/* */

PDA

View Full Version : Non-Muslim Reading the Qur'an



DanEdge
12-08-2015, 08:08 AM
Greetings,

I have begun re-reading the Qua'ran online for educational purposes. For those interested, I'd like to document my experience on this thread.

Currently, I'm using this translation: http://www.noblequran.com/translation/

I'd welcome advice for other translations, especially if they have footnote references for further study.

Thanks,

--Dan Edge
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Muslim Woman
12-08-2015, 08:31 AM
Hello


glad to know u are reading Quran. U may read short chapters first from the end .


links for tafseer / explanation .


http://www.nakcollection.com/quran-tafsir.html

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir -
  1. www.qtafsir.com
Reply

DanEdge
12-08-2015, 08:41 AM
Analysis of Surah Al-Baqarah:

This document touches on many issues. My first impression is that it is meant to identify Islam with people of the Book (Jew, Christians), while differentiating Islam as a new theology.

The author seems to be upset that other followers of the Book do not accept these new revelations. For the most part, there is a message of unity and peace among people of the Book. Followers of the Book are assumed to be moral if they follow their own code, and will be judged only by Allah.

There are also several interesting passages which indicate that the problem with Book-followers is that they do not accept new revelations. Book-ers assume that all knowledge is contained in previously recorded revelations, but the author disagrees. The author argues that new knowledge is available and ought to be pursued.

The parallels between Jew, Christian, and Islam are very interesting. This Surah mentions Adam, Eve, Moses, Gabriel, Michael, and others who are also present in other religious traditions.

Verse 96 condemns Jews as "the greediest of mankind for life..." At that time in history, the Jewish church was organized in a very hierarchical way, with some focus placed on generating income for the temple and preserving authority for temple leaders. This verse seems to be an objection to that state of affairs.

**I noted that Verse 190-194 is often quoted by enemies of Islam. Upon reading this passage as an adult, I see how out-of-context this passage is seen. Muslims are advised to defend themselves against enemies while conforming to the rules of law. This, after the author makes clear that people of the Book are not enemies, but mis-lead.

More to come if I decide to read the next section and comment :)

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
Reply

Muslim Woman
12-08-2015, 08:50 AM
Hi

here is a site for Quran translation in various languages with search engine.


Comprehensive Quran Search:


Search in multiple languages (English Yusuf Ali, English Picktall, English Mohammad Asad, Turkish , Malay, French, Spanish, German) Topic Search, Phonetic Search, Chapter Search, Topic Index.


Phonetic Search

(
Lets you find verses in the Qur'an by queries such as "Inna atayna !..".)


Topic Index of the Quran

Quran Search: Arabic Word Root Search

Quran Search: Arabic Word Search


Quran Search: Chinese, Chinese Simplified


http://www.islamicity.com/quran/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
DanEdge
12-08-2015, 09:19 AM
Analysis of Surah Ale-Imran:

This document begins with more consternation about the differences between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The author seems very hurt that others of the Book do not accept these new revelations. In the translation I'm reading, the author's theological ideas seem much more modern and easier to explain. The author seems frustrated that others of the Book don't share his new view, and blames this lack of understanding on a disconnection from Allah.

Abraham, Jesus, Mary, Jacob are introduced here, along with common sayings about the blind and the leper.

The author asserts that the previous writings on the one god were incomplete, while Islam is the true source. Islam claims to have the proof.

More and more fire is promised for disbelieves (this is a common theme in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam).

The author makes reference to some specific battles in Islam history, and promises rewards in heaven for those who fight in defense of their country. Again, I have seen these versus quoted out of context as a blank check for slaughtering any non-Muslims. Wrong!

The Surah closes with more disconcernment about other of the Book who don't get Islam. The author is very upset that others of the Book don't accept Islam as new revelations.

--Dan Edge
Reply

sister herb
12-08-2015, 09:27 AM
Thanks for this thread. It´s interesting to see how some non-Muslim sees the Quran. It also reminds me the times when I read the Quran the first time - when I was still a non-Muslim. I appreciate your efforts there to understand our the holy book. Keep reading.

:statisfie
Reply

DanEdge
12-08-2015, 09:59 AM
Analysis of Surah An-Nisa:

This beginning of this document reads like a legal dissertation. The writing style is different, and seems like a different author. It later changes to more of the same from the previous Surahs. Perhaps the author is drawing from a different work?

Rules of marriage and sex are laid down, seemingly for the benefit of widows, old maids, and slaves. This was a time when unmarried women were the lowest dregs of society, so there seems to be a humanitarian mission here to protect disadvantaged women.

"Kill them wherever you find them..." This may be the most often quoted verse professed as proof of the enmity of Islam. But seen in this context, it's clear that those who "do not offer peace" are those who should be killed. This passage is likely in reference to sectarian wars that are not applicable to the present day. I'm starting to see a theme here of misinterpreted Quar'an versus regarding violence. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a liberal looking for reasons to love everybody. I'm just reading the book.

This document begins with legal rules regarding women, then digresses to war stuff, then comes back to woman. Possible that this document was transcribed from earlier documents or oral tradition dealing with these very different issues, but included in the same source. The war stuff was a huge sidetrack, then right back to women's issues.

More stuff about hell and fire for disbelievers, and how Jews don't get it, then end.

--Dan Edge
Reply

Muslim Woman
12-08-2015, 12:56 PM
Hi


you are reading so fast ?
Reply

strivingobserver98
12-08-2015, 01:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Hi

you are reading so fast ?
Maybe he read beforehand making the thread. Let's await his response [emoji4].
Reply

DanEdge
12-08-2015, 01:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Hi


you are reading so fast ?
Greetings,

Not sure what say...

I love to read. I read a lot, every day. I have learned to read very, very fast. I'm an autodidact, ADHD, and have problems with sleeping and anxiety. I also process information and write very fast. I often write analyses of the things I'm reading to retain information, like taking notes.

I hope you found my analyses interesting. More to come.

Thanks,

--Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
12-08-2015, 02:39 PM
Analysis of Surah Al Ma'idah,

Rules and regulations, kind of like Numbers in the Bible.

Here we get an introduction to the dietary restrictions of Islam. I like that it says that Allah will forgive a starving man for eating whatever is available. I thought it odd that the author considers Islam food to be interchangeable with Jewish and Christian food laws. Jews are very specific about that stuff. I wonder if this is another peace offering, like when Paul says in Romans that Christians should eat like Jews when a Jew is a guest in his house.

Also, Islamic can marry Jews and Christians, no problem! Didn't expect that.

Next, more arguments to convert Jews and Christians. I didn't understand the reference to the Messiah in verse 17. Is this a reference to Jesus? I assume so, since they're talking about Mary,. but I don't understand this verse.

Cain and Able are introduced, along with another famous Islamic dictum: "...if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind." This is a very beautiful saying. Apparently, it is derived from the Talmud, but the Jew version refers only to the people of Israel. I like this generalized version better.

Does verse 39 mean you don't really have to cut off the hand of theives, as long as they repent? Harsh justice. Eye for an eye justice is also referenced here.

More conflict with people of the Book. Things are becoming serious. The author wants peace with Book-ers, but they don't agree, and he's ready to fight. Earlier in the Surah, Jew food is ok, but now he's mad about it. Allah will turn them into monkeys and pigs. But wait! Peace returns. People of the Book who "worked righteousness" are loved by Allah.

Side note: The author seems to love and revere people of the Book. All he wants is peace, even if there are minor disagreements. What the hell happened?

More and more respect paid to Jews and Christians (except for that short verse saying Jesus and Mary were wrong). The author has huge respect for Jewish and Christian writings.

But don't worship Mary and Jesus as gods equal with Allah! The author is offended at the notion. There is only one god. The end.

--Dan Edge
Reply

sister herb
12-08-2015, 02:51 PM
Partly your analyzes put me to giggling. No offence. You are a good writer. :giggling:
Reply

Search
12-08-2015, 03:13 PM
:bism:

:sl:

Lol, sis herb, I actually was going to respond to post #11 with explanation, but (sad) I can't find the book in my home which contains exegesis of Quran.

Now, like you, sis herb, I'm going to have to Google, haha.

Lol, I was thinking the same.

@DanEdge : Masha-Allah (as God willed)! That's an Arabic compliment, btw, which we say when we see something good or awesome or something that we like, a form of invoking God to increase blessings in what we've seen!

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
Partly your analyzes put me to giggling. No offence. You are a good writer. :giggling:
:wa:
Reply

DanEdge
12-08-2015, 03:23 PM
Analysis of Surah Al'Anam:

Man is created from clay, and is destined to die, but yet he has eternal life if he believes in Allah. I see echoes of Plato and the Gnostic Gospels. Allah has sent many messengers, but the author believes that those before just didn't get it.

Verse 19 seems to promote a personal relationship with god -- and that this personal relationship provides the best guidance. I like this verse.

But then: hellfire for those that disagree with me! But verse 48, "whosoever believes and does righteous good deeds, upon such shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve." So it's all good. "Salamun 'Alaikum"!!

Side Note: Islamic literature is different from Christian is that there are far less parables and far more logical arguments. The author believes that his arguments are more rational and should therefore be accepted by people of the Book.

"
Stay away from" those who ridicule Islam.Don't fight them or kill them, just stay away. The author hates that others of the Book reject his message, but he doesn't want to kill them.

Many other crossovers with Jews/Christians: Noah, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, etc. Also mentioned is Yahya (John). Is this John the Baptist?

Lots of poetical verbiage asserting the author as the true messenger of God, then "We may make the matter clear for the people who have knowledge." But do not insult Book-ers who disagree, because they are also followers of Allah, just mis-led. The Jews want you to slaughter animals to get right with god, but this is fallacious. (Jesus seemed to share this view.)

Allah forbids the killing of children, but this in the context of discussion about animals? Is the author saying he doesn't want people to kill baby animals (veal)?

Others of the book are not your partners in prayer, but Allah still understands them. More unity of people of the Book.

--Dan Edge
Reply

M.I.A.
12-08-2015, 05:12 PM
Lol, it seems that your just skim reading.

A man looks up at the stars.

1400 years later another does the same.

What has changed?

Not the stars for certainly.
Reply

DanEdge
12-08-2015, 05:37 PM
MIA,

The stars have changed in the past 1400 years. The wobbling of the Earth's tilt with respect to the sun, along with other gravitational and quantum forces, and let's not forget the speed of light and how relativity distorts perception of photons over time, have drastically changed our view of extra-terrestial phenomenon over the years. Things change. Your certainties are illusory. Can you skim read what I'm writing? I read stuff. Certainties are hard to come by.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
Reply

HappyMuslimaa
12-08-2015, 06:08 PM
Mashallah
Would like to point out that these are the words of Allah, unless you are referring to 'the author' as the translator.

I read very quickly as well so I can relate, however I would say pace yourself with reading one surah at a time and find tafsir for that surah to read as well if you wish to continue. That way you can absorb the information 'more effectively. Towards the end the surahs are noticeable shorter, with those you could probably manage more for a Buck.
Best of luck
Reply

M.I.A.
12-08-2015, 06:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
MIA,

The stars have changed in the past 1400 years. The wobbling of the Earth's tilt with respect to the sun, along with other gravitational and quantum forces, and let's not forget the speed of light and how relativity distorts perception of photons over time, have drastically changed our view of extra-terrestial phenomenon over the years. Things change. Your certainties are illusory. Can you skim read what I'm writing? I read stuff. Certainties are hard to come by.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
And that tells me all I need to know about the world.

:)

...tomorrow right?

There was a Sikh poster on the board a while back. Your answers remind me of him.

Knowledge is not power, application of knowledge is power.

And in the difference between the two is getting closeness to God.

...most people would not sacrifice today, losing a conversation is too hard for most people.

The Quranic author you refer to keeps bugging me.. It's written in a third person perspective.

Tell you what the world is, if not how it turns.


Because once you see it, there is no going back.


It's a lot easier to write.


...so be careful who you write for.


Sorry Dan, might have gone of on a tangent.


Em...maybe you should be careful who you read for also.
Reply

HappyMuslimaa
12-08-2015, 06:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.

Knowledge is not power, application of knowledge is power.

And in the difference between the two is getting closeness to God.
Good words
Reply

sister herb
12-08-2015, 06:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HappyMuslimaa
Mashallah
Would like to point out that these are the words of Allah, unless you are referring to 'the author' as the translator.
That was one thing what put me giggling while I read those posts (as I mentioned before).

:giggling:

"He calls Allah as "author"."

Sorry again, no offence.
Reply

DanEdge
12-08-2015, 06:50 PM
Greetings,

I didn't mean any offense, I honestly don't know much about the Quar'an or Islamic culture. I read parts of the Koran when I was a teen, but didn't really get it then. I'm just writing my gut level response a new book. I usually speak off the top of my head. I've read a lot of other stuff, so i try to relate new ideas to ones I've had contact with.

How should I refer to th Author in my writings? Allah? SWT? What is the polite writing method? I'd be happy to alter my writing to respect custom.
Reply

Search
12-08-2015, 07:15 PM
:bism:

:sl:

@IB:

Lol, guys, don't you think that Dan should make the leap that the author is a divine being on his own?

Sorry, it's not that I don't get from where you guys are coming from, but I used to be an atheist/agnostic, and I understand why he refers to the Author as "author."

Dr. Jeffrey Lang, when he was reading the Quran, referred to the Author as "author" too, especially when he relays his conversion story from atheism in a presentation available on YouTube "Purpose of Life." And honestly, isn't it awesomely kind of DanEdge to share his journey with the Quran with us?

@DanEdge :

Allah means "God" and it is neither feminine or masculine form, and it refers to an indivisible, one God, and it is the personal name of God which encompasses all 99 known divine names and attributes. Muslims use "SWT" as an add-on to Allah the abbreviated English form of SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) as a show of high respect and esteem.

Lol, now, I'm put in an awkward position: I don't want to discourage you from substituting "Allah" for author, but I don't want to have you to do anything with which you're uncomfortable either because quite honestly I see this as your personal and unique journey with Quran.

And honestly, we're just happy and at least I know I feel humbled that you wanted to share the journey with us on IB.

So, really, I'd say your choice, bro.

format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Greetings,

I didn't mean any offense, I honestly don't know much about the Quar'an or Islamic culture. I read parts of the Koran when I was a teen, but didn't really get it then. I'm just writing my gut level response a new book. I usually speak off the top of my head. I've read a lot of other stuff, so i try to relate new ideas to ones I've had contact with.

How should I refer to th Author in my writings? Allah? SWT? What is the polite writing method? I'd be happy to alter my writing to respect custom.
Reply

sister herb
12-08-2015, 07:19 PM
To me, author is ok. It gives to those analyzes a personal touch and of course we understand who you are referring.
Reply

M.I.A.
12-08-2015, 07:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism:

:sl:

@IB:

Lol, guys, don't you think that Dan should make the leap that the author is a divine being on his own?

Sorry, it's not that I don't get from where you guys are coming from, but I used to be an atheist/agnostic, and I understand why he refers to the Author as "author."

Dr. Jeffrey Lang, when he was reading the Quran, referred to the Author as "author" too, especially when he relays his conversion story from atheism in a presentation available on YouTube "Purpose of Life." And honestly, isn't it awesomely kind of DanEdge to share his journey with the Quran with us?

@DanEdge :

Allah means "God" and it is neither feminine or masculine form, and it refers to an indivisible, one God, and it is the personal name of God which encompasses all 99 known divine attributes. Muslims use "SWT" as an add-on to Allah the abbreviated English form of SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) as a show of high respect and esteem.

Lol, now, I'm put in an awkward position: I don't want to discourage you from substituting "Allah" for author, but I don't want to have you to do anything with which you're uncomfortable either because quite honestly I see this as your personal and unique journey with Quran.

And honestly, we're just happy and at least I know I feel humbled that you wanted to share the journey with us on IB.

So, really, I'd say your choice, bro.


May Allah swt make it easy for him.
Reply

Search
12-08-2015, 07:55 PM
:bism:

:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
May Allah swt make it easy for him.
Ameen, bro.


@DanEdge :

The word "ameen" is a supplication meaning, "O Allah, respond (to or answer what we have said)."

:wa:
Reply

eesa the kiwi
12-09-2015, 07:54 AM
dan edge it is good you are searching and seeking but we can not do this on our own. as humans we are weak and our efforts are feeble

it is important you supplement your reading with prayer if you want to gain full benefit from reading the quran, we need our creators guidance every second of the day. as a muslim we read in our prayers over seventeen times a day "guide us to the straight path"

if you are uncomfortable saying Allah or god then say "oh the one who created me guide me to the path you are pleased with" be sincere and inshaallah you will see results. it was interesting to read your reflections on the quran and i only wish more non muslims were as open minded

may allah grant you the guidance you seek

eesa
Reply

greenhill
12-09-2015, 08:12 AM
@DanEdge , Yahya is John the Baptist.


:peace:
Reply

DanEdge
12-10-2015, 06:31 AM
Greetings,

Thanks to all who have replied.

I'm going to stop posting on this thread until I can figure out how to do it in a way that will not be against forum rules.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
12-10-2015, 06:37 AM
One last thing,

My response to MIA was arrogant, sarcastic, and inappropriate, and I apologize for the disrespectful post.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
12-10-2015, 08:26 AM
Analysis of Surah Al-A'Raf:

Don't accept misrepresentations of the true religion, because Allah will do the final accounting in the end.

Satan's expulsion is accounted here, along with the his deception of Adam and Eve. He convinces them to eat from the Tree (of Knowledge?), which was forbidden by Allah. Uh oh. Humans have to wear non-extravagent clothes (were they unclothed before?) and obey sexual laws. Proof has been given for these rules, and hellfire awaits those who disagree. True justice was offered to heathens, and they rejected these logical arguments.

Another interesting crossover: Verse 54 provides a very short summary of the creation from Genesis. "Indeed your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days..." Allah is an omnipotent god. He also makes the crops grow. And creates the Flood! Noah survives, and cuts out the roots of non-believers.

Lot, his wife, and Saleh bring more crossovers. Those disbelievers who argued with Saleh got an earthquake in return.

Side note: This Surah is much more like the Old Testament in its account of supernatural stories. In earlier Surahs, the author relies more on on his logical arguments, but here it is clear that Allah will make his point through natural disasters, if necessary.

Lot's famously immoral home town experienced a rain of stones. Shu'aib (is there a Jew/Christian counterpart?) has a religious argument with a chief of the people of Midian, which is cut short when the dissenters are crushed by another earthquake. Allah is hard as nails.

Moses vs. Pharaoh! One of the greatest battles of all time, and the Quar'an does the story justice. Pharaoh is brutal: "Surely, I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, then I will crucify you all." But Moses in undeterred. He has Allah on his side. A torrent of natural disasters afflict his enemies.

I didn't expect an account of the writing of the Ten Commandments in the Quar'an, but here it is in verse 145. But there is no accounting of what Moses wrote on the Tablet. Too bad. There are still 12 tribes created (another crossover), and Allah forgives those fools who worshiped the calf. He's a forgiving and understanding god, as long as you don't try to dismember and crucify his people.

Side note: the term Ayat is referenced over and over throughout all Surahs. I looked it up seems to refer to many things: verses of the Quar'an, arguments, proofs, logic, more. I need to understand this term better to understand what is meant in the Quar'an.

There are many short verses here (170ish-206) that make an argument that I don't follow. I get that the author is saying that Allah represents the truth, while the disbelievers don't. But I think there is something deeper here -- some missing context that I don't understand. In the end, everyone worships Allah.

Thanks for reading,

--Dan Edge
Reply

Muslim Woman
12-10-2015, 08:37 AM

Common Misconceptions against holy Quran :

Does the Quran Hate People of the Book?

.....If you read the Qur’an with a free mind, you can see that it does NOT criticize all Jews and Christians. It is critical only of some among them. And for that matter, the Qur’an does not spare the declared followers of Muhammad, too, when they deviate from truth and justice. Indeed, a considerable number of verses in the Qur’an are directed against the hypocrites among the “followers” of Muhammad himself (peace be on him). This was true of the followers of all prophets, including Moses and Jesus.

If we read the Books of the Old Testament, we find the prophets (and through them God) making very scathing attacks on the people who defied or ignored the teachings of the earlier prophets. For example, we find these verses rebuking the transgressions of the Children of Israel in the Book of Jeremiah 3:8–10:

“And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery, I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. And it came to pass through the lightness of her *****dom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. And yet for all this her treacherous sisterJudah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the Lord.”

And again, Jeremiah 5:7-8:

“How shall I pardon thee for this? Thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots’ houses. They were as fed horses in the morning: every one neighed after his neighbor’s wife.”

And now listen to Jesus rebuking the Israelites of his day in Matthew 23:25-33:

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous and say: ‘If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the ****ation of hell?”

Can any sensible reader accuse God or His prophet here of hating Jews and Christians in the above verses? If not, how then can we point a finger at God, claiming He hates Jews and Christians in the Qur’an when He is rebuking the transgressors among the Children of Israel?

The approach of the Qur’an is clear: God admonishes the People of the Book, those people who were given scriptures, to return to their Books. We find that on many occasions, the doctors of the old religions have distorted the scripture for their own selfish purposes. So God admonishes them and warns them of the impending punishments awaiting them. We read in Jeremiah 8:8: “How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.”

Here the Prophet Jeremiah scolds those of the Children of Israel who made the Book of God false even by the use of a pen that distorts.

We see the same idea in the Qur’an too, where God scolds those people of the Book who wrote their own verses in the Book of God and called them God’s. Can we say that God is being deliberately anti-Jewish here?

http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/...=1124255786495
Reply

Muslim Woman
12-10-2015, 08:39 AM
Does the Quran Hate People of the Book? -2


Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, a renowned American Muslim scholar, writes on this topic saying:

“Taking a few passages from the Qur’an out of proper historical and textual context will not give a proper understanding of the religious scripture. This is not only true of the Qur’an but also of the Bible. Many passages from the Bible also criticize the Jews. Read the Hebrew Bible, particularly Micah 3:1-12 and Hosea 8:1-14, in which these prophets condemned the Jews who ‘abhor justice and pervert all equity’ and who ‘build Zion with blood and Jerusalem with wrong.’

These prophets cursed Israel as a “useless vessel among nations” and called for the curse of God to “send a fire upon his [ Judah’s] cities” (Hosea 8:14) , and to make Jerusalem into “ruinous heaps” ( Isaiah 37:26 ). Prophet Ezekiel called Israel “a rebellious nation.” (Ezekiel 2:3).

Similarly, in the Book of Deuteronomy Moses warns the Jews that God “will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me” (28:20).

Now, read the following verses of the Qur’an, and judge for yourself whether God is attacking Judaism, when He says in the Qur’an what means:

*{O Children of Israel! Call to mind the [special] favor which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill your covenant with Me as I shall fulfill My covenant with you, and fear none but Me.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:40)

And then:

*{O Children of Israel! Call to mind the [special] favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others [for My message].}* (Al-Baqarah 2:47)

Then also:

*{And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel [to this effect]: Worship none but Allah; treat with kindness your parents and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people; be steadfast in prayer; and give zakah. Then did ye turn back, except a few among you, and ye backslide [even now].}* (Al-Baqarah 2:83)

Also read:

*{We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them messengers, every time, there came to them a messenger with what they themselves desired not—some [of these] they called impostors, and some they [go so far as to] slay.}* (Al-Ma’idah 5:70)

You can even read much more if you go to Surah 5, verse 78; Surah 7, verse 137; Surah 10, verse 93; and Surah 17, verse 2.
It is evident from the above verses how God views the Children of Israel in general. This attitude of the Qur’an is in keeping with its stand towards all humans, as it shows when it says what means:

*{O people, We have created you from a male and a female and made you into races and tribes so that you may know each other. Indeed the noblest of you in the sight of God are those who are the most pious among you. And Allah knows every thing and is aware of every thing.}* (Al-Hujurat 49:13)

The above passages make it clear that Muslims cannot use them to justify any acts of hatred or injustice against Jews or Christians because the contexts in which these verses were revealed rule out that possibility. Also because they should be well aware that the same judgment of God awaits Muslims too, if they also transgress. God has no chosen people, except those who fulfill His justice and obey Him with piety and are merciful to all His creation.

The Qur’an was not just revealed for Muslims, but for all people, including Jews and Christians. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was in the line of previous prophets of God, including Prophets Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. And, in fact, the Qur’an is the culmination of all the previous scriptures revealed by God.

The Qur’an does not condemn the Semitic race; in fact it accords Jews a special status, given their shared prophetic traditions with Islam.
The Qur’an criticizes only those Jews and Christians who turned away from God’s authentic message and admonishes those who scorned and ridiculed Prophet Muhammad and the message of the Qur’an. And what is more, the Qur’an specifically notes that such criticism is not directed against all Jews. You often see the expression *{among them there are some...}* placed before such criticisms, so that the good are not condemned along with the bad.

From the Qur’anic point of view, the Jews are descendants of Prophet Abraham, through his son Isaac and grandson Jacob. They were chosen by God for a mission (Qur’an 44:32), and God raised among them many prophets and bestowed upon them what He had not bestowed upon many others (Qur’an 5:20). He exalted them over other nations of the earth (Qur’an 2:47, 122) and granted them many favors.

The Qur’an categorically says that good people are assured of their reward with God (Surah 3, verses 113-115). It further says in Surah 7, verses 159 and 168–170, that among the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. Among them, there are some who are righteous and some who are the opposite. The verses also state that the Creator has tried them with both prosperity and adversity in order that they might turn [to Him]. As to those who hold fast by the Book and establish regular prayer, the verses clarify that they never shall suffer.

Thus it is clear that Muslims have no business to oppose Jewish people or Christians, as such. In fact, Muslims must give special respect to them as People of the Book. Originally, the prophets whom they consider as theirs are equally revered by Muslims.

Both Jews and Arabs are the Children of Abraham (Ibrahim – peace be on him). Jews descended from his second son Isaac (Ishaq – peace be upon him) and Arabs from the first son Ishmael (Isma`eel – peace be upon him). Thus, Jews and Arabs are brothers, though the racism that has crept into the perception of some Jews would deny this brotherhood. To Moses (Musa – peace be upon him) God Almighty revealed the divine scripture known as the Tawrah (Torah) as He revealed to Jesus (`Isa – peace be upon him), the divine scripture called the Injil (Gospel).

Completing the progressive revelation of divine guidance to man, God finally revealed the Noble Qur’an to the Final Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him). All these prophets were the prophets of God and the religion they taught was basically the same religion from God, namely Islam (peaceful submission to God).
Reply

DanEdge
12-10-2015, 09:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HappyMuslimaa
Mashallah
Would like to point out that these are the words of Allah, unless you are referring to 'the author' as the translator.

I read very quickly as well so I can relate, however I would say pace yourself with reading one surah at a time and find tafsir for that surah to read as well if you wish to continue. That way you can absorb the information 'more effectively. Towards the end the surahs are noticeable shorter, with those you could probably manage more for a Buck.
Best of luck
Greetings,

Thanks for your advice.

I agree that guidance by Tafsir (I had to look up the word) is usually best when studying a new book. But I sometimes wade into pure source material without consulting other academic interpretations, so I can first form my own ideas of it. I intend to supplement my studies of the Quar'an with studies of commentary along with in-person discussion with an iman.

Thanks,

--Dan Edge
Reply

greenhill
12-10-2015, 10:28 AM
I believe prophet Shuaib is Jethro.

On the Adam and Eve story, I read somewhere that when they went against Allah's orders (whether by eating or whatever the deed was), they became exposed as a sure sign that they have erred. They immediately repented. And Allah forgave them and again reminded them that syaitan is they're avowed enemy.

Another 'fine' point, it should also be highlighted that the word 'day' as in the creation story, can also mean 'period'. So the world was created in Six periods as opposed to days..

Is there anything else I left out?..

:peace:
Reply

DanEdge
12-10-2015, 11:15 AM
Greenhill,

Thanks for partial answers to my questions! Gives me more to look into.

--Dan Edge
Reply

M.I.A.
12-10-2015, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
One last thing,

My response to MIA was arrogant, sarcastic, and inappropriate, and I apologize for the disrespectful post.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

Lol, be true to yourself. The last thing you need is to trade your personality in a quest to please others..

No apology necessary.
Reply

DanEdge
12-11-2015, 07:15 AM
Moses and the Tablets:

I was doing to some research to find out what was on the Tablets given to Moses. Another Islam-related site website states that the Tablets likely contain the Ten Commandments, the evidence for which is in verses 6:151-152. On first reading, I didn't recognize the correlation between these verses and the Commandments, but upon review it's more clear. Is there a consensus among Muslims on this matter? Are the Tablets given to Moses the Ten Commandments as listed in the Torah? Or is it left open that the Tablets contain more or less information than that? Very interesting.

--Dan Edge
Reply

HappyMuslimaa
12-11-2015, 07:40 AM
On the tablets were the criterion for judgement source: quran 21:48

It does not specify what was on the tablets. If I find another ayat or source for you I will posit it
Reply

DanEdge
12-11-2015, 07:48 AM
Jihad in Surah Al-Baqarah:

I'd like to further unpack versus 190-194 in this Surah. Parts of this are often quoted by Americans as proof of a violent nature in Islam. My first reading lead me to the opposite impression. But to look at it further...

190. And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.

The obvious question here is: What are the limits? There are a few limits proposed in the proceeding versus, but I do not assume that to be an exhaustive list. I'll look into this more.

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Had to look up Al-Fitnah. Wiki gives several definitions, but here I'm assuming it must mean religious persecution. Does this verse imply that Muslims have been turned out of their homes/homeland because of their religion? If so, one can't blame them for fighting back, even on Holy Ground. No one wants to kill on Holy Ground, but if the enemy comes there to attack you first, it is OK to kill them. No problem here either.

192. But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Does this mean that you should stop killing on Holy Ground if the enemy stops? Or stop fighting altogether if the enemy seeks overall peace? I'm guessing the latter because of the context of this discussion along with later Surahs. More study needed.

193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun.

Keep fighting until the fight is done, until the religious persecution ceases... and until worship of Allah is allowed in Muslim lands? Or fight until everyone in Muslim lands worships only Allah? And if the enemy seeks peace, don't fight unless... What? Az-zalimun also has several meanings, according to the all-mighty internet. Do you fight the enemy if he continues to practice polytheism? Or just until he ceases to engage in oppressive activity. Here again, based on the context, I think the latter interpretation is most likely the true one.

194. The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of Equality (Qisas). Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is with Al-Muttaqun.

This verse contains too many things I don't know about for me to unpack right now. Leads to more questions. However, I believe my first impression of the verses here make sense, and that this Surah is incorrectly referenced as an encouragement for terrorism.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
Reply

HappyMuslimaa
12-11-2015, 08:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Jihad in Surah Al-Baqarah:

I'd like to further unpack versus 190-194 in this Surah. Parts of this are often quoted by Americans as proof of a violent nature in Islam. My first reading lead me to the opposite impression. But to look at it further...

190. And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.

The obvious question here is: What are the limits? There are a few limits proposed in the proceeding versus, but I do not assume that to be an exhaustive list. I'll look into this more.

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Had to look up Al-Fitnah. Wiki gives several definitions, but here I'm assuming it must mean religious persecution. Does this verse imply that Muslims have been turned out of their homes/homeland because of their religion? If so, one can't blame them for fighting back, even on Holy Ground. No one wants to kill on Holy Ground, but if the enemy comes there to attack you first, it is OK to kill them. No problem here either.

192. But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Does this mean that you should stop killing on Holy Ground if the enemy stops? Or stop fighting altogether if the enemy seeks overall peace? I'm guessing the latter because of the context of this discussion along with later Surahs. More study needed.

193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun.

Keep fighting until the fight is done, until the religious persecution ceases... and until worship of Allah is allowed in Muslim lands? Or fight until everyone in Muslim lands worships only Allah? And if the enemy seeks peace, don't fight unless... What? Az-zalimun also has several meanings, according to the all-mighty internet. Do you fight the enemy if he continues to practice polytheism? Or just until he ceases to engage in oppressive activity. Here again, based on the context, I think the latter interpretation is most likely the true one.

194. The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of Equality (Qisas). Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is with Al-Muttaqun.

This verse contains too many things I don't know about for me to unpack right now. Leads to more questions. However, I believe my first impression of the verses here make sense, and that this Surah is incorrectly referenced as an encouragement for terrorism.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
These verses refer to a time when the Muslims were being ruthlessly attacked and killed after being forced from makkah . it is a medinan surah. Fitnah is best described as instigating. They are being given terms on which to defend and protect themselves even if it comes to being offensiveness. They may fight back at the same level that they are being attacked, but not to go back on the Islamic ways that Muhammad pbuh has taught us and that Allah swt has prescribed to us .Makkah, or around the Kaba is a holy place where fighting is forbidden. Allah swt says they may fight/defend themselves if they come in mass and they have no choice but to fight . This will be their fate. Az-zalimun are the oppressors. Hope I at least partially cleared some things up
Reply

misshijabi
12-11-2015, 11:23 PM
Dan,

If you go to bayyinah.tv and apply for free subscription, then they will give you one. I usually read quran, and if I need more clarification on something, i go and listen to the explanation of it. If you want, I have a coupon for a free subscription as well, I can send it to you.

Alhamdulillah, Happy Muslimah already answered some of your questions.

Here Nouman Ali Khan explains the context behind those verses: www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=R3iUCqqNdZg
Reply

eesa the kiwi
12-11-2015, 11:26 PM
use this site
if you want to learn more about a verse just look it up and it will tell you the tafsir of what the verse means
http://www.qtafsir.com/
Reply

DanEdge
12-12-2015, 09:41 AM
Miss Hijabi,

Thanks for the reference. I watched that video you posted, along with a few others from the same speaker. I like him, but I wasn't so sure about his analysis of the Surah under discussion. He said the non-Muslims that were re-conquered were given a few weeks to think about whether or not they accepted Islam, then were executed if they did not agree. Is this the common Muslim view? I'd like to hear some others points of view.

--Dan Edge


format_quote Originally Posted by misshijabi
Dan,

If you go to bayyinah.tv and apply for free subscription, then they will give you one. I usually read quran, and if I need more clarification on something, i go and listen to the explanation of it. If you want, I have a coupon for a free subscription as well, I can send it to you.

Alhamdulillah, Happy Muslimah already answered some of your questions.

Here Nouman Ali Khan explains the context behind those verses: www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=R3iUCqqNdZg
Reply

sister herb
12-12-2015, 10:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Miss Hijabi,

Thanks for the reference. I watched that video you posted, along with a few others from the same speaker. I like him, but I wasn't so sure about his analysis of the Surah under discussion. He said the non-Muslims that were re-conquered were given a few weeks to think about whether or not they accepted Islam, then were executed if they did not agree. Is this the common Muslim view? I'd like to hear some others points of view.

--Dan Edge
Forced Conversion?

So the foundation of Jihad is Islamic propagation (da’wah). The question often asked is whether Islam condones and teaches the forced and armed conversion of non-Muslims. This is the image sometimes projected by Western scholars and as any Muslim scholar will tell you, is seriously flawed. The Qur’an clearly states “There is no compulsion in religion, the path of guidance stands out clear from error” [2:256] and [60:8]. In this verse, the word “rushd” or “path of guidance” refers to the entire domain of human life, not just to the rites and theology of Islam.

There is no debate about the fact that pre-Islamic Arabia was a misguided society dominated by tribalism and a blind obedience to custom. In contrast, the clarity of Islam and its emphasis on reason and rational proofs excluded any need to impose it by force. This verse is a clear indication that the Qur’an is strictly opposed to the use of compulsion in religious faith. Similarly, Allah addressed Sayiddina Muhammad r saying, “Remind them, for you are only one who reminds.” [88:21] Allah addresses the believers, urging them to obey the injunctions of Islam, “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if you do turn back, then know that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.” [5:92] However, this verse makes it clear that the Messenger’s duty is only to proclaim and preach the message; it remains to each individual to accept and to follow.


http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/und...m.html?start=3

Also:

http://www.muftisays.com/blog/Seifed...-to-islam.html

Nobody can´t say have rulers ever forced anyone to Islam. If they have done so, we need to remember that not everybody has the wisdom of the Prophet.
Reply

DanEdge
12-12-2015, 10:05 AM
Sister Herb,

Based on the speaker in the video, the non-Muslims were given 4 weeks to decide if they were going to be Muslim or not. Those who declined were free to leave. Those who stayed, and would not accept Islam, were to be destroyed.

--Dan Edge
Reply

sister herb
12-12-2015, 10:48 AM
Here is explanation about that surah:


http://theamericanmus lim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quran_95_commentary

(take this space away from the link - seems it doesn´t show in here without it)

Here is text:

9:5 Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them.

This verse, often called “the verse of the sword”, has been misquoted in a manner similar to the previous verses. First, we shall provide the verse in its context:

9:5-6 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

Having presented the verse in context, we can analyze it properly. Dr. Maher Hathout gives an explanation on the historical context of the verse:

This verse was revealed towards the end of the revelation period and relates to a limited context. Hostilities were frozen for a three-month period during which the Arabs pledged not to wage war. Prophet Muhammad was inspired to use this period to encourage the combatants to join the Muslim ranks or, if they chose, to leave the area that was under Muslims rule; however, if they were to resume hostilities, then the Muslims would fight back until victorious. One is inspired to note that even in this context of war, the verse concludes by emphasizing the divine attributes of mercy and forgiveness. To minimize hostilities, the Qur’an ordered Muslims to grant asylum to anyone, even an enemy, who sought refuge. Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur’an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. (9:6). (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, pp.52-53, emphasis added)

Therefore, this verse once again refers to those pagans who would continue to fight after the period of peace. It clearly commands the Muslims to protect those who seek peace and are non-combatants. It is a specific verse with a specific ruling and can in no way be applied to general situations. The command of the verse was only to be applied in the event of a battle. As Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:

The emphasis is on the first clause: it is only when the four months of grace are past, and the other party show no sign of desisting from their treacherous design by right conduct, that the state of war supervenes - between Faith and Unfaith. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur’an, Text, Translation and Commentary, emphasis added)

If the pagans would not cease their hostilities towards the Muslims, then they were to be fought, especially since they were living in the land of an Islamic state. Dr. Zakir Naik writes concerning this verse:

This verse is quoted during a battle. ...We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: “Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them”. Today if I say that the American President said, “Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them” without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war. ...Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur’an says, “Kill the Mushriqs (pagans) where ever you find them”, during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says:

“If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Qur’an 9:6]

The Qur’an not only says that a Mushriq seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security? This is exactly what Allah (swt) says in the Glorious Qur’an to promote peace in the world. (SOURCE, emphasis added)

Dr. Naik makes some very interesting observations about the verse. Indeed, it is truly amazing how Islam-haters will ignore God’s infinite mercy in their attempt to malign Islam. God has always given human beings a way out of any suffering, and has only ordained fighting as a last resort. Muslim scholars have written much commentary on these Qur’anic verses explaining the historical context in such great detail so that there may be no misconceptions. We have quoted extensively from various commentators on these verses and there is no need to repeat the same material again. We will provide one more commentary before moving on. Professor Shahul Hameed writes on verse 9:5:
This is a verse taken from Surah At-Tawba. This chapter of the Qur’an was revealed in the context when the newly organized Muslim society in Madinah was engaged in defending themselves against the pagan aggressors. The major question dealt with here is, as to how the Muslims should treat those who break an existing treaty at will. The first clause in the verse refers to the time-honored Arab custom of a period of warning and waiting given to the offenders, after a clear violation. That is, they will be given four months’ time to repair the damage done or make peace. But if nothing happens after the expiry of these forbidden months, what should be done? This is what the present verse says. According to this verse, fighting must be resumed until one of the two things happens: Either the enemy should be vanquished by relentless fighting. That is what is meant by {then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem [of war]}; or they should repent, establish prayers and pay zakah, etc. This is one of those verses of the Qur’an which are likely to be misunderstood, if quoted out of context. We must understand that this fighting was against a people who forced the Prophet and his companions to leave not only their own homes but all their property and even their hometown of Makkah to Madinah. Once the Muslims were organized into a community in those lawless times, the rules to be followed by the Muslims were clearly laid down, even in the matter of war. Since Islam is a comprehensive system, no human activity could be ignored. And given the nature of mankind, we cannot imagine a situation where fighting is completely ruled out either. As can be seen, the above injunctions on fighting is not on an individual level, but only in the case of a society that strives to flourish and thrive as a nation. But even here the norms are clear: fighting is only in self defence or for the establishment of justice; and always fighting is the last option. And no one is allowed to transgress the limits set by God. (SOURCE, emphasis added)

Ibn al-`Arabi, in his commentary on the Qur’an, writes:

“It is clear from this that the meaning of this verse is to kill the pagans who are waging war against you.” (Ahkam al-Qur’an: 2/456, emphasis added)
Shaykh Sami al-Majid also makes some very interesting points in his discussion on this verse:

If we look at the verses in Sûrah al-Tawbah immediately before and after the one under discussion, the context of the verse becomes clear. A few verses before the one we are discussing, Allah says:

“There is a declaration of immunity from Allah and His Messenger to those of the pagans with whom you have contracted mutual alliances. Go then, for four months, to and fro throughout the land. But know that you cannot frustrate Allah that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.” [Sûrah al-Tawbah: 1-2]

In these verses we see that the pagans were granted a four month amnesty with an indication that when the four months were over, fighting would resume. However, a following verse exempts some of them from the resumption of hostilities. It reads:

“Except for those pagans with whom you have entered into a covenant and who then do not break their covenant at all nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them until the end of their term, for Allah loves the righteous.” [Sûrah al-Tawbah: 4]

So when Allah says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)” we must know that it is not general, since the verse above has qualified it to refer to the pagan Arabs who were actually at war with the Prophet (peace be upon him) and those who broke their covenants of peace. This is further emphasized a few verses later where Allah says:

“Will you not fight people who broke their covenants and plotted to expel the Messenger and attacked you first?” [Sûrah al-Tawbah: 13] (SOURCE)

Therefore, the context of the verse within the Surah makes it clear that this refers to those who are persistent in their hostilities and attacks against Muslims, and it is applied in battle only. We recommend that one reads Shaykh Sami Al-Majid’s full article entitled There is no Compulsion in Religion.
————————————————� �————————————————� ��——————

Abrogated?

The next issue with this verse concerns abrogation. It has been claimed by some that this verse 9:5 has abrogated all the peaceful verses in the Qur’an. However, this claim results from a misunderstanding of some Qur’anic concepts. In the Qur’an there is naskh and there is also takhsees. Naskh is the abrogation of a ruling by a ruling that was revealed after it. Naskh occurs in matters of Islamic law. Takhsees on the other hand refers to specification, where one verse restricts the application of another verse, or specifies the limits not mentioned in the other verse. As Shaykh Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi writes:

Specification involves one verse limiting or restricting a general ruling found in another verse, whereas naskh involves abrogating the first verse in toto (i.e., it is not applied in any circumstances or conditions). (Qadhi, An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur’aan;UK Al-Hidaayah Publishing and Distribution, 1999, p. 233)
Shaykh Qadhi also explains that one of the conditions for naskh is that the two conflicting rulings apply to the same situation under the same circumstances, and hence there is no alternative understanding of the application of the verses. As he states:

Therefore, if one of the rulings can apply to a specific case, and the other ruling to a different case, this cannot be considered an example of naskh. (Qadhi, An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur’aan;UK Al-Hidaayah Publishing and Distribution, 1999, p. 237)

Therefore, verse 9:5 can in no way be considered an example of naskh since it is only a ruling applied to a very specific situation and circumstances. There is a lot of confusion surrounding some verses labeled as cases of naskh because the early Muslims used to use the word naskh to refer to takhsees as well. Therefore, some Muslims failed to realize that some of these cases labeled by early Muslims as ‘naskh’ were cases of takhsees. This is why some early Muslim scholars are quoted who have classified this verse as a case of ‘naskh’. One should realize that they used the term naskh to refer to a broader range of meanings, including takhsees. As Dr. Jamal Badawi writes:

Any claim of naskh must be definitive, not based on mere opinion or speculation. It should be noted that earlier Muslims used the term naskh to refer also to takhsees or specifying and limiting the ruling than abrogating it. (SOURCE, emphasis added)

Shaykh Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi specifically addresses the confusion about verse 9:5, and after citing the different claims he concludes:

It can be seen from the examples and categories quoted that, in reality, most of these verses cannot be considered to have been abrogated in the least. Some of them merely apply to situations other than those that they were revealed for. Almost all of these ‘mansookh’ (abrogated) verses can still be said to apply when the Muslims are in a situation similar to the situation in which the verses were revealed. Thus, the ‘Verse of the Sword’ in reality does not abrogate a large number of verses; in fact, az-Zarqaanee concludes that it does not abrogate any! (fn. Az-Zarqaanee, v.2, pps.275-282) (Qadhi, An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur’aan;UK Al-Hidaayah Publishing and Distribution, 1999, p. 254)

Shaykh Sami Al-Majid also states the same thing in his article:

Some people – especially some contemporary non-Muslim critics of Islam – have tried to claim that this verse abrogates the verse “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” They argue that the generality of this statement implies that every unbeliever who refuses to accept Islam must be fought. They support their allegation by pointing out that this verse is one of the last verses to be revealed about fighting. However, this verse in no way abrogates the principle in Islamic Law that there is no compulsion in religion. It may be general in wording, but its meaning is quite specific on account of other verses of the Qur’ân that are connected with it as well as on account of a number of pertinent hadîth. (SOURCE)

Shaykh Jamal Al-Din Zarabozo also deals with this issue in his writings on the verse “There is no compulsion in religion”. He mentions the view that this verse has been abrogated as then states:

Al-Dausiri rejects this statement because of the following: A verse cannot abrogate another verse unless it completely removes the ruling of the earlier verse and there is no way to reconcile the contradictory meanings of the verses. (Zarabozo, There is No Compulsion in Religion, Al-Basheer)

This was the view of the great scholars and mufasireen (Qur’anic commentators) both classical and recent, like Ash-Shanqeeti or Ibn Jarir At-Tabari. Shaykh Muhammad S. Al-Awa also comments on this issue in his discussion on the puunishment for apostasy:

At the same time, one can say that the death penalty for apostasy – especially when it is considered as a hadd (prescribed) punishment – contradicts the Qur’anic principle [law] in Surah II, verse 256, which proclaims “No compulsion in religion.” Ibn Hazm, to avoid this criticism, claimed that this verse had been abrogated and that compulsion is allowed in religion; consequently, according to him, the punishment for apostasy does not contradict the Qur’an (fn. Muhalla, vol. XI, p. 195). However, this claim is invalid, since Qur’anic scholars have established the abrogated verses and this verse is not among them (fn. Suyuti, Itqan, vol. II, p. 22-24). Accordingly, one can say with the Encyclopaedia of Islam that “In the Qur’an the apostate is threatened with punishment in the next world only.” (fn. Heffening, Encyclopaedia of Islam, vol. III, p. 736 under “Murtadd”). (El-Awa, Punishment in Islamic Law; US American Trust Publications, 1993, p. 51, emphasis added)

Therefore, when we discuss the merciful and loving verses of the Qur’an and we receive a claim that they have been abrogated by the specific verses concerning battle, we can dismiss such a claim as mere speculation and invalid. Peace and justice are fundamentals of the religion of Islam and can never be removed from it.

http://www.whyislam.org/877/FAQ/q12.asp


I was thinking the other thing while wrote my previous post. I couldn´t watch the video as it´s difficult to me to understand when someone is speaking fast using an American accent. :heated: My English bases quite much to (clear) British pronunciation. :embarrass
Reply

DanEdge
12-19-2015, 08:48 AM
Sister Herb,

Your post has paralyzed me. I've read it three times, and now I'm going to have to go back and read it again before I post more on this thread. You make a man think too hard :)

--Dan Edge
Reply

greenhill
12-19-2015, 09:30 AM
Hi DanEdge, not surprising to read your reaction to sister herbs post. :p

Often, when I come across stuff like this, my mind will bring me back to a story I read about the prophet on his speech regarding the Hajj. He had said that everyone, if able, must perform the Hajj in their lifetime.

Somebody asked if that meant every year? The prophet did not answer until the question was repeated for the third time. When he did answer he was rather upset with the question and told off the enquirer by saying that it people like him that causes splits. The prophet went on to say (words to the effect of) "what if I had said 'yes', then wouldn't it be a burden for all? So why can't you just accept it as what I said, and if you have performed the Hajj, you have performed the Hajj."

In other words, sometimes our questions make our life more difficult. Case in point, when the Jews asked Moses to describe the cow for sacrifice. It was an easy matter but they made it difficult for themselves.. (don't know if this is at all relevant)..

:peace:
Reply

sister herb
12-19-2015, 12:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Sister Herb,

Your post has paralyzed me. I've read it three times, and now I'm going to have to go back and read it again before I post more on this thread. You make a man think too hard :)

--Dan Edge
I didn´t mean anything negative with my post. :embarrass
Reply

Scimitar
12-19-2015, 02:56 PM


:)
Reply

DanEdge
12-20-2015, 02:12 AM
Sister Herb,

I meant it as a big compliment. Your thoughtful post made me pause and think :)

--Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
05-23-2017, 07:17 PM
Analysis of Al-Anfal

My translation (http://www.noblequran.com/translation/) subtitles this chapter "The Spoils of War," and I'm trying to interpret the author's words in this context, but it's difficult to reconcile.

Up until verse 21, this surah is a preamble to the point: "And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad

)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor) and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our slave (Muhammad

) on the Day of criterion (between right and wrong), the Day when the two forces met (the battle of Badr) - And Allah is Able to do all things."

I think the whole point of this surah thus far is to lay down the importance of donation to the church and to disadvantaged people. 1/5th is for God, but this is not just for the church. Donations to other worthy causes also qualify.

It is also a justification of confiscating property from defeated enemies. 1/5 of enemy property is to be dispensed with according to these rules.

When at war, don't free any POWs for any price until you have slaughtered many others (67). Sounds harsh to me.

The author assumes that man will be in a perpetual state of war until all agree of religious issues. However, emigrants deserve protection even if they do not convert, provided they are good citizens and do not violate international treaties.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
06-22-2017, 12:51 AM
Analysis of Al-Taubah

Here we continue the discussion of treaties from the last part of Al-Anfal. Treaties with Mushrikun (non-Muslim foreigners) are to be honored so long as the other party does not violate the treaty first. Mushrikun are to be protected if necessary because in this way they are able to see the mercy of Islam and are placed in a position to here its arguments. This all makes sense, but I was confused by verses 1-3 and 5: Muslims are free from all treaties for four months (in order to hajj?); then when the Sacred Months have passed, they are to "kill the Mushrikun wherever [they] find them." Verse 28 seems to express the same sentiment. How did we go from honoring treaties and protecting foreigners to killing them?

While it may be economically advantageous to trade with non-Muslims, don't be lured in by gold and silver. The author asserts that some Christian and Jewish leaders use places of worship to line their own pockets, often at the expense of the truth. This takes money away from the people who really need it, and it's a grave wrong.

When it's time to fight, everybody's got to fight. Those who don't want to fight are cowards, hypocrites, and worse. They should go hide in a cave somewhere. Even if you are old or infirm, you should want to fight for God and trust in him to protect you on the battlefield. Hypocrites and those who would speak against God, wealthy they may be in life, are promised Hellfire in death. (In later verses we see that those too weak or otherwise unable to fight are granted an exemption, and there is no shame is this so long as one would fight if he could.)

Verse 74 seems to refer to a very specific incident, and provides some context for surrounding verses. A reference is made to an unsuccessful assassination attempt against Muhammad (pbuh). Directly afterwards there is a discussion about those who make a covenant with God in exchange for great Bounties, but then turn away from His teachings. In combination with the first part of this Surah dealing with treaties, one can infer that there was a lot of politics, international relations, and espionage going on at the time -- and a lot of bad blood left in its wake.

Just noticed that, when it comes to the Final Judgement, much focus is placed on deeds, actions, good works, or what have you. Is this an overarching theme?

An interesting and unexpected note from verse 117: Allah has forgiven the Prophet (pbuh) and his followers for losing heart during a journey. I found it interesting and unexpected because you rarely see a conduit to God described as fallible and requiring forgiveness. Or maybe I'm just thinking of Jesus, because most of my religious experience is with Christianity. Jesus had to be described as perfect because he was claimed to be the son of God.

Questions for further study:

  • To what precisely does Mushrikun refer? Does it have a different meaning in different contexts (i.e., sometimes referring to non-Muslim foreigners, sometimes referring to non-Muslim citizens in a Muslim country, etc.)? Why the different treatment of Mushrikun referred to above?
  • What was going on in international politics while this Surah was being written? It doesn't sound like there was a perpetual state of war, but again, it seems like a lot of espionage and such was happening.
  • What exactly did the Prophet (pbuh) do that required forgiveness?


I'll look these things up myself at some point, but as always, thanks for any feedback!

--Dan Edge
Reply

Search
06-22-2017, 02:46 AM
:bism: Bismillah Ir-Rehman Ir-Raheem (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)



format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Analysis of Al-Anfal
Thank you for sharing your understanding on this Qur'anic surah (chapter). :statisfie

When at war, don't free any POWs for any price until you have slaughtered many others (67). Sounds harsh to me.
This injunction was revealed after the Battle of Badr. This was the first military battle in Islam because until then the injunction had been to remain patient and persevere against persecution. However, Meccan forces of approximately 1,000 unbelievers of well-armed men with advanced weaponry decided to annihilate Prophet Muhammad :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) once and for all along with his :saws: following of approximately 400 Muslim converts with not even proper weaponry or shields. However, Allah (God) granted the Muslims victory despite the odds against them. During this time, Allah (God) gave them the option of either ransoming the prisoners of war or killing the prisoners of war and it seemed to them from the divinely revealed words that one option was considered more desirable than the other, but the surviving Companions (may God be pleased with them) disagreed as to which one was probably the better option. Angel Jibreel (Gabriel) (peace be upon him) informed Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) them that should the Muslims choose the option of ransom, they have to do so knowing that the exact outcome of that choice would be that the number of prisoners of wars totaling 70 in number released would become the means later for another battle in which the same number of Muslims totaling 70 would become martyred.

Given those choices, the Muslim converts deliberated among themselves. One set of the Muslims believed that ransoming would the prisoners of war would be better (a) so that later perhaps the unbelievers' hearts could become softened to Islam and they may become Muslims in the future seeing the mercy of Islam and (b) they would then get funds in return to distribute among themselves because they were at that point in time as new converts a persecuted minority that had felt compelled to forsake their homes, their family and friends, tribal allegiance for following this religion, and (c) having 70 Muslims become martyrs in a future battle is not a path to be lamented because that is good news from the perspective of the hereafter. However, another set of Muslims believed that the ransoming of prisoners of war in favor of killing the prisoners of war is an idealistic but impractical decision because the prisoner of wars' release would engender in the released unbelievers renewed will and fervor to kill the Muslim converts another time when they're able to do so and worsen the situation for the already small number of Muslim converts who are no match for the unbelievers in numbers as they foment further hostility against Muslim converts upon their return to their tribes.

Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) heard both sides of the debate and rendered the decision that his (peace and blessings be upon him) being sent as a "mercy" to the world meant that he :saws: will follow the option of ransoming the prisoners instead. Then, the verse (67) was revealed to say that the Companions (may God be pleased with them) who had advised Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) for ransom had advised him incorrectly because the Muslim converts had chosen a path of both difficulty for themselves and created everlasting trouble for all Muslim converts because it did not befit the high status of prophethood and historical rationale which all past prophets (peace be upon them all) and nations of that time used which is that defeating the enemies should also mean defeating the falsehood that they represent.

Moreover, the Companions (may God be pleased with them) who had advised the option of ransom though of course had been motivated at the thought of the unbelievers becoming Muslim at a future date through experiencing the mercy of Islam had also simultaneously been motivated at the thought of personal gain which this ransom money would bring and that nafsani (egoistic) desire was and is seen contrary to the principles of Islam because a person must stand for what is just and correct and truth and not what is profitable from a worldly perspective. The verse (67) was highlighting that the other option of bloodshed though initially seen as the worse and more harsh option is sometimes the better option in the long-term perspective to prevent more conflict and stands also as better for Muslim converts in the hereafter due to lacking mixed motives in this context-specific situation.

So, this path of mercy that Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) picked upon the recommendation of one set of Companions (may God be pleased with them) witnessed the prediction of 70 of the believers becoming martyrs true in the next battle (Battle of Uhud) as Angel Jibreel (Gabriel) (peace be upon him) had informed Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him). And of course this seemingly better decision from the Battle of Badr was the root cause of more bloodshed on both sides in the future.

My personal thought is that this verse in the Qur'an is comparable to what military strategists and politicians and historians and political pundits alike now agree is a strategic and critical mistake: appeasement. If Hitler hadn't been appeased in the beginning when he'd been testing limits, then the bloodiest conflict that WWII represents could have been either avoided or not gotten to be as bloody as it historically came out to be. It is easier after all to solve a problem when it is in the nascent stage and harder and more burdensome and more Herculean a task to do it later when the problem can no longer be contained to that one previous dilemma and now represents a bigger problem.

Sincere Regards & Best Wishes,

P.S.
I love reading your personal thoughts on how you're imbibing and processing the Qur'an. Please continue sharing. :)

Reply

DanEdge
11-04-2017, 03:34 AM
Analysis of Surah Yunus (Jonah):

Echoing a theme from the previous Surah, we are reminded that only those who believe in Islamic Monotheism and exhibit this belief through good works are to be rewarded in this life and beyond.

The miracles of every day natural phenomenon are presented as proof of the one true God. The movements of the sun and moon are one example, allowing those with knowledge to calculate the days, months, and seasons. Clear logic is also asserted as evidence, though as to deeper truths, "the unseen belongs to Allah [SWT] alone." This is a theme found throughout virtually all religions: that reasoning alone is insufficient for true believers. God isn't going to come down from on high and perform miracles for you to prove his existence. Faith plays an important role.

In verse 24, we see another fact of nature -- the life-giving power of rain and water -- presented as proof of the one God. I think this is another developing train of thought to keep in mind as I read further.

There ought be no intermediary between Allah [SWT] and the individual. These passages remind me of the Reformation period in Christian history, in which Martin Luther and others began to press for a personal relationship with God, as opposed to using the Catholic preisthood as an intermediary.

As in other Surahs, we find many, many different ways to say essentially the same thing: those who practice Islamic Monotheism are good and will be rewarded, whole those who don't will be punished. This is a common theme among all religious texts, I suppose. One can grow weary of the refrain.

Moses and the Pharaoh make an appearance beginning in Verse 75. For someone raised Christian like myself, these are some of my favorite passages from the Book because I can compare it to what I was taught as a child. Moses was always one of my favorite heroes from religious history. It's so great to see the moral authority of a great leader elevated above a cruel despot. The story of Moses's trek across the endless desert is one of the most enduring images in history.

Then we return to the main theme: belief in Islamic Monotheism is good, the opposite is bad. The end.

Until Next Time,

--Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
11-11-2017, 02:32 PM
Analysis of Surah Hud:

This Surah begins with a mystery in the very first verse. "Alif-Lam-Ra." I started looking up the meaning of these words, but the answers I found were diverse and complicated. We'll set it aside for now, but I'd like to look into this. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Verse 6 presents another mystery: the author describes a Clear Book which contains information about every living thing in every stage of its development, from in utero to death. From what I can understand from this and later passages, Allah [SWT] uses this book of knowledge to judge the worth of each man and women, in order properly to inflict justice upon him/her.

Verse 17 interested me because it adds to the author's depiction of People of the Book. In some passages I've read, the author seems to love People of the Book, and wishes them well, though he is frustrated by their self-imposed ignorance. Here we see much harsher justice for Book-ers: they "will enter Hell." I don't recall anything like that from previous Surahs; I'll have to go back and check.

Noah has arrived! He's another great character that I always found interesting in the Bible, so I'm excited to read the Muslim account of his adventures. Like in the Bible, most people doubt him and even make fun of him when he brings the warning of God's wrath. Though, when asked by the doubters if Noah will judge them harshly, he says "No." Allah [SWT] is the arbiter of all thing, and Noah feels it's not his place to pass judgment. He's just a humble servant and messenger.

Noah's story is also tragic. His beloved son did not follow him in his belief, so they became separated, and his son drowned beneath the waves. Very sad. Lot experiences a similar tragedy. His wife pleaded for the lives of of those about to be swept away by a supernatural disaster, and as punishment she was left behind to face death along with the rest. Allah's [SWT] wrath is powerful and terrible, just like the God of the Old Testament. This Surah describes the complete destruction of Midian, Thamud, and other peoples.

In general, this Surah is about Allah's judgment of individuals. I believe that with the earlier presentation of the Clear Book, the author is making the case that Allah's [SWT] omniscience extends to individual minds and souls. He knows what you're thinking, what are your deepest desires, what are your true motives. Allah [SWT] knows you better that anyone else possibly can. For this reason, it is argued, He is most fit to pass judgment. Those who sincerely believe will be rewarded in this life and the next, while those who don't pass the test face death, destruction, and hellfire.

I never liked these stories about the destruction of cities, even when I was a Christian. God as described in these stories, while wise and powerful, is also vengeful and cruel. Were I religious, I think I would prefer a more loving, forgiving God who gives you a second chance. Then a third and a fourth chance. In my opinion, there are few truly evil people in the world. Even the best of us have a dark side, and even the worst of us have a silver lining, something hidden deep inside. This is just my opinion.

In general, I prefer Surah passages that point to evidence, logical arguments, and proofs to support the existence of a Monotheistic God. The threat of mass destruction seems overly harsh and unnecessarily intimidating. Why push a man to accept a belief through fear? I like the more positive approach.

The Surah is more familiar to me than any other that I've read, because the stories it tells overlap the Jewish and Christian accounts of the same characters. Very interesting from the perspective of comparative religion.

Thanks for Reading,

--Dan Edge

- - - Updated - - -

EDIT: Peace be upon any prophets I mentioned in the above post. Forgive men, I had forgotten that important piece of etiquette.

--Dan Edge
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-11-2017, 08:36 PM
Please go to tafheem.net, you will find three commentaries. Those are in great detail giving the background /sircumstances in which a surah/chapter or verses were sent down by Allah (The Creator and God) to the Final Messenger and Final Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him).
Reply

DanEdge
11-11-2017, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah
Please go to tafheem.net, you will find three commentaries. Those are in great detail giving the background /sircumstances in which a surah/chapter or verses were sent down by Allah (The Creator and God) to the Final Messenger and Final Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him).
Great site! I checked out the Intro for the Surah I just read, and it gave me plenty of food for further though. Thanks for the reference.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge
Reply

fromelsewhere
12-04-2017, 12:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
"Kill them wherever you find them..." This may be the most often quoted verse professed as proof of the enmity of Islam. But seen in this context, it's clear that those who "do not offer peace" are those who should be killed. This passage is likely in reference to sectarian wars that are not applicable to the present day. I'm starting to see a theme here of misinterpreted Quar'an versus regarding violence. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a liberal looking for reasons to love everybody. I'm just reading the book.

More stuff about hell and fire for disbelievers, and how Jews don't get it, then end.

--Dan Edge
If we take a literal translation of the verse in question:

And they wish that you should disbelieve like they have, then you will be equal; so take them not as your friends until they migrate in the Path of Allah. And if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or helper.

To me, it is clear that it is not those who "do not offer peace" who have to be killed but rather those who "turn away from Allah." See how it can be a little problematic?

And then the stuff about hell and fire for disbelievers... this is the kind of stuff that turns me off. Why would a kind, compassionate and all-knowing God who deosn't make himself obvious be so angry that we do not follow a certain dogma to the point of condemning non-believers to eternal damnation? This makes absolutely no sense to me no matter how I think about it.
Reply

DanEdge
12-04-2017, 04:33 AM
I believe you are taking this Surah quote out of context. From the beginning of the ninth Surah, we see a list of rules about how to engage in combat, written from the perspective of a people who are currently at War for their survival.

Even during these desperate times, faithful Muslims are commanded to take Mercy on their enemy if the enemy forms a treaty, or repents of evil Behavior, or displays integrity, or agrees to live in peace with peaceful Muslims.

It is a gross misinterpretation of this Surah to state that it endorses the wanton slaughter of their enemies.

I recall also that there are numerous passages in the Koran which detail how to deal with members of other religions. Most of these passages reference treaties, peace , and non-violence means of resolution.

I believe that any discussion of this passage from the Surah requires an understanding of how these ancient Islamic laws apply to the historical context in which they were living. One must also take into account the surrounding verses and chapters from the source material. In my view these passages do not support the brutal War tactics of Islamic extremists.

Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
01-21-2019, 02:16 PM
It's been far too long since I worked on this project. But better later than never, right?

Analysis of Surah Yusef

Here we have yet another story with which I am already familiar due to my Christian upbringing: the story of the Prophet Joseph (pbuh). I re-read Genesis in the Bible recently, so I'm going to do my best to empty my mind's vessel and read this alternative perspective from a fresh point of view. For inspiration, I have BBC's "Nature's Greatest Events" playing in the background.



In the first few verses of this Surah, the author makes clear that these revelations are being made specifically to Muhammad (pbuh), and that Muhammad (pbuh) was "among those who knew nothing about it." I had assumed that he was aware of these ancient teachings due to reading them or was taught during his childhood. Given the time and place he was born, one would think he already had exposure to these writings. Regardless, it gets me to thinking about Muhammad's (pbuh) childhood. What was it like? What did his parents impart to him? What games did he like to play? What was his first job? He was human, after all, and it's interesting for me to think of these things on a human level.

One moral the story clearly illustrates is the hazardous nature of jealousy, especially within the family. But the horrible, premeditated actions of Joseph's (pbuh) brothers are just pure evil! To throw your brother down a well and leave him to die, then lie to your father about it!?! They even go through the effort of putting false blood on Joseph's (pbuh) clothes to corroborate their story. (These are like Disney character bad guys, their evil seemingly too complete and obvious to be real.) But their father Jacob (pbuh) is too wise and too keen. Somehow, he finds "patience" within himself to discover the truth eventually.

I'm inspired by verses 19-20. A group of travellers find a boy at the bottom of a well and sell him for pennies, not knowing that this boy was worth more than the fortune of an entire kingdom. He can read dreams! But the true value of a man is not always easily seen. It reminds me of another man of immeasurable value whose life was sold for 30 pieces of silver. Note to self: never try to put a price on a human being. Even the lowliest of us is worth more than all the wealth that ever was.

Many of Joseph's (pbuh) experiences resonate in modern times. Instead of violating his moral principles and giving in to a woman's lust (what a problem to have!

), he opts to go to prison instead. And there he stayed for years, despite his display to the prisoners of his power to interpret dreams. Echoes of Ghandi, Mandella, MLK, Solzhenitsyn, and many others come to mind. It's good to see that both the prisoner and the lusty wife redeem themselves in the end. After gaining his position of power, Joseph (pbuh) could have sought retribution, but he didn't. Like Noah (pbuh) and others, he forgave those who wronged him and left it to a higher power to be the final arbiter.

Joseph (pbuh) even finds room in his heart to forgive his brothers, who had treated him so horribly...but not before he taught them a little lesson in humility ;D. It was a sort of convoluted plot to get his family together, but things worked out well in the end. Jacob's (pbuh) faith and patience paid off, and he was rewarded by finally reuniting with his long lost son. I love happy endings!

As a post-script, I note that there is no reference in this Surah to People of the Book, unlike most previous Surahs. The adversary here is not Christians or Jews, but the polytheistic Egyptians. So the primary distinction drawn by the author is Monotheism vs Polytheism. This makes sense because the story is drawn from much older writings, some translation of the Pentateuch (Genisis, Exedous, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy).

I am reminded yet again that Jews, Christians, and Muslims share much more in common than many would like to admit. They come from the same lands, the same culture, the same blood. And Civil Wars are always the most brutal, the most bloody. Can these ancient brothers ever acheive peace, despite their non-essential differences? One can only hope.

--Dan Edge
Reply

Eric H
01-22-2019, 03:31 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Dan

I am reminded yet again that Jews, Christians, and Muslims share much more in common than many would like to admit. They come from the same lands, the same culture, the same blood.
And we are all created by the same God; and the same God hears all our prayers.

After gaining his position of power, Joseph (pbuh) could have sought retribution, but he didn't. Like Noah (pbuh) and others, he forgave those who wronged him and left it to a higher power to be the final arbiter.
If you see great moral qualities in Noah and Joseph, pbut, ( peace be upon them) that is because they reflect the qualities of Allah. As part of your reading study the 99 names of Allah, we should also strive to be the same.

Blessings
Eric
Reply

Insaanah
01-27-2019, 08:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
post-script, I note that there is no reference in this Surah to People of the Book, unlike most previous Surahs.
Greetings Dan,
That’s because the Books were revealed after Joseph’s (peace be upon him) time. This is one of the Surahs in the Quran in which a true story is told, and apart from the introductory 3 verses and the concluding few verses, all of it is the story.
Generally, you’ll find the Makkan Surahs (ie those revealed at Makkah before migration to Madinah), of which this is one, mention polytheists and pagans more, while the Madinan Surahs, revealed after migration to Madinah, where there were larger communities of Jews and Christians, tend to mention people of the book.
Peace
Reply

SintoDinto
01-27-2019, 09:33 PM
@DanEdge i suggest reading surat al kahf (the cave) (chapter 18) I Highly recommend it, it is a check against the materialism of our times, and contains rational proofs and wisdom as you said in the post about surat hud. and is said to be a protection against the Muslim antichrist known as Mesih-ad-dajjal. The first ten and in other versions last ten verses when memorized are especially useful for protection against his fitnah (corruption, trial), but anyway, im rambling. the story contains many stories that are useful in our times. feel free to ask questions because they contain eschatological material at the end.
Reply

DanEdge
02-01-2019, 12:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto
@DanEdge i suggest reading surat al kahf (the cave) (chapter 18)...
I will get there, my friend. One Surah at a time.
Reply

DanEdge
02-07-2019, 01:16 PM
​Analysis of Surah Ar-Ra'd

This Surah was a very interesting read for my hungry mind. While it appears to be written in the same style throughout (i.e., same author), I noted two distinct parts.

The first part, verses 1 - 17, was of particular interest to me because it displays scientific and logical thinking on the part of the author. In previous Surahs, the wonders of nature are presented as proof of the existence of the one God (swt). But in Surah Ar-Ra'd, we are given more details about the author's understanding of natural phenomena.

The best example of this comes from verse 17. The author displays acute understanding of how ores (iron, flint, etc.) are deposited in valleys by the flow of water. He specifies that these materials are used to build utensils and other tools.

The second part of this Surah seems to be an argument from authority flowing from the first part. The author has proven in the first part that he is wise, and he argues that his wisdom is the results of following a long line of Prophets (pbuta) who followed the one God (swt).

Overall, I was impressed by the quality and seemingly high level of education of the author of this Surah. Not only is he familiar with the scripture of People of the Book, he seems also to be familiar with other predominant religions of that era and of previous eras.

In verse 5, there is a reference to those who believe in reincarnation. Though there are many religions that believe in this, the largest and the closest geographically in the era that this was written was Hinduism. So I wonder if the author is referring specifically to Hinduism, or if not, to what specific religion or set of religions?

This may be over-reaching, but as I was reading this I got the strong impression that the author was familiar with ancient Greek writings. For one, the title of the Surah means “thunder,” and the phenomenon of lightning is presented as evidence of God's (swt) power. As we know, the greatest god in ancient Greek mythology was Zeus oh, the god of lightning.

Also, the polemical nature of the second part of the Surah reminds me very much of Plato's writing: When person ‘A’ says this, then person ‘B’ ought to to reply with such and such logical argument. There is a lot of this kind of polemics in the second half of this Surah.

I am reminded that my Muslim friends have told me how the Quran is compatible with science. That sentiment very much holds true for this Surah because, while it makes references to natural phenomena and make some explanations for them, it stresses that man cannot fully understand it. That is the reason why Allah (swt) explains things in parables (verse 17).

A final note: the pronoun usage in this Surah was confusing to me. For the most part, it reads like a letter from Allah (swt) to Muhammad (pbuh). So sometimes the Surah is written in the first-person. But then at other times, it switches to third person, eg, “He has revealed 'x’.” Yet other times, it switches to first person plural, eg, “We have revealed 'x’.” I don't know if this was intentional or just a matter of translation. It doesn't make the Surah hard to follow, but it was still very strange from a grammatical perspective.

As usual, I appreciate any feedback and references for further learning.

Dan Edge
Reply

Insaanah
02-07-2019, 02:54 PM
A final note: the pronoun usage in this Surah was confusing to me. For the most part, it reads like a letter from Allah (swt) to Muhammad (pbuh). So sometimes the Surah is written in the first-person. But then at other times, it switches to third person, eg, “He has revealed 'x’.” Yet other times, it switches to first person plural, eg, “We have revealed 'x’.” I don't know if this was intentional or just a matter of translation. It doesn't make the Surah hard to follow, but it was still very strange from a grammatical perspective.
Greetings Dan,

See this:

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/2090...aculous-nature

And Allah knows best.

Peace
Reply

DanEdge
02-07-2019, 03:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
Greetings Dan,

See this:

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/2090...aculous-nature

And Allah knows best.

Peace
I love how you guys give me such excellent answers to my questions. [emoji16] From the link provided:

"Praise be to Allah.

The Qur’an was revealed in a plain Arabic tongue; one aspect of the literary style of the Arabs is that the speaker may refer to himself sometimes in the first person, sometimes in the third person, sometimes in the singular and sometimes in the plural. This variation is part of eloquence and good style."

So it's really a simple matter of language and style. Thank you very much Insaanah for this feedback.

Dan Edge
Reply

loneseeker
02-07-2019, 06:14 PM
Hi Dan,

Sorry, I would like to thank you for this fascinating thread.
Reminds me of my younger teenage ( 30years ago ) when I started questioning my faith.
I started it as atheist and tried to grab any knowledge I could get with limited resources ( reading Qur'an translation, Bible, any books I could find )

Until when I was 23 ( 15yr ago.. ) I decided to accept Islam after being "blasted" by surah Al-Ikhlas which clearly defines the God that I was searching for.

Again, thank you and may Allah The Most Merciful shows you and all of us the right path.
Reply

DanEdge
02-07-2019, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by loneseeker
Hi Dan,

Sorry, I would like to thank you for this fascinating thread.
Reminds me of my younger teenage ( 30years ago ) when I started questioning my faith.
I started it as atheist and tried to grab any knowledge I could get with limited resources ( reading Qur'an translation, Bible, any books I could find )

Until when I was 23 ( 15yr ago.. ) I decided to accept Islam after being "blasted" by surah Al-Ikhlas which clearly defines the God that I was searching for.

Again, thank you and may Allah The Most Merciful shows you and all of us the right path.
Thank you very much for your kind words. I have enjoyed participating in Islamic Board over the years, and it has inspired an ongoing process of cultural enlightenment in my life.

Since joining IB, I have correspondent with new friends all over the world. I have also connected with my local Muslim community, met with a local imam, and attended outreach events at the Islamic Society of Greenville, where I live.

it's been a wonderful experience, and I have all of you to thank for it.

Sincerely,

Dan Edge
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 03:28 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-28-2009, 03:35 PM
  3. Replies: 173
    Last Post: 04-26-2006, 03:36 AM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!