View Full Version : war and corruption only in muslim countries?

10-04-2015, 08:13 PM

is there a simple answer to this, trying to think of a reason. Many non muslim say this alot.

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Abdul Emwazi
10-05-2015, 12:43 AM
Wrong. The united states is one of, if not THE most corrupt nations in the world. I feel that The reason for this is the total lack of a religion. The government is very anti religion and if there is a common religion among the politicians and those in power, it is most definitely Jewish.

10-05-2015, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by BilalKid

is there a simple answer to this, trying to think of a reason. Many non muslim say this alot.
No. There is no simple answer to the questions that can arise in relation to this. However, I can very easily tell you that corruption is not limited to Muslim countries.

For example, according to a report published in 2014:

“The extent of corruption in Europe is ‘breathtaking’ and it costs the EU economy at least 120bn euros (£99bn) annually, the European Commission says.”

See http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387 for complete article and associated video.

To put the war issue into perspective, it’s important to hold all the potential contributors to this situation accountable.

For example, according to a report published in 2003:

“The UK Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, has blamed Britain's imperial past for many of the modern political problems, including the Arab-Israeli conflict and the Kashmir dispute.

Mr Straw blamed many territorial disputes on the illogical borders created by colonial powers [emphasis added]. He mentioned Iraq, the region which was governed by Britain under the mandate of the League of Nations after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I. ‘The odd lines for Iraq's borders were drawn by Brits,’ he said.” See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2481371.stm for the complete article.

The illogical lines are not the only problem. There was, and still is, direct and indirect foreign political influence on these countries.

“In 1920, the Ottoman Arab provinces were divided between Britain and France along the lines of the Sykes-Picot Agreement, with borders drawn up entirely by the colonial powers. Mandates from the League of Nations gave France control of Syria and Lebanon. Britain held mandates over Palestine, Iraq, and the newly created Transjordan. To mollify the Arabs, the British made the sons of the Sharif of Mecca rulers of two of these new states: Faisal was made king of Iraq, and Abdullah was made king of Transjordan, later Jordan [emphasis added].

Some groups had their hopes for a nation-state dashed. The Kurds were briefly promised an independent state by the Allies in 1920, but in the end other interests triumphed [emphasis added]: The areas of Kurdish settlement were divided among Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran.” See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnec...tions/nations/

For supplemental information on this, read the following article by Professor Toby Craig Jones of Rutgers University. See America, Oil, and War in the Middle East at http://jah.oxfordjournals.org/content/99/1/208.full

I hope I was able to shed some light on these complex issues.

10-05-2015, 06:56 AM
Assalaamu alaikum Bilalkid,

(smile) A simple answer...? No. Corruption is part of the human condition. We are weak, and therefore prone to it. It places where there is a lack of social structure and accountability, corruption tends to flourish. There is an organisation that tries to quantify corruption, if you want to look into it a bit: https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

Fighting is also something we humans are prone to when we fail to restrain ourselves.

I would argue that a true Muslim is less prone to these lapses in self-restraint. This is because someone who truly wishes to Please God would struggle to restrain themselves from their inherent weaknesses. (sigh) However, it seems to me that there are too many people who retain the label of "Muslim", but fail to act with the self-restraint that a strong and true believer would express.

May Allah, the Victory Giver, Help us to restrain ourselves.

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10-05-2015, 09:51 AM
There is a ton of corruption in other Non-Muslim nations, including countries like South Sudan, the DRC, North Korea, Venezuela, Cambodia etc. Practically any non-developed country. Any place where the state is not advanced enough, corruption is always present, and this is not a fault of religion. Yes, there is widespread corruption in the middle east and other Muslim states, but because of the thing common in all such states, is the hindrance of development. The irregular national borders as an example, and the constant problems created by Western interference. More civilians have died due to American drones than terrorists. The terrorists themselves have been created due to the strife that came after the Gulf and Iraq wars. There are more terrorists now than ever as a result of people witnessing these wars and joining on the sides of these groups. Such actions create more people opposed to the US and thus more terrorists fed up with such nonsense.

It's the most simple of war based politics a person can know. War leads to War Exchaustion which leads to the rebels. The rebels then rebel against both sides. And this is a very common military tactic employed in history. You declare war on a nation, and tire it down for years despite winning in the first one, to create internal problems alongside the external ones. This is more beneficial than outright winning. Dragging the war to create internal tension.

10-05-2015, 10:19 PM
jazakhallah for replies. mainly is it fault of western countries for muslim country corruption?

10-06-2015, 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
Are western countries considered the main perpetrators of corruption in Muslim majority countries?
Do you see where this is heading? Pointing fingers won't help the Ummah.

10-06-2015, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
jazakhallah for replies. mainly is it fault of western countries for muslim country corruption?
No. The issue is a complex one. There are shades of grey with this. This is illustrated in the article I've referenced above titled America, Oil, and War in the Middle East.

In my opinion, the simple answers to the allegations of the non-Muslims you have encountered are as follows:

1. Corruption does not only exist in Muslim countries. There is widespread corruption in non-Muslim countries as well. (see references above)

2. Muslims are not solely responsible for the conflicts in their countries. There are complex foreign elements associated with these conflicts. (see references above)

10-17-2015, 10:32 AM
35 countries where the U.S. has supported fascists, drug lords and terrorists

As the situation in Ukraine continues to fester, a handy history guide -- from A (Argentina) to Z (Zaire)



This article originally appeared on*Alternet.

The U.S. is backing Ukraine’s extreme right-wing Svoboda party and violent neo-Nazis whose armed uprising paved the way for a Western-backed coup. Events in the Ukraine are giving us another glimpse through the looking-glass of U.S. propaganda wars against fascism, drugs and terrorism. The ugly reality behind the mirror is that the U.S. government has a long and unbroken record of working with fascists, dictators, druglords and state sponsors of terrorism in every region of the world in its elusive but relentless quest for unchallenged global power.

Behind a firewall of impunity and protection from the State Department and the CIA, U.S. clients and puppets have engaged in the worst crimes known to man, from murder and torture to coups and genocide. The trail of blood from this carnage and chaos leads directly back to the steps of the U.S. Capitol and the White House. As historian Gabriel Kolko observed in 1988, “The notion of an honest puppet is a contradiction Washington has failed to resolve anywhere in the world since 1945.” What follows is a brief A to Z guide to the history of that failure.

1. Afghanistan
In the 1980s, the U.S. worked with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to overthrow Afghanistan’s socialist government. It funded, trained and armed forces led by conservative tribal leaders whose power was threatened by their country’s progress on education, women’s rights and land reform. After Mikhail Gorbachev withdrew Soviet forces in 1989, these U.S.-backed warlords tore the country apart and boosted opium production to an unprecedented level of*2,000 to 3,400 tons per year. *The Taliban government cut opium production by 95% in two years between 1999 and 2001, but the U.S. invasion in 2001 restored the warlords and drug lords to power. Afghanistan now ranks*175th out of 177countries in the world for corruption,*175th out of 186*in human development, and since 2004, it has produced an unprecedented 5,300 tons of opium per year. *President Karzai’s brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, was well known as*a CIA-backed drug lord. After a major U.S. offensive in Kandahar province in 2011, Colonel Abdul Razziq was appointed provincial police chief, boosting a*heroin smuggling operation*that already earned him $60 million per year in*one of the poorest*countries in the world.

2. Albania
Between 1949 and 1953, the U.S. and U.K. set out to overthrow the government of Albania, the smallest and most vulnerable communist country in Eastern Europe. *Exiles were recruited and trained to return to Albania to stir up dissent and plan an armed uprising. Many of the exiles involved in the plan were former collaborators with the Italian and German occupation during World War II. They included*former Interior Minister Xhafer Deva, who oversaw the deportations of “Jews, Communists, partisans and suspicious persons” (as described in a Nazi document) to Auschwitz. Declassified U.S. documents have since revealed that Deva was one of*743 fascist war criminals*recruited by the U.S. after the war.

3. Argentina
U.S. documents declassified in 2003*detail conversations between U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and Argentinian Foreign Minister Admiral Guzzetti in October 1976, soon after the military junta seized power in Argentina. Kissinger explicitly approved the junta’s “dirty war,” in which it eventually killed up to 30,000, most of them young people, and stole 400 children from the families of their murdered parents. Kissinger told Guzzetti, “Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed… the quicker you succeed the better.” The U.S. Ambassador in Buenos Aires reported that Guzzetti “returned in a state of jubilation, convinced that there is no real problem with the US government over that issue.” *(“Daniel Gandolfo,” “Presente!”)

4. Brazil
In 1964, General Castelo Branco led*a coup that sparked 20 years of brutal military dictatorship. U.S. military attache Vernon Walters, later Deputy CIA Director and UN Ambassador, knew Castelo Branco well from World War II in Italy. *As a clandestine CIA officer, Walters’ records from Brazil have never been declassified, but the CIA provided all the support needed to ensure the success of the coup, including funding for opposition labor and student groups in street protests, as in Ukraine and Venezuela today. *A U.S. Marine amphibious force on standby to land in Sao Paolo was not needed. Like other victims of U.S.-backed coups in Latin America, the elected President Joao Goulart was a wealthy landowner, not a communist, but his efforts to remain neutral in the Cold War were as unacceptable to Washington as President Yanukovich’s refusal to hand the Ukraine over to the west 50 years later.

5. Cambodia
When President Nixon ordered*the secret and illegal bombing of Cambodia*in 1969, American pilots were ordered to falsify their logs to conceal their crimes. They killed at least half a million Cambodians, dropping more bombs than on Germany and Japan combined in World War II. As the Khmer Rouge gained strength in 1973, the CIA reported that its “propaganda has been most effective among refugees subjected to B-52 strikes.” After the Khmer Rouge killed at least 2 million of its own people and was finally driven out by the Vietnamese army in 1979, theU.S. Kampuchea Emergency Group, based in the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, set out to feed and supply them as the “resistance” to the new Vietnamese-backed Cambodian government. Under U.S. pressure, the World Food Program provided $12 million to feed 20,000 to 40,000 Khmer Rouge soldiers. For at least another decade, the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency provided the Khmer Rouge with satellite intelligence, while U.S. and British special forces trained them to lay millions of land mines across Western Cambodia which still kill or maim hundreds of people every year.



'Abd-al Latif
10-17-2015, 10:40 AM
Originally Posted by BilalKid

is there a simple answer to this, trying to think of a reason. Many non muslim say this alot.
Here is your answer:

1914: The Shaping of the Modern Muslim World - Part 1 ~ Dr. Yasir Qadhi

Part 1

Part 2

10-17-2015, 10:51 AM
100 years ago, the U.S. invaded and occupied this country. Can you name it?

century ago, American troops invaded and occupied a foreign nation. They would stay there for almost two decades, install a client government, impose new laws and fight insurgents*in bloody battles on*difficult terrain. Thousands of residents perished*during what turned out to be 19 years of de facto U.S. rule.

The country was*Haiti, the Caribbean nation that's often seen by outsiders as a metaphor for poverty and disaster. Yet*rarely are Americans*confronted with their own hand in its misfortunes.

On Tuesday, a group of protesters*marched*to the U.S. Embassy in the Haitian capital Port-au-Prince in commemoration of the grim legacy of the U.S. occupation, which began in July 1915 after President Woodrow Wilson used political chaos and violence*in the country as grounds to intervene. Some in Washington feared the threat of*competing French and German interests in the Caribbean.

The*liberal,*democratic values Wilson so famously championed in Europe were not so visible in Haiti, a largely black*republic that since its*independence from France*a century earlier had been regarded with fear and contempt by America's white ruling classes. "Think of it! N------s speaking French,"*quipped*William Jennings Bryan, Wilson's secretary of state, in a chilling echo of the Jim Crow-era bigotry of the time.

Though framed as an attempt to bring stability to an unstable, benighted land, the United States "also wanted to make sure that the Haitian government was compatible to American economic interests and friendly to foreign investment,"*writesLaurent Dubois, a Duke University academic*and author of "Haiti: The Aftershocks of History."

"In Haiti, the reality of American actions sharply contradicted the gloss of [American leaders'] liberal protestations,"*wrote*the historian Hans Schmidt, whose*1971 book on the U.S. occupation*is still a widely cited text. "Racist preconceptions, reinforced by the current debasement of Haiti's political institutions, placed the Haitians far below levels Americans considered necessary for democracy, self-government, and constitutionalism."

was also a moment where Washington did little to disguise its sense of imperial entitlement in the*neighborhood. A number of fledgling governments*in*the Caribbean and Central America*all*suffered*U.S. invasions and the imposition of policies favorable to American*strategic interests and big business.*Banana republics*didn't just spring up on their own.

Here's*a summation of events*in Haiti from*the U.S. State Department's Office of the Historian:The United States gained complete control over Haitian finances, and the right to intervene in Haiti whenever the U.S. Government deemed necessary. The U.S. Government also forced the election of a new pro-American President, Philippe Sudré Dartiguenave, by the Haitian legislature in August 1915. The selection of a President that did not represent the choice of the Haitian populace increased unrest in Haiti.

Following the successful manipulation of the 1915 elections, the Wilson administration attempted to strong-arm the Haitian legislature into adopting a new constitution in 1917. This constitution allowed foreign land ownership, which had been outlawed since the Haitian Revolution as a way to prevent foreign control of the country. Extremely reluctant to change the long-standing law, the legislature rejected the new constitution. Law-makers began drafting a new anti-American constitution, but the United States forced President Dartiguenave dissolve the legislature, which did not meet again until 1929.

Particularly in 1919 and 1920, rebel uprisings sought to dislodge U.S. influence on the island. The revolts were in part spurred by the heavy-handed practices of the American occupation, which included segregation and enforced chain gangs to build roads and other construction projects. There was brutal*suppression, according to eyewitness accounts."Military camps have been built throughout the island. The property of natives has been taken for military use. Haitians carrying a gun were for a time shot at sight. Many Haitians not carrying guns were also shot at sight,"*wrote*Herbert Seligman in the Nation magazine in 1920. "Machine guns have been turned into crowds of unarmed natives, and United States marines have, by accounts which several of them gave me in casual conversation, not troubled to investigate how many were killed or wounded."

Dubois*cites*one notorious*image taken by a U.S. marine of the slain Haitian rebel Charlemagne Peralte, strung up naked in a loin cloth. The photo*was disseminated across the island as a warning against insurgency, but instead — with its haunting evocation*of the crucifixion — became "an icon of resistance."

The Haitian-American author*Edwidge Dandicat*writes*further on the memory of the violence:One of the stories my grandfather’s oldest son, my uncle Joseph, used to tell was of watching a group of young Marines kicking around a man’s decapitated head in an effort to frighten the rebels in their area. There are more stories still. Of the Marines’ boots sounding like Galipot, a fabled three-legged horse, which all children were supposed to fear. Of the black face that the Marines wore to blend in and hide from view. Of the time U.S. Marines assassinated one of the occupation’s most famous fighters, Charlemagne Péralte, and pinned his body to a door, where it was left to rot in the sun for days.To be sure, the U.S. occupation wasn't all bloodshed and brutality. Haiti's infrastructure was considerably*improved, its education system revamped, and Port-au-Prince was turned into a teeming metropolitan center. But the lengthy 19-year-period of domination*is hardly remembered with fondness.

"The American occupation was a failure," said Herold Toussaint, a professor at the State University of Haiti, in an interview with*the Miami Herald. "There was stability of [the domestic currency] and they diminished corruption in the public administration. But the objective they had, friendly relations between Haiti and the U.S., didn't happen."

As the journalist Jonathan Katz details in*his book on Haiti's long, miserable experience*with foreign aid and intervention, the Americans left behind a new template for inequity and misrule.

"After the United States left in 1934, their successors continued bolstering [Port-au-Prince's] control over rural politics, expropriating peasant land for factories that produced commodities for the United States and stifling dissent using the army the Americans created," Katz writes.

In 1933, Smedley Butler, a former*general in the U.S. Marine Corps,*spoke with uncommon venom*about the role his troops played in Haiti and beyond:

I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps.
I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General.
And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism ... I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in.
I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street."
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket,"*concluded*Butler.*

"Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints."


Haiti ranks 165 out of 174 countries and earned a score of 19 out of 100.Haiti was struck by a massive earthquake in 2010, but the 2 billion dollars that came into Haiti as funds for the people inflicted by the earthquake was consumed by the rampant corruption practiced by the bureaucracy.
The 2011 Human Rights Report by the U.S. State Department found that corruption “remained widespread in all branches and at all levels of government” even after Haiti elected a new president in 2011. “In this country everything is money,” Chairman of the Port-au-Prince Bar Association Stanley Gaston said. “There isn’t value in any other thing.


10-17-2015, 11:26 AM
Corruption is the natural state of humanity. The relevant question is thus not why there is so much corruption in this or that country, but rather, how some have managed to have far less of it than others.

10-17-2015, 12:29 PM
War and Corruption in only Muslim countries? :D yeah ok... when they've pulled their heads out of the sand pit, maybe they can look around a little and realise war is fought on many fronts... the biggest of which is the war for your opinion (vote) and the media is a tool which is designed to brain wash us - they declared war on your conscious and subconscious.

And apparently it worked, why else would you ask such a question, right?


10-17-2015, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
War and Corruption in only Muslim countries? :D yeah ok... when they've pulled their heads out of the sand pit, maybe they can look around a little and realise war is fought on many fronts... the biggest of which is the war for your opinion (vote) and the media is a tool which is designed to brain wash us - they declared war on your conscious and subconscious.

And apparently it worked, why else would you ask such a question, right?


Depends on how one uses the media really,
how would you have described a t.v to people 1400 years ago?
(the t.v is obviously not Allah nor is the cathode ray lamp, but it can certainly disseminate the light of Allah).

And WE have sent down to you manifest Signs,
and have related to you the example of those who have passed away before you,
and an admonition to the God-fearing.

ALLAH is the light of the heavens and the earth. HIS light is as if there were a lustrous niche, wherein is a lamp.
The lamp is inside a glass-globe. The globe is, as it were, a glittering star.
The lamp is lit from the oil of a blessed tree -an olive - neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil well-nigh would shine forth even though fire touched it not.
Light upon light ! ALLAH guides to HIS light whomsoever HE pleases. And ALLAH sets forth parables for men, and ALLAH knows all things full well.

This light illumines houses with regard to which ALLAH has ordained that they be exalted and that HIS name be remembered in them. Therein do glorify HIM in the mornings and the evenings.

Men, whom neither merchandise nor traffic diverts from the remembrance of ALLAH and the observance of Prayer, and the giving of Zakat. They fear a day in which hearts and eyes will be in a state of agitation and anguish;

So ALLAH will give them the best reward of their deeds, and give them increase out of HIS bounty. And ALLAH does provide for whomsoever HE pleases without measure.

And (as for) those who disbelieve, their deeds are like the mirage in a desert, which the thirsty man deems to be water; until when he comes to it he finds it to be naught, and there he finds Allah, so He pays back to him his reckoning in full; and Allah is quick in reckoning;

Or, their deeds are like thick layers of darkness spread over a vast and deep sea, on whose surface rise waves above waves, above which are clouds - layers upon layers of darkness. When he holds out his hands, he can hardly see it; and he whom ALLAH gives no light - for him there is no light at all.

From Chapter 24 An-Nur


10-17-2015, 08:06 PM
Islam is a threat and the only religion which can bring peace and justice in todays world. The powers that be know this and that's why our blood is spilt all over the world.

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