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abo mussaab
01-01-2016, 10:19 PM
We often hear daies saying "Islam tells us to obey the law of the land". I ask them where in the Quran and sunnah does it say that we should obey the law of the land in a kafir country?

They usually quote:

"O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result." [Quran 4:59]

When Allah says "Those in authority amongst you", who is "you"? This verse clearly starts with "O you who have believed", the "you" refers to the believers, not the kuffar. It then tells us if we disagree, to refer it to Allah and the Messenger (ﷺ), meaning the Quran and sunnah, not to refer back to man-made legislation.

In contrast to what they say, Allah tells us:

"O you who have believed, if you obey those who disbelieve, they will turn you back on your heels, and you will [then] become losers." [Quran 3:149]

In particular, it is completely haram for us to obey anyone, even our Muslim leaders, in anything which differs from what Allah and His Messenger (ﷺ) brought:

"There is no obedience to a created being if it is disobedience to Allah the Exalted." [Musnad Ahmad (Authentic/Sahih)]

We can see in fact that if we take a man as our legislator and regard it as the law to be obeyed, then we are worshipping that man. This was explained after Allah revealed the ayat:

"They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him." [Quran 9:31]

One of the sahaba, Adi bin Hatim, who was a Christian (before becoming Muslim), went to the Prophet (ﷺ) and when he heard this ayat, he said "They did not worship them". The Prophet (ﷺ) replied:

"Yes they did. They (the rabbis and monks) prohibited the allowed for them (Christians and Jews) and allowed the prohibited, and they obeyed them. This is how they worshipped them." [Tafsir ibn Kathir]
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M.I.A.
01-01-2016, 11:10 PM
Which land do you presently consider to be a country under Muslim rule and adhering to sharia?

And if you go to work for a corrupt man in a Muslim nation what does it matter?

...how about if you work for a Muslim in a "kafir" nation?

But yes opposing everything is not a bad viewpoint, transgression is.
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ardianto
01-02-2016, 03:15 AM
I learn Islam since I was kid until now, but I never heard that Islam says we are obligated to obey the law of the land. However, as Muslims we must have good manner and etiquette. And one of the ethic is, if we stay in a land we must respect the law of the land. In example. Now we are in the land of IB, and we have to respect the law of IB through not violate the IB rules although these rules are man made rules.

Yeah, bro, there is no prohibition in Islam to have multiple accounts in a forum. The prohibition to have multiple accounts is clearly man made law. Then, if this is man made law, should we violate it through having multiple accounts?. Of course not.

The rule to stop your car when the traffic light turn red is man made law too. Then if you stop your car when the traffic light turn red, does it mean you disobey Allah's law?. Of course not. Not every law that made by human is against Allah's law.

I know that you actually talk about democracy. Okay, I can understand if you don't want to vote. But I hope you can have attitude like Hizbut Tahrir and Salafi in Indonesia. They do not participate in election, but they still respect other Muslims who choose to participate in election. I appreciate their attitude.

Open your mind, bro, and try to see something through wider perspective. Okay? :)
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InToTheRain
01-02-2016, 07:55 PM
Mohammad(SAW) refused to keep a Sahabah in Madina because he made a treaty with the Mushriks of Mecca that he would return the reverts from Mecca back to them if they insisted (where they were persecuted). So when the Mushrik leaders came to take him back, Mohammad(SAW) handed him over; however on the way he killed the people that came to get him and returned to Mohammad(SAW) but Mohammad(SAW) refused to keep him in Madina saying he was a Warmonger; Had Mohammad(SAW) wanted he could have hid him in Madina without the Meccan leaders being aware!

So tell me, are you accusing Mohammad(SAW) of obeying Man made legislations above Allah Most High?

If you study the Seerat of the Mohamamd(SAW) you will know that before him mission commenced an incident occurred where the hajar Aswad dropped. The leaders of Mecca then began to argue over who should have the honor of putting The Stone back in place. They then agreed whoever enters from a certain entrance they will decide who picks it up... it was none other than Mohammad(SAW) who entered. What did they all say? Everyone said, "Here comes Al-Ameen (The Trustworthy)" and the joyous voice echoed through the place over and over again. We will accept his verdict! For indeed he was known to everyone as Al-Amin, the trustworthy! They didn't say "here comes the warmonger who speaks against us and slanders us for commiting shirk"!

Allah Most High does not choose as guides those who have hatred for the nation/s he has been chosen to guide! Even Allah Most High says they would have fled from around him had he been harsh.

Mohammad(SAW) himself once said in a hadith he went to a meeting held because of the abuse of pilgrims by some of the leaders of Mecca. He said had the same meeting being held again (my mushriks in order to stop the abuse of the weak) he would still participate in it.

Point I am making is Mohammad(SAW) was always loved by his people and this was only because of his love for them; Mohammad(SAW) hated their practice but not them.


Tawheed is determined by our reliance on Allah Most High in all matters; we can only do to the best of our ability and leave the rest to Allah Most High. The way of the extremists Khawarijites/Isis/Daesh have nothing to do with Tawheed; they think Allah Most High relies on them to make Islam proesper!

Also I would advise you to refrain from using Ayats of Quran used to describe the practice of Mushriks on Muslims as this is a common practice amongst Khawarijites. They say what is true but intend to mislead Muslims by it:

Ubaidullah ibn Abu Rafi reported: The Kharijites came out against Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, and they said:

لَا حُكْمَ إِلَّا لِلَّهِ

There is no rule but for Allah. (12:40)

Ali said:

كَلِمَةُ حَقٍّ أُرِيدَ بِهَا بَاطِلٌ

A word of truth by which is intended falsehood.

Source: Sahih Muslim 1066, Grade: Sahih
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-02-2016, 09:20 PM
stop taking quranic ayaat without tafseer and interpreting them


provide the tafsir of the great mufassirs and how they understood and implemented this ayaats
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