Ephesians 1:3

[JakeTruthSeeker]

according to muslims, who believe in the bible and believe jesus was merely a prophet and not the son of god

how do muslims explains this verse: Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

i'm catholic and i believe that implies that jesus is the son of god.

muslims, please share your thought.

[greenhill]

Welcome to the forum JakeTruthSeeker.

Straight to the question.... no introduction? :hmm:

This forum has many, many threads that talks on the subject related to your question. Do browse through them and see. But simply put, from Adam, Allah has always sent prophets to remind people and for them to always be thankful. Additionally, there would be guidance for our conduct.

Adam was created out of earth (various mix) and Eve was made from a part of him. A man created without parents, a woman created from a man. Jesus created without a father. For the rest of us, we are created from a pair.

The case of Jesus with God is like the case of Adam. He created him from dust, and then He said to him, “Be!” and he came into being.

(Quran, 3:59)

This is what the Quran says.

Wishing you a great stay.


Peace :shade:

[ardianto]

Hello, and welcome to the forum

Okay, how about surah (chapter) Al-Ikhlas from Qur'an?.

Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

It's clear that God doesn't have son, from Muslim perspective.

Muslims believe that Bible was from God. But Muslims also believe that Bible is not really original anymore because it has been changed by the Christians themselves.

You believe that Jesus (pbuh) is son of God. I believe that Jesus (pbuh) was just prophet. Then?. I'll show you one verse from Qur'an

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion"
(Al-Kafirun: 6)

What believed by your religion is your belief, what believed by my religion is my belief. We must respect this difference, okay?

By the way. Although my family are Muslims, some people in my mother family are Protestants. I have enough much non-Muslim friends, and I studied in Catholic elementary school that run by Franciscan Orde until grade 4, before I moved to my current city now. My teachers were nuns, and I was close with them.

:)

[JakeTruthSeeker]

Why i believe jesus is the son of god, Because he wanted us to have Faith that he was even though the evidence isnt visible, if he isnt the son of god, then what does this mean...

Matthew 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

and thats how Peter became head of the church, he was bishop, the term pope wasnt coined until later

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[h-n]

You want us to discuss what the bible says???? The way you wish us to discuss the verses from the bible as if they are factual.

Why say "merely" a Prophet??

Also God is one, the Creator of the Universe who does not have any children nor any parents.

Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is not all seeing, all hearing that he will be able to judge on the Day of Judgement.

Allah does not share his Kingship with anyone, the Archangel Gabriel bows down to Allah and so do all the angels, they do not bow down to Prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

Prophet Jesus peace be upon him when he comes back will not be telling the Muslims they are committing a sin by worshipping the Creator of the Universe.

[YusufNoor]

Why i believe jesus is the son of god, Because he wanted us to have Faith that he was even though the evidence isnt visible, if he isnt the son of god, then what does this mean...

Matthew 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

and thats how Peter became head of the church, he was bishop, the term pope wasnt coined until later

for starters, who wrote matthew? it was written around the year 85CE, and NOT by the man referred to as the apostle matthew. in fact, NO ONE knows who wrote it.

now, the example you use, is a non sequitor. what does matt 16:18 have anything to do with proving any aspect of a trinity? its just a random quote. besides, Christians follow the religion of Saul of Tarsus and NOT that of Jesus or Peter, if there ever was any follower of Jesus named Simon Peter.

where is your contemporaneous, historical evidence that anyone named Simon, was a bishop? for as you say, the term bishop wasn't coined until later.

where the "Bible" agrees with the Qur'an, you can find truth. where it disagrees, there is falsehood.

Muslims agree that Jesus, the son of Mary, is the Jewish Messiah. we also agree that he will return. we KNOW that he isn't God or God's son. we KNOW that, because there is only 1 God, Allah. and Jesus was a Messenger of Allah.

regarding Ephesians, no one knows who wrote that, either. there are only 7 letters of Paul that experts agree that Paul wrote. Ephesians is NOT one of them.

to sum up, anonymous authors, writing various fancies has nothing to do with God, just musings of anonymous writers. as Paul clearly states in Galatians, a book universally agree that he wrote, Paul specifically tells us that he is not preaching the message of ANY of the "apostles".

so..where does that leave us?

peace

[JakeTruthSeeker]

okay then, why wasnt muhammad granted with all the amazing things jesus couldve done, like Walk on water, rise again on the THIRD day, healing the blind, curing sickly people with leprosy, curing bleeding people, paralyzed people, and taking demonic influences out of people (Rite of Exorcism), and Bringing dead from the grave, muhammad didnt do any of that.

[Iceee]

okay then, why wasnt muhammad granted with all the amazing things jesus couldve done, like Walk on water, rise again on the THIRD day, healing the blind, curing sickly people with leprosy, curing bleeding people, paralyzed people, and taking demonic influences out of people (Rite of Exorcism), and Bringing dead from the grave, muhammad didnt do any of that.

Salaam / Peace Be Upon You Brother Jake.

Firstly, welcome to our forums. :welcome:We love when non-Muslims come with questions, because we can help them with answers Inshallah.

As for your question, the Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was sent by God to help spread his message to the people through the angel Gabriel. He used his actions and words to start the religion of Islam. I would say that the Quran, Hadith, and the number of Muslims all around the world today is an "amazing thing." Don't you think so as well?

Here are some links you should check out:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ighlight=Jesus

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ighlight=Jesus

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ighlight=Jesus

About The Life of The Prophet:

http://www.islamicboard.com/seerah/1...light=Mohammad

[JakeTruthSeeker]

then clearly what does say.... You are the Christ, the Son of the living God mean.

[h-n]

Following verses from the Quran;-

72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.


73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.


74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.


75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!


76. Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."

77. Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.




114. Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."


115. Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."


116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

117. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

Prophet Jesus peace be upon him did not come back into this world after the act of crucification. Your refused to listen to God All-Mighty, and then you think he would ask you to listen to the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him after the act of crucification??

See comparative section on what we say on Christianity.

1. There is no need to talk to us as if we don't know that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him was allowed to do things with Allah's permission, ie create the bird out of clay and it became alive, have the table spreadth of food from heaven.

The fact is that the people at the time feared the authorities even though Prophet Jesus peace be upon him clearly was allowed to do certain things. It is a fact that if the Muslims were alive at that time, we wouldn't have allowed him the act of crucification to happen.

Prophet Moses peace be upon him was also allowed to do certain things ie with his staff, and his hand becoming white.

God All Mighty does NOT have any children,

If there was another God, how can he keep his thoughts, actions hidden from God All-Mighty -when he is All Seeing, All Hearing and All Knowing.

We follow after Prophet Jesus peace be upon him and the Christians do not for their idol worship, he will have the Muslims for his support when he arrives back, and not Christians who could not support him. They say they were told to do nothing when the act of crucification happened (though the did not die and was raised to Heaven-the Christians say that no flesh goes to Heaven, well Prophet Adam peace be upon him's body was created in Heaven, and Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is in Heaven with his physical body. He will come back down to Earth with the help of two angels.

This is also why the Christians have no right to fight for anything in this world, if you couldn't fight for the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him, then why bother having the crusades etc??? The whole purpose of miracles, and signs is that people listen to God All Mighty, who has created Prophet Jesus peace be upon him who ate, slept and went to the toilet.

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, who does not share his rule with anyone.

If you are sincere about learning, then I would certainly expect you to go to comparative section, read, refute EACH point, instead of not answering valid points, and persistently saying nonsense that God has taken himself a son.

[Woodrow]

according to muslims, who believe in the bible and believe jesus was merely a prophet and not the son of god

how do muslims explains this verse: Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

i'm catholic and i believe that implies that jesus is the son of god.

muslims, please share your thought.

We believe there were three books revealed before the Qur'an. The Tauret (Torah). Zabor (Psalms) and the Injil (Gospel of Jesus) in there original form those were the word of God(swt) Ephesians is a book by a man (Paul) and is not to be believed as being the word of God(swt) It is the opinion of Paul and should be considered in that light.

Even with that said reading "Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ." God(swt) did not say he was the Father of Jesus(as) It is a blasphemous statement by Paul.

This Blasphemy is corrected in the Qur'an.


19:30 (Y. Ali) He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

19:31 (Y. Ali) "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

19:32 (Y. Ali) "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;

19:33 (Y. Ali) "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

19:34 (Y. Ali) Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.

[YusufNoor]

okay then, why wasnt muhammad granted with all the amazing things jesus couldve done, like Walk on water, rise again on the THIRD day, healing the blind, curing sickly people with leprosy, curing bleeding people, paralyzed people, and taking demonic influences out of people (Rite of Exorcism), and Bringing dead from the grave, muhammad didnt do any of that.

why wasn't Jesus granted a book that would not be corrupted? that is a greater miracle! Jesus did not die, thus he could not have "risen on the third day".

you only "think" you know what Jesus did. there are no surviving, contemporaneous, eyewitness accounts of ANYTHING Jesus said or did. if you think Jesus was so great, why do you follow Paul, instead? was Paul greater than Jesus?

the Prophet Muhammad came with the final revelation from God. it still exists. we KNOW what it is. there are NO, ZERO, NADA, NOT ONE SINGLE document, from the time of Jesus that exists today. we only have "Gospels" from 1 or 2 generations later, written by unknown authors. there are many contradictions in them and NONE of them are written in the language that Jesus spoke. NOT ONE!

example, was Jesus, according to the gospels, killed before or after passover? please answer.

you see, if you do not have 1 single, authentic document about the life of a Prophet of Allah, where can you get authentic information about that Prophet of Allah? why, from another Prophet of Allah! that is the only way you can guarantee its authenticity.

you state you are catholic. let me ask you a question: in 1409, there were 3 popes. which pope, was really the pope?

peace

[JakeTruthSeeker]

Jesus's death was observed by about 500 people,
After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.- 1: Corinthians 15:6, Paul knew jesus more than any of other apostle, 1 Corinthians 15:20
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

the 3 popes was during the great schism at that time, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John State that it was on the 15th day Of Nisan,

Matthew 27:57 'When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58] This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus....62] Now on the next day, which is the one after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate 63] and said, ''Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.'
Mark 15:42 'When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43] Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luke 23:54 'It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. 55] Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56] Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he (Pilate) said to the Jews, ''Behold your king!''

[YusufNoor]

Jesus's death was observed by about 500 people,
After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.- 1: Corinthians 15:6, Paul knew jesus more than any of other apostle, 1 Corinthians 15:20
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

the 3 popes was during the great schism at that time, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John State that it was on the 15th day Of Nisan,

Matthew 27:57 'When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58] This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus....62] Now on the next day, which is the one after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate 63] and said, ''Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.'
Mark 15:42 'When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43] Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luke 23:54 'It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. 55] Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56] Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he (Pilate) said to the Jews, ''Behold your king!''

where is your historical, contemporaneous evidence that there were 500 witnesses to Jesus' death?

if your "evidence" is Paul, where was he present at said death?

i know there were 3 popes during the schism. i'm asking you which was really the pope? were all 3 the "vicar of christ?"

let me re-ask the question, was Jesus "killed" before or after the Passover? you are confusing the preparation day for the sabbath and the preparation day for the passover. was the crucifiction before or after the Passover? please give an answer, one way or the other, then show your supporting statements. you see, in John, it says:

John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour

the preparation day for Passover is Nisan 13. so John says it was the 13th, so how can it be the 15th, in the other gospels? was it Nisan 13 or Nisan 15?

peace

[JakeTruthSeeker]

he wasnt at the crucifixation, he knew little about him, Ill admit, im not exactly sure, i meant the 13th, my mistakes, it was before passover


And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified.

[YusufNoor]

he wasnt at the crucifixation, he knew little about him, Ill admit, im not exactly sure, i meant the 13th, my mistakes, it was before passover


And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified.

then Paul's statements are pure hearsay, aren't they.

ok, so now you claim that Jesus was killed on the preparation day of the passover. if that is true, how then, did Jesus eat the passover meal with the disciples, according to:

Luke 22:14-16New International Version (NIV)

14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”

how did Jesus eat the Passover with the disciples, if he was killed, before the Passover?

[JakeTruthSeeker]

fine, then i was right about the 15th day at first

Acts 22:6-11: “Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. "And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?' "So I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.' "And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. "So I said, 'What shall I do, Lord?' And the Lord said to me, 'Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.' "And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.”

paul saw jesus resurection.

he then told it to king agrippa Acts 26:12-16: “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, "at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. "And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' "So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 'But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.”

[greenhill]

"according to muslims, who believe in the bible and believe jesus was merely a prophet and not the son of god....."


Going back to the original post, you may have made an assumption by saying Muslim, who believe in the bible..

The Quran says Injeel (which over time changed to the Bible). Muslims believe that the teachings of Jesus were true but the Bible no longer has accuracy. Hence the Quran, the definite Book, to tell the truth and give guidance.

With this in mind, what is said in the 'older' Testaments plays no major part in the Muslim belief save that the message was brought down by the messengers/ prophets.

It matters not what might be said elsewhere, the Muslims will believe what is in the Quran foremost, closely followed by the authentic hadeeth.

So when you say Muslims believe in the Bible, please rephrase that to Muslims believe in the Injeel, but the Bible is not the Injeel which was brought by Jesus. So if there are any message that says things on the contrary to the Quran, which statement do you think the Muslims would believe?

Peace :shade:

[YusufNoor]

fine, then i was right about the 15th day at first

Acts 22:6-11: “Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. "And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?' "So I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.' "And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. "So I said, 'What shall I do, Lord?' And the Lord said to me, 'Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.' "And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.”

paul saw jesus resurection.

he then told it to king agrippa Acts 26:12-16: “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, "at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. "And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' "So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 'But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.”

if you are right about the 15th of Nisan, then why does "John" say he died on the 13th of Nisan, which is the preparation day for Passover?

using your quote:

John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he (Pilate) said to the Jews, ''Behold your king!''

so...13th or 15th?

[JakeTruthSeeker]

the bible is the Injeel, yes i know that, i thought muslims, the OT was 1st testament, NT= 2nd testament and Quran was 3rd testament

jesus said in Matthew 5:17-5:18, Think not that i came to abolish the law, or the prophets, not to abolish but to fulfill, for verily i say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away the earth, until all be fulfilled,

he came to fuflill because the pharisees were mucking it up, and twisting it

christ did also say in Isaiah 43:11 and besides me there is no savior

[greenhill]

There was also the Psalms, or Zabur. 4 Books in all.

:shade:

[JakeTruthSeeker]

oh yes, thank you, that was before OT, Do you think i shold convert to islam, despite my ignorance.

[JakeTruthSeeker]

for about 3 days i cant stop thinking about Islam and god and such, i feel like my heart is on bliss and theres butterflies in my stomach, i havent been able to sleep, no matter what i do, it cant escape my mind, these thoughts infiltrate my dreams, i went to mass at a catholic church and the sermon was about paul the apostle, and christ forgiving sins, i still couldnt stop thinking about whats wrong and whats right, i just cant fathom denying jesus christ as savior.it must be easy for you since you have your entire lives, I love jesus and all he did.

[YusufNoor]

oh yes, thank you, that was before OT, Do you think i shold convert to islam, despite my ignorance.

all should convert to Islam. what are you ignorant of?

to correct a point, the Injeel is the message that Jesus brought, NOT the New Testament. the Torah was the Message/Law the Moses brought, NOT the Torah, as it is today.

Jesus reportedly said in Mark 12:

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

that is what Islam is about.

[JakeTruthSeeker]

i know that Allah (SWT), has not forgotten me, because i prayed for about an hour to give me strength and repent of my sins, and i've had trouble with masturbating, and after i prayed to him, i havent done it in 2-3 days now,

i have a feeling that the quranic description of Jannah Is correct, because my mother had a Near death experience in the Mid 1980s during a surgery that went wrong, , and her description of Allah and Heaven is very similar to Jannah, she can still describe it in detail, she said allah was so beautiful she said thats the only thing she cannot describe about him.

i'm just trying to figure out where i should to become a Muslim, i dont know anybody whos muslim, at my college theres barely any clubs nonetheless muslims.

[YusufNoor]

i know that Allah (SWT), has not forgotten me, because i prayed for about an hour to give me strength and repent of my sins, and i've had trouble with masturbating, and after i prayed to him, i havent done it in 2-3 days now,

i have a feeling that the quranic description of Jannah Is correct, because my mother had a Near death experience in the Mid 1980s during a surgery that went wrong, , and her description of Allah and Heaven is very similar to Jannah, she can still describe it in detail, she said allah was so beautiful she said thats the only thing she cannot describe about him.

i'm just trying to figure out where i should to become a Muslim, i dont know anybody whos muslim, at my college theres barely any clubs nonetheless muslims.

you can google mosques in your area. you don't "give up" Jesus, by becoming a Muslim. Jesus is one of the top 5 Prophets of Allah, along with Abraham, Noah, Moses and Muhammad.

to become Muslim, just stae the shahadah, I testify that there is only 1 God and Muhammad is His Messenger. in Arabic, La Ilaha Ilallah, Muhammadur Rasoolullah. and and Jesus is the servant and messenger of Allah, Isa wa abduhu wa Rasoolullah.

by calling Jesus, the son of Mary, his proper titles, you do him more honor than telling tales about him.

May Allah guide you and make it easy on you!

[JakeTruthSeeker]

Oh thank you, i'm going to read the quran more and pray to Allah and before i say my first shahada.

[JakeTruthSeeker]

also, the college i'm transferring to In Ypsilanti, MI has 5 Mosques within 5 miles of its campus, so hopefully, ill make some muslim friends and hopefully some rverts who can help me on journey. (PBUH on them all)

[JakeTruthSeeker]

my heart is literally pounding out of my chest, allah makes me so happy.

[YusufNoor]

Oh thank you, i'm going to read the quran more and pray to Allah and before i say my first shahada.

it helps if the Qur'an is explained to you. check out this intensive look at the 1st Surah, Al Fatihah:

http://www.kalamullah.com/al-fatihah.html

here is an introductory, but quite long overview of Islam:



the Seerah also helps to understand the Qur'an:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...wi%20%28saw%29

[JakeTruthSeeker]

i was reading some more scripture and i want to understand Islam more,but then what does this mean if Jesus is not god

John 1:49-50 "Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel." ⁵⁰ Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these."

John 10:36-37: do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' ³⁷ "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me."

John 11:4, But when Jesus heard it, He said, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it."

John 19:7 "The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."

John 20:31 but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

[YusufNoor]

i was reading some more scripture and i want to understand Islam more,but then what does this mean if Jesus is not god

John 1:49-50 "Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel." ⁵⁰ Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these."

John 10:36-37: do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' ³⁷ "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me."

John 11:4, But when Jesus heard it, He said, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it."

John 19:7 "The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."

John 20:31 but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

here's the problem with the gospels: they are NOT eyewitness accounts, and if you ask me, John was written by a gnostic.at least the intro.

here are the dates of each, agreed to by the majority of scholars: Mark is first, written somewhere between 65 and 75 CE; Matthew and Luke are next, 80 -85 CE; and John is dead last, 90-95 CE.

knowing this, you can see gradual changes in theology in the books. anyone looking for "proof" of godship for Jesus, jumps straight to John. why isn't there "proof" in Mark? why did it take 65 years for Jesus to "become" god? where's the "proof" in Matthew and Luke?

you are under the impression that the books are authentic. they are NOT!

watch this:

[JakeTruthSeeker]

okay, i gotcha, i thought that was rather strange too, since my insight into Islam ive thought this bible verse said it clearly here

Jesus said to him, Matthew 4:7 "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

i see what your saying at John 20:30, it was obvious it was written after christ had risen

so jesus (PBUH) has stated before that he's Allah's son just like any of us are, such as Adam, Muhammad

he never said in full that He's the father/son/holy ghost.

[YusufNoor]

okay, i gotcha, i thought that was rather strange too, since my insight into Islam ive thought this bible verse said it clearly here

Jesus said to him, Matthew 4:7 "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

i see what your saying at John 20:30, it was obvious it was written after christ had risen

so jesus (PBUH) has stated before that he's Allah's son just like any of us are, such as Adam, Muhammad

he never said in full that He's the father/son/holy ghost.

not in any authentic, contemporaneous statement! when i was young, i was shown some changes in the NT. it kinda blew my mind. i kept finding more, mostly the translation. but all the stuff that Ehrman talks about, are well known amongst scholars, and have been for some time.

all my books are packed, but there's a book on NT works, by Christians. and it goes to lengths to give accurate statements. i've had it for a while. by the time i got it, nothing surprised me. at least it is honest, though. gotta give them credit for that.

you see, there are changes, from Mark to Matthew and Luke, as well. which is odd, cuz experts agree that they both used Mark as one of their sources. Ehrman has done a ton of work on this subject. i have many books and college course by him. his last book is just wild! he can show the changes, even within the same book, but going over the oldest manuscripts to the newer one. its kind of fascinating.

his last Teaching Company series, When Jesus became God, is really good. eye opening if you aren't familiar with the topic, though:

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/cours...Religion&pos=1

i just finished it last week. i also enjoyed Prof Chapman's World of Biblical Israel. it follows upon the work of Richard Elliot Friedman.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/cours...al-israel.html

http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Ri...liott+friedman

i'm working on a project, so i just finished, for the 2nd time, Prof Koester's Apocalypse: Controversies and Meaning in Western History:

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/cours...n-history.html

[JakeTruthSeeker]

thanks, i will certainly have to think about buying those, thatd be a good read.

[YusufNoor]

thanks, i will certainly have to think about buying those, thatd be a good read.

if you want a good read. definitely get Friedman's book. as it's your first time reading it, it will blow your mind! it's kind of like a detective story. it's not that you will agree with him; you sit down to read it with a very skeptical mind. you're ready to find fault with everything he says. but once you see it, you can never unsee it. you might disagree with his final verdict, hard to, but not impossible. but the journey there is nothing but "wow", it really couldn't be anyway else. i have a bunch of his books. he takes the torah, and identifies the source of every verse. he's a professor of Hebrew. you can get a color coded Torah, colored by source. look up "documentary hypothesis".

if you want some Ehrman, get Jesus Misquoted and Jesus Interrupted. you can get all 3, usually, at any half-price book store. the paperbacks are fine.

http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jes...ds=bart+ehrman

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrup...ds=bart+ehrman

Forged isn't that bad, itself!

http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing...ds=bart+ehrman

if you like the first 2, try to get Forged. THEN remember: none of this is new! the "clergy" have always known. the "clergy" make the case that the "people" are "babes" in Christ and ONLY babes in Christ! they don't want this information out there.

in my opinion, you like the Torah and the Injeel better, once you have a feel for what is correct and what isn't. because the good stuff is good! Muslims brag about the real Jesus! any Muslim you meet names Isa, is named after him! Jesus, is the ONLY Prophet, named according to his mother. and actually, you will usually hear Isa ibn Mirriam, Jesus, the son of Mary, followed by May Allah's peace and blessings be upon BOTH of them! there is even a Surah in the Qur'an, named after Mary.

if you're going to read the NT, get a Zondervan Study Bible. NIV preferably, but if you have that, it's better when you read their other translations. but the Study Bibles, even point out 3 changes in the NT. and 2 of them are kept! the end of Mark and the adulteress who was going to be stoned and Jesus' response was "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." those aren't in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts, according to Zondervan. the trinity verse, in 1 John 5:7-8 is left out because it never appeared in ANY Greek manuscript until 1400 CE! not, they found a copy, which is actually what they did claim, they literally wrote it then! it is is the latin, but not the Greek.

if you think the Latin is reliable, remember Jesus, Peace be upon him, spoke Aramaic and Hebrew. the Hebrew was mostly just for the books they read as Scripture. so, someone wrote stories about Jesus in Greek. so you've already lost and entire translation, but you are using a Latin translation of the Greek. 2 languages removed from the original. which, of course, you are reading in English! Arabic and Aramaic are similar, along with Hebrew. they retain the original stories, not the Greek translations. the Qur'an is more about Moses, when it deals with history, than any other Prophet!

you see, as a "Christian", you only have One Guy, so to speak. the only other person considered near as big is Paul! Peter is "mentioned", but the religion is the religion of Paul, not Peter. Paul claims superiority over Peter, in his own letters. not in Acts, that truth is omitted there. Christians think their religion goes back to Peter, but Paul says different. but everyone misses that! just read it in Galatians.

in Islam, all the Prophets are considered brothers. you aren't "losing" Jesus! you understand the real Jesus, that's much better than lies. plus, you get all the rest! when Al Fatihah says: "guide us to the straight path, the path of those You have blessed", it is talking about the Prophets. ALL of them. why wouldn't you ask that!?

we do not speak ill of Prophets! it is a sin. we absolutely, do not, will not, EVER say that David, the father of Solomon, was an adulterer or a murderer. it is a great evil! May Allah protect us. you see, you get the whole story. there's not much said about Jesus, but he's coming back! folks will hear the truth when he returns. but you can hear it now! no need to wait! All the Prophets came with the same Message. the stories may be different, but the Message is the same, There is Only One God, obey your parents and love/assist your neighbor. its never changed.

one interesting story in Who wrote the Bible, is about Aaron. Aaron is also a Prophet. but, and this makes sense, had Aaron created the calf idol, it would have disqualified him AND his lineage from EVER being High Priest. it is a blemish. High Priest are not allowed to have those. we say he didn't make it either! he didn't stop it, but he didn't do it.

one of the sources for the Torah, is a "Priestly" source, called P. Ezra, the final editor, and writer of a lot of the Bible, is part of the P source. the "D" source precedes Ezra, but not all of P. in fact "D" is considered the author of Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges and I&II Kings. its called the Deuteronomistic History, as a text. "D" is also involved in the 1st four books of the Torah. Jeremiah might also have something by him, because Jeremiah IS D! Jeremiah, who has Baruch ben Nariah, write. Baruch does have a style and he "interprets" Jeremiah, by making it loftier. Baruch was his scribe, that was his job. (there is a J and an E source for the Torah, but the P is the culprit for a few juicy things.)

at least we know who those authors are, though! because other than the 7 letters of Paul, we have no idea who wrote the rest of the NT! Paul is our ONLY known source.

[JakeTruthSeeker]

i have one last question, what does the holy spirit mean in the Islamic view of Mark 3:29

what is the context exactly?

[YusufNoor]

i have one last question, what does the holy spirit mean in the Islamic view of Mark 3:29

what is the context exactly?

the holy spirit is Gibreel (Gabriel). so that verse makes no sense.

the sin that Allah does not forgive, is shirk; unless you repent. shirk is any form of polytheism, associating partners with Allah.

one of my favorite hadeeth:

Allah, Blessed and Exalted, says: O son of Adam, however much you call upon Me and place your hopes in Me, I will forgive you without any reservation. O son of Adam, if you have sins piling up to the clouds and then ask My forgiveness, I will forgive you without any reservation. O son of Adam, if you come to me with enough sins to fill the earth, and meet Me without associating anything as a partner with Me, I will come to you with enough forgiveness to fill the earth. Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 3540, Grade: Sahih - See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sa....J5AUNwgS.dpuf

you mentioned Paradise:

Allah the Exalted said: I have prepared for My righteous servants what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and has not crossed the mind of men, but it is testified by Allah.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2824, Grade: Sahih
- See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sa....J5AUNwgS.dpuf

No soul knows what joy for them has been kept hidden.

Surah As-Sajda 32:17
- See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sa....J5AUNwgS.dpuf

when things are difficult:

A servant committed a sin and he said: O Allah, forgive my sin! Allah the Blessed and Exalted will say: My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable. Then he returned to his sin and he said: O Allah, forgive my sin! Allah will say: My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable. Then he returned to his sin and he said: O Allah, forgive my sin! Allah will say: My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable, so do what you will because I have forgiven you.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2758, Grade: Sahih
- See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sa....J5AUNwgS.dpuf

[JakeTruthSeeker]

the christian assertion that people could go to heaven after Jesus (PBUH) was crucified, everyone went to hell, every verse about Allah's eternal life for believers, doesnt make sense because in that sense so a very righteous man could go to Hell even if he obeyed Allah and followed his will, then he says everyone that workers of iniquity will be in Jahannam

[YusufNoor]

the christian assertion that people could go to heaven after Jesus (PBUH) was crucified, everyone went to hell, every verse about Allah's eternal life for believers, doesnt make sense because in that sense so a very righteous man could go to Hell even if he obeyed Allah and followed his will, then he says everyone that workers of iniquity will be in Jahannam

we are very careful about what we say about heaven. Allah is Maliki Yawmid Din, al Fatihah v 4, the "Owner of the day of Judgment". He says who gets in. not us.

but we refer to Allah as Ar Rahman Ar Raheem, Al Fatihah v 3. Allah is the Most Merciful, the Extremely Merciful. we rely on the Hope of Allah, because of His Mercy.

if i made a comment about any form of Christian belief, it would be negative, so I won't.

to me, Islam makes the most sense.

[JakeTruthSeeker]

are you a Revert, or born-Muslim, anyways, i was reading the main catholic apologetics site on The Trinity, one of the earliest testimonies about 225 CE, by Origen is one that also states that jesus was never crucified, so the catholic viewpoint is that jesus was crucified, but one of the earliest resources on their perspective is one that says the opposite.
catholic.com/tracts and trinity

[YusufNoor]

are you a Revert, or born-Muslim, anyways, i was reading the main catholic apologetics site on The Trinity, one of the earliest testimonies about 225 CE, by Origen is one that also states that jesus was never crucified, so the catholic viewpoint is that jesus was crucified, but one of the earliest resources on their perspective is one that says the opposite.
catholic.com/tracts and trinity

born and raise Irish Roman Catholic! reverted in late March 2006.

the Qur'an says that Jesus was not crucified, but it was made to appear so. that's fine by me. i have no problem with that.

i thoroughly enjoy learning more and more about the history of Christianity. it is fascinating. knowing when stuff was actually written, allows you to see the changes and evolution of Christianity. there was quite a variety of people, calling themselves Christians. what Christians believe today, is not what they started with, and yet they claim the opposite and use it as a proof that their religion is true. but it's not true. I have Bart Ehrman's 2nd to last book. it is amazing. he studies the texts, by age. then, he can not only show you the changes, as the years go on, but he also shows why those changes were made. the "letters" that aren't really paul, were written to refute various beliefs, that the writer saw as improper.

let me apologize, i am packing and moving, early in the morning. i may miss a question. i'll be on the road for a few days. i'll check in, when i can, in shaa Allah.

May Allah guide you and all of us and may He make it easy on you and us as well!

peace!

[JakeTruthSeeker]

may allah bless you on your travels, InshaAllah

peace.

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum JakeTruthSeeker,

I have been reading your dialogue. I'm glad you found your way to this Forum. Though YusufNoor will be busy, don't feel shy to ask any questions you may have. Or to browse the many threads archived.

May God Bless and Guide you, that you find what you seek.

[YusufNoor]

may allah bless you on your travels, InshaAllah

peace.

JazakAllah Khayr! (may Allah reward you with goodness!)

thanks Jake. still got some work to do, but i'll be on the road tomorrow. in shaa Allah!

[JakeTruthSeeker]

see thats the thing, thats why i'm discovering Islam, because there are a lot of discrepancies in catholicism, i have looked into the constantiopole aspect, i found out recently the vatican wasnt built until the 1500s, before then they were near constantine, coincidentally, they moved to the vatican, only about 30-40 years after the great schism, and after the 3 popes scandal.

[YusufNoor]

see thats the thing, thats why i'm discovering Islam, because there are a lot of discrepancies in catholicism, i have looked into the constantiopole aspect, i found out recently the vatican wasnt built until the 1500s, before then they were near constantine, coincidentally, they moved to the vatican, only about 30-40 years after the great schism, and after the 3 popes scandal.

hey Jake!

had a few snags, leaving tomorrow, in shaa allah.

this history of Catholicism is not what we are told. not necessarily a lie, straight out. if you get the readers digest version of the readers digest version, a lot of stuff gets left out.

the pope was never THE pope. the bishops running the largest cees, were called Papa, Pope. so, at the time of Nicea, there was a pope in Rome, 1 in Antioch and one in Alexandria. if you pay attention, you'll notice the "pope" of Rome, was NOT at Nicaea, they couldn't even speak Greek! in New Rome, what we call Constantinople, the Bishop was later called Patriarch. it was considered equal to Rome.

after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the Bishop of Rome began to assert his authority of the population, as there was no emperor. the fought for and got recognized as the leader of the Western Church. later, The Bishop of Rome and the Patriarch of Constantinople, excommunicated each other. they have been separate since. The church at Antioch had a problem with Mary being recognized as the "mother" of god, and got themselves excommunicated. they relocated to parts of Asia. Alexandria got tired of decisions made by Rome and Constantinople and left the "church".

you should check the histories of the popes in the late dark ages. totally disgusting. one of the reasons that people started translating the Bible and forming their own churches was the corruption of the priests and bishops. they were curious about the "bread and wine". they weren't saying that it couldn't be done. they were saying that their local clergy was so corrupt, that "they" couldn't do it. in fact, the Pope issued an edict in the 1600s saying that, no matter the priest, or his reputation, the wine and bread works!

but you see, universities were founded by Franciscan and Jesuit monks. they taught that Rome is, was, and always has been the "leader" of the church. which simply is not true. not by any historical record. they became the leader of the Western church, but that took hundreds of years and breaking with all of the other churches, for that to happen.

[JakeTruthSeeker]

---

Thanks, i wish i had that info earlier, today in one of my classes, i got into a heated debate with 3 catholics over their traditions, and they kept saying i'm too sola scriptura and all sacred tradition somehow comes from scripture, and then they say my perception is off. this one guy told me that theres multiple "references" to purgatory, which in that same context, i could find even better ones to prophesize Muhammad (PBUH).

i'm still finding my way and allah's path, really weird though, 2 nights ago, i prayed to Allah (SWT) to show/tell me which path is the one he made, and the next day when i woke up i found myself Humming Morning has Broken By Yusuf Islam, i havent heard that song in nearly 2 years, maybe, i'll say my shahada when i feel i'm ready and have read more quran.

also, i was reading some Quran, and i found my Islamic Name, Ya'Qub.

[YusufNoor]

Salam Jake,

let us know when we can start calling you Ya'Qub!

as a revert, but also as one who found scripture fascinating for years, i am constantly having to research things, but Allah really helps me along.

i challenge Christians to find stuff in the OT, that they agree prophesies Christianity. well, the Jews just don't think that possible. BUT, did you know that some Jewish scholars, whole-heartedly agree that the promises made to Hagar are about Islam?

i lost my notes, my books are packed, but i found an old post of mine. in part, we read:

as i have written consistently, and everyone seems to miss, some Jews ABSOLUTELY consider Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, to be a legitimate prophet; just NOT for the Jews! the following are note from Mesorah Publishing's Stone Chumash and their Art Scroll Series 2 part Bereishsis/Genesis:

In chapter 17, Chumash, God is speaking to Abraham about their covenant and promising a son through Sarah, Abraham interrupts God:
v18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!” God said, “Nonetheless, your wife Sarah will bear you a son and you shall call his name Isaac…v 20 But regarding Ishmael I have heard you; I have blessed him, will make him fruitful, and will increase him most exceedingly; he will beget twelve princes and I will make him into a great nation…”

Part of the notes for this verse read: “We see from the prophecy in this verse, that 2337 years elapsed before the Arabs, Ishmael’s descendants, became a great nation [with the rise of Islam in the 7th Century C.E.]…Throughout this period, Ishmael hoped anxiously, until the promise was fulfilled and they dominated the world. We the descendants of Isaac, for whom the fulfillment of the promises made to us is delayed due to our sins…should surely anticipate the fulfillment of God’s promises and not despair” (R’ Bachya citing R’ Chananel).

Bereishsis/ Genesis adds: R’ Bachya cites R’ Chananel’s comment on this verse: We see from this prophecy [in the year 2047 from Creation, when Abraham was ninety-nine], 2337 years elapsed before the Arabs, Ishmael’s descendants, became a great nation. [This would correspond to 624 C.E, two years after the H(ijra)!…]

and if you are going to read the Torah, there's only 1 that you should read. tons of research went into it and it's quite interesting. it actually changed my life. i began a serious hunt for the "church" that Jesus started. almost by accident, i read a book on Islam, and found enough proof that it was the original message, even though it was a very liberal book, that i took shahadah a few days after finishing it.

here is that Torah:

http://www.artscroll.com/Books/9780899060149.html

and here's the 2 volume Bereishis / Genesis

http://www.artscroll.com/Books/9780899063621.html

so BOTH of those books say that Islam is prophesied in the Torah!

[YusufNoor]

if you want to see an eye opening speaker, listen to this lecture by Mufti Ismael Menk of Zimbabwe. he's one of my favorite speakers:

[JakeTruthSeeker]

last night, i believe Allah (SWT) performed a Miracle on me, i was having this unbearable tooth ache on 3 teeth, later and i read some quran verses before going to bed, and i prayed to allah to guide me on the right path, and i fell absolutely nothing within an hour, and afterwards i felt very calmed and had inner salam, and now i still feel inner salam, like i'm loved and Happy.

i think of my spiritual path as a Vine, when i first posted i was a Insolent seed that didnt know much, now i'm growing more.

[YusufNoor]

last night, i believe Allah (SWT) performed a Miracle on me, i was having this unbearable tooth ache on 3 teeth, later and i read some quran verses before going to bed, and i prayed to allah to guide me on the right path, and i fell absolutely nothing within an hour, and afterwards i felt very calmed and had inner salam, and now i still feel inner salam, like i'm loved and Happy.

i think of my spiritual path as a Vine, when i first posted i was a Insolent seed that didnt know much, now i'm growing more.

:sl:

the more you learn, the more you will see the beauty and truth of Islam, in shaa Allah!

watch Mufti Menk. i often think, that if i heard him before i became a Muslim, i would have reverted after hearing him. he is such a beautiful speaker!

time to hit the road...Jake! ;D

i hope and pray you are Ya'Qub, before i get to Albuquerque! in shaa Allah!

:wa:

[JakeTruthSeeker]

thank you, i found something to maybe look forward, one of the top prospective employers i'm looking at after i get my degree, is hiring In UAE, that would be an amazing experience to be able to live there.

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

Hey Jake, or can we call you Ya'Qub yet?

Alhamdulillah, my travels are finished and my internet is finally hooked up.

my heart has not yet accustomed itself to living this far above sea level. but if you have any questions or anything you would like to discuss, i'll try to check in, in the mornings, in shaa Allah.

ma salama