Question on Mortgages & Purchasing property

[Bhabha]

Salam,

Ok, so my parents have asked me to put down my credit for the purchase of a condo. Mind you the monthly fees for the mortgage is the same as rent. I have really good credit, and so the bank would be able to loan me in order to purchase the condo, but it is my parents who would be paying the mortgage. The only thing I would put on the line is my financial credibility, whilst the actual payments would be made by my parents (who are not Muslim b.t.w) so for them our concept of riba is different.

The whole issue with the condo purchase is that while we are living in North America (where we thought our current stay was temporary), we have been renting. We looked into purchasing property, whose payment would be the SAME if not smaller than our current rent and so this happened. My mother prefers to actually pay a "rent" to purchase the home through a mortgage, rather than pay rent and never really own a property, thereby letting the money itself go to waste.

The question as such is, if you are able to purchase the home, rather than rent it, for the same price as would be a 'rental' price, is it not better to rent, rather than to avoid paying "riba" on the purchase of a home through a mortgage? considering the money paid for rent is actually, and literally wasted, while the one for a purchase is accumulated?

Thanks

[Misbah0411]

You absolutely do not want to pay interest on a loan of any kind be it car, education or home. My wife makes suggestions that it would be better to buy a home and I tell her it isn't going to happen. The Prophet s.a.a.w. cursed the one dealing in interest, giving or receiving. What little you will gain in this dunya at the expense of your Hereafter for a home that is merely transitory like everything else in this world. The only remnant of that mortgage will be on the scale of evil deeds on the Day of Judgement. May Allah protect you from that. Don't forget your purpose on this earth. It is to worship Allah to the best of your ability and follow His commands. The Prophet s.a.a.w. said, "be in this world as a traveler". A traveler only takes the necessities required for the journey. Remember that. May Allah Azza wa Jal make it easy for you. Ameen.

[Bhabha]

Um the payment for rent is the exact same as payment for mortgages :/ it is the same thing. If not even worse. Do I live in the street therefore to avoid paying rent or mortgage?

[Bhabha]

Anyhow if someone who has read the actual post could provide some insight as to whether the substitution of the "rent" for the mortgage and thus the ability to own the property and gain back what was invested upon sale is permissible. Since it is the exact same as continuing the rent. Please be pragmatic, not just a "do not accumulate riba" when the monthly payment of the mortgage would be the same, if not less than the rent being paid for said property. Thanks and it would not be MY money but my parents money, only thing I provide is the financial credibility. It would also be property under my name but my parents will pay it.

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[Misbah0411]

Um the payment for rent is the exact same as payment for mortgages :/ it is the same thing. If not even worse. Do I live in the street therefore to avoid paying rent or mortgage?

You would be complicit in obtaining the mortgage by using your credit score to secure the loan and having it under your name. Just because your parents make the mortgage payment don't think for a moment that situation is permissible. You would be an accessory to the crime of riba in Islam. Secondly, home ownership is a misnomer because nobody truly owns anything of property especially when it is being mortgaged from the bank or also when you have title to the house after you paid it off since "The ultimate ownership of ALL property is in the State. Individual ownership is only by virtue of Government, amounting to mere user and that use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State." Senate Resolution Resolution 62 U.S. Congress Thirdly, if the Angels of mercy do not enter a house because of pictures therein how much so if there is a house that has a mortgage with riba involved. Fourthly, I think you just want someone to go ahead and tell to do it so you can have some peace of mind in succumbing to the whispers of the shaytan and your whims and desires. You better think what is best for you in the long run with your soul rather than saving a few bucks in this world.

[Bhabha]

My reaction to the discussion above is "WTF" does this have to do with the whispers of shaytan. The fact is that my parents are paying rent right now and will in no way receive back any money after they move out of the place to go back home. Instead they will just pack their bags and move out. The purchase of a home will actually allow them to not waste their money and save it. If the whole point of avoiding riba is not to waste money, then paying a mortgage instead of rent and then selling the property afterwards is reasonable. I didn't ask my parents to do it, I don't think you actually read my post with a logical mind and just succumbed to telling me I'm listening to whispers. When it was my parents who are asking me for my help in this so that they do not waste their hard earned money after moving out of the place. What is wrong with you? Your post made no sense lol and I do not even live in the United States, why bother to quote the resolution of the us congress? Credit scores did not exist in the time of the prophet so be pragmatic in your answers.

How different are rent payments where you will NEVER GET YOUR MONEY BACK to mortgage payments where if you sell your house you can receive that money back? Do angels enter a house where people are making useless payments of money? What bidah is it to state that they will not enter a house that is being bought through mortgage payments?

OMG moderators please block and delete this post. I see people don't even bother to read this thread at all and do not think at all.

[Bhabha]

Also FYI if you pay a rent to someone, most likely you ARE DE FACTO paying their mortgage and with the rent increases to accommodate the inflation rates are DE FACTO paying their interest in the mortgage that they have taken out and have replaced with dumb people's rental.

[~ Sabr ~]

I thought you knew everything about Islam? Why are you asking then?

[abumuslim82]

I thought you knew everything about Islam? Why are you asking then?

I think u think u know everything. Please stop pm me ur silly comments. If u want attention u can ask nicely we'll give u sum attention

[~ Sabr ~]

@abumuslim82 You are so childish. Blocked, Alhamdulillah, good riddance.

[ajr]

Is it not amazing that a Muslim will never eat pork because it is haram (unlawful); never marry his mother or sister because it is also haram, yet that same person has no problem devouring riba (e.g. interest, usury)? Did you know that engaging in riba is a major sin which could lead you to Hell?
...but whoever returns (to dealing in riba), such are the dwellers of the Fire they will abide therein.Quran 2:275 If dealing in riba is so punishable, why do many Muslims fall into this sin and take the issue so lightly?
The Meaning of Riba
Riba is an Arabic noun derived from the verb Raba, meaning to increase, to grow, and to exceed. It includes interest which is paid by banks or on loans such as car loans, home loans or credit card debt.
Proof that Riba is Haram
There are many proofs showing that riba is haram and one of the most serious sins in Islam!
For those with true faith in Allah and the Quran, this clear verse prohibiting riba is sufficient:
Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden riba.Quran 2:275 In the Quran, Allah does not declare war on anyone except those who deal in riba:
O you who believe, fear Allah and give up what remains of your demand for riba, if you are indeed believers. If you do it not, take notice of war from Allah and His Messenger.Quran 2:278-279 Would you like Allah, The Almighty, to wage war against you after He has made it abundantly clear that riba is haram?
The Prophet (peace be upon him) warned that consuming riba is one of the seven sins that doom a person to Hell. (Bukhari and Muslim)
Riba is haram in all of its aspects, as the Prophet (peace be upon him) said (Muslim), Allah has cursed the one who consumes riba, the one who gives it, the one who witnesses over it, and the one who writes down the transaction.
Do not be of those whom Allah has cursed!
Why is Riba Haram?
The first and foremost reason riba is haram is because Allah declared it so. It is based on Allahs infinite wisdom that He deems an action to be obligatory or prohibited, prescribing matters in mans best interests, in this life and in the Hereafter, as He is the All-Wise, All-Knowing. The scholars of Islam have suggested the following reasons as to why riba is haram:
Whole nations, dozens of them, large and small, have foreign debts so large that their riba payments on these debts are a crushing burden on the entire country. Debt kills. Some 11 million children die each year around the world due to conditions of poverty and debt. Former President Obasanjo, commented on the debt Nigeria faces:
All that we had borrowed up to 1985 or 1986 was around $5 billion and we have paid about $16 billion yet we are still being told that we owe about $28 billion. That $28 billion came about because of the injustice in the foreign creditors (lenders) interest rates.
If you ask me what is the worst thing in the world, I will say it is compound interest.
Riba conflicts with the spirit of brotherhood and sympathy, and is based on greed, selfishness and hard heartedness.
Riba is one of the major contributors towards inflation.
Riba causes trauma and depression due to mounting debts.
Riba is a sure gain without any possibility of loss, hence all the risk is taken by the borrower, rather than sharing the risk and the profits with both parties.
Riba creates a monopoly in society, where the rich are rewarded for being wealthy, while those who are not are forced to pay extra!
There is a common misconception amongst Muslims with regards to buying a first house using riba. Some claim that it is permissible, a necessity. The fact that one can easily rent a house instead of buying, disproves this claim. If the theory were true, would that then mean that drinking the first bottle of alcohol is permissible, even though water is available? Or eating pork when there is a permissible substitute? While it may be easy to fool others into believing this, we must remember that:
... Allah knows all that you reveal and all that you conceal.Quran 5:99
Paying rent in order to support oneself and their family is not wasted money. InshaAllah, Allah the Most Appreciative, will reward this like charity: When someone spends on his family seeking his reward for it from Allah, it is counted as a charity from him. (Bukhari and Muslim)
Success in this Life & the Hereafter
When examining this issue of riba, we should remember that true success lies with the help of Allah alone. If we abide by that which is lawful, and avoid that which is haram, our wealth will be blessed and beneficial in this world and the Hereafter. What good is extra money earned through riba if there is no blessing in it, and it is cursed - a source of misery?
On the Day of Resurrection, people will rise from their graves quickly, except those who engaged in riba. They will stand up and then fall down like epileptics because:
Those who consume riba cannot stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. That is because they say, Trade is (just) like riba. But Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden riba...Quran 2:275
Such is the punishment for those who consume riba and do not sincerely repent from this great sin.
As for those who strive toward success by earning Allahs pleasure, they take comfort from the following verse:
O you who believe! Do not devour Riba (e.g. interest), making it double & redouble, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, that you may be successful.Quran 3:130
We are also shown how to be successful in the Hereafter:
The only saying of the faithful believers when they are called to Allah (His Words- the Quran) and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say: We hear and we obey. And such are the successful (who will live forever in Paradise).Quran 24:51
Conclusion
None can doubt that riba is haram and a major sin, and no disobedience to Allah is worth the risk of His punishment. We must remember that the life of this world is short and fleeting, and that the purpose of our existence is not to lust after beauty and wealth, but rather to worship Allah correctly and live by His rules. Just because riba is widespread and common, it does not make it permissible.
And whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty), and will provide him sustenance from where he never even imagined. And whosoever puts his trust in Allah, Allah is sufficient for him.Quran 65:2-3

[Bhabha]

While I understand riba is a sin, how about when you are being kicked out of the home unless you purchase the home? Then, how about on that chance that the rents around the home are 2x the price you will ever pay for the monthly payments on the mortgage? Where you will eventually like normal rental payments, you will own the home and thus not have to pay 2x the price for RENTING a home?

So let's say, monthly mortgage payments are around 760
RENTAL is around 1,500

IS it not feasible to PURCHASE the home and pay the rental price as the payment for the mortgage, since and CONSIDERING that interest and thus (riba) is still applied to the rental price that you are paying, since you are technically paying off the mortgage for someone else. Although YOU, yourself are not directly involved with the RIBA of that mortgage, you are paying through your rent the RIBA of someone else who has purchased the home and they are most likely benefiting off you paying off that rent. :)

The practicality of not going into riba, is when this 'debt' is not to your benefit. If you are paying the same + higher amount to live in a home that is being paid off either ways, as in the mortgage is being paid off either ways, does it not make more sense to purchase the home, pay these 'rentals' as the mortgage payment and fully own the home in couple of years as opposed to paying in vain the same amount and thus not only incur debt (because you will NEVER get that money back) and never own your property, for which there is no stability. It is debt when you cannot ever regain that money you have wasted, such as taking out loans for purchasing things which you will never be able to sell and thus regain their value... that is different, It is not lusting after beauty and wealth, it is ensuring the security of a family when the alternative would Incur more insecurity AND potential debt. :)

People who rent NEVER have security, because their landlord can increase the rent in order to pay off the RIBA that is being accumulated by them for the mortgage of that property, FYI. So technically, you are in essence paying off the riba on the increase of rental in order to accommodate inflation AND interest by the landlord's own mortgage payments. :)

Unless you tell me the alternative is to live in the streets and ask like a beggar for money, in order to avoid 'riba'. No offense sister, but please be pragmatic and actually read and think about the entire post. A rose by any other name smells just as sweet. Pay Rent and pay the riba of the landlord + more and incur more debt, purchase your home and pay your OWN riba + less debt because you are not being squeezed by a greedy landlord who wants to earn from his property AND pay off the mortgage he owns. In both scenarios, you are taking part in paying off the riba, it is just different, a different name, a different transaction, but both roses and crap smell the same even if they have a different name.

I'm done with the thread. please mods close it.
Thanks

[~ Sabr ~]

A rose by any other name smells just as sweet.

You are using Shakespeare for Islam.....really?!

[Bhabha]

@~Sabr ~ please stop antagonizing me. Don't post in my threads. Thank you.

[abumuslim82]

Salam,

Ok, so my parents have asked me to put down my credit for the purchase of a condo. Mind you the monthly fees for the mortgage is the same as rent. I have really good credit, and so the bank would be able to loan me in order to purchase the condo, but it is my parents who would be paying the mortgage. The only thing I would put on the line is my financial credibility, whilst the actual payments would be made by my parents (who are not Muslim b.t.w) so for them our concept of riba is different.

The whole issue with the condo purchase is that while we are living in North America (where we thought our current stay was temporary), we have been renting. We looked into purchasing property, whose payment would be the SAME if not smaller than our current rent and so this happened. My mother prefers to actually pay a "rent" to purchase the home through a mortgage, rather than pay rent and never really own a property, thereby letting the money itself go to waste.

The question as such is, if you are able to purchase the home, rather than rent it, for the same price as would be a 'rental' price, is it not better to rent, rather than to avoid paying "riba" on the purchase of a home through a mortgage? considering the money paid for rent is actually, and literally wasted, while the one for a purchase is accumulated?

Thanks

Salaam sis,

Riba is hectic. Only two times does our RABB declare war with us,

1. Those who fight HIS friends.
2. Those who are involved in riba.

My personal experience regarding riba from back in the day, instead of being a slave to our RABB, we become slaves to the bank.

[~ Sabr ~]

@~Sabr ~ please stop antagonizing me. Don't post in my threads. Thank you.

It's a free forum, I will do what I want.

[~ Sabr ~]

And don't think that you will get away with misleading other by posting incorrect information about Islam

[abumuslim82]

Which munafiq took off the saying of ummuhaatul mumineen

[Moderator]

On request of OP.

:threadclo