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umairlooms
10-25-2015, 11:45 AM
I am big believer in peace and harmony and have been brought up to feel at ease among anyone, any sect of islam , or any religion. However I cannot help but feel (through my travels and discussions) that people's views on Islam are becoming more and more negative and MAYBE even feeding into intolerance. I live in an Islamic country now, so perhaps my own feelings might not reflect reality.

How do you feel in your communities, countries etc
How do you feel in France, China, Mexico etc
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farhan
10-25-2015, 06:38 PM
In our local community it's mostly non Muslims but alhamdulilah Islam is neutral. There are always a small minorities of haters, but in general it's okay.
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IslamicRevival
10-25-2015, 06:46 PM
Reminded me of this Hadith.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said: "Islam began as a stranger and shall return as a stranger as it began. So give glad tidings to the strangers". [Sahih Muslim]
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sister herb
10-25-2015, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by فرحان
In our local community it's mostly non Muslims but alhamdulilah Islam is neutral. There are always a small minorities of haters, but in general it's okay.
I think that those haters would hate everything what is strange anyways - now their target is Islam and Muslims but they are generally same kind of people whose during the history have hated and victimized very different kind of groups of people and religions. It seems that there always is some percent of the population whose are those "haters". Depends on the situation who are hated by them.
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Mister Agenda
10-26-2015, 03:12 PM
In the USA there is a sort of industry perpetuated by the likes of Pamela Geller that fans the flames of dislike for Muslims. I would say there is more dislike for Muslims, especially among conservative fundamentalist Christians in America now than there was the year after 9/11/2001. Thus encouraged, they attempt to interfere in the legal establishment of mosques and clamor for Muslims to not be allowed to immigrate to the USA. They are fearful people being told their fears are justified.

However, I expect the Democratic nominee for president to be elected, which should at least ensure that our immigration laws are not changed to discriminate against Muslims.
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Pygoscelis
10-26-2015, 07:28 PM
Islamophobia hit a peak shortly after 9/11. That was quite some time ago now, and ever since I think Canada at least is becoming far more tolerant of Islam. We never reached the fevered peak of the USA or France on this, but we did recently have that much-to-do-about-nothing with the swearing in ceremony for immigrants and wearing the veil. Canada resoundingly booted out the prime minister who wanted to ban the veil in that circumstance, so that is a positive sign. We have a lot more shops in my area advertising that they offer halal meats, and nobody seems to object to that, which is another good sign. Now that I think on it, it has actually been quite some time since I encountered anybody speaking of Islam or Muslims negatively, at least in the bogeyman terrorist sense. It seems to have gone back to being seen as just another religion, and not something to worry too much about.
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DanEdge
11-10-2015, 09:00 AM
Greetings,

The view of Islam in the US is still in flux. As others have indicated, the 9/11 attacks stirred up a lot of emotion and difference of opinion.

The radical right in America are mostly anti-Islam, many arguing that the US is at war with Islam as such. These folks are pushing for immigration restrictions from predominantly Islamic countries, sanctions against them, etc. The rise of ISIL has given new strength to this contengent of thought. Some ideas propogated in the Islamic community, ie, that 9/11 was a "false flag" attack, that virtually all terrorists actions by Muslims are really Zionist/American undercover operations, etc., further support this negative view.

More liberal American thinkers are opposed to religious bias against Islam. The US is suppsed to be a haven of religious tolerance, and as such Islam must be protected under the 1st Amendment.

I believe that most Americans are opposed to economic and military actiosn against Islamic countries, unless and until they directly attack the US. This hasn't happened, so hopefully we will stay out of conflicts which are, in my opinion, none of our business. I hope that our open immigration policies remain unchanged, and that Muslims are welcome in our country along with everyone else in the world -- so long as they respect our liberal democratic principles.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
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Abz2000
11-10-2015, 09:08 AM
Which principles are those? What defines them? And who (other than the corporate and moneyed interests which present leaders, policies, crises and talking points to the general public) defines them?
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sister herb
11-10-2015, 09:22 AM
I think there is also something to do that the West always needs an enemy. Before their enemy were the Reds (communism, the Soviet Union). Soon after the USSR collapsed, they changed their enemy to Islam and Muslims. Like now in some movies the bad guy is called a terrorist, he has beard and he is most likely a Muslim. Before he was a Russian secret agent (who wanted to destroy the world). And movies are one way to manipulate the western people's attitudes and values.

If they wait that Islam will collapse too like the Reds before and then they can change their target to something else... they have to wait a long time.
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DanEdge
11-10-2015, 09:32 AM
Abz,

For founding principles of America, I refer you to The 2nd Treatise of Goverment by John Lock, The Federalist Papers by various authors, the letters of Thomas Jefferson, and the founding US documents: The Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights, and The Constitution. The 1st Amendment of The Bill of Rights and Articles on Religious Freedom by Thomas Jefferson are crucially relevant.

--Dan Edge
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DanEdge
11-10-2015, 09:35 AM
Sister Herb,

I agree that our culture is akways in search for an enemy. War against "the other" brings people together. I do not say that this is right, only that it is common, perhaps natural.

--Dan Edge
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Abz2000
11-10-2015, 09:46 AM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
Greetings,

The view of Islam in the US is still in flux. As others have indicated, the 9/11 attacks stirred up a lot of emotion and difference of opinion.
Then we really need a new and scientific investigation of the events of, leading up to, and after 9/11

Originally Posted by DanEdge
The radical right in America are mostly anti-Islam, many arguing that the US is at war with Islam as such. These folks are pushing for immigration restrictions from predominantly Islamic countries, sanctions against them, etc.
What defines "the radical right", is it a gang or a people who form a nation bound by a valid set of principles? Or just a construct conjured by spin doctors upon the minds of the adherents of such a notion - and who are it's accepted advocate leaders?

Originally Posted by DanEdge
The rise of ISIL has given new strength to this contengent of thought.
Weren't "ISIL" united as a political movement after the atrocities and humiliation the people of the region were subjected to?
And do you believe that the large body of people who have accepted Islam as their principle defining way of life have no right to representative leadership other than those forced or manipulated onto them by the corrupt bankers, corporations and banker and corporation handled politicians?

Originally Posted by DanEdge
Some ideas propogated in the Islamic community, ie, that 9/11 was a "false flag" attack, that virtually all terrorists actions by Muslims are really Zionist/American undercover operations, etc., further support this negative view.
do you believe that the islamic community should refrain from propagating the idea that 9/11 was a false flag and that "virtual?lly all" / the majority of military guerilla tactics are really zionist/American undercover operations unlawfully perpetrated with the aim of enforcing a false illusion that Islam is somehow related to crime - even if all common sense, scientific facts and evidence point toward the direction that they are in fact false flags?

Originally Posted by DanEdge
More liberal American thinkers are opposed to religious bias against Islam. The US is suppsed to be a haven of religious tolerance, and as such Islam must be protected under the 1st Amendment.
What defines "liberal thinkers" and what validates their frame of mind, and what compels the planet to accept and submit to the rationality and authority of "liberal thinkers"?


Originally Posted by DanEdge
I believe that most Americans are opposed to economic and military actiosn against Islamic countries, unless and until they directly attack the US.
Again you define a majority within a conjured body, what defines the U.S? And why hasn't such a majority retrieved all soldiery, military bases and corrupt puppets from the lands in which Islam is accepted as the way of life by the majority of people?

Originally Posted by DanEdge
This hasn't happened, so hopefully we will stay out of conflicts which are, in my opinion, none of our business.
Who is we? And have you delivered on such a promise once defined?

Originally Posted by DanEdge
I hope that our open immigration policies remain unchanged, and that Muslims are welcome in our country along with everyone else in the world -- so long as they respect our liberal democratic principles.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
What do you mean by "our"? Which principles are those? What defines them? And who (other than the corporate and moneyed interests which present leaders, policies, crises and talking points to the general public) defines them?
From what i can perceive, the whole of the above quoted statement was geared towards casting into the the mind of the reader the illusion of a fully defined body that accepts the principles it projects as binding and authoritative, and issues a frame of mind which people ought to fall into in order to be liked by the described body, and then tells them how to fit into that conjured matrix in order to be liked, however the matrix itself appears to have no defining factors to it and appears to be colourful smoke- And God knows best.



Below is a description of some of the reaction the final Prophet pbuh was faced with when he (pbuh) was instructed to proclaim the message from the Master of the universe that he (pbuh) was tasked with, and how he and the believers came through:


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DanEdge
11-10-2015, 10:09 AM
Greetings,

Thanks to Abz for illustrating my point, all over Islamic Board. Americans are afraid of Islam today because of the extremists who narrowly interpret Islam as anti-Modernism, anti-West, anti-Semitism, Absolutist, and anti-religious freedom.

In the few weeks I've been a part of this website, I've received an overwhleming welcome, full of love and life. Most folks have greeted me as a brother, a neighbor, a friend. Thanks so much to you!!! You have helped me see Muslims as a primarily peaceful and respectful people, who would accept me regardless of my personal beliefs. But I've seen another side.

I have read a post here condemning all Shi'a as evil enemies. I've seen Abz and others excuse terrorism as either a nonexistent fantasy, or an international conspiracy, or a justified reaction to insults to Islam. This is what Americans are afraid of: not the extremists, not the militant Islamic jihadist, but the average every day Muslim who refuses to condemn such views. It's shocking to me the amount of anti-Semitism and anti-Westernism publicized on a well-moderated site to advance Islam to the masses.

If average Muslimsdo not stand up to such atrocities as, say, the boming of a Russian plane -- an accomplishment publicy celebrated by ISIL -- then I'm afraid the anti-Islam bias in America will endure.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
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Abz2000
11-10-2015, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
Greetings,

Thanks to Abz for illustrating my point, all over Islamic Board. Americans are afraid of Islam today because of the extremists who narrowly interpret Islam as anti-Modernism, anti-West, anti-Semitism, Absolutist, and anti-religious freedom.

In the few weeks I've been a part of this website, I've received an overwhleming welcome, full of love and life. Most folks have greeted me as a brother, a neighbor, a friend. Thanks so much to you!!! You have helped me see Muslims as a primarily peaceful and respectful people, who would accept me regardless of my personal beliefs. But I've seen another side.

I have read a post here condemning all Shi'a as evil enemies. I've seen Abz and others excuse terrorism as either a nonexistent fantasy, or an international conspiracy, or a justified reaction to insults to Islam. This is what Americans are afraid of: not the extremists, not the militant Islamic jihadist, but the average every day Muslim who refuses to condemn such views. It's shocking to me the amount of anti-Semitism and anti-Westernism publicized on a well-moderated site to advance Islam to the masses.

If average Muslimsdo not stand up to such atrocities as, say, the boming of a Russian plane -- an accomplishment publicy celebrated by ISIL -- then I'm afraid the anti-Islam bias in America will endure.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
God knows what my post must have come across as to you, to me it was a request for clarification and a small description of my obervations, especially considering that i see zionist trolls all over the web with all sorts of avatars saying "we should", "we must" and "we ought to". However i also notice that you failed to provide clarification and resorted to emotional string pulls. Oh i feel so hurt that you would think such a thing of me and that you refuse to fall in line with my so solid promises.

Is your second post an instruction on how the Muslim nation like helpless orphans clutching at straws should act in order to gain acceptance of anarchy based atheists or is it a threat as to the consequences of not being wishy washy?
(the last part came across as such).

The following document was penned a few centuries ago, however, some of it may appear as quite new to you in light of the events of the past century:
http://humanevents.com/2007/07/04/wh...-human-events/
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ajr
11-10-2015, 11:12 AM
''If we fall short regarding this deen, leave it to be played with by the people of desires, act like we in agreement with them, remain silent about them and name that to be wisdom, then indeed we deserve the Anger of Allah''

*Sheikh Rabee al Madkhalee*
Al-Majloo 14/230

Islam-Submission to the WILL of GOD….as muslims that is what we adhere to, or aught to adhere to…but today we have become Modern in our approach. We let humanism define us ie. Fearing man and what man would say, never fearing God and Judgement Day…we view the verses in the Quran to a people of days gone by, it doesn’t fit into today’s society, no…because we have friends of different faiths and we should be endearing to them, so when does it end, we compromise and slowly our values are left swirled into the unknowns to be liked by the masses, we become tolerant, we justify our religion so that Mankind can view us as peaceful, so that it can be said why cant more muslims be like so and so…

"Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allah knows all that before putting them to test)." #Quran 29:2-3

This dunya is fleeting, we are met with some form of challenge, its best to ask ourselves who do we want judging us, mankind on this fleeting dunya whom, I might add will not come to our defense in Akhirah as each one will be running helter skelter for themselves, we feel so much pain when someone utters ills and rebukes us, be it in private or public, we cry, we curse silently and then we compromise so that we can be liked, tolerated …how would we feel when Allah tells us on Qiyaamah..’’Remain you in it (hell fire) with ignominy! And speak you not to me’’ #Quran 23:108

EVERYBODY WANTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD, BUT NO-ONE WANTS TO CHANGE!!!! It reminds me of
Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. #Quran 13:11

We ask Allah daily to guide us (Al-Fatihah), but when guidance comes, its not what we like, so we discard it. Are we really prepared to sell our souls for the enjoyment of this world? When we are told it is but a deception!
Fi AmaanILLAH
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Abz2000
11-10-2015, 11:53 AM
And if you were to follow the majority of those of those on earth, they will lead you away from the path of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: and they do nothing but lie.
Quran 6:116

Those who commit shirk will say:
"If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos."
So did their ancestors argue falsely, until they tasted of Our wrath.
Say: "Have you any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us. You follow nothing but conjecture: you do nothing but lie."
Quran 6:48

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DanEdge
11-12-2015, 06:57 AM
Abz,

My last response to you was unclear and unfair. Since you are the author several of the posts on Islam Board that I find objectionable, I directed several criticisms towards you that lump your views together with others that I oppose. The downing of the Russian plane upset me, and I think that has something to do with my outburst.

In any case, we are miles apart in our views of the scientific evidence of the 9/11 attacks and other issues -- so far apart that I don't see any point in discussing the specifics.

Sincerely,

-Dan Edge
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Logikon
11-20-2015, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by umairlooms
Is the world becoming more intolerant of Islam?
Yes.

The Paris attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Charlie Hedbo attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Mumbai attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

All the Islamic terror attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

In every case these attackers needs safe housed to do their planning.

The houses are probably occupied by Muslim women and children sympathetic to Islamic State.

As a result we are even more wary of any Muslim.

Bring your violent minority under control.

Stamp out their dumb beliefs.


That will fix the problem.
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Search
11-20-2015, 02:41 AM
Hi. Okay, I find some what you say objectionable.

#1 You speak as if the global Islamic community is complicit in what is happening with the extremists. Because hey, of course, (sarcasm) extremists announce to all and sundry exactly the specific heinous action they will commit, right? Just in case you didn't know, there is a clear pattern of extremists putting on a "show" to people around them so that they look the same even if they have changed inside of themselves. Also, if you look at the pattern of emerging Islamic extremists, you'll realize that a majority of them become radicalized not through through any in-person interaction but through the social media and Internet communities, which means that of course they are in a position to easily escape detection; also, if say, FBI/CIA/(insert another security force) cannot detect these threats, what makes you think any ordinary Muslim family or friends are a position to do so? Also, let's not forget that the radicalization is specifically occurring within the youth community because of how the Internet has made real-time news about the global atrocities in Muslim countries enter their homes daily.

#2 Do you say the same to people of Western/Eastern European descent in America every time a white supremacist, say, shoots up a place like a black church?

#3 Already, Islamic scholars by consensus have said that extremists are misguided, incorrect, and will have to answer to Allah SWT for their heinous actions. Already, the global Islamic community keep on saying that the extremists do not represent the typical Muslim or traditional Islam. What more do you exactly need?

Yes, I'm all for bringing "violent minority under control" and "stamp[ing] out their dumb beliefs," but are you going to give any suggestions or are you here to simply vent your frustration at Muslims on the board because they are part of the "global Islamic community"?

Originally Posted by Logikon
Yes.

The Paris attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Charlie Hedbo attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Mumbai attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

All the Islamic terror attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

In every case these attackers needs safe housed to do their planning.

The houses are probably occupied by Muslim women and children sympathetic to Islamic State.

As a result we are even more wary of any Muslim.

Bring your violent minority under control.

Stamp out their dumb beliefs.


That will fix the problem.
Reply

Zafran
11-20-2015, 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by Logikon
Yes.

The Paris attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Charlie Hedbo attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Mumbai attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

All the Islamic terror attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

In every case these attackers needs safe housed to do their planning.

The houses are probably occupied by Muslim women and children sympathetic to Islamic State.

As a result we are even more wary of any Muslim.

Bring your violent minority under control.

Stamp out their dumb beliefs.


That will fix the problem.
I think you and Abz will love each other.
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Search
11-20-2015, 02:53 AM
Lol. I'm waiting for the love fest to start.

Originally Posted by Zafran
I think you and Abz will love each other.
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Search
11-20-2015, 03:08 AM
Hey, Logikon! I think you and Abz should get to know each other really well! I think you'll have hate at first-Abz post sight and vice versa, but be a love and write anyway to one another. You wouldn't want to deprive the rest us of entertainment, would ya? As that would be very bad sport of you—tsk, tsk!
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DanEdge
11-20-2015, 08:59 AM
Greetings,

Search makes an interesting point about the role of social media in Islamic extremism.

White supremecists in the South USA also have resorted to social media to spread their message. This resulted in the massacre at a black church is South Carolina earlier this year. The internet creates an impersonal fantasy world for many people. People say things to each other that they would never say in person. I have no idea what the solution is, but I think I think I see more of the problem...

--Dan Edge
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DanEdge
11-20-2015, 09:00 AM
And Search, you're a sarcastic brat :P
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Search
11-20-2015, 03:01 PM
Lol. I know. (Winks.)

Originally Posted by DanEdge
And Search, you're a sarcastic brat :P
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Pygoscelis
11-20-2015, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
Sister Herb,

I agree that our culture is akways in search for an enemy. War against "the other" brings people together. I do not say that this is right, only that it is common, perhaps natural.
It is a dark side of human nature, and the flip side of empathy. We can see on all "sides" those who insist on there being "sides" and hating those not on theirs. Let's not pretend our own "side" is immune, or even our own selves.
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Pygoscelis
11-20-2015, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
In the few weeks I've been a part of this website, I've received an overwhleming welcome, full of love and life. Most folks have greeted me as a brother, a neighbor, a friend. Thanks so much to you!!! You have helped me see Muslims as a primarily peaceful and respectful people, who would accept me regardless of my personal beliefs. But I've seen another side.
I have been here for about a decade. I came after 9/11 possibly for the same reason you did. I wanted to dispel and dismiss the hatemonger myths about Islam. To a large extent the Muslim community here has done that for me. But yes, I do agree that there is another side, and it has been here for a long time. I left the board for a while a few years ago after somebody here called for the hunting down and killing of homosexuals. When I objected to this an admin dismissed my objection, laughing it off. As I recall another admin later agreed with my objection, so all worked out in the end. I agree with you that the majority of a group can give cover to a radicalized minority and often protect them over the outsider because at least in name they are one of them.

It hasn't happened that often here though, and I find that very encouraging. I embody what you'd think many here would consider the ideological enemy, being a liberal atheist, supportive of gay marriage, rights for nudists, legalized prostitution and marijuana, etc., but I can count the number of hate messages I have received in my private message inbox on one hand, in ten years. That says something. Muslims in general get an unfair perception hoisted upon them, partly due to the intolerant radicals who call themselves "Muslim", but probably far more due to xenophobia. Sister Herb is right about that. If it wasn't Muslims today, there would be some other bogeyman people would paint up as the enemy.
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ardianto
11-20-2015, 06:25 PM
As a 48 years old man I can see the difference of perception toward Islam in the past and nowadays. In the past world was tolerant enough toward Islam. People didn't see Islam as dangerous ideology. Different than nowadays which many people in the world have suspicion that every Muslim must be see other people as enemy because Islam order Muslim like this.

But I do not blame the world because this problem started by Muslim themselves. I have lived for long time enough to see the rise of radicalism among Muslims.

Muslims actually have various interpretation of Islam. There are Muslims who interpret Islam in moderate way, there are Muslims who interpret Islam in extreme way. And this is actually affected by few factors such as culture, method of teaching Islam, level of open mindedness.

I understand if the world so worry about radicalism among Muslims. But I hope the world also understand that Muslims are worry with this radicalism too.

Honestly, I am very grateful when I see there are non-Muslims who still tolerant toward Muslims and do not generalize all Muslims as threat. This is really help for Muslims in struggle to eradicate radicalism.
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ConcealedGem
11-20-2015, 09:21 PM
Islam came about as something strange and will leave as something strange, at the end, there will only be a few sincere believers who will stand strong to the haqq, may Allah raise us amongst the believers in yawmul qiyamah. Most of us are probably nervous to go out, because of the recent attacks, but what can we do, the prophet saw suffered more, for example at taif he was abused, he wasn't resentful or angry, he was sad and made dua for their guidance, let's make all that we do for Allah, and may he accept it, Ameen ya rab.
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syed_z
11-21-2015, 03:13 AM
Asalaam O alaikum to all.... Some Verses to Ponder upon as per subject thread...


Surah Al - Ankabut (Verses 1 - 2 - 3)

1. Alif - Laaam - Meeem

2. Do MEN THINK that on their (mere) saying, "We have attained to faith", they will be left to themselves, and will not be put to a test?

3. Yea, Indeed, We did test those who lived before them: and so, (too, shall be tested the people now living: and) most certainly will God mark out those who prove themselves true, and most certainly will He mark out those who are lying.



....Believers will always be tested.... and that is part of this world's life that has been given to us. There is no escape therefrom, there are difficult and easy days. Even the Prophet Muhammad's own family, his descendants suffered persecution and martyrdom....


Abd Allaah said, "Whilst we were with the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), some young men from Banu Hashim approached us. When the Prophet (salAllaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) saw them, his eyes filled with tears and the colour of his face changed. I said, 'We can see something has changed in your face, and it upsets us.' The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'We are the people of a Household for whom Allaah has chosen the Hereafter rather than this world. The people of my Household (Ahl al-Bayt) will suffer a great deal after my death, and will be persecuted



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AhmedGassama
11-21-2015, 03:18 AM
That's what i think, especially in France!

I just entered a french forum and i found everyone pushing their hate on Muslims and Islam and the God of Islam... No comment!
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Futuwwa
11-21-2015, 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by Logikon
Bring your violent minority under control.

Stamp out their dumb beliefs.


That will fix the problem.
Your request is denied. I refuse to conform to notions of collective liability, nor conform to veiled threats of being held collectively liable.

The violent actions you refer to are mainly a response to grievances. Those who choose not to provide redress, or support the continuing denial of redress, can bloody well fight their own fights. I won't stand up and help protect them against blowback for injustices they have chosen to perpetrate.
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umairlooms
11-22-2015, 01:54 PM
People do fail to realize that terrorism has cost Muslims more than anyone. Its amazing how that FACT gets lost.....everyone view of Islam and muslims would be so much different once they realize that.
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