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Nájlá
01-25-2014, 12:23 PM
:salam:

Hope all is well :)

So basically I and a few other of my friends and others I had got to know in my course in university would have a debt of around £9,000 for each year of our study.

These people that I got to know have no intention of getting a job! they want to get married and let their husband take care of them. Would it be wrong to enter a course and let student finance pay for their course if they do not intend of getting a job? As Muslims we should always try and pay our debts ASAP. What if we die in a state where we don't pay it back knowing very well that some did not have the intention of paying it back?

I do intend to open my own small business after I graduate, but this student fees is a huge amount. Its going to be so hard to pay it all. I want to know what Islam says about debt, if i die in debt? I honestly don't want to die while am in debt but how can i pay it if i don't earn much or don't get a job?

University does says that you do not pay back until a person is earning over 25K and once someone starts paying they pay for the first 30 years then after that they no longer need to pay any more.
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ism
01-25-2014, 12:29 PM
When you enter a contract, you are telling the other party you will pay off the amount after studying, so if there is no intention to pay back the fees, isnt that deceit?
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Nájlá
01-25-2014, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by ism
When you enter a contract, you are telling the other party you will pay off the amount after studying, so if there is no intention to pay back the fees, isnt that deceit?
The contract says if you do not get a job then you are forgiven from paying back the money until you get a job. It is not like a bank when you borrow you have to pay back or else they take your house or something else you own. Not saying that this type of contract is something to not take seriously since we wont lose anything.

And I did not say I have no intention of paying it back, I clearly stated that I do and I plan on starting a business. I am just asking for those that do not end up getting a job, uni forgives but islamically is it wrong? Should we as Muslims do ANYTHING to pay that money back even if we don't have a job?
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Aisha
01-25-2014, 01:41 PM
Wa alaykum As Salam,

I would advise you to be very careful in this matter, as it is not simply an issue of paying it back. The loan is interest-based, which is an issue of great concern. Mufti Muhammad Zubair writes:

Originally Posted by Mufti Muhammad Zubair
Whilst the importance of getting a university education is acknowledged, it must be maintained that it cannot be done at the expense of the prohibition on riba. Whilst university education is important, it is an elective lifestyle choice and one can earn a perfectly respectable livelihood without going to university.
In addition, the plans to raise student fees will further disadvantage Muslim wanna-be university students and thus the relative authorities need to be lobbied to provide a comparable interest-free alternative.
And Allah knows best.
Source: http://alqalam.org.uk/fatawa/miscell...to-university/

For a detailed explanation, please see: http://213.175.220.56/~alqalamo/wp-c...udentLoans.pdf


Even if one has no intention of paying it back, only Allah knows what the future holds. If someone has no choice but to work in 10 or 20 years time, they would then be dealing in interest.

I have spoken to university graduates who say that one should only take a course if one is sure that they'll be able to get a job in their chosen field otherwise it's a waste of time, money and effort as more and more employers are looking for experience rather than academic expertise.
If someone wishes to study, Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam writes:

Whether we call it inflation or something else, the reality is that it is exchanging money for money with more from one side which is Riba and unlawful.

In conclusion, to take out the type of student loan mentioned in the question is considered Riba and not permissible. Those students who do not have anybody to support them should consider and look at other possible alternatives. One may look for a part time job or even consider finding a relative or friend who will assist by giving an interest free loan (without accounting for inflation).
And Allah Knows Best
Source: http://daruliftaa.com/node/5947?txt_QuestionID=


Allah swt knows best.
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greenhill
01-25-2014, 01:52 PM
That's is the thing.

Bottom line is Allah knows best.

I am 50-50 either way.The way current society is, it is very easy for the women to be sidelined. Without education, they will put themselves to the mercy of men, rightly or wrongly. Even with education, they are already 'disadvantaged' in some respects. It takes a really magnanimous man to be 'Qur'anic' in the treatment of women. To be gentle, to adorn her etc, and to be in the path of righteousness.

They have a right to be educated even if they do not pursue a job or career and pay their dues.

Perhaps it could be put to those more than able to donate to help others by paying it for someone else too?


:peace:
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glo
01-25-2014, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by ism
When you enter a contract, you are telling the other party you will pay off the amount after studying, so if there is no intention to pay back the fees, isn't that deceit?
I don't think you are asked that question.
The rule is that you are required to pay back the student loan (it is more of a student tax, really) once you earn above a certain amount of money.
Equally, you may end up in a low paid job or only work part-time and never reach the level of income which requires you to pay back. As far as I know the paying back will be done automatically and will be taken out of your wages by the tax people.

Having said all that, what is the point of studying if you have no intentions of putting your skills and learning to a purposeful use?
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Nájlá
01-25-2014, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by Aisha
I would advise you to be very careful in this matter, as it is not simply an issue of paying it back. The loan is interest-based, which is an issue of great concern. Mufti Muhammad Zubair writes:
Walaykum alsalaam Sis, Thanks for pointing that. I took a gap year after college looking for a job it was a horrible year since i was not able to get a job. So to get out of the state i was in I decided my only way was to get into uni. Now i got in without even over thinking about the fees. I didn't even know about interest until right towards the end of first year. uni's don't focus on telling us about the interest instead they are more focused on advertising to us that they are not letting students pay the full 9K instead fees will be £8,250. Now that am in uni i cannot quit and even if i did i still have to pay for 1st and now 2nd year. However, knowing too well that the more i pay each month the less interest or no interest. If i was to pay £15 a month there would be interest. But if i tried to pay the full amount of fees for each year meaning paying £700 a month then there will be no fees. How on earth is that going to be possible i really don't know. All i know is i have to avoid interests.


Originally Posted by glo
Having said all that, what is the point of studying if you have no intentions of putting your skills and learning to a purposeful use?
In my first year, teachers always said studying and getting a degree is not about getting a job but wider our knowledge. There are people who just studying to gain more knowledge not for the job. And there are many reasons why women choose not to get a job, including:

Wanting to settle in and have a family
Bring up their children until they are old enough to go school and come home alone.
What they studied is no longer of their interest.
No jobs in their chosen field!!
Husband wouldn't want their wife to work and so on.
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Nájlá
01-25-2014, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
That's is the thing.

Bottom line is Allah knows best.

I am 50-50 either way.The way current society is, it is very easy for the women to be sidelined. Without education, they will put themselves to the mercy of men, rightly or wrongly. Even with education, they are already 'disadvantaged' in some respects. It takes a really magnanimous man to be 'Qur'anic' in the treatment of women. To be gentle, to adorn her etc, and to be in the path of righteousness.

They have a right to be educated even if they do not pursue a job or career and pay their dues.

Perhaps it could be put to those more than able to donate to help others by paying it for someone else too?


:peace:
I was going to quit. Mum went mad at me for the reason you mentioned. She wants me to be an independent women who wouldn't let a man to mistreat me. She's always said a husband might leave you and i wouldn't always be here, so i want you to be independent. Get a degree and learn to not depend on anyone. Pick yourself for yourself.
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ism
01-25-2014, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Nájlá
The contract says if you do not get a job then you are forgiven from paying back the money until you get a job
Originally Posted by glo
I don't think you are asked that question.
The rule is that you are required to pay back the student loan (it is more of a student tax, really) once you earn above a certain amount of money.
Equally, you may end up in a low paid job or only work part-time and never reach the level of income which requires you to pay back. As far as I know the paying back will be done automatically and will be taken out of your wages by the tax people.
My point is, if you're entering a contract where the second party think you will pay it back... after getting a job, but your intention is to use the money for studying and then not earning any money so you dont have to pay it back, it is a form of deceit. Because the second party believes you will pay it back. If they knew people are taking money just to study, with no intention to pay it back, then it wouldnt be a 'loan' and they might aswell just give the money away.
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wizra
02-13-2014, 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by Nájlá
they want to get married and let their husband take care of them.
Why don't they just do that without going to uni? Unless they want to meet their husband at uni?

Seems like they are already in the habit of wasting time, money & resources. I feel sorry for their future husbands.
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