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abo mussaab
02-26-2016, 01:54 PM
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ReboundMuslimah
02-27-2016, 12:31 AM
Wait is this the guy that was on the 'Jihadist Next Door? I wouldn't listen to anything this guy says and I have no respect for him what's so ever after seeing that documentary.
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czgibson
02-27-2016, 01:09 AM
Greetings,

Why anybody thinks this ranting moron shouting his head off on a street corner is going to convince anybody of anything is utterly beyond me. He's clearly semi-educated, has no idea how to present a rational argument and keeps repeating himself as if his brain is stuck. How can you possibly take such a person seriously?

His claim that the Pope has legalised same-sex marriage is completely bizarre. The Pope has consistently opposed same-sex marriage, in accordance with Catholic doctrine. Plus, his civil legal authority extends only over Vatican City, and this power is delegated to a governor in any case.

The Pope and other Catholics are not going to change their beliefs just because this guy issues threats and quotes Islamic scripture at them. This seems to be a pretty common Islamic debating approach, and it's extraordinary that anyone thinks it's worth pursuing.

Peace
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02-27-2016, 02:29 AM
:bism:

:sl:

I'd also watched the Jihadist Next Door documentary on YouTube, since as an American, I do not have access to Channel 4 Documentary on their site. I had been nearly chilled. I am grateful that my introduction to Islam had not been with learning the existence of such persons or their ideological stances, otherwise I would not have been as inclined towards Islam from my former atheism/agnosticism.

The Pope, as far as I have seen, has shown himself to be a kindhearted person with a sense of humor. In regards to the specifics, like @czgibson has said above, the Pope has not endorsed same-sex marriage. He's simply refused to judge and condemn in an unbecoming manner that is not befitting of righteous persons or a righteous community, and I quote his words: “Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person? We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being. In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy.”

As Muslims, and rightly so, we do not like the media or anyone misrepresenting us or our positions, and I'd say the same courtesy and kindness should be given and applied uniformly to everyone. Here, the Pope's position on same-sex marriage has either been misconstrued or misrepresented, and neither is a just outcome.

@czgibson, I disagree as to last paragraph, because I have heard/read of revert stories wherein Catholics have been curious or explored Islam after either hearing or reading Islamic scripture quoted to them. That said, I do not think conventional wisdom dictates debating with another person of any faith or no faith to get him/her to change his position, because debating is said to be spiritually harmful and should ideally not be undertaken in most circumstances.

Most importantly, if we're honest with ourselves, we'll see that no one likes being challenged on something and so I think when two debaters usually enter into an arena, the goal is to win and not to learn or concede pivotal positions that can tip the balance of the debate in another's favor. So, I think the idea of engaging in debate to understand is actually a deficient means of seeking knowledge and is not a productive towards true comprehension as ego on both sides usually clouds both persons' judgment.

:wa:
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02-27-2016, 03:03 AM
:bism:

Originally Posted by czgibson
The Pope and other Catholics are not going to change their beliefs just because this guy issues threats and quotes Islamic scripture at them.
I wanted to clarify and say that I completely agree with you in regards to this line. I myself had a Muslim friend in college who used to be extremely judgmental towards me, and that had not inclined me towards Islam. In fact, to be honest, I was very put off and now wonder why she even became my friend. I came to Islam because I studied Islam on my own, and people telling me I would go to Hell would not ever have inclined me towards Islam. In fact, one Muslim lady did give me a description of Hell, perhaps to scare me into becoming Muslim. I remained an atheist/agnostic.

What I will say to people who want others to incline towards Islam is that you put your best foot forward, and please do not talk about hell as if you can know who is going to hell or not. Trying to make others conform to who you want them to be is a recipe for disaster. Please accept people for who they are and show the mercy of Islam, the kind of Islam that moves people's hearts. You might or might not succeed even then, but at least you'll give yourself a chance of giving the message and leaving the matter into the hands of Allah (God).
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