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AryaS1
03-25-2014, 10:45 AM
I am a Muslim... I seek the truth about my own religion... i get the philosophy of monotheism and prayer legitimacy but what I can't grasp is that why Quran and Islam in particular is promising rewards in heaven for the "Saleh" that are evaluated so materialistic in today's norm and social opinion ? Quran has made numerous promises about rivers of milk and honey, 72 virgin girls that their skin are so transparent and clean that they are visible even after 20 layer of clothes, Or castles and beautiful young boy servants...
please; I'm confused and I am seeing my faith at risk so help me if you have a logical answer
thankyou Brothers
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Muhammad
03-25-2014, 03:50 PM
:salamext:

The true home of the believer is in the hereafter. This life is simply a temporary place of trials and tests. Why should there not be a reward for those who strive to obey Allaah :swt:? Allaah :swt: does whatever He wills, and out of His Mercy and Kindness, He has prepared great rewards for His servants which are incomparable to anything we know on this world.
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tigerkhan
03-26-2014, 05:23 AM
Allah SWT has created a human being and its nature. human beings always look for benefit in doing anything. that's y Allah swt has promised him sucess and bounties if he obey Him. that can be anything he would desire like milk, hoor, honey etc etc.
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Alpha Dude
03-27-2014, 07:44 AM
There is nothing wrong with materialism, in and of itself. What makes it deplorable to the eyes of people nowadays is that they see inequality and injustice happening. They see that only a privileged set of people are able to enjoy material pleasure which sometimes comes at the expense of other people.

In paradise, however, whatever you think of, it materialises out of thin air. You want a shiny car? No problem. Just think and it would be in front of you. Nobody is hurt in the process and there is nothing unfair or unjust about the whole process. So, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this kind of material reward.
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M.I.A.
04-23-2014, 12:06 AM
i thought id post because i asked an almost identical question a while ago.

anyway, good people and good conversation are worth more than any materialistic treasures..


or not.


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Nur Student
05-22-2014, 03:13 AM
You asked a very important question Brother.

Eternal happiness is of two sorts:

The First and Foremost: Allah the Most High’s pleasure, and His grace, manifestation, and nearness. This part is not in need of detailed explanation, or anyway such explanation is not possible.

The Second: Physical bliss, which is attained through one’s house, food, and marriage, and their continuing for all eternity, which completes and perfects them.

QUESTION: What connection with eternity and Paradise has faulty, deficient, changing, unstable, and suffering corporeality? Since the spirit has elevated pleasures, that is sufficient. Why is bodily resurrection necessary for bodily pleasures?

THE ANSWER: Because, just as in relation to water, air, and light, earth is dense and dark, but since it is the source and means of all the varieties of Divine artifacts, in meaning it rises above the other elements; and just as in regard to the mystery of its comprehensiveness and on condition it is purified, the human soul, which is also dense, rises above all the other human subtle faculties; so too corporeality is the richest and most comprehensive and all-embracing mirror to the manifestation of the Divine Names. All the tools and instruments for measuring the contents of the treasuries of mercy and reckoning their balances lie in corporeality. For example, if scales to the number of sorts of food and their pleasures did not originate in the sense of taste in the tongue, it could not taste and weigh them all up, and recognize and experience them. Also, the instruments for experiencing and knowing the manifestations of most of the Divine Names, and tasting and recognizing them, again lie in corporeality. And the faculties for experiencing all the infinitely various pleasures are also in corporeality.

As is proved in the Eleventh Word, it is understood clearly from the disposition of the universe and man’s comprehensiveness that the universe’s Maker wants to make known all the treasuries of His mercy, and all the manifestations of His Names, and to make experienced all the varieties of His bounties. The abode of bliss, therefore, which is a vast pool formed from the flood of the universe and a great exhibition of the textiles woven on the loom of the universe and an everlasting store of the crops produced in the arable field of this world, will resemble the universe to a degree. And it will preserve all its fundamental matters, both corporeal and spiritual. Its All-Wise Maker, the Most Compassionate One, will also give as recompense for the duties of the physical tools and instruments, pleasures worthy of them; and to His servants, as a wage and reward for the particular worship of each. Otherwise a situation would occur that was contrary to His wisdom, justice, and mercy, which is in no way fitting for the beauty of His mercy and perfection of His justice, and in no way compatible with them.

http://www.erisale.com/index.jsp?loc...ent.en.201.513
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daveyats
08-26-2014, 07:22 AM
Originally Posted by AryaS1
72 virgin girls that their skin are so transparent and clean that they are visible even after 20 layer of clothes
wow, so its ok to lust when you're in heaven but not here on earth?
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ardianto
08-26-2014, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by daveyats
wow, so its ok to lust when you're in heaven but not here on earth?
"So, in heaven I will get 72 virgin girls? ..... great! ..... I shall go to heaven! I shall go to heaven! ..... yuuhuu ...!!!"
"Wait, wait! You want to go to heaven because you want to get 72 virgin girls?"
"Sure!. I imagine the pleasure will I get with those 72 virgins!"
"If you think like that, it's mean you can't control your lust. And if you can't control your lust, how can you go to heaven???"

The 72 virgin girls is indeed, an issue that criticized by some people outside Islam. They say that Allah pamper the men lust. But they forget, the men who will go to heaven are the men who can control their lust. And if can control their lust in the world, they can control their lust in heaven too. So, what will happen in heaven is not as bad as those non-Muslims assumption.

The 72 virgins itself is not something that motivate Muslims to go to heaven, because the only reason why they expect to go to heaven is, ...... they don't want to go to hell.

I expect to go to heaven too, of course. But I do not expect those 72 virgins. What I expect is meet again with my beloved wife who will become my only woman in heaven, like when she became my only woman in the world. If Allah give me those 72 virgins, they will become my wife's friends.

Allah ever gave me an angel to accompany me for almost 19 years, and she gave me two children. We were together in happy times, and in hard times, like when she was in struggle against breast cancer, until June 2013, when Allah called her return to him.
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MuslimInshallah
08-26-2014, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by daveyats
wow, so its ok to lust when you're in heaven but not here on earth?

(Smile) Actually, Daveyats, lust is ok here on Earth, too, just within the limits of marriage. For Muslims, sexuality is not “dirty” or “debased”. It's a healthyl part of who we are. God made us this way.


Furthermore, sexual activity is considered an act of worship! Consider the following:


(sadaqah is often translated as “charity”, but this is a bit limiting, I find. I would say that a better translation might be: something good that you do for the sake of God)


Muslim Book 5, # 2198 (translation I found on the site of 40hadithnawawi dot com (sorry, I can't post links)


"O Messenger of Allah, the rich have taken away all the rewards. They observe the prayer as we do, and they keep the fasts as we do, and they give sadaqah (charity) from their surplus riches." Upon this he (the Prophet) said: "Has Allah not prescribed for you (a course) by following which you can also do sadaqah? Verily in every tasbih (i.e. saying Subhanallah) there is a sadaqah, every takbir (i.e. saying Allahu Akbar) is a sadaqah, every tahmid (i.e. saying Alhamdulillah) is a sadaqah, every tahlil (i.e. saying Lailahaillallah) is a sadaqah, enjoining of good is a sadaqah, forbidding of evil is a sadaqah, and having sexual intercourse with your wife is a sadaqah." They (the Companions) said: "OMessenger of Allah, is there reward for him who satisfies his sexual passion among us?" He said: "Tell me, if he were to devote it to something forbidden, would it not be a sin on his part? Similarly, if he were to devote it to something lawful, he should have a reward.

Actually, the translation above is a bit misleading, I think. I would translate the italicized phrase as: the union of your genitals (this is more accurate, I feel, and more inclusive of women's sexuality). It also doesn't say: is there reward for him who satisfies his sexual passion... It actually says something more like (sorry, it's a bit tricky to translate): Does our getting together in sexual passion...does this have good in it?

The difference between this life and the Next, is that the limits that God has imposed on us will no longer be operative. We will be truly free to do as we wish. If the ideal you pursue is sex with beautiful people, then that is what you can obtain. If you want a quiet cottage in the woods, then you can get that, too. If you want freedom from gossipy neighbours and go cycling down the street with your hair flying in the wind...go for it. If you want answers to all the questions that you have, He's promised you'll get those. Or if you want to gaze upon the Face of God... you may do that, too (“face”is a manner of speaking. God, of course, is not a human).

The form Paradise takes depends on you.
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daveyats
08-27-2014, 09:57 AM
so i guess a muslim is restricted to 4 wives on earth due to time constraint but since heaven is eternal, he can have all the time with 72 virgins? :p
sex is legitimate in marriage in any culture and i dont think its inherently immoral but the idea that heaven can be filled with sex and lust is.............. no comments
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HamzaTR
08-27-2014, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by AryaS1
Quran has made numerous promises about ... 72 virgin girls that their skin are so transparent and clean that they are visible even after 20 layer of clothes..
Can you mention the verses about 72 virgins and the silly statement about 20 layers of clothes? And if it is meant to be seen, then why the clothes? lol. I know no such verses exist in Quran.

As for the question, Quran adresses all people. People of zuhd who no worldly desires can possess are the adressees. Just like lustful people are the adressees. And, the point in describing heaven for the both, is to remind them the kingdom of God is what our true aim should be. Being in His kingdom and graced with His pleasure.

But, when people think of the worldly things and pleasures, Quran and especially hadiths remind them, "they are transient in this world. Yet if it is what you aim though, ask a permanent one. Because you'll not reach them here in this world and if you reach, you'll lose them in this world. So, ask the permanent, not the transient." But, it doesn't mean the real Paradise is just limited to this. Real Paradise is to be in nearness (not as in physical) to the Lord, being with Him. But, we don't usually see the real Paradise which is described in the Holy Quran. Please refer to the prayer of Asiya, (whom the Quran refers to an example to the believing men and women), when she wants to be saved from the Pharaoh and his people. What she asks is Paradise. But when she describes Paradise, she makes no mention of these things. Instead she says she wants to be with God. True, there is only a "house" mentioned in her prayer. But, we shouldn't think of it as a worldly thing. Because "Oh God, grant me WITH YOU a house in Paradise" means, "I want to be in seclusionw WITH YOU only. Because, a house with no other than God is in (please note that this is metaphorical not literal), means that, you want no company, friends, spouses, children or any pleasures. Only God. You only wish to be with Him. Please see:

Lastly, Imam Jafar Sadiq says; "Worship is of three kinds: some people worship Allah, because they fear Him – so it is the worship of slaves; and a group worships Allah, Blessed and High is He, to seek reward – so it is the worship of hirelings-merchants; and a group worships Allah, Mighty and Great is He, because of (His) love – and this is the worship of the free, and it is the most excellent worship."

I hope it helps. ma salam
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MuslimInshallah
08-27-2014, 01:40 PM
Smile. Actually, a Muslim is restricted to just one husband.


I don't think it's a question of time restraints. After all, there are people on this earth who engage in sexual activity with an awful lot of people. It's more a question of restraint in general.


It rather brings us back to the beginning, so to speak. You see, the Quranic explanation of the storyof the first pair of humans is subtly, but powerfully different from the Biblical one (let's call them Adam and Eve, though there is an argument out there that the first human entity was named Adam, and from this entity came two complementary beings. The name “Eve” never appears in the Qur'an).


After their creation, Adam and Eve were in a state of Islam (complete harmony with God's Will). But God had given them the freedom and ability to make choices. So He, in His Wisdom, told them they could eat anything that they wished except for the fruit of one tree. There was nothing special about this tree. It was a fruit tree like any other. It was just a test.


Out of jealousy and hatred, Satan came whispering to them, telling them that there was something special about the fruit tree. He told them that eating its fruit would make them immortal (Ta Ha: 120). He was lying, of course. There was nothing special about it. But they were tempted. And so they both decided to taste the fruit (all humans have equal agency. They both freely chose).


Of course, as soon as they tasted the fruit, they knew they had been duped. There was nothing special aboutit. No immortality. Just fruit.


So then they felt both embarrassed and fearful, and they tried to hide themselves. But, of course, you can't hide from God! But here is where they differed from Satan. While Satan arrogantly defied God, the first humans admitted their error and turned to God for forgiveness.


And God Forgave them.


And they came to this earth sinless. In a state of Islam.


So what has this to do with self-restraint? Well, it seems to me that this whole story is telling us that this is what life is all about. God has set us up for testing, and we get to find out who we really are. We are expected to fail. Repeatedly. But then it's up to us to turn to Him and ask for Forgiveness (genuine repentance, though), and try the next test, and the next, and the next... some we pass, some we fail. But really,it's the effort, and the humbleness before our Creator that is important. And, God Willing, we learn a little about restraining ourselves over our lifetimes.


You say the idea that Paradise could be filled with sex and lust...leaves you speechless. It is a curious image you evoke. Because Ardianto made an interesting point a couple of posts back. The sort of person who will enter Paradise is precisely one who has some experience with self-restraint (God says in the Qur'an that He is with those who practice self-restraint. E.g.:al-Baqarah 153). Your image is one of a sexual predator run amok. Ardianto's is one of sharing and love.


Do you think God in His Wisdom is selecting sexual predators to fill paradise? Or do you think He might Love those sinning, weak humans who bumble along, trying their best,asking for forgiveness, working to put food on the table, tucking their children into bed...?


I see God as Beautiful and Loving beauty. There is no ugliness in Paradise.
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Ahmad H
08-27-2014, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by AryaS1
I am a Muslim... I seek the truth about my own religion... i get the philosophy of monotheism and prayer legitimacy but what I can't grasp is that why Quran and Islam in particular is promising rewards in heaven for the "Saleh" that are evaluated so materialistic in today's norm and social opinion ? Quran has made numerous promises about rivers of milk and honey, 72 virgin girls that their skin are so transparent and clean that they are visible even after 20 layer of clothes, Or castles and beautiful young boy servants...
please; I'm confused and I am seeing my faith at risk so help me if you have a logical answer
thankyou Brothers
The Holy Qur'an explains this matter to you, and the Holy Prophet (saw) expounded on its meaning in order to make it clear. Allah has said:

32:17 Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden (in reserve) for them - as a reward for their (good) deeds.

In Sahih Bukhari, it is stated:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet, said, "Allah said, 'I have prepared for My pious worshipers such things as no eye has ever seen, no ear has ever heard of, and nobody has ever thought of. All that is reserved, besides which, all that you have seen, is nothing." Then he recited:-- 'No soul knows what is kept hidden (in reserve) for them of joy as a reward for what they used to do.' (32.17) (Book #60, Hadith #303)

Narrated Abu Huraira: the Prophet said, "Allah said, "I have prepared for My righteous slaves (such excellent things) as no eye has ever seen, nor an ear has ever heard nor a human heart can ever think of.' " (Book #93, Hadith #589)

So what is the purpose of the lengthy descriptions mentioned in the Holy Qur'an? They are meant to tell us of how grand these beautiful rewards are and they were very specifically explained so that the Arabs understood it well. As for us, if we know what the expressions in the Qur'an mean in terms of what the Arabs knew, then we know the purpose behind the expressions used as well.

As for the explanations of what these rewards mean, such as the servant boys, the houris, etc... There is a book online which you should download and read that explains a lot of these verses of the Qur'an and the significance of these rewards, specifically, called "Maidens of Jannat". Here is the link:
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/maidens.pdf
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Pygoscelis
08-27-2014, 05:11 PM
What is the Islamic explanation for men being allowed multiple wives but women not being allowed multiple husbands? I recall the same being said by Mormons and their explanation has something to do with identifying parents of children (I don't remember it beyond that).

Also, where exactly in the Quran is the 72 virgins part? Is that part about layers of clothing etc actually in the Quran, or in a hadith, or did the poster above make it up? Does it specify anything about these 72 virgins other than that they are virgins? Do females get 72 male virgins or something at all similar?
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ardianto
08-27-2014, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
What is the Islamic explanation for men being allowed multiple wives but women not being allowed multiple husbands? I recall the same being said by Mormons and their explanation has something to do with identifying parents of children (I don't remember it beyond that).
This question has been asked by students in my Islamic class, and the reason is, it's could cause a problem in identifying the father of the children. Yes, not the different than the Mormons reason.

Also, where exactly in the Quran is the 72 virgins part? Is that part about layers of clothing etc actually in the Quran, or in a hadith, or did the poster above make it up? Does it specify anything about these 72 virgins other than that they are virgins? Do females get 72 male virgins or something at all similar?
The martyr will get 72 wives in heaven mentioned only in Hadith Al-Thirmidi, and not mentioned in other book of hadith. But there's no explanation about the martyrs. All martyrs, or just few specific persons?. Among Muslims themselves, this hadith actually is not become an issue that get an attention, except among few Muslims. Honestly I never heard about the 72 virgins before I use internet although I live in Muslim majority country and learn Islam since I was kid.
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PeaceLover
03-10-2015, 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I expect to go to heaven too, of course. But I do not expect those 72 virgins. What I expect is meet again with my beloved wife who will become my only woman in heaven, like when she became my only woman in the world. If Allah give me those 72 virgins, they will become my wife's friends.

Allah ever gave me an angel to accompany me for almost 19 years, and she gave me two children. We were together in happy times, and in hard times, like when she was in struggle against breast cancer, until June 2013, when Allah called her return to him.
That's so sweet c: I really wish this was the case with all men. I don't get why the '72 virgins' are a reward when you can be reunited with your spouse here on Earth. I'm really confused.
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OmAbdullah
03-14-2015, 11:16 PM
1.The test given to Adam and Hawa (Eve) was very important having a lesson for all mankind until the end of this world. Allah Almighty made it clear to us that Satan is a jealous enemy to us. The weakest point that satan found in human body was sex. So Satan attacked on human's dress because dress is like a fort to protect sex.

2. Satan didn't invite the first man directly to commit sin. Rather he indirectly attacked him saying that if they ate the fruit, they will become immortal. Since then Satan and his friends always come to deceive in apparently a sincere way. They say that if you keep women in houses you will remain undeveloped and backward. With this excuse Satan's friends make them mix up and then the story doesn't end until females are made completely naked.

3. Now is the era when we can see and understand the losses due to this attack of Satan's friends. Women's honor is destroyed. Her status of motherhood and wife is attacked badly. She has become a toy to enjoy and pass time with and then throw it away. Her children are killed by abortions etc. This is because man is enjoying her without marriage and so he doesn't have to be responsible for her pregnancy and children. Human race is thus killed mainly due to attack on dress and sex.

4. Islam has the answer and solution. Muslim women can go out, can work and study but they must remain in full cover and their places must be separate. Man shouldn't get free chances to enjoy the company of females. He must be able to reach, sit with, talk to and enjoy the company of a woman only after lawful marriage done through her wali (guardian). Only then he will need marriage, and will take the responsibilities of children so human race will be saved.
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