How do you make sense of monotheism?

[Freya]

I have been born a polytheist the very first time I realized there is more than one god that people worship throughout the world. Technically there are thousands. For my entire life I never considered nor understood monotheism especially people who say "there is only one god". How can you say there is only one god when there are people like me who have hundreds and the Hindus have millions. I could never bring myself ti disrespect the validity of another god. Those gods are worshiped and revered so saying there is only one god does not make sense to me.

Please explain to me why you Muslims worship one god despite the religions across the world having different gods. How do you even make sense of this? I have personally become weakened by the fact I am a polytheist and I am questioning after so many years of my life

[Good brother]

The first religious fundamental to which Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) called to, was Tawheed (the Oneness of Allah), which is expressed by the testification, ‘La ilaha illa Allah’ (meaning, none has the right to be worshiped except Allah).

This may help:
http://sunnahonline.com/library/the-...ion-of-god-the
http://muslim-responses.com/Tawheed/Tawheed_

[greenhill]

This is not easy to answer as if it was, there would have been no doubt in the first place. What makes even harder is the fact that Allah would not reveal Himself 'personally'.

Essentially, what is God? It is hard to imagine that, and we as humans, tend to put human characteristics unto Him in order to understand. It cannot be that god is not absolute; That He 'shares' His power with other gods or that He has no authority in areas not His. There would surely be conflict.

In short, the muslims believe that there is only one God, and His name is Allah. He is the same God that created Adam (pbuh) and all the other prophets since, ending with Muhammad saw.

During the time of Adam, He was called Allah which over subsequent generations became a generic term as opposed to His name. As subsequent generations grew in numbers, the concept of Allah became the concept of deity and with Allah remaining unseen and no instant retribution for wrong doings, people started to stray from the unseen God to create their own versions which over more generations became plenty.

So how do the muslims believe in this one God still? Because of the Quran and the examples of the prophet Muhammad (saw). Because the stories of all the prophets in the Quran shows consistencies in the preachings since Adam and how mankind has always deviated from the true teachings hence needing reminders. Because the Allah has given us the intellect to make the decision and choose our own paths with the bottom-line that you earn what you sow and hence accountable for your own actions (or inaction). Because if there was a God, He must be the ALL POWERFUL and cannot be countermanded by other gods. We really cannot be waiting for a judgment that is dependent upon the gods arguing amongst themselves to give a verdict. That does not make any sense.

:peace:

[AabiruSabeel]

Allah :swt: says in the Holy Qur'an:


[27:59] Say, [O Muhammad], "Praise be to Allah , and peace upon His servants whom He has chosen. Is Allah better or what they associate with Him?"

[27:60] [More precisely], is He [not best] who created the heavens and the earth and sent down for you rain from the sky, causing to grow thereby gardens of joyful beauty which you could not [otherwise] have grown the trees thereof? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but they are a people who ascribe equals [to Him].

[27:61] Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground and placed within it rivers and made for it firmly set mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but most of them do not know.

[27:62] Is He [not best] who responds to the desperate one when he calls upon Him and removes evil and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Little do you remember.

[27:63] Is He [not best] who guides you through the darknesses of the land and sea and who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy? Is there a deity with Allah ? High is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

[27:64] Is He [not best] who begins creation and then repeats it and who provides for you from the heaven and earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

[27:65] Say, "None in the heavens and earth knows the unseen except Allah , and they do not perceive when they will be resurrected."

[27:66] Rather, their knowledge is arrested concerning the Hereafter. Rather, they are in doubt about it. Rather, they are, concerning it, blind.

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[Freya]

This is not easy to answer as if it was, there would have been no doubt in the first place. What makes even harder is the fact that Allah would not reveal Himself 'personally'.

Essentially, what is God? It is hard to imagine that, and we as humans, tend to put human characteristics unto Him in order to understand. It cannot be that god is not absolute; That He 'shares' His power with other gods or that He has no authority in areas not His. There would surely be conflict.

In short, the muslims believe that there is only one God, and His name is Allah. He is the same God that created Adam (pbuh) and all the other prophets since, ending with Muhammad saw.

During the time of Adam, He was called Allah which over subsequent generations became a generic term as opposed to His name. As subsequent generations grew in numbers, the concept of Allah became the concept of deity and with Allah remaining unseen and no instant retribution for wrong doings, people started to stray from the unseen God to create their own versions which over more generations became plenty.

So how do the muslims believe in this one God still? Because of the Quran and the examples of the prophet Muhammad (saw). Because the stories of all the prophets in the Quran shows consistencies in the preachings since Adam and how mankind has always deviated from the true teachings hence needing reminders. Because the Allah has given us the intellect to make the decision and choose our own paths with the bottom-line that you earn what you sow and hence accountable for your own actions (or inaction). Because if there was a God, He must be the ALL POWERFUL and cannot be countermanded by other gods. We really cannot be waiting for a judgment that is dependent upon the gods arguing amongst themselves to give a verdict. That does not make any sense.

:peace:

Really depends on the person but not all polytheist assert that a multitude of gods have personalities besides one. Many will say they all have one will even so it seems unnecessary to me. If you have a multitude of gods with one desire then why not assert one god with one desire. I guess this is how polytheists like myself have tried rationalizing it.
My sister converted to Islam a year ago and keeps telling me polytheism is an inferior belief and as of now I really think I understand her.

But do you believe that other gods still exist or do you think they are made up? Not many people understand or have even heard of your god so if you say only your god exists why is he not present in other nations and lands?

[syed_z]

But do you believe that other gods still exist or do you think they are made up? Not many people understand or have even heard of your god so if you say only your god exists why is he not present in other nations and lands?

There is A Verse in the Quran that gives you a very logic parable for you to think if there really could be any rivals with One and Only Supreme Being Himself or are they made up:

(30:28) He propounds unto you a parable drawn from your own life: Would you (agree to) have some of those whom your right hand possess (i.e. persons subjected to your authority or slaves) as (full fledged partners) in whatever We may have bestowed upon you as sustenance, so that you (and they) would have equal shares in it, and you would fear (to make use of it without consulting) them, just as you might fear (the more powerful of) yours equals? (Asad Translation)

Asad Comments: 'Your equals' i.e. 'those who are equal to you in status'. The question is ofcourse rhetorical and must be answered in the negative. But if (so the implied argument goes) a human master would not willingly accept his slaves as full fledged partners - even though master and slave are essentially equal by virtue of the humanness common to both of them (Zamakhshari) - how can man regard created beings or things equal to Him Who is absolute Lord and Master, and is beyond comparison with anything that exists or could ever exist?

So if mankind would dislike to have a partner in their wealth or property then how can we assign a partner with the One Who owns the entire universe and Who never gave us any authority to do so?

[Insaanah]

I have been born a polytheist the very first time I realized there is more than one god that people worship throughout the world. Technically there are thousands. For my entire life I never considered nor understood monotheism especially people who say "there is only one god". How can you say there is only one god when there are people like me who have hundreds and the Hindus have millions. I could never bring myself ti disrespect the validity of another god. Those gods are worshiped and revered so saying there is only one god does not make sense to me.

Please explain to me why you Muslims worship one god despite the religions across the world having different gods. How do you even make sense of this? I have personally become weakened by the fact I am a polytheist and I am questioning after so many years of my life

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Imagine, a person has a mother who gave birth to him. Brought him up, loved him one of the greatest loves of all, provided him with everything, woke up in the middle of the night when he was ill, etc. But then this person says, how do I know that just you are my mother? You are nothing special. You are just one of many mothers I have. There are lots of women in the world and they are all my mothers, and so therefore I am going to venerate and respect them the same as I do you, they all deserve that same veneration from me. And so he tries to seek out every woman in the world, so that he can give them the same love he gives his mum, the same respect, and serves them the same.

How can that be right, correct, or fair? How would his mother feel? This would be seen as him completely losing the plot.

That's just a very rough analogy. While we do not have a parental relationship with God, He created the universe, created us, and is the only One worthy of worship. He alone is our Lord.

There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.

He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, spouses, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.

He is eternal and does not die. He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.

There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.

He did not/does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.

He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.

There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense.

But do you believe that other gods still exist or do you think they are made up? Not many people understand or have even heard of your god so if you say only your god exists why is he not present in other nations and lands?

There are other people/objects which people falsely believe to be God. For example Jesus (peace be upon him). Yes, he existed. He was a human messenger sent by God to guide the children of Isra'il. But some have taken him to be God. There are many things/people that people falsely worship. But there is only One True God, the Creator of the Universe and Who created us, the only One worthy of worship and the only true God and Lord. He is not only "our" God, but everybody's God, whether they believe in Him or not or whether they acknowledge Him or not. Doesn't change the fact that He created us all. He does not dwell in certain lands. He is above the heavens, and is All Seeing, All Knowing, All Hearing, All Powerful.

Peace.

[greenhill]

Greetings,

do you believe that other gods still exist or do you think they are made up?

Of course I don't believe other gods exist. It is the first 'commandment' of faith - 'There IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ALLAH...' hence I suppose, by default then that humans created other gods.

Not many people understand or have even heard of your god so if you say only your god exists why is he not present in other nations and lands?

How can I answer this? I know people are aware of the Muslim God, only that they may be largely misinformed or not really interested to find out. (Mostly as a result of the negative media coverage). This statement also begs a 'reflection' to the first quote about why god is made up. Due to the misinformation, uncertainty, lack of knowledge on the subject etc which prompted many people in the past to 'create' their own versions of god. These 'created' deities were then 'protected' by the culture to prevent the practice from being abandoned for the 'truth' or measures taken by whichever religious clerics to prevent their followers from searching elsewhere..

If islam is acknowledged to be the fastest growing religion in the world today and over 1/5 of the people are muslims, it would then appear that it will be present in other lands and nations before too long. Only, will the people realise it when the calling arrives at their doorstep. Your sister has accepted the calling..... I hope you too will see the 'light'


:peace:

[Freya]

Greetings,


Of course I don't believe other gods exist. It is the first 'commandment' of faith - 'There IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ALLAH...' hence I suppose, by default then that humans created other gods.


How can I answer this? I know people are aware of the Muslim God, only that they may be largely misinformed or not really interested to find out. (Mostly as a result of the negative media coverage). This statement also begs a 'reflection' to the first quote about why god is made up. Due to the misinformation, uncertainty, lack of knowledge on the subject etc which prompted many people in the past to 'create' their own versions of god. These 'created' deities were then 'protected' by the culture to prevent the practice from being abandoned for the 'truth' or measures taken by whichever religious clerics to prevent their followers from searching elsewhere..

If islam is acknowledged to be the fastest growing religion in the world today and over 1/5 of the people are muslims, it would then appear that it will be present in other lands and nations before too long. Only, will the people realise it when the calling arrives at their doorstep. Your sister has accepted the calling..... I hope you too will see the 'light'


:peace:

Well what you said makes more sense than any of my conclusions and I have hence forth given up polytheism. My issue is that your conclusions are based on your religion and not from logic. I am not saying you are not logical or anything. As a pagan my religion is as loose as possible and lacks scripture.

How can you know people are aware of the Muslim god? I was never aware of this and was exposed to Islam moderately as a kid and always though Muslims were polytheists. I assumed everybody was polytheist.

Also, why would you want me to be a Muslim so badly? Why do you convert people to begin with? This is why I remained a polytheist for so long because it seems pointless to infringe on other people's culture. As a pagan my religion is my culture and saying you want me to be a Muslim is saying you want me to be Arab. My own sister is European and she prays in Arabic which is just weird.

[greenhill]

why would you want me to be a Muslim so badly? Why do you convert people to begin with? This is why I remained a polytheist for so long because it seems pointless to infringe on other people's culture.

It is not what I want or do not want. I am only 'hoping' that the reason for islam can be understood. There is no compulsion in religion and it is entirely up to the individual to decide. Islam is not a culture but more a 'way of life' that gives guidance how to interact in society in the cause of Allah.

As a pagan my religion is my culture and saying you want me to be a Muslim is saying you want me to be Arab. My own sister is European and she prays in Arabic which is just weird.

No, I am not an Arab, and I will never be an Arab, I don't look like an Arab neither do I speak or behave like an Arab. I am a muslim. If I stayed in England, behave like the English, speak their lingo, I will never be English. But the reason for reciting our prayers in Arabic has its roots in the protection of the message. Take the Bible for example, it was originally delivered in Aramaic. It was translated into Greek, and other languages, and the Aramaic version was lost (over time) and the English versions that we have was a translation of a translation. Subsequent updates has lead to the true meaning being diluted if not changed altogether. How can we verify the true message if the original one in Aramaic no longer exist?

The Quran has remained in its original language until today. If anyone is dubious with regards to the meaning, they may refer to the original text. I'll give an example here. When it was discovered that the world was not created in 6 days (and the 7th was a day of rest), they researched the Holy Books to find out what was said. Of course the other Books said 6 days but the Quran, upon detailed research found that the word 'day' also meant 'period', hence, the world was created in 6 periods. This translation would not have existed if the Quran had already changed to the various languages of the world and the original text abandoned and forgotten.

I was never aware of this and was exposed to Islam moderately as a kid and always though Muslims were polytheists. I assumed everybody was polytheist.

You have answered your own question here, although you were exposed to it, you misunderstood and assumed something different. No real difference to what is largely going around.


:peace:

[greenhill]

My issue is that your conclusions are based on your religion and not from logic. I am not saying you are not logical or anything. As a pagan my religion is as loose as possible and lacks scripture.

Another tough one!

Religion, not logic? Or is it the other way round? Or is it both together? I really have difficulties in differentiating this one. It is also faith and belief. Coupled with obvious truths scattered all over the Quran, (scientifically proven only in recent times with the advent of computers and technology what was totally unknown back when it was conveyed), really makes me consider the authenticity of the 'true message', not the deviant interpretations of it. To know, we have to study, use our intellect and reasoning. I find it wonderful to know that my fate is in my hands and the guideline is clear, bottom line is, 'live this world but prepare for the hereafter' or 'live this world to prepare for the hereafter'. To remember at all times that the hereafter is our permanent abode.

:peace:

[AmericanMuslim]

Going to add my 2 cents in:
Also think of this issue psychologically. You believe in multiple gods because it is how you were raised. It is not unlike a habit. For me personally: I was raised a Christian. But then I left the religion and tried Paganism for a while. I did not like it because you had to worship so many gods and goddesses. It was confusing, overwhelming, and didn't make sense in the end. And I never felt a connection within it. So when I converted to Islam, it felt normal for me to go back to Allah (SWT) because I was raised to worship him in the first place. (We all are born to worship him, but anyways).

[YusufNoor]

Really depends on the person but not all polytheist assert that a multitude of gods have personalities besides one. Many will say they all have one will even so it seems unnecessary to me. If you have a multitude of gods with one desire then why not assert one god with one desire. I guess this is how polytheists like myself have tried rationalizing it.
My sister converted to Islam a year ago and keeps telling me polytheism is an inferior belief and as of now I really think I understand her.

But do you believe that other gods still exist or do you think they are made up? Not many people understand or have even heard of your god so if you say only your god exists why is he not present in other nations and lands?

hi FSG,

there really isn't a "Muslim God", there is just the One Creator. everything else, including any innovations in Islam, is man made. period. Allah is above the heavens and the earth. His knows everything that happens everywhere, the is nothing that He is not aware of. Iblis/Shaytan/Satan is a condemned jinn. he was granted freedom, as we all have freedom, to turn mankind away from The One True God, Allah.

the absence of the knowledge of Allah is the work of jinn and mankind. we are free to disobey and worship other gods. that freedom is a gift. to freely worship and obey The One True God is like a very, very, special gift. the best gift that you could ever get. understanding the Oneness of Allah, as Insanah pointed out in Suaratul Ikhlas, is an amazing gift! ALL LOGIC FLOWS FROM THAT!

as Muslims, we are not that great at explaining Islam. The Qur'an does a pretty good job, though. when you hear or see Muslims "wanting you to be a Muslim so bad", it is because they want to share that greatest of gifts with you! it is done out of LOVE!

as far as logic, let me share 2 verses from the very first surah in the Qur'an:

Alhamdulillahi Rabbil Alamin.

that's 3 Arabic words. just 3!

let me explain them to you:

Alhamdulillahi is another way of saying "lillah al hamd." those are the 3 words constituting alhamdulillah. they mean: all true and heartfelt thanks (al hamd) is for Allah (lillah). we further break down Allah as al ilah. aa "ilah" is something you worship or believe is worthy of worship. it is like little g god. when you put the "al" in front of it, it becomes THE ONLY ONE WORTHY OF ALL WORSHIP. that is Allah

Rabb of Rabbil is many, many things. it means Creator, Provider, Sustainer, Cherisher and Healer and much more!

Alamin, based on most translations means all that has been created.

put it all together an Alhamdulillahi Rabbil Alamin means: All True and Heartfelt Thanks is for The Only One worthy of Worship, Who is the Creator, Provider, Sustainer, Cherisher and Healer of All that has been Created! That is also why we still use Arabic.

the other verse is:

Iyyaka na'budu wa Iyyaka nesta'een.

that's 5 words .one is wa, that is a conjunction. 2 of the words, Iyyaka, are the same. Iyyaka means You, referring to Allah, in this case.

to translate: in Allah, Alone we worship, and in Allah,Alone we seek guidance! by the way, THAT is Islam!

those 2 verses explain what Islam is and Who Allah is.

do you see the logic in that?

i hope this explains a few things for you.

with peace

[SofiaMonroe]

Salaam:)
Religion isn't and shouldn't be about culture. If it was, then no one would really believe in their religion. "Oh, I'm hindu because I'm indian" or whatever. There is one God who created the universe and everything in it. He is all powerful. He created all humans as well. Since He created all humans, He is a God for everyone. Not just one race or culture. There is no 'Muslim God'. There is just one God.

[Freya]

Salaam:)
Religion isn't and shouldn't be about culture. If it was, then no one would really believe in their religion. "Oh, I'm hindu because I'm indian" or whatever. There is one God who created the universe and everything in it. He is all powerful. He created all humans as well. Since He created all humans, He is a God for everyone. Not just one race or culture. There is no 'Muslim God'. There is just one God.

But is Islam not heavily rooted in Arab culture?
I am not saying that one should believe in something because it is in their culture. I am very supportive of multiculturalism and being biracial and having an European and Asian background, I am proud of this.
But religions on the other hand are just cultural elements apart of our culture and we should flourish with them and understand others. I have my own personal library in my home and it is filled with books. In it I have tons of religious texts and books on linguistics and languages.
I obviously adapt and mix what I like

[naba]

Islam is represented by Quran and authentic sayings of prophet.Allah in ch 2 v 83 says speak nicely to people, so u ddon't need culture for that!!! Allah commands us to be good to parents in ch 17 v 23-24, you don't need culture for that.in short islam is a way of life by which we strive to please Allah.means whatever I m doing I should keep in mind whether it plz or displz Allah.yes we muslims can jell up in any community but keeping commandments of Allah in priority.like I live in india during ramadan we muslims have to be in the company of non muslims who eat but we can't move away from them during our office hrs like in my case its hospital.so a muslim taking care of shariah can adjust in any situation.

[greenhill]

Peace to you freya,

I would disagree with the statement that Islam is rooted in Arab culture. It subsequently developed into their culture. Their culture before Islam was very different.

[Freya]

Peace to you freya,

I would disagree with the statement that Islam is rooted in Arab culture. It subsequently developed into their culture. Their culture before Islam was very different.

You are asserting that culture is static and ceases in change. Islam as far as I see it is just a change in Arabic culture.

I should not pray in Arabic or conform to a culturalized standard of religion to say "I understand god." If peoples gods claims universal power then surely it is lacking. The same goes for an Arab/Islamic god that requests worship in Arabic and does not surpass the Arab world. When I lived in Indonesia I would see people praying in Arabic yet they are in Southeast Asia. They had a culture before that and it was a fine one.

So this whole concept of Islamic monotheism seems to me to be Arab monotheism and an Arab innovation. It is a fine innovation but it is still centered towards the Arabs and the Arabs alone. The Shiya are Persians mostly and the Persian/Arab split in Islam is obvious considering that the Shiya just fuzed Zorrostrianism with Islam to accelerate people as gods.

When I see my little sister praying to God in Arabic it is just as odd as can be considering that she is not an Arab in the slightest bit. She is a Nordd and she be proud of it. Understanding a culture is one thing but assimilating it thinking it is sacred seems strange

[Insaanah]

Freja, you said Islam is rooted in Arab culture, which I'm afraid is a wrong understanding. The last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), was an Arab, but not all were. Islam is not linked to a specific culture. I'll approach the prayers in Arabic issue afterwards. Islam is not a new innovation, but quite the contrary - it was what has always been, the original and true and natural religion and way of life, ordained for man by God.

Allah has sent a succession of prophets to people throughout the ages, to convey His message to them, and with guidance to show people how He wants them to live and worship Him. Muslims believe in all the prophets Allah sent, and do not reject or blaspheme any of them, from Adam, to the last and final prophet, Muhammad, peace be on them all. They were the purest and noblest of humanity and were not divine in any way. Allah sent all the prophets with the same message and not different messages. All the prophets and messengers sent by God to humans to convey His message, conveyed the same message since the beginnig of time, regardless of when and which people they were sent to. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to Allah and worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet. They taught that people should be under no misperception that they can commit themselves to Allah as their Lord, and then combine this with accepting others as their Lord, or associating others in His Divinity, in whatever way. They taught that we should strive hard to translate our belief in the One True God into practice, by obeying Allah and the messengers He sent, who were also role models and examples for us, showing us practically how to put the guidance they were sent with into practice in our daily lives, explaining the scriptures, warning against wrong-doing, giving good tidings, and giving additional legislation from Allah.

So Islam is not a new faith, but is the same ultimate universal truth that God revealed to all the prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be on them), and the same thing they all taught. Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, the meaning loosely translating as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, places and peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.

With time, the message got forgotten or corrupted. So people started worshipping other gods along with Him, made idols, said that God begot a son, said that certain people were incarnations of God, some rejected belief in God altogether, while others elevated the status of some prophets to divine, or at the other end, rejected or blasphemed some of the prophets. Whenever God's message got distorted by people, or forgotten, a new messenger was sent, not with any new or changed message, but reinforcing the actual message that God sent all the messengers with, the actual core beliefs that people were taught from the beginning of humanity, confirming the true parts of previous teachings and scriptures, and correcting wrong beliefs and misconceptions that had crept in. God required that whenever He sent a new messenger, that messenger should be followed along with any new scripture given to him. This chain of messengers culminates in prophet Muhammad (peace on him), who is the last and final prophet and messenger. Since his prophethood, God's message is available unchanged and unadulterated, for the entire world, until the end of time. He wasn't sent as prophet and messenger for a specific group of people and specific time (e.g. as Moses and Jesus were to the Children of Israel), but he was sent for all the world, for all time, until the Day of Judgement. Thus he is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind, for now, and for all time to come. He is the messenger who must now be followed.

When Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the Children of Israel, the language of the scripture that God gave to him, and worship, was most likey in Aramaic. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last and final messenger sent for all mankind. He was born in Arabia, at a time when the Arabs were submerged in polytheistic culture, and badly needed reforming, and that place was therefore the hub from which Islam spread. Allah laid out the rules of worship, which include certain worship which must be in Arabic, and certain that can be in your own language. This is not because the culture is important, but because that was the language that Prophet Muhammads first followers spoke. If they didn't understand what was being sent to them, what is the point? Imagine sending them a book or instructions in Chinese! Having one language for the Qur'an and for certain acts of worship means when we read the Quran we all, whatever country we're from, recite the same thing, word for word. Any mistakes if someone makes them, can easily be spotted. And it's such a great feeling for universal brotherhood when you know you all pray the same way and read the same words, which, incidentally, are Gods words, not the words of any human.

[Freya]

Freja, you said Islam is rooted in Arab culture, which I'm afraid is a wrong understanding. The last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), was an Arab, but not all were. Islam is not linked to a specific culture. I'll approach the prayers in Arabic issue afterwards. Islam is not a new innovation, but quite the contrary - it was what has always been, the original and true and natural religion and way of life, ordained for man by God.

Allah has sent a succession of prophets to people throughout the ages, to convey His message to them, and with guidance to show people how He wants them to live and worship Him. Muslims believe in all the prophets Allah sent, and do not reject or blaspheme any of them, from Adam, to the last and final prophet, Muhammad, peace be on them all. They were the purest and noblest of humanity and were not divine in any way. Allah sent all the prophets with the same message and not different messages. All the prophets and messengers sent by God to humans to convey His message, conveyed the same message since the beginnig of time, regardless of when and which people they were sent to. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to Allah and worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet. They taught that people should be under no misperception that they can commit themselves to Allah as their Lord, and then combine this with accepting others as their Lord, or associating others in His Divinity, in whatever way. They taught that we should strive hard to translate our belief in the One True God into practice, by obeying Allah and the messengers He sent, who were also role models and examples for us, showing us practically how to put the guidance they were sent with into practice in our daily lives, explaining the scriptures, warning against wrong-doing, giving good tidings, and giving additional legislation from Allah.

So Islam is not a new faith, but is the same ultimate universal truth that God revealed to all the prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be on them), and the same thing they all taught. Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, the meaning loosely translating as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, places and peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.

With time, the message got forgotten or corrupted. So people started worshipping other gods along with Him, made idols, said that God begot a son, said that certain people were incarnations of God, some rejected belief in God altogether, while others elevated the status of some prophets to divine, or at the other end, rejected or blasphemed some of the prophets. Whenever God's message got distorted by people, or forgotten, a new messenger was sent, not with any new or changed message, but reinforcing the actual message that God sent all the messengers with, the actual core beliefs that people were taught from the beginning of humanity, confirming the true parts of previous teachings and scriptures, and correcting wrong beliefs and misconceptions that had crept in. God required that whenever He sent a new messenger, that messenger should be followed along with any new scripture given to him. This chain of messengers culminates in prophet Muhammad (peace on him), who is the last and final prophet and messenger. Since his prophethood, God's message is available unchanged and unadulterated, for the entire world, until the end of time. He wasn't sent as prophet and messenger for a specific group of people and specific time (e.g. as Moses and Jesus were to the Children of Israel), but he was sent for all the world, for all time, until the Day of Judgement. Thus he is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind, for now, and for all time to come. He is the messenger who must now be followed.

When Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the Children of Israel, the language of the scripture that God gave to him, and worship, was most likey in Aramaic. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last and final messenger sent for all mankind. He was born in Arabia, at a time when the Arabs were submerged in polytheistic culture, and badly needed reforming, and that place was therefore the hub from which Islam spread. Allah laid out the rules of worship, which include certain worship which must be in Arabic, and certain that can be in your own language. This is not because the culture is important, but because that was the language that Prophet Muhammads first followers spoke. If they didn't understand what was being sent to them, what is the point? Imagine sending them a book or instructions in Chinese! Having one language for the Qur'an and for certain acts of worship means when we read the Quran we all, whatever country we're from, recite the same thing, word for word. Any mistakes if someone makes them, can easily be spotted. And it's such a great feeling for universal brotherhood when you know you all pray the same way and read the same words, which, incidentally, are Gods words, not the words of any human.

This would make sense if true but what is the evidence for these claims? None of these claims have any existence in historical research. For example, Jesus has no historical existence in the Biblical sense in the slightest bit. I am curious to your conclusion on the basis of evidence and especially research

[Insaanah]

Jesus (peace be upon hm) very much existed, and is honoured in the Qur'an, and is one of our Prophets. Muslims love and respect Jesus (peace be upon him) and believe in him as he was; one of the noblest and purest of humanity to ever walk the earth, and one of the greatest messengers of Allah, sent to the Children of Israel. We do not reject him (as Jews do), nor do we go to the other wrong extreme of deifying him (as Christians do). Neither he, nor any other messenger, ever claimed divinity, or to be God's son. We believe he was born miraculously of the noble virgin Mary (peace be on her), and that he is the messiah. We do not however, believe that he died or was crucified. He'll return to earth near the end of time.

The evidence we have, is a scripture that is 100% the word of Allah, the creator of the universe. Not the word of any man who could have got it wrong. The Qur'an is the last and final scripture of God, the very words revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) via the angel Gabriel. It's message is for the entire world, until the world ends. It is because Allah has promised to preserve the Qur'an that there won't be any need for a new Prophet, because the message is, and will remain, intact. Thus it is fully preserved with no word in it coming from any human. It is 100% the word of God, unlike the other scriptures that we have with us today, that have been changed by humans - thus it supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form. It has no versions or editions. Millions of people from all over the world have it memorised and they all recite word for word the same thing. It contains the central message as already described, and practical guidance on how to live, stories of previous prophets from which to learn lessons, warnings, rules, comfort, solace, good tidings, and in it God corrects misconceptions people may have about Him or His prophets. It tells us what has always been expected from humans since the beginning of time; what He told His prophets to teach people since the beginning. That message never changed. The essence of Islam is what always was, and has always been, the true and natural religion; the way of all the Prophets, the original and only message.

So, next you may ask, how do I know that the Qur'an is the truth, is the word of God? From what I recall, I think there were threads on this in the past, so if I find them I'll post the links here in shaa Allah (God willing).

There's also another point I'd like to make. We should certainly satisfy oursleves that what we're following is the truth. I'd like to give a crude analogy if I may. Let's imagine a person called John, who's been through his childhood and has now reached adulthood. In his early years, his family wasn't very well off, so they didn't hav a camera. He has no phohtos of himself as a child until he got to about six years old. He doesn't look like any of his parents. His earliest memories are from about aged four or five. He does not remember his birth, did not see his birth, or whose womb he emerged from. Yet he knows, without a shadow of a doubt, that they are his parents who nurtured him. So what of our Creator, when the signs are all around us? John would never dream of saying to his parents, look, how do I know you're my parents? Where's the evidence? Until I have some, I'm not going to believe you're my parents. How do I know you didn't steal me from someone else. I want a DNA test. Ony when I have some hard evidence, will I accept that you're my parents. Again, I must stress, we do not have any type of a parental relationship with God but this is just by way of analogy.

We also, know, without a shadow of a doubt, that Allah alone is our Creator and the Creator of the universe, and is our Sustainer and Lord. We see the signs all around us. And with Him being Creator, God, and Lord, no word is truer than His. You see, historical research can change, even do a u-turn. Because it is carried out by flawed humans, making best guesses at things. One day x is true, the next day, it isn't true, y happened. We don't rely on such stuff for our beliefs.

Peace.

[greenhill]

Hi Freya,

"You are asserting that culture is static and ceases in change. Islam as far as I see it is just a change in Arabic culture."

Culture could be loosely described as an 'intellectual' way of life. The Malays are known to be Muslims for a thousand years. Especially in the northern region of Malaysia. So much so that to be Malay is synonymous to being muslim. There cannot be a Malay that was not a muslim.

So deep rooted was the faith, that it became a guiding force in the shaping of human interaction and culture. The culture did not remain static, neither did it totally changed. It evolved.

The main reason I joined this forum was to hear from the rest of world and their practice to weed out what has become culture my practice of the deen. As much as the Arabs are the "icon" for Islam (rightly or wrongly) it was very much the same here in Malaysia for the Malays. Their 'culture' became accepted as islamic practice. Perhaps the same in Indonesia (I don't know for sure).

The point I'm trying to make is, the sunnah is there as a living reference, the Quran is there as a texted guide. It applies to everyone. But over generations, things can creep into the way of practice, hence the effects of culture.

:peace:

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Freya; and welcome to the forum,

My issue is that your conclusions are based on your religion and not from logic. I am not saying you are not logical or anything. As a pagan my religion is as loose as possible and lacks scripture.

The same God hears all our prayers, we are all created by the same God, despite all our differences. It does not make sense that a god created the moon, another god created India, another god created life, another Hinduism, etc, it has been my experience that committees get very little done, and they don't work together very well.

The only God worth searching for, is the God who created the universe and life, if you are searching for God you have to do something, you have to be willing to change.

In the spirit of searching for the creator of all that is seen and unseen,

Eric

[Deistguy]

Newbie here, just to throw in a philosophical and scientific view. So if you take physics class you know that the universe is not infinite but actually began to exist some 13 billion or so years ago. This happened by an instance we usually call the big bang or the initial singularity, but what usually isn't discussed is how this big bang came to happen. Following the laws of logic and the natural laws of our finely ordered universe, something had to have caused it. Out of nothing, nothing comes. Given that space and time did not exist before the singularity, only a singular being with a will so unfathomably powerful, existing outside of space and time, could have done it.

['Abd-al Latif]

Newbie here, just to throw in a philosophical and scientific view. So if you take physics class you know that the universe is not infinite but actually began to exist some 13 billion or so years ago. This happened by an instance we usually call the big bang or the initial singularity, but what usually isn't discussed is how this big bang came to happen. Following the laws of logic and the natural laws of our finely ordered universe, something had to have caused it. Out of nothing, nothing comes. Given that space and time did not exist before the singularity, only a singular being with a will so unfathomably powerful, existing outside of space and time, could have done it.

Hmm. Interesting.

[greenhill]

Newbie here, just to throw in a philosophical and scientific view. So if you take physics class you know that the universe is not infinite but actually began to exist some 13 billion or so years ago. This happened by an instance we usually call the big bang or the initial singularity, but what usually isn't discussed is how this big bang came to happen. Following the laws of logic and the natural laws of our finely ordered universe, something had to have caused it. Out of nothing, nothing comes. Given that space and time did not exist before the singularity, only a singular being with a will so unfathomably powerful, existing outside of space and time, could have done it.

If I am not mistaken, this was touched upon in the extensive debate/discussion/argument in the thread related to evolution. It was never really addressed. The proposer for evolution can only argue their case after the initial cause 'caused' the start of creation, but refuse to accept that the same 'Causer' of things to happen, caused the changes in specie.. (getting off the topic here) Oh well....


:peace:

[Signor]

Hi Deistguy

Out of nothing, nothing comes. Given that space and time did not exist before the singularity, only a singular being with a will so unfathomably powerful, existing outside of space and time, could have done it.

A film came in my mind with your words and it will definitely help original poster



Hope it helps.

[BlueOwl358]

Newbie here as well. (Somehow, that word sounds like a nice title.) :shade:

Islam is not an Arab innovation nor an Arab form of monotheism. Nothing in the teachings of Islam point it to solely belonging or starting with the Arabs. The many Prophets mentioned in the Quran belong to numerous races most of which are not Arab. Which of the stated Prophets belongs to the Arab race?

"And We gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - all [of them] We guided. And Noah, We guided before; and among his descendants, David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the doers of good." -(Quran 6:34)

The Four Arab Prophets mentioned by name in the Quran are Hud, Salih, Ismail, Shuayb, Muhammed (pbut). The many others are not Arab. When Adam (pbuh) the first human was alive, mankind had not even divided into races yet this man was a Muslim. How can you say then that Islam is an "Arab innovation" when the direct message is from God, who is not comparable to Man or any creation.

Secondly, the claimed number of many gods or deity is nothing but a lie with no fact nor truth or any real indication. God is an all-powerful entity with infinite power, and a reality of polytheism would be a mere contradiction, since more than one entity cannot have the highest extent of power, that is like saying two humans can rule the Earth with absolute power, but absolute power can not be shared, the same reasons two Caliphs are forbidden. Fighting would break out, and in any war reality would have to be divided between the two entities, how then can they have infinite power when someone they equally oppose each other. How can a fighter be best yet have anyone of equal qualities? There is only one best and "God" aka "The God" has the ultimate power. Allah is Supreme, yet Polythiesm, by having numerous deities cannot have a Supreme being (due to power being divided, even if it is by 99 to 1) and throws the very concept of God (who can only be supreme and not un-supreme), out the window.

"They say, " Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him," (Quran 2:116)

To God belongs everything, and by having another deity with a full dominion on any piece of dirt or part of reality, would subtract from that concept of God's ultimate dominion. Islam only believes in a Supreme Entity to be God, and you cannot have A Supreme Entity along with along with another Supreme Entity, because that would cancel both of their Supreme power out and reduce the whole concept to nothing, and the only form of God that Islam accepts is a Supreme one. A deity with limited powers would not be God, and to be more grammatically precise, would not be Allah, since Allah, is The God.

You can't have someone rule all of Asia with full power yet have another person rule China by himself, it would be a contradiction.

The baseless lies that polytheists believe in are not God, nor the truth, but only beings with limited powers, the devils, who have limited powers and not the power necessary to be divine. Limited Powers = Not Divine. The thing that you want to please is not God, but only other beings of creation who can do nothing to tame the universe, despite travelling from one country to another in seconds. A Muslim does not fear Jinn and their anger since they can not do anything to harm them without God's permission. Why do you wish to please someone who is not God, nor a being who can do anything without real permission. Believing in a lie does not make it real, and God is all powerful, not a senseless stone idol nor a fire demon. It is better to please God, than to deny him for his creation. May God guide you, Ameen.

"They call upon instead of Him none but female [deities], and they [actually] call upon none but a rebellious Satan. Whom Allah has cursed. For he (Satan) had said, "I will surely take from among Your servants a specific portion. And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah ." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss. Satan promises them and arouses desire in them. But Satan does not promise them except delusion. The refuge of those will be Hell, and they will not find from it an escape." (Quran 4:177-121)

I tend to ramble... a lot.

-BlueOwl358
5

[MuslimInshallah]

Newbie here, just to throw in a philosophical and scientific view. So if you take physics class you know that the universe is not infinite but actually began to exist some 13 billion or so years ago. This happened by an instance we usually call the big bang or the initial singularity, but what usually isn't discussed is how this big bang came to happen. Following the laws of logic and the natural laws of our finely ordered universe, something had to have caused it. Out of nothing, nothing comes. Given that space and time did not exist before the singularity, only a singular being with a will so unfathomably powerful, existing outside of space and time, could have done it.

Peace to you Deistguy,

This intrigues me. Could you expand on it a little? Thank you.

May God, Who Sees and Knows, Bless you with insights.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you BlueOwl; and welcome to the forum,

God is an all-powerful entity with infinite power, and a reality of polytheism would be a mere contradiction, since more than one entity cannot have the highest extent of power, that is like saying two humans can rule the Earth with absolute power, but absolute power can not be shared,

If we are created by the same God, then we are connected to each other, we have a duty to care for God's creation and that has to mean caring for each other despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for justice and peace for all people,

Eric

[Insaanah]

Hi Freya,

Hope you're doing well.

So, next you may ask, how do I know that the Qur'an is the truth, is the word of God? From what I recall, I think there were threads on this in the past, so if I find them I'll post the links here in shaa Allah (God willing).

I found one of the posts, posted by another member, so thought it would be useful for you:

For a summary of some of the key points about the Qur'an's divine authorship, you can read:
Evidences For Qur'an's Divine Origin?

Also, another analogy, if I may.

Imagine you have the number 1. That number can be manipulated, by multiplying, dividing, adding or subtracting.

This is what various groups of people have wrongly done over the years with their beliefs about God.

Some have multiplied the number, and believe in many gods.

Others have divided the number, and believe in many gods in one, such as the trinity.

Some have added, by worshipping God, but then also worshipping and praying to others such as saints etc along with Him.

And others, such as atheists, have subtracted, by saying there is no God.

Regardless of this manipulation, the number 1 always remains the number 1 and cannot change.

So what is the original and true belief without any change or manipulation?

1.

1slam.

Peace.

[peaceandlove]

I have been born a polytheist the very first time I realized there is more than one god that people worship throughout the world. Technically there are thousands. For my entire life I never considered nor understood monotheism especially people who say "there is only one god". How can you say there is only one god when there are people like me who have hundreds and the Hindus have millions. I could never bring myself ti disrespect the validity of another god. Those gods are worshiped and revered so saying there is only one god does not make sense to me.

Please explain to me why you Muslims worship one god despite the religions across the world having different gods. How do you even make sense of this? I have personally become weakened by the fact I am a polytheist and I am questioning after so many years of my life

Quran says in 21:22 - "If there were in them (the Heavens and the Earth) other gods besides ALLAH, there would have been chaos. Glory be to ALLAH; the Lord with absolute authority. He is high above their claims."

Tell, us why did you choose only one leader for your contury president why not 2 or as you say created 1000 presidencies positions?

[Freya]

Quran says in 21:22 - "If there were in them (the Heavens and the Earth) other gods besides ALLAH, there would have been chaos. Glory be to ALLAH; the Lord with absolute authority. He is high above their claims."

Tell, us why did you choose only one leader for your contury president why not 2 or as you say created 1000 presidencies positions?

Presidents in America do not even hold a lot of power. Americans have 435 Representatives and 100 congressmen along with 1 president and his cabinet members. The president often times can't make a decision on things with his cabinet members because he is unknowledgeable about certain things. Asserting he is all knowing seems to be pushing the limits.
Not even Sweden has one body presiding over everything.
Do you not have angels in Islam?

[Muhammad]

Presidents in America do not even hold a lot of power. Americans have 435 Representatives and 100 congressmen along with 1 president and his cabinet members. The president often times can't make a decision on things with his cabinet members because he is unknowledgeable about certain things. Asserting he is all knowing seems to be pushing the limits.

A 'god' who does not hold a lot of power, needs others and is not all knowing is not a god in the first place, let alone deserving of being venerated and worshipped. So if the reason you worship many gods is because they all need the help of each other, you need to ask yourself what kind of gods are these.

Do you not have angels in Islam?

Read the Qur'an, for the theme of monotheism is made extremely clear:

Or have they taken gods besides Him? Say, [O Muhammad], "Produce your proof. This [Qur'an] is the message for those with me and the message of those before me." But most of them do not know the truth, so they are turning away.

And We sent not before you any messenger except that We revealed to him that, "There is no deity except Me, so worship Me."

And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, they are [but] honored servants.

They cannot precede Him in word, and they act by His command.

He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they cannot intercede except on behalf of one whom He approves. And they, from fear of Him, are apprehensive.

And whoever of them should say, "Indeed, I am a god besides Him"- that one We would recompense with Hell. Thus do We recompense the wrongdoers.

[Qur'an 21:24-29]