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IbnAbdulHakim
09-02-2013, 06:45 PM
Assalamu Alaikum


I didn't feel this during 9/11, not during Afghanistan, Not during Iraq or any other conflicts. But the more I hear about Syria, the more the issue escalates... I feel a deeply OVERWHELMING fear that the end is so near... that only the extremely near coming of the Mahdi will resolve this....


Honestly I cant even describe how certain I feel inside. I just hope Allah allows me to be physically and mentally fit and with high emaan at that time.


anyone else get this feeling?
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crimsontide06
09-02-2013, 07:37 PM
Most of the major signs to the end haven't happened yet, they cannot happen all within a short span can they?? lol
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sister herb
09-02-2013, 08:45 PM
Salam alaykum

What should to do with Syria? Any ideas? Attacks there might cause bigger war than now? The west can´t be quiet IF there is used chemical weapons and they will do something.

^o)

Who has even sold them to Syria? Iran? Who sold them to Iran?
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h-n
09-02-2013, 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Assalamu Alaikum


I didn't feel this during 9/11, not during Afghanistan, Not during Iraq or any other conflicts. But the more I hear about Syria, the more the issue escalates... I feel a deeply OVERWHELMING fear that the end is so near... that only the extremely near coming of the Mahdi will resolve this....


Honestly I cant even describe how certain I feel inside. I just hope Allah allows me to be physically and mentally fit and with high emaan at that time.


anyone else get this feeling?
Personally, I've already been thinking about it before September 11th. Also the Mahdi is not going to be sorting this out, as the countries will collapse before the Dajjal arrives were he will come assuming control.

Most of the Minor signs of the Day of Judgement have happened, we are yet to start with the Major signs of the Day of Judgement. When they begin they will follow after each other ie knowing that the Dajjal is here, one would know that the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him will be coming back in the Dajjal's lifetime, and then the Gog and Magog etc.

At the moment we are witnessing the end of these countries (before the Dajjal will arrive). The whole world will be going through the same thing ie the Dajjal the test for the whole world, the Gog and Magog for the whole world, they decided to go against Islam and they go through their financial crisis together and even the 2004 tsunami the whole world moved.

As the sinful people are responding the same way that they did with the Prophets before them ie;-

the homosexuals rejecting Prophet Lut peace be upon him and during this war today they have increased in acceptance of homosexuality ie civil partnerships, "marriages", and letting them have children,

people throwing the Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him into the fire, today people claim they are respecting other people, but then why are they so happy if someone leaves Islam???

They reject the headscarves but accept mini skirts etc.

I'm not saying that everyone does in the western world, and I am not blaming the governments doing on the people, the public's only test is that they refrain from siding with the evil doers, just as the people at the time of Pharoah did even when the witnessed the plagues. Just as the people decided to side with the homosexuals (as they weren't all homosexuals) against the Prophet Lut peace be upon him.

It is important to read the Quran, and as Allah has clearly stated many times that do they think that they will continue? When he has already destroyed many people in the past.

So we are witnessing the end of the countries, and then the Major signs of the Day of Judgement even if the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is here for 40 years, it does not mean that people look for the life of this world.

We PLACE OUR TRUST with Allah, whatever happens we have to just deal with it, and the people that will be better dealing with it are not those that look for the life of this world, thinking of just having jobs, homes etc. So reading the Quran, placing peace in our hearts and remembering that our journey no matter what happens, where we are we go back to Allah.
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h-n
09-02-2013, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Salam alaykum

What should to do with Syria? Any ideas? Attacks there might cause bigger war than now? The west can´t be quiet IF there is used chemical weapons and they will do something.

^o)

Who has even sold them to Syria? Iran? Who sold them to Iran?
I think you have a serious problem. You have posted countless threads about war, and even in this thread about the Major signs of the Day of Judgement you go back to talking about Syria. Just shows that you need to sort yourself out and stop thinking about conflict more then what Allah has taught us!!

Please tell us what is Syria conflict when;-

1. After these countries are not here, we go through the Major signs of the Day of Judgement, were you will not find many people being able to help you, they all will be looking to each other to find out what to do next as typically people do as they are afraid and wish to join the crowds.

2. Allah himself has stated that he is testing people, and he himself does not prevent people from being evil, neither did he stop Pharoah from slaughtering the new born sons. He IS NOT telling the Muslims that the more you talk about the ill deeds of politicians the better person you are.

You have clearly showed many times over that you think less of heeding the signs of the Day of Judgement and talking no differently as non-Muslims do about conflicts.

3. There is not going to be another Prophet now, not until the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him comes back which will be AFTER these countries have collapsed. So when Islam was being spoken about even more so after Sep 11th, Allah has done so much to tell people that there is one God, the Day of Judgment, Paradise and Hell.

As Allah stated that why should people think they would continue when he already destroyed people for rejecting the truth and accepting sins ie homosexuality.

What do you think is going to happen even if we did have peace?? That Allah will not be destroying the wrongdoers?? Do you think that we are going to talk to them like they have never heard about Islam?? Wake up, they have rejected Islam many times and even opposed the Muslims whilst they are happy to judge people on how "kind" they are by accepting homosexuality.

4. If you think this is bad, its going to get worse, there will be no internets, no TVs, the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is not going to appear on TV, or give interviews and neither will the Dajjal, you will be relying on word of mouth of what is going on, and you need to be prepared and know the Major signs of the Day of Judgement, as people going through would largely get caught up and not heed Allah's warning.

5. Shouldn't be going any further, but why are you quoting Syria government and Iran?? Have you not understood the politics yet??? The rebels in Syria started fighting, they are Sunnis and dislike their government, they decided to use even idol worshippers etc to fight other Muslims, just as the Kuwaitis did against Saddam Hussain.

The western government has been attacking countries before letting their public know about it ie attacking Pakistan, Somolia (even getting the Ethiopian government to attack Somolia as they didn't want an Islamist government there). Just as they didn't want one in Egypt hence the ousting of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The western goverment pays governments around the world to get along with them, they have to be pro-western if not they are mentioned as "bad" people. This is why they give funding to many corrupt regimes even in Africa regardless of how people are treated.

They wished to attack Iraq before and they wish to attack Iran now. They have already been prompting Iran to provoke them to retaliate -this has not worked (even sending in drones etc). They obviously tried to provoke Saddam Hussain but he didn't retaliate, the Iranian government knows the game, if they retaliate, the western media will only portray them as the instigator. Even Adolf Hitler (not that I care of him, but what do people think of how things were when all these governments are doing this today) was being alienated by the other governments before World War 2. They didn't want him, and has he was not a Muslim was easily provoked and decided to be on the offensive (that is a no brainer,l even to what they are doing now).

Please read the Quran again and again, as nowhere does Allah state that we go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about the ill doings of governments (save that we know what is going on to HEED Allah's warnings).


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IbnAbdulHakim
09-02-2013, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by crimsontide06
Most of the major signs to the end haven't happened yet, they cannot happen all within a short span can they?? lol
Imam Mahdi is the LAST of the MINOR signs.


then the major signs come bro. and yes - they happen like the drops of beads from a necklace - one after another without pause....
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IbnAbdulHakim
09-02-2013, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
Personally, I've already been thinking about it before September 11th. Also the Mahdi is not going to be sorting this out, as the countries will collapse before the Dajjal arrives were he will come assuming control.
bro it is stated in sahih ahadith that the Mahdi will unite the world under the sunnah. - the world wont be completely perfect until Isa alaihissalaam comes of course but you must admit that a united muslim ummah sounds quite peaceful. Islam will reign - until Dajjal comes and causes his corruption
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Jedi_Mindset
09-02-2013, 10:54 PM
You are not the only one who has this feeling bro, as right now we are seeing turmoil in these countries: Iraq, Syria and egypt. Now guess this, three countries would be placed under sanctions and their currency removed (This points at invasion)

The hadith which mentions this continues with rasoolAllah(Saw) saying that we would recoil to the position where we started. I am going to explain this as i am not a hadith scholars or anything even close to it.

I have been posting this alot of times here and other forums because its so significant. As-sham is a very very important area, so expect more to come there.

The War and Sanctions on Iraq, Syria, and in Future Egypt - as foretold in Hadith

With what has been transpiring in Iraq, and now Syria - it is extremely sad that the Muslim Ummah is SLEEP WALKING from one disaster into another - without paying much attention to what has been foretold to us in Ahadeeth and without realizing that Taaghooti forces are conveniently PLAYING our differences and Perceived fault-lines while the vast majority of the Ummah are getting exploited resulting in thousands of Muslims getting killed.
I encourage and invite all to go through some Ahadeeth and see for themselves what has been foretold and then put their hand on heart and ask themselves - if they want to be part of the problem - or part of the solution - a solution that unites and brings the ummah together - rather than cause its further destruction.
The following very interesting Hadith clearly foretold what is happening in Middle-East these days.
I first read the following hadith in Ibn'e Katheer's summary of Bidaya Wan Nihaya... but then on noted that it is from Sahih Muslim (as the original source).


Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6923.
The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Hour

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) as saying:

1. Iraq would withhold its dirhams and qafiz;

2. Syria would withhold its mudd and dinar and

3. Egypt would withhold its irdab and dinar and

4. You would recoil to that position from where you started and
(Repeated). You would recoil to that position from where you started and
(Repeated). You would recoil to that position from where you started,

5. The bones and the flesh of Abu Huraira would bear testimony to it.

Muslim: Book 41, Number 6961:

Abu Nadra reported: We were in the company of Jabir b. ‘Abdullah that he said:
“It may happen that the people of Iraq may not send their qafiz and dirhams. We said, “Who would be responsible for it?” He said, “The non-Arabs would prevent them.” He again said,
“There is the possibility that the people of Syria may not send their dinar and mudd.” We said, “Who would be responsible for it?” He said, “This prevention would be made by the Romans.” He (Jabir b. Abdullab) kept quiet for a while and then reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) having said: “There would be a caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to the people without counting it”. I said to Abu Nadra and Abu al-’Ala, “DO you mean ‘Umar bin ‘Abd al-Aziz?” They said, “No (he would be Mehdi).”


When reading the above two ahadith together – it clearly explains what is happening in the Middle-East these days and who would be responsible for it.

Some research on this Hadith:

According to this Hadith - "sanctions" would be imposed on 3 countries in the Middle-East in specific order as mentioned in the Hadith:
1st Iraq, 2nd Syria, and finally 3rd Egypt.

Let us do some detailed evaluation of this Hadith.
The hadith above mentions – Dirham and Qafiz in reference to Iraq.

The Hadith says:

“Iraq would with hold its dirham and qafiz”

Dirham = Money (see below for details)
Qafiz = A Measure of Oil!

1 Dinar = Gold Coin weighing 72 grains of average barley. This is now calculated as: 4.45 gm of Gold.
1 Dirham = (7/10) = 0.7 Dinar. (i.e. Dirham is 70% of a Gold Dinar).

It should be noted that the word “Qafiz” has been used through history for a measure of oil! Because of the Arab influence over southern Italy the Sicilian language has also borrowed some words from Arabic. One such word is clearly from the Arabic “Qifaz” and that word in Sicilain language is “Cafisu” - (cafiso: measure of oil) - [Arabic: qafiz]


This means that the sanctions imposed on Iraq would be about “Money and Oil”. i.e. An economic sanction with holding Money and Oil. (Remember the UN sanctions on Iraq and the Oil for Food programme).


The Non-Arabs would prevent them

As the Hadith about Iraq sanctions mentions - "The Non-Arabs would prevent them" - meaning that generally the Arab population would not be in favour of the sanctions in Iraq and it would be implemented by groups of nations - mostly non Arabs (i.e. Western Powers + United Nation)

We now know as a fact that economic sanctions were imposed on Iraq - after which there was 1st Persian Gulf War and then a 2nd Persian Gulf War.
The Persian Gulf War (2 August 1990 – 28 February 1991), codenamed Operation Desert Storm (17 January 1991 – 28 February 1991) commonly referred to as simply the Gulf War, was a war waged under the U.N. authorized coalition force from 34 nations led by the US and closely in cooperation with UK, against Iraq.

Duration of the Sanctions & War on Iraq

Sanctions were imposed (which can be seen in military terminology as a technique with the goal of “Softening up the Target”.
The war against Iraq started in August, 1990 – and ended in December, 2011 (although very strong foreign influences remain). The U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq was completed on December 18, 2011
Approximate Total time: Around 22-23 years. However – if you add the pre-war sanctions – the actual duration against Iraq is much longer. According to some estimates just the pre-war sanctions on Iraq were responsible for nearly 5 million deaths of children due to lack of medicine, medical supplies, and healthy nutrition.

The Number of Muslims Killed in Iraq

The result of the war on Iraq is clear. Although Saddam Hussain is gone – thousands upon thousands of Muslims have perished in this “foreign imposed war”.

A study, published in prestigious medical journal The Lancet, estimated that over 600,000 Iraqis had been killed as a result of the invasion (as of July 2006). Iraqis have continued to be killed since then.
The updated estimate as of 2012 is that more than a million Muslims died in Iraq. The estimate that over a million Muslims in Iraq have died received independent confirmation from a prestigious British polling agency in January 2008. Opinion Research Business estimated that the death toll between March 2003 and August 2007 was 1,033,000.

Syria would withhold its mudd and dinar ...

The Hadith mentions “Mudd and Dinar” in reference to Syria.

Mudd = typically used as a measure of Wheat, or more generally food (rice, wheat, barley, bread, etc). One Mudd is equated to ¾ of a kilogram, or sometimes as 708 grams. A mudd is a measure, commonly translated in today's terminology as a "Bushel"
This means that the sanctions imposed on Syria would be about Wheat and possibly general Food and (dinar) Money.

Further - the general food sanctions/witholding would be of a smaller nature compared to the sanctions imposed on Iraq (as Mudd refers to a small measure of general food items of around 708 grams).

Considering the sanctions on Syria - the hadith mentions “This prevention would be made by the Romans". Also please note that this time it was not mentioned that "The non-Arabs would prevent them" - this means that not just non-Arabs but even Arab government and population will be included in this.

This is clearly visible by the direct involvement of many Arab countries in the Middle-east such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Gulf Countries, and even “fighters” have poured in from as far as Tunisia and Libya.

This means that the key driver of sanctions against Syria would be present day Romans - i.e. Europeans and USA plus UK.

Considering what happened with Iraq - a similar fate seems to now be emerging as the expected outcome in Syria - resulting in war, then destruction of the country and finally withdrawal of occupation forces. Already nearly 80,000 plus Muslims have perished in this internal strife and war in Syria.

Considering that war in Syria started in 2012 – although without direct and visible involvement of “Roman” forces yet (no boots on the ground) - if we expect this to take around the same time as in Iraq, it may take potentially until 2012+22 = 2034.
Muslims should pray that insha Allah – that the situation in Syria does not drag out in a long drawn out war and would end quickly.

Egypt would with hold its irdab and dinar and

Taking the hadith to its logical conclusion - we can expect that after the conflict in Syria finishes - a situation similar to that which happened in Iraq / Syria - would finally happen in Egypt.

When Husni Mubarak was in power - I used to think how the west can be against Egypt - as Mubarak was their own man. However - as the "revolution" started and Ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood) started to come to power - it became clear to me that - this will happen after Ikhwan or may be a combination of "Islamist" parties stay in power for sometime in Egypt and start to change the policies - specially the policy of being friendly with Israel and blocking aid to Palestinians. Further imagine if the Islamic parties in Egypt rip apart the agreement signed with Israel about Sinai - and take ownership of Sinai - then - it will be considered as "open challenge" to Israel and the US and according to the current terms of agreement would be “an act of war”. Only Allah (swt) knows how the situation in Egypt would develop – however – already the “Islamist” parties have come to power in Egypt and already the relationship between Egypt and the Western Powers has changed.
The words used in reference with Egypt are Irdab and Dinar.

Irdab is a special measure especially related to Egypt.
1 Irdab = 73 KG (of Wheat)

When talking about grain - Irdab generally means wheat free from rubblish, dirt and the husks. More generally Irdab also refers to fruit in their dried state - such as dried dates and raisins.

Hence the economic sanctions against Egypt would impact dried fruits and wheat imports/exports and ofcourse dinar (money).

The present and future governments and citizens of Egypt - specially those who have any concern for the Muslims there - should take heed and start preparing for such eventuality by making sure that they can protect and defend themselves from certain onslaught that is to befall them in the future - as Hadith can never be wrong.

Finally the hadith mentions

you would recoil to that position from where you started and
you would recoil to that position from where you started and
you would recoil to that position from where you started,


It is good to remember that when Rasul Allah (saw) wanted to emphasize some pointso that those who listen - can memorize and pay special attention – he (saw) repeated in 3 times. Hence when we notice that this phrase is repeated 3 times - this is a sign that we should pay special attention and take heed/note.

"You would recoil to the position from where you started" to me means exactly what it says - that the muslims in various parts of the world - would recoil (i.e. return) to the position from where they started. This can most likely mean that muslims return to their places of origin - so the majority of muslims in non-muslim lands (like Muslims living in North America, and Europe) would potentially return to their land of origin in the Middle-East in great numbers. This would happen if the economic situation in these countries continue to deteriorate to the point that racism, islamophobia and islam bashing becomes common place and a muslim wearing islamic dress or a woman wearing Hijab or Niqab will be banned... early signs of all these have already started happening and I fear that this trend will only continue over time.

And Allah (azza wa jal) knows best.

http://ummahpriorities.blogspot.nl/2013 ... a-and.html
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h-n
09-02-2013, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
bro it is stated in sahih ahadith that the Mahdi will unite the world under the sunnah. - the world wont be completely perfect until Isa alaihissalaam comes of course but you must admit that a united muslim ummah sounds quite peaceful. Islam will reign - until Dajjal comes and causes his corruption
Actually, there won't be the number of Muslims as there are today who will join him, only those who were steadfast in Islam, and so the Muslims will be going to him (even the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him told us to go to him). He will be alive at the time of conflicts and even a bad leader will be sending an army to him (which will not reach him-but shows it is not peaceful times), he will then be advising the Muslims to stay away from the Dajjal.

There is no such thing as an "Islamic state" as it will be casual leadership ie no court houses, people alive at the time of the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him do not forget have seen conflict, have witnessed the arrival and death of the Dajjal and the Gog and Magog will be coming back. Just because there is an abundance of food and no conflict for a while that does not mean that there will be an Islamic state as they are going through the Major signs of the Day of Judgement. This is also why the Prophet will be abolishing the Jizya as not negotiating with non-Muslims to just live with them (that of course does not mean that they are being killed for not being a Muslim).

Feel free to read the following, as I believe all this about Islamic state is wrong and some people are turning to doing what the Jews and the Christians are doing looking for a state in this world were the Jews wish to build a state and the Christians think that the Prophet will be ruling for a thousand years. Which is why the most steadfast do not ever stop thinking about the one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell, that no Prophet would ever tell their people about building a state during the Major signs of the Day of Judgement as they know that people are weak too and are easily lead astray and looking for the life of this world. That would be a very bad thing.

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...judgement.html
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WarriorforMarie
09-03-2013, 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Assalamu Alaikum


I didn't feel this during 9/11, not during Afghanistan, Not during Iraq or any other conflicts. But the more I hear about Syria, the more the issue escalates... I feel a deeply OVERWHELMING fear that the end is so near... that only the extremely near coming of the Mahdi will resolve this....


Honestly I cant even describe how certain I feel inside. I just hope Allah allows me to be physically and mentally fit and with high emaan at that time.


anyone else get this feeling?

The conflict in Syria and it potential to pull in other countries is certainly worrying and a cause for concern. However, probably the greatest risk and the thing that must be avoided at all costs is a war between the United States and China. These two superpowers must find a way to work with each other despite being adversaries. I think that if that is possible, there is great potential for general stability in the world for the next several decades.
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WarriorforMarie
09-03-2013, 02:12 AM
Originally Posted by h-n
There is no such thing as an "Islamic state" as it will be casual leadership ie no court houses
I'm sorry, I had some trouble following this particular post. Are you saying that an Islamic state is not possible in the present because rule through Islam will forgo the workings of a state or did you mean that in some sort of future time when prophecy stuff has happened that there will not be a state?
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h-n
09-03-2013, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by WarriorforMarie
I'm sorry, I had some trouble following this particular post. Are you saying that an Islamic state is not possible in the present because rule through Islam will forgo the workings of a state or did you mean that in some sort of future time when prophecy stuff has happened that there will not be a state?
I thankfully being of sound mind, have no trouble following yours, you start by telling everyone that you don't wish to join religion because you don't wish to think of someone going to Hell, then your whole concern suddenly becomes about how a Muslim state is run (which is a HUGE LEAP- and rather bizarre).

You mentioned that you studying politics, its a pity that this is not evident, have you read the whole of this post and the added link provided to you? Have you read the book that someone suggested for you to read on previous threads??? All your doing is asking the same question over and over again, without even clarifying why you don't understand such and such a point written in books and other threads. Simply its best to read -if you wish to pass your exams and have more clarity on your own thoughts instead of simply asking people to clarify theirs (when they have already done so). I think if your going to do that, you might want to forgo studying political science, and perhaps get a job working somewhere were no one actually speaks to you, so that you can never be confused. :D

I've used plenty of spaces in between some words in the below paragraph to help you read more slowly, taking one word at a time, so you can slowly digest the information;-

I ----will--- however simply state that ----people think ---that they-- will be living similar -----to -----how ------they are today to when they go through the Major signs of the------- Day of Judgement -they ----------will not. --------You would ------not be thinking of ---decorating ---your homes, being bothered--- about choice of clothes.--------- Not going to ---Universities to ---have a career as people-------- literally know that the -----Day of Judgement is upon ----them (so the huge difference is that they are physically living their lives knowing that the Day of Judgement is -------upon them-unlike ---today people are just ---remembering that Day). So there won't be state ----buildings being made, and ----state borders being controlled, but its a leadership by the -------Prophet Jesus peace be upon him -------but people ---will not have ---a state as you ------think of one today. Anyone thinking that they are ------going to -------build and build in ---this --world during the---- Major signs of the Day of Judgement just ---haven't thought of the ---differences. ----Neither is the goal of ---many Muslims today who also ----heed the signs of the--- Day of Judgement.
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WarriorforMarie
09-03-2013, 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by h-n
I thankfully have no trouble following yours, you start by telling everyone that you don't wish to join religion because you don't wish to think of someone going to Hell, then your whole concern suddenly becomes about how a Muslim state is run (which is a HUGE LEAP- and rather bizarre).

You mentioned that you studying politics, its a pity that this is not evident, have you read the whole of this post and the added link provided to you? Have you read the book that someone suggested for you to read on previous threads??? All your doing is asking the same question over and over again, without even clarifying why you don't understand such and such a point written in books and other threads. Simply its best to read -if you wish to pass your exams and have more clarity on your own thoughts instead of simply asking people to clarify theirs (when they have already done so). I think if your going to do that, you might want to forgo studying political science, and perhaps get a job working somewhere were no one actually speaks to you, so that you can never be confused.

I will however simply state that people think that they will be living similar to how they are today to when they go through the Major signs of the Day of Judgement -they will not. You would not be thinking of decorating your homes, being bothered about choice of clothes. Not going to Universities to have a career as people literally know that the Day of Judgement is upon them (so the huge difference is that they are physically living their lives knowing that the Day of Judgement is upon them-unlike today people are just remembering that Day). So there won't be state buildings being made, and state borders being controlled, but its a leadership by the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him but people will not have a state as you think of one today. Anyone thinking that they are going to build and build in this world during the Major signs of the Day of Judgement just haven't thought of the differences. Neither is the goal of many Muslims today who also heed the signs of the Day of Judgement.

Any repetition of my quests is mostly due to an inability (or unwillingness) of anyone on these boards to actually answer. I would ask what the defining characteristics os an Islamic State are and mostly just hear people that it is too complex for them to explain. Fair enough. Perhaps they can at the very least give an example of an Islamic State?

That is a very interesting thing you said about the "Day of Judgement." I have tried reading what you have to say about this supposed event. In my own country I often hear Christians also making such claims. That the end is near. The end is seemingly always near. It is really depressing when I read about elected members of Congress wasting their time talking about evolution, Satan, the ten commandents, Jesus, etc. I can only imagine that the leadership of China reads about such things, scratches their heads, then shrug their shoulders and get on with the business of building a Superpower.
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WarriorforMarie
09-03-2013, 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by h-n
I've used plenty of spaces in between some words in the below paragraph to help you read more slowly, taking one word at a time, so you can slowly digest the information;-

I ----will--- however simply state that ----people think ---that they-- will be living similar -----to -----how ------they are today to when they go through the Major signs of the------- Day of Judgement -they ----------will not. --------You would ------not be thinking of ---decorating ---your homes, being bothered--- about choice of clothes.--------- Not going to ---Universities to ---have a career as people-------- literally know that the -----Day of Judgement is upon ----them (so the huge difference is that they are physically living their lives knowing that the Day of Judgement is -------upon them-unlike ---today people are just ---remembering that Day). So there won't be state ----buildings being made, and ----state borders being controlled, but its a leadership by the -------Prophet Jesus peace be upon him -------but people ---will not have ---a state as you ------think of one today. Anyone thinking that they are ------going to -------build and build in ---this --world during the---- Major signs of the Day of Judgement just ---haven't thought of the ---differences. ----Neither is the goal of ---many Muslims today who also ----heed the signs of the--- Day of Judgement.
Well, that is certainly an interesting speculation of what the future may be like.
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h-n
09-03-2013, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by WarriorforMarie
Any repetition of my quests is mostly due to an inability (or unwillingness) of anyone on these boards to actually answer. I would ask what the defining characteristics os an Islamic State are and mostly just hear people that it is too complex for them to explain. Fair enough. Perhaps they can at the very least give an example of an Islamic State?

That is a very interesting thing you said about the "Day of Judgement." I have tried reading what you have to say about this supposed event. In my own country I often hear Christians also making such claims. That the end is near. The end is seemingly always near. It is really depressing when I read about elected members of Congress wasting their time talking about evolution, Satan, the ten commandents, Jesus, etc. I can only imagine that the leadership of China reads about such things, scratches their heads, then shrug their shoulders and get on with the business of building a Superpower.
I disagree and here's why;-

1. Others have provided you with good points and even reference to material-have you read them yet??

2. The only reason that I can understand is typically people brush off "religion" as unimportant, but if you wish to understand Islamic state then you have to LEARN ABOUT ISLAM FIRST. AS when we govern it is to do with the Islamic laws and understanding. So of course you can't learn about one without learning the other FIRST. Please read the Quran and the hadiths and then ask questions.

3. Parliament would be even more different if they were doing what your doing, leaders need to be quick in understanding the situation and in what others are saying, when they are debating can you imagine them, if they sat there asking the same question again and again and saying that I don't understand. WHEN YOU don't understand you HAVE to give the reasons on why you don't -you have not- ie such and such stated this I don't accept this because such and such a reason. (just making the same blanket statement). Regardless you have to read up on the religion of Islam if you want to understand why we do the things we do.

4. Quoting China just shows that you need to learn about Islam, as we are never going to listen to anyone above the Prophets, ie China is NOT better then Prophet Jesus, Muhammad, Noah, Saleh, Moses peace be upon them. The Prophets were the most intelligent and the best of Men, and whatever you say will NEVER be taken above what the messengers of Allah have given us.

5. It has already been mentioned that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him when he comes back -he is not going to be "voted" in to being our leader. Neither would the population need to scrutinize what decisions he is making-AS he is a Prophet from God himself, we place our trust in him completely and as he follows the law of God, ie no idol worship etc, the population benefits as of course they would not be oppressed. Which of course, you can't tell me that the majority of the population in "democratic" countries have a say so in everything, were they are told that they are at war when they never even been to Iran and have never said anything to them, letting politicians vote is not a democracy its is no difference in letting others make the decisions on your behalf. Even in the UK the vote to strike Syria was too close to going the other way.

You are living a lie if you think that "democracy" exists and if you want to have a comparison regarding Islamic rule of law then you would need to quite frankly compare it to your own ideal way of how a country should be run as the western countries are a poor example of democracy were they throw out petitions on death penalty in the UK. So called freedom means nothing when your critical of soldiers who refuse to fight (are they saying that a Man can't change his mind?? And would have to stick to it even if he dies?? Therefore not being able to make a decision on his own life?? In Islam we don't fight against those Muslims who refuse to fight but only fight against those who fight us.

Please stop turning threads into how Islamic states are run, when you need to read about Islam first, in order for you to understand why we do things the way we do.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
09-03-2013, 04:25 PM
Islamic state is impossible for us sinful corrupt individuals. but the Mahdi will create a united Islamic state for sure. I have no doubt about that.

but all the groups today - hizbut tahrir/al muhajirun/ikhwanul muslimeen and the list goes on are all causing sectarian division and fitnah and doing more harm then good.
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h-n
09-03-2013, 05:54 PM
We should never make the same mistakes that the Jews have done, looking for the life of this world, and even treating the Prophets as if they are here to support them living in this world, which is why they were left wandering in the desert at the time of the Prophet Moses peace be upon him.

No Prophet came into this world and said that we have to build a "state", (it is rather that the Muslims after becoming religious wish to live under an Islamic state), and to guard against ourselves from being evil -which is not an issue during the Major signs of the Day of Judgement as we no longer have the kind of tolerance of the wrong doers as we have today ie why should we tolerate those that join the Dajjal -there need to be no dialogue, no need to tell them to repent, but severance of any sort of relations with them. Even the homosexuals will not be saying what they are today during that time, it is a time that people will not be doing black magic as that means that people are jealous of so and so, and wish to live in this world, but would you be jealous of someone if you were in a natural disaster?? Even jealous thoughts escape people when they are in fear, when the Dajjal come they will not be doing black magic as you see them,j as that shows a level of comfort that they will not have that they think that life will just continue.

Too many people watching too many movies, were NOT waiting for a Man to come to sort out our problems (no Prophets came to sort out our problems, but rather that WE had to repent and be Muslims ourselves), this is also why the Muslims have to be good, this is why we are successful as we supported the Prophets (the Jews did not and were left wandering at the time of Prophet Moses peace be upon him and the Christians did not stand by the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him and feared the authorities even after the miracles that he had shown by Allah's leave).

It is a FACT that the at the time of the Mahdi there won't be a peaceful state, due to conflicts, it is actually AFTER when the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him comes back when he has killed the Dajjal (the people having been through a drought, and the Dajjal etc) that there will be a more peace until the Gog and Magog arrives.

If people think that there will be a state are left astray what on earth do you think that people will be doing at that time??? They are overlapping and confusing the issue ie as stated that a Muslim accepts the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him leadership without question just as with any other Prophet -IT IS THIS that people are using to say that you are being a wrong doer if you do not believe in an Islamic state, the facts are that people give their loyalty to the Prophet, after the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him died then it is to his companions BUT TODAY it does not mean that we join anyone who just calls themselves Muslims and thats it, we are ENTITLED TO not be comfortable, unsure of someone, that is why for me I will only place my trust in the Mahdi and the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

Obviously people are easily lead astray by this so called state, they don't think that it would be a bad thing, a very, very, very bad thing it is, the focus is on the Day of Judgement, if you were there when you are up the mountain escaping the Gog and Magog trashing the place-why on earth would you be thinking about building a state???? There is NO MOTIVATION and of course it doesn't make any sense. This time around you won't be thinking that far in saying, my children will grow up and they will have children and they will grow up and they will have their own children. The Prophets never failed to warn anyone of the Day of Judgement, and if you think that the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is going to support people's attention from wandering to living in this world, when HE knows full well that no one will be coming after him and that the world is literally coming to an end. What you say is complete folly. We are to join the Mahdi and the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him to be in a more safer, and have more security in PASSING our tests when going through the Major signs of the Day of Judgement-that is our benefit and nothing else, as nothing changes that is why were here to pass our tests.
Reply

Signor
09-03-2013, 06:55 PM
:wa:

Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
I feel a deeply OVERWHELMING fear that the end is so near.
When it comes to Signs of the End of Times,Its not the END its ONLY a BEND,there is whole lot mankind will going to witness.

Just in case,you are unaware:
Allah - subhânahu wa Taâla - said:
“They ask thee about the Hour, ‘When will be its appointed time?’ Wherein art thou (concerned) with the declaration thereof? With thy Lord is the Limit fixed thereof. Thou art but a Warner for such as fear it. The Day they will see it, (it will be) as if they had tarried but a single evening, or (at most till) the following morn!” (an-Nâzi’at 79:42-46)
“They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: ‘The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.’ They ask thee as if thou were eager in search thereof: say: ‘The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.’ ” (al-A‘râf 7:187)

There are many Âyat and Ahadîth concerning this subject: Allah said:
“The Hour (of Judgement) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.” (al-Qamar 54:1)

The Prophet - sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam - said, whilst pointing with his index and middle fingers, “The time of my advent and the Hour are like these two fingers.” In another report he said, “The Hour almost came before me.” This indicates how close we are, relatively speaking, to the Hour.

Allah said: “Closer and closer to mankind comes their Reckoning: yet they heed not and they turn away.” (al-Anbiyâ’ 21:1)
“(Inevitable) cometh (to pass) the Command of Allah: seek, ye not then to hasten it.” (an-Nahl 16:1)
“Only those wish to hasten it who believe not in it: those who believe hold it in awe, and know that it is the Truth.” (ash-Shûra 42:18)

In Sahîh al-Bukhârî, there is a Hadîth which states that a Bedouin asked the Prophet about the Hour. He said, “It will surely come to pass. What have you prepared for it?” The man said, “O Messenger of Allah, I have not prepared much in the way of prayer and good works, but I love Allah and His Messenger.” The Prophet said, “You will be with those you love.” The Muslims had never rejoiced as much they did when they heard this Hadîth.
Some Ahadîth report that the Prophet was asked about the Hour. He looked towards a young boy and said, “If he lives, he will not grow very old before he sees your Last Hour coming to you.” By this he meant their death and entering the Hereafter, because everyone who dies enters the Hereafter; some people say that when a person has died, his Judgement has begun. This Hadîth with this meaning is "correct" (Sahîh). Some heretics comment on this Hadîth and give it an incorrect meaning. The exact timing of the Great Hour (as-Sâ’at al-’Uzma) is something which Allah alone knows and which He has not revealed to anyone, as is clear from the Hadîth in which the Prophet said: “There are five things which nobody knows except Allah;” then he recited, “Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).” (Luqmân 31:34)

When Gabriel (Jibrîl) - ’alayhis salâm - came to the Prophet in the guise of a Bedouin, he asked him about Islam, Îmân (faith) and Ihsân (excellence of faith); and the Prophet answered his questions. But when he asked him about the Hour, he said, “The one questioned about it knows no better than the questioner.” Jibrîl said, “Tell me about its signs.” Then the Prophet described them, as we shall see later when we quote this Hadîth and others in full.

Hudhayfah said: “The Prophet stood up one day to speak to us, and told us everything that was going to happen until the Hour, and left nothing unsaid. Some of the listeners learnt it by heart, and some forgot it; these friends of mine learnt it. I do not remember it completely, but sometimes it springs to mind, just as one might remember and recognise the face of a man whom one had forgotten, when one sees him.” (Abû Dâwûd, Muslim)
Imâm Ahmad reported via Abû Nudrah that Abû Sa‘îd said: “One day the Prophet led us in praying the afternoon prayer (Salâtul-’Asr). Then he stood and addressed us until sunset. He mentioned everything that was to happen until the Day of Resurrection, and left nothing unsaid. Some of us remembered it, and some of us forgot it. One of the things he said was: ‘O people, this world is full of attractive temptations. Allah has appointed you as vicegerents (Khalîfah) in this world, and He will see how you will act. So guard yourselves against the temptations of this world and of women.’ Towards the end of this speech, he said, ‘The sun is about to set, and what remains of this world, compared to what has passed, is like what remains of this day compared to what has passed.’

'Alî ibn Zayd ibn Jad’an al-Timi narrated some Gharîb and Munkar Ahadîth - which could bring into question the validity of this Hadîth. But there are some reports which are similar to this Hadîth, and which were transmitted with different isnâds. Part of this Hadîth is in Sahîh Muslim, through Abû Nudrah on the authority of Abû Sa’îd. This Hadîth refers to something which is beyond any doubt: what remains of this world, compared to what has passed, is very little. In spite of that, no-one can know exactly how much time is left except Allah, and no-one can know exactly how much time has passed, except Allah.
Reply

h-n
09-04-2013, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Signor
:wa:
When it comes to Signs of the End of Times,Its not the END its ONLY a BEND,there is whole lot mankind will going to witness.
It is not the first time I've heard Muslims say the above when no one has ever claimed to know when the Day of Judgement will be.

1. There are Muslims who just quote many extracts of the Quran and the hadith without going any further in the hearts, when Allah himself reminded us of the people of the Aad and Thamud and told us what do you think will happen to wrongdoers.

2. Those Muslims are happy to quote that no one knows when the Day of Judgement is making the same mistake as atheists (were they say they don't know when they going to die, they have one life so they don't wish to care), they don't want to think about it, neither do they HEED the signs of the Day of Judgement.

Then as above you have the nerve to say Mankind has much to go through (in the above quote)-were have you evidence for this claim???? I will never listen to that as this is not what Allah and the Prophets have taught us. If you think that we have much to go through then state what it is. As going through the Major signs of the Day of Judgement is no light thing and what you seem to say is that at the moment they have nothing to worry about.

There are Muslims who even said to me that the 2004 tsunami wasn't a sign of the Day of Judgement, that their teachers do not go on about the last day (and I'm thinking how can you talk about Islam without mentioning even in speeches were they talk even hours without mentioning how its related to the last day. When the PROPHETS themselves reminded people constantly (and extensively written in the Quran). These very Muslims then decide to talk about living in this world and telling us to join them in state building, acting as the jews have done were they treated the Prophets to help them for the life of this world rather then the next. I remove myself from these Muslims, and guard myself from them, may Allah save me from them, when they go on about conflicts when a lot of people are astray taking drugs etc (it isn't that Allah will be protecting ie Iran, Pakistan for example that will end this war it is rather that Allah will not be giving any more time for the many people living in UK, US, Brazil etc to repent as THERE IS ALWAYS A LIMIT, on how long evil people continue (and just because the Muslim countries are not doing very well-that doesn't make any difference that Allah will not allow them to continue - which is why the Muslims should not be rejoicing for any victories, when the Major signs of the Day of Judgement is upon us.

This is no different to speaking to those (whether educated to those who have do not spend their way in Islam, just following it like a tradition passed down ie celebrate Eid) who spend their lives looking for the life of this world, we work, have pastimes, BUT when we mention the signs of the Day of Judgement, those people lightly brush it aside using excuses like there is always war in this world -and people wonder why even the people did not want to listen to the Prophets when they mentioned about the end times?? They are not comfortable with incorporating remembering the Day of Judgement, heeding the signs-which means that you need to sort yourselves out, and that you need to make amendments to yourselves, as a Muslims would never have a problem with heeding the signs of the Day of Judgement, it s a part of off, so when we hear of it, we are not going to treat it as something strange, something far away, something that doesn't make us comfortable with the knowledge and trust with Allah that his promise is true. Muslims do not need to take seriously when you decide to take heeding the signs of the Day of Judgement seriously (as they could be die in that state of not heeding). I don't have to ignore the signs, because you decide to not heed, and listen and say that you rather think of other matters for the life of this world.

If thou couldst see when they are set before the Fire and say: Oh, would that we might return! Then would we not deny the revelations of our Lord but we would be of the believers! 6:27

Nay, but that hath become clear unto them which before they used to hide. And if they were sent back they would return unto that which they are forbidden. Lo! they are liars. 6:28

Naught is the life of the world save a pastime and a spot. Better far is the abode of the Hereafter for those who keep their duty (to Allah). Have ye then no sense? 6:32


Islam is not about not choosing to talk about something because your not comfortable talking about it as your used to thinking that you will be living similar as you are now (which is even were the Christians were thinking that the Dajjal will be coming now whilst they live as they are with no drought and with the Jews who now say that there is no Hell)

God did not tell us to worry about the Day of Judgement when you get there, obviously as you would not have prepared for it. (we do not wish to speak like the atheists who say if we find out there is a heaven then we will worry about it then, or try and enter heaven).

God, the Prophets did not tell us to worry about the Major signs of the Day of Judgement when it happens as you have not prepared yourself for them.

God did not say (and neither did any Prophets), that heeding the signs of the Day of Judgement should be placed at the back of your minds as you might die before then (as then how will anyone be warned??) We are blessed to have a Prophet as if we couldn't rely on anyone else telling us of this Day. Neither were we told that the life of this world would take a higher priority to heeding the signs of that save that which is in worship to Allah. There is no comfort that anyone can offer, that we already have from Allah that his promise is true, there is nothing that anyone can say which would dismiss me, or make me think lightly of what Allah and the Prophets have mentioned. Allahu Akbar!
Reply

WarriorforMarie
09-04-2013, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
I disagree and here's why;-

1. Others have provided you with good points and even reference to material-have you read them yet??

2. The only reason that I can understand is typically people brush off "religion" as unimportant, but if you wish to understand Islamic state then you have to LEARN ABOUT ISLAM FIRST. AS when we govern it is to do with the Islamic laws and understanding. So of course you can't learn about one without learning the other FIRST. Please read the Quran and the hadiths and then ask questions.

3. Parliament would be even more different if they were doing what your doing, leaders need to be quick in understanding the situation and in what others are saying, when they are debating can you imagine them, if they sat there asking the same question again and again and saying that I don't understand. WHEN YOU don't understand you HAVE to give the reasons on why you don't -you have not- ie such and such stated this I don't accept this because such and such a reason. (just making the same blanket statement). Regardless you have to read up on the religion of Islam if you want to understand why we do the things we do.

4. Quoting China just shows that you need to learn about Islam, as we are never going to listen to anyone above the Prophets, ie China is NOT better then Prophet Jesus, Muhammad, Noah, Saleh, Moses peace be upon them. The Prophets were the most intelligent and the best of Men, and whatever you say will NEVER be taken above what the messengers of Allah have given us.

5. It has already been mentioned that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him when he comes back -he is not going to be "voted" in to being our leader. Neither would the population need to scrutinize what decisions he is making-AS he is a Prophet from God himself, we place our trust in him completely and as he follows the law of God, ie no idol worship etc, the population benefits as of course they would not be oppressed. Which of course, you can't tell me that the majority of the population in "democratic" countries have a say so in everything, were they are told that they are at war when they never even been to Iran and have never said anything to them, letting politicians vote is not a democracy its is no difference in letting others make the decisions on your behalf. Even in the UK the vote to strike Syria was too close to going the other way.

You are living a lie if you think that "democracy" exists and if you want to have a comparison regarding Islamic rule of law then you would need to quite frankly compare it to your own ideal way of how a country should be run as the western countries are a poor example of democracy were they throw out petitions on death penalty in the UK. So called freedom means nothing when your critical of soldiers who refuse to fight (are they saying that a Man can't change his mind?? And would have to stick to it even if he dies?? Therefore not being able to make a decision on his own life?? In Islam we don't fight against those Muslims who refuse to fight but only fight against those who fight us.

Please stop turning threads into how Islamic states are run, when you need to read about Islam first, in order for you to understand why we do things the way we do.

1. Others have only been able to refer me to some books about Sharia. They have been unable to actually describe the attributes of an Islamic State. In fact, it is gradually becoming clear they probably can not even define what a state is.

2. Well, I don't think religion is unimportant. I think it is important for study. Not because I think that they are right that God exists, I don't. If there is a God there is no way to know for sure until we die and if God exists he does no effect political matters in this world. It IS important that people believe in God though. If you know what religious people want you can better use them for political purposes.

3. Ok, if you say so.

4. Well, these men may or may not be prophets. I do not know. But they certainly are not useful as guides for how to achieve 10% GDP growth

5. I'm sorry but I do not believe that Jesus (if he ever actually existed) is going to come back. I'm sorry if I misunderstand, but it seems like you are suggesting that instead of building up their own states...Muslim countries should instead content themselves for Jesus to return?

If democracy doesn't exist, what form of government do the UK and the United States use? How would you scientifically measure democracy? I have also seen you mention this death penalty petition in other threads. Can you provide me with a link to what you are specifically talking about? I have looked it up online but Google sends back results on multiple pages over the course of several years and I want to make sure I'm reading about what you are exactly talking about.
Reply

WarriorforMarie
09-04-2013, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
No Prophet came into this world and said that we have to build a "state"
This is actually true. It would have to be since the modern state system (with centralization of power, end of feudalism, and the development of the contemporary, sophisticate bureacracy) did not come into existence until the Thirty Years War in Europe and the Peach of Westphalia.

As for the rest of what you wrote. Sure. If Jesus were to actually appear and all of these other supernatural events occurred then perhaps the state will cease to existence. However, it seems highly unlikely. In my own country of the United States there are people who like to proclaim that Jesus is coming back and will soon return. They care nothing for the condition of the state and think that praying and worshiping God is the only thing that needs to be done. They should not be listened to. The United State's top priority should be to improve its infastructure, reogranize its finances, and eventually begin paying down its debt. If all we do is waste our time praying and waiting for Jesus to return we will find ourselves thirty years from now ridiculously behind China.
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M.I.A.
09-04-2013, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by WarriorforMarie
4. Well, these men may or may not be prophets. I do not know. But they certainly are not useful as guides for how to achieve 10% GDP growth
...that is very ironic.

the feeding of people and establishing of nations.


i cant fault it.

unless you are on the wrong side of it.


unfortunately no welfare system at present, preserves morality and moral within the foundations of the system.


which in itself, is disturbing.

because the modern prophets dont need teaching.



and to even to imply a grand conspiracy is beyond me.



...goes against the whole "god" thing.


i was watching a documentary on nissan the other day, very apt.
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Signor
09-04-2013, 06:48 PM
:sl: Sister h-n

It seems you are too quick to jump the gun without any reason.I am wondering for how long you have been studying Signs of End of Times and how much you know so far about this subject(this is how much its plainly obvious).All I've said is based on the knowledge which I got from Authentic Hadith collection and Salafs(pious predecessors) like Ibn Kathir etc and I've no problem backing my statement.Just to clear this out,My post compromises of two things:First statement lies on my knowledge from sources I stated before,Secondly,The point which I tried to make is The knowledge about the final hour resides with Allah only.Yes,its His Prophet(PBUH) who prophecies all those things and He(SWT) created this scheme of things But this doesn't had any effect on his ability to destroy all with just "kun". To cut it short He(SWT) is not bound nor handcuffed,despite of all those predictions which Muslims believed to be true.

Regards
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h-n
09-04-2013, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by WarriorforMarie
This is actually true. It would have to be since the modern state system (with centralization of power, end of feudalism, and the development of the contemporary, sophisticate bureacracy) did not come into existence until the Thirty Years War in Europe and the Peach of Westphalia.

As for the rest of what you wrote. Sure. If Jesus were to actually appear and all of these other supernatural events occurred then perhaps the state will cease to existence. However, it seems highly unlikely. In my own country of the United States there are people who like to proclaim that Jesus is coming back and will soon return. They care nothing for the condition of the state and think that praying and worshiping God is the only thing that needs to be done. They should not be listened to. The United State's top priority should be to improve its infastructure, reogranize its finances, and eventually begin paying down its debt. If all we do is waste our time praying and waiting for Jesus to return we will find ourselves thirty years from now ridiculously behind China.
It "wouldn't have to be, if you actually read all the posts, King David and Solomon peace be upon him did reign -but that was at a time when people accepted law from the one God. It is not a goal to build a state, as the goal is for people is to be Muslims-when AFTER people repent, they desire to be in a Muslim state.

With your other points it is on a clear search under death penalty rejected UK;-

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions?state=rejected

A
lso what you are saying is completely wrong and just shows that you have come here with a biased view -which isn't going to help when learning about different ways that people do things as your already saying that your right, even stating that the religious people don't do anything-WHEN they have contributed, ie we work, we care for our parents, our children, we help other people, we even have pastimes, but as I am on an Islamic forum here to talk about Islam, you can appreciate that your not going to see the rest of my life, one of the worst things I see is IDLE talk, and I do not wish to waste people's time as they only have a short time in this world, so when I say I'm going to talk about Islam, I will, if I'm going to talk about cooking, health etc I will.

Even I would never say that the Christians have not contributed to the countries, even we don't say that the wrongdoers at the time of Prophet Noah peace be upon him never cared about anyone, of course they did but only for the life of this world, the goal is to be appreciated rather then looking to appreciate the one God, even the Christians talk about being on the receiving end of love instead of God being the centre, which is why we even get some fractions like the Jehovah's witness say that there will be many a number who will be ruling with the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him over earth (which of course in Islam is not true as the centre of attention is the one God, that no angel fails to look at).

There is no doubt that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him will return, but that will be after the countries have collapsed as they won't even be able to survive the droughts and the test of the Dajjal anyway even if they lasted a bit longer. It is a serious issue, which is why people like me don't accept anyone's version of events ie just peaceful living in this world-were they actually telling people its about living here (when its not). If they can't heed the signs of the Day of Judgement after all that's happened in this world, then they aren't going to take it seriously until it happens, and people actually wonder why the people at the time of Pharoah ignored the plagues of Egypt (people are really doing no different-I mean how worse does this world have to get for them to take it seriously). This is what this thread is more about too. So as you can appreciate people like to talk about this has its serious for them- so its completely wrong of you to talk about Islamic states again and again.

I again disagree and you have proven you could not understand a basic example that I have provided for you of the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him over and over again. That was an excellent example of why we don't accept democracy (instead you take it as I'm telling you to believe in the Prophet's return only), even though I talked about democracy and even on another thread. So you have SHOWN that your not a good student. In Islam we not only give to charity, we worship Allah, but we live our whole lives in Islam, even people using up their life savings to go to Mecca. Allah does not have democracy, he is God, who sustains everything, neither do we have democracy with the Prophets, or the companions of the Prophet-so that was the example that I have given you and why as Muslims we don't have a problem accepting leadership without question of religious people. As the west try and think it is a source of embarrassment and something to try and use against us by saying that we don't treat people well-when this is not the case.

People used to carve their homes out of the mountains and had the same arrogance that you proclaim that nothing will happen, Allah destroyed the people of Aad and Thamud. Your politicians cannot create the food and water that you take. They think with their technology that they were different, more sophisticated then people in the past when they have SHOWN time and time again that they are responding the same way as them ie rejecting the words of the Prophets, accepting homosexuality, ignoring the warnings of the Day of Judgement. It isn't correct to make it a life's work to make profit, what and be like banks -were they never say they have enough profit (and be content as the religious people), but they say that they need to make more and more profit beating the previous years', you talk about the US, people don't want to all accept the one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell, accept homosexuality, accept having sexual relationships outside of marriage, bomb other countries killing so many people, and you honestly think you have a chance?? It is no different to a wife who poisons her husband and just planning to live happily ever after-its actually incredulous that people can be that inconsiderate, ungrateful. What planet are you on?? Who ever taught you that you can disregard the evil and that your going to continue regardless as people who even murder their parents??

You reject the truth, that is what we actually accept in Islam. This is why the one God sent the Prophets and even they told people to repent to the one God on the first day of their Prophethood-the Prophet Noah peace be upon him wouldn't be telling them to worship the one God if they couldn't recognise the truth, the Prophets didn't set up classrooms to get the people who are even illiterate to make them have lectures to get them to "see" the truth. They reject the truth, it is rather the media of today which is making it acceptable for people to say they don't recognise, just as they are trying to do with homosexuality-make it acceptable for people.

You are NOT better then the Prophet Moses peace be upon him that we are going to listen to you over him,

You are NOT better then the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him that we are going to listen to you over him,

You are NOT better then the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him that we are going to listen to you over him.

As the above no need to try and say the right thing by saying that you accept religion for people, but don't agree with it yourself, we don't need appeasing, and we don't need the support of non-Muslims, frankly we don't need the support of anyone who is on the path of Hell-fire. Your only showing that if you were there at the time of the Prophet Noah peace be upon him you would have been taken in the flood.
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WarriorforMarie
09-05-2013, 07:00 PM
Concerning the petition. From the main site that you showed me there was this:

"e-petitions are an easy, personal way for you to influence government and Parliament in the UK. You can create an e-petition about anything that the government is responsible for and if it gets at least 100,000 signatures, it will be considered for debate in the House of Commons. You can find more information about how the House of Commons deals with e-petitions on the..."

So a petition must have at least 100,000 signatures (the death penalty petition only had a quarter of that amount) for it to even be considered for debate.

Defore Democracy can be considered to exist we must have measurable variables that can be used to determine if it reaches a minimum procedural threshold. What minimum procedures would you say have to be met for a state to be considered a "democray?"

As for the rest of what you wrote. It isn't that I think that religious people don't do anything. In my country there are many people from many religious who are industrious and beneficial. However, when some individuals try to make education less about science and math and more about Christianity they are sabotaging our country. The students in China receive a proper science education, one not infused with fantasy.

As for whether you want to spend your life waiting for the return of Jesus that is you decision. One thing that is at least a little comforting when I think about the fate of my beloved. I use to worry that she would suffer in a place of suffering as suggested by several religions. However, so far I have not been able to find any evidence of this. It is reassuring to hear stories about how Jesus is coming back (assuming he ever existed) because they help to undermine the idea that these faiths are correct. For the remainder of my life I will see people who will be saying that the end is near, the day of judgment is coming, Jesus is coming back, etc. etc. They will often imply that there are signs indicating that these things are going to happen soon. Years will go by. Then decades and these events will not happen.
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h-n
09-05-2013, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by WarriorforMarie
Concerning the petition. From the main site that you showed me there was this:

"e-petitions are an easy, personal way for you to influence government and Parliament in the UK. You can create an e-petition about anything that the government is responsible for and if it gets at least 100,000 signatures, it will be considered for debate in the House of Commons. You can find more information about how the House of Commons deals with e-petitions on the..."

So a petition must have at least 100,000 signatures (the death penalty petition only had a quarter of that amount) for it to even be considered for debate.

Defore Democracy can be considered to exist we must have measurable variables that can be used to determine if it reaches a minimum procedural threshold. What minimum procedures would you say have to be met for a state to be considered a "democray?"

As for the rest of what you wrote. It isn't that I think that religious people don't do anything. In my country there are many people from many religious who are industrious and beneficial. However, when some individuals try to make education less about science and math and more about Christianity they are sabotaging our country. The students in China receive a proper science education, one not infused with fantasy.

As for whether you want to spend your life waiting for the return of Jesus that is you decision. One thing that is at least a little comforting when I think about the fate of my beloved. I use to worry that she would suffer in a place of suffering as suggested by several religions. However, so far I have not been able to find any evidence of this. It is reassuring to hear stories about how Jesus is coming back (assuming he ever existed) because they help to undermine the idea that these faiths are correct. For the remainder of my life I will see people who will be saying that the end is near, the day of judgment is coming, Jesus is coming back, etc. etc. They will often imply that there are signs indicating that these things are going to happen soon. Years will go by. Then decades and these events will not happen.
That was just one of the petitions done via internet and they have kept on readmitting them when they had the full signatures in the past. But the point remains it is very popular and still they won't bring it back.

Democracy is for everyone to have a say in everything ie not voting for politicians to make the decision making for you ie the voting on if they go to war, it no difference to a dictatorship, your just voting for someone to take the decision out of your hands.

I don't believe that religious people have sabotaged efforts for people to gain an education (agree they do influence on how people should live ie the Amish community -and I do agree that people should learn about the world and take advantage of education, but others can argue it is no different to allowing children to just think about film, popstar careers, the influence of growing up in gang related areas -were the influence people to get involved into something that is not productive).

No one is just sitting around waiting for the arrival of the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him (and no matter when he is going to come, just like the Day of Judgement, we need to be aware, Allah allows many people to be born and they have the opportunity of earning their rewards in Paradise -so with Allah's mercy he not only allowed the people of Aad and Thamud to be tested, but we got an excellent opportunity to also earn a reward and be happy about it on the Day of Judgement), and you would need to wait for the Day of Judgement if your accusing people of just doing that. You talk about continuing to think about state building, no one around the world is going to say that I many countries don't good things about them, and God himself has given the US so much, they have many variety of landscape environments and wildlife SO for the US to bomb and kill civilians abroad is a bad thing, its embarrassing after all that they already have. So for many people around the world they think of the US no differently to those who kill for personal gain, women who kill their husbands to take advantage of life insurance policy, a son killing his parents to inherit the property etc-SO to many people the US is no different, even talking about making your country "great" even at a time whilst the US is still killing people! This is bizarre, its your choice to believe that things will continue, whilst your sitting on a sinking ship. Its actually a joke that people like that think they are going to have more and more and more-when hasn't God provided so much already?? People would be in uproar that murderer thinks he can just make a life for himself.

Whilst we worship Allah, remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell, we heed the signs of the Day of Judgement, so the difference also is that you think things will continue, but I do not, I support education, and would not go around trying to stop people from doing certain things as Allah himself allows them to do it-as its their tests. I am confident on how I treat others including non-Muslims (which they can vouchsafe), you came on an Islamic website and of course I'm here to talk about it, not lie and not pick and choose ie like some people who are uncomfortable with talking about Hell (that even the Jews say it doesn't exist-when they do agree that the Jews in the past believed in it). Unto you your way and unto me mine, my advice to anyone is to stay away from government conflicts as we are responsible for our own souls on the Day of Judgement, so its important not to be led by others.

Anyway, thanks for your time, I don't always wish to spend lots of time on forums, so whatever you do try and get to the points early on, clarify what you know and why you don't understand such and such as we don't always know how long we are in this world (which is why I asked for you to stay in one thread so people can see what was said and were your at). This is what I always try and avoid and so my posts are to the point. :)
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