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ray
09-01-2015, 10:11 PM
Is it true that if I commit zina (hookup with some hot chick), then zina will be committed against my family? I've heard this many times. Ie. if I hookup with some girl - obviously she would be someone's daughter/sister, etc. then someone will hookup with my family member as well. Whenever I have asked for Islamic proof I failed to get any. Is there any Islamic backing to this or is it a old wives tale? Please keep it on topic. I know zina is haraam and bad so don't lecture me on it, but my question is in regards to this specific aspect. I don't think we should make stuff up just to prove something is bad (assuming there is no proof behind this). JazakAllah. Have a great day brothers and sisters.
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Snow
09-01-2015, 10:23 PM
Why bother, as you put it
hookup with some hot chick
?
If/when... you have a daughter, don't you want to steer her away from people like you, that are tempted?
Lead by an example.
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ray
09-01-2015, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Snow
Why bother, as you put it ?
If/when... you have a daughter, don't you want to steer her away from people like you, that are tempted?
Lead by an example.
this doesn't answer the question.
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Scimitar
09-01-2015, 11:10 PM
This is not Christianity where the sin of one can be placed upon another, or served by another. Nope.

Why you wanna date "girls" for?

aren't you a Muslim?

Or are you actually a "munaafiq" ???

Scimi
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ray
09-01-2015, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
This is not Christianity where the sin of one can be placed upon another, or served by another. Nope.

Why you wanna date "girls" for?

aren't you a Muslim?

Or are you actually a "munaafiq" ???

Scimi
This is one of my problems with online discussions. People fail to address the arguments and just get judgemental and throw around irrelevant red herrings. I am a Muslim although that isn't relevant to the question. Neither am I am Munafiq (assuming that means non-Muslim) and neither is that relevant to the question. Why I want to date girls is stated in a way that is making assumptions and the answer isn't relevant to the question either.

For all you know I could be a Sheikh who is against making things up to scare people away from things which are indeed Haraam and am concerned. Again I don't know if that's the case with this question. For the record, I am not a Shaikh. The only relevant part of your response was your first line which I appreciate. I just personally don't think we should be going around saying things like "if you commit zina with someone, someone will commit zina to someone in your family". For some reason I have always strongly been against using false statements (if what you state is true) to help discourage something even if that something is indeed something terrible. That is all.
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Abz2000
09-01-2015, 11:47 PM
I find it interesting how the o.p promoted the act by describing zina as "hooking up with hot chick", if you did wrong, why not humble yourself before Allah and seek His grace rather than become accursed by feeling proud of the crime?
You're asking a question which you yourself know to be untrue since some people are only children and siblings of others go about their lives totally fine while a family member might be corrupt.
-so please don't burden people with foolish questions.
Is worldly retribution your only concern?
Reply

ardianto
09-02-2015, 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by ray
Is it true that if I commit zina (hookup with some hot chick), then zina will be committed against my family? I've heard this many times. Ie. if I hookup with some girl - obviously she would be someone's daughter/sister, etc. then someone will hookup with my family member as well. Whenever I have asked for Islamic proof I failed to get any. Is there any Islamic backing to this or is it a old wives tale? Please keep it on topic.
That is a cultural myth, not from Islam. Of course there's no Islamic explanation for this myth.
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 12:42 AM
it's possible that some people simplify or specify what they perceive to be Allah's form of retribution and requital - despite the fact that Allah knows best how He deals with criminals.

there is a verse which mentions mirrored requital but it doesn't command injustice towards anyone.
however, we should remember that Allah is the creator of the heavens and the earth to whom is the ressurection and judgement as He pleases.

38.*The man who believed said further: "O my people! Follow me: I will lead you to the Path of Right.
39.*"O my people! This life of the present is nothing but (temporary) convenience: It is the Hereafter that is the Home that will last.
40.*"He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will they have abundance without measure.
41.*"And O my people! How (strange) it is for me to call you to Salvation while ye call me to the Fire!
42.*"Ye do call upon me to blaspheme against Allah, and to join with Him partners of whom I have no knowledge; and I call you to the Exalted in Power, Who forgives again and again!"
43.*"Without doubt ye do call me to one who is not fit to be called to, whether in this world, or in the Hereafter; our return will be to Allah. and the Transgressors will be Companions of the Fire!
44.*"Soon will ye remember what I say to you (now), My (own) affair I commit to Allah. for Allah (ever) watches over His Servants."
45.*Then Allah saved him from (every) ill that they plotted (against him), but the burnt of the Penalty encompassed on all sides the People of Pharaoh.
Quran - The Believer - Al Mu-min
the law of qisas for murder which mentions hur for hur slave for slave and woman for woman plus qisas for haram is sometimes difficult to understand since the slave/woman may not be the murderer, it appears to indicate mirrored retribution against the offender and we know for certain that people are not permitted to commit injustice.
And Allah knows best.

always remember that hasanaat (good deeds) remove sayyi-aat (evil deeds).
so let's try and do good deeds in the hope that Allah takes them into account.
Reply

ray
09-02-2015, 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
I find it interesting how the o.p promoted the act by describing zina as "hooking up with hot chick", if you did wrong, why not humble yourself before Allah and seek His grace rather than become accursed by feeling proud of the crime?
Assumptions. Not to mention irrelevant. Not to mention I don't believe in political correctness brother.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
You're asking a question which you yourself know to be untrue since some people are only children and siblings of others go about their lives totally fine while a family member might be corrupt.
False. I never knew if this was mentioned or talked about anywhere from an Islamic standpoint. Plus there could always be something like "a greater probability" but there is no mention of it anywhere apparently.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
-so please don't burden people with foolish questions.
It's cause of this ego of people like you that get offended over genuine questions on the internet that others have a hard time accepting our beliefs. If you think it's a foolish question don't reply and move on. Not the toughest thing in the world. Definitely not a "burden" by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
Is worldly retribution your only concern?
Is semantics and failing to keep things on topic yours?

Originally Posted by ardianto
That is a cultural myth, not from Islam. Of course there's no Islamic explanation for this myth.
Thank you. Glad someone can stay on topic.
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 01:53 AM
it has been your first thread and post, and you're already promotimg zina with a kafir interpretation which is a perverse interpretation, it would have been less concerning had you not applied "Muslim" to your "religion" - the munafiqeen and murtaddeen are more dangerous than kuffar.
let's keep it simple, if your sister is ugly it would still be illegal and considered as ZINA if she got humped by someone who's not Islamically lawful to her.
If she's ugly people shouldn't hump her even if you begged them to. if she's a hot chick that doesn't mind the idea of being humped by any tom dick and harry, she should know that hell is hotter, people should still resist the temptation and avoid humping her out of wedlock, and shouldn't knowingly marry her, she might have aids.

is that politically correct enough for you?
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M.I.A.
09-02-2015, 02:57 AM
i think ray has lived in hollywood too long.

for every reaction..

but as allah swt says, he can forgive anything.

and is also well aware of those of his servants that have transgressed against themselves. very loosely paraphrased.

anyway if it were true, how could you ever win against twice as many?


but you will stop thinking like that if you ever have daughters.


anyway you never know, may still be true..

english is my first language but i have no idea how to write in paragraphs.


Originally Posted by Scimitar
This is not Christianity where the sin of one can be placed upon another, or served by another. Nope.

Why you wanna date "girls" for?

aren't you a Muslim?

Or are you actually a "munaafiq" ???

Scimi

i know what you are implying but doesnt christianity say something along the lines of children not being punished for the sins of the parents? ...someone please correct me.

...and also about cursing peoples to the n'th generation.


....well if it wernt complicated.


i have no idea about christianity apart from in passing.. and i only ever learn the hard way apparently.
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ray
09-02-2015, 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
it has been your first thread and post, and you're already promotimg zina with a kafir interpretation which is a perverse interpretation, it would have been less concerning had you not applied "Muslim" to your "religion" - the munafiqeen and murtaddeen are more dangerous than kuffar.
let's keep it simple, if your sister is ugly it would still be illegal and considered as ZINA if she got humped by someone who's not Islamically lawful to her.
If she's ugly people shouldn't hump her even if you begged them to. if she's a hot chick that doesn't mind the idea of being humped by any tom dick and harry, she should know that hell is hotter, people should still resist the temptation and avoid humping her out of wedlock, and shouldn't knowingly marry her, she might have aids.

is that politically correct enough for you?
ah congratulations. You've proven my point. Maybe I'll go and watch the titanic now and cry myself to sleep. :exhausted Relax a little, our religion doesn't need any more spazzes who can't form a coherent argument. You have absolutely no clue on how to have an argument and can't leave your emotions at the door. In other words you argue like a woman my friend. You don't address the main points. Instead you try making it personal and argue based on emotions and personal insults which have no backing or evidence. Going around accusing other people's non-existent family members of potentially having aids only speaks of your insecurities my friend. I never did that, so I refuse to see why you would.

I don't have a sister first of all. Second of all being politically correct / not politically correct has no correlation with intentionally arguing on the basis of personal emotion instead of the topic being discussed. I'm not going to retaliate although I'd prefer if you'd leave your emotions out of this. Third of all I suggest you grab a couple books and improve your comprehension. You are making unwarranted assumptions based on "semantics". I never once stated that it's only zina if she is hot or ugly. That was your assumption. Yes I casually wrote "a hot chick" but nowhere did I explicitly say it's only zina based on how hot she is. You nitpick a tiny little word or phrase I say and use that to be negative and blow it out of proportion instead of only trying to address the core of the question.

Also thanks for looking into my profile I guess? I am in no way supporting any kafir interpretation, and it would take someone with extremely poor comprehension to take that out of what I said. Which works out in this case.

You know what I think? I think it's actually people like you that do us more harm than good. People like you that start insulting others family members and telling them not to be Muslim just because your ego was shot. It's angry judgmental spazzes like you that are the reason so many kids leave Islam and why the dislike for us grows everyday. If after one little disagreement you have to resort to such insults it speaks volumes about your emotional strength or the lack thereof. I hope you consider this the next time you reply to a member be it Muslim or non-Muslim as I know for a fact based on people I've talked to that such angry egoistic people can affect an entire religion negatively.
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 09:30 AM
ray - let me make it clear to you that your introductory posts have made you come across as a kafir troll or munafiq troll or murtad troll, so in no way try to pretend i'm guilty of harming Muslims - by attempting to steal the blessings of Muslims in wearing the a skin of a lamb over the heart of a wolf, Allah knows best and i'll leave the judgement to Him. (maybe refer to the story of isaac's blessing of esau and jacob).

Originally Posted by ray

I don't have a sister first of all.
then you already knew the answer to your question?
same applies to your mother though, i mean, why use an example of "women" in general to describe "hot chic" when you have a mother? it would be haram to do zina with her still.


Originally Posted by ray
....makes lots of shrewd false accusations.
it's a waste of time and effort to form a response to stupid false accusations,
let Allah be the judge since He knows the inner workings better.

Originally Posted by ray
....I hope you consider this the next time you reply to a member be it Muslim or non-Muslim as I know for a fact based on people I've talked to that such angry egoistic people can affect an entire religion negatively.

because of the epidemic of trolls, many Muslims sometimes choose to take a break from or even leave the forum, so quit trolling.
and i'm going to affect kufr very negatively soon anyway.
repent and submit to Allah or watch your kafir soldiers get slaughtered like pigs in syria, then repent or meet them in hell.

Volume 7, Book 63, Number 230:Narrated Al-Qasim bin Muhammad:Ibn 'Abbas; said,
"Once Lian was mentioned before the Prophet whereupon 'Asim bin Adi said something and went away. Then a man from his tribe came to him, complaining that he had found a man width his wife. 'Asim said, 'I have not been put to task except for my statement (about Lian).'

'Asim took the man to the Prophet and the man told him of the state in which he had found his wife. The man was pale, thin, and of lank hair, while the other man whom he claimed he had seen with his wife, was brown, fat and had much flesh on his calves.
The Prophet invoked, saying, 'O Allah! Reveal the truth.'
So that lady delivered a child resembling the man whom her husband had mentioned he had found her with.
The Prophet then made them carry out Lian."

Then a man from that gathering asked Ibn 'Abbas,
"Was she the same lady regarding which the Prophet had said,

'If I were to stone to death someone without witness, I would have stoned this lady'?"

Ibn 'Abbas said, "No, that was another lady who, though being a Muslim, used to arouse suspicion by her outright misbehavior. "
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BlueOwl358
09-02-2015, 12:33 PM
Yeah, the point you are asking isn't true. Retribution of sins is always done in a direct way by Allah (swt), never in an indirect way, because it isn't the exact same thing, and another person isn punished. He may be punished on his own sins, for what he did, bu it will not be done as a way for indirect retribution on another person. Each person has their own record, the retribution isn't shared or trickled across.

Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger. (17:15)

That is the direct answer, as for everything else, the issue enveloping this thread primarily started on the basis of a wrong or inappropriate statement, which developed more in comparison than what it was, a mistake. Next time better is, you don't try to get answers in similar manners, most people don't receive it well. The point was thrown about in un-expected way, and that hindered the replies.
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 12:47 PM
Allah knows best
Reply

greenhill
09-02-2015, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by ray
I just personally don't think we should be going around saying things like "if you commit zina with someone, someone will commit zina to someone in your family". For some reason I have always strongly been against using false statements (if what you state is true) to help discourage something even if that something is indeed something terrible. That is all.
I feel the same way. Making things more dramatic for the sake of effect. Scare tactics, it happens everywhere, and Muslims are just as susceptible to that trick. That's why we are encouraged to learn and to reason.

:peace:
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greenhill
09-02-2015, 01:57 PM
I also want to add, actually my main reason for joining this forum was to try and separate islamic practice and customs adopted along the way since islam was embraced (where I come from in Malaysia) over 1000 years ago. .

Reading the posts and responses have helped countless unasked questions and even those that are at the 'not-sure-how-to-put-it-in-words' stage. Of course there are plenty of other gems that often I forget why it was I joined this site. .

Do ask those questions, but just ask the question, don't have to provide the descriptive elements ;D

Forgot to wish you :welcome:
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M.I.A.
09-02-2015, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
ray - let me make it clear to you that your introductory posts have made you come across as a kafir troll or munafiq troll or murtad troll, so in no way try to pretend i'm guilty of harming Muslims - by attempting to steal the blessings of Muslims in wearing the a skin of a lamb over the heart of a wolf, Allah knows best and i'll leave the judgement to Him. (maybe refer to the story of isaac's blessing of esau and jacob).



then you already knew the answer to your question?
same applies to your mother though, i mean, why use an example of "women" in general to describe "hot chic" when you have a mother? it would be haram to do zina with her still.



it's a waste of time and effort to form a response to stupid false accusations,
let Allah be the judge since He knows the inner workings better.




because of the epidemic of trolls, many Muslims sometimes choose to take a break from or even leave the forum, so quit trolling.
and i'm going to affect kufr very negatively soon anyway.
repent and submit to Allah or watch your kafir soldiers get slaughtered like pigs in syria, then repent or meet them in hell.



waaaaat!

:/ imma have to warna brother, the m15 probably on the way.

Attachment 5499
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Ridwaan Ravat
09-02-2015, 02:08 PM
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

You clearly mentioned "zina is haraam". What you've heard is no old wives tale, and has some basis.

1. A young companion had the evil thoughts of zina which he confessed to Nabee صلي الله عليه و سلم.

Nabee صلي الله عليه و سلم in reply asked him "would he like if somebody committed zina with his mother or sister"(something to the effect).

2. Imaam shafee رحمة الله عليه , who is a great scholar, mentions "there is a great possibility that the person who commits zina and doesn't repent, will suffer the disgrace in this world of his family members committing zina".

3. The normal principle of life "what goes around, comes around".

4. Numerous incidents have been recorded in this regard.

May Allah save us all.
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
waaaaat!

:/ imma have to warna brother, the m15 probably on the way.

Attachment 5499
for what? kufr is crime and oppression, against the laws of God, tell ur friends at mi5 that the angels of God are probably on their way.

lol at the voice changing dude. what a disguise!

172.*Of those who answered the call of Allah and the Messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward;-

173.*Men said to them: "A great army is gathering against you": And frightened them: But it (only) increased their Faith: They said: "For us Allah sufficeth, and He is the best disposer of affairs."

174.*And they returned with Grace and bounty from Allah. no harm ever touched them: For they followed the good pleasure of Allah. And Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.

175.*It is only the Evil One that suggests to you the fear of his votaries: Be ye not afraid of them, but fear Me, if ye have Faith.

176.*Let not those grieve thee who rush headlong into Unbelief: Not the least harm will they do to Allah. Allah.s plan is that He will give them no portion in the Hereafter, but a severe punishment.

177.*Those who purchase Unbelief at the price of faith,- not the least harm will they do to Allah, but they will have a grievous punishment.

178.*Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment.

179.*Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messengers (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His apostles: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure.

from Quran Chapter 3 Aal Imraan.
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Scimitar
09-02-2015, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by ray
This is one of my problems with online discussions. People fail to address the arguments and just get judgemental and throw around irrelevant red herrings. I am a Muslim although that isn't relevant to the question. Neither am I am Munafiq (assuming that means non-Muslim) and neither is that relevant to the question. Why I want to date girls is stated in a way that is making assumptions and the answer isn't relevant to the question either.

For all you know I could be a Sheikh who is against making things up to scare people away from things which are indeed Haraam and am concerned. Again I don't know if that's the case with this question. For the record, I am not a Shaikh. The only relevant part of your response was your first line which I appreciate. I just personally don't think we should be going around saying things like "if you commit zina with someone, someone will commit zina to someone in your family". For some reason I have always strongly been against using false statements (if what you state is true) to help discourage something even if that something is indeed something terrible. That is all.
So why don't you be clear and tell us why you are asking the question? Why so cloak and dagger?

As for online discussions - you took part in one, knowing full well that it could become problematic for you - and you went ahead anyway. Why complain? deal with it.

As for zina - run from it.

Scimi
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ardianto
09-02-2015, 03:03 PM
The myth that if someone commit zina, then zina will be committed against his family member actually come from belief on karma, which if someone do something, then something will happen too to him or his family.

But like I have said, this belief is not from Islam.
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 03:31 PM
brother ardianto, the truth is deeper than that which can be explained in a few paragraphs,
the destruction of the people of lut, the people of saalih, the people of shu'aib, the soldiers of pharaoh despite the kufr of the egyptians as a whole, the plight of the wives and children of prisoners, the ultimatums of the Prophets and caliphs to leaders and subsequent invasions of lands etc cannot be explained in one paragrah and can never be completely explained.

suffice it to know that we will all be successful and saved from a lot of confusion, corruption and heartache if we all submit to the will of Allah (Islam).

i once bought an air rifle to hunt birds in our large home in bangladesh which has hundreds of trees.
my mother told me that the children of the birds screech and chirp throughout the following day when they miss their mothers and they die too.
now i know that it is halal to hunt and kill birds for food, and it isn't haraam not to.
but put to use the brain that Allah gave me and decided that i have enough money to buy farm poultry and other food so it was better to avoid the unnecessary harm.

life is a test, sometimes answers will never be absolute nor will they be totally unclear, we'll just have to humbly wait until we can ask God on the day we meet Him - if He looks at us and we have the guts.
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ardianto
09-02-2015, 03:52 PM
Islam teaches us that zina is sin. But, does Islam teach us that if a man commit zina, then another man will commit zina to a woman in his family?.

If you say yes, please show me the evidence from Qur'an or hadith.
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najimuddin
09-02-2015, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by ray
Is it true that if I commit zina (hookup with some hot chick), then zina will be committed against my family? I've heard this many times. Ie. if I hookup with some girl - obviously she would be someone's daughter/sister, etc. then someone will hookup with my family member as well. Whenever I have asked for Islamic proof I failed to get any. Is there any Islamic backing to this or is it a old wives tale? Please keep it on topic. I know zina is haraam and bad so don't lecture me on it, but my question is in regards to this specific aspect. I don't think we should make stuff up just to prove something is bad (assuming there is no proof behind this). JazakAllah. Have a great day brothers and sisters.
Although I am not addressing the specific situation in relation to what you're asking about, I believe that the following may fit within the context of your inquiry. From my understanding, this relates to experiencing detrimental repercussions in this world due to committing a sin.

Click on the link below and read through the entire text.

Consequences of Debasing the Auliya Allah
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Islam teaches us that zina is sin. But, does Islam teach us that if a man commit zina, then another man will commit zina to a woman in his family?.

If you say yes, please show me the evidence from Qur'an or hadith.
You probably didn't bother to read the first page.......
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Abz2000
09-02-2015, 05:24 PM
What hindah did to the body of hamzah (ra) the prophet's (pbuh) beloved uncle and close associate was haraam,
You don't desecrate human bodies and you certainly don't eat people's livers, which is why the best advice is to submit to Allah together as a whole, because we don't understand the secrets of all ghaib and can never make laws more perfect than Allah - nor can we escape His law of consequenses or force His hand at mercy or prevent His ability to forgive, or win by plotting against Him,
hind too submitted to Allah's laws ultimately, she had to.

before the prohibition of khamr:
Husain b. 'Ali reported 'Ali having said: There fell to my lot a she-camel out of the spoils of war on the Day of Badr, and Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) gave me (another) she-camel on that day out of the Khums (one-fifth reserved for Allaah and His Messenger).
When I made up my mind to consummate my marriage with Fatima, the daughter of Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam), I prevailed upon a goldsmith of the tribe of Qainuqa' to go along with me so that we might bring Idhkhir wishing to sell that to the goldsmiths and thus I should be able to arrange my wedding feast.
While I was arranging the equipments. i. e. litters, sacks and ropes, my two she-camels were sitting down at the side of the apartment of a person of the Ansar.

I collected (the different articles of equipment) and found to my surprise that their humps had been chopped off and their haunches had been cut off and their livers had been taken out.

I could not help weeping when I saw that plight of theirs.

I said: Who has done that? They said: Hamza b. 'Abd al-Muttalib has done this. and he is in this house dead drunk in the company of some of the Ansar with a singing girl singing before him and his companions.
She said in her song: O Hamza. get up and attack these fatted she-camels.
Thereupon Hamza stood up with a sword (in his hand) and cut off their humps and ripped their haunches and tore out their livers.
'Ali said: I went away until I came to Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) and there was with him Zaid b. Haritha.
Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) recognised from my face what I had experienced, whereupon Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said: What has happened to you?

I said: Messenger of Allaah, by Allaah, I have never seen (such an unfortunate day) as this day. Hamza has committed aggression to my she-camels, and has cut off their humps. and ripped their haunches, and he is in a house in the company of some drunkards.

(Hearing this) Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) sent for his mantle and, putting it on him, he proceeded, and I and Zaid b. Haritha followed him, until he came to the door (of the house) in which there was Hamza.
He (the Prophet) sought permission which they granted him. and they were all drunk.
Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) began to reprimand Hamza for what he had done.
Hamza's eyes were red. He cast a glance at Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) and then looked towards his knees. and then lifted his eyes and cast a glance at his waist and then lifted his eyes and saw his face.
And then Hamza said: Are you anything but the slaves of my father?
Allah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) came to know that he was intoxicated, and he thus turned upon his heels, and came out, and we also came out along with him.

Sahih Muslim
http://www.sahihmuslim.com/sps/smm/s...&ChapterID=838
Wahshi said: “Then I balanced my spear and shook it till I was content with it, then I speared him and it went down into his stomach and issued out between his legs. He attempted moving towards me but his wound overcame him. I left him there with the spear till he died. Then I came to him, pulled out my spear and returned to the encampment place. I stayed there and did not go out, for he was the only one I sought. I only killed him to free myself. So as soon as I got back to Makkah, I became a free man.”

Hind bin ‘Utbah ripped open the liver of Hamza and chewed it; but finding it unpleasant, she spat it out. She even made the ears and noses of Muslims into anklets and necklaces.

When the Messenger of Allah saw how his uncle and foster brother, Hamza, was mutilated, he was extremely grieved.

When his aunt Safiyah came to see her brother Hamza, the Messenger of Allah ordered her son Az-Zubair to dismiss her in order not to see what happened to her brother. She refused and said, “But why should I go away. I have been informed that they have mutilated him. But so long as it is in the way of Allah , whatever happens to him satisfies us. I say: Allah is Sufficient and I will be patient if Allah wills.”
She approached, looked at him and supplicated Allah for him and said: “To Allah we all belong and to Him we will verily return.” and she implored Allah to forgive him. Then the Messenger of Allah ordered that he should be buried with ‘Abdullah bin Jahsh — who was his nephew as well as his foster brother.

Ibn Mas‘ud said: We have never seen the Messenger of Allah weeping so much as he was for Hamza bin ‘Abdul Muttalib. He directed him towards Al-Qiblah, then he stood at his funeral and sobbed his heart out.

The sight of the martyrs was extremely horrible and heart-breaking.
Describing Hamza’s funeral, Khabbab said: “No shroud long enough was available for Hamza except a white-darkish garment. When they covered his head with it, it was too short to cover his feet. Similarly if they covered his feet his head would be revealed. Finally they covered his head with it and put some plant called ‘Al-Idhkhir’ to cover his feet.“

http://islamicthinkers.com/welcome/?p=441
45.*We sent (aforetime), to the Thamud, their brother Salih, saying, "Serve Allah.: But behold, they became two factions quarrelling with each other.
46.*He said: "O my people! why ask ye to hasten on the evil in preference to the good? If only ye ask Allah for forgiveness, ye may hope to receive mercy.
47.*They said: "Ill omen do we augur from thee and those that are with thee". He said: "Your ill omen is with Allah. yea, ye are a people under trial."
48.*There were in the city nine men of a family, who made mischief in the land, and would not reform.
49.*They said: "Swear a mutual oath by Allah that we shall make a secret night attack on him and his people, and that we shall then say to his heir (when he seeks vengeance): 'We were not present at the slaughter of his people, and we are positively telling the truth.'"
50.*They plotted and planned, but We too planned, even while they perceived it not.
51.*Then see what was the end of their plot!- this, that We destroyed them and their people, all (of them).
52.*Now such were their houses, - in utter ruin, - because they practised wrong- doing. Verily in this is a Sign for people of knowledge.
53.*And We saved those who believed and practised righteousness.

from Quran Chapter 27 The Ant

scroll to 9:30 if you're wondering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKTT5VFPNGA

As i said, rather than trying to excessively understand the unfathomable workings of Allah in Al Ghaib in order to then plot and plan against Him, let us submit to Him and obey His laws collectively, it will be better for everyone.
Reply

Abz2000
09-02-2015, 06:56 PM
Umar Ibn Khattab another time was talking givening a khutba and he was angry that the mahr [J&*] was going up. Mahr is the dowry and Umar Ibn Khattab wanted the dowry to be reasonable and he was quiet upset that the prices were going up. So he gives a khutba and says the mahr should not go above this amount and if I hear that any mahr is over this amount I am going to take the additional amount and put it in the treasury.

So
Audio lecture by Sheikh Imam Al Awlaki Translation Abdullah Mujahid fi Sabeelilah tiling ,J tJAAAb^all liil ja.1 Ujj^ijl a^AJl Biography of Umar Ibn Khattab His life and times & His Character 1-9 [18]

a woman stood up and old woman stood up and said,
"its not upto you to do that."

Umar Ibn Khattab said, why?

She said because Allaah Azza wajal said, IjUaia (jAlA^I A£'j It mentions in Qur'an
"you give a woman a Qintara" Allaah Azza wajal was refering to some issues of marriage and it mentions in the Ayat Qintara is a large amount of Gold.
So this woman used this as a Daleel [J^ J ] as an evidence that you can give mahr as much as a Qintar

Umar Ibn Khattab said,"A man was wrong and a woman was right."
Another narrations says,'" [Check for errors in Arabic Script and rectify Jazakallahu khairun] The woman was right and Umar Ibn Khattab was wrong.
In a third narration said, he said, [Check for errors in Arabic Script and rectify Jazakallahu khairun]
Everyone has more Fiqh than Umar Ibn Khattab than me.

And these are the examples also not to show the justice but also shows the humbleness of Umar Ibn Khattab you know for somebody to stand up in public and correct him in the public, his pride didn't take him over he accepted and he said, every body has more Fiqh than me.


---------


There are exception to this rule
Umar Ibn Khattab just didn't give a blanket freedom of expression anyone or everyone to say whatever they want. Umar Ibn Khattab placed restrictions just we saw he place restriction on property rights, also placed restrictions on freedom of expression.

He was, once giving a khutab, in the beginning of the khutbaopening of ,the khutba he says Whomever, Allaah guides nobody can misguide him and whomever, Allaah misguide nobody can guide him.

So this man stands up [<*kl <&'] Allaahu Alam if he was Muslim or not anyways, he said,
Allaah Azza wajal does not misguide anyone because it said, So now he .Allaah misguide nobody can misguide him ,whomever 4J ^ jU !sli *ii ^u ^ytj is one area where we Qadr-al and [j-^l]

Qadr-al is bringing up a controversial issue of This an area .We should not try to delve into and try to comprehend .should believe Because some aspects ?

Why .belief in the unseen ['tH^W u 1 -*;'] Emaan bil ghaib taken as wajal has taught us the knowledge

Allaah Azza .beyond human comprehension Qadroi Allaah taught us in Qur'an things .
He didn't teach us everything .that we need to know There are things that are many aspects of knowledge that are not .that we need to know hidayah We don't need them for .emmentioned in the Quran because we don't need th it was mentioned in some ,Some were debating .so for example in Suratul Kahf [L.I-**] You know the dog of the people of .They were debating on the Issue of the Dog .books .People of the cave they had a dog and this dog is mentioned in the Quran .the cave So they were debating what colour is this dog? Is it black or white or is it black and white or is it red or yellow.
Whats the benefit of such knowledge?
What will you gain by knowing the colour of the dog?

NOTHING. This is knowledge that does not benefit. Therefore, it wasn't mentioned to us.

You find that Qur'an doesn't mention the details of time, of names, of locations, you will have entire story and no location would be mentioned no time would be mentioned. In some stories you would have a time line, some stories you would have locations but it for a benefit. But these details are left out there is clear difference. When you read a story in the Bible and when you read a story in Qur'an it could be the same story but they are Audio lecture by Sheikh Imam Al Awlaki Translation Abdullah Mujahid fi Sabeelilah tiling (J .JAAAU^JI liil ja.1 Ujj^ijI a^Ul Biography of Umar Ibn Khattab His life and times & His Character 1-9 [18] very different. The Bible gets into the name of the man, his wife, their fathers, their relatives and their tribes but the Qur'an goes straight into the story and mentions to you the just of it al- 'bra [»jj*JI] In those stories are reminders, [benefits] So, the issues that are irrelevant are not mentioned in the Qur'an because this Qur'an is the Book of Guidance. You are not going to find chemistry in Qur'an you are not going to find physics in Qur'an why? Because these are the issues that are not really important for our guidance. Qur'an has mentioned every single thing we need to know in order to we get into Jannah and save ourselves from hellfire, all that is mentioned in the Qur'an.

So, the issue of Qadr we know of Qadr what we need to know but there are some parts of Qadr we don't need to know so we are not told about it and our minds cannot comprehend them. So this man is talking about How come Allaah misguide us? Allaah does not misguide.

Umar Ibn Khattab told him,'' 'if you ever said that again I am going to execute you" . You know Umar Ibn Khattab does not play around I am going to execute you.

He goes straight to the point and he knows how to deliver the medicine.

-----------

In another example,

there is this man who is within the Muslim army a soldier Fi Sabeelillah fighting and then he will go around [because in camps you have a lot of free time you are not fighting all the time] there is time of ribaat [-^Wj] when people are waiting and you are guarding your out post. So the mujahid who knows his benefit would use that time to learn, to study Shari'ah, make Ibaadah, you know like al- Murabitoon [a^l^l] there is this great Hmarat [»j^] in the great Africa in our history its called al-Murabitoon.

These were scholars and were students who would set pace in the frontier between the Muslim land and the non Muslim land. And they would fight Fi Sabeelillah to spread the religion and when they are not fighting they are studying. The Shoyukh [CJ*".] are teaching them the 'Urn. So, there time was spent in fighting Fi Sabeelillah, Ribaat, Da'wah and 'ilm.The best things that you could ask there was this man in the time of umar ibn khattab this man was in the ,However .for the ayaat that [ ^}.'"''" ^^] Ayat Mutashabihaat army he would go around asking about and [?**■*] Muhkam There are some ayaat in the Quran that are .meaning is not clear meaning is very clear and direct and there is muhkam The ./^ V.""" 1 ? / there are some ayat With .to be known [djju] ta 'weel it is unknown and it takes time for the mutashabih So this .some ayaat the final ta'weel would only be known on the Day Of Judgment man was going around and say what does that [mean?] >JJ^ ^jl^lj [mean?] Ijj C^UaJli [mean?] I>-J ^Ljla^

He goes around these soldiers and asking them these controversial questions. And no body has an answer and he is causing so much gossip.

So, the Ameer of the army was quiet concern because we have a lot of new Muslims and why raise these issues? And some people are upto not that level of knowledge. So, you don't talk about every thing.

So he came to the Ameer and said I have these questions for you what does this mean and what does this mean?

So, the Ameer of the army, he sends a letter to Umar Ibn Khattab and telling him about this situation. Umar Ibn Khattab sends him a letter and asks him to send it to me [bring him over to me].

So, they send this guy down to Al Madinah, the man comes in and Umar Ibn Khattab meets him and how can I help you?


The man say, I want to know what does ljJ J ^Jjl^J means and what does ' J^J ££L»aJLa means and Umar Ibn Khattab is telling him go on go on! ! ! And he is getting all these questions from him,

he said, I will give you all the answers. So he wraps him in this rug and then

Audio lecture by Sheikh Imam Al Awlaki Translation Abdullah Mujahid fi Sabeelilah Biography of Umar Ibn Khattab His life and times & His Character 1-9 [18]

he beats him up so bad, and then Umar Ibn Khattab said,"you understand now?"

he said, Yes Ameerul Mo'mineen I know the answer I know the answer now.

Umar Ibn Khattab said, I never want you to ask them these questions again.

They said, he left and he behaved himself until Umar Ibn Khattab died and then he starting to asking the questions again.

Umar Ibn Khattab was the one who would stand between the Ummah and Fithnah he was the wall between the Fitnah and the Umma.

So Islam does give freedom of speech and freedom of expression but it does not allow to fool around with the religion. It's a serious issue the religion of Allaah Azza wajal is a serious.....

https://archive.org/stream/UmarIbnAl...cd1-9_djvu.txt
Reply

ray
09-02-2015, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
ray - let me make it clear to you that your introductory posts have made you come across as a kafir troll or munafiq troll or murtad troll, so in no way try to pretend i'm guilty of harming Muslims - by attempting to steal the blessings of Muslims in wearing the a skin of a lamb over the heart of a wolf, Allah knows best and i'll leave the judgement to Him. (maybe refer to the story of isaac's blessing of esau and jacob).



then you already knew the answer to your question?
same applies to your mother though, i mean, why use an example of "women" in general to describe "hot chic" when you have a mother? it would be haram to do zina with her still.



it's a waste of time and effort to form a response to stupid false accusations,
let Allah be the judge since He knows the inner workings better.




because of the epidemic of trolls, many Muslims sometimes choose to take a break from or even leave the forum, so quit trolling.
and i'm going to affect kufr very negatively soon anyway.
repent and submit to Allah or watch your kafir soldiers get slaughtered like pigs in syria, then repent or meet them in hell.
Nope, i have not come across as a troll, that's your own biased viewpoint. You are the one guilty of harming Muslims because you are a bit of judgmental prick. No offense. It's cause of people like you who get offended and take things personally that we have a bad name. I am a Muslim and I don't care if you think otherwise. Allah does know best.

Again, semantics. You know very well "hot chick" was not the main premise of the question yet you chose to focus on one little detail - a red herring. The accusations you throw at people's families are rather weak and only a reflection of yourself.

And lol at "it's a waste of time and effort to form a response to stupid false accusations". Pot meet kettle. As if I'm the one going around accusing other members of having family members suffering from aids hahaha. And I am not a kafir, once again. So far your only argument is to accuse me of trolling which is rather weak. I don't understand your last line. You sound like an emotional woman. It's funny how a paragraph ago you mentioned "stupid false accusations". Might want to stare at a mirror and read that again. Where are the mods here? Can anyone just go around accusing others of whatever and go off topic?
Reply

ray
09-02-2015, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
I feel the same way. Making things more dramatic for the sake of effect. Scare tactics, it happens everywhere, and Muslims are just as susceptible to that trick. That's why we are encouraged to learn and to reason.

:peace:
I agree which is exactly why I asked this. Intentions may be fine, but the process doesn't always justify the ends.
Reply

Abz2000
09-02-2015, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by ray
Nope, i have not come across as a troll, that's your own biased viewpoint. You are the one guilty of harming Muslims because you are a bit of judgmental prick. No offense. It's cause of people like you who get offended and take things personally that we have a bad name. I am a Muslim and I don't care if you think otherwise. Allah does know best.

Again, semantics. You know very well "hot chick" was not the main premise of the question yet you chose to focus on one little detail - a red herring. The accusations you throw at people's families are rather weak and only a reflection of yourself.

And lol at "it's a waste of time and effort to form a response to stupid false accusations". Pot meet kettle. As if I'm the one going around accusing other members of having family members suffering from aids hahaha. And I am not a kafir, once again. So far your only argument is to accuse me of trolling which is rather weak. I don't understand your last line. You sound like an emotional woman. It's funny how a paragraph ago you mentioned "stupid false accusations". Might want to stare at a mirror and read that again. Where are the mods here? Can anyone just go around accusing others of whatever and go off topic?
you come across as a kafir, munafiq or murtad troll, especially by your first post and from the way you addressed veteran members of the forum,
even Joseph's brothers knew how to weep but jacob had a good hunch so he told them so, but coz he knew they were liars and genuinely didn't believe them, he made a sincere mistake the second time.
Allah knows best what you conceal and what you disclose, and he's the best to judge if you conceal a lie, we'll let Him be the judge - now please shut your trap
Reply

M.I.A.
09-02-2015, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
brother ardianto, the truth is deeper than that which can be explained in a few paragraphs,
the destruction of the people of lut, the people of saalih, the people of shu'aib, the soldiers of pharaoh despite the kufr of the egyptians as a whole, the plight of the wives and children of prisoners, the ultimatums of the Prophets and caliphs to leaders and subsequent invasions of lands etc cannot be explained in one paragrah and can never be completely explained.

suffice it to know that we will all be successful and saved from a lot of confusion, corruption and heartache if we all submit to the will of Allah (Islam).

i once bought an air rifle to hunt birds in our large home in bangladesh which has hundreds of trees.
my mother told me that the children of the birds screech and chirp throughout the following day when they miss their mothers and they die too.
now i know that it is halal to hunt and kill birds for food, and it isn't haraam not to.
but put to use the brain that Allah gave me and decided that i have enough money to buy farm poultry and other food so it was better to avoid the unnecessary harm.

life is a test, sometimes answers will never be absolute nor will they be totally unclear, we'll just have to humbly wait until we can ask God on the day we meet Him - if He looks at us and we have the guts.
I'm happy that you have mercy within you, but if you can feel such a thing for birds then every action thereafter Is probably a heavy one..

Maybe not as time goes by.

Somebody once told me that if the donkey makes friends with the grass... Then what would he eat?

On a lighter note I once too had a pellet gun, I took it in school to show off I suppose and while walking up a hill with it in my bag..

A slipped and hit myself in the head with it. Lol.

Once shot a bird and its been in storage ever since.
Reply

Abz2000
09-02-2015, 09:49 PM
reminds me of a story of the cow, the bird and the cat.
there was once a bird,
he went out on a very cold day,
he was flying near the clouds and his wings froze, then he fell to earth in one piece,
then along came a cow and shat on him so now he's covered,
then along came a hungry cat who smelt something under the dung,
so he uncovered the dung, found the bird and ate it.
.









moral: not everyone who sh*ts on you is your enemy,
and not everyone who uncovers you and wipes you clean is your friend.

(though not literally).
Reply

ray
09-02-2015, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
you come across as a kafir, munafiq or murtad troll, especially by your first post and from the way you addressed veteran members of the forum,
even Joseph's brothers knew how to weep but jacob had a good hunch so he told them so, but coz he knew they were liars and genuinely didn't believe them, he made a sincere mistake the second time.
Allah knows best what you conceal and what you disclose, and he's the best to judge if you conceal a lie, we'll let Him be the judge - now please shut your trap
repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it any more true you incompetent fool. The way I address "veteran members" of a forum is now enough to make assessments on which classification of a troll I am? What type of Muslim are you anyway that you can throw around accusations of people's religions? Instead of addressing any arguments you have repeatedly just called me a troll. I on the other hand have barely taken any shots at your character and have done so only in retaliation. You're among the worst of Muslims because you're an anger filled loser who goes around taking shots at people's characters and religions. This is how young kids leave the religion and non-Muslims don't enter/develop hate. You're also crap at having an argument. You argue like a female. You argue based on emotions and taking personal shots rather than addressing the topic. And right after you big guy.
Reply

sister_39738
09-29-2016, 05:12 AM
If there is no surah or hadeeth on it then dont take it at face value. It is true a lot of people will say things derived from culture rather than religion which is why it is important to do your own research. Allah made it mandatory for every muslim to seek knowledge so do so. What Scimitar said about Christianity is true that is actually the basis of Christianity. I don see how he was being disrespectful by pointing out a belief system of Christians. They believe that the reason women have pain in childbirth is because Eve sinned. They blamed Adam's sin on Eve. They believe Jesus died in order to forgive human sin. But if you dont believe me do your own research.
Reply

AnnaK
09-29-2016, 06:04 AM
Originally Posted by ray
In other words you argue like a woman my friend.
Words hurt you know. I get your overreaching feel of frustration, but that doesn't excuse generalizing and insulting an entire group of people that comprise half of the world's population. Please try to refrain from using language like that. It isn't a religious thing, but it's a basic human respect thing. Please, in the future, try not to make comments like this.
Reply

M.I.A.
09-29-2016, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by ray
Is it true that if I commit zina (hookup with some hot chick), then zina will be committed against my family? I've heard this many times. Ie. if I hookup with some girl - obviously she would be someone's daughter/sister, etc. then someone will hookup with my family member as well. Whenever I have asked for Islamic proof I failed to get any. Is there any Islamic backing to this or is it a old wives tale? Please keep it on topic. I know zina is haraam and bad so don't lecture me on it, but my question is in regards to this specific aspect. I don't think we should make stuff up just to prove something is bad (assuming there is no proof behind this). JazakAllah. Have a great day brothers and sisters.
...bit more complicated than that.

if your sitting with the opposing team.. what would it matter?

if your sitting in prison.. what would it matter?

if you cant tell the difference.. then abstain for the greater good.

your not planning on dieing for other peoples sins are you?


at the end of the day your just a man lol..

i saw a women that looked like a million dollars once..

an audi r8 v10 plus drove past behind her..i lol'd

better to wait for a women that doesnt want to see you die..

nice eyes.


dont crap on your own doorstep.

...and dont covet your own soul..
Reply

Scimitar
09-29-2016, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by ray
This is one of my problems with online discussions. People fail to address the arguments and just get judgemental and throw around irrelevant red herrings.
Your use of "red herring" was giggle worthy - your existence is the red herring here. You're a walking talking contradiction. And this, I say concluding from what you wrote in your OP.

Originally Posted by ray
I am a Muslim although that isn't relevant to the question.
How so? You came here as a "Muslim" who has issues with his "desires for women"... being a Muslim is every bit as relevant to this discussion as you deciding to join a "Muslim forum" in order to find answers as a "struggling Muslim".

Originally Posted by ray
Neither am I am Munafiq (assuming that means non-Muslim) and neither is that relevant to the question.
It means "hypocrite" and yes, it's RELEVANT... because a Muslim does not "date women" - but a Muslim hypocrite - does.

Originally Posted by ray
Why I want to date girls is stated in a way that is making assumptions and the answer isn't relevant to the question either.
Your use of the word "relevant" needs checking - all thru your post, you've misapplied the meaning and presented it as a "misnomer"... I advice reading books, plenty of them, so you don't make such a pigs ear out of basic English words and their usage in language.

Originally Posted by ray
For all you know I could be a Sheikh who is against making things up to scare people away from things which are indeed Haraam and am concerned.
For all you know, I am a superhero who wears his pants over his lycra leggings... what has this to do with the price of peas?

Wasn't your issue - your desire to do haraam? :D

Originally Posted by ray
Again I don't know if that's the case with this question. For the record, I am not a Shaikh. The only relevant part of your response was your first line which I appreciate. I just personally don't think we should be going around saying things like "if you commit zina with someone, someone will commit zina to someone in your family". For some reason I have always strongly been against using false statements (if what you state is true) to help discourage something even if that something is indeed something terrible. That is all.
What did you hope to achieve by coming here? Did you think you will find Muslims who say stuff like "oh shaikh blahblah has made dating halal now"?????

COZ THAT AINT HAPPENING.

So please, do enlighten us as to why you are here exactly?

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
09-29-2016, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
reminds me of a story of the cow, the bird and the cat.
there was once a bird,
he went out on a very cold day,
he was flying near the clouds and his wings froze, then he fell to earth in one piece,
then along came a cow and shat on him so now he's covered,
then along came a hungry cat who smelt something under the dung,
so he uncovered the dung, found the bird and ate it.


moral: not everyone who sh*ts on you is your enemy,
and not everyone who uncovers you and wipes you clean is your friend.

(though not literally).
*claps hands, standing ovation.

Scimi
Reply

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