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Krsto
03-04-2016, 07:19 PM
While browsing through higher ed job postings I've noticed many Christian and secular colleges and seminaries teach courses in Islamic studies. They also teach Old Testament studies at Christian colleges and seminaries even though Christians believe the New Testament abrogates the Old Testament. Studies in Jewish theology are considered at least instructive, and as Paul said to Timothy, the Old Testament scriptures make one "wise unto salvation." I have yet to find a course in New Testament studies at a Muslim madrasa or liberal arts college. I find this peculiar since Jesus is well-regarded as one of the prophets of Islam. Are there not Muslim colleges that teach New Testament studies or is Google just not getting me there? Also, after conversations with my local imam who was educated at the famous school in Cairo it became apparent he knew very little about his prophet Jesus, much less than I know about Moses and Judaism of Jesus' time. Wouldn't it serve the Muslim community to learn more about this prophet you regard so highly, or do you not actually have that much respect for him and don't see any value in learning more about him?
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Serinity
03-04-2016, 08:44 PM
Idk much about The Prophet Isa AS childhood etc. But we do follow his teachings. By following the Prophet Muhammad SAW, we automatically follow all the Prophets AS. :) If Isa, or otherwise called Jesus AS, was here, he'd be the follower of the Prophet Muhammad SAW. :)

Would be interesting to know about his life tho.. But I doubt the sources of the christians.

May Allah forgive me if I erred. Ameen.

And Allah knows best.
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Krsto
03-04-2016, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Idk much about The Prophet Isa AS childhood etc. But we do follow his teachings. By following the Prophet Muhammad SAW, we automatically follow all the Prophets AS. :) If Isa, or otherwise called Jesus AS, was here, he'd be the follower of the Prophet Muhammad SAW. :)

Would be interesting to know about his life tho.. But I doubt the sources of the christians.

May Allah forgive me if I erred. Ameen.

And Allah knows best.
So I take it that all you know of Jesus is the very limited text that is revealed in your own literature and you have never heard one of the 4 Gospels quoted in your mosque?
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Abz2000
03-04-2016, 09:13 PM
There are a few who go through and compare accounts in previous scripture and Quran+hadith, one is called bayyinah institute and you can listen to some of their lectures by typing Nouman Ali Khan tafseer. (Or nak tafsir)
When it comes to strength of authenticity, the Quran comes first without dispute - and this can be confirmed as a rational approach by making a scientific study of the facts and errors in scriptures in comparison. We neither accept as 100% certain, nor reject as 100% false anything that is not specifically corroborated by the Quran unless an undeniable evidence is presented to prove or disprove a statement, but some of us do read and study if we have the time in order to increase our horizons.

You might have to scroll forward in order to pass the intro screen, it is very detailed and there's a q&a including answers to some of your questions at the end:

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Serinity
03-04-2016, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Krsto
So I take it that all you know of Jesus is the very limited text that is revealed in your own literature and you have never heard one of the 4 Gospels quoted in your mosque?
I had very little exposure to Jesus AS's life when I was little. I knew more about Musa AS than Jesus AS... And reflecting back, much about what I heard of Jesus AS, was christian influenced. So I disregarded what I've learnt of Jesus that contradicted Islam. Islam sounded much more logical to me.

I always thought of Jesus AS as a Prophet AS anyway lol. A human like me and you, although with a higher rank in front of Allah.

I've never heard the 4 gospels quoted in any mosque I was in. :) Well, if there are reliable sources to Jesus AS's life, then I'd find it interesting to have a read.

I am sceptical when it comes to sources tho. lol.
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Abz2000
03-04-2016, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by Krsto
So I take it that all you know of Jesus is the very limited text that is revealed in your own literature and you have never heard one of the 4 Gospels quoted in your mosque?
Scroll to 17 min 40 sec:




And 10 min 20 sec here:

http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=464_1368563062
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Zafran
03-05-2016, 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Krsto
While browsing through higher ed job postings I've noticed many Christian and secular colleges and seminaries teach courses in Islamic studies. They also teach Old Testament studies at Christian colleges and seminaries even though Christians believe the New Testament abrogates the Old Testament. Studies in Jewish theology are considered at least instructive, and as Paul said to Timothy, the Old Testament scriptures make one "wise unto salvation." I have yet to find a course in New Testament studies at a Muslim madrasa or liberal arts college. I find this peculiar since Jesus is well-regarded as one of the prophets of Islam. Are there not Muslim colleges that teach New Testament studies or is Google just not getting me there? Also, after conversations with my local imam who was educated at the famous school in Cairo it became apparent he knew very little about his prophet Jesus, much less than I know about Moses and Judaism of Jesus' time. Wouldn't it serve the Muslim community to learn more about this prophet you regard so highly, or do you not actually have that much respect for him and don't see any value in learning more about him?
No Muslims dont regard the christian narrative and Pauls writings as canon. The same with the OT - Knowing the christian narrative doesn't make it synonymous with Jesus pbuh life. Same with the life Moses pbuh and the OT. As said before we dont reject or accept the stories in these books 100% due to the nature of the NT and OT. Unless the Quran rectifies it.

For example Muslims believe that Jesus pbuh talked when he was a baby - you cant find that in the 4 gospels but you do find it in the Infancy gospel which most traditional Christians dont accept.
Muslims dont believe in the death of Christ (possibly the most important act in Christianity) etc.
The many stories of David and Solomon, Lot and Abraham pbuh.

hope that helps.
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Insaanah
03-05-2016, 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by Krsto
he knew very little about his prophet Jesus, much less than I know about Moses and Judaism of Jesus' time. Wouldn't it serve the Muslim community to learn more about this prophet you regard so highly, or do you not actually have that much respect for him and don't see any value in learning more about him?
When we have God's word, 100% preserved, we have no need to look elsewhere. The Qur'an tells us all the main points about Jesus (peace be on him), succinctly:

It tells us of his miraculous birth of the noble virgin Mary (peace be on her) without any male intervention.
It tells us he was a messenger from God sent to the Children of Israel.
It tells us the message he preached, the same message that all his brothers in prophethood before him preached, and the same message the last Prophet after him came to finalise and spread to the world.
It tells us, that he did not claim divinity, was not the son of God, was not part of a trinity, and did not tell people to worship him.
It tells us that prayer and alms giving were enjoined on him.
It tells us that he was kind and dutiful to his mother Mary, and not insolent and arrogant.
It tells us that God gave him a scripture called the Injeel, which was a guidance and a light.
It tells us he confirmed what was originally in the Torah that came before, and gave glad tidings of a messenger to come after him.
It tells us that he was able to talk in babyhood, perform miracles, shape birds from clay and breathe into them and they became alive, he gave life to the dead, and healed the blind and lepers, all with God's permission.
It tells us he was the messiah.
It tells us that he was not killed or crucified, but taken up from this earth by God.

As Muslims, we feel very close to, and love, honour, and respect Jesus (peace be on him), as he was, one of the noblest and purest of humanity to ever set foot on this earth, one of mightiest messengers of God, sent to the Children of Israel. We neither reject him like the Jews, nor at the other end deify him like the Christians, but the correct, middle, balanced, just, true course.

A quote from a respected former Christian member of this forum:

During our Christian years we loved and worshiped an idealistic man-made concept. After we came to Islam we learned to truly love Jesus(as) and not what we were told was Jesus(as). When I was Christian I thought I loved Jesus(as), but after coming to Islam I came to truly Love Jesus(as)."
as = peace be on him, in Arabic.

Peace.
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Sojourn
03-06-2016, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
When we have God's word, 100% preserved, we have no need to look elsewhere. The Qur'an tells us all the main points about Jesus (peace be on him), succinctly:
Hi Insaanah,

I just want to mention as a text's preservation doesn't say anything about how exhaustive the information it provides about a given subject. As a non-Muslim who has read an English translation of the Quran I can say that the information about Jesus is very limited and that I would personally find it understandable if someone wanted to learn more about Jesus by turning to the texts about him. Keep in a mind a Muslim can do this without believing the Bible is inspired in anyway.
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Insaanah
03-06-2016, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by Sojourn
I just want to mention as a text's preservation doesn't say anything about how exhaustive the information it provides about a given subject. As a non-Muslim who has read an English translation of the Quran I can say that the information about Jesus is very limited
Hi Sojourn,

Just remember that the Qur'an is not a book about the life story of Jesus (peace be on him), nor does it claim to be. Therefore, a non-Muslim expecting to find exhaustive coverage of the life of Jesus in the Qur'an, first needs to understand what the Qur'an is, and it's purpose. What is told, is what is deemed to be most important for us to know, and is not accounts by Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, et al, but Jesus' Creator Himself, and thus is the truth. The succinct truth outweighs extensive coverage that cannot for sure be said to be truth as a whole. While a few Muslims may read the Bible for interest (knowing it may not be true), it is not because of a need to find important information missing from the Qur'an. We feel love and honour for Jesus based on what has been succinctly told to us by Allah.

Peace.
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Sojourn
03-06-2016, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Hi Sojourn,

Just remember that the Qur'an is not a book about the life story of Jesus (peace be on him), nor does it claim to be. Therefore, a non-Muslim expecting to find exhaustive coverage of the life of Jesus in the Qur'an, first needs to understand what the Qur'an is, and it's purpose. What is told, is what is deemed to be most important for us to know, and is not accounts by Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, et al, but Jesus' Creator Himself, and thus is the truth. The succinct truth outweighs extensive coverage that cannot for sure be said to be truth as a whole. While a few Muslims may read the Bible for interest (knowing it may not be true), it is not because of a need to find important information missing from the Qur'an. We feel love and honour for Jesus based on what has been succinctly told to us by Allah.

Peace.
Yes, exactly, and this is why Christians and Jews read messages of all prophets and not just the most recent revelation. I don't understand the Muslim jurists concern in having other Muslims reading past revelations even if they believe there are concerns with a texts integrity. From an outsider's perspective it seems like trying to protect Muslims from information that might change their way of thinking.
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M.I.A.
03-06-2016, 07:10 PM
...the pope says trump is bad.

Visits Mexicans.

...no opinion about Muslims other than..an if ISIS kills me statement.

Comparative religion is risky business.

Trump or pope could change the world.. Or lose votes.
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Futuwwa
03-06-2016, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Krsto
So I take it that all you know of Jesus is the very limited text that is revealed in your own literature and you have never heard one of the 4 Gospels quoted in your mosque?
Loaded question is loaded.
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Krsto
03-21-2016, 05:09 PM
Thanks all for your replies. Many of you said the Gospels are not reliable, while the Quran is reliable. I would say much the same, only put it this way, that the Quran is more reliable than the Gospels. That said, unless you are all Quranists who don't take much stock in the Hadith you all look to the Hadith as scripture, draw your Sharia from it, even though it's less reliable than the Gospels. Seems to me if you are willing to use Hadith to inform your faith you would also use the Gospels to learn about your prophet Jesus, just like Christians use the Old Test. to learn about Moses, even though Jesus has abrogated the Torah. This is why it's puzzling that madrassah do not have courses in the Gospels, but go to great lengths to understand the Hadith.
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Krsto
03-21-2016, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Loaded question is loaded.
Definitely.
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Krsto
03-21-2016, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
When we have God's word, 100% preserved, we have no need to look elsewhere. The Qur'an tells us all the main points about Jesus (peace be on him), succinctly:

It tells us of his miraculous birth of the noble virgin Mary (peace be on her) without any male intervention.
It tells us he was a messenger from God sent to the Children of Israel.
It tells us the message he preached, the same message that all his brothers in prophethood before him preached, and the same message the last Prophet after him came to finalise and spread to the world.
It tells us, that he did not claim divinity, was not the son of God, was not part of a trinity, and did not tell people to worship him.
It tells us that prayer and alms giving were enjoined on him.
It tells us that he was kind and dutiful to his mother Mary, and not insolent and arrogant.
It tells us that God gave him a scripture called the Injeel, which was a guidance and a light.
It tells us he confirmed what was originally in the Torah that came before, and gave glad tidings of a messenger to come after him.
It tells us that he was able to talk in babyhood, perform miracles, shape birds from clay and breathe into them and they became alive, he gave life to the dead, and healed the blind and lepers, all with God's permission.
It tells us he was the messiah.
It tells us that he was not killed or crucified, but taken up from this earth by God.

As Muslims, we feel very close to, and love, honour, and respect Jesus (peace be on him), as he was, one of the noblest and purest of humanity to ever set foot on this earth, one of mightiest messengers of God, sent to the Children of Israel. We neither reject him like the Jews, nor at the other end deify him like the Christians, but the correct, middle, balanced, just, true course.

A quote from a respected former Christian member of this forum:



as = peace be on him, in Arabic.

Peace.
You might be surprised to know that many of us Christians agree with this: "It tells us, that he did not claim divinity, was not the son of God, was not part of a trinity, and did not tell people to worship him," and we believe the rest of the New Testament confirms this. The Trinity doctrine was definitely developed long after the apostles died. I might also note that we believe Jesus is the Son of God, but that doesn't mean what the Trinitarians have made it to mean. When he denied being God he affirmed being the son of god (theos) which was less of a claim than God calling the Judges god (theos). I believe he got his start in existence in the womb of Mary and did not exist for one second before that, other than a plan in God's mind (that's the meaning of the Greek word logos in Jn. 1:1). BTW, can you give me the verse number for "It tells us that God gave him a scripture called the Injeel, which was a guidance and a light."

Thanks Sister.
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