah (saw) laughed till his eye-teeth were visible, and he said: ‘Feed it to your family.’”
(One of the narrators) Musad-dad, said, in another place: “His pre-molar teeth.” (Sahih)
(Sunan Abu Dawud, Hadith #2390)

There are other narrations similar to this as well. I'll be happy to provide references to any other answers you require from any more questions.
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