Stoning someone is from Jewish laws. Why do some do it?

[Snow]

There is no mention of stoning in the qur'an.

Some examples:

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.Deuteronomy 13:5-10


If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28


If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21



Just a few examples. All from the old testament. Not from the Qur'an.
I can not grasp it.

[Muhaba]

And where did the Jewish laws come from? Were they not from Allah?

Stoning is the punishment of the married adulterer in Islam and it is from the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم
There are many hadith mentioning stoning of the married adulterer so yes, stoning is the prescribed punishment according to Islamic law.

[Karl]

No wonder the Jewish population was so low with all that stoning each other to death. Luckily Christianity and Islam came along and were much more merciful. Why don't the Jews do the stoning today?

[Scimitar]

Actually Karl, the stoning is a punishment which is considered as legit in Islam - the Quran is a book of signs, if you want the details - look to the hadeeth... and no, don't scream the same old tired wizzle I hear all over the net from escapists - "but the hadeeth can be made up" - if that is a legitimised argument that can hold scrutiny in methodology, then I am the King of England :D

Bottom line, contexts have to be considered and many here are just passengers. So the context is gonna be lost on them, they didn't want to find it in the first place... quranites are the same, bunch of compromised personalities who will make salah, whilst realising that the details of it are not given in the Quran either.

Sheesh... I'm facepalming on the behalf of the OP here.

Scimi

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[syed_z]

No wonder the Jewish population was so low with all that stoning each other to death. Luckily Christianity and Islam came along and were much more merciful. Why don't the Jews do the stoning today?

They tried using logic against this Law and decided that it would be better to just darken the faces of both adulterer and adulteress and make them sit on a donkey and parade them through the streets of the city rather than implement the stoning because many times during the implementation of this law violence took place. So they changed their own Law and Prophet Muhammad (Saw) confirmed their own law when a case of adultery was referred to him.

Its maybe due to that why its not implemented even today, the Rabbis follow what their ancestors changed.

[Scimitar]

I did not know that. Can you cite the source? I'm interested. Thanks bro Syed.

Scimi

[syed_z]

I did not know that. Can you cite the source? I'm interested. Thanks bro Syed.

Scimi

Yes, sure, I've read it in Jerusalem in the Quran by Sheikh Imran Hosein as well as this tradition is cited in Conclusive Argument from God (Chapter 71) by Shah Wali Allah. The actual tradition can be found in Bukhari, Muslim and other sahih books.

Sheikh Imran Quotes this tradition where Jews in Madinah tried to test the veracity of his (saw) prophethood

"Finally something else occurred which should have sealed the matter once and for all. The Jews brought before the Prophet (‘alaihi al-Salaam) two people who had committed zina (sexual intercourse between two people who are not married to each other). They sought to test him by asking him what should be done to the two people. He asked them what punishment did they enforce. They replied to the effect that they made the faces black and then beat such people publicly. He then asked whether this was the punishment that they found in their Book. He asked them to bring their Book and to read from it (since he, himself, could neither read nor write). As they read from the Torah their Rabbi, Abdullah bin Salaam, who had become a Muslim, stood beside the Prophet (‘alaihi al-Salaam). When the reader came to the verse on rajm (stoning to death) in the Torah he put his finger over the verse to hide it. Abdullah bin Salaam ordered him to stop reading and to raise his finger. He then had to read the verse of rajm that prescribed
this punishment for zina. The recitation of this verse caused considerable embarrassment to the Jews. They had been exposed as a people who had betrayed their own sacred law and were trying to conceal that betrayal. The Prophet (‘alaihi al-Salaam) then ordered that the two people be stoned to death thus enforcing the Jewish law that the Jews themselves were not enforcing. This should have been sufficient to absolutely convince the Jews that he was, indeed, a true Prophet.


By the way apologies for the donkey part, thanks for making me refer to the source and that corrected me.

[Snow]

And where did the Jewish laws come from? Were they not from Allah?

Stoning is the punishment of the married adulterer in Islam and it is from the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم
There are many hadith mentioning stoning of the married adulterer so yes, stoning is the prescribed punishment according to Islamic law.

It is mentioned a few times that the jews distorted what Allah was saying...

• Qur'an 2:59 They "Changed it for a saying other than had been spoken to them."
• Qur'an 2:77 Allah "knows what they keep secret and what they make known."
• Qur'an 2:140 They "Conceal a testimony they have from Allah."
• Qur'an 3:78 A "Party among them" (Jews) '"distort the book with their tongues and say it is from Allah."
• Qur'an 3:79 The Jews "teach the book and read it themselves."
• Qur'an 3:187 The Jews "cast it (Allah's book) "behind their backs"
• Qur'an 4:46 The Jews "alter the words from their places" and "distort the book with their tongues."
• Qur'an 5:13 The Jews "altered the words from their places" and "forgot a good part of the message."
• Qur'an 5:15 The Jews "concealed that which Muhammad had made clear" and Muhammad made clear much which they had "passed over" (in their book)
• Qur'an 5:41 The Jews "alter the words from their places."

[Karl]

Actually Karl, the stoning is a punishment which is considered as legit in Islam - the Quran is a book of signs, if you want the details - look to the hadeeth... and no, don't scream the same old tired wizzle I hear all over the net from escapists - "but the hadeeth can be made up" - if that is a legitimised argument that can hold scrutiny in methodology, then I am the King of England :D

Bottom line, contexts have to be considered and many here are just passengers. So the context is gonna be lost on them, they didn't want to find it in the first place... quranites are the same, bunch of compromised personalities who will make salah, whilst realising that the details of it are not given in the Quran either.

Sheesh... I'm facepalming on the behalf of the OP here.

Scimi

True, but stoning would be rare as there would need to be four male witnesses or eight female witnesses. Or the sinners were so grief stricken with guilt that they confessed because they believed being killed by stoning may give them forgiveness from Allah. And of course if witnesses were proved to be false, they would be killed.

[Ali Mujahidin]

True, but stoning would be rare as there would need to be four male witnesses or eight female witnesses. Or the sinners were so grief stricken with guilt that they confessed because they believed being killed by stoning may give them forgiveness from Allah. And of course if witnesses were proved to be false, they would be killed.

Exactly. I have asked a Muslim scholar about this. He said that the four witnesses must be Muslims of good standing ie not fasiq. Also their eyes must be good ie good as in eyesight. Plus they must come upon the act by accident, not go snooping and peeping. So for the conditions to be fulfilled is a near impossibility. Therefor, theoretically, there should be hardly any stoning for adultery. Yet, according to the media, stoning for adultery is apparently quite rampant. From what I have read in the media reports, I do not see any of those cases having fulfilled the conditions.

[Muhaba]

I heard that, to implement the punishment of Zina, you also need to have a society free from things that lead to temptation. For example, in a secular country where there is so much فحش like nudity and free mixing of men and women and magazines and movies depicting sexuality, you won't be able to implement the punishment.

[Ummshareef]

I heard that, to implement the punishment of Zina, you also need to have a society free from things that lead to temptation. For example, in a secular country where there is so much فحش like nudity and free mixing of men and women and magazines and movies depicting sexuality, you won't be able to implement the punishment.

I understood that the hadd is implemented if there are four witnesses to the act, i.e. they actually see the act of penetration, or if there is a confession. I've not heard that society being full of temptation is regarded as a valid excuse. I teach my kids that the only form of acceptable sexual activity in our religion is within marriage and punishment is due for those that disobey this, no excuses.

[syed_z]

Salaam Ummshareef,

I agree with Dreamin, I believe shes mentioning a major factor to be kept in view by those who are to pass the judgment and give a decision based on this law.

If the society is corrupt then most likely they will keep this in mind before passing any decision of rajm.

But when it comes to persons like us, regular citizens we have to inform our family members and children and each other that what is haraam is haraam, simple!

[Karl]

I heard that, to implement the punishment of Zina, you also need to have a society free from things that lead to temptation. For example, in a secular country where there is so much فحش like nudity and free mixing of men and women and magazines and movies depicting sexuality, you won't be able to implement the punishment.

Of course there would not be Sharia law in such a society. That society will have it's own set of taboos. Like you can bed a different partner of any gender every night as long as they are of "legal age", but you can not have more than one wife.

[gurufabbes]

No wonder the Jewish population was so low with all that stoning each other to death. Luckily Christianity and Islam came along and were much more merciful. Why don't the Jews do the stoning today?

Because the death penalty was very rare in its application, even in those days, and required 3 (kosher) witnesses.

It is impossible at all to apply today as there is no higher court of 70 judges (called the Sanhedrin).

The question was asked, to I answered.

[Karl]

Because the death penalty was very rare in its application, even in those days, and required 3 (kosher) witnesses.

It is impossible at all to apply today as there is no higher court of 70 judges (called the Sanhedrin).

The question was asked, to I answered.

But Israel is a Jewish state and if it does not enforce the laws of it's own religion then it has no reason to exist. It has just become a sandy hotter version of New York city. Hmmm that's why the terrorist attacks, New York is just West Israel.

[Snow]

But Israel is a Jewish state and if it does not enforce the laws of it's own religion then it has no reason to exist. It has just become a sandy hotter version of New York city. Hmmm that's why the terrorist attacks, New York is just West Israel.

I read a book about the Russian mafia.
After reading it, I wondered why it was not called the jewish mafia?

Every single mobster was jewish and the would often flee to Israel and there they would find a good place for their ill found money.
As the author said something like, it does not matter where the money comes from, all money is good.
Everything is about money - ethics/beliefs... just do not matter

[gurufabbes]

But Israel is a Jewish state and if it does not enforce the laws of it's own religion then it has no reason to exist. It has just become a sandy hotter version of New York city. Hmmm that's why the terrorist attacks, New York is just West Israel.

I saw the subject as being what Judaism says about stoning and why it is not applied nowadays.

Not the State of Israel and which laws it has or does not have.

[Karl]

I read a book about the Russian mafia.
After reading it, I wondered why it was not called the jewish mafia?

Every single mobster was jewish and the would often flee to Israel and there they would find a good place for their ill found money.
As the author said something like, it does not matter where the money comes from, all money is good.
Everything is about money - ethics/beliefs... just do not matter

Money IS power, you can't run the world on ethics and beliefs, lies and propaganda are better. And stoning is very primitive, there are so many new ways of killing people. There are so many people walking the dark path and the Jews excel in it and take their sycophants with them. Let's hope the system crashes and there is money no more and we are just people on the planet and not the slaves of Satanic commerce and power games.

[gurufabbes]

Money IS power, you can't run the world on ethics and beliefs, lies and propaganda are better. And stoning is very primitive, there are so many new ways of killing people. There are so many people walking the dark path and the Jews excel in it and take their sycophants with them. Let's hope the system crashes and there is money no more and we are just people on the planet and not the slaves of Satanic commerce and power games.

Well, I hope you go around and express this anti-Semitism while preaching. People can see your hypocrisy for what it is.

[The-Deist]

There are so many people walking the dark path and the Jews excel in it and take their sycophants with them. Let's hope the system crashes and there is money no more and we are just people on the planet and not the slaves of Satanic commerce and power games.

Brother Karl I think it is not good to judge by race/religion or any classification whatsoever. In Islam everyone is equal, EXCEPT the one who does more good deeds and that I believe is for Allah (swt) (or god for you people of other religons :D ) to judge. Now as we say you blamed it in the JEWS which is not right. You cant blame an entire race based on few people and you shouldnt even judge them as a majority or not even one person, if you dont like them/him then just leave him and find something that suits you more :D ; As in an election you go through a list you cant say because you saw one president that looks bad that everyone else is. Now brother Karl as you attacked the name of Jews they are going to feel something theyre human just like anyone Budhist, Jew, Muslim etc. No wonder the world is in a chaos today one attacks the other with words until it turns into fists fights and into a war. WE should respect everyone equally as in a NATION so maybe we can stop the world conflict.
Peace out for all of my Ummah (nation) of mankind out there
PS. You can add any points :D

[Karl]

Well, I hope you go around and express this anti-Semitism while preaching. People can see your hypocrisy for what it is.

I have nothing against Semites. But I do wonder why the West does not totally conquer them for that oil, I suppose they have gone all liberal socialist and just want tame Muslims. I can't get my head around the new way of trying to rule the world. I suppose it is a Zionist method too deep for my Western barbarian mind. Are you in the know and can enlighten me?

[gurufabbes]

I have nothing against Semites. But I do wonder why the West does not totally conquer them for that oil, I suppose they have gone all liberal socialist and just want tame Muslims. I can't get my head around the new way of trying to rule the world. I suppose it is a Zionist method too deep for my Western barbarian mind. Are you in the know and can enlighten me?

I'm in the know that you raised the question concerning stoning in religious Jewish law, which I then answered.
You're now bringing up unrelated subjects.

[Karl]

Brother Karl I think it is not good to judge by race/religion or any classification whatsoever. In Islam everyone is equal, EXCEPT the one who does more good deeds and that I believe is for Allah (swt) (or god for you people of other religons :D ) to judge. Now as we say you blamed it in the JEWS which is not right. You cant blame an entire race based on few people and you shouldnt even judge them as a majority or not even one person, if you dont like them/him then just leave him and find something that suits you more :D ; As in an election you go through a list you cant say because you saw one president that looks bad that everyone else is. Now brother Karl as you attacked the name of Jews they are going to feel something theyre human just like anyone Budhist, Jew, Muslim etc. No wonder the world is in a chaos today one attacks the other with words until it turns into fists fights and into a war. WE should respect everyone equally as in a NATION so maybe we can stop the world conflict.
Peace out for all of my Ummah (nation) of mankind out there
PS. You can add any points :D

What I said is not judgement, just an observation. Don't worry about war, they are necessary. This world has only so many resources and space etc so every so often the elite decide to start a war to kill off the people.

[Karl]

I'm in the know that you raised the question concerning stoning in religious Jewish law, which I then answered.
You're now bringing up unrelated subjects.

Yeah I have a habit of doing that, the mods delete me quite a bit.
Women were not allowed at stonings unless they were being stoned were they? No feminism in those good old days.

[OmAbdullah]

True, but stoning would be rare as there would need to be four male witnesses or eight female witnesses. Or the sinners were so grief stricken with guilt that they confessed because they believed being killed by stoning may give them forgiveness from Allah. And of course if witnesses were proved to be false, they would be killed.

1. In the Sunnah, Punishment with stoning to death was given to married adulterer only. The punishment of unmarried adulterer is revealed in the Holy Quraan in surah An-Noor verse 2. It is to lash them with 100 lashes in front of a group of Muslims.


2. In any case of adultery, four eye-witnesses are required. We didn't hear of 8 females. As far as I know, only female witnesses are not accepted. There must always be one or more male witnesses with them. In this law there is great benefit for female Muslims because witnessing against a criminal is not an easy job. In fact I have understood that two females in place of one man are required because only one female will fear a lot and it is this fear which will make them forget the things.

3. Allah سبحانه و تعالى doesn't want the spreading of the news about illegal sex relations because this will increase the crime. Allah is the All Knowing and All Wise. So Allah didn't give freedom to people to recite the love stories of others. Rather Allah revealed the law for the accusers with sex crime to bring 4 witnesses and confirm the case in the court so that the criminals are punished in the presence of a community of Muslims to give a lesson to the whole community. A Muslim community must be very poise and high above any immorality.

4.If an accuser fails to bring 4 witnesses then he is to be lashed with 80 lashes in front of the Muslim community, but is not killed. It is the false accuser who is lashed while the witnesses are neither killed nor lashed. Please remember that the Muslim witnesses were never false and they were never punished. Only false accusers were punished with 80 lashes only, but they were not killed.

5. I request all writers to be careful about the Islamic Laws and Commands. Whatever they write, they must be sure that they are presenting correct statements from the Holy Quraan and/or Sunnah. They must remember that their wrong statement will result in horrible punishment to them in the Hereafter.

6. This is true that in the Jewish law there is the punishment of stoning to death of the married adulterer. They had changed this law and instead used to flog the criminal and blacken his/her face and then make him/her sit on a donkey with their faces backward so that people could see them. When they brought such a case to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, He said that the punishment was stoning to death (because the criminal was married). But they didn't accept the truth of their own law. The Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked them about the punishment for such case in the Tawrah, they said that it was to flog the sinner and make him sit on a donkey with blacken face. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked their rabbis on oath whether that was the punishment for adultery by a married couple. They all but one answered that it was so. The one who kept quiet was Ibn Surya who was considered to be the greatest scholar of the Tawrah. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam addressed him and asked, "I want you to swear by that God Who saved your people from the Pharaoh and gave you the Law on the Tur and answer whether it is this same punishment for (married )adulterer in the Tawrah, that these people tell."
He said, "I would never have confessed that the punishment of adultery ( of married criminal ) is stoning to death, if you had not laid upon me such a heavy oath. The fact is that when adultery became common among us, the judges would let the offenders go if they happened to be big people. As this difference caused great discontent among the common people, we changed the law that instead of stoning the sinners to death, they should be flogged and mounted on a donkey with blackened faces".

After this case no other course was left for the Jews and the culprits were stoned to death by the order of the Holy Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.

Allah knows best the exact situation. I stated what I remember from the tafseer of verses 42 and 43 of surah Al-Ma'idah. Please read the E.N.70 of The Meaning of The Qur'aan, volume 1 ( S. Abul A'Ala Maududi).

Tawrah was the Book of Allah, Quraan is also the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam also came down from Allah. Therefore the source of the law is the same and that is Allah The LORD of the worlds.