Why Are They Leaving Islam?

[Signor]

Why Are They Leaving Islam?

Whether it is in the masjid, on the street, or online, these incidents are too numerous to count. If you haven’t heard these stories, then you haven’t been listening. Every day, time and time again, a troubled Muslim reaches out and communicates to someone, in one way or another, that they are thinking about leaving Islam. They explain that they have been in a troubled state for a while. They say that they pray and they feel nothing; that when they sin, they no longer feel guilty. They talk about how tired they are of the rules and the restrictions and being boxed in.

Every time I hear this story, I feel a deep aching in my heart. I ache because I realize that, by this time in the conversation, it is often too late. I ache because, while this person is so far removed from their Lord that they feel Islam is the root of their problems, the real problem is that they have never truly been exposed to the beauty of their deen (religion) at all. I ache most of all, though, because this is our (the community’s) fault. By failing to properly teach and explain our deen to our youth, we have failed them and set them up for disappointment and failure.

Teaching Our Ummah—Where We Have Failed

This failure begins at the very core of what we teach young and new Muslims alike. When we begin to teach our children about our deen, we focus almost exclusively on the outward actions. We teach them that they must pray, that they must make wudu (ablution), that they must grow out their beard, that they must not eat pork or drink alcohol, that they must never date, and much more. When a new Muslim makes shahadah (the testimony of faith), the mission of the community seems to inundate the new brother or sister with a torrent of rules. I have even been present for a number of shahadat that are immediately followed with people either criticizing the new Muslim’s dress or trying to teach the person how to read and write in Arabic!

Eventually, if our new Muslim brother or sister hasn’t already been driven away from the masjid (mosque) by our torrents of dos and don’ts, they eventually ask about Iman (faith)and how it differs from Islam. This discussion is possibly the most critical point in the development of a Muslim’s deen, yet the same people who had so much to say about rules before have very little to say here. The majority of the time, we refer them to Hadith Jibril. While Hadith Jibril is certainly an excellent starting place and a primer for beginning to understand this distinction, it is a Hadith that requires a greater depth of understanding to truly appreciate. If Hadith Jibril were the end-all be-all, then Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala (Glorified is He) would not have bothered with the grand elaboration on this conversation that occurs all throughout the Qur’an and Sunnah (teachings of the Prophet ﷺ, peace be upon him).

Beyond this, most Muslims can only readily cite one other passage concerning the relationship of Iman and Islam:

The bedouins say, “We have believed.” Say, “You have not [yet] believed; but say [instead], ‘We have submitted,’ for faith has not yet entered your hearts.” [Qur’an 49:14]

Thus, our ad-hoc shaykh reasons, Iman means “faith,” and faith will only come after you have Islam or “submit.

Then the conversation is turned back to dos and don’ts, and an invaluable opportunity is lost.

Islam, Iman and What We Ought to be Saying

When we have the chance to sit down with our children or a new Muslim and teach them these critical concepts, we need to be comprehensive, we need to use analogies and examples, and we cannot underestimate the value of reasoning and reflection. A conversation could go something like this:

In the Hadith Jibril, we see that Islam is described through a set of actions and Iman is described through a set of beliefs. This is why you will oftentimes see Islam translated as “submission” and Iman translated as “belief.” But these translations don’t do the terms justice.

For example, Anas bin Malik radi allahu `anhu (may God be pleases with him) relates that Prophet Muhammad ﷺ said: “None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself,” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]. The love described in this hadith is not a passive thing; it is in fact very active!
In the Qur’an, Allah (swt) also almost always pairs a description of a believer or mu’min with an action. For example:

“But they who believe and do righteous deeds – those are the companions of Paradise; they will abide therein eternally.” [Qur’an 2:82]

“This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah – Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them [...]” [Qur’an 2:2-3]

Additionally, when you look at the description of Islam in Hadith Jibril, you see that the very first act is to “witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah,” the witnessing of which requires not just belief, but an unwavering conviction in two of the principles of Iman (Allah’s Oneness and Messengers).

So… what does this mean? It means that your Islam and your Iman are in a mutual symbiotic relationship. An example of this is if we were to place a tree sapling and a young boy into two separate, air-tight rooms. Both the tree and the boy require certain provisions to survive: for the tree, you need sunlight, soil, and water; for the boy, he needs food, water, and affection. However, even if we provide all these necessary things, the tree and the boy will not survive while separated. Eventually, the tree will run out of carbon dioxide and the boy will run out of oxygen. To solve this problem, both the boy and the tree need to be placed into the same room. With their outside resources and each other, they can both live, grow, and develop. Our Islam and our Iman are the same way. To develop our Islam or submission requires hard work, regimentation, and focus. To develop our Iman or our utter conviction, we need sincere reflection, humility, and gratitude.

However, if we try to survive with our Islam alone and don’t combine it with Iman, we are ultimately hypocrites. Each day, we bear witness to and worship a Lord we doubt exists and we take action for a wide variety of reasons that have nothing to do with pleasing Him. If we do this, we ultimately share the ranks of those who joined Islam for political gain, for convenience, or simply because they were told to. Conversely, if we try to survive with our Iman and no Islam, we are ultimately rejecting the very Salvation we believe we’ve been given. Essentially, we are saying that while we know Allah (swt) is our Master, and we know He has sent us a Message, and we know we will be judged by how we follow that Message, we shall not follow that Message and we shall ignore our Master.

Thus, while you can build your Islam through practice and regimentation, and you can build your Iman through reflection and gratitude, either one is stunted from the start without the other. For the system to truly work, your Islam must become the Iman of your limbs, and your Iman must become the Islam of your heart. For ultimately, the greatest form of submission is the submission of your heart, and the greatest conviction is the one that emanates through your actions. Therefore, regimentation and toil alone will not do; you must also reflect, become humble, and increase in gratitude.

Ihsan and Taqwa– The Sweetness

This journey is not without its perils. While we grow in our Islam, we will most certainly be tested:

“You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah much abuse [...]” [Qur’an 3:186]

Indeed, people will witness your actions and your demeanor change, and they will not be happy. Your friends may abandon you because you no longer engage in the questionable acts they participate in or because they feel embarrassed to be around you. Your family may begin to accuse you of becoming “extreme.” Additionally, you will be tested by Allah (swt) through your possessions and by Shaytan through whisperings in your heart. This is because this life is meant as a test. The verse continues:

“[...] But if you are patient and fear Allah- indeed, that is of the matters (worthy) of determination.” [3:186]

This is where our deen truly becomes unlike any other. As we continue to carefully provide for our Islam and Iman with their necessary ingredients and as they continue to meld and grow together, our increasing level of submission and our growing conviction and faith begin to bear fruit.

These are the seeds of Taqwa growing deep within our souls. Taqwa is oftentimes described as “God-consciousness,” but it is much deeper than that. We are beings whose only true sustenance comes from Allah (swt)—the closer we are to Him, the more directly we experience Him, the more sustenance we receive and the more we feel at home. Taqwa is when we are gifted with feeling and experiencing the presence of our Lord. As we gain Taqwa, we begin to see the world for how it truly is—the blessings and Mercy of Allah become joys and splendors for us, and the sins of the world become like thorns which we see and avoid. In fact, one of the Companions of the Prophet described Taqwa as akin to walking through a path filled with thorns while trying to leave your clothing unscathed.

This is the sweetness of our religion: because of our sacrifice and because of our devotion, we begin to feel absolute peace and tranquility through our submission to Allah (swt). Not only do we feel joy and felicity as a result of our prayers, we begin to crave worship and no longer feel toil or burden from it. The joy is infectious, and it emanates from our very being. Unless your heart is covered in darkness from sin or a seal from pure arrogance, simply being around a person who has strong Taqwa is a transformative and joyful experience. This is Ihsan (excellence), and it is beautifully summarized in Hadith Jibril.

In sum, as you begin or continue your journey in search of Salvation, please remember these things. First, that you need both Islam and Iman and neither can be neglected. This means you must toil and regiment your worship as well as reflect and grow in gratitude. On your journey, there will be times when you will feel more connected to your Lord than others, and there will most certainly be tests and challenges thrown at you from all sides. However, by being patient, the greatest reward you can possibly imagine awaits on the other side, both in this life and in the Hereafter.

Having this conversation with a Muslim, no matter what the age, is a fundamental part of preparing him or her for a successful journey. All else must come secondary: just as a journey is doomed to failure without a map or destination, a person’s life journey is doomed to failure without knowing the Straight Path and their desired Destination. May Allah (swt) empower us to guide our youth and new Muslims aright, and may He guide all of us upon the Straight Path.

Source

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For Reference Purposes:

Hadith Jibril

‘Umar bin Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) said:

One day we were sitting in the company of Allah’s Massenger (peace be upon him), when there appeared before us a man dressed in extremely white clothing; his hair was extraordinarily black. There were no signs of travel on him and none of us knew him. He (proceeded until) he sat before the Massenger (peace be upon him), his knees supported against the Prophet’s, his palms placed on his thighs, and said, “O Muhammad, tell me about Islam.” The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, “Islam is to testily that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and that you establish prayer, pay zakah (obligatory charity), observe the fast of Ramadan, and perform pilgrimage to (Allah’s) House if you have the means to do so.” (The inquirer) said, “You have told the truth.” ‘Umar bin AI-Khattb commented, “It astonished us that he would ask and then verify the truth.” (The inquirer) said, “Inform me about iman (faith).” Allah’s Messenger replied, “It is that you believe in Allah, His angels, His Books, His Massengers, the Day of Judgment, and that you believe in Divine Preordination, whether good or bad.” (The inquirer) responded, “You have told the truth.” He then said, “Inform me about ihsan (beneficence).” Allah’s Messenger said, “(It is) that you worship Allah as if you see Him, for though you don’t see Him, (you know) He sees you.” The inquirer said, “Inform me about the hour (of the Day of Judgment).” The Messenger of Allah remarked, “The one being asked knows no more than the questioner.” The inquirer said, “Tell me some of its signs.” He (the Holy Prophet) said, “(They are) that the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress (or master), and that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herders vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings.” The narrator, (‘Umar bin Al-Khattab] said, “Then he [the inquirer] went on his way but I stayed with him [Allah’s Messenger] for a long while.” He then said to me, “’Umar, do you know who this inquirer was?’ I replied, ‘Allah and His Messenger know best.’ He remarked, ‘It was (the angel) Gabriel. He came to you [people] in order to teach you your religion.’”(Agreed Upon)

[Ahmad H]

You're absolutely right. Outward actions are one thing, but if the inward intentions are not fully understood, then how can a new Muslim benefit from their Salat? They need to know why these things are important.

[the_stranger]

I am a new revert to Islam, and I can see how someone new to the faith could be quickly turned away. All of the born-Muslims that I know refuse to admit this, but they often interpret the Qur'an when it is convenient, and take the Words literally when it is convenient. I am already having frustrations with this, and I haven't even been in the fold for a full month. It is my understanding that I am supposed to take the Qur'an as the literal word of Allah (swt). So, I'll ask a Muslim friend: Why are so many things specific to the Arab world, when the faith is supposed to be for everyone? For example, what is with the references to camels and oases? These friends will inevitably answer: Well, you're taking it too literally. Hmmm. And I ask them: Where does it say that I cannot get to know a woman in a respectable way, in hopes of finding a suitable wife? Where does it say that I am not capable of having a modest interaction with a woman that does not revolve around sex and misguided emotions? They say: Well, it doesn't explicitly say that, but we have to infer that that is the intended meaning. Ok.....which is it? Are we interpreting things to align them with a certain ancient culture, or are we reading things literally? This is usually the point where they exit the conversation and tell me that I ask to many questions.

The main thing that drew me to Islam in the first place was the idea that the faith hasn't been corrupted by man. Already, I am having my doubts. I am beginning to feel that since my Shahada I have been thinking and behaving out of fear alone, even though I was expecting to feel like a better person, capable of more goodness and love than before. I feel like this pushes me away from Allah (swt). I feel like I'm being subjected to the will of men.

[White Rose]

but they often interpret the Qur'an when it is convenient, and take the Words literally when it is convenient. I am already having frustrations with this, and I haven't even been in the fold for a full month. It is my understanding that I am supposed to take the Qur'an as the literal word of Allah (swt).

The main thing that drew me to Islam in the first place was the idea that the faith hasn't been corrupted by man. Already, I am having my doubts. I am beginning to feel that since my Shahada I have been thinking and behaving out of fear alone, even though I was expecting to feel like a better person, capable of more goodness and love than before. I feel like this pushes me away from Allah (swt). I feel like I'm being subjected to the will of men.

I agree with what you said in the first paragraph and it frustrates me as well because there are people, even sheikh, that use Quran to implement their ideas. They push a lot of people away by doing that.

If I may, I want to give you an advice and that is to first focus on maintaining salat and having closeness with Allah SWT. Once you achieve that, you will feel much stronger and it will help you a lot when it comes to reading Quran. The thing about Quran is that its very deep and it requires a lot of thinking. So don't stress out yourself and take baby steps! In sha Allah, you will feel better. I feel like salat is the key to many solutions. It helps out in every aspect.

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[Signor]

Assalamu Alaikum the_stranger

JazakAllah Khayr for sharing your views here.When we talk about Islam,We are not talking about Quraan and Quraan only.Islam compromises of both Quraan and Sunnah(this includes Sayings of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) as well as Life of Prophet(PBUH)). To cut a long story short,Quraan was revealed by Allah(SWT) on Muhammad(SAAWS) and the areas which needs interpretation was shown by actions and taught by Prophet(SAAWS) himself.According to a Hadith,the life of the Prophet (PBUH) has been described by his wife, Aisha (R.A) to be like "a walking Qur’an", embodying the Laws of Almighty Allah While Quraan says about him:
Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad

) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.(21. Surah Al-Ahzab).

I describe this phenomenon as You can see the Reflection Of RasulAllah(SAAWS) in the mirror of Qura'an.

As far as answering your questions are concerned,You can start a new thread every time you need it and we will gladly provides you with proofs from authentic texts,Insha'Allah

Hope this adds into clarification.

Regards

[ardianto]

Asalamualaikum

Today I walked near my home when I saw an old man walked in front of me. I knew him as an old man that sometime sat beside the street, expecting a donation. It's because he has too old and to weak for work. So, when I passed him I put money on his hand, he said "Alhamdulillah" and smile at me.

Yeah, I remember what my Islamic teachers said that in the wealth that I have there are the part that belong to poor needy people and I'm not allowed to hold what belong to the poor people. This is just one of many lessons about Islam that I've learned since I was kid.

Like other born Muslims, I learned Islam since I was kid too. Started with reading Qur'an, basic fiqh like how to salah, fasting, etc. And also how to live as a Muslim. They taught me kindness toward the other, they gave me guidance for interaction with opposite gender, interaction with non-Muslims, etc. Yes, It's made me always sure that Islam is a beautiful religion. Totally different than image of Islam in the anti-Islam people eyes.

I know that every religion is good and beautiful, but I'm sure that Islam is the only right religion. It's because I compare the human-God relationship in Islam (Habluminallah) and human-God in other religions. And I found, only Islam that right. This is why I never want to leave Islam.

But I understand if there are some Muslims who doubt about Islam and even thinking to leave Islam.

In the web few time I found Muslims asked a question "why I must become someone else?". I know this was question about Sunnah, and the someone else actually is Rasulullah Shalallahu Alayhi Wasalam.

I remember a moment when I was kid. Me, my brother and my uncle were ready to lunch, and my uncle said while smile "Remember Sunnah Rasul". So, me, my brother, and my uncle ate with hand used three fingers. I felt satisfied because beside I enjoyed my food, I also, In Shaa Allah, got reward.

My Islamic teacher said that if I follow Sunnah Rasulullah Shalallahu Alayhi Wasalam, In Shaa Allah, I would get reward for the hereafter. And my teacher asked me "Do you want to get this reward or not?". My teacher also led me to think, if I get a chance to do Sunnah, why don't I use this chance.

Different than some Muslims who forced to follow Sunnah without their teachers told them why they should follow sunnah. No wonder if they feel they forced to live like Rasulullah Shalallahu Alayhi Wasalam.

Like I've said in another thread that Islam taught through (at least) two different method, through understanding and through indoctrination. Teaching Islam through indoctrination can make the students confused and finally doubt. Or, can make the students blindly follow their Shaykh and totally reject other opinions. Yes, teaching Islam through indoctrination often used to make the students follow the will of some men.

Someone who taught Islam through understanding will see Islam as religion that full of guidance, while someone who taught Islam through indoctrination will see Islam as religion that full of prohibition. And if someone is too much prohibited, he may be trying to run away.

[Iceee]

Every day, time and time again, a troubled Muslim reaches out and communicates to someone, in one way or another, that they are thinking about leaving Islam.

Salaam.

There are many reasons why people leave religion. We don't know how everyone is feeling and we don't know what they are thinking about Islam so I don't know the correct answer but here's what I believe:

In the old area where I used to live, almost 75% of the people living around that area in Scarborough were of Islamic Faith. None of them actually said they would leave Islam, none of them 100% did leave Islam. They all stayed Muslim, practicing by completing Salat whenever they were free. They followed religion their own way whether it was fasting during the month of Ramadan, praying 5 times a day etc. What I have noticed is that the majority of people leave religion because it is too hard to follow all the rules. What we should be telling those people who feel like leaving Islam should be that Islam is a steady project, we should start off slowly and continue to get better as time goes on. As a kid, I wanted to fast during Ramadan just like my parents were doing, but I knew I had to have patience. At 8 years old, I did fasting for half-days. At 9 years old, I finally fasted 15 full days. At 10, I fasted the whole 30 days Alhumdulillah. Patience is key, start off slow, don't rush it.

Different than some Muslims who forced to follow Sunnah without their teachers told them why they should follow sunnah. No wonder if they feel they forced to live like Rasulullah Shalallahu Alayhi Wasalam.

My molesab started with telling us students to eat with right hand. Then after a month, cut your nails. after another month, have patience. He would tell us stories from his life and I love him so much and miss him a lot. When we have banquet after hockey league is complete, I tell these things to the kids Inshallah.

[the_stranger]

If I may, I want to give you an advice and that is to first focus on maintaining salat and having closeness with Allah SWT. Once you achieve that, you will feel much stronger and it will help you a lot when it comes to reading Quran. The thing about Quran is that its very deep and it requires a lot of thinking. So don't stress out yourself and take baby steps! In sha Allah, you will feel better. I feel like salat is the key to many solutions. It helps out in every aspect.

Thank you, sister. This is very good advice. Salat is my favorite part of Islam. Never has it felt like a chore, but actually it feels like a privilege. Turning my back on the world and thinking only of Allah is a wonderful thing.

According to a Hadith,the life of the Prophet (PBUH) has been described by his wife, Aisha (R.A) to be like "a walking Qur’an", embodying the Laws of Almighty Allah While Quraan says about him:
Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.(21. Surah Al-Ahzab).

Thank you, brother. I do indeed believe that Muhammad (pbuh) is the perfect example. I recall reading something that the Prophet (pbuh) said that I found particularly inspiring, though I don't recall the exact words. It was something like, Be in the world like a traveler, and reckon yourself as of the dead. This is what I aspire to.

Perhaps someone can recommend a highly reliable collection of Hadith that would benefit a revert like me?

[Ali Mujahidin]

Whether it is in the masjid, on the street, or online, these incidents are too numerous to count. If you haven’t heard these stories, then you haven’t been listening. Every day, time and time again, a troubled Muslim reaches out and communicates to someone, in one way or another, that they are thinking about leaving Islam. They explain that they have been in a troubled state for a while. They say that they pray and they feel nothing; that when they sin, they no longer feel guilty. They talk about how tired they are of the rules and the restrictions and being boxed in.

Let me share what I believe what happened.

"They say that they pray and they feel nothing"

This, I would say, is a case of not making the right connection. It's like turning on the tv and not getting any picture. Why? The tv wasn't even plugged in! Or the tv was plugged in but it was plugged into the wrong socket. Or the tv was plugged in but it was plugged into a socket that wasn't working. Or the tv was plugged into the right working socket but the antenna wasn't aligned correctly to recieve any signal properly.

Same with prayer. First, they may not even know why they are praying in the first place. They may be praying because it's the practice of the people around them to pray. So when they pray they are not making any connection to Allah at all, so it's not surprising that they feel nothing.

The solution?

Tell them the truth. The truth is that prayer is the one sure way of connecting with the greatest source of power in the whole universe. Tell them that if they want to be re-charged with power to overcome obstacles in life, then they should pray to plug in to the socket that leads to the one and only place that can fill them with the strength to overcome all obstacles in life. Then, insha Allah, they will pray and make the right connection and feel the benefit of prayer.

And this is as good a time as any to ask our own selves whether we are praying and making the right connection to Allah. Are we?

[greenhill]

Signor,
Thank you for the (long) brief on the differences between islam and faith. I believe this is the real message that needs to get across. It is difficult to make it any shorter or more brief. It is also compounded because there is so much to tell and to understand in islam and the 'over excited-edness' of the muslim brothers or sisters in 'helping' the revert in understanding and overloading on the information.

the_stranger,
I also share your 'interpretation' issues. Although I am not advocating that we go against these laws, I believe these 'interpretations' came about for the benefit of the masses. Taking for example alcohol. Why even a drop of alcohol consumed nullifies prayers. Surely it is not enough to cause drunkenness? In my mind it is because of the different 'threshold' for different people hence there can be no debate on the matter. If you drink then.... But on the 'meeting' of potential spouse, here is a slightly different proposition. There is no 'law' that I know prohibits you absolutely from this. What the law tries to avoid is putting you in an 'uncompromising' position . So to avoid this, there is a way round by having 'chaperones'. This can help avoid temptations and provide a 'witness' against 'fitnah' etc. Not sure if I have addressed your concerns the_stranger.:shade:

Salaam

[Signor]

It was something like, Be in the world like a traveler, and reckon yourself as of the dead.

Do you mean one from the below Hadith:

On the authority of Ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with both of them, who said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) took hold of my shoulder and said, ‘Be in the world as if you were a stranger or a traveller along the path.” And ibn Umar would say, “If you survive till late afternoon, do not expect [to be alive in] the morning. If you survive till morning, do not expect [to be alive in] the late afternoon. Take from your health before your sickness and your life before you death.”(Recorded in al-Bukhari)

-----------

Hadhrat Abdullah ibn Mas'ood^RZ narrates that Rasulullah^SLM slept on a straw mat. When he stood up (we noticed) the straw mat left marks on the body of Rasulullah^SLM (due to the straw mat being rough). Ibn Mas'ood^RZ said, 'Oh Prophet of Allah! had you ordered us we should have spread (a comfortable bed) for you. (Upon that) Rasulullah^SLM said, 'I do not have any love for the (comforts of the) world. My relationship with the (comfort of the) world is nothing but like a traveller who (while travelling) seeks shadow under a tree and rest there and thereafter leaves.' (Mishkaat)

-----------

Abdullah Ibn Umar (RA) also narrates the following:


The apostle of Allah (PBUH) grasped one part of my body and said:



“Be a stranger (a foreign lander) in this world or even become as if you are a traveler and consider yourself to be one of the dead people.”


And then, Ibn Umar (PBUH) continued as follows: When you live till the morning, do not talk about the evening and when you live till the evening, do not talk about the morning. Take care of your life and benefit from it before you die and take care of your health and benefit from it before you become ill. O Abdullah! You cannot know whether you will be happy or miserable tomorrow. (Tirmidhi)

Perhaps someone can recommend a highly reliable collection of Hadith that would benefit a revert like me?

Here you go,A Sahih Hadith is considered to be the most trusted and authentic collections of hadith.

For Softcopy/E-Book

http://www.kalamullah.com/sahih-bukhari.html

http://www.kalamullah.com/sahih-muslim.html

For Hardback

http://store.dar-us-salam.com/Eng_Hadith/H01.html

http://store.dar-us-salam.com/Eng_Hadith/H17.html

Don't hesitate to ask more,Insha'Allah

Assalamu Alaikum

[the_stranger]

I also share your 'interpretation' issues. Although I am not advocating that we go against these laws, I believe these 'interpretations' came about for the benefit of the masses.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, brother. It is quite helpful to know that I am not alone, and that these concerns do not make me a bad Muslim. Also, having a chaperone does seem like a practical and reasonable solution.

“Be a stranger (a foreign lander) in this world or even become as if you are a traveler and consider yourself to be one of the dead people.”

Thank you very much, brother Signor. These are the words of which I was thinking.

'I do not have any love for the (comforts of the) world. My relationship with the (comfort of the) world is nothing but like a traveller who (while travelling) seeks shadow under a tree and rest there and thereafter leaves.' (Mishkaat)

Imagine if all of the world lived like this....So many unnecessary problems would go away.

If I may add something related to the original topic, I think that reverts would be more likely to stay in the faith if emphasis is placed on these types of teachings at an early time. My guess is that most reverts go through a type of existential crisis before they arrive at Islam, and these teachings can act as a sort of 'welcoming center' after a long, and often emotional, journey.

If it doesn't already exist, I think it would be wonderful if someone compiled a collection of Hadith specifically for Western reverts. Not to imply that all of the Hadith are not important, but some, like the ones Signor provided above, I feel are of particular relevance to the Western world.

Insha'Allah, maybe I will collect Hadith as my knowledge of this beautiful faith grows, and offer them to new brothers and sisters.

[Ahmad H]

Unfortunately The_Stranger, you might be subjected to the will of men when you ask a random Muslim questions about Islam. I may not be a convert to Islam, but I had the same frustration you did when I realized I did not understand my own religion.

Before you go to anyone, I suggest you read books on Islam. You may find that the questions you ask others will not be answered, and even if they give you an answer, they will very likely give you the wrong one thinking they are right.

The Qur'an is not literal when we want it to be and metaphorical when we want it to be. It is not the literal word of God because it is not 100% literal, it has parables in it as well. When it mentions camels and oases, it is demonstrating a point. It is directed to the Arabs, but when you know why it is directed to them, then rules of interpretation follow that these seemingly specific ideas are actually meant for the general masses of mankind.

The Qur'an was not meant to be only for the Arabs, the Arabs simply had the text revealed to them so they can understand it first, then their mission was to spread it to other parts of the world. Believe me, if the Arabs wanted to keep the Book to themselves, they would have never bothered to try to spread it. They knew it was meant for the world, and the book says it itself in many places.

Don't subject yourself to the interpretations of un-knowledgeable Muslims, and then you won't be subject to convenient interpretations by men.

[GuestFellow]

^ BEST POST EVER! No drivel but straight to the point. I love posts like these. Short and snappy! Beautifully worded. I FEEL SO HAPPY. =) I AM SO FLABBERGASTED! I need to order some pizza.

['Abd-al Latif]

It is not the literal word of God because it is not 100% literal, it has parables in it as well.

The Qur'an is the actual, literal words that Allah spoke.

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

[Ahmad H]

The Qur'an is the actual, literal words that Allah spoke.

You didn't understand what I meant. I was saying that the Qur'an is not completely literal, it is metaphorical as well. I wasn't saying that it is partly God's Word and partly not. That isn't correct.

The Qur'an has literal meanings for it's verses, and there are some verses which are metaphorical. As is obvious from verse 3:7.

[Signor]

The Qur'an is not literal when we want it to be and metaphorical when we want it to be. It is not the literal word of God because it is not 100% literal, it has parables in it as well.

Assalamu Alaikum

I am sure you must be very clear in thinking with how you interpreted things.However,When we want to help a new Muslim,we don't put more confusion alongside with twisting terms.

Putting your statement in a better way,Consider Quraan like an ocean from which everyone is getting water,since one may get a cup of water(this is the utensil he/she possess) other may able to fill a water tank.Now imagine these utensils as Human Mind{making it more clear every interpretation needs to be in the light of Quraan and Sunnah}

Assalamu Alaikum

[Signor]

My guess is that most reverts go through a type of existential crisis before they arrive at Islam, and these teachings can act as a sort of 'welcoming center' after a long, and often emotional, journey.

If it doesn't already exist, I think it would be wonderful if someone compiled a collection of Hadith specifically for Western reverts. Not to imply that all of the Hadith are not important, but some, like the ones Signor provided above, I feel are of particular relevance to the Western world.

Assalamu Alaikum

It makes feels you are of very spiritual nature,its the best thing that could happen to anyone,seemingly you want to be away from this materialistic world and desires,am I right or wrong?I will explain my point further after the elaboration of your stance.
-----------------------
For the time being,You can read these

55. Chapter: On the Excellence of making do with little of this world and the encouragement to have little of it and the excellence of poverty; by Imam Nawawi.

Allah Almighty says, "The likeness of the life of this world is that of water which We send down from the sky, which then mingles with the plants of the earth to provide food for both people and animals. Then, when the earth is at its loveliest and takes on its fairest guise and its people think they have it under their control, Our command comes upon it by night or day and We reduce it to dried-out stubble, as though it had not been flourishing just the day before! Thus do We make Our Signs plain for people who reflect." (10:24)
The Almighty says, "Describe for them the likeness of the life of this world. It is like water which We send down from the sky and the plants of the earth combine with it but then become dry chaff scattered by the winds. Allah has complete power over everything. Wealth and sons are the embellishment of the life of this world. But, in your Lord's sight, right actions which are lasting are better in reward and a better basis for hope." (W18:44-45; H18:45-46)



Allah Almighty says, "Know that the life of this world is merely a game and a diversion and decoration and a cause of boasting among yourselves and trying to outdo one another in wealth and children: like the plant-growth after rain which delights the cultivators, but then it withers and you see it turning yellow, and then it becomes broken stubble. In the Next World there is terrible punishment but also forgiveness from Allah and His good pleasure. The life of this world is nothing but the enjoyment of delusion." (W57:19; H57:20)



The Almighty says, "To mankind the love of worldly appetites is painted in glowing colours: women and children, and heaped-up mounds of gold and silver, and horses with fine markings, and livestock, and fertile farmland. All that is merely the enjoyment of the life of this world. The best destination is in the presence of Allah," (3:14)



and the Almighty says, "O mankind! Allah's promise is true. Do not let the life of this world delude you and do not let the Deluder delude you about Allah." (35:5)
The Almighty says, "Fierce competition for this world distracted you until you went down to the graves. No indeed, you will soon know! Again no indeed, you will soon know! No indeed, if you only knew with the Knowledge of Certainty." (102:1-5)



The Almighty says, "The life of this world is nothing but a game and a diversion. The Abode of the Next World * that is truly Life if they only knew." (W29:64; H29:63)



The ayats concerning this subject are numerous and well-known.

457. 'Amr ibn 'Awf al-Ansari reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, sent Abu 'Ubayda ibn al-Jarrah to Bahrayn to bring its jizya. He arrived with the money from Bahrayn and the Ansar heard of the arrival of Abu 'Ubayda and appeared at the Fajr prayer with the Messenger of Allah. When the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, had prayed, he went to leave and they presented themselves before him. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, smiled when he saw them and said, 'I think you must have heard that Abu 'Ubayda has arrived with something from Bahrayn?' They said, 'Yes, Messenger of Allah.' He said, 'Rejoice, and hope for what will gladden you. By Allah, it is not poverty that I fear for you, but I fear that this world will be spread out in front of you as it was spread out in front of those before you, and then you will vie for it as they vied for it, and it will destroy you as it destroyed them.'" [Agreed upon]



458. Abu Sa'id al-Khudri said, "One day the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, sat on the minbar and we sat around him. He said, 'Part of what I fear for you after I have gone is the beauty and attraction of this world which will be opened up to you.'" [Agreed upon]



459. Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "This world is sweet and green and Allah Almighty has appointed you vice-regents in it, so pay attention to what you do. Be fearful of this world and be fearful of women." [Muslim]



460. Anas reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "O Allah, there is no life but the life of the Next World." [Agreed upon]
461. Anas reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Three things follow a dead person: his family, his property and his actions. Two of them go back and one remains. His family and property go back and his actions remain." [Agreed upon]



462. Anas reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "That one among the people of the Fire who was wealthiest person in this world will be brought on the Day of the Fire, dipped once into it and then asked, 'Son of Adam! Did anything good ever happen to you? Did you ever experience any blessing?' He will say, 'By Allah, no, my Lord.' That one among the people of the Garden who was the most wretched person in this world will be brought and dipped once into it and then asked, 'Son of Adam! Did you ever experience any misery ? Did you ever undergo any hardship?' He will say, 'By Allah, no. I never experienced any misery and I never underwent any hardship.'" [Muslim]



463. Al-Mustawrid ibn Shaddad reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "This world in in comparison with the Next World is like putting your finger in the sea and seeing what comes back on it." [Muslim]



464. Jabir reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, went through the market with people on both sides of him. He passed the dead body of a deformed sheep, took it by its ear and then said, "Which of you would like to have this for a dirham?" They said, "We would not like to have it for anything. What would we do with it?" He said, "Would you like to have it?" They said, "By Allah, even if it was alive, it would be defective since it is deformed, and now it is dead." He said, "By Allah, this world has less value with Allah than this has with you." [Muslim]



465. Abu Dharr said, "I was walking with the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, in the lava-bed at Madina and Uhud was looming there in front of us. He said, 'Abu Dharr.' I said, 'At your service, Messenger of Allah!' He said, 'It would not give me any pleasure if I had this Uhud in gold and a dinar of it remained with me for more than three days except for a dinar I would keep for paying debts. Rather I would say that it is for so-and-so, so-and-so, and so-and-so among the slaves of Allah,' indicating to his right and to his left and behind him. Then he began to say, 'Those who have a lot (in this world) will have little on the Day of Rising except for someone who spends his money here and there and there, (to his right and to his left and behind him) and they are few.' Then he said to me, 'Stay where you are until I come back.' Then he went off into the darkness of the night until he disappeared. I heard a voice raised and I was afraid that someone meant to harm the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. I wanted to go, but then I remembered his words, 'Do not go until I come back.' So I did not go until he came back to me and then I said, 'I heard a voice and was alarmed by it, but I remembered what you said.' He said, 'Did you hear it?' I said, 'Yes.' He said, 'That was Jibril who came to me and said, "Anyone of your community who dies without associating anything with Allah will enter the Garden."' I said, 'Even he if fornicates and even if he steals?' He said, 'Even he if fornicates and even if he steals.'" [Agreed upon]



466. Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If I had the whole of Uhud in gold, it would not make me happy for three days to pass while I have any of it except something I have kept for a debt." [Agreed upon]
467. Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Look at those who are lower than you and do not look at those who are higher than you. That is more likely to prevent you underestimating the blessing of Allah on you." [Agreed upon]


These are the words of Muslim. In one variant, "When one of you sees someone who has been given more bounty in respect of wealth or physical strength, he should then look at someone who has less than him."
468. Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "May the slave of the dinar and the dirham, the qatifa (outer garment) and khamisa (cloak) perish! If he is given them he is pleased, and if he is not given them he is not pleased." [al-Bukhari]



469. Abu Hurayra said, "I saw seventy of the people of the Suffa and not a man among them had a cloak. They either had a waist wrapper or a sheet (kisa') which they tied round their necks, some reaching to the middle of their legs and some reaching to the ankles. They would gather them in their hands, not wanting their private parts to be seen." [al-Bukhari]
470. Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "This world is the prison of the believer and the paradise of the unbeliever." [Muslim]



471. Ibn 'Umar said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, took hold of my shoulders and said, 'Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller on the road.' Ibn 'Umar used to say, 'In the evening, do not anticipate the morning, and in the morning do not anticipate the evening. Take from your health for your illness and from your life for your death."[al-Bukhari]



They said in commentary on this hadith, that it means: do not rely on this world and do not take it as your homeland and do not persuade yourself that you are going to stay a long time in it nor be concerned with it nor attached to it except with the attachment of a stranger who desires to return to his people. Success is by Allah.



472. Abu 'Abbas Sahl ibn Sa'd as-Sa'idi said, "A man came to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, 'Messenger of Allah, show me an action for which Allah will love me and for which people will love me if I do it. He said, 'Do with little of this world and Allah will love you, and do with little of what belongs to other people and people will love you." [Ibn Majah]



473. An-Nu'man ibn Bashir said, "'Umar ibn al-Khattab mentioned the things of this world that the people had acquired and he said, 'One day I saw the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, sifting through some bad dates he had found in order to fill his belly." [Muslim]



474. 'A'isha said, "When the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, died, there was nothing in my house that could be eaten by a living creature except for half a barley loaf on a shelf. I ate from it until I seemed to have had it for a long time. Then I measured it and it finished." [Agreed upon]



475. 'Amr ibn al-Harith, the brother of the Umm al-Mu'minin, Juwayriyya bint al-Harith, said, "When the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, died, he left neither dirham nor dinar nor slave nor slavegirl nor anything other than his white mule which he used to ride, his weapons, and some land that he made sadaqa for travellers." [al-Bukhari]
476. Khabbab ibn al-Aratt said, "We emigrated with the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, seeking the face of Allah Almighty and our reward was in the hands of Allah. Some of us died without consuming any of their reward, and Mus'ab ibn 'Umayr was one of them. He was killed on the Day of Uhud and left a cloak. When we covered his head, his feet showed, and when we covered his feet, his head showed. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, commanded us to cover his head and to put some idhkhir-herb on his feet. Some of us have picked the fruit of the reward and some of us are still gathering it." [Agreed upom]



477. Sahl ibn Sa'd as-Sa'idi reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If this world had been worth as much as a gnat's wing in the eyes of Allah, no unbeliever would have had a single drink of water from it." [at-Tirmidhi]
478. Abu Hurayra said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, "This world is cursed and cursed is what is in it, except for the remembrance of Allah Almighty and what brings one near to Him and the teacher and the student." [at-Tirmidhi]


479. 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Do not take possession of estates or you will find yourselves seeking after this world." [at-Tirmidhi]



480. 'Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn al-'As said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, passed by us when we were working on a hut we had. He said, 'What is this?' We said, 'It has become weak and we are repairing it.' He said, 'I think that the matter is too urgent for that.' [Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi]



481. Ka'b ibn 'Iyad said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, 'Every community has a trial, and the trial of my community is wealth.'" [at-Tirmidhi]



482. Abu 'Amr (and it is said Abu 'Abdullah or Abu Layla) 'Uthman ibn 'Affan reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The son of Adam only has a right to these three things: a house in which to live, a garment with which to clothe his nakedness, and plain bread and water." [at-Tirmidhi]



At-Tirmidhi said, "I heard Abu Dawud Sulayman ibn Salim al-Balkhi say, 'I heard an-Nadr ibn Shumayl say that jilf is bread which has no condiment with it. Someone else said that it is coarse bread. Al-Harawi said, "What is meant here is the bread basket, like jawaliq and khurj (saddle-bags). And Allah knows best."



483. 'Abdullah ibn ash-Shikhir said, "I came to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, when he was reciting 'Fierce competition for this world distracted you.'" (102:1) He said, 'The son of Adam says, "My property! My property!" Son of Adam, have you any other property than what you eat and thus gets used up, wear and thus becomes worn out, and give in sadaqa and thus make effective?'" Muslim]



484. 'Abdullah ibn Mughaffal said, "A man said to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, 'Messenger of Allah, by Allah, I love you.' He said, 'Be careful of what you say.' He said, 'By Allah, I love you,' three times. He said, 'If you love me, then prepare yourself for poverty. Poverty comes swifter to the one who loves me than a flood to its destination.'" [at-Tirmidhi]



485. Ka'b ibn Malik reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Two hungry wolves loose among sheep do not cause as much damage as that caused to a man's deen by his greed for money and reputation." [at-Tirmidhi]



486. 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, slept on a straw mat and when he got up he had a mark on his side. We said, 'Messenger of Allah, we could make a covering for you?' He said, 'What have I to do with this world? I am only in this world like a rider who seeks shade under a tree and then goes on.'" [at-Tirmidhi]



487. Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The poor will enter the Garden five hundred years before the rich." [at-Tirmidhi]
488. Ibn 'Abbas and 'Imran ibn al-Husayn reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I looked into the Garden and saw that the majority of its people were the poor. I looked into the Fire and saw that the majority of its people were women." [Agreed upon]



489. Usama ibn Zayd reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I stood at the door of the Garden and most of those who entered it were the very poor while the people of wealth were held back. All the people of the Fire, however, were commanded to go straight to the Fire." [Agreed upon]



490. Abu Hurayra stated that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The most truthful phrase ever said by a poet is the words of Labid:
'Everything except Allah is false.'" [Agreed upon]

Taken From Riyad as-Salihin (The Meadows of the Righteous) by Imam Nawawi

And this article too

http://www.islamicawakening.com/view...?articleID=490

[Ahmad H]

I am sure you must be very clear in thinking with how you interpreted things.However,When we want to help a new Muslim,we don't put more confusion alongside with twisting terms.

Putting your statement in a better way,Consider Quraan like an ocean from which everyone is getting water,since one may get a cup of water(this is the utensil he/she possess) other may able to fill a water tank.Now imagine these utensils as Human Mind{making it more clear every interpretation needs to be in the light of Quraan and Sunnah}

You're right that I may have worded it a little oddly. But I don't think you put it right either. The_Stranger needs a good starting point.

As a new convert he needs to read more books on Islam. The Qur'an has a lot of concepts that cannot be grasped unless he reads about them elsewhere. A Tafsir is meant to explain every verse individually for the most part. So this may not be the best way for him to learn Islam right away. Every Muslim child is taught concepts before they are independently learning the Qur'an. It is the same with converts. They need to know what Islam is, why we do what we do, and the how of it all.

He will understand the Qur'an once he knows the basic five pillars and six articles of faith and what they mean. Even then he may need to know more. The Qur'an provides answers, but it is not a basic book. Some previous knowledge is needed. My point is that he cannot get this from any random Muslim. If eve sheikhs are using their own ideas in interpreting Islamic rules, then books which are reliable in introducing these concepts are the best starting point.

Conclusion: Someone please refer some basic books on building up knowledge on Islam for new converts please. I know someone knows something good and easy to understand.

[glo]

I was saying that the Qur'an is not completely literal, it is metaphorical as well.

How do scholars know for sure which parts are meant to be read literal and which ones are to be taken metaphorical?

[Ahmad H]

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) explained the Qur'an to his companions. His companions asked about every verse, and in fact did not progress in memorizing more of the Qur'an, unless they knew about every verse they knew of so far. Thus, they memorized the Qur'an and comprehended it's meanings directly from the one who knew it best, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw).

Then the successors differed over it's meanings, but the original meanings were preserved to the best of their abilities. This is why the Ahadith and the Tafsir of the Tabi'in are the best explanations. Tafsir Ibn Kathir, is just one of many Tafsirs, which preserves these early meanings at a later time. It is also meant to be used by the laymen. A Tafsir like At-Tabari's, which preserves many more meanings also contains these chains of transmission, but these chains require a scholarly understanding in order to know which is more accurate or not.

So in short, the meanings preserved from the earliest generations of Muslims who recorded the statements of the Holy Prophet (saw), and the meanings of the Qur'an, are the ones which explain the Qur'an. From them we know which verses are meant to be metaphorical when they sound literal, and which ones are literal when they may be seen to be metaphorical. A person born in the 21st century cannot know the exact meaning of a 7th century text. Therefore, the earliest explanations of this text which are preserved are the most reliable explanations, and anything subsequently derived from that.

This is how scholars know for sure which parts are literal and which are metaphorical. It is good for a person of, let's say, Christian background to know this about Islam since they take the Bible to be the literal word of God. If a Christian converts to Islam, then they would have to know about the science of Tafsir. When they know this, then they will be careful not to indulge in any misrepresenting opinions of the Qur'an. No personal opinions are allowed. This is why the earliest sources of interpretation are so valuable and cherished.

Again, should a convert not be aware of how important it is to keep away from opinions, they could be easily misled about the Qur'an then. This is why I am repeatedly saying that if anyone can recommend some good books for our new brother here, then he can benefit by them and go on his way to becoming more spiritually fulfilled in his actions. Knowledge and actions are interlinked in everything a Muslim does.

[glo]

Thank you, Ahmad! :)
(Sorry for interrupting the thread. It won't happen again :))

[Signor]

please refer some basic books on building up knowledge on Islam for new converts please.

Perhaps the books in this links may help:

http://www.kalamullah.com/new-muslims.html

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

the_stranger, one collection of Hadeeth that is often recommended for a beginning student are the 40 Hadeeth collected by Imam an-Nawawi. These cover the most important aspects of the religion and offer direction to all forms of obedience of Allaah :swt:. Many commentaries have been written on these, so it's good to study these Hadeeth and further one's understanding of them. The hadeeth about being in this world as though one is a stranger/wayfarer is included in this collection.

There are some commentaries available online but I think you should initially find the ones that are more brief rather than the more detailed ones. Even better would be to find a study group or class that is teaching it.

[Hulk]

While the act of reading a hadith may only take a few seconds, you might find great meaning in it if you take some time to reflect on it. It would be great if you can join a class since that would allow you to share reflections with the class and the teacher can better explain the hadith but if not you can always share your reflections with the forum inshaaAllah.

[the_stranger]

It makes feels you are of very spiritual nature,its the best thing that could happen to anyone,seemingly you want to be away from this materialistic world and desires,am I right or wrong?I will explain my point further after the elaboration of your stance.

Thank you for all of your help, Signor. I feel like I should be paying you an hourly rate for your work!

You are right. I won't waste everyone's time discussing my notions of the soul and the ego, but in short I will say that I don't have much interest in things that I can't take with me when I die. Obviously, one has to participate in the materialistic world to an extent in order to survive and provide for a family, but I'm more concerned with the health of my soul, and worldly desires are certainly not good for the spirit.

one collection of Hadeeth that is often recommended for a beginning student are the 40 Hadeeth collected by Imam an-Nawawi.

Thank you, Muhammad. I will surely make a place for this on my bookshelf.

And to everyone else that has offered advice, I say thank you; It has been received and appreciated. I think I am a pretty typical example of a Western revert to Islam, so keep in mind that the fantastic advice you are giving me will likely help many other people who read this thread.


Getting back to the original topic, I agree with the other brothers who have mentioned study groups as a way to reflect on the many meanings found in this faith. This would be very useful in keeping brothers and sisters from leaving Islam. Perhaps we all (newbies included) could be more proactive in forming such groups?

[Signor]

Thank you for all of your help, Signor. I feel like I should be paying you an hourly rate for your work!

You are right. I won't waste everyone's time discussing my notions of the soul and the ego, but in short I will say that I don't have much interest in things that I can't take with me when I die. Obviously, one has to participate in the materialistic world to an extent in order to survive and provide for a family, but I'm more concerned with the health of my soul, and worldly desires are certainly not good for the spirit.

The reason behind this query is because Islam provides a system of balance between spirit and bodily needs.For example Islam closes the door of completely abstinence from marriage and intimate relations as done by monks and nuns do.It provides the way to satisfy your sensual gratification in a right way.This is why you see Muhammad(PBUH) having a life with wives and children but at the same time on the spiritual side you will find him on the top.No one has more control on himself than RasulAllah(PBUH).From an Islamic perceptive,We can use world and all whats in it(how Allah told us to do) but we shouldn't be get consumed it.Unfortunately,with many influences on our minds we forget to attain the middle path and this is why there exists two extremes on both sides now.

Getting to the group study topic,yeah,it works if the whole group is sincere and dedicated and putting their time really for what they are doing instead of "just hanging out with friends". May I ask do you visit nearby mosque frequently and stay there for less than five minutes after obligatory prayers?

Also you are making my time worth it,Don't feel shy if you need more to know or inquire:)

[the_stranger]

May I ask do you visit nearby mosque frequently and stay there for less than five minutes after obligatory prayers?

Unfortunately, with my schedule I am only able to go to the Mosque for Friday prayer. I generally arrive a little early to talk with the brothers, but I have to go to class right after :hmm:.

[Signor]

^Well,do you have good Muslims around you as your class mates?Did you able to befriend any brother till date?

Other method would be doing it online,like you are doing it right now

[GuestFellow]

Perhaps the books in this links may help:

http://www.kalamullah.com/new-muslims.html

Please purchase these books if you can afford it.

[Signor]

Why are New Muslims Leaving Islam?

Had the new Muslim been supported, been shown how to pray, been taught the foundations of Islam and given a firm foundation, been put in touch with a good group of brothers or sisters that took them under their wings and looked after them; they would have had the tools and strength of faith to deal with the tests that face most new Muslims.

“I don’t know if you can help me; I don’t even know where to start. My life is a mess. I’ve been a Muslim for 5 years and each Ramadan instead of increasing in my emaan, I question whether I can continue living as a Muslim. The loneliness I have felt over the last 5 years is one I never felt before I became Muslim. I feel it even more in Ramadan. I receive so many emails about how to complete the Qu’ran in 30 days, how to attain taqwa but I just struggle trying to get through the days.

When I took my shahadah, so many sisters hugged me and gave me their phone numbers but after a few weeks, they didn’t respond to my calls or my messages. I’m so alone, it really hurts. They told me they would help me learn how to pray. I still don’t know how to pray. I’ve tried youtube and books but they don’t work. I’m really struggling. I phoned my local masjid and they laughed at me after I told them how long I was Muslim and couldn’t pray. I’m so down and alone. I wish I could be like most and look forward to Ramadan. I wish I could read the Koran. I wish I could pray taraweeh. I wish I didn’t feel so alone. I have tried; I went to the masjid to break my fast. But nobody spoke to me. They offered me food and drink but then after praying they just ate in their little circles smiling and laughing. You’re my last attempt – can you help me? I’m desperate.” -Mandy

The picture for most new reverts is indeed a very positive one. One needs only to attend a shahaadah ceremony and observe the mixture of excitement and nervousness sprawled across the face of the one taking that amazing step; crossing from the fields of kufr into the vastness of tawheed. It is such a joyous moment – both for the new Muslim and for those who are present, witnessing the guidance of Allah unfold in an individual’s life. Most faces are streaming with tears as their hearts increase in faith in the One and Only Creator, Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala).

It is equally overwhelming for the new believer as she is swamped with hugs, kisses, books, hijabs and telephone numbers. There is a sense of a new immediate family, and the fear of what their own non-Muslim family will say and do is subdued by the hope that their new Muslim family will be there no matter what.
Quite tragically, the situation can at times be very different just as Mandy described in her email. More than likely, brothers and sisters that attend a shahaadah ceremony really do have a good intention to keep in touch. Certainly excuses must be made; perhaps they imagined that the new believer has a solid support network, after all, there were so many telephone numbers handed over that day.Others may be busy in their own lives and feel pressurised with the responsibility of helping a new Muslim. Passing on a few books and CDs is sufficient but what if they needed somewhere to stay?

The sad reality is that too many brothers and sisters leave the responsibility to others assuming that there is enough support when in fact, the new Muslim has absolutely no one to support her. It is at this delicate time that she definitely needs support as the onset of tests pervade her life. It is as though upon uttering the testimony of faith, the new believer is tested to see whether they truly believe as Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) says:

‘…We might test him who believes in the Hereafter from him who is in doubt concerning it: and the Lord watches over all things.'

Had the new Muslim been supported, been shown how to pray, been taught the foundations of Islam and given a firm foundation, been put in touch with a good group of brothers or sisters that took them under their wings and looked after them; they would have had the tools and strength of faith to deal with the tests that face most new Muslims.

Unfortunately, due to a lack of the above at the crucial beginning of their Muslim life, the following types of issues arise which sadly often lead to someone like Mandy entering Islam with zeal and belief and leaving it weeks, months or years later with hatred and disbelief…

Rejection by family
A large number of new Muslims experience negative reactions from their non-Muslim relatives. The experiences vary from being ignored, physically removed from the family home, and we have even received cases of others who were locked up and beaten by relatives. It is at this time that support from Muslims is crucially needed. However, many new Muslims endure these tests with their family with minimal support or understanding from members of the Muslim community. Often, the rejection and abuse received at the hands of family members is too much for some and they succumb to the pressure of leaving Islam feeling that they have no other alternative because all the brothers and sisters disappeared and hence there is no other alternative.

Choosing a wrong spouse
Many brothers and sisters feel that there is a simple quick fix for the new Muslim who has been abandoned by their own relatives: To get married and get married quickly! This is the case more so with female reverts than their male counterparts. The sister is struggling to learn Surah Al Fatihah and before she knows it, she is flooded with recommendations of pious brothers who are looking to get married, brothers who could help her on her path. She is given a good breakdown of what characteristics constitute a good Muslim husband; one who wears trousers above his ankles and observes a beard. Well-meaning sisters persuade the new Muslim to marry their own recommendation with choruses of ‘Trust me, my husband has known him for years – he’s a good practising brother!’ Regrettably, there is no mention of his character, likes and dislikes and the likelihood of compatibility. Two or three meetings are conducted by a wali (guardian) appointed at the last minute. The nikaah takes place in a small room within the masjid. Non-Muslim relatives who have not abandoned their daughters, look on in dismay as their dreams of their daughter’s wedding is shattered. Or the new Muslim takes the next most important step in her life without the knowledge of her non-Muslim relatives.

Months down the line, still struggling to learn how to pray, she is either divorced or living a very miserable married life. Years down the line, we find that she has remarried four to five times in the same manner as more brothers and sisters pity her and persuade her into thinking that marriage will solve her problems. Children are born into this situation and live with a mother who is severely depressed with only one visible sign of Islam – her hijab. It is only a matter of time before the last sign of Islam is removed and she seeks peace and tranquillity in her old lifestyle or religion. This example may seem extreme to many but shockingly this is the reality for many new Muslims.

Moving towards an extreme version of Islam
Zeal and passion for Islam is evident in many new Muslims. Like sponges, they are eager to learn, absorb and implement. There seems to be a misconstrued silent rule that upon entering Islam, a complete rejection of everything that came before is required. With an ‘all or nothing’ mentality, she severs family ties as she cannot live her life surrounded by ‘kaafirs’. Clothes are put into bin bags and phone numbers are changed. Within a few days, the new believer changes from wearing jeans to completely covering from head to toe in black. The new Muslim believes she is moving in the correct direction as she receives impressed compliments from other sisters. Shortly down the line, those initial strict immediate changes begin to show its cracks as she wonders why she feels no connection, deep faith or tranquility in her salaah. She wonders why her heart feels dead and why she now craves to go back to the life that she once led.

Confused, depressed and with only a speck of emaan left in her heart, she wonders what to do. She cannot return to her family whom she cut ties with. In addition to the strained relationships she has with other sisters and the sisterhood, the marriage she is in which is full of constant arguments and depression – with all this, she makes an all or nothing choice again and leaves Islam altogether.

There are so many other issues that could be highlighted within this article. But the purpose of this article is not to depress the readers but to portray the other side of the New Muslim’s life which often goes unheard.

Ramadhan is a time where many reverts feel very alone. We know that the purpose of Ramadhan is not to socialise but rather it is to attain taqwa of Allah. However, we must try to view Ramadhan from the perspective of a new believer. Coming from a very non-Muslim sociable lifestyle, there are very few chances to really socialise. Ramadhan is seen by many reverts as a time to be with others, to share, eat and grow together. When this is not present, stark truths are deeply felt and the new Muslim begins to realise them; the family they lost upon entering Islam, their lack of Muslim friends and as a result, the huge social void in their lives begins to emerge.
Fasting those first few times without much needed encouragement to make it until iftar is a huge mountain to climb and so many new Muslims give up and break their fasts intentionally. This results in them living the rest of Ramadhan truly believing that they will never be forgiven, that Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) hates them and that they are destined for the hellfire.
Observing large extended families coming together, enjoying iftar, attending taraweeh prayer together and preparing for the equivalent of Christmas, Eid Al Fitr, is quite a depressing time as they realise yet again that they are all alone.

Eid is the most dreaded time of the year. Since they are no longer attending family functions such as weddings, birthday parties, and religious festivities, they hope that Eid would be a joyous occasion to share with others. However, some deliberately choose not to leave their homes on Eid, unable to witness everyone else’s happiness at the Eid salaah knowing that they will be returning home alone.

How can brothers and sisters make a difference this Ramadhan and Eid? More importantly, how can brothers and sisters support reverts throughout the whole year so that the rate of apostasy is widely reduced? Here are some tips that we hope every reader will try to implement with at least one revert whom they know:

• Invite a revert around for iftar. Call them and ask after them. Do not assume that they are fine or even fasting. It doesn’t matter how long they have been Muslim. Really show that you care about them.
• Give a gift to a revert this Eid. It will build the love between you both and can have a lasting effect in their perception of Muslims at a time when they might be going through a difficult time.
• Share a part of your Eid day with a revert; even if it is just for one hour. Really go out of your way to make it a special time for them.
• Besides Ramadhan and Eid, one of the most important ways you can help a revert is to help them build a very solid foundation in their deen. Bring them closer to Allah and help them develop a strong relationship with their Creator. This step is probably the most crucial as it marks the difference in how they deal with the various tests that will come their way.
• Do not look at a revert in terms of how long they have been Muslim. Remember that they spent twenty, thirty or even forty years with certain thoughts, and practices that were completely alien to Islam. The psychological transition into a completely different way of life can take years.
• Dedicate yourself to really helping at least one revert Muslim for life – help them learn how to pray, share good and difficult times together, attend lectures together – seek knowledge together. Commit yourself to helping them for life.

[greenhill]

I phoned my local masjid and they laughed at me after I told them how long I was Muslim and couldn’t pray.

(original quote from Mandy)

My jaw noticeably slackened when I read this. I am ashamed imsad I am sorry to Mandy..

To add another twist to it all, sufferings in life are those 'double/triple/quadruple' moments in a video game, if you persevere it in the name of Allah swt. People who breeze through life collect not as much as those who really have it tested. Just have faith, put in your bit (because of Allah swt) whether for the world or the hereafter, and accept whatever the result and carry on.

What I mean to say really is that sufferings and tough tests like what we read here have the potential of giving the best returns in your 'investment' (faith) for the hereafter.

Just have faith.

Peace

[Signor]

The Struggles of Muslim Converts

There are many Muslim converts in the West who leave Islam on a daily basis for various reasons. Sometimes it is the lack of education, while other times it is the nostalgia for their pre-Islamic lifestyle and friends. But there are times that a legitimate doubt about the validity of Islam itself enters the heart, which drives converts to leave their adopted faith. The sense of confusion they thought they would finally have resolved through becoming a Muslim persists and the answers they thought they would find turn out to have been a mirage. The end result is that not only do they remain confused, but also now they have adopted a faith that seems to be changing their identity into something alien to them. They are now confused converts with identity crises.

The news of a popular figure in the Muslim community that they have left Islam creates a shock wave. Several statements like:
“Are you sure?”
“Are you serious?”
“But why?”
“But they traveled to Medina and Mecca”
“It must be some joker using their name and lying”
“How can they when they are surrounded by all these scholars?”
are made in an effort to come to terms with the personal existential crisis each Muslim feels as they find out that someone they looked up to had left Islam. It is as if this figure’s leave Islam makes Islam somehow less true. What seems to be missed is the utter humanity of these popular figures, and the fact that they go through existential crises of their own, which they have to deal with in some way. Their popularity does not grant them any special quality of self-assurance or certainty about what they are doing. If anything, their popularity might be a catalyst for their self-doubt and confusion.

Many converts have a similar story to tell with respect to their personal journey to Islam. The external material events that unfolded during their respective journeys may be different. But the personal struggles and battles with the questions about existence and why they are here and not somewhere else, where it is all going, what does it all mean, and what is the purpose of life are all very similar. They might all come from different backgrounds, but they are all asking universal questions that are central to our humanity.

In the midst of these struggles, Islam appears to be the Way, the Truth, and the Light. It is the one religion that seems to have all the answers to their questions. Their confusion is dissipating bit by bit, until the final point of arriving at a conviction that this religion could not have come from anyone but the Creator of this universe, and without it life is very confusing. That is the point they finally decide to make the commitment and convert to Islam. At the beginning it is the most peace they have ever felt. They finally feel settled, and they are no longer confused – for now.
Soon enough, as the initial period as a new convert loses its blissful effect, reality hits. That image that was presented in the mosque or the Muslim community center of peaceful coexistence, brotherhood and sisterhood solidarity, and heightened spiritual states was just that, an image. Because once they walked outside and started interacting with the Muslim community as a whole, reality hit. Islam is no longer the religion with the answers to clear confusion, as it once seemed from what they had read. On the ground, Islam seems to be the religion to create confusion. Unlike the image of unity and solidarity that was presented, in reality Islam seems to be the religion of division, separation, and segregation. Moreover, what were previously non-problematic activities such as listening to music, taking photographs, and greeting a member from the opposite sex all of a sudden became major hot topics for debate. This is of course not to mention who to trust as a source of knowledge in the religion and which Islam is the “true” Islam starting from whether it is Sunni or Shia, and then going down the various groups within each branch.

As the convert navigates their way through this maze in the middle of a forest, they realize that in trying to clear up their initial sense of confusion before becoming a Muslim, they have put themselves in a more confusing position. To add insult to injury, in addition to associating with a particular version of Islam, they have to become exclusivist and reject the others as misguidance leading to the Hell Fire. Even if they do not want exclusivity, they are forced into it by experiencing an “excommunication” judgement against them from those who do not agree with the Islam they follow. So now all of a sudden the same Muslim co-worker who they had no problem with before converting, becomes an enemy simply because they do not belong to the same branch, the same group, and even the same mosque as them.

This raises the question of the relevance of Islam to reality. Is Islam a utopian religion with a set of unrealistic and unreachable expectations? Are Muslim teachings not able to address the human condition? These are legitimate questions to be asked, because if it does not improve society, and in fact seems to make matters worse, Islam should be something studied as a theory but not attempted on the ground. At least for the convert, the pre-Islam confusion they were going through was much better than the one many go through after converting. On the one hand, they know through the theology and worship that they have finally reached the Truth. But on the other hand, as a religion in society, Islam seems to fail to fulfill its claimed role. Hence, some converts who leave Islam make statements like, “I’ve spiritually outgrown Islam”.

Islam is not a utopian religion. It is a religion that deals with the reality of the human condition. But it needs to be practiced before it can exert its effects. When a doctor gives a prescription, and the patient does not follow the instructions, the blame for lack of health improvement is placed on the patient, not the medication nor the doctor. Similarly, Islam is the prescription for spiritual and societal illnesses, and if Muslims do not apply its teachings both inside and outside their mosques, the blame is not to be placed on Islam. The problem is with us. Furthermore, just as prescription medications have contraindications that make it harmful to mix them with certain foods or medications, Islam also has its own contraindications, including ego, caprices, and sometimes our own cultural influences. When a convert says, “I’ve spiritually outgrown Islam”, they are making an inaccurate assessment of their state. Islam is much bigger than any individual to make the claim that they have outgrown it spiritually or otherwise. While it can be accepted that other factors might have been at play, such as the Muslim community itself that successfully manages to push converts out of Islam, statements such as these are indicative of an ego that has not been conquered. The search for spirituality outside of religious bounds is nothing but a search for increased activity in the temporal lobes of the human brain that gives the illusion of spirituality.

Unfortunately, Muslim converts are in the unfavorable position of having found the answer to clear their confusions that requires them to face the consequence of having to accept becoming part of a community, which is going through a major crisis of lack of traditional Islamic education. On the path to becoming a Muslim, converts have typically done enough research to place their Islamic education level above their born-Muslim counterparts. This in turn results in their intellectual isolation from the community they had joined, which in the West results in a dual negotiation they may not be equipped for; the negotiation of being Muslim in a non-Muslim environment, as well as the negotiation of practicing Islam among Muslims who, despite holding the highest degrees in secular fields, barely have the most basic handle on their own religion’s teachings.


Given the struggles that Muslim converts face, it becomes pertinent for them to be consciously aware of what they are getting themselves into. Islamic teachings are not unrealistic and not utopian, and the proof of that is attested to throughout history. When Muslims lived Islam and applied its teachings with knowledge as individuals, the Muslim community flourished as a whole. Despite the setbacks and struggles new Muslims might have had, the truth of Islam was not questioned in the way it seems to be currently, because of the certainty they had in their hearts. Certainty is now something that sadly seems to be tasted by converts for brief periods, but not truly experienced everlastingly.

May Allah preserve our faith in Him and give us an unshakeable certainty in our hearts that can withstand the intellectual and spiritual turbulence that many of us go through during these times, and return our ex-Muslim brothers and sisters to the Truth and educate our greater community as a whole so we do not become a cause for someone rejecting or leaving this beautiful religion that you brought to us through the most beloved and precious of your creation, our Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him.

Source

[Signor]

FRUSTRATIONS OF A MUSLIM CONVERT​

The "miracle" of the increasing number of converts is not only that people are finding the light of Islam in an age of such darkness but that they are coming to the faith despite the actions of some of its believers.

Introduction
I have been a Muslim for over two years now. Whilst I am deeply satisfied with Islam on an intellectual and theological level, much too often I have been far from happy in my experiences with fellow Muslims on a practical level. I have faced considerable difficulties in my attempts to develop as a Muslim. Although I have made the acquaintance of many Muslims through various mosques I have attended, this has been overwhelmingly only on a superficial level. I am close only to two Muslims in the city where I live. I met them coincidentally. One is a neighbor, the other a former colleague whom I now rarely see.

Lack of Induction
Although I have a good understanding of the basic theology of Islam and Islamic history, two years after my conversion I am to some extent still struggling with the practical daily basics. According to a hadith,"The search for knowledge is an obligation laid on every Muslim."(Ibn Majah, Baihaqi). A convert needs to search for more knowledge than a born Muslim who has had a lifetime of schooling in the faith. In my personal experience, it seems that established Muslims make at best only a token effort to assist new Muslims in fulfilling their religious obligations.

To my profound disappointment, as far as my Islamic education is concerned, I have been left to fend for myself. It would seem that no mosque I have visited has a systematic induction program for new converts. The mosques in my area are all dominated by south Asian immigrants, with a sprinkling of Africans on Fridays. They are not attuned to the needs of indigenous converts. In fairness, I seem to be the only white person (i.e. convert) at the mosques I attend, so they may not perceive a need. But nevertheless, I live in a major city with a significant Muslim population and many mosques. Surely there must be somewhere where a new Muslim adult can receive training in the practical daily basics. Surely the established Muslim community should know where to refer the convert even if they are not suitably geared up themselves at the local mosque.

The Catholic Church has a thorough practical and theological induction program that is actually compulsory for people who wish to join it. The Anglican Church actively advertises its Alpha Course to attract and teach new converts. We Muslims seem to have nothing organized.

When it comes to lack of both meaningful social welcome and organized teaching of Islam for new Muslims, American convert, teacher and writer, Yahiha Emerick, hits the nail on the head in his article Ten Things Every Muslim Must Do. At number six on his list, he says:

If you see any new Muslims at your Masjid (mosque), then partially "adopt" them into your family. The convert experience is basically one of isolation and loneliness. You'd be surprised to know that most converts are outright ignored by the people in the Masjid. Beyond a few pleasantries and handshakes, they are usually never made to feel welcome or accepted. They are often cut off from their non-Muslim friends and relatives so they are doubly vulnerable. A new convert should be invited into various people's home for dinner a minimum of six times a month. Get together with others and make sure you all put the new convert on your guest list for any sort of gathering.

Internet - the good, the bad and the dangerous!​
Since my conversion to Islam I have had some horrible experiences with Muslims both on the Internet and face to face. I briefly mention these experiences here as a warning to other new Muslims. The Internet can be a wonderful place for learning about Islam. In fact, since my conversion, the Internet has been my primary source of materials with which to educate myself further about Islam. There are many excellent sites, but I would caution the new Muslim not to accept the information on all sites blindly, particularly if they have an arrogant, strident or unpleasant tone or stray from plain facts and concentrate on controversial opinion or on an overtly political agenda.

I would also urge new Muslims to avoid email forums or chat rooms about Islam absolutely. There are some nasty people lurking there - self-styled pseudo scholars preaching hellfire, doling out personal abuse and decrying sincere Muslims as non-believers. I was left utterly demoralized at one time and very, very angry on several occasions. I have now unsubscribed from all such forums. New Muslims should keep in mind the Hadith: "Verily, Allah is mild and is fond of mildness, and He gives to
the mild what He does not give to the harsh." (Muslim) If a website or e-group you come across is far removed from the above, then remove yourself from it!

There are also nice, well-meaning people who offer advice about matters of faith and practice without being in any way qualified to do so. If they get things wrong, they could unwittingly be leading the uninitiated astray and doing more harm than good. Be wary of accepting anything without a quotation from the Quran or authenticated hadith to back it up.

Having said that, if it is one of the nasty brigade who has come seemingly armed with references, firstly check the actual quotation in your Quran. Have they really only quoted what is there or have they embellished it with their own interpretation? It happens. And, if the quotation is genuine but sounds harsh to your ears, then use a commentary to become aware of the context in which the verse was revealed. Read widely. For every hard-line, unpleasant interpretation, there is usually a mild one from a serious writer or scholar.

Beware the Zealots!
Some real-life encounters can also be disconcerting. Whilst I have enjoyed an excellent rapport with some converts, the proverbial "zeal of the converted" can overflow in others. Some can turn into hard-line absolutists - a caricature of a Muslim. Also beware the political zealots. Recently while in London I had to endure a sermon at Jumma salat (Friday afternoon congregational prayers) held at a university in which the student acting as imam was very obviously pushing the agenda of a radical minority political grouping and spoke at length about whom it was our duty to kill!

Sadly far too many young Muslim men in England - the occasional convert and, particularly, the sons of Asian immigrants - get far too worked up about this or that political agenda and are in danger of overlooking the peaceful, spiritual core of Islam. As the writer Abdal-Hakim Murad puts it in his excellent essay British and Muslim, unsettled, discontented second generation Asian immigrant Muslims in Britain tend to locate their radicalism not primarily in a spiritual, but in social and political rejection of the oppressive order around them. Their unsettled and agitated mood is not always congenial to the recent convert, who may, despite the cultural distance, feel more comfortable with the first rather than the second generation of migrants, preferring their God-centered religion to what is often the troubled, identity-seeking Islam of the young.

Amen to that! These young radicals are prone to behave in the most obnoxious and nasty manner towards those other Muslims who do not agree with them. I would simply call the following words from the Quran and ahadith to their attention:

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious; for your Lord knows best who have strayed from His Path, and who are truly guided."
Quran 16:125

"Do you know what is better than charity and fasting and prayer? It is keeping peace and good relations between people, as quarrels and bad feelings destroy mankind."
(Muslims & Bukhari) Top

Must we proceed at the pace of the most prudish?
Whilst I have enjoyed many conversations about Islam in mixed male-female company (including with ladies who wear hijab), a small but vociferous minority of female born Muslims I have encountered have been very stand-offish and overly prudish. Despite the fact that the Quran teaches us that

"The believing men and women, are associates and helpers of each other." <Quran, Al-Taubah 9:71>

My own understanding is that what is improper is for one man and one woman to be alone together, but there should not be a problem about other mixing provided that proper Islamic behavior is maintained. I, a man, would never even have had the opportunity to discover Islam in the first instance were it not for friendships with several born Muslims (three of whom were women) prompting me to investigate the religion.

According to the prominent Sudanese Muslim scholar and leader, Dr. Hassan al-Turabi who is widely portrayed in the west as an Islamic fundamentalist, in his seminal 1973 work On the Position of Women in Islam and in Islamic Society'

"In the model society of Islam, Muslims used to assemble freely and frequently; they were mostly acquainted with each other, men and women; they conversed and interacted intensively. But all those activities, were undertaken in a spirit of innocence and in the context of a virtuous society...Islam tolerates that one may greet women or talk to them in decent and chaste language and with good intent. The Prophet used to do so."

"Muslim Name" and Attire?​
Another gripe I have is the ignorance of many born Muslims about what they believe to be the necessity for a convert to adopt a so-called Muslim name. When I took my Shahada, I was asked not whether I wished to choose a "Muslim name" but what name I wished to adopt. Not knowing any better at the time, I did reluctantly choose a new name, and used it briefly in Muslim circles. However, I did not change any of my official documents. Only later did I discover that there is, in principle, no requirement whatsoever to change one's name. The original converts to Islam at the time of Prophet Mohammed usually kept the Arabic name they always had. The only exceptions were people who had a name with unpleasant or pagan connotations. So-called "Muslim names" are, in the main, simply Arabic ones or traditional names from countries that were early adopters of Islam. There is no requirement for a new Muslim to adopt one of these.

While I respect (though do not necessarily agree with) the choice of those Muslim converts who have adopted a new name, I expect all Muslims to respect the right of other converts such as myself to retain their original name. I generally now use my "real" name, not the "Muslim name" that was initially thrust upon me. Sadly I have come under pressure from some ignorant born Muslims on this matter.

To be frank, I feel that adopting a "Muslim name", makes it easier for one's existing circle of family and friends to dismiss one's conversion to Islam as an act of eccentricity which they can brush off. By changing one's name and starting to wear, say, Pakistani clothing, one confirms in their minds the foreignness or alien nature of what is supposed to be universal Islam. I believe that these actions, or dare I say distractions, make it harder for most people from non-Muslim countries to identify with Islam, the welcoming and inclusive universal religion open to all, and see how it could be relevant to their own lives.

The spiritually motivated western convert to Islam, whose Islam is centered on God not agitation, has a golden opportunity to depoliticize the widespread negative western perception of Islam and to diminish the impression that Islam is for strange, backward, sometimes frightening foreigners - Arabs and Asians - but not for westerners. In my view, this opportunity is thrown away or at the very least is hobbled by self-inflicted damage when a western convert unnecessarily adopts a foreign name and clothing, thus only reinforcing the preconceived notions and prejudices that non-Muslim fellow westerners tend to hold about Islam.

Relationship with non-Muslim parents​
Again with regard to the issue of a "Muslim name" and similar matters, I think it is also important to bear in mind here the teaching of Islam with regard to one's duty to family, particularly one's parents even if they are themselves non-Muslims.

Your Lord had decreed that you worship none but Him, and that you are kind to parents whether one or both of them attain old age in your lifetime. Say not to them a word of contempt or repel them but address them in terms of honor and out of kindness lower to them the wing of humility and say: "My Lord, bestow on them your mercy, even as they cherished me in childhood".
(Quran 17:23-24)

Indeed there was an occasion when Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) commanded a believer to care for his non-Muslim parents rather than participate in Jihad (holy war).

Abdullah ibn Omar relates: "Once a person came to the Messenger of Allah and expressed his desire to participate in jihad in order to please Allah. The Holy Prophet asked him "Are your parents alive?" The man said "Yes. Both are alive". The Holy Prophet said 'Then go and serve them well".
(Bukhari and Muslim).

I felt that it was important that my parents who are both practicing Catholics should realize that I was not rejecting them, my upbringing or most of the things they held dear. It was simply that I had come to a new understanding of theology. Rejecting the name they had given me could really have been interpreted as being quite insulting to them, which in itself would be contrary to Islam. I am thinking here of the following ahadith:

"He, who wishes to enter paradise at the best gate, must please
his father and mother."
(Bukhari & Muslim)

In my case, I felt that abandoning for no good reason the very name given me by my loving parents would have been straining the ties of relationship, creating displeasure and certainly not indicative of showing kindness to or taking friendly care of my mother and father.

So-called "Islamic Causes"
When I, a westerner and a former practicing Christian, became a Muslim, I became just that - a Muslim, a believer in the religion of Islam, i.e. someone who believes in the oneness of God as opposed to the concept of Trinity and who accepts Mohammed (pbuh) as a prophet of God. I'm the same person with the same name, wearing the same western style of clothing (though now respecting the modest dress code of Islam) and eating the same style of food (though now making sure that my meat is halal). I have not rejected my country, its culture or tradition. I simply now hold different theological beliefs.

Final Thoughts​
Based on my personal experience, my advice either to new Muslims or anyone considering the possibility of accepting Islam would be simply to judge a religion not by its adherents, many of whom may fall far short of the ideal in a variety of ways (and I include myself in that!), but rather by the theology and teachings of the religion itself. To be honest, I remain in Islam very much in spite of and not because of my experiences with Muslims. Only a handful have been of any help to me and quite a few hard-line politicos and joyless, uptight puritans have been a real hindrance. However, despite my great disappointment at both the lack of organized support available to new Muslims and the widespread politically focused rather than God-centered Islam so prevalent today, plus my intense dislike of the nasty behavior and attitudes of some of the Muslims I have encountered in person and online, I have most definitely found in the religion of Islam an intellectual and theological satisfaction that I never knew in Christianity. And at the end of the day, one's beliefs about God are what truly matters.

Source

Related Thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/new-musl...ing-islam.html

[Signor]

Seven out of every ten converts leave Islam

by Imam Luqman Ahmad

We are constantly being told that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States. We are also being told that the Muslim population is anywhere from 2 million, to six million and that a third of them are converts. That would put the number of converts from around 700,000 to 2,000,000. However, I’m not sure if those numbers are accurate because many converts are leaving Islam, and or never even begin to practice Islam in any appreciable way other than take their shahaadah (declaration of conversion), and you don’t see anywhere near those numbers reflected in the nation’s masaajid.

Nor do you see too much evidence that people who became Muslim say, 20 years ago have stayed in the religion, raised their children upon it and started a second generation, or even third generation. The overall estimates of the Muslim population may be accurate, but the stated percentage of converts does not seem reflected on the ground. In almost every major city in America except for maybe Philadelphia and to a certain extent, Atlanta, you don’t see too many large communities of converts to Islam. You see a lot of young people who are recent converts and that’s great but where are the thousands upon thousands of Muslims who converted ten years ago? Twenty years ago? Thirty years ago? Where are their children, their grandchildren?

We need to re-evaluate the statistics that are being fed to us, because it has lolled many of us into a false sense of accomplishment to the point where we brag about how well Islam is doing amongst converts in America while in reality, it seems converts, by and large, are not faring that well and that the largest concentrations of Muslim men in America are those in our nation’s prisons. When I used to volunteer at Folsom prison, there would be hundreds of male converts in attendance, and I have never seen hundreds of male converts at any Masjid anywhere in California.

Converting to Islam is one of the most significant life changing events that will ever happen during your time on this earth. To a true Muslim, faith is central to his or her entire being. How they understand and practice Islam will impact virtually every area of life; family, children, profession, character, marriage, and most importantly, the afterlife. So whatever you do, if you are a convert to Islam, do not ever take your Islam for granted. You have been given a gift that is more valuable than you may realize. You owe it to yourself as a Muslim to follow the guidance of the religion you have accepted as your way of life, as do we all. You also owe it to yourself to take the necessary steps in order to preserve your faith, spread it to your family, and pass it down to your children.

Statistically, there is a great chance that after a year or two, you will not be practicing Islam at all. Chances are that the euphoria that accompanied your conversion to Islam will be gone. Chances are that you won’t be attending a Masjid on a regular basis, and may not even have learned your prayers or how to purify yourself. Chances are that you will not be grounded anywhere in particular, not part of any Muslim community, and just floating from here to there, picking up bits and pieces of information when you can. All the while not finding specific the specific answers to your life’s problems that you need.

Of course this is not the case for every convert to Islam, and it may not be the case for you. However, based upon recent history, the chances are high that if you are a Muslim convert, and have been Muslim for less than 5 years, you will not be a practicing Muslims 5 years from now. There are many Muslims who convert to Islam, and gradually understand and practice the faith, get married, perhaps, have children and produce healthy Muslim families that continue into the next generation. However, that’s not the way it is for the majority of converts during these times we live in today. Most Muslim converts in America these days are a one shot deal. They convert to Islam but it doesn’t really spread to the next generation. The average convert today is simply subject to too many fluctuations, and quirky influences in his or her faith and ideology in the name of Islam to keep up.

If you are one of them, it is likely that even though you still believe in Allah, and His Prophet (SAWS), you still have not been able to connect the dots. You are still searching for what is the best Islam; one day something is haram, the next day it isn’t. Maybe you’ve put your heart into one or the other popular brands of Islam and then realized that it didn’t give you all the relevant answers you needed for your life as a Muslim convert, born and raised and living in America. Perhaps you’ve tried your hand at salafiyyism, and really believed the fatwa from 10,000 miles away that told you that you must be saddened by the happiness of any non Muslim, or that told you that you have to spend an inordinate amount of time debating with other Muslims, or that told you that you can’t wish your mother happy birthday or buy her an anniversary gift . Or maybe you tried Sufism and found that even though you sat around doing thousands of thikrs, paid hundreds of dollars to attend seminars of a visiting shaykh, or traveled hundreds of miles to kiss somebody’s hand, has not removed your inner demons. Or maybe you’ve simply given up and just kinda hold on to the basis of faith while having no real spiritual feeling or propulsion in your life. If you’ve been particularly unfortunate, you jumped on the bandwagon of Muslims who spend so much time arguing with each other, and trying to uncover faults in one another that they have lost track of their own spiritual health. If any of this is the case with you. then know that you are not alone. These are the things that happen to the majority of Muslim converts in America. That’s the bad news.

The good news is that the dots can be connected and there are answers to morally dysfunctional Islam, and if you can hang on for about 5 to 7 years, you’ll have realized that the simple Islam of the Prophet (SAWS) was all you needed in the first place. If you’re still new to the deen and don’t have the time to do the merry go-round approach, it should please you to know that these faith fatalities can be avoided if you are aware of the obstacles before you. You don’t have to make things up on your own as you go along, you don’t have to re-invent the wheel, and you don’t have to grope around in the dark, hoping you’ll figure it out in sha Allah. None of the above methods work, and all three contribute to moral dysfunction which contradicts the whole purpose of your accepting Islam in the first place. Islam works wonders for the soul when practiced correctly. When it is not, the results can be devastating. Islam is a path, not a destination. Don’t assume that you can travel the path of Islam, without any direction, and do not ever assume that you can lead yourself. Once you do that, the devil takes the reins. Even Dorothy, had to follow the yellow brick road in order to reach the wizard of Oz.

Islam has been in America for more than 400 years and people have been converting to Islam in relatively large numbers since the seventies. Unfortunately, many new converts to Islam are deprived, and sometimes deprive themselves the opportunity to benefit and learn from people who accepted Islam 10, 20, or 30 years ago, and are still practicing it. This is due partially by the absence, or scarcity of Muslim communities, which contributes to the generational disconnect between Muslims. Not only are new Muslims, not benefitting from seasoned Muslim converts, in many cases, largely because of foreign influence, newer Muslims show less and less respect for Muslims who have practiced Islam in this country for decades. It’s not uncommon to find a two year convert to Islam, condemning an Imam or Muslim who fasted thirty Ramadans! Muslim Americans are finding themselves dealing with issues that have long been settled by their predecessors.

In virtually every human discipline on earth, new members learn from the ones who immediately preceded them and benefit from their experiences. Scientists, educators, people in the military, law enforcement, doctors, lawyers, builders, scholars of Islam, artists, carpenters, and even athletes learn from the ones who immediately preceded them in their craft. Sadly, the same is not true for many converts to Islam. Many converts to Islam are making the exact same mistakes, attempting the same failed (un-Islamic) methods of deen, falling for the same cons, arguing about the same issues, running into the same brick walls, and repeating the same misdirected actions that some Muslims have been doing for nearly half a century or more. The difference now is that we are heading into the last days and things are deteriorating very rapidly. Subsequently, the condition of the convert is steadily worsening, and the amount of confusion is much higher. It’s time that we have honest discussions about our journey so that we can learn from our mistakes. In the age where our country has elected its first African American President, American muslim converts, most of whom are African American, are third class Muslims in their own country.

I have been a Muslim for half a century. My parents converted to orthodox Islam in the fifties. I’m certainly not the best Muslim, and make no claim to be the quintessential example of everything a Muslim is supposed to be. That job has already been covered by our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAWS). I have managed however, through the years, to pay close attention to what was and is going on in Muslim America. After teaching classes on Islam and lecturing to Muslims and non-Muslims for nearly three decades, serving as an Imam of a Muslim community for nearly fifteen years, administering the shahaadah to hundreds of American Muslims from all walks of life, speaking with thousands of Muslim converts, I’ve started to notice recurring patterns of how Muslim converts in America have fared. Most of them seem to not practice the religion, leave it all together, or hold on to the central theme of Islam (monotheism) and languish in bewilderment about the rest. Many just wait around to see what the next CAIR inspired protest is going to be. It is interesting to note that Muslim Americans endured discrimination, torture, name calling and abuse decades ago only to arrive in the 21st century and we can’t endure a cartoon, or a simple disparaging remark. A great scholar of Islam, imam al-Qurtubi once said: “knowledge is acquired through two things; nusoos (textual evidences from the Quran and the Sunna), and tajriba (trial and error). The goal here is to learn from our experiences, connect the dots, pinpoint specific problem areas of deen practice and provide solutions based upon the Kitaab and the Sunna. Islam is a system of faith that works, when you believe sincerely, employ correct measures of knowledge, and stay focused on the prize, which is eternal bliss and salvation.

Nevertheless, it still remains that nearly seven out of ten Muslim converts, end up either not practicing the religion or leaving it all together. The most common causes are information overload, coupled with too many different directions of instruction, and spheres of foreign influence, and a woeful lack of facility and resources amongst indigenous American Muslim communities (most of whom are struggling). The new Muslim is often given conflicting information about what they should do, which group they should join, who and what they should love and hate, and where they can and cannot go to worship. The average muslim convert spends about 5 to 7 years literally going around in circles with their religion, sometimes embroiled in research, or dispute with other Muslims about what is haram, about what is halal, or the meaning of this or that verses in the Quran or this or that prophetic tradition. Other times they are busy trying out different types of Islam, different labels, each one requiring that he or she re-adjust their faith foundation, while repudiating the other group. One day a Salafi, the next day a Soofi, the next day a Maaliki, the next day a Habashi, the next day a Tablighi, and so on.

Multiple intra-faith changes in fundamental spiritual foundation can take its toll on any Muslim. For the children of converts, it can be devastating. Children are born in the state of fitra (natural godly disposition). No one embodies the pure fitra in his being, character and path, more than Rasoolillah (SAWS). This is why Aisha (RA) the wife of the Prophet (SAWS), has said; “His (The Prophet (SAWS)) character was the Quran”. This is the truth. If you care to believe it, al-humdu lillah, otherwise, my response is; Allahumma salli alaa Muhammadin WA alaa aali Muhammad

All of the aforementioned sub groups of Muslim, and Islam have some benefit in them. Following a madhhab can give order and stability to practicing Islam, especially in areas of technicality such as inheritance, marriage and divorce and other matters. Salafiyyism has reinvigorated the spirit of learning, despite its drawbacks. Many Muslims have learned humility and simplicity by association with Jamaa’atul Tabligh, and Sufism has its benefits as well as it directs one to focus on his or herself. However, like the other aforementioned, it is not all-encompassing. In fact none of the secondary sub-groups of Islam can offer as much as Islam itself, as a total faith. Furthermore, no one, no Imam, no sheikh, no teacher, no Sufi path, no faqih, or amir can equal the guidance found in the unadulterated sunna of the Prophet (SAWS). The best Islam for American Muslims and all Muslims across the globe is the Islam of the Prophet (SAWS). Islam can exist without Salafiyyism, Sufism, the schools of thought, the Habashis, the Shehu, the Saabiqoon, the Wahhaabis, and the Qaadirees, but none of these groups or disciplines would exist, or could exist without Islam. Laa ilaaha illa Allah!

None of the sectarian versions of Islam are good enough for us here in America. We are a free, independent, and fairly educated people. A third grade level kiddy fatwa is not good enough for us. We don’t believe that language and a foreign accent is tantamount to being better than us (well, some of us do). However, the point is that one third of American Muslims are a convert community (at least that’s what they say but the numbers are questionable), and as converts, guidance to Islam was a personal decision of Allah. Converts by nature are more spiritually intuitive upon their conversion than the average Muslim. First of all, their sins are all forgiven on the spot so the convert is operating as a person without the stain of sin, at least in the beginning of their Islam. The only Islam that will suffice us in the long run is the Islam of the Prophet (SAWS) in its original form, without the added on names, the added on ideas, and the added on culture

The second most common cause of leaving the religion or not practicing it for the convert is the ill treatment, and indifference they receive from other Muslims. Many Muslims have complained of walking into a Masjid and receiving less welcome than they would if they walked into a local Wal-Mart. Some Masaajid in America do not even allow women to come in to pray! When Umar ibn al-Khattaab wanted to prevent his wife from entering the Masjid for prayer the Prophet responded by saying; “Do not prevent the bondmaids of Allah from entering the houses of Allah”. The divide between immigrant Muslims and indigenous American Muslim converts is wider than it has ever been in our domestic history. As institutions (including masaajid) that are run by, cater to, and controlled by immigrant Muslims and their communities are flourishing whereas institutions of means that pay attention to the needs of our nations converts to Islam are virtually non-existent.

Unfortunately, Islam in America is ruled by political Islam which is built upon the agenda of fear and reaction, not faith and pro-action. Political Islam does not offer the same nurturing environment that spiritual/moral Islam does. Much of Muslim America has become a colony of one or more Muslim groups or ideological platforms from abroad. Many of whom are embroiled in conflict, fratricide and power struggle. It is a harsh environment, as Americans are learning to cooperate with one another, and live side by side with one another without conflict and chaos, the Muslim world is still struggling with basic civility and respect for differences. Much of that has crept into the American Muslim reality so we too, have become harsh, unforgiving, extremely sensitive, and impatient with each other and so on. Converts usually expect a nurturing environment when they become Muslim and often find the contrary. It is the right of every Muslim to find safety amongst his or her brethren. “The Muslim is one from whom other Muslims are safe from his hand and his tongue” Without safety, there is no co-operation, or forward movement, except by force, and we as Americans are free, and force does not work for us in areas of faith, thus, many of us are stuck.
The third major cause of people leaving and not practicing the faith is arguing back and forth over every petty issue they can find. A decent teacher will also instruct his students not to argue with people about deen because any Muslim leader should know the damage that it causes; ”And obey Allah and His Messenger. and fall into no disputes, lest ye lose heart and your power depart; and be patient and persevering: For Allah is with those who patiently persevere” 8:46 It was reported about the Prophet (SAWS) that he said; and if your are comfortable enough in your faith to fight and argue about it, you would be practicing it and not trying to beat it over someone else’s head. History has shown that teachers, who are more familiar with the student, and his or her condition and environment, are more suited to teach the religion to American Muslim converts. Unfortunately many indigenous American Muslim converts are still under the delusion that in order for information to be correct, it has to have an accent, thus, the few American teachers that we have, as a whole get a lot of push back from indigenous American Muslims.

Lots of Muslims bicker back and forth on the internet; most of them bicker on behalf of their group. African Americans tend to bicker on behalf of themselves since most of us are floaters without an Imam, a community, a shaykh, or a communal foundation. Many of them bicker back and forth on behalf of one of the dozen or so foreign spheres of religious, sectarian influence that has blanketed our nation’s converts to Islam. Of all the peoples in the world who share the same language, same socio-economic and demographic conditions, same race, religion, and national identity, African American Muslims are arguably the most fractionalized of them all. That’s why we have nothing, and our communities whatever is left are crumbling before our eyes like huts made of sand.
The fourth major cause of people leaving Islam is the lack of congregation , and Muslim congregations that cater to, or are at least welcoming to American Muslim converts. The Prophet ﷺ said: “I enjoin you to be in congregation for verily the wolf devours the stray sheep”. It is imperative to have to have congregations and communities of Muslims who share the same localities, the same problems, the same conditions and the same or similar backgrounds. It will be nearly impossible for African American Muslims converts to be duly served without institutions that cater to their needs. It is difficult and nearly impossible to establish viable institutions that serve their interests without critical mass, and you can never have critical mass without having congregations, and I’m not talking about Facebook congregations either. I mean real congregations with leadership, people who are focused, and willing to put in the work required to rescue a civilization. It is only through congregation that we can make use of our own elders, scholars, experienced Muslims who were also converts, and seasoned imams, and leaders who know us, care about us, and are accessible to us. Granted, there may not be many in these categories, but they are there, and they are underutilized.

The fifth cause, which I alluded to earlier in this article, and which may, or may not contribute to the hemorrhaging of the convert community, is that masaajid and communities where converts usually attend in high numbers tend to be small, poor facilities, with scant resources or funding. Converts communities are almost exclusively in the inner cities, and in the poorer neighborhoods of America. Of the billions of dollars that have been raised and spent on building and upgrading masaajid in the United States, hardly any of it was spent on indigenous American Muslim communities. It would be illogical to believe that this reality does not negatively impact converts, and convert communities in some way. These problems that I mention in this post will not go away by themselves; and what I posted here is just the tip of the iceberg. May Allah help us…..

Source

[czgibson]

Greetings,

We are used to hearing that Islam is the fastest growing religion, so it is surprising to read these stories of lots of converts leaving the religion. Presumably that indicates that if Islam is indeed the fastest growing religion, that must be due to factors other than the number of converts, since most of them are apparently leaving the religion soon after.

Statistics on religious adherence are notoriously difficult to verify and it is hard to know whether they can be trusted or not. Does anybody know of any good sources for statistics on Islamic believers?

Peace

[al-Muwahid]

How do scholars know for sure which parts are meant to be read literal and which ones are to be taken metaphorical?

We know which parts are literal and which are not by looking back to the Hadith and the teachings of the companions of the Prophet (SAWS) and seeing what their understanding was.

[ardianto]

Greetings,

We are used to hearing that Islam is the fastest growing religion, so it is surprising to read these stories of lots of converts leaving the religion. Presumably that indicates that if Islam is indeed the fastest growing religion, that must be due to factors other than the number of converts, since most of them are apparently leaving the religion soon after.

Statistics on religious adherence are notoriously difficult to verify and it is hard to know whether they can be trusted or not. Does anybody know of any good sources for statistics on Islamic believers?

Peace

Greeting czgibson.

There are people who believe in God but still confused about the right path to believe in God. So they try to seek this right path. In this journey they can walk on a pathway, but then when they feel this pathway is not the right path, they decide to leave it and move to another pathway. This is why there are people who embrace one religion but then leave it and move to another religion, or even turn into Atheism.

Then, is Islam the fastest growing religion?. Due to high birth rate among Muslims, .... yes.

[umairlooms]

I am a new revert to Islam, and I can see how someone new to the faith could be quickly turned away. All of the born-Muslims that I know refuse to admit this, but they often interpret the Qur'an when it is convenient, and take the Words literally when it is convenient. I am already having frustrations with this, and I haven't even been in the fold for a full month. It is my understanding that I am supposed to take the Qur'an as the literal word of Allah (swt). So, I'll ask a Muslim friend: Why are so many things specific to the Arab world, when the faith is supposed to be for everyone? For example, what is with the references to camels and oases? These friends will inevitably answer: Well, you're taking it too literally. Hmmm. And I ask them: Where does it say that I cannot get to know a woman in a respectable way, in hopes of finding a suitable wife? Where does it say that I am not capable of having a modest interaction with a woman that does not revolve around sex and misguided emotions? They say: Well, it doesn't explicitly say that, but we have to infer that that is the intended meaning. Ok.....which is it? Are we interpreting things to align them with a certain ancient culture, or are we reading things literally? This is usually the point where they exit the conversation and tell me that I ask to many questions.

The main thing that drew me to Islam in the first place was the idea that the faith hasn't been corrupted by man. Already, I am having my doubts. I am beginning to feel that since my Shahada I have been thinking and behaving out of fear alone, even though I was expecting to feel like a better person, capable of more goodness and love than before. I feel like this pushes me away from Allah (swt). I feel like I'm being subjected to the will of men.

I was a born muslim and even I get frustrated with this.
You are not alone. I too have been utterly confused and frustarted by the way, the muslim ummah in general has nickpicked what to take literally and not to take literally, as well as what command is to be context specific and what is to be general.

This just makes me dig deeper and I realize that it is inevitable, (as we are humans) that we will interpret things differently.

[ray]

I haven't read this whole thread but I will offer my opinion. It's going to sound bitter and people are going to hate it. I will ask the mods to please remove any ad hominem responses to my post that make it about me and take character shots because of some dumb thing like how I phrased something instead of actually addressing the post. I'm tired of internet fights. I have been previously attacked on this forum because of semantics and judgemental people which is why I mentioned it.

Here it goes. Although, these people leaving Islam are extremely foolish, one reason for these Muslims to be leaving Islam is strangely enough, other Muslims. Yes, not all Muslims are alike, and there are good and bad Apples everywhere. However, that's too simple for me. A lot of Muslims generally fail to understand that other Muslims are on different locations under the umbrella of Islam. A Muslim who is often very close to the centre of the umbrella will demolish and annihilate a Muslim who's closer to the edge and is only asking for advice. Rather than maintaining his objectivity, he will get jealous from some dumb thing like he may have a gf or he may party and instead of objectively helping him, he will shame him, insult him, and often even label him a kaffir and tell him to enjoy the heat of hell fire for eternity. This is something I've noticed throughout my life. Not just in my experiences, but in the experiences of my friends as well. Although some may find it surprising, I've found that if a child went for advice to those who are among the most qualified and most practising - aka an Imam he was more likely to get objective, honest, critical, yet non-judgemental advice even though the Imam is likely to be more practising than people who would have been very rude and insulting to him. That's another problem. Often these people are breaking some huge fundamentals of Islam themselves. It could be something as simple as not treating their wives with respect, or abusing their children, or a very common one is always being angry, etc. Not letting Allah be the only judge is bad enough, but the double standards and slander makes it even worse. A lot of times, and I know they shouldn't, people take this to heart and forget the importance of studying and understanding Islam, not Muslims. They forget the "Islam is perfect, Muslims aren't" motto. I'm not saying that's right but it does happen. This I believe is one reason and answer to the question.

It's not that a lot of us are meant to be bad people. I believe it's the societal upbringing a lot of us have that causes these issues. If we take a look around the world and look at countries populated by Muslims, there will be a lot of similarities in those countries. I believe this is where the problems stem from. Low quality of life, low life-expectancy, low health standards, low levels of education, low level of teaching human fundamentals like teamwork, humility and modesty, low amount of sport participation, no concept of "extracurricular activities" or "volunteering" requirements drilled by schools, etc. Low amount of educational requirements leads to high levels of stupidity. This is why we have so many people who do things that are not permitted in Islam and think it's ok and in fact encouraged. It's one thing to do something and shutup about it and acknowledge it's wrong. It's another to go celebrating like you're an awesome person. For me personally I was abused so much as a child (up to 3 times a day) that I never wore a half sleeve shirt or shorts to school. Sometimes my dad would whip me in public, and his friends encouraged him and tell him how "he would be rewarded for his hard work". This is why to this day I'm always dressed in sweaters even in the summer. It's surprising because the prophet (PBUH) never hit his children and it's actually forbidden in Islam yet you can talk to millions of Muslims and they will encourage it. That's sort of what I mean. It's actually pathetic how many will not only think it's not forbidden, but in fact encourage it as if it's a good deed. This is just one example, mind you. The government doesn't do enough of a job to enforce education standards on kids. Yes even kids who have a good enough access to resources and money are affected by this because of the society they are growing up in. Moving on, low quality of life in essence leads to low health which could mean a lack of PROPER nutrition, lack of physical activity, etc. I believe in some way this would naturally lead to more vitriol and anger inside a person. The biggest ones missing from our cultures and our schools is teaching humility, modesty, sport participation, requirement for extra curricular activities and volunteering. Believe it or not these ALL tie together and generally serve the same message. If we look at a boy in our culture, is he really challenged in any true social way? He's taught to be a very selfish person if we truly look at it. Education, education, education, education, care about yourself, care about yourself, care about yourself, care about family, care about family, care about family. This is it. There is not much else this boy is challenged to do by his parents. Caring about yourself and about your family to SOME extent even comes naturally. So what's left? Education, education, education. The purpose of education is to learn and internalize yet looking at his upbringing he fails to do so.

Examples of this can be seen in various fields of life, sports is a very simple one. I will elaborate on the sports thing in a bit. If we look at how a child is raised in a lot of Muslim countries, his values and growth are never really challenged in ways they should be. In a lot of if not all "first world countries" these values I talk about are drilled by the system into the heads of kids. Students are very much encouraged to participate in sports, in high schools they are simply not allowed to graduate without completing a certain number of volunteer hours. If a child has coasted to university on his marks alone, then employers regularly come to campus and enforce the value of extra curriculars and how marks aren't as important, etc. The amount you learn from participating in a team sport is unmatched by almost everything. Yet even if a child takes part in a team sport we always tell him to be the one holding the bat, or the one scoring the goal, and how goalkeeping is a toxic position etc. No concept of backchecking, taking one for the team, these cliches don't exist, just goals. Even assists don't matter. By forcing a child since birth to expand his social circles, participate in team sports, FORCE the guy to volunteer, join extra curricular clubs for good causes, a lot of basic human values are being instilled in him that destroy the ego and teach the important aspects of life. My point is until unless our societies change in a huge way, this will always be a problem and we will have too many vitriol filled ego-driven people. Just talk to a lot of our parents. A lot of it will be "son when I was a kid I had to walk 100 miles to school, son when I was a kid, I washed my own clothes, son when I was a kid I got 90s, son when I was a kid I could have become president but because of my very humble nature I had to turn it down" etc.

If you still think I'm just spitting crap, I encourage you to follow the NHL for a season, while also watching the Australian Cricket team. Then for a year watch South Asian cricketers. Observe body language, what they say in interviews, how fans think of the sport etc.

In Canada, you'd think every kid who plays Hockey is a defenseman. Parents practically scream at their child for not going back to the defensive zone just once even if he scores 5 goals and his team wins 5-0. They won't care. It doesn't matter, why were you selfish so much?? Why did you put your goalie in that situation? Repeatedly in hockey interviews they hear terms "take one for the team, take one for the team" they hear a player always getting frustrated when forced to talk about his own accomplishments. He could have been the best player and he'd say "the team played well, I got pretty lucky and am blessed to be on such a good team". Watch Australian cricket players. They're douchebags on the field, but in interviews they are very humble about themselves. Mitch Starc after dominating the world cup was asked if he deserves a test call up and his answer was "I don't know about that, first I'd like to ESTABLISH myself in ODIs". Are you kidding me you idiot? You just dominated the entire world and have been doing so for a while. You're arguably the best ODI bowler playing today. Yet you say THAT as an answer?? Watch hockey interviews, they're filled with stupid cliches about team work and humbleness, so much that they are often mocked for how boring they are. You know what though? these messages get drilled inside a kid's head. Shane Watson for example, just retired for the sake of his country. He got dropped from test matches and instead of taking it personally he realized it's for his countries best interests and said he can now focus on the other parts of the game. Meanwhile over in Pakistan you got morons like Younis Khan who believe they deserve to be part of an ODI squad and say dumb things like "Allah will give me justice" What justice? and go to the public and openly talk bad about their team and how they were wronged by the system. You will never see them take responsibility. Ever. It will always be about so and so and so, it's not my fault, I got unlucky etc. NEVER will they take responsibility. If they made those same statements as hockey players in Canada they would die from all the negative attention they would get, but with us? It's completely normal now. Sports are just one example of it. My point is we need a systematic overhaul for things to change. Every bunch of people has its goods and bads but you should be willing to learn good and bad from wherever you can in order to improve. Just my $0.04 :D

[Ahmed2014]

I am a new revert to Islam, and I can see how someone new to the faith could be quickly turned away. All of the born-Muslims that I know refuse to admit this, but they often interpret the Qur'an when it is convenient, and take the Words literally when it is convenient. I am already having frustrations with this, and I haven't even been in the fold for a full month. It is my understanding that I am supposed to take the Qur'an as the literal word of Allah (swt). So, I'll ask a Muslim friend: Why are so many things specific to the Arab world, when the faith is supposed to be for everyone? For example, what is with the references to camels and oases? These friends will inevitably answer: Well, you're taking it too literally. Hmmm. And I ask them: Where does it say that I cannot get to know a woman in a respectable way, in hopes of finding a suitable wife? Where does it say that I am not capable of having a modest interaction with a woman that does not revolve around sex and misguided emotions? They say: Well, it doesn't explicitly say that, but we have to infer that that is the intended meaning. Ok.....which is it? Are we interpreting things to align them with a certain ancient culture, or are we reading things literally? This is usually the point where they exit the conversation and tell me that I ask to many questions.

The main thing that drew me to Islam in the first place was the idea that the faith hasn't been corrupted by man. Already, I am having my doubts. I am beginning to feel that since my Shahada I have been thinking and behaving out of fear alone, even though I was expecting to feel like a better person, capable of more goodness and love than before. I feel like this pushes me away from Allah (swt). I feel like I'm being subjected to the will of men.

I've been muslim since december 2003

Do not be disheartened by Muslims, however they are. To this day Muslims disappoint me, but it has nothing to do with Islam rather with human beings being foolish.

In fact what led me to Islam as well was how Islam is not corrupted, the qur'an and the seerah. It still holds true to me in this way. But every day until now I see the same pattern of cultural muslims doing whatever they want, mixing their cultural beliefs and values with islam or even putting them above islam, nationalism, racism, ethnocentricism, tribalism.... things you wouldn't expect. Then the various cult like sects and groups and everyone thinks they are upon the right.

Alhamdulillah enough for me is the quran and sunnah, so whenever I've been approached since the beginning by shias, qadiyanis, sufis, and every other offshoot in between I've stayed away.

Stick to the quran and sunnah and be concious of Allah, dont be ever disheartened even though its hard sometimes, by other muslims. It has nothing to do with the quran or with islam.

The prophet salalahu alaiyhi salam said that, a time will come when the muslims will follow the christians and jews in everything like they would follow them into a hole.

[Ahmed2014]

“Allah's Messenger (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: 'You will indeed follow the ways of those before you, hand span by hand span, and an arms length after another. Even if they enter into a lizard’s hole, you will follow them.’ We (the Sahaba) asked, ‘Is it the Jews and the Christians?’ He replied, ‘Who else!’” [Bukhari]

[JohnnyEnglish]

Why Are They Leaving Islam?

1. Education
2. Communication
3. Social media

Take for example North Korea. There you have a population of 25m (24.9m of whom are starving) who believe that Kim Jong-Un, their 'dear' leader, is supremely intelligent, the most able leader, a great leader as was his father and grandfather. 99.9% of that population believe that the Kim dynasty have delivered to them a good life which would have been better if he had not had to fight the evil Americans (sounding familiar). If that population was open to communication from the world, open to education to what is the truth outside of their enclosed world they would reject him in a heart beat.

Boko Haram, Taliban, Isis and a large portion of the Muslims world want to isolate Muslims from education and objective thought and that has been possible for hundreds of years but in the next few decades, because of global communication education will eventually come to all corners of the world and with education comes objective thought rather than denial and blind obedience.

btw did you know that Kim Jung-Un got 3 holes in one on the very first occasion he played a round of golf? Do you believe that? No! Well 24.9m North Koreans believe it!

[JohnnyEnglish]

And, if you don't believe me - try starting a thread examining the question 'Islam and the Quran' putting under the microscope of critical objective analysis and it will be deleted within hours. (as will this post)

[Ahmed2014]

Uhm what? "under the microscope". No more like if you're insulting us it will get deleted. If you're spewing misleading non-sense it will be deleted. If you have legitimate questions you will get them answered.

For all your enthusiastic leaving islam, there are many more who are accepting islam. Atheists seem to rejoice at people leaving islam. Well despite all the animosity and great effort of atheists and islamophobes spreading lies and hatred against Islam more and more people are embracing islam and that number will continue to rise Alhamdulillah.

I've been muslim december 2003. It's sad that you are not.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

btw did you know that Kim Jung-Un got 3 holes in one on the very first occasion he played a round of golf? Do you believe that? No! Well 24.9m North Koreans believe it!

I've heard different versions of this story, even including an eighteen holes-in-one spectacular! It is normally told about Kim Jong-Il, though. This article says the original story was five, and then it somehow got inflated to eleven.

In any case, it's clear that Kim Jong-Il is the greatest golfer who has ever lived!

Peace

[Walter]

Dear All:

Following rules helps to train an individual in behavior deemed acceptable by the community. There may be little joy in being trained to follow rules that go against one's natural tendencies. However, with practice, they become habitual and eventually accepted as normal.

People can get discouraged to the point of giving-up if they do not see a purpose for their actions. According to the Qur'an, the purpose of following the teachings of the Qur'an is to cultivate a personal relationship with God.

"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend." (4:125)

Best regards.

ps: Hi Glo. I am happy to see that you are still here.

"

[greenhill]

Although I have posted some comments on this, after going through this again (sort of) and if I were going to be brutal about it, I'd say...

Our test is the illusion of the world we see and live in or the reality of the hereafter we are going to.

We believe too much in the illusion of the world we see.

We reason God's laws as archaic and not relevant for the times. So, we can live it up.

Living it up is the dream, God's laws offer no fun. It is hard work.

It's easier to go astray due to the pull of the world.

At Takathur (102:1,2 & 8)
The mutual rivalry for piling up of worldly things diverts you
Until you visit the graves...
On that day you shall be asked about the delights.

Warning given. Still we don't pay heed.

:peace: