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Nur Student
09-12-2013, 11:56 AM
Terry Jones Arrested in Mulberry Before Burning Qurans

MULBERRY | Polk County sheriff's deputies arrested Terry Jones on Wednesday as he was driving to a park to burn nearly 3,000 Qurans.

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Jones, 61, and Wayne Sapp Jr., 44, an associate pastor at Jones' church, Dove World Outreach Center in Manatee County, were arrested on several charges, including possessing fuel in an improper container, which is a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison, according to Sheriff's Office reports.

Jones had been planning since July to burn the Muslim holy books in Polk County, though he only recently planned to relocate the event to Loyce E. Harpe Park near Mulberry. He said the burning was to be a memorial to Americans who died during the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, with one book for each of the 2,998 victims.

But late Tuesday, the county denied his request to use the park, in part saying his application came too late and in part because no burning is allowed in the park. Jones was subsequently told by law enforcement that he would be arrested if he entered the park with any kind of incendiary equipment.

Once they got to Mulberry on Wednesday afternoon, Jones and a handful of supporters stopped at a McDonald's restaurant parking lot to ready their mobile barbecue grill. He and Sapp doused the Qurans with kerosene, then the restaurant's manager told them they would have to leave.

They did, with plans to park along the side of West Carter Road near the park's entrance and burn the Qurans there.

Jones said he believed he would be arrested if he went inside the park.


http://www.theledger.com/article/201...news/130919800
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'Abd Al-Maajid
09-12-2013, 02:39 PM
I find it amusing that he was arrested not because it would be offending for Muslims to burn Koran but he was arrested for possessing fuel and his application came late and burning in park was not allowed. (or did the news article did not mention that he was arrested because it would hurt Muslims' sentiments)
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sister herb
09-12-2013, 04:51 PM
Maybe hurting the Muslims' sentiments is not a crime in there - I don´t know they laws.

In my country he might get prosecution by kind of public act as "agitation against an ethnic group".
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Independent
09-12-2013, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd Al-Maajid
I find it amusing that he was arrested not because it would be offending for Muslims to burn Koran but he was arrested for possessing fuel and his application came late and burning in park was not allowed. (or did the news article did not mention that he was arrested because it would hurt Muslims' sentiments)
On the basis of this article, this is rather clever isn't it? The fuel charge carries a possible 5 year sentence. It's like getting Al Capone on tax evasion.
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Nur Student
09-12-2013, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
In my country he might get prosecution by kind of public act as "agitation against an ethnic group".
Here in the US, the concept of freedom, including the freedom of speech and what its limits should be, has long been a hot topic of debate. And when it is something related to Islam, people and especially government officials are usually biased, though they claim to be very democratic and secular.

May Allah help us get over this saddening situation soon.
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observer
09-12-2013, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by Nur Student


Here in the US, the concept of freedom, including the freedom of speech and what its limits should be, has long been a hot topic of debate. And when it is something related to Islam, people and especially government officials are usually biased, though they claim to be very democratic and secular..

I think this kind of shows that it's not biased, doesn't it? Technically, if I understand the constitution correctly, he should be allowed to do this. But they made sure he didn't via the back door.

In any case, any publicity given to fools like this is too much. If nobody reports on him then he's just a sad idiot burning books on his own. Get him in the press and he's either the devil incarnate or a free speech champion.
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جوري
09-12-2013, 09:06 PM
I'd think a loose canon like terry does a great disservice to Christianity- the stealth crusaders would probably want him to shut his bazoo under whatever pretense so they can go crusade in a stealthy way :D
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crimsontide06
09-12-2013, 11:53 PM
I saw the article on yahoo and stupidly read the comments expecting people to agree that he is crazy...wow I was wrong. Lots of horrible things said that made me sad about how ignorant people think of Islam...oh well, can't fix stupid.
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Ahmad H
09-13-2013, 03:04 AM
People like Terry Jones cannot do a single thing to stop the progress of Islam. If he burns Qur'ans, then we Muslims will spread thousands more. The internet is rife with Qur'ans and anyone can get them. He can't stop this faith from spreading when Allah wants it to spread. I'm not worried at all by what he is doing.

Think about it. He is sinning on himself. His burning Qur'ans affects nothing but him and those who support it.
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Nur Student
09-13-2013, 05:06 AM
Originally Posted by observer
I think this kind of shows that it's not biased, doesn't it? Technically, if I understand the constitution correctly, he should be allowed to do this. But they made sure he didn't via the back door.
For this specific case, I partially agree with you. But, what I was talking about was more general. For instance, it is not rare that a Muslimah will be mistreated in her company and even laid off just because she is wearing hijab. Many converts, less or more, have the experience of getting mistreated and sometimes abandoned by their closest friends and family members after embracing Islam. You can read some of their posts in this forum. In New York, if you're a Muslim, you're a potential criminal in the eyes of the police officers. And so on...

As for the case of Terry Jones, I don't believe that he will get any punishment. I will be waiting for the result. I hope I will be wrong. It is probably just a precocious act to hinder him from burning the Qur'an and thus not to further make fury the Islamic world after the serious tensions in Syria and Egypt. US is losing her credibility among the Muslim world and they are trying to restore it.

As for the bias, it is there and it doesn't seem in any way to end easily.
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Independent
09-13-2013, 08:38 AM
Originally Posted by Nur Student
For instance, it is not rare that a Muslimah will be mistreated in her company and even laid off just because she is wearing hijab. Many converts, less or more, have the experience of getting mistreated and sometimes abandoned by their closest friends and family members after embracing Islam.
This is wrong and sad. But what would happen in the reverse case - if a Muslimah in a Muslim country converted to Christianity? How do you think she would be treated and would that be fair?
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Nur Student
09-13-2013, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
This is wrong and sad. But what would happen in the reverse case - if a Muslimah in a Muslim country converted to Christianity? How do you think she would be treated and would that be fair?
She will not be treated good, you are right. However, you are missing an important point that makes the two situations different.

When a Christian becomes Muslim, he/she becomes more pious and increases his/her faith in and love for Jesus and God. However, when (if) a Muslim converts to Christianity or another religion, he/she has to deny Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and all his teachings first, which means that she is not getting close to God but actually diverting from religion and God. Why do I say this? Because, the essence of all the Abrahamic religions are the same (except for the concept of trinity in Christianity).

She (or he) cannot be like the irreligious people of the West, either. For even if they deny one prophet, they can believe in others. If they do not know the prophets, they may believe in God. And even if they do not know God, they may possess certain personal qualities through which they find fulfillment. But if a Muslim denies the Prophet of the End of Time (PBUH), who was the final and greatest of the prophets and whose religion and cause are universal, and if she abandons his religion, she will accept no other prophet and perhaps not even God. For she knows all the prophets and God and all perfections through the Prophet of the End of Time (PBUH); they can have no place in her heart without him. It is for this reason that since early times people have entered Islam from all other religions, but no Muslim has become a true Jew, Magian, or Christian in preference to Islam, through reasoned argument and conclusive evidence.
(If the uneducated embrace another religion without evidence in blind imitation, it has no bearing on this matter.) Muslims who abandon their religion rather become irreligious, their characters are corrupted, and they become harmful for the country and nation.

That is why when a person converts to Islam, she is willing to talk and discuss the matters of religion. However, when a Muslim diverts from Islam, talking about Islam or another religion is the final thing she would like to do.

To summarize, we Muslims, who are students of the Qur'an, follow proof; we approach the truths of belief through reason, thought, and our hearts. We do not abandon proof in favor of blind obedience and imitation of the clergy like some adherents of other religions.
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Mustafa2012
09-13-2013, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by crimsontide06
I saw the article on yahoo and stupidly read the comments expecting people to agree that he is crazy...wow I was wrong. Lots of horrible things said that made me sad about how ignorant people think of Islam...oh well, can't fix stupid.
Yeah, I got a shock myself recently when I read some of the negative comments of the general public re: the recent mosque attacks in the UK. The way they respond reflects the type of society we live in. Seems like all the media brainwashing has been working quite well.
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Mustafa2012
09-13-2013, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmad H
People like Terry Jones cannot do a single thing to stop the progress of Islam. If he burns Qur'ans, then we Muslims will spread thousands more. The internet is rife with Qur'ans and anyone can get them. He can't stop this faith from spreading when Allah wants it to spread. I'm not worried at all by what he is doing.

Think about it. He is sinning on himself. His burning Qur'aans affects nothing but him and those who support it.
Allaah :arabic2: has promised in the Qur'aan that He is The One that sent it down to us and He is The One who will protect it.


Verily It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).

(15:6) (interpretation of the meaning)


I heard Shaykh Khalid Yaseen say once that even if all the Qur'aans in the world were destroyed, we would still be able to replace them because the Qur'aan has been memorized by thousands of people all over the world and is alive in the hearts of people. It is a living miracle and is something that is unique to our religion. That is something they can never destroy.

Maybe Terry Jones hasn't been getting enough attention recently so this is way of getting attention.

I've noticed this new trend...

Whenever someone, whether it's a celebrity or a nobody wants a bit of attention, they find some way of mocking Islam. That's the only way they'll get a bit of media coverage. So Islam has become a tool for gaining negative publicity for some sad people out there.

Why don't they just do something worthy of getting the publicity they want rather than resort to using a religion which they don't even believe in?
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Independent
09-13-2013, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Nur Student
She will not be treated good, you are right. However, you are missing an important point that makes the two situations different.
I understand why you say this as a devout Muslim. However, you have to consider that other people may believe as sincerely and passionately in their religion as you do in yours.

In effect, you are asking them to accept the precedence of Islam over their religions, even though they aren't Muslims. Surely they are no more likely to accept that than you are in reverse.

The net effect of what you are saying is that it becomes ok for Muslims to treat say, a convert to Christianity badly, but not ok to do exactly the same treatment to a Muslim convert.

In other words, it's not actually the bad treatment you object to, but who is on the receiving end (Muslim or other religion).

If you lay aside for a moment which religion is which - just call them A and B - you're saying that A can treat B badly, but not in reverse, which is a strange place to end up and not likely to seem fair to any non Muslim, whatever their faith.
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aamirsaab
09-13-2013, 04:56 PM
EDIT:

Apologies, the site I quoted is actually entirely satirical. Apologies again.
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Muhammad
09-13-2013, 05:09 PM
Greetings Independent,

Can we please not turn this thread into another Islam and Apostasy thread, which has been discussed many times on this forum already. I do find it disappointing that even in a thread such as this, you find the opportunity to shift the focus on a perceived unfairness in Islam and Muslims, forgetting that the topic at hand is pointing to something quite the opposite.

Nur Student mentioned in his post that simply for wearing a Hijab, Muslimahs are mistreated. However, Muslims are not allowed to mistreat non-Muslims simply for being non-Muslims. This has nothing to do with converting from one religion to another, and the conclusion of 'A being able to treat B badly but not the reverse' is totally flawed. Islam teaches kindness and good treatment to non-Muslims also, and history speaks for itself where non-Muslims have lived in harmony under Muslim rule for centuries. Non-Muslims living under an Islamic State are under a covenant of peace and protection - please see the following link.

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...08-dhimmi.html


Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

[Qur'an 60: 8-9]
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GodIsAll
09-13-2013, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by جوري
I'd think a loose canon like terry does a great disservice to Christianity- the stealth crusaders would probably want him to shut his bazoo under whatever pretense so they can go crusade in a stealthy way :D
Valid point!

He's in the same neighborhood as those Westboro people: If a mosquito bites someone, who's fault is it? The mosquito's? Their's for not wearing repellent? God's for creating them? Noooooooo....

"It's the American government's fault! By allowing homosexuality to exist in America, God is punishing us with mosquito bites! God bless mosquitoes and avian flu! Grrrr...I am so angry I could go protest the funeral of someone who has absolutely nothing to do with anything!!!!!"

Christians in America want nothing to do with them. Anyone else want to claim them?
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Signor
09-13-2013, 05:47 PM
How Terry is viewed by his own fellow Chrisitians

How pastor Terry Jones was expelled from a church in Germany for creating 'a climate of control and fear'?

Stephen Baar, one of the current pastors of the Christian Community of Cologne church in west Germany, told news agency DPA Jones expected 'blind obedience' from those who came to worship.
In addition to forbidding free expression, there were a number of 'financial irregularities' when Jones and his wife Sylvia were in charge.


Andrew Schafer, an official responsible for monitoring churches in the region of Cologne said people who were ministered by Jones are still in therapy for 'spiritual abuse'.


Speaking to news website Spiegel Online, he also claimed the pastor taught a 'distinct demonology', telling congregation members to beat their children with a rod


'Terry Jones appears to have a delusional personality,' he added
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-church.html
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