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sugaray21
12-28-2013, 11:04 PM
ISLAM AND EVOLUTION
1. Evolution

Believers in Islam tend to fall into two camps regarding the scientific theory of evolution:- Some reject it outright because they think it contradicts the Divine Creation theory in the Quran. Others do not see a contradiction because Allah could have created the laws and processes by which things evolve.

One of the arguments put forward by creationists is that if we have a complex ordered system, then there must be a creator. This is because particles can combine in a great number of ways, most of these produce disorder. For example, consider the bricks with which a house is made or the cells in the body. There would be nothing to hold them together and things would disintegrate again and recombine in one of an infinite number of ways. The likelihood of order coming out of this spontaneously and persisting is impossibly small.

The Evolutionists, however, tell us that we ought not to project our own ability to create on to the world. There is a distinction between the natural and the artificial, and science is interested in the natural. Complex order, they tell us, can come out of an accumulation of small ordered steps by chance, because each small step has a greater probability. But this does not impress the creationists because no such accumulation can occur if the combinations did not persist. This shows a cause and the operation of some law, not chance. The chance of a Law arising spontaneously is also nonsense. Indeed when we speak about chance, we are speaking about ignorance of the forces involved or the inability to calculate. If you throw dice, you cannot calculate all the forces that act on them to cause them to come to rest with a particular number uppermost. In any case, we know that the number of faces restricts the chances - 1 in 6 for a six sided dice, 1 in 8 for an eight sided one and so on.

On the other hand, the existence of several different possibilities allows flexibility and adaptability. It is a mark of intelligence. Variety exists because selection can be made according to changing circumstances. But each possibility requires causes to actualize it.

It can also be argued that what we see depends on our presuppositions, motives and actions (since these elicit reactions, which become data). This includes attitudes, and the concepts and techniques invented. If you start with the idea that the world is dead and there is no intelligence or consciousness except in man (how this can come about from nothing is a mystery) then you will seek and interpret and organize data accordingly. The conclusions are already in the premises selected and the kind of experiments conducted, even in the way concepts are defined. It is then a question of values and these must also be correct. The theories based on Chance are not useful to life. Rational human beings need "purpose" as much as "cause" and are an integral part of the processes of the world. Their need arises from this and their function demands that they see things from this point of view.
The Biological Theory of evolution attributes variation to chance mutations but it does require causes in the form of Cosmic and other rays and mutagenic chemicals. It also requires that selection by the environment should determine what survives and multiplies. Mutations and selection may also take place within the body itself owing to various stresses. All causal forces must ultimately come from the creative event, the Big Bang. The forces that cause mutations are an integral part of the Universe. Mutations are, therefore, inevitable. This event, the Big Bang, cannot be explained by any causes that exist within the Universe since it did not exist.

There is sufficient indication in the Quran that the Universe has evolved from an initial impulse and Allah does create, test, select and recreate. But the Quranic notion of causation differs from the Scientific one. The causes of phenomena are not so much prior in time at the same level as the effect but at a higher level. Thus the events on earth are caused by forces in the Solar System, particularly the Sun, and those at still higher levels, ultimately by Allah, the creator of the Laws and forces which cause things. A force or a law that controls it is, after all, no more or less mysterious than the Will of Allah.

Why make the distinction between the artificial and the natural at all? We know from experience that birds make nests and that human beings create cities and airplanes and so on. They do so because of natural laws operating in them. Creativity is a fact of observation.

The following verses indicate that Evolution is also taught by the Quran:-
"Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and He is Able to do all things. Who has created life and death that He may try you which of you is the best in conduct; and He is Mighty, the Forgiving." 67:1-2
"See they not how Allah produces creation, then reproduces it? Lo, for Allah that is easy. Say (O Muhammad): Travel in the land and see how He originated creation, then Allah brings forth the later growth. Lo, Allah is able to do all things." 29:19-20

"If He will He can be rid of you and bring instead of you some new creation. That is not a hard thing for Allah." 35:16-17
"Thy Lord is the Absolute, the Lord of Mercy. If He will, He can remove you and can cause what He will to follow after you, even as He raised you from the seed of other folk. Lo! that which ye are promised will surely come to pass, and ye cannot escape. Say ( O, Muhammad): O my people! Work according to your power. Lo! I too am working. Thus ye will come to know for which of us will be the happy sequel. Lo! The wrongdoers will not be successful" 6:134-136

"He is indeed successful who causes it (his soul) to grow, and he is indeed a failure who stunts it." 91:9-10
" ...and We made every living thing of water. Will they not then believe?" 21:30

"What ails you that you hope not towards Allah with dignity when he created you by stages? ........And Allah has caused you to grow as a growth from earth." 71:13-14

"He produces creation and then reproduces it, that He may reward those who believe and do good works with equity." 10:4 and 27:64
"And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the steadfast, who say, when misfortune strikes them: Lo! we are Allah's and verily , unto Him are We returning." 2:155-156

"Did you think that you would enter Paradise without Allah testing those of you who really strive, and those who are steadfast?" 3:142
"Ye shall travel from plane to plane."84:16

The method by which this evolution takes place is indicated by the following verses:-

"Allah it is who has created seven heavens, and of the earth similarly. The commandment comes down among them slowly, that you may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in knowledge." 65:12

"And there is not a thing but with Us are the stores thereof. And We send it not down save in appointed measure." 15:21

The Islamic point of view, based on Tawhid (the Principle of Unity) could be explained as follows:-

There is an original fundamental self-existing Unity, an Absolute X, referred to as Allah. This Ultimate Whole caused the arising of the Universe. We would have to say that it has Intention, there being nothing external to it. The Universe is a system S1, such that all parts are inter-dependent and affect each other. The whole is always independent and more than the sum of the parts. This is because it consists not only of parts and their interactions, but also of a pattern, structure or organization and some principle which maintains the integrity of the pattern.

The parts are also systems S2, and must adjust to S1, with respect to which it must find an equilibrium. Else there are tensions and suffering which may lead to the destruction of that system. An organism is also such a system and belongs to an ecological system in which the organisms are inter-dependent in a complex way. There is a dynamic balance with a degree of flexibility or tolerance, which allows changes to come about gradually. Any impulse coming from S1 into S2 will cause changes in it designed to remove the disturbance and restore equilibrium. As S2 also consists of parts, which are systems S3, then changes in S2 will cause changes in S3. And so on to S4, S5, S6 and S7. From this it follows that:-

(1) Existence is layered. It has levels. These are referred to as heavens.

(2) All things have a function with respect to a greater system, ultimately with X, the Absolute.

(3) Cause and Purpose are connected. The purpose is to adjust, to restore harmony.

(4) Changes and events are not merely driven by eternal forces, but also by the inner need of things to adjust. The capacity for adjustment can be defined as Intelligence. It is an attribute of all systems to various degrees. Given an object O in an environment E, an event is the result of an inner or inherent factor O' and the environmental factors E' and the relationship R between them.

(5) Change implies destruction of somethings and construction of others.

(6) There is ultimately a single force and this is defined as the Will, Word, or Command of Allah. This differentiates into all other forces as it percolates through the levels.

(7) The notion of "force" is a mystery since it refers to something that enables as opposed to something that is inert. In classical Western physics the world was regarded as dead and this inertia is called "mass". The notion of "matter" refers to this. So the existence of "change" or motion required the notion of "force". Here we see a triad:- inertia, change, force. Yet inertia opposes a force and is itself a force. Islam does not require the notion of matter. There are simply phenomena of various kinds and levels of vitality. If the original State of existence is regarded as zero or X', then creation consists of the arising of a pair of opposite forces +A and -A and this separation is achieved by a creative force *A which is also trying to recombine the two to restore X'. In fact, since all three forces coexist then reality taken as a whole always remains the same. It is only from the limited point of view that things are changing.

(8) These opposite forces not only cooperate in creating, but their balance may shift to and fro as in pendulums, or they may create cycles. Evolution and involution are also two processes that are interdependent but may also alternate. They are also illustrated in catabolism and anabolism, analysis and synthesis etc. Evolution is the result of a constant introduction of impulses from the higher into the lower system.

(9) Allah creates with "Truth". This refers to Order and what scientists call "information" which is the opposite of chaos or disorder. Evolution is an increase in Order and results from the introduction of order or truth into a system. It comes from above.
"Have they not pondered upon themselves? Allah created not the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them save with Truth and for a destined end." 30:8 and 38:28
"He has created the heavens and the earth with truth." 39:5
"We created not the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, save with truth, and for a term appointed." 46:3
"Allah it is who has created seven heavens, and of the earth similarly. The commandment comes down among them slowly, that you may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in knowledge." 65:12

(10) There is probably not much difference between the way evolution takes place in nature and the evolution of human artifacts such as airplanes. The latter takes place in the minds of inventors, while the former may be said to take place in a Universal mind. Another similitude could be the way iron filings take up the shape of a magnetic field which is itself invisible. But obviously these iron particles can "feel" it and organize themselves accordingly.
From the Islamic point of view, it could be argued that the cosmic radiation causing mutations are connected with the creation of the Universe itself. There is nothing accidental about them. Mutations are, therefore, inevitable. Mutations are acts of creation by Allah. But how these take place depends partly on the organism as a whole and partly on the germ cell in which the change takes place. Its nature dictates what changes it will tolerate. Since all the genes are also interdependent in an organism, the system itself will select which genes will operate and how. Then again the environment in which the organism exists is itself changed by the activity of the organism and it also selects and migrates to one suitable for itself. This must also be considered apart from the selective influence of the environment. Nor can we ignore the in-built inner urges of the organism, its self-preservative and sexual urges and urges to explore and dominate and the specific way these are channeled - e.g. what exactly it wants to eat or do.

Those who believe that the mind and consciousness is a function of the brain, also know that the brain is a complex electrical device. It is also known that this planet, and the Universe itself, is complex system with all kinds of electromagnetic forces connecting all parts and controlling the phenomena in the Universe. It is not, therefore, very difficult to see the Universe as a huge brain. We are certainly not consciousness of all the subtle forces and processes that take place in our surroundings and even within ourselves, but there must certainly be interactions between the human brain and body and the rest of the Universe. But as for consciousness, this appears to have something to do with some force beyond the electromagnetic, in the underlying quantum field.

The following points should also be considered:-

(1) There is not much difference between saying Allah created the Universe and saying Allah created the Laws by which the Universe arose. We know very well how we have arisen but this does not prevent us from acknowledging that Allah has created us.

(2) Allah creates and recreates (10:5,35). His creativity has not ended. Evolution is said to proceed by mutation and natural selection by the environment. To say that new species arise by mutation is to say that a creative act has taken place. Natural Selection is another way of saying Allah tests and selects.

(3) Allah created the heavens and earth in 6 Days (7:54). This refers to periods of time or Ages. This is because the Quran indicates that a day of God may be equal to 1000 years of man (32:5) or 50,000 years (70:4). Time is relative. It could be some other period.

(4) As the Quran affirms that the creation of the Universe has a purpose and a destined end (30:8) and that there is a time for everything (13:38), then it must have a direction of development.

(5) The whole of the universe and everything in it can also be regarded as an elaboration or actualization of the contents of a single creative act.
"Lo, We have created everything by measure. And Our Commandment is but one, as the twinkling of an eye." 55:49-50
"Allah it is who has created seven heavens, and of the earth similarly. The commandment comes down among them slowly, that you may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in knowledge." 65:12

(6) Stages of development are indicated by the following :-
"O mankind! If you are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then consider this : We created you out of dust, then out of a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, that We may make it clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterwards We bring you forth as infants, then gave you growth that you attain full strength. And among you there is he who dies young, and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knows naught. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it thrills and swells and puts forth every lovely kind. That is because Allah, He is the Truth. Lo! He quickens the dead, and Lo! He is able to do all things." 22:5-6
"We fashioned the thing which clings into a chewed lump of flesh and We fashioned the chewed flesh into bones and We clothed the bones with intact flesh. Then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the Perfect Creator." 23:14
"When He have created you in stages." 71:14

It is evident that though the stages of physical development of the individual are mentioned they are also symbols for spiritual evolution. Physical evolution can be seen as an effect or manifestation of spiritual evolution, or as a material actualization of a process which takes place in the spiritual realm.

But though the scientific idea of evolution (gradual development) is not incompatible with the teachings of the Quran, it has to be understood that the method, manner or means by which it takes place are not the same, nor is its significance. The idea that it takes place by chance and purposelessly cannot be considered in Islam for several reasons: -

Chance is not a cause and cannot have a direction and no value judgment about higher and lower stages can be associated with it. It cannot, therefore, have significance for human beings.

No dichotomy between mind and matter is admitted - we see physical signs in human behaviour and perceive a mind behind it. We do the same with respect to the Universe.

If evolution can produce a mind, then if we consider the totality of whatever existed before the Big Bang, in which the cause of the Big Bang also exists, there must have been an infinite time or Eternity within which such a Universal Mind would have arisen. The fact is that this Universe has many phenomena in it including matter, force, order, law, life, mind, intelligence, and consciousness. All these are potentialities within that original, fundamental Reality. It is also evident that how we perceive the world depends on the nature and capacity of the mind and we change the world through our minds.
_
The main criticisms of the scientific evolution theory are as follows:-

1. Experience shows that all things tend to degenerate. The Second Law of Thermodynamics requires that entropy (disorder) should always increase.

2. The Evolution theory requires that variations should be produced by random mutations by cosmic and other radiation or mutgenic chemicals, and the environment then selects because what is best adapted to it will survive and that which is not adapted will die out. Natural Selection can only operate after a suitable mutation has taken place. Most mutations, however, are destructive. This is because the organism is a balanced system in which all things are inter-dependant, and any change in it can disrupt this.

3. If we consider chance alone, then there are a much greater number of possible mutations than the one required to increase the efficiency or power. Mutations are reversible and can be undone.

4. A mutation to a gene will have multiple effects in the organism. Some of these may be harm full while others are beneficial. Some characteristics may arise which are unpredictable. The individual can only survive if there has been some kind of selection within the genome itself.

5. The fossil record does not show gradual changes but sudden jumps. The intermediate organisms which lead from one to the other are all missing. Such jumps indicate a great number of mutations taking place simultaneously as well as co-operatively. This is so extremely improbable that it is miraculous. Such events, however, have taken place many times.

6. An examination of organs such as eyes and wings shows that their functioning depends on a great number of separate features. They could not function if any of these were missing. Gradual development would mean intermediate stages that cannot function. Flying for instance requires not just wings but light bones a different skeletal, circulatory, respiratory and digestive system.

7. It is not a question of the survival of the fittest or strongest. Species live within an ecological system that consists of many interdependent species. It is not the case that the strongest will survive and multiply. A may eat B which eats C which eats D and so on to N which may eat A. If B is too successful in escaping A and catching C, then it will multiply, but A will starve and reduce in numbers. C will also reduce in numbers. This will affect the numbers of D, and, therefore, E and so on. It also means B has less to eat and will reduce in numbers. This will cause the numbers of A and C to rise again. Things are made more complex because each organism lives on more than one other organism and interacts with others in many other ways. Some co-operate directly or are indirectly dependent on what others produce or remove. So some kind of dynamic balance has to exist.

8. It is not always the case that more efficient characteristics have developed. Bipedalism is less efficient than quadrepedalism for escaping from predators or catching prey. The development of other characteristics may compensate. When herds formed, they protected certain weak members that were able to develop other characteristics that became useful later.

9. Biologists appear to ignore the fact that evolution requires organisms to have inbuilt urges for self-preservation and reproduction, the nature of which has not been explained. These are inner, not external causes. It is not merely connected with the structure of the organism because this merely has a channeling effect. The very matter of which the organism is made cannot be dead and inert.

10. The capacity for cognition of pain and pleasure also appears to have been ignored. It is not only characteristics which have a self-preservative or reproductive function. Since females tend to have a limited number of eggs and reproductive capacity but select from a wide variety of males, they can be attracted by what impresses them. This seems to be something having aesthetic appeal or certain skills which have nothing whatever to do with self-preservation or reproduction. Reproduction can be done by mating with any male. Bower birds build elaborate structures and patterns by gathering twigs, leaves, shells, bones and stones of various colours which they arrange in certain deliberate ways. These are meant to attract females with which they mate. The female selects the male whose display it prefers. But the male has no part in building the nest or bringing up the young. He is not selected for this ability. But though this has a sexual purpose, it is obvious that both male and female have an aesthetic sense and that the male has the ability to create art and knows what might attract the female.

11. When urges are recognized there only two are admitted, namely the self-preservative and the reproductive. The fact, however, is that much of the behaviour of organisms also requires a third urge to be present - a self-expansive or evolutional one. This shows itself in curiosity, the desire to know, explore and dominate. The organization of certain herds or packs of animals such as wolves does not allow all the members to reproduce but only the dominant ones. When male lions take over a family of females from another they kill the off springs of the former male. Females of most species tend to be selective as to which males they will mate with. Mere reproduction does not require this kind of behaviour. There is, therefore, an evolutional tendency built into organic life. This comes out much more clearly in human beings.

12. The existing organisms and fossils can be arranged in a sort of evolutional tree by the imagination. But no real causal connection has been experimentally established which determines the change of one species to another. For instance the method of extracting oxygen from water and from air is so different that it is not easy to explain how sea creatures turned into land creatures and vice versa. Similar remarks can be made about land creatures turning into flying creatures. It is possible to place the same species on different branches of the evolutionary tree.

13. The phrases "natural selection" and "survival of the fittest" are meaningless. An organism has a number of characteristics, and different organisms share the same characteristics while individuals of a species may be different because of different strengths of the same or other characteristics. Changes in the environment may refer to only specific features and these may be temporary. Weather and climate, for instance, may change from a drought to torrential rains to very windy. In each of these conditions different characteristics or the same characteristics with different strengths will give advantages or disadvantages irrespective of other characteristics which may be advantageous or disadvantageous in other conditions. Drought, for instance, may give plants with long roots an advantage irrespective of species. But when we get a season of torrential rains then in boggy conditions these plants may rot. But they may survive if the land is well drained. Some individuals may simply be luckier than others. It is perfectly possible that the same plant may simply multiply in one place instead of another. Or because it has grown large in wet conditions then a storm comes and blows it down. These environmental changes do not affect its genetics.

14. Adaptation to changed environments can take several different forms. Which direction it takes is indeterminate and unpredictable. It is only after adaptation has taken place then only do biologists speculate as to its causes. But they do not tell us why it was just this and not some other of numerous possible adaptations.

15. Organisms have some flexibility, adaptability and intelligence and can learn. The genetic inheritance does not create rigidity. It is for, instance, possible for the muscles of organisms to grow through exercises or for them to learn from experiences. Therefore, they can adapt to changes in the environment without there being any genetic change. But some individuals that have not learnt may suffer and die out. The effort of the organism, therefore, also has effects.

16. Not all the genes in an organism produce results in the adult. There are dormant and recessive genes, some of which enable others. Under changed conditions these may become active while others become dormant.

17. The genes are not the only thing which determine what the adult individual will be like. As the foetus grows its development is affected by its environment in the womb to different degrees. Among the factors in various organisms is temperature, electrical conditions and chemicals.

18. Blind chance cannot have purpose. Therefore, changes that depend on chance cannot be purposeful. The purpose is supplied by the organism. Quite often organs develop first before a function is found for them. Eyes and wings and a great part of the human brain are examples.

19. There is a mystery connected with the arising of life, similar to that connected with the arising of the material universe from nothing and the arising of consciousness. Life does not come spontaneously from matter today. There appears to be a life force with its own laws. The arising of all living things needs the previous existence of life. There are a number of vicious circles involved in life such that A and B are interdependent. Both must be formed perhaps by differentiation from a previous common process. But none can be found. For instance, the formation of DNA in genes needs proteins that need the DNA; nucleic acid requires enzymes that requires nucleic acids and so on. Life consists of a balance between a great many opposite processes, each of which is separately fatal for life or would make it ineffective - e.g. oxygen and sugar regulation, catabolism and anabolism. Limbs work because there are muscles that pull in opposite directions. Indeed, the oxygen in the atmosphere on which life depends is created by life itself.

20. From the numerous Nature programs on television and video tapes we see how ingeniously plants, birds and other animals have adapted themselves to their situation. How they build their nests and bring up their young. This does not seem like blind chance but intelligence at work. There is, in fact, not much difference between the way human intelligence works and adaptation takes place in nature, except that in the case of man it is internalised in the mind.

21. The word "random" or "chance" is used by biologists as if it could be a cause. But this is a contradiction. In fact, "chance" simply means that we are ignorant of the cause or do not possess the competence to determine or calculate the forces involved. We look for a cause when the chances of something occurring are greater or less than what we would expect from chance alone. This defines Causation. If you throw dice then you cannot know or calculate the forces acting on the dice, but the chances of any number coming up top depends on the number of sides. In a 6-sided object it is 1 in 6. In an 8-sided object it will be 1 in 8, provided all sides are equal. Thus we see that chance is restricted by the shape etc. of things.

22. Certain organs depend on the co-operation of several systems each of which must have had a separate line of development in stages that had no function e.g. various parts of the eye. This appears to indicate a goal.

23. Convergent evolution refers to the fact that the same organs have developed independently several times in different lines. e.g. wings, eyes, electrical organs. This shows some kind of necessity or goal, not blind chance.

24. The fossil record shows that there have been mass cataclysmic destruction of species from time to time due to external factors which affected the climate such as Volcanic action, ice ages, meteors, comets and changes in the radiation of the sun. It is these, which killed off dominant species allowing other species to multiply, differentiate and develop. There appear to be what might be called Days or Periods of Judgement and Resurrection associated with the evolution of life.

25. Evolution by chance alone requires an enormous amount of time. But the various methods of dating things give widely different results. Scientists select the ones that give the greater age, ignoring those that make the earth younger. This is not objective proof, but a case of seeing whatever conforms to their assumptions.

26. Amino acids must join up to form proteins releasing water. On land amino acids are broken up by ultraviolet rays. So it is assumed that they must be formed in the sea. But this is impossible because water prevents the formation of proteins (since their formation requires expulsion of water).

27. Even a small bacterium may have 600 different kinds of proteins in it. But a protein may consist of 400 amino acids, but only 20 different ones are used in all living things, out of a great number of possible ones. By the laws of chance alone, these 400 can occur in combinations far greater than the total number of estimated particles in the Universe (0.88x10^79). At one combination per second it will require more years than the estimated age of the Universe to go through all the possible combinations. All the correct combinations must not only be found but maintained.

28. There are two kinds of proteins known as L (left-handed) and R (right-handed) proteins. These are produced by chemical reactions in equal numbers. They have the same types and number of elements, but differ in structure, being mirror images of each other. Proteins use only left-handed amino acids and the nucleotides, the units of DNA use right-handed ones. How do living things recognise the difference? Obviously there is something more than chance at play here.

29. Proteins are responsible for all the processes in the body, but need DNA to produce them. But DNA needs proteins to produce it. These could not have arisen independently and then combined.

30. A DNA chain may consist of many thousands of nucleotides in a definite sequence. But nothing determines this sequence except the previous DNA in the parent cell. There are only four different kinds known as A C T G. If we consider only a chain of 1000, then by chance alone, this gives us 4^1000 (10^620) possible combinations. Thus an enormous number of intermediate species could have arisen but do not exist.

31. Cells consist not only of proteins but many other substances, including enzymes, sugars, DNA, RNA, and the relationship between them is not haphazard. They are all inter-dependant and work in co-operation. They cannot have come into existence independently. Factors causing chance alterations destroy the cells. The cell walls protect the inner processes from interference by chemicals outside, and they let in only certain chemicals while only letting out certain others. It is this that provides a particular internal environment that allows these life processes to go on, quite different from the external environment in which it cannot go on. But these cell walls cannot develop without the DNA that is the product of the special processes enabled by the cell wall.

32. All life depends ultimately on the sun's radiation from above acting on the materials of the earth below. But unless some creature is formed which has photosynthesis and can use this radiation to transform materials there cannot be life.

33. We see that there are levels of being:- (i) Minerals, (ii) Plants eat and convert minerals into plant substance, (iii) Animals eat plants and convert plant matter into animal matter, (iv) Human beings eat plants and animals and convert them into human substance or into things which are typically human e.g. the mind. It is a mistake to suppose that all these are the same. The mistake is made because in their studies scientists reduce all things to the dead mineral state. Thus though there are evolutional levels, the transition from one stage to the other presents us with problems which have not been solved. We could also describe one or more pre-mineral levels (pre-atomic and radiant), and some supra-human stages (perhaps jinn, angels, archangels).

34. Nature creates great variety so that a great number of different circumstances and changes can be adapted to. As conditions change different kinds of individuals can survive while others die out. The surviving ones reproduce and fill the gaps left. But they also produce variety. The species adapts. Thus, not the individuals but the greater whole to which it belongs, the species and beyond should be the focus of attention. If this variety had not existed no adaptation could have taken place. The causes for the arising of variety must pre-exist. Variety cannot be a result of adaptation.

35. All multi-cellular organisms contain within them and on them a great number of bacteria and viruses and they exist in an invisible sea of these micro-organisms which also connects all other organisms. The interaction between the organism and this organic sea is not fully known. There appears to be a transfer of genes from one species to another.

36. The scientific view is that things are as they are because conditions and laws happened to be correct for their arising. Had conditions been different then different organisms would have arisen. In all cases it would seem that the conditions were made right in order that the organisms should arise. In fact, there is much evidence that the organisms themselves tend to create the conditions suitable to themselves or migrate to them. They do not do this consciously, but the system as a whole has this effect. A system always tries to find an equilibrium within a greater system otherwise there is tension. This tension itself causes the seeking of equilibrium. He purpose and cause are the same. The organisms collectively produce the conditions. If they are adapted to the conditions then we could regard either as the cause or purpose of the other._

We must conclude that the Theory of Evolution as taught by science in the West is far from proven and consists mostly of speculation. It is presented as an alternative to the religious Theory of Creation, but is far less believable.
----------<O>----------

Hamid S. Aziz_
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sugaray21
12-28-2013, 11:06 PM
What are people's thoughts on this please?
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greenhill
12-29-2013, 01:34 AM
Interesting post. A bit long to be able to absorb all what is said..:exhausted

I'm not trained in this field but on the surface of what I have read, I can accept the points put across. This one, for example...

format_quote Originally Posted by sugaray21
27. Even a small bacterium may have 600 different kinds of proteins in it. But a protein may consist of 400 amino acids, but only 20 different ones are used in all living things, out of a great number of possible ones. By the laws of chance alone, these 400 can occur in combinations far greater than the total number of estimated particles in the Universe (0.88x10^79). At one combination per second it will require more years than the estimated age of the Universe to go through all the possible combinations. All the correct combinations must not only be found but maintained.
or

format_quote Originally Posted by sugaray21
5. The fossil record does not show gradual changes but sudden jumps. The intermediate organisms which lead from one to the other are all missing. Such jumps indicate a great number of mutations taking place simultaneously as well as co-operatively. This is so extremely improbable that it is miraculous. Such events, however, have taken place many times.
Which is what I was saying in the other post, that it seems TOE are 'theorizing' to fill the gaps of the fossil records.

There are other points but I will leave it for now..

Peace :shade:
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crimsontide06
12-29-2013, 03:05 AM
God did not just create things in one second like "Boom" it's there....God can do this but, earth...nature...science..etc... was all created by God to work in a certain way over time...I don't see how confusing that is to people. You want to say evolution...lol God CREATED evolution and how it works. Not a hard concept to understand.


On a side note; maybe this is why I have depression and frustrations about the world around me, I'm too intelligent...
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sugaray21
12-29-2013, 11:09 AM
Crimson Tide – I agree with you brother. But that’s only because we have looked at the whole thing in context with open hearts and open minds. People like Abdul hakim murad and hamza yusef spend years and years studying islam and still find something new about it every day. You have to avoid letting emotions get in the way of any kind of debate you have with muslims or non muslims or Buddhists or Christians or followers of greenpeace, it doesn’t matter who they are, we cannot let our egos or emotions get in the way of dialogue.
I don’t know your background, but I can speak as someone who came from a ‘godless’ background and ‘found god’ so to speak in islam, it can take years to even understand the concept of god, when you were previously an atheist. Atheists of no religion, who are living their lives according to the way they want to, rarely stumble upon this truth without sincere study and unwrapping all the false layers that surround islam and the concept of God – this takes time for some.
So my point is, remember not everyone has the time to do all the research and for atheists who, and I can speak as a previous atheist, we are brought up to believe that life is for living and for fun only and to do all the things you want to do. So we can’t expect people to want to relinquish all this in the space of 5 seconds, until they are presented with, and have a willingness to engage in serious contemplation and self reflection and external study..and how often does this happen truly..the masses are in a state of pure unadulterated indulgence....my point is, when you have everything you want in this life, when you are being spoon fed like a baby all your human desires, by the governments and corporations and banks which churn out the credit cards and loans which are buying your silence, and it is a tacit agreement between them and us (the consumer society) that as long as we are provided everything we want materially, (which is all that exists to many people, the material world), then we will not challenge or question or think outside of the box. This is a very very compelling and powerful thing. So to these people, an alternative way of viewing the world is not that obvious and actually, many many people subconsciously choose not to even entertain the thought that another very feasible and valid way of existence might be possible.
Hope that makes sense, my brother in Islam. Sorry I wrote it quite quickly, there may be typos ;-)
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sugaray21
01-01-2014, 08:23 PM
Im interested to get feedback on the above article from an atheist perspective please. .and anyone who is knowledgeable about theory of evolution, can you find anything wrong with this article I.e are there any points you disagree with?
Thanks.
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Independent
01-02-2014, 12:29 AM
Greetings sugaray21

There's a long thread already running on evolution so it's hard to have energy for this. But to say briefly, this article is a confusing mix of philosophy, theology and science that is difficult to untangle. It ranges far beyond evolution into Big Bang and the origin of the universe. There's just so much in here.

The author seems to be accepting that evolution happens but attributes it to a complex structure of interactions and rebalancing between the 'seven heavens' of creation. He uses this to replace any element of chance or natural selection, as described by TOE.

I also find the article is full of invalid premises such as this:

format_quote Originally Posted by sugaray21
Chance is not a cause and cannot have a direction and no value judgment about higher and lower stages can be associated with it. It cannot, therefore, have significance for human beings.
For me, the mix is extremely difficult to untangle.
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greenhill
01-02-2014, 02:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
There's a long thread already running on evolution so it's hard to have energy for this.
Point noted.

Peace :shade:
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sur
01-02-2014, 06:03 AM
Evolution did happen but it wasn't Darwinian style "undirected mutation-selection" process. Rather it was a "controlled" and "catalyzed" process.
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observer
01-02-2014, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sugaray21
Im interested to get feedback on the above article from an atheist perspective please. .and anyone who is knowledgeable about theory of evolution, can you find anything wrong with this article I.e are there any points you disagree with?
Thanks.
It's very long - but just quickly on his criticisms of evolution:

Point 1: The universe does tend towards entropy, but there are localised exceptions (gas forming into stars, people making bricks out of mud) which apparently see order arise from chaos. This does not disobey the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Point 2: Cosmic or other radiation? Not true as far as I'm aware.

Point 3: Not sure what he means here.

Point 5: The fossil record is not complete. Also, he quickly jumps to the term "miraculous" as soon as he encounters something he feels is unlikely.

Point 6: Incorrect. Take flight: you do not need all the stages to evolve at once, absolutely not. An animal may develop to jump from tree to tree, then a gliding capacity (still seen in many animals today) then later, full flight.

Point 7: He clearly misunderstands evolution - evolution absolutely does not say that the strongest survive, it says the best suited to the environment survive. Eg - huge powerful dinosaurs died out but little wimpy mammals didn't: dinosaurs couldn't adapt, mammals could. He clearly misunderstands the term "survival of the fittest" - fittest means "best suited", not "strongest":

Point 8: Why would only more efficient characteristics develop? A mutation may be inefficient, but if it doesn't hinder reproduction, it will get passed on. The human eye, for example, has a big blind spot. But it doesn't hinder reproduction (we can get by fine with it) so we still see it. Human birth is horribly inefficient - look at death rates of mothers and babies pre-modern medicine. But we have enough babies to overcome the inefficiency. Evolution does not have an end goal.


Can't really look at much more now but his whole article seems pretty confused and mixed up.
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greenhill
01-02-2014, 02:58 PM
Thanks for sharing observer.

As you said, it's very long and mixed. I am not well versed in this subject but it does interest me. So when terminologies are used I am somewhat lost, at times. :embarrass

Peace :shade:
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Muhaba
01-02-2014, 05:43 PM
A long and interesting thesis. A bit too complex too! I didn't read it all but it's interesting and informative.
format_quote Originally Posted by sugaray21
But though the scientific idea of evolution (gradual development) is not incompatible with the teachings of the Quran
The fact that the universe was created in 'six days or stages or periods' says it all. Allah is All-powerful and could have created it all at once by simply saying 'be' and it would be! but He chose to create it in six periods. The Wisdom behind that is known to Allah alone. But it explains evolutionist claims that different organism arose in different time periods and not all at once. The Quran states that Allah's throne was over water at the beginning and everything has been created from water. So the first organism would obviously be water-dwelling organisms (and their fossils would come from an earlier time period). Land dwelling organisms would arise when Allah created land, a later period. This doesn't mean that one organism evolved from another. It may be that some organisms evolved (if Allah placed in them the ability to evolve) through slow adaptation. It's also possible that Allah creates each species or group separately. Allah says: "He produces creation and then reproduces it, that He may reward those who believe and do good works with equity." 10:4 and 27:64

We also know that when something happens due to the laws of nature that Allah created, in the Quran it is attributed to be done by Allah. Such as when a person chooses to disbelieve and their eyes and ears close because of this, the Quran states that they were led astray by Allah. So it's possible that living things adapt and evolve with the Will of Allah instead of being directly created individually.

Allah knows best. I personally feel that this is a useless topic but explanations are necessary for those ignorant muslims who are being misguided by atheist evolutionists.
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Muhaba
01-02-2014, 05:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by observer

Can't really look at much more now but his whole article seems pretty confused and mixed up.
I think evolutionists are confused and their mind is mixed up so they can't understand anything they read.
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Muhaba
01-02-2014, 06:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sugaray21
Cance is not a cause and cannot have a direction and no value judgment about higher and lower stages can be associated with it. It cannot, therefore, have significance for human beings.
format_quote Originally Posted by sugaray21
Biologists appear to ignore the fact that evolution requires organisms to have inbuilt urges for self-preservation and reproduction, the nature of which has not been explained. These are inner, not external causes. It is not merely connected with the structure of the organism because this merely has a channeling effect. The very matter of which the organism is made cannot be dead and inert.
The biggest question that evolutionists should answer is "why do living things have the need to survive?" Why try to continue the race? What put that desire in organisms?
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RedGuard
01-02-2014, 07:26 PM
Maybe because genes that don't like to reproduce die out and those that reproduce "happily" survive and are passed to the next generation?
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RedGuard
01-02-2014, 07:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin
A long and interesting thesis. A bit too complex too! I didn't read it all but it's interesting and informative.

The fact that the universe was created in 'six days or stages or periods' says it all. Allah is All-powerful and could have created it all at once by simply saying 'be' and it would be! but He chose to create it in six periods. The Wisdom behind that is known to Allah alone. But it explains evolutionist claims that different organism arose in different time periods and not all at once. The Quran states that Allah's throne was over water at the beginning and everything has been created from water. So the first organism would obviously be water-dwelling organisms (and their fossils would come from an earlier time period). Land dwelling organisms would arise when Allah created land, a later period. This doesn't mean that one organism evolved from another. It may be that some organisms evolved (if Allah placed in them the ability to evolve) through slow adaptation. It's also possible that Allah creates each species or group separately. Allah says: "He produces creation and then reproduces it, that He may reward those who believe and do good works with equity." 10:4 and 27:64

We also know that when something happens due to the laws of nature that Allah created, in the Quran it is attributed to be done by Allah. Such as when a person chooses to disbelieve and their eyes and ears close because of this, the Quran states that they were led astray by Allah. So it's possible that living things adapt and evolve with the Will of Allah instead of being directly created individually.

Allah knows best. I personally feel that this is a useless topic but explanations are necessary for those ignorant muslims who are being misguided by atheist evolutionists.
If Allah creates the life using evolution, then there is no way to distinguish between "Allah-driven" evolution and a spontaneous one so it wouldn't be contradictory to Islam. The problem with such a theory si that it contradicts several other verses from The Qur'an - namely the verses that say humans were created from mud/clay. Also, according to The Quran the world was created in six days, with Allah's day being the equivalent of either 1000 or 50,000 earthy years (there is a contradiction). So it would put the age of the universe at between 6,000, and 30,000 years old. Now the Earth alone is estimated to be more than 4 bilions years old and the age of the universe is put at about 13,7 billions of years.
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Muhaba
01-03-2014, 10:47 AM
There is no such thing as spontaneous evolution. Nothing happens without the permission or plan of Allah. If some things change or adapt it is done because Allah wants it. As for humans, it's clear from the Quran that they didn't evolve but were created as a separate creation by Allah. As for the day being equal t 1000 years or 50000 years, it shows that the word "day" does not mean one day but a period and that period may be any length. Some thing may occur in a period equaling 1000 years, another thing may occur in a period equaling 50,000 years and something else (such as the creation of the universe) may have taken billions of years. There is no contradiction between the verses that state that a day is 1000 years and the day is 50000 years. It just shows that the word "day" doesn't mean any specific length of time but may be anything. Even today, anyone with a bit of scientific knowledge is aware that days and years on different planets are of different length. This is because it takes different amount of time for a planet to rotate around its axis (complete one day) and to revolve around the sun (complete one year).

the following is from Days of the Planets:
We are accustomed to thinking of a day as a period of 24 hours. However, that definition is a narrow one that only applies to our own planet. A day is the length of time it takes for a planet to complete one rotation on its axis – 360°. Since all of the planets rotate at different speeds, the length of a day on each one differs.

Compared to Earth, Mercury has a very long day. A day on Mercury takes 58 days and 15 hours in Earth days. A day on Mercury is only a little shorter than a year on the planet.

Venus is the slowest moving planet. In fact, it is so slow that while the other planets have flattened out at the poles due to the speed at which they spin, Venus has not flattened. Venus has the longest day of any planet in our Solar System. A day on Venus is 243 Earth days. Venus’ day is actually longer than its year. It only takes 224.7 Earth days for the planet to orbit the Sun.


Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/37481/d...#ixzz2pJr5XOLF
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muslimah bird
01-03-2014, 07:32 PM
^^^very well said sis dreamin. That should help clear up a few things
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