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glo
12-17-2013, 11:23 AM
The Muslim Council of Britain has put out this message for Christmas.
What are your thoughts and comments?



http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?opti...=82%3Amcb-news
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Muslim Woman
12-17-2013, 12:24 PM
Hello glo


I m surprised to read the message . Even if it's not ' haram ' for Muslims, surely we are not ' encouraged ' to celebrate it . So , how come a Muslim org can ask Muslims ' to put up the Christmas tree ? Don't understand it .
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glo
12-17-2013, 12:45 PM
I don't know. I assume that it is a response to recent (right or wrong) concerns that in a politically correct/multi-cultural society people should not make references to Christmas; that messages should read 'Season's Greetings' rather than 'Merry Christmas' and that Christmas as a festival is being eroded.

I suppose it is the MCB's way of saying 'as Muslims we do respect that you have your Christmas traditions and if anybody is trying to ban Christmas, it isn't us'.

I just wondered what people here thought about that.
If you could ban Christmas, would you want to?
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greenhill
12-17-2013, 12:55 PM
What to say and how to say it?

What it says is true, it is trying to post a friendly message. Christmas trees etc are symbolic in creating ambience or environment. But Xmas is not a religious event for muslims.

Jesus was a prophet very much respected and very special too, but was sent to people of a different time.

We don't hate Xmas, I don't think, but are curious as it originated from a pagan practice of celebration. And Jesus wasn't born that day, so it really does not hold any special significance to muslims.

It is just PR to say that we do not hate Christians and their ways? That we are not out to kill the infidels...:D

Peace :shade:

Merry Christmas Glo!
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glo
12-17-2013, 01:05 PM
Thank you, greenhill.
I don't think the MCB is suggesting that Christmas has or should have any significance for Muslims or that Muslims should take part in it.

I agree with you that it is probably intended as a message to reassure those who celebrate Christmas.
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sister herb
12-17-2013, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Hello glo


I m surprised to read the message . Even if it's not ' haram ' for Muslims, surely we are not ' encouraged ' to celebrate it . So , how come a Muslim org can ask Muslims ' to put up the Christmas tree ? Don't understand it .
Salam alaykum

I don´t think they encourage muslims "to put up the Christmas tree" but their Christian neighbors instead.

I think message is good - it shows tolerance and understanding for others way to believe (and celebrate their holidays).

Maybe that is some kind of answer to actions of those some young muslim men in UK whose patroled on the streets and tried to prevent non-muslims to drink alcohol or be without covering they heads.

I mean this one: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...attacks-london
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Jedi_Mindset
12-17-2013, 02:36 PM
Its due some recent propaganda that muslims were trying to ban christmas which is unbelieveable nonsense as i have never encountered a muslim who complained about this. Sadly, some ignorants believe this. Hence i think they put out this message :)

I cant find the article where it was mentioned that muslims were trying to ban christmas however it was in dutch.
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sister herb
12-17-2013, 02:54 PM
Something like this hoax? http://www.hoax-slayer.com/christmas...se-story.shtml
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Jedi_Mindset
12-17-2013, 03:01 PM
^

Yep, good find :)
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greenhill
12-17-2013, 03:13 PM
Just read the 'good find'.... any similarities in things said is purely coincidental. ;D
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sister herb
12-17-2013, 04:09 PM
The last line:

"All I can say is that the people who believe these absurd stories mustn't get out much."

:playing: Thats true.
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Muslim Woman
12-17-2013, 04:46 PM
:wa:

Originally Posted by sister herb
Salam alaykum

I don´t think they encourage muslims "to put up the Christmas tree" but their Christian neighbors instead.

lol got the message now correctly :hiding:


I had no idea about the context . Message is good. To avoid confusion , they may include a title : To our Christians neighbours :a message from Muslims ......something like this.
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glo
12-17-2013, 05:09 PM
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts - especially in such a light-hearted way.

I'm at home with a heavy cold, so you cheered me up! :statisfie
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Karl
12-17-2013, 10:34 PM
Christmas has gotten way out of control. They are promoting it (the merchants I mean) as far back as October. It has gotten so commercial and sickly Americanised. The pope should do something about it, maybe have a crusade against money grubbing merchants. The pious will just go to midnight mass it's not a circus, get rid of the blasphemy.
I think the rot set in when one of the popes allowed musical instruments to be used in sacred music, only voice was allowed before then and only in perfect consonance, plainchant. Another thing is that most of the people celebrating Christmas are not Christians but atheists. I would like it better if Holy days were taken seriously, Christmas has become a joke. Yeah and I know Jesus wasn't born in December and the calendar is up the pole because the year starts in January but December is the tenth month by name. The year is supposed to start in March well that's what the Romans did. Tax time is in March so some things didn't change.
Yeah ban commercial Christmas, it drives me nuts.
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Scimitar
12-17-2013, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I don't know. I assume that it is a response to recent (right or wrong) concerns that in a politically correct/multi-cultural society people should not make references to Christmas; that messages should read 'Season's Greetings' rather than 'Merry Christmas' and that Christmas as a festival is being eroded.

I suppose it is the MCB's way of saying 'as Muslims we do respect that you have your Christmas traditions and if anybody is trying to ban Christmas, it isn't us'.

I just wondered what people here thought about that.
If you could ban Christmas, would you want to?
This may come as a shock and surprise for many to read here, coz it's a Muslim writing this... but I am not about to mince my words.

When I was a kid, the festive season would see streets decorated with baubles, trees, lights and all the trappings we expect from the Christmas season... to be honest, back then - the festive cheer was something that kept people jolly. And that has to be a good thing. It may surprise and shock many of you to hear me say the following. Contrast to today, and I see hardly any homes having a tree up, or decorating their windows in order to brighten up the London gloom during the Christmas holidays... instead, I see people using Christmas as an excuse to get drunk, do drugs, fornicate/adultery and worse... by worse, I do mean WORSE.

What it boils down to, IMO - is the governments social engineering of following generations. Christmas is not really celebrated anymore is it? I don't see it really celebrated like it used to be. On my road, we used to have every other house or more - decorating the windows etc... today, only one house on the street is decorated....

....SO really... the question I ask is "who is trying to ban Christmas?" - my answer is, the government. They engineered an entire generation to not "believe" in God, by propagating bad science and worse theory on TV and radio for decades - they don't have to say "We want to ban Christmas" no... they just need for you to believe it is nonsense, andthat's exactly what happened - the next generation believed it was all nonsense, Christianity, Islam, Judaism - etc etc etc... and so, they became atheists...

... As for the MCB :D those guys have a sense of humour about it. I see like this: MCB is trying to wake up the REAL Christians to show them that, something very fishy has been going on... for decades.



Scimi

EDIT: afterthought:

The commercialisation of Christmas is something that can also be seen to blame. Here I was thinking Christmas presents were for the kids, and the adults knew better... these days, even adults are like children, complaining that so and so didnt get them a xmas pressie... :D

generation fail.

I used to like Christmas time, believe it or not. SImply because when I was a kid, people passed by and smiled during Christmas time, and wished you a merry Christmas - even knowing you weren't a Christian - I appreciated the sentiment to be fair... nowadays people will still say "merry Christmas" but not like they used to... how times have changed eh?

Don't get me started on Eid :D

Scimi
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ayan333
12-17-2013, 11:30 PM
Hello there!

Glo hope you feel better!

i hope I dont offend anyone with my statements. Christmas is the celebration of Jesus being God or the son of God. I think this message is a clear violation of the Islamic belief and Tawheed ( oneness of Allah). I think its a desperate attempt (not the first) to show others that we are "tolerant" of others.

It is perfectly fine to dismiss the claims that Muslims are trying to ban christmas in the UK (or whatever non Islamic country) BUT there are certainly other ways that this can be done without compromising our faith and core beliefs.

We are NOT allowed to wish other people "Merry christmas"...thats like saying "I approve of you worshiping Jesus, enjoy it"

I think its really sad that we have to compromise our faith. Are we that desperate to accumulate? Culturally thats ok at times, but religiously? Never.

Some might say that christmas is not a religious holiday? Bogus. It is certainly one of the biggest Christian holidays if not second to Easter.

Just my thoughts and from a Islamic standpoint it is not ok to wish others a merry Christmas. There is plenty of Daleel for it as well.

~Ayan
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sister herb
12-17-2013, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Yeah ban commercial Christmas, it drives me nuts.
I believe that many Christians will agree you with this.
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Scimitar
12-17-2013, 11:43 PM
@ayan333

Actually, it's the celebration of his birth... but even then, the date is all wrong, and consolidated with the winter solstice - ie: Sun Worship...

but you gotta ask, just because Christians celebrate Christmas on the winter solstice - does that make them sun worshippers? even if the Roman Church and every denomination of Christianity also celebrates that day?

I hardly doubt that makes them sun worshippers - coz when they worship, they go to MASS, and recite from the bible(s) and not some text talking of Sun Worship.

Even in Islam, we are taught that we are to be judged according to intention and action... so why have one standard for ourselves and another for others? It's clearly a hypocrisy.

I don't celebrate Christmas - but I grew up in a land where it was celebrated a lot - and I've seen it change from celebration to commercial conquest - and even that is hardly for the sake of Sun Worship.

Its for the sake of monetary gain - another type of fake god. Money.

Scimi

EDIT: I'm guessing if Christmas is Haraam - then so must Milad un Nabi be too, right? :D ooh, advocacy is so exciting :D
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ayan333
12-18-2013, 12:03 AM
You have taken my words out of content.

The entire celebration is on the belief that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God or the son of God so regardless of what is being celebrated the celebration is haram SO anything that has to do with it needs to be avoided.

1. Judge by intention? Totally irrelevant. What is the intention got to do with it if the action itself is completely contradicting the basic belief of Tawheed? Its like saying go ahead and worship jesus my dear neighbor (when I believe that My lord an d your Lord is displeased with this and that Jesus will also deny your worshipping of him).The issue here isnt if Muslims should/can celebrate it (thats pretty obvious that we cant) but rather the issue is if we should promote it or encourage others to celebrate it.

2. You are going on a tangent with the seasons and Roman gods so I will just leave that there.

3.I've lived in America for 21 years (Im 22 years old) and all my neighbors have been christians. Ive seen the bright lights and the big air filled snowman. Our neighbors know and respect us and never have we said Merry Christmas to them. There is fine line that should not and cant not be crossed. I dont see why there is a need to say this. Surely there are other ways of showing respect

3. Hypocrisy? No sir, I think its hypocritical to wish others a merry Christmas knowingly.And I personally believe celebrating Prophet Mohamed's (peace and blessings be upon him) birthday to be a innovation and not part of the Deen. He didnt celebrate it nor did ANY of his companions or the 3 generations after him. For those who do celebrate it, clearly they arent
worshipping him.

Let me ask you this sir, do you think Allah is pleased with us encouraging or wishing others a merry Christmas.Do you think the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would have done it? Did he wish any of the Christians or Jews a happy holiday?

I am NOT in any way or shape against being tolerant. WE dont live in a Muslim run country and thus we dont have the right to ban Christmas or any other religious holiday. We should be good to our neighbors, Muslim or not and this is what Islam encourages without compromising your deen. And Allah knows best.
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Jedi_Mindset
12-18-2013, 12:16 AM
Yes, but there are other ways to make advice, instead you are pushing the christians further with these kind of posts. And btw, under muslim rule the christians will be allowed to celebrate their festivies, so do the pagans and jews. We are not encouraging them to celebrate it, we just leave them alone in this case. No one is wishing them 'merry christmas' or anything else.

The first steps of da'wah is to reach a common ground first.
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Scimitar
12-18-2013, 12:20 AM
what he said :)

for the record ayan333 - I didn't "take your words out of context" - I just recorrected you on a fundamental point.

THhis is the point I am making as a correction to your post - Christmas is the celebration of the birth of the messiah

It is not the celebration of a son of god. The fact remains that Isa AS brithday is unanimously celebrated on the same day all over the world, bit not all Christian denominations believe that he was son of God. Period. It would help if you knew of the nuances which separate Christians into their sects - same way us Muslims are also separated into sects.

Scimi
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ayan333
12-18-2013, 02:36 AM
Common ground by compromising? Thats what this counsil is doing. لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

The card Glo put up is definitely suggesting that Islam is totally fine with it.

Maybe my words sound a bit harsh (cyber) but I still believe that it shouldnt be encouraged. And yes someone did wish someone a Merry christmas which is why I made that point. (Read prior posts.)

Again, my point was that it shouldnt be encouraged. Its better to be safe then sorry especially when it comes to Deen. You dont have to rain on their parade but to wish them a happy celebration when you know that it is displeasing to Allah, is just wrong.

Scimi
I do know the different Christian denominations which is why I said either/or.

And regardless, the celebration is one that Allah is Indeed displeased with. It doesnt matter if its his birthday or not, the fact is they worship him, either by the belief that he is the son of god or god himself. It did not originate as a cultural holiday, its a religious one...unless im mistaken. And if he isnt worshipped then I must be just be really mistaken. But im pretty sure that he is worshipped which is why I im even writing all this.


Again, I apologize if I have come across as rude but I just dont sugar coat anything. And sometimes plp are just too sensitive.

May Allah grant us all success.

Signing out now, I havnt been on here for a couple years, glad things are still moving along.

Good day.
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faithandpeace
12-18-2013, 03:13 AM
Assalamu alaikum. I see this public message as potential kufr (disbelief). A Muslim is within his rights to indicate that non-Muslims have a right to practice their religion yet what this appears to be doing is encouraging non-Muslims to practice a religion other than Islam. Until this organization satisfactorily clarifies this statement in line with Islamic principles, Muslims should reject the credibility of both the message and the organization that produced it. Islam is not a game and I don't think we as Muslims should be taking it lightly when "Islamic" organizations appear to compromise Islamic beliefs just to appease non-believers. Christmas contains a variety of forms of shirk. Muslims promoting others to celebrate a holiday containing shirk is encouraging shirk. Shirk is kufr and when a Muslim does it they risk becoming a murtad. We need to stop watering down our deen just to appear less threatening to non-Muslims.
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glo
12-18-2013, 06:24 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
Christmas has gotten way out of control.
Yeah ban commercial Christmas, it drives me nuts.
Originally Posted by Scimitar

The commercialisation of Christmas is something that can also be seen to blame. Here I was thinking Christmas presents were for the kids, and the adults knew better... these days, even adults are like children, complaining that so and so didnt get them a xmas pressie... :D
I hear ya', brothers. And I totally agree!

Every year I wish that Christmas was just a quiet religious affair for people who want to go to church to celebrate the birth of Jesus. But sadly it has become so much more than that ...

However, if I'm honest I think at least some of that is to do with Christianity hijacking what was originally a pagan festival. That's what contributed to people celebrating the festival for all kinds of reasons other than the Christian one.
There's a lesson to learn there!! ^o)

Did you hear about the clergy you was invited into a school recently to speak to the children about Christmas and got into trouble for daring to tell them that Santa was based on a real-life 4th century saint (St Nicholaus).
The headlines in the tabloids read "Vicar tells children as young as five that Father Christmas doesn't exist" and "SANTA KILLER - Grinch priest makes children weep"



Originally Posted by Scimitar
Christmas is the celebration of the birth of the messiah
Scimi, I like what you said about Christmas celebrating the birth of the Messiah.
I have always thought that for that reason Muslims should have very little problem with Christmas (as opposed to Easter, of course)
Of course, over the years Muslims have told me otherwise ... but I wonder about it every year.

At least I know we share the joy in the fact that the Messiah come into the world and that he will come again. :statisfie
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Abz2000
12-18-2013, 06:42 AM
Salamz, it's obvious the queen and her athest friends in Downing Street, thread needle street, and the whitehouse want to ban anything with any connotations of faith and turn their countries into "secular" / "neutered" countries (as demonstrated in France (school hijabs and crosses) and uk (queen's christmas kjv speech - faith out-sports in) California's church of satan, and hasina's "thear ij no relizion in bhangladhesh" statements.

So what better way to omit the mention of anything relating to faith than to blame it on the people of God they feel most intimidated by and further reap political dirty dividends while causing division?

Lol check out YouTube "msnbc one nation under God" omission and the complaints it drew.

Also George orwell's prediction in 1984 60+ years ago. Poor guy got arrested for not finding anything other than "god" to rhyme in his poem.

Anyways, that mcb message reeks of inferiority complex and an outward display of fear and submission to atheist/satanist propaganda.
They've often played the apologetic, so eager to please, yes man role in the recent years.

Maybe next year they'll have a dazzlingly bright tree on top of their office just to project the "moderate and inclusive" image they seek.

I believe it would've been better if they hadn't spent thousands on a stupid useless p.r leaflet showing such weakness, and instead given a more "here's where we stand, read the book of Allah for proof if you like" invitation.

Christmas is a good time for Muslims to attack atheist ideology in countries which claim to be Christian.


20 Jun 2011 - The video of the kids saying the allegiance goes from "one nation" ... to expunge God from our national pledge of allegiance. ... It doesn't suprise me that MSNBC left out "under God" in ...


الَّذينَ أُخرِجوا مِن دِيٰرِهِم بِغَيرِ حَقٍّ إِلّا أَن يَقولوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ۗ وَلَولا دَفعُ اللَّهِ النّاسَ بَعضَهُم بِبَعضٍ لَهُدِّمَت صَوٰمِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوٰتٌ وَمَسٰجِدُ يُذكَرُ فيهَا اسمُ اللَّهِ كَثيرًا ۗ وَلَيَنصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَن يَنصُرُهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِىٌّ عَزيزٌ

English-YusufAli translation
______________________________

(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, \"our Lord is Allah\".
Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).

Oh Allah, please destroy and frustrate the navish tricks of those who abuse and harass us in kafir countries, then persecute, murder and torture us via their proxy munafiq tyrants in Muslim countries to which we emigrate just to get away from them and practice our faith without let or hinder.

A good time to watch the lion the witch and the wardrobe, remember, it's almost 100 years since khilafah and it's still snowing.
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observer
12-18-2013, 08:49 AM
I'm an atheist and I love Christmas! Yes, people can go overboard but that can happen with anything. Yes, companies try and ruin it by making it start early every year but Christmas is what we make it.

Think about it, at no other time of year do so many people make such an effort to be with family and friends. It's easy to say "Well, it shouldn't be like that" but with families spread out around countries (and further) it's difficult to all get together. Christmas reminds us that we should try.

Any festival which concentrates on family and making ourselves happy must be good!

And I really don't understand those who say a muslim shouldn't say "merry Christmas" to someone. It doesn't mean you condone it, or think Jesus is the son of god - it just means "enjoy your special time".
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sister herb
12-18-2013, 09:31 AM
What came to mind from this thread; as Christmas has became more and more commercial holiday, we muslims should be careful that our holidays wouldn´t get similar destiny. Where I live is only tiny islamic community but you others whose live in islamic countries or countries where muslim population is larger, have you found that similar could happens (or has already happened) in our religion? Does companies try to change our holidays like "buy more and more special foods, gifts and decorations"- festivals?
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angelix
12-18-2013, 09:50 AM
i am surprised when reading this
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Muhaba
12-18-2013, 11:36 AM
No, it is not right to celebrate Christmas or any other unislamic religious holiday. First of all, we don't even celebrate Prophet Muhammad (SAW) birthday and doing so is considered a bida' (innovation) so how can it be encouraged to celebrate another Prophet's birthday? Second, we have no proof that Christmas is in fact Jesus' birthday. Third, celebrating it would put adoration for Christian customs, especially in children who are very easily affected by such things. We the Muslims have our own unique identity and holidays and it is not right to engage in any activity that weaks the Muslim identity. It's bad enough that all over the muslim world, even in shopping centers owned by muslims, Christmas trees and Christmas decorations are placed for sale to nonmuslims, so much so that there seem to be more Christmas related items in shopping centers than there were eid related ones during the eid holidays! This will definitely affect young minds. Surely, during eid nonmuslim shopping malls in nonmuslim countries didn't have on display eid related decorations all over. then why should there be Christmas related decorations and large christmas trees on display in muslim shopping centers in muslim countries?
If nonmuslims aren't celebrating muslim holidays then why are muslims being encouraged to celebrate Christian holidays?
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Muhaba
12-18-2013, 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by observer
I'm an atheist and I love Christmas! Yes, people can go overboard but that can happen with anything. Yes, companies try and ruin it by making it start early every year but Christmas is what we make it.

Think about it, at no other time of year do so many people make such an effort to be with family and friends. It's easy to say "Well, it shouldn't be like that" but with families spread out around countries (and further) it's difficult to all get together. Christmas reminds us that we should try.

Any festival which concentrates on family and making ourselves happy must be good!

And I really don't understand those who say a muslim shouldn't say "merry Christmas" to someone. It doesn't mean you condone it, or think Jesus is the son of god - it just means "enjoy your special time".
Have you said 'eid mubarak' to anyone (in real life? If not, then please don't say that muslims should go around saying 'merry Christmas.' It makes you into a hypocrite.
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Independent
12-18-2013, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by Dreamin
Have you said 'eid mubarak' to anyone (in real life? If not, then please don't say that muslims should go around saying 'merry Christmas.' It makes you into a hypocrite.
If you are a Muslim living in a Christian country, you can't help but be aware of Christmas.

If you a Christian living in a Muslim country, you can't help but notice Eid.

Less 'hypocrisy'. More 'demography'.
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Muhaba
12-18-2013, 11:57 AM
^so you haven't. Did you greet any members here with eid Mubarak during eid holiday on here?
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Independent
12-18-2013, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Dreamin
^so you haven't. Did you greet any members here with eid Mubarak during eid holiday on here?
You have changed the subject. An online forum is not a country and it has different conventions. For instance, when they are online many people seem to feel it's ok to be far ruder than they are in real life.

I can't remember exactly - was there a thread where people wished each other Happy Eid? If so, a very small percentage of the membership did so, not including me.
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Muhaba
12-18-2013, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
If you are a Muslim living in a Christian country, you can't help but be aware of Christmas.

If you a Christian living in a Muslim country, you can't help but notice Eid.

Less 'hypocrisy'. More 'demography'.
I didn't ask you whether you were aware of eid. I asked whether you greeted muslims (or even nonmuslims) with the eid greetings. If you don't and then still expect muslims to greet muslims or nonmuslims with the Christian holiday greetings, that makes you a hypocrite.
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Muhaba
12-18-2013, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
You have changed the subject. An online forum is not a country and it has different conventions. For instance, when they are online many people seem to feel it's ok to be far ruder than they are in real life.

I can't remember exactly - was there a thread where people wished each other Happy Eid? If so, a very small percentage of the membership did so, not including me.
I didn't change the subject at all. but you tried to. see my post above.

You didn't even notice that there was a thread with eid greetings?!! I'll bet you didn't even notice when there was an eid holiday. There were two eid holidays about 3 months apart. Do you know anything about the eid holidays and why and when they are celebrated? Considering you spend so much time on this forum it's strange you don't try to learn about these things and then expect muslims to learn about and celebrate Christmas! Such double standards amaze me.
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Independent
12-18-2013, 12:19 PM
Originally Posted by Dreamin
I didn't ask you whether you were aware of eid. I asked whether you greeted muslims (or even nonmuslims) with the eid greetings. If you don't and then still expect muslims to greet muslims or nonmuslims with the Christian holiday greetings, that makes you a hypocrite.
a) I only became aware of the festival since joining this forum. And, having not lived in Muslim country, I'm still not sure of whether people greet each other in the street in the same way as people do for Christmas.
b) I have recently moved to a new country where as yet I haven't met any Muslims to wish them Happy Eid, Happy Christmas or even Happy Monday. But thanks for asking.
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glo
12-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Independent, the usual greeting at Eid is "Eid Mubarak". (Or Ramadan Mubarak during Ramadan or Jummah Mubarak on Fridays)

Whenever I greet my Muslims neighbours with any of these they always respond with pleasant surprise and gratitude. That alone is a good enough reason to greet people on their special occasions - to share the joy and to show solidarity and unity.

It's a no-brainer really if you want to build communities. :statisfie
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Independent
12-18-2013, 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by Dreamin
You didn't even notice that there was a thread with eid greetings?!! I'll bet you didn't even notice when there was an eid holiday. There were two eid holidays about 3 months apart. Do you know anything about the eid holidays and why and when they are celebrated? Considering you spend so much time on this forum it's strange you don't try to learn about these things and then expect muslims to learn about and celebrate Christmas! Such double standards amaze me.
Just noticed your double post before my last reply.

You really are determined to take objection to, and indeed to be objectionable, about anything and everything. I don't care who learns about Christmas, it wasn't my question. In fact I personally don't like anniversaries of any kind and I am notorious for forgetting everybody's birthday including my own.

But Christians in Christian countries are no more 'hypocrites' for being unaware of Eid than Muslims in Muslim countries are for knowing little about Christmas. That's really all i have to say. Not very complicated, not worth the excitable response, and not worth talking about any further. Although you probably will.
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Muhaba
12-18-2013, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
a) I only became aware of the festival since joining this forum. And, having not lived in Muslim country, I'm still not sure of whether people greet each other in the street in the same way as people do for Christmas.
b) I have recently moved to a new country where as yet I haven't met any Muslims to wish them Happy Eid, Happy Christmas or even Happy Monday. But thanks for asking.
Well, it would be courteous to greet Muslims on Muslim holidays, especially when you interact with Muslims here, before you try to make Muslims celebrate Christian holidays and greet Christians with 'merry christmas'. If you aren't aware of Muslim holidays or greetings, then you could do a google search of Muslim holidays and greetings and then greet Muslims at the time of the Muslim holidays. This way you would be extending a hand of friendliness. If you simply come out and say 'hey muslims, you should celebrate Christmas with us and greet us on christmas' without having the courtesy to learn about muslim holidays and greet muslims on muslim holidays first, then don't be surprised if you get a defensive reaction.
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ardianto
12-18-2013, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Where I live is only tiny islamic community but you others whose live in islamic countries or countries where muslim population is larger, have you found that similar could happens (or has already happened) in our religion?
Eid sale? Eid promo?. Yes!
Does companies try to change our holidays like "buy more and more special foods, gifts and decorations"- festivals?
If the companies offer Eid sale or Eid promo, it's because demand from consumers is high. Muslims consumers want to celebrate Eid with new goods, like new clothes, new furniture, even new car!. Companies just respond this demand. Without offer "buy more!" consumers will still buy more.

Not different than Christmas sale or Christmas promo.
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glo
12-18-2013, 01:12 PM
Dreamin, I think it is only natural that we want to share our festivals with our friends and neighbours.
I have wonderful Muslim neighbours - two women and two young boys.
We have exchanged gifts, food and greetings for Eid and Christmas for years. Why shouldn't we? Isn't that a neighbourly thing to do?

One thing I really love about Muslims is their generosity and hospitality. I recall several occasions when I had to visit Muslim families (I work in a community for adults with learning disabilities) during Ramadan and was offered food - despite the fact that they were all fasting.
I always found that profoundly humbling and beautiful.

If it is part of your religion to share your blessings with non-Muslims - especially during your festivals, why would you not expect the same from your Christian friends and neighbours?
If I invited you to share food with me at Christmas (providing it was halal), would you join me?
If I gave you a gift, would you accept it?


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greenhill
12-18-2013, 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by ayan333
but I still believe that it shouldnt be encouraged. And yes someone did wish someone a Merry christmas which is why I made that point. (Read prior posts.)
I did.

As you believe it should not be encouraged, I believe I am not wrong to wish them. What my intention was only Allah knows (perhaps more so than I) but it is definitely nothing to do with my faith on that matter.

I live in a multi cultural society where people of all kinds wish everyone else. It does not in anyway mean that I believe in Jesus as the son of god and in the Trinity or anything just because I wished them Merry Xmas. It really means nothing except a respect for their Holy day as much as I would like them to respect my Holy day(s) when it comes round. Many a times, friends from different religious backgrounds wish me Happy Eid, and some even partake in the ceremonies and being charitable. It is normal then to return these kind gestures.

Yes, I found the 'poster' rather surprising and after so many years and Xmas's only now I am made to aware of this sentiment. It makes me think. Do we need to be so petty? Do we need to find a point just to be different?

Peace :shade:
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sister herb
12-18-2013, 01:35 PM
^^ Did someone mention an invitation for Christmas dinner? I am on my way already... as well as I have served dinner for my non-muslim friends during Eids and gave them a little gifts.

p.s. You are welcome too, Glo. :statisfie
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glo
12-18-2013, 01:38 PM
You people are making me so happy!
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observer
12-18-2013, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Dreamin
Have you said 'eid mubarak' to anyone (in real life? If not, then please don't say that muslims should go around saying 'merry Christmas.' It makes you into a hypocrite.

Of course I have! I've had many sweet treats from muslims at Eid too (always a good thing!). Likewise, I think every Christian I know has done so as well - and is always happy to do so. I'm pretty sure the local churches where I lived sent Happy Eid messages too. Likewise Divali, Passover - whatever. If it's your religion's special time then good - enjoy it!

Saying "Eid Mubarak" or "Happy Christmas" is not at all condoning other beliefs or saying that you agree, it's literally just saying "I recognise that this is your special time - I hope you enjoy it!". How people make it out to be some sort of huge religious question just beggars belief! It's polite, nice. Nothing more.
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Muhammad
12-18-2013, 04:06 PM
Greetings,

We seem to have a thread on this every year. There have been plenty of discussions regarding congratulating non-Muslims on their festivals and the meaning behind Christmas. We do not need another debate.

Originally Posted by glo
Independent, the usual greeting at Eid is "Eid Mubarak". (Or Ramadan Mubarak during Ramadan or Jummah Mubarak on Fridays)

Whenever I greet my Muslims neighbours with any of these they always respond with pleasant surprise and gratitude. That alone is a good enough reason to greet people on their special occasions - to share the joy and to show solidarity and unity.

It's a no-brainer really if you want to build communities. :statisfie
Saying Jumu'ah Mubarak is not something we are recommended to do as a habit:
http://www.islamicboard.com/worship-...ml#post1588313

From the recent discussion on good works and religion, it is clear that you will have a very different view of celebrations. If one believes religion to be merely a label and that there is no correct way to worship God, there are no boundaries, no right or wrong. But it would be appreciated if respect was given to those who do follow a religion in seriousness, as they cannot be expected to transgress their boundaries. Their view of sharing the joy and expressing solidarity will not always be in line with others.



On the issue of greeting non-Muslims on their festivals, here is a reminder :ia::

Allah the Most High states,


And those who do not witness falsehood, and if they pass by some evil play or evil talk, they pass it by with dignity.18
We as Muslims should pass this festival by with dignity, refraining from the office parties’, Christmas celebrations, the exchange of gifts, and even exchanging Christmas greetings. There are a number of reasons for this; firstly, to become involved in a festival is to sanction the beliefs behind such a festival and as Muslims we are forbidden to sanction anything other than Islam. Just as we as Muslims distance ourselves from celebrations such as Diwali (Hinduism) and Hanukkah (Judaism), we must also do so with Christmas. By celebrating Christmas, not only do we sanction pagan and Christian practices, but we imply that the festival of polytheism is pleasing to us although Allah states,


This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.19
Secondly, Allah describes Christians as “those who went astray” in the opening chapter of the Qur’an, thus to celebrate something that is not even sanctioned in their religion is to imply that their straying is of no consequence. Thirdly, to take part in their festivities or to give greetings such as ‘merry/happy Christmas’ is to encourage and congratulate them in their actions instead of censuring them for their falsehood. This is in opposition to Qur’anic teachings whereby Allah states,


They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.20
Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour. Fear Allah, for Allah is strict in punishment.21
Muslims, by the grace of Allah, have been afforded a complete way of life which details that which is best and most beneficial for the entire human race...
Christmas, Muslims and the Paganisation of Christianity


Let us end with this:

There are many other and better ways where a believer can display his well-wishes towards his non-muslims friends, neighbors, colleagues, etc. by being kind, just, honest, and always truthful with them, giving them good advice, and being their sincere well-wisher at all times. If the believers strive with their good character and best manners as always befits a muslim, it would go a long way in promoting good cordial relations with their non-muslim brethren, rather than celebrating their pagan festivals with them.

Thread closed.
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