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MuslimInshallah
11-10-2014, 06:56 AM
Assalaamu alaikum,


(smile) Hmm, such a fragrant potpourri of ideas I find on the Forum lately. But let me chose one scent amongst the others.


Muslims versus non-Muslims, rich versus poor, educated versus non-educated, East versus West…? Is our life really so binary? So black and white?


It is so nice and easy to think about the world this way, isn't it? It helps us know which “side” to be on... (sigh) or does it?


(smile) Last Friday, a khatib gave an interesting khutbah at a local masjid. He tackled this question. Where is the real division? And he had an interesting answer, I think. He said: It is not a question of Jews or Christians vs Muslims, of East vs West, or rich vs poor or even atheists vs believers, or any other false divides we hear of. It is the oppressors who should be looked at, no matter what their affiliation. Whether the person is rich or poor, if he is oppressing another, we Muslims are called to act. Whether the person is a Muslim or not, if he is being oppressed, we Muslims are called to act. No matter where the oppression occurs, we are called to act.


That was what he was discussing. But I think we could go further.


How can we act? It seems to me that this depends on each person's possibilities and each different situation. (sad) Defensive warfare may be a necessity, when all else fails... But political actions may be possible, and should be explored. Strengthening Imaan is another vital action. Helping those lacking knowledge and skills, to learn and open up employment opportunities is another way to combat perhaps more subtle oppressions. Or giving basic necessities when they are desperately needed. It could be informing people of what is happening around them, or on the other side of the world. It could be building bridges between mistrustful communities of people... It is not a question of doing nothing or open warfare. There are many, many different ways we Muslims can act to help others. And not just Muslims. But all humans. We are all Allah's creations, we are all descended from the First Couple (AS).


All humans... and that means the oppressors, too.


Jabirb. Abdullah reported that two young men, one from the Muhajirin (emigrants) and the other one from the Angr (helpers) fell into dispute and the Muhajir called his fellow Muhajirin, and the Ansari (the helper) called the Ansar (for help). In the meanwhile, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came there and said:
What is this, the proclamation of the days of jahiliya (ignorance)? They said: Allah's Messenger, there is nothing serious. The two young men fell into dispute and the one struck at the back of the other.Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Well, a person should help his brother whether he is an oppressor or an oppressed. If he is the oppressor he should prevent him from doing it, for that is his help; and if he is the oppressed he should be helped (against oppression).




Reference : Sahih Muslim 2584 a
In-book reference : Book 45, Hadith 80
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 32, Hadith 6254
(deprecated numbering scheme)


When a person oppresses another, he/she wrongs him/herself, too. They will have to pay a price for their wrongdoing. So we must stop them from oppressing, not because we hate them, but because we care about them. We want to do something good for them, as well as for the people they are oppressing.


(lovingly) My brothers and sisters in Islam, our real enemy is the Shaitan. He wants so much for us to fail. All those “us” vs “them” whispers are just to divide and conquer we humans. When we simplify the realities of this life to good versus evil groups, we fall into hatred and blindness. And we end up behaving like the people that we hate. Because the opposite of love is not hate. It is indifference. When you hate someone, you are as obsessed with them as if you loved them. And you start to become like the object of your hatred, I find.


Allah says repeatedly in the Qur'an that he does not Love those who do wrong, who oppress. But He does Care. He Reminds us again and again, how Open He Is to those repent. And He Reminds us all, to not cross the limits of decent behaviour.


Qur'an 2:190


Sahih International
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors.


Qur'an 42:42


Sahih International
The cause is only against the ones who wrong the people and tyrannize upon the earth without right. Those will have a painful punishment.


Qur'an 49:9


Sahih International
And if two factions among the believers should fight, then make settlement between the two. But if one of them oppresses the other, then fight against the one that oppresses until it returns to the ordinance of Allah . And if it returns, then make settlement between them in justice and act justly. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.


And there are others passages... the point is, no matter who the oppressors are, we must oppose them. It is not a question of either a liberating West against the evils of ISIS, or the evil West against the virtuous forces of the IS (for instance). Whoever is causing oppression is in the wrong. It is possible that both parties engaged in warfare may be doing wrong. It is possible that some of one or both parties are doing wrong, but that others are not. It is possible that some of one or both parties may be fundamentally misunderstanding one another and thinking that they each are defending themselves against an aggressor... and there may be other possibilities. We must always keep our hearts and minds clear: we oppose oppression and wrongdoing. Not people with different religious understandings, not people with different cultures or levels of wealth, or ethnicity, or geographic location, or...whatever we use to divide ourselves into two camps.


Muslims oppose oppressors.With care.


May Allah, the Sublime and Oft-Forgiving, have Compassion and Mercy on us, and Protect us from the whispers of the Shaitan.
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Eric H
11-10-2014, 09:19 AM
Greetings and peace be with you MuslimInshallah;

Thanks for sharing, yesterday was Remembrance Sunday, and we are reminded of the evils of oppression. We had a French speaker and a German one at our service, he reminded us that peace was more than the absence of wars, what we experience is a kind of cease fire between wars, this is not peace.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
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Eshai
11-10-2014, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Qur'an 2:190


Sahih International
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors.
Can this be saying, do what you can to stop oppressors, but do not become an oppressor yourself in the process?

What if there is no choice? What if there is a course of action which must be taken, but would also force one into becoming an oppressor? Depending on the situation, are the "necessary evils" permissible? And what happens when inaction makes one an oppressor? For is not the passive support of oppression facilitating that oppression?

An example of this: in war, troops burn the crops of civilian villagers in order to stop the enemy from taking that food as supplies. This causes the villagers to starve along with the enemy. Would this be an example of "becoming a transgressor," and would it not be permissive even if the action was believed to be for a greater good?



Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Muslims versus non-Muslims, rich versus poor, educated versus non-educated, East versus West…? Is our life really so binary? So black and white?
Is it not equally a black and white perspective to think it is "good humanity" VS "oppressive humanity," when you yourself have indicated very clearly that the world is actually very complex with many peoples doing right and wrong actions intermixed? Nothing is what it seems. It is not easy to determine who is the oppressor and who is the liberator. Much of this depends on perspective.

If you take the religious perspective, there is a good side and an evil side? Those who follow God's word, and those who do not. Those who follow God's word and are sincere are good, and those who do not are evil (or simply not as good). Is this not so? Religion by its very nature is binary in this manner and creates such divisions.
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greenhill
11-10-2014, 03:11 PM
Being an oppressor is to deny basic human rights to people. It is most clearly practised in situations where there's privileges to be maintained.

I guess, if there were to be one needs clarity (black and white) let it be this one.

As in any life situation, some hard decision will come our way and it won't be so easy to do. As the saying goes sometimes, "it's cruel to be kind".

Peace :shade:
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ardianto
11-11-2014, 12:10 AM
Wa'alaikumsalam

I remember the time when I was young, naughty, and sometime involved in street fighting alongside with my friends. But there was a case which I fought my own friends to protect someone else. I did it because I could not let them beat someone who actually not guilty. I didn't care if my friends regard me as traitor. For me, a fighter must stand with those who are oppressed, not stand with the oppressor, whoever the oppressor.

Solidarity and loyalty to the group is something that the men learn in their socialization (this is one package). It's good. But it also could make the men be 'blind' and could not differentiate which the right, which the wrong. For them, their group is always right. That's why there are men who do not feel guilty when they stand alongside the oppressor to oppress the innocent.

So, we should teach our boys to not have principle "Right or wrong, it's my group", and teach them that the real fighter is someone who stand together those who are oppressed.
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ardianto
11-11-2014, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you MuslimInshallah;

Thanks for sharing, yesterday was Remembrance Sunday, and we are reminded of the evils of oppression. We had a French speaker and a German one at our service, he reminded us that peace was more than the absence of wars, what we experience is a kind of cease fire between wars, this is not peace.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
Greeting and peace be with you, sir.

There was an event that I never forget. It's happened on a street at one night. Me and my group were almost fight other group. But then came a man who was known as reputable street fighter. He invited us to sit together and asked both parties to talk. Then he advised us to forgive each other. It made us ashamed.

"Violence is not the right way to resolve a dispute. Do not fight, but talk to find a way out". This is the great lesson that I have learned from a fighter.

:)
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MuslimInshallah
11-12-2014, 03:50 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,


It has been argued that we could divide the world into “oppressors”and “liberators”. Or “oppressive humanity” vs “good humanity”.

(twinkle) What happened to the oppressed?

(smile) Anyway, this is just a variation on the theme of dividing the world into two neat camps, so that we can justify our own wrongdoings. Because the “we” tend to be, of course, the“liberators” (no one labels themselves as oppressors).

(smile) The reality of humanity is, that we are all capable of wrongdoing, of oppressing others. And we may also be mistreated. Be the oppressed. But there is also another possibility: that we neither wrong another, nor suffer under oppression, but that we live with one another in a fairly decent manner. And, it seems to me, that this is a fairly common way we interact with one another.


Let me give an example. As a child, I was best friends with the most popular girl in the primary level of my boarding school. She was very cute and pretty, and her mother gave her many gifts that everyone admired. I was awkward and tomboyish, but I was clever with words.When my best friend wanted to put another girl down, I was always ready with unkind, funny words, to hurt the other girl. And I felt strong and powerful and important. Really, I made life very unpleasant for two girls in particular. I oppressed them.


(smile) But Allah had Mercy on me, and Gave me pneumonia. I was away from school for some time recovering. When I came back, I discovered that my best friend had found another girl to be her loyal lieutenant. And I had become one of the outcast girls. And it was not pleasant. I came to realize just how much I had wronged the other girls before.


But Allah had Mercy on me again, and we moved to another place, and I started a new school. And here, I was neither a mean girl, nor an outcast. I had a couple of closer friends, but I was ok with everyone in the class. And they were ok with everyone, too. (smile) It doesn't mean that no one ever had little fights. But there was nothing I would term as oppressive.


(smile) You know, after a few years, I went back to my boarding school for a visit. And I met my old best friend there. And I learnt that the girl who had replaced me as loyal lieutenant, had “liberated” the other girls from my friend... so that she could become the top girl herself. And my friend had become one of the outcast. (smile) The“liberator” was just another oppressor.


(smile) We can all chose to wrong another person. And we can all chose not to. When we say that there are no choices, what we mean is, is that there are no choices that we want to accept. I could have chosen not to use my tongue to hurt others. I could have chosen to seek counsel as to how to deal with the unhealthy atmosphere in my boarding school. I could have chosen to try to understand what was motivating my best friend to behave the way she did, and tried to use my gifts to perhaps heal her. I could have been kind to the two outcast girls, and perhaps influenced others to be better with them, too. I could have prayed for Guidance. And there are probably many other choices I could have made, if I had really set my mind to looking for alternatives.


(smile) And as for more “serious” situations like war? (amused) You know, one of my sons is a history buff. He particularly enjoys military history. He tells me all sorts of things about what he has read. And sometimes, I read some of his books myself.


What is very clear, is how many military decisions are based on the egos, whims and petty desires of those in power. Even “just” wars are littered with incompetence and greed and anger and pride and… all the other weaknesses of the human Self. From the foot soldiers to the generals to the political leaders, we all make decisions as humans on what we choose to do. There are always choices. And sometimes we make the real hard choices, the ones that are not easy for ourselves. But too often we make the false hard choices. The ones that are not easy for others, though we may try to convince ourselves that we had no choice but to inflict a wrong on another person or group of people.


(smile) But the study of history is not just filled with human weakness. There are also examples of people who made the real hard choices, the ones who refused to bow to wrongdoing. Sometimes we hear of them, a little. But often, we don't. I think there are actually many stories that could be told in this category, but for various reasons (modesty, feelings of guilt for not having been able to do more, political gain to be made of elaborating certain stories more than others, the guilt of those who witnessed and do not want to be known for their own roles in a happening, for instance), there are often not so many details about these. But the people who struggled and overcame their weaknesses are the ones who are successful... in God's Eyes.


And God, the One Who Holds us all to account, is, really, the Only One who matters.


All the fame, power, property, satiating of lust... is worth nothing, in the end. It is completely meaningless. Only the little amount of beauty that our hearts may have acquired during our time on this Earth, gives meaning to our lives. The effects of our deeds on ourselves are all that lasts.


May Allah, the Exalter and the Abaser, Help us to beautify our hearts.
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Eshai
11-12-2014, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
What happened to the oppressed?
Since wrong is being done to them (for they are the ones being oppressed), aren't they a part of the good humanity?
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Pygoscelis
11-13-2014, 07:49 AM
Originally Posted by Eshai
If you take the religious perspective, there is a good side and an evil side? Those who follow God's word, and those who do not. Those who follow God's word and are sincere are good, and those who do not are evil (or simply not as good). Is this not so? Religion by its very nature is binary in this manner and creates such divisions.
Good point. The concepts of good and evil are in their very nature binary. This is especially divisive if you declare some people to be good and others to be evil, especially if you do it based on who belongs to your religion, but even if you do it in some other way. Behaviours can be constructive and harmonious or destructive and divisive, but to say that people themselves are good or evil is to cause the divisions complained of in the opening post. I have long said that "Evil" is what we call people that we want to feel good about hating (and possibly abusing and oppressing). It is literally demonizing people.

Sahih International
And if two factions among the believers should fight, then make settlement between the two. But if one of them oppresses the other, then fight against the one that oppresses until it returns to the ordinance of Allah . And if it returns, then make settlement between them in justice and act justly. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
When read by a non-muslim, this really makes you wonder.... what if the oppressor faction is Muslim, and the oppressed faction is not?
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MuslimInshallah
11-13-2014, 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

what if the oppressor faction is Muslim, and the oppressed faction is not?
Greetings Pygoscelis,

(smile) This is a good point to raise, as there are many misunderstandings about this.

God does not Love wrongdoing, regardless of what labels we affix to ourselves. If you read about the life of the Prophet Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be upon him), you will see that there were cases when members of the Muslim community wronged non-Muslims. And the Prophet (PBUH) ruled in favour of the non-Muslims.

(smile) I hope this clarifies this point for you, Pygoscelis.

May you find His Light shining into your life.
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ardianto
11-13-2014, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum,


It has been argued that we could divide the world into “oppressors”and “liberators”. Or “oppressive humanity” vs “good humanity”.

(twinkle) What happened to the oppressed?
Wa'alaikumsalam

There is Indonesian proverb which say "Two elephants fight, mouse-deer dies in the middle". It can describe fate of the oppressed, when the oppressor and the liberator fight each other, the oppressed become the victims.

If the oppressed were survived?. There is another proverb. "Escaped from tiger mouth, fall into crocodile mouth". It can describe fate of people which liberated, but then oppressed again by the liberator that turn into the new oppressor.

Indeed, many liberators actually are the oppressor that want to take over another oppressor position.
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greenhill
11-13-2014, 03:55 PM
Hmmmm..

The new oppression weapon, wealth. So few controlling so much. How do you fight it? The world will be the slaves, and governments eventually reduced to puppets.

Rather a fatalistic view. But what's the shape of the new world oppression? Maybe I'm not saying it all correctly as it's spontaneous thoughts, but if we really look at it, we only have rights if we can afford it. Don't have the means, then we can't enjoy the rights. How do we fight for our rights when we can't even afford a lawyer?
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M.I.A.
11-13-2014, 09:40 PM
every person fights with the character they have been given, the irony does not escape me when OP wrote we are called to act.

the quran states that mankind is insolence and competition and yet not many would consider themselves described as such.


worse still, what does the world perceive of your actions? at what cost does victory ever come? and ultimately.. is it what the masses want.

is it what allah swt wants?

or is it action simply to wrong your own souls by?



the truth is that you should become a pacifist for a while, then you will realise who, what, where, when..

you should become generous for a while, it gives great insight.

maybe hold your tongue for a while.


the list goes on.

or you could simply do as you are and see where it gets you or struggle against it and see if things change.


to be fair, mankind is insolence and competition.. fight for what you want to be a part of.



in the end you can throw money at things and they wont change, you can council people and they will still make the same mistakes you made.

or you could tread on fools and only pick fights you can win.


its like opening a market stall, who turns up... god or the devil?
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Muhaba
11-13-2014, 10:00 PM
I think the real enemy is the naf amara. Personal self-interest always wins. People do what benefits them even if it harms others (and themselves in the long-run).
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M.I.A.
11-15-2014, 01:59 AM
the answer is people.


people turn up.
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ardianto
11-15-2014, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
the answer is people.


people turn up.
Not the people, but the wrongdoing that we must fight. We cannot fight the others just because they are from different group. The only right reason to fight is to stop some people do wrong things toward the others.
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M.I.A.
11-16-2014, 03:37 AM
well i guess that allah swt decides between us whenever we do.. or is that not how it works?

anyway nobody is perfect although we dont all learn our lessons.
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Freya
11-18-2014, 11:14 PM
I really hate how people phrase questions like these.
Why say "who is our real enemy? Who should we fight". Why not ponder on whether or not an enemy actually exists and whether or not you should fight at all. Posing a question like this then having it followed by a state asserting the result of the question before answered just makes it logically unsound
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Eshai
11-19-2014, 12:19 PM
Well, Freya, unfortunately enemies do exist in the world. So that question has already been answered.

People have to stand for what they believe in, or else they don't really believe in it.

The apt questions are: What is injustice, and what injustices specifically warrant taking up arms and resulting to physical force? For the Muslim, these questions have already been answered as well. The answers are in the Qur'an. But in the world, it is not always easy to tell when true injustice has been committed which requires force to rectify.
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Pygoscelis
11-19-2014, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by FreyasSlaveGirl
I really hate how people phrase questions like these.
Why say "who is our real enemy? Who should we fight". Why not ponder on whether or not an enemy actually exists and whether or not you should fight at all. Posing a question like this then having it followed by a state asserting the result of the question before answered just makes it logically unsound
Good point. It assumes an enemy before we even explore the issue. I think the better question is "What should we fight" and "what should we fight for". Focus on problems and issues and mental states and oppression usually yields better results than pointing fingers at individuals.
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ardianto
11-19-2014, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by Eshai
unfortunately enemies do exist in the world.
One day when I was in a place coincidentally I met a guy. We stared each other. Then he asked me
"Aren't you ......... ?"
"Yes, I am"
"Oh, I am sorry. Did I hit you that day?'
"No, no. But I hit you. I am sorry. I hope it didn't hurt you".

We smile, hand shake, introduced each other, and I got new friend.

That was the second time I met him. The first meeting happened in a group fight which he tried to attack me, but I hit him in his face that made him fell. Yes, we fought each other. However, we didn't see each other as enemy, but just rival. That's why later we could be friend.

Do enemies exist?. Enemies exist if we create them, and would not exist if we didn't create them. The others may fight us. But if we see them as enemy, then our heart would be filled by hatred that would make us have no mercy, have no will to make a peace.

So, do not ever see the others as enemy, even if they fight us. :)
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Abz2000
11-19-2014, 06:13 PM
Assalamu'alaikum wr wb,

From what little i've learned so far it's not always about "who" but "what", although it's often "who" too.

When we say: wa na'udhubillahi min shuroori anfusina wa min sayyi-aati a'malina.
We are referring to the resilts of whisperings and deeds that come out of us - us meaning self and mankind.

A general method of the inadequate/narrow minded is to just turn it into "teams" blindly.
Thereby justifying any act as reasonable since its about winning against the "other" team and not actually about true success.

There is throughout history always a hierarchy which utilizes this base trait in humans and feeds off greed and selfishness.

Allah describes pharaoh as one of these manipulators in the opening verses of surah al qasas ch.28.

Some also draw fake boundaries and create a tribal sentiment.

I remember once being told by a desperate person: it's "God against Allah" lol.

It is interesting to note in the previous scripture that Musa (as) asks Allah who he should say sent him? and the reply is: "i am what i am",
So instead of giving Pharaoh a name to compete with, he comes with a description
(no room for "God vs Allah").
Seems to be corroborated by the Quran since Pharaoh asks
"what is the Lord of the worlds" instead of "who".

I am better than he,
Me fire,
Him clay.
(mentality behind nationalism).

If we see ourselves in our true place equally as slaves of Almighty God, all the false divides come crashing down and the only divide remaining is based on what Allah says and conduct, rather than ego.



Instead, A moral divide does form based on truth and falsehood, justice and oppression in place of cain vs abel, left wing vs right wing.

And some people will inevitably become of Hizb Allah and Hizb as Shaytaan based on adherence to standards, though, like with Khaalid, Umar and Abu Sufyaan, be able to switch to right or wrong at any time.


Here's a statement attributed to the messenger of Allah pbuh
Interesting to note that he pbuh isn't recorded as saying "them" but twice describing the acts (which gives insight into the justifications of Yusuf (pbuh) and the believer in Pharaohs court (ra)):


Ka’b ibn Ujrah reported:
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, came to us while we were a group of nine.
The Prophet said, “Verily, tyrannical rulers will come after me and whoever affirms their lies and supports their oppression has nothing to do with me and I have nothing to do with him, and he will not drink with me at the fountain in Paradise.
Whoever does not affirm their lies and does not support their oppression is part of me and I am part of him, and he will drink with me at the fountain in Paradise.”
Source: Sunan An-Nasa’i 4207
Grade:*Sahih (authentic) according to Ibn Hajar

rعَنْ كَعْبِ بْنِ عُجْرَةَ قَال
خَرَجَ عَلَيْنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَنَحْنُ تِسْعَةٌ فَقَالَ*إِنَّهُ سَتَكُونُ بَعْدِي أُمَرَاءُ مَنْ صَدَّقَهُمْ بِكَذِبِهِمْ وَأَعَانَهُمْ عَلَى ظُلْمِهِمْ فَلَيْسَ مِنِّي وَلَسْتُ مِنْهُ وَلَيْسَ بِوَارِدٍ عَلَيَّ الْحَوْضَ وَمَنْ لَمْ يُصَدِّقْهُمْ بِكَذِبِهِمْ وَلَمْ يُعِنْهُمْ عَلَى ظُلْمِهِمْ فَهُوَ مِنِّي وَأَنَا مِنْهُ وَهُوَ وَارِدٌ عَلَيَّ الْحَوْضَ4207 سنن النسائي كتاب البيعة ذكر الوعيد لمن أعان أميرا على الظلمالمحدث ابن حجر العسقلاني خلاصة حكم المحدث صحيح

Notice how the man in pharaoh's court sees himself as a believer and neutrally advises them as "O my people" as if they are a neutral audience capable of considering and taking either path, while pharaoh is trying to be competitive based upon blind prejudice.
Shows wisdom in a prejudice tainted situation.
But in other situations we are reminded of Musa and Nuh (as) who asked for separation and judgement.
And Ibrahim (as) who cleared himself of those given to wrongdoing and as did Lut (as) too.

Ultimately it's the "what" on the day of judgement.
And "who" in regards to paradise and hell.

Does that mean you'll judge a liar and a truthful by the same yardstick and not give the benefit of the doubt to the one perceived as truthful?
Maybe not always, Ya'qub (as) called them liars for crying captured (benjamin) because they cried wolf (Yusuf) before because he knew Yusuf had a certain future and felt that they must be liars.
He was wrong the second time, but i don't blame him and you can see why.
It was a case of "who" in that situation based on past experience.

So many gray areas for the human to use his intellect.

Here's a short instructive experiment which shows how closely the "what" and "who" are intermingled and how they can also be confused/manipulated.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt0ucxOrPQE

May Allah guide us.
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