Salat Etiquette at Masjid

[faithandpeace]

Assalamu alaikum.

I wanted to make sure I'm not doing anything inappropriate during salat at masjid as a lot of people do different things so I don't know whether that is fine or whether some things are correct and others are not.

The sisters section has parts of it shielded by a curtain and then parts of it open completely with just a foot-high barrier off the ground. There are also pillars, mini-walls, etc. as part of the building architecture. So there is a diversity of situations that occur during salat. Some of the sisters will form rows towards the front of the sisters section where they can see the brothers and the brothers can see them (only if they turn around which they should not be doing but brothers who come late for salah could easily see the sisters while walking in). Then some sisters will pray behind these mini-walls, pillars, area shielded by curtain hidden as much as possible to avoid the brothers seeing them. Then you have sisters who wear niqab and pray with niqab where the brothers could see them or if possible they will pray where the brothers cannot see them and lift the niqab in that case. Then there is an auxilliary room where sisters pray if they want to and if it is available at the time.

So I'm not sure what I am supposed to do or if it matters. I like being shoulder-to-shoulder with the sisters in the rows but I also like the privacy of the brothers not being able to see so I have prayed hidden with very small groups of sisters or alone while others form the rows up front. One time during zuhr prayer there was only me and one other sister. The other sister hid behind the curtain and wall to remove niqab where brothers could not see her pray. She placed lots of bags and belongings around her so when the prayer started I formed my own separate row in a different area of the sisters section. I didn't know if that was rude or proper as it seemed like she wanted space and privacy.

There are debates going on about the veil (and lack theirof) between the sisters and brothers sections of the masjid. While I'm still a new Muslimah and may have somewhat of an excuse for mistakes I do wish to make sure what I am doing is halal and exemplary of proper Islamic manners.

Jazakallah khair for any help! :)

[YusufNoor]

wa Alaykum as Salaam & Eid Mubarak,

SubhanAllah! sounds more like mishegas than Salaah.

the Prophet, pbuh, and the Companions prayed in 1 room, brothers in the front, sisters in the back. everything else, and i mean everything else, is an adaptation of man.

these things puzzle me, but i get puzzled easily. :hmm:

ask your Imam what is considered proper for your Masjid, then do that. you will be doing what is considered "proper" in that Masjid. :D

you go to the Masjid to pray together. women are not required to attend the Masjid. if you want privacy, you are free to pray at home. (totally understanding that you might be comfortable praying with/behind someone until you learn how to pray in Arabic)

just to make things easier on yourself, just try to learn Islam and not somebody elses' "Lam".

have you tried talking to any of the sisters there? you could ask someone to be a mentor for you. at least try making friends. after all, we all have the same goal, to please Allah and get to Jannah!

May Allah reward you and may He make it easy on you.

Ma Salaama

[faithandpeace]

Jazakallah khair for your thoughts.

I have met quite a few of the sisters now all of whom have been wonderful to me. It seems like what it is is that people have their own customs and preferences. I prefer to pray together with the other sisters when possible as it helps me learn Salat and it is more beneficial to pray with others. Perhaps asking the Imam then would be the best route. I still am not 100% sure that I'm even doing Salat correctly as every website I have gone to online seems to have a different variation of it (movements, sayings, etc.). My goal is to avoid confusion and simply do what Islam requires of me without anybody's cultural or personal innovations added to it. The masjid has Salat guides but they have been out of them for awhile so I'll have to wait on that. At least I have the majority of it figured out though and have much of the Arabic already memorized although the proper pronunciation may need work. My goal is to more or less be up to speed by the six month mark after I reverted. I'm not expecting to be perfect but to more or less be fairly solid in my Salat by then.

[YusufNoor]

As Salaamu Alaykum,

with the exception of your hands (arms really) and feet, this is a great vid on how to pray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9kTd7q1zjE

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[Muhammad]

Assalaamu Alaykum sister,

The following links might help In sha Allah:

http://sms.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=99792
http://sms.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...ang=E&Id=81763

Perhaps you can raise the concern about the lack of a barrier in certain areas between the two sections, as it is causing difficulties for the sisters.

Salah is a very big subject and there are many rulings related to it. It will be an ongoing learning process. When studying prayer in greater detail, a useful breakdown is looking at the conditions, pillars, obligatory and sunnah aspects of the prayer. This will help you to understand what makes prayer valid or invalid, hence whether a particular variation will affect the validity of the prayer or not, and whether it is something acceptable. It would be good if you could go through this with a teacher.

May Allaah :swt: help you in praying correctly and increase you in guidance, Aameen.

[YusufNoor]

Perhaps you can raise the concern about the lack of a barrier in certain areas between the two sections, as it is causing difficulties for the sisters.

As Salaamu Alaykum,

Muhammad, Muhammad, Muhammad...:D

can you perhaps show me an ahadith where The Prophet, pbuh, required a barrier at the time of Salaah?

and Eid Mubarak!

Ma Salaama

[Muhammad]

:wasalamex

Eid Mubarak, akhee Yusuf :)

I'm not saying a barrier is a requirement... just a suggestion since it's causing difficulties on the sister's side. I wasn't really aware that there might be an argument against having a barrier. Here's what I found so far on the issue:

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=88708

Allaah :swt: knows best.

[~Zaria~]

As Salaamu Alaykum,

Muhammad, Muhammad, Muhammad...:D

can you perhaps show me an ahadith where The Prophet, pbuh, required a barrier at the time of Salaah?

and Eid Mubarak!

Ma Salaama

:wasalam:

The following reply (from a Hanafi perspective) may provide more insight into the reasons why in todays times, women may be discouraged from attending the masjid for daily salaah and at other times (e.g. Eid Salaah) or perhaps why a barrier would be a good idea in todays times:

http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/14924

The element of fitnah caused by women coming to the masjid, being inappropriately dressed is a very important one.

During the time of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam), there are narrations that indicate that women were completely veiled (in niqaab) when going to the masjid.
Today, this is very rarely seen.

During the taraweeh prayers this year, I have seen for myself, women who come to the masjid with layers of make-up, wearing very fitting abayas and stilleto/ extremely high-heeled shoes (one sister wore a knee-high, bright red boot which probably added > 10cm to her height. I had honestly not seen a shoe like this before...except on this odd night, at the masjid. SubhanAllah)

So, for these reasons, it would be most preferable for women to have their own, separate facilities at the masjid - with an entrance that is situated away from the mens entrance, their own ablution facilities, etc.

I think it is the responsibility of the sisters to ensure that they are appropriately attired when going to the masjid (there would be greater benefit to wear a niqaab at least at these times, for the sake of preventing any form of fitnah at the House of Allah), that they try to arrive early so that they avoid mingling in crowds of men/ they can get a close parking to the entrance, not to raise their voices, etc.)


:wa:

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

the only argument against is that Rasulullah, pbuh, never said to do it! unless, astargfirullah, you think he forgot!?

i drives me nuts (which, i admit, a lot of things do :omg:) when we change the Din. especially in the west, some sister will sport about town, sans hijab, free for all, including kafir, to see her in all her glory, but heaving forbid, that a practicing Muslim brother might see her at the Masjid!

there's a logic that is missing there. most of the Masjids i know forbid woman from praying in the same area. and some just forbid women from attending at all! :cry:

it isn't an argument. just trying to explain to the sister that maybe she is worrying about nothing. after all, if a sister truly doesn't want anyone to see her praying, fine! just pray at home! we don't need to change the Din to accommodate her, or anyone!

don't worry faithandpeace, i give Muhammad at little challenge here and there. he is the poor brother who usually has to edit my posts. :D it's not any easy task at all times.

ma salaama

[faithandpeace]

Jazakallah khair for everyone's responses.

I have bookmarked the link to the Youtube video to help me with the Salah. The links to the fatwas which were posted here have also been helpful.

I am less interested in getting involved in masjid politics than I am about ensuring that my Islamic manners and etiquette, conduct, behavior, etc. is acceptable. Not just acceptable but exemplary. I don't believe Islam is about just "doing the minimum." True, fard comes first and then wajib/sunnah/nafl/etc. I am willing to change my appearance and/or behavior at masjid to ensure that I am attending masjid and the salat in the best way possible.

I didn't think about this when I first wrote the post but it is possible that the masjid may be restricted by fire regulations and other things which may be the reason for how they have it currently. I cannot change other people's dress styles or the masjid's policies but I can make the best of what I have to work with. I prefer praying with the other sisters which is why I come to masjid on a semi-regular basis. So I guess it really comes down to how I need to dress, what entrance to use, and where to position myself during the salah as to be done correctly and in the best possible manner.

Insha'Allah I will use the resources from this thread as well as ask the Imam or other responsible people at the masjid about the best way for me to attend masjid/salah and then make the necessary adjustments. I have not done anything horribly wrong but I believe I have made some mistakes that do need to be corrected.

Jazakallah khair for the feedback.

[Ahmad H]

Read the Fiqh on Salat. Perhaps the Madhhabs have given some clear answers on this issue. The website www.sunnipath.com is pretty good. They have a questions and answers section. They cover Salat as well. I go there sometimes to get clarifications on Salat. Some other people may have asked the same questions you did. I don't know if they still answer questions though. I can't remember anything new being put on there.

[faithandpeace]

Some questions on the Salaat after watching the Youtube video.

The first phrase after "Allahu akbar" is "Au dubillahi minatshaitanir rajeem." Is this fine to begin like this or should there be something else or a du'a before? I have seen sites add "Subhana kallah humma wabi hammdika watarabakas muka wata'alla jadduka wa'la illaha ghairuk." At the end of the last raka'a prior to "Assalamu alaikum warahmatullah" is the part "Innaka hamidum majeed." Is that fine to end like that or is there some more you should say or du'as, etc.? Also, about the Surah recited after Al-Fatiha in the first two raka'a I am wondering if these should be two different Surahs or the same Surah both times or different sections of the same Surah.

As to masjid etiquette, many of the sisters immediately fill the row at the very front by the mini barrier instead of starting at the back (as the Hadith pointed out that the back rows are the best for the sisters). There are sisters who dress very modestly and conservatively with abayas and hijabs that are plain colors and then there are sisters who dress in form-fitting Western clothes with hijab barely on their heads. I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle by wearing black abayas and hijabs but with shiny embroidery on parts of them. As to the suggestion about niqab, I am not opposed to this idea and understand there is a debate where some scholars consider it fard and others consider it wajib. However, my understanding is that it is preferable to pray with the face exposed so if the niqab is worn upon entering the masjid or in the social areas where men could see, shouldn't it then be lifted during salah? If so, then the men would still be able to see the face if they chose to turn and look over at the sisters and then this would defeat the purpose of the niqab since it would have to be down in such a circumstance. I think the masjid should form some kind of uniform clarification to determine where all sisters and brothers should line up for salat and what should be worn or not worn during the salah and in the social areas of the masjid and in the parking lots, etc. Because you have sisters all over the place--some in nice rows but right up in front, then long large gaps, half rows here, quarter rows there, people praying by themselves, etc. My understanding is that all this started when the masjid removed the veil between the sections causing these issues in the sisters section. Sometimes we have to go through the brothers area to get to the sisters area because the sisters entrance is locked. Preferably, based on what people have said here, I should park near the sisters entrance, use that entrance when possible, and form rows with the other sisters toward the back of the prayer hall. I don't know that my clothes are a real issue but I can dress more conservatively if it will please Allah (swt), and benefit the situation at the masjid. I don't want to speculate too much but I do suspect there is a bit of a war between Western feminism and traditional Islamic values competing in this masjid. I already have had a run-in with "progressives" who are trying to change Islam at this masjid.

Jazakallah khair.

[Muhaba]

It's strange that women want a barrier in the masjid but not anywhere else where they interact with men, like in the streets or shopping centers or restaurants, or even schools and colleges! Everywhere else it's alright to sit where men can see you but you remember your modesty in the masjid and want to hide from the men. strange.

actually there was no barrier at the time of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم and the deen was complete at his time. The rule was that the last row is best for women and the front row is best for men. Barriers may be a good idea but they can cause some hindrance to learning of the religion. Where women are cut off from the main part of the masjid altogether, then it's possible that they can't take part in lectures or any advice being given to the people. It becomes easy for the men to ignore the women and women lose a lot. Since women are the trainers of the next generation (children), much loss has resulted because of this. Shaytan is definatly in action. I've seen many women who talk and behave boldly in front of men in other places but become shy near the masjid, as if their presence is an obstruction to men's piety somehow, that somehow they will affect men's salah. I think this mindset needs to be removed. Allah and His Messenger knew best what was necessary to remain in piety and if they didn't make a barrier between men and women in the masjid then who's more entitled to do so?

And one more thing. I like the idea of having several places, some with a barrier and others without the barrier. So if women want to just rest in the masjid or attent a women's lecture, they can do so in the separated portion and for the actual salah, they can use the main portion that isn't separated from the men's area.