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eesa the kiwi
05-13-2016, 06:43 PM
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eesa the kiwi
05-14-2016, 09:10 PM
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eesa the kiwi
05-15-2016, 08:10 PM
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goodwill
05-21-2016, 03:59 AM
I listened to some of the first video but skipped toward the end where KH started talking about Jesus’ virgin birth.


Ironically, in his lengthy introduction, KH actually compared the goal of his talk to brainwashing.


KH addressed the Muslims in the audience as brothers and sisters and non-Muslims separately. Do Muslims not consider Christians brothers? In Christianity, we are all brothers and sisters, children of one heavenly Father. KH actually agreed with this later, by implication.


KH stated that, according to Arabic etymology, the name Eve (Hawa) means “feeling.” (Isn’t the word for feeling in Arabic “ahsas” or something similar?) The Bible explains why our first mother was called Eve: “And Adam called his wife's name Eve (Khawa in Hebrew); because she was the mother of all living (khay)” (Genesis 3:20).


KH quoted the Quran comparing Adam to Jesus. The Bible makes the comparison too and in fact speaks of Jesus as the second Adam. KH, however, did not explain the significance of Jesus’s virgin birth.


KH stated that Jesus had twelve disciples but KH’s list of names mistakenly included Joseph of Arimathea and Stephen the martyr. KH also gave no historical evidence to back up his assertion that none of the Twelve wrote any books of the New Testament.


KH admitted that, in the Lord’s Prayer, which is found in the New Testament, Jesus taught His disciples to address God as “Father.”


KH thought it absurd that the incarnate God should have bodily functions, but why should a system created by God be unworthy of Him? When God created the human body, did He not create it good?


KH seemed to speak as if Jesus asked forgiveness for Himself when He taught His disciples to ask for forgiveness for themselves in the Lord’s Prayer. But doesn’t the Quran affirm with the Bible that Jesus is sinless and so He would have had no sins to ask forgiveness for?


KH argued that because the Lord’s Prayer mentions the Father only, it somehow ruled out the Trinity. But that assertion is a non sequitur.


KH spoke as if the Lord’s Prayer as it stands recorded in the New Testament (Matthew 6) is the prayer that Jesus taught His disciples. But if the disciple Matthew did not write down that prayer—since KH claimed earlier that no disciple wrote any New Testament books—then who wrote that prayer down so accurately?


KH claimed that Jesus pulled His garment away angrily from a woman seeking healing. However, the Bible never says that Jesus jerked His garment away from anybody, much less that He jerked it away angrily. This incident exists in KH’s imagination but not in the Bible.


Not only that but KH has the account of what happened wrong. It was not a woman but a rich young man whom Jesus addressed when He said, “Why callest thou Me good?” This account is given not in one but in three of the Gospels (Matthew 19, Mark 10, Luke 18), yet somehow KH still got it wrong.


KH quoted the Gospels according to Matthew, Luke and John to show what those who heard Jesus in person said about Jesus. KH thus admits that the Gospels contain early, accurate, and firsthand information about Jesus. Christians agree.


Finally, KH quoted the Bible again to show that the people of Jesus’ day considered Jesus to be “that prophet” who should come into the world. The allusion is to Deuteronomy 18, which predicts that a prophet would come. Thus, KH hereby joined Christians in affirming that the prophet predicted in Deuteronomy 18 is Jesus.
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Abz2000
05-21-2016, 06:04 AM
Originally Posted by goodwill
I listened to some of the first video but skipped toward the end where KH started talking about Jesus’ virgin birth.
...

Originally Posted by goodwill
Ironically, in his lengthy introduction, KH actually compared the goal of his talk to brainwashing.
better to wash the brain and walk aright than to infect it with corruption and sin no?


Originally Posted by goodwill
KH addressed the Muslims in the audience as brothers and sisters and non-Muslims separately. Do Muslims not consider Christians brothers? In Christianity, we are all brothers and sisters, children of one heavenly Father. KH actually agreed with this later, by implication.
Muslims are a brother+sisterhood that transcends patriotism and just because george bush and adolf hitler are related to me by blood (through the common ancestor Adam won't necessarily mean that i would address and love them in the same way as i would my parents, siblings and children, and even so, a Muslim in a position of understanding and strong faith will much sooner renounce his blood family if they became strongly at odds with the guidance of Allah.
i hope it's easier to understand it this way (ladies and gentlemen, my fellow americans lol :hmm:


Originally Posted by goodwill
KH stated that, according to Arabic etymology, the name Eve (Hawa) means “feeling.” (Isn’t the word for feeling in Arabic “ahsas” or something similar?) The Bible explains why our first mother was called Eve: “And Adam called his wife's name Eve (Khawa in Hebrew); because she was the mother of all living (khay)” (Genesis 3:20).
Hawwa has a strong element of desire, lust, air, breeziness, inspiration, whispering of/in the heart.
in arabic, the word for living is hayy (you could write it as khayy since it's a strong guttural "h". Hayaah also means shyshy, bashful etc.

The two terms appear to be at stark contrast in meaning, however it is also evident that sometimes the two opposing meanings in arabic often have a relation or hint of irony to them, but in this instance, the term hawwa appears to me to indicate desire and the description of her creation as a soulmate, the events in the garden of firdus, the shame and the sowing together of leaves as apparel appear to strengthen that observation.



Originally Posted by goodwill
KH quoted the Quran comparing Adam to Jesus. The Bible makes the comparison too and in fact speaks of Jesus as the second Adam. KH, however, did not explain the significance of Jesus’s virgin birth.
There had appeared heavy corruption within society despite an outward show of propriety and law and order, prostitution had also become a taboo norm and the priestly class had become a bunch of roman agents appeasing and controlling the masses on behalf of pagan rome to the extent that the letter of the law was used to twist the interpretation off spirit (often directly opposed to it), the confusion caused by God's strange work actually got the unused components of their brains to light up (like fir trees during winter solstice when the new sun (not son) is born).


Originally Posted by goodwill
KH stated that Jesus had twelve disciples but KH’s list of names mistakenly included Joseph of Arimathea and Stephen the martyr. KH also gave no historical evidence to back up his assertion that none of the Twelve wrote any books of the New Testament.
You could be correct in your observation, God knows best.



Originally Posted by goodwill
KH admitted that, in the Lord’s Prayer, which is found in the New Testament, Jesus taught His disciples to address God as “Father.”
Father was a common term at the time and the abundance of parables used to make people think and reflect demonstrate that the term father was a parable - and not a literal assertion, and in Jesus' case, with the romans trying to eliminate him politically, and the hypocrites trying to stone his mother despite all the clear signs and their constant slandering, arguing and demanding his father's name every time they lost a public debate, it is absolutely easy to see the reasoning. Is it not written in your scripture "ye are gods"? So y yous blaming me for something less?


Originally Posted by goodwill
KH thought it absurd that the incarnate God should have bodily functions, but why should a system created by God be unworthy of Him? When God created the human body, did He not create it good?
Then one would have to rationally explain the claim that the person in question was physically sired by God (astaghfirullah), every time i've had it pushed at me i've asked how, and thsy've explained that it's not literal. Then when i ask why he's called "only begotten" they do mental irish jigs.
Also, in order to be "begotten" the father would have to exist before the son, and this also raises questions on how a father and a son are co existent and co-eternal. Also, if the son is the father, the questions of impregnating one's own mother to be would raise some eyebrows and questions of blasphemy.


Originally Posted by goodwill
KH seemed to speak as if Jesus asked forgiveness for Himself when He taught His disciples to ask for forgiveness for themselves in the Lord’s Prayer. But doesn’t the Quran affirm with the Bible that Jesus is sinless and so He would have had no sins to ask forgiveness for?
If he's sinless, why did you kill him, and why would you walk about with a replica of the alleged torture and execution device on your neck, someone once told me that it was impossible that the nasranis of egypt used to sacrifice a pure virgin girl to the nile annually for it to flood despite the historical accounts of the ban by 'umar ibn khattab's governer in alexandria at the time, they claimed it was a pagan rite and had nothing to do with the nasranis, however, the mindset is clearly present.
Rather him than me.



Originally Posted by goodwill
KH argued that because the Lord’s Prayer mentions the Father only, it somehow ruled out the Trinity. But that assertion is a non sequitur.
It is unnecessary to go to lengths to refute the trinity concept which was solidified in rome despite the huge protest movements, bible banning and the slayings of the aryans, one just needs to read the bible from cover to cover and skip the long bits about genealogies etc to know where the weight on the scales lies on the isue.
It is indeed the foremost commandment.


Originally Posted by goodwill
KH spoke as if the Lord’s Prayer as it stands recorded in the New Testament (Matthew 6) is the prayer that Jesus taught His disciples. But if the disciple Matthew did not write down that prayer—since KH claimed earlier that no disciple wrote any New Testament books—then who wrote that prayer down so accurately?
It appears that there were a few learned men around jesus at the time, the tax collectors would have been literate since they had to keep ledgers and give accounts to the roman*governors. Brother Khalid Yaseen is human, one can easily accept that he may sometimes be unwarily incorrect, however, Islam is not dependent on lecturers, the lecturers are dependent upon it and seek to understand what they can of it. Their mistakes will not discredit Islam but will rather raise questions and make the truth more relevant.

Originally Posted by goodwill
KH claimed that Jesus pulled His garment away angrily from a woman seeking healing. However, the Bible never says that Jesus jerked His garment away from anybody, much less that He jerked it away angrily. This incident exists in KH’s imagination but not in the Bible.
There are more than one account of the woman suffering from palsy/unlean spirit and they are contradictory, some seem like revisions of other accounts with the narrator's personal opinion added. It appears that khalid either mistakenly did the same thing or was left with the genuine impression that Jesus was not initially happy with the fact that the pure spirit had left him, but was later satisfied with her reasoning and intention.


Originally Posted by goodwill
Not only that but KH has the account of what happened wrong. It was not a woman but a rich young man whom Jesus addressed when He said, “Why callest thou Me good?” This account is given not in one but in three of the Gospels (Matthew 19, Mark 10, Luke 18), yet somehow KH still got it wrong.
Again, the only account that agrees with the statement is the heavily modified book of matthew, in all the others, he creates a sharp distinction between himself and God by saying i'm not good and neither are you, but God is.

Originally Posted by goodwill
KH quoted the Gospels according to Matthew, Luke and John to show what those who heard Jesus in person said about Jesus. KH thus admits that the Gospels contain early, accurate, and firsthand information about Jesus. Christians agree.
There are obviously many accurate accounts in the gospels, however it is also obvious that there is also heavy editing.


Originally Posted by goodwill
Finally, KH quoted the Bible again to show that the people of Jesus’ day considered Jesus to be “that prophet” who should come into the world. The allusion is to Deuteronomy 18, which predicts that a prophet would come. Thus, KH hereby joined Christians in affirming that the prophet predicted in Deuteronomy 18 is Jesus.
The prophet who would bring the new law after moses?
Read the opening verses of john where jesus has an encounter with the scribes and pharisees sent by the high priest and elders.


may Allah increase us in guidance and reward brother khaalid abundantly for his efforts.
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goodwill
05-21-2016, 11:28 PM
One cannot so easily accept egregious errors from Brother Khalid Yaseen when he puts himself forward as an expert. He should have known better.


He seemed to have no objections to addressing God as Father. Who has a higher standing in a household, a son or a slave?


It is not the case that the Father must have existed chronologically prior to His only-begotten Son. This can be illustrated by analogy. The Bible identifies the Lord Jesus not only as God’s Son but also as His Word and Wisdom. Just as there was never a time when God was without His Word and Wisdom, so there has never been a time when God was not Father. God has been with His Son, His Word and wisdom, from eternity.


I have read the Bible from cover to cover repeatedly for many years and can attest that the doctrine of the Trinity agrees with the Biblical data. A historical note: the Greek church fathers not the popes of Rome, were more prominent in the early doctrinal controversies, so the claim that the “trinity concept was solidified in rome” does not make sense. The doctrine of the Trinity was well established in the Church independently of Rome.


Jesus did not create “a sharp distinction between himself and God by saying i'm not good and neither are you, but God is.” If you read those passages carefully, you will see that Jesus did not disclaim His own goodness. Our Lord asked questions to get people to think. For example, although Jesus was the promised Messiah, He did not go around proclaiming, “Look here, I am the Messiah!” He generally left it up to individuals to make that inference for themselves.
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Misbah0411
05-21-2016, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by goodwill
One cannot so easily accept egregious errors from Brother Khalid Yaseen when he puts himself forward as an expert. He should have known better.


He seemed to have no objections to addressing God as Father. Who has a higher standing in a household, a son or a slave?


It is not the case that the Father must have existed chronologically prior to His only-begotten Son. This can be illustrated by analogy. The Bible identifies the Lord Jesus not only as God’s Son but also as His Word and Wisdom. Just as there was never a time when God was without His Word and Wisdom, so there has never been a time when God was not Father. God has been with His Son, His Word and wisdom, from eternity.


I have read the Bible from cover to cover repeatedly for many years and can attest that the doctrine of the Trinity agrees with the Biblical data. A historical note: the Greek church fathers not the popes of Rome, were more prominent in the early doctrinal controversies, so the claim that the “trinity concept was solidified in rome” does not make sense. The doctrine of the Trinity was well established in the Church independently of Rome.


Jesus did not create “a sharp distinction between himself and God by saying i'm not good and neither are you, but God is.” If you read those passages carefully, you will see that Jesus did not disclaim His own goodness. Our Lord asked questions to get people to think. For example, although Jesus was the promised Messiah, He did not go around proclaiming, “Look here, I am the Messiah!” He generally left it up to individuals to make that inference for themselves.
And you convinced yourself of all this...:uhwhat
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eesa the kiwi
10-08-2016, 06:59 PM
bump
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eesa the kiwi
10-08-2016, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
And you convinced yourself of all this...:uhwhat

hvae you heard of the sport mental gymnastics?
seems christians are good at it
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theplains
10-15-2016, 06:58 PM
I think the Quran mentions Jesus as the Messiah. What does this term mean in Islamic theology?

Thanks,
Jim
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