Why I can't be Muslim

[fschmidt]

1. The Quran is written in Arabic.
2. A translation of the Quran loses some of the original meaning.
3. Therefore a translation of the Quran is not the Quran.
4. I cannot read Arabic.
5. Therefore I cannot read the Quran.
6. Therefore I cannot judge the Quran.
7. The proof that Muhammed was a prophet is the Quran.
8. Since I cannot judge the Quran, I cannot judge whether Muhammed was a prophet.
9. Therefore I cannot rightly say that Muhammed was a prophet.
10. Therefore I cannot become Muslim.

[ardianto]

I guess, that is the response for the thread below

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...-religion.html

[Futuwwa]

I cannot read Arabic either, but I didn't need super duper advanced do-it-yourself exegesis to be convinced. If you think it's so essential, how about learning Arabic?

[greenhill]

Yup.

I don't understand maths. Hence I cannot do it and verify for myself that it is correct.

The Bible is also a translation of a translation but never got any serious questions raised on the lost in translation. At least the Quran has the original words that can be verified. The question is, do you?

:peace:

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[fschmidt]

Learning Arabic just to judge something that I am unsure about seems like a lot of work. I am learning Hebrew to understand the Old Testament better, and this really does help.


I loved the Old Testament when I read it. The Quran seems harder to understand for me. Also there is no demand in the Old Testament that I confirm that so-and-so is a prophet. I can just read it and apply it as I understand it at my own pace. I really love that.


I have ordered another Quran translation, this time by Arberry. I will give it a try. But if I can't relate to it, then I think my position is a fair one, not to judge the Quran or Muhammed either way since I don't understand enough to do so.

[greenhill]

I loved the Old Testament when I read it. The Quran seems harder to understand for me.

The Quran is the words of Allah kept verbatim. It is the highest level of language (each word packs a powerful punch) and concise. Hence the reason why it is probably harder to understand. I keep referring to Jeffrey Lang and his youtube video about "The purpose of life". It is about 90+ minutes long and the first half his talk refers to the creation of Adam.

Why I am giving this as an example? Because the way he explains what he found written in the Quran (He said each word packs a powerful punch [or words to the effect]). There is a distinct difference between the stories of the Testaments and the Quran. See the video and decide for yourself...it might be worth your while. If you can see it, perhaps you will see that the Quran is definitely different from the Testaments.

:peace:

[fschmidt]

I keep referring to Jeffrey Lang and his youtube video about "The purpose of life". It is about 90+ minutes long and the first half his talk refers to the creation of Adam.

I listened to the first 10 minutes and he said nothing. In the first 10 minutes of reading the Old Testament, the entire universe is created. Can you suggest something more at that pace?

[greenhill]

I listened to the first 10 minutes and he said nothing

His introduction is a bit long (necessary for people to understand where he is coming from)... but do stay on it... once you get past the first 10 minutes and he starts to go through the the creation of Adam (pbuh) it starts to get better (although he could still expedite the whole thing... but this is his talk, and I am glad he gave it). I still on occasion go back to listening...

:peace:

[sister herb]

Learning Arabic just to judge something that I am unsure about seems like a lot of work. I am learning Hebrew to understand the Old Testament better, and this really does help.

You have studied Hebrew? That´s a great start as Hebrew and Arabic are close relative languages. Before I started to study Arabic, I studied Hebrew first and it really helped with Arabic. Now you are already halfway learning Arabic.

Your list was just excuses - many Muslims don´t understand Arabic at all but still they can understand the message of Islam.

[Beyondalina]

1. The Quran is written in Arabic.
2. A translation of the Quran loses some of the original meaning.
3. Therefore a translation of the Quran is not the Quran.
4. I cannot read Arabic.
5. Therefore I cannot read the Quran.
6. Therefore I cannot judge the Quran.
7. The proof that Muhammed was a prophet is the Quran.
8. Since I cannot judge the Quran, I cannot judge whether Muhammed was a prophet.
9. Therefore I cannot rightly say that Muhammed was a prophet.
10. Therefore I cannot become Muslim.

This logic sounds rather funny to me.

1. The Quran is written in Arabic.
2. A translation of the Quran loses some of the original meaning.

Okay, true. A translation will lose SOME of the original meaning. But that doesn't mean everything of that translation is lost.

3. Therefore a translation of the Quran is not the Quran.

A translation may not be equal to the original but that doesn't mean that the translation has no merit or value.

4. I cannot read Arabic.
5. Therefore I cannot read the Quran.

But you can read the translation of the Quran, can you not?

6. Therefore I cannot judge the Quran.

I don't think anyone can judge the Quran or any holy scripture. God is the one who judges. Not us.

7. The proof that Muhammed was a prophet is the Quran.

Well, the Quran may be one such proof. Not the only one.

8. Since I cannot judge the Quran, I cannot judge whether Muhammed was a prophet.

Your reasoning is entirely faulty. We humans are not here on earth to judge holy scriptures and prophets.

9. Therefore I cannot rightly say that Muhammed was a prophet.

This statement of yours is based on faulty reasoning. It seems that you are in fact looking for excuses to reject Prophet Muhammed, the Quran and Islam. If so, you can find a thousand more excuses.

10. Therefore I cannot become Muslim.

Is there anyone forcing you to become one?

[Scimitar]

We tell him "READ" and he replies "I cannot READ"...

remind you of anything?

Scimi

[Daris]

Why do you feel the need to bait Muslims? Particularly when your bait is not as effective as you might hope it to be. For an explanation, let's examine what you have said in earlier messages (which I am not quoting in chronological order).

The Quran seems harder to understand for me.

The Qur'an 'seems harder to understand' for you? How can you know this, when you previously said -

4. I cannot read Arabic.
5. Therefore I cannot read the Quran.
6. Therefore I cannot judge the Quran.

If, as you say, you cannot read the Qur'an, which also prevents you from judging the Qur'an, then how is it that you still end up judging the Qur'an? Since you cannot read it, then how can it be hard for you to understand? Not being able to read it seems that would make the Qur'an impolssible to understand, rather than just more difficult.

Are we to assume you are also fluent in Aramaic and Greek, and also have possession of proven manuscripts from which the Holy Bible was written?

A quick question for you, fschmidt - since you are reading the Old Testament in the Hebrew, what explanation do you offer for the differing stories of Creation, as written in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2? Do you find some way to reconcile these contradictory stories? Personally, I question the veracity of a book that contradicts itself in the first two chapters. Which story is correct, do you suppose?

I somehow feel as if I owe this forum an apology, because it seems I am rarely posting anything, unless it is to point out the word games that so many people come here to play. Differences in opinion are a natural thing, and respectful debate is healthy. But when people reduce themselves to playing word games, I find it hard to remain silent.

[Scimitar]

word games :D I doubt that has anything to do with it bro... we're all here for conversation and debate and to learn some things - occasionally we pass some time.

Way to go offtopic mate.

The brother in question is claiming he cannot be a Muslim... bottom line is he doesnt want to be a Muslim, has no interest in Islam and is only here to express his islamophobic opinion.

Less than on and half lines to see that... no need for paragraphs now is there? save your words and be a casual observer if that suits you, but don't pick away at the membership here - we represent IB, you just hover around it.

Scimi

[CalmPassenger]

Pardon me but strange post... its a childish argument that you cannot read Arabic. Therefore you cannot read the Quran. You are living in 2015...Which means you got unlimited resources to understand Quran.

[Abdullahh]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[ali04321]

Lame Excuse. If you are very crazy and curious about this you can learn Arabic. Its not a big deal. And in this modern age you can find translation of quran in any language. even you can download apps in your smart phones. so don't go with these kind of excuses .