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Serinity
05-18-2016, 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by ~ Sabr ~
What are you confused about?
Jihad, al wala wal bara, befriending kuffar, living with them, and something like that. And some more.

Islam is a Merciful religion, and says to be compassionate etc. But I am confused cuz we have to show al wara wal bara, (hate and love for Allah SWT)

What is allowed, etc. Some ayats, and 2 fatwas that make me go "what?" One fatwa seems to express "no contact with kuffar!" the other "show compassion, etc. Islam is merciful," etc.
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Kiro
05-18-2016, 12:21 PM
and so it continues!
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~ Sabr ~
05-18-2016, 12:28 PM
:salamext:

You need to stick with 1 school of thought, not jump from places to places :ia: Go to a scholar.
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noraina
05-18-2016, 12:46 PM
Assalamu alaykum

That term, al wala wal bara, loving and hating for the sake of Allah swt, is an extremely broad term. It applies to practically everything, we should hold fast to all that that is pleasing to Allah swt, and withdrawing from all that which is displeasing to Him.

In terms of jihad, if you read through the conditions of jihad which are closely regulated by Shariah law, then we are only allowed to attack others when we are being attacked or in fear of it. Islam is an extremely merciful religion, to kill anyone for no reason is a grave sin, however it is also a practical deen so pacifism wouldn't do, so we are only allowed to take part in war through self-defence. And even then, we are forbidden from killing non-combatants, or monks, or women, children and the elderly...there are so many strict guidelines regarding jihad subhanAllah.

As for how we should be with non-Muslims, the Qur'an uses the term awliya when cautioning us, this word has many levels of meanings and in this context I read some scholars say means a very, very close friend or teacher or guardian, whom we would take spiritual advice from - which should obviously only be from a Muslim. The Prophet (pbuh) was very polite and merciful when with non-Muslims - if we had no contact with them then how on earth would we be able to give dawah for our beautiful religion?

The Qur'anic ayats need to be taken into context - context is very important. Islam is a religion of mercy and compassion, we must be compassionate to even birds and creatures let alone other humans, unfortunately it is portrayed often as a religion of jihad and warfare. We should be focusing more in the greater Jihad inshaAllah, any desires and flaws we see within ourselves.

I'm not a scholar obviously, just a lay person, but I remember reading an article on this - inshaAllah I'll try and find it to give a more scholarly review.
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EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 01:26 PM
"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." [60:8]

"Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." [60:9]


The shelf stacker in Tesco, the poll booth attendant, the commercial pilot, the corrupt bankers and the journalists should not be considered legitimate targets as they are not doing anything to harm the believers.

Scholars the world over have answered this question multiple times. Wasn't the prophet Muhammad's s.a.w uncle a non believer and even died a non believer? Muhammed s.a.w did not treat him unjust.

Of course don't be best buddies with the non believers but it would make no sense to actively hunt them down. The prophet Muahmmad s.a.w did not do this.
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 01:31 PM
But I have a kafir as my class teacher etc. And you said spiritual advice? So it is forbidden to take them as close friends, and take SPIRITUAL Advice from them.

And we are only allowed to attack in self defence?(and restrain ourselves as best as possible)

In Islam, killing innocents, is highly condemned and sinful, yeah? Can non combatants (whom we are not allowed to kill) include healthy men without arms?

you said that the Quran said we can't take the non muslims as allies or protectors (Awliyah) but I live in a darul kufr, where I am under protection from a kafir state.

But I also remember reading the Prophet SAW taking refuge in a Christian Country (With the Christian King, Negus, afaik, pls correct if wrong)

you said that Islam is a Merciful religion, which I agree, but there are verses which are probably taken out of context. But whenever I read authentic hadiths, and ayats from the Quran to be kind, and stuff like that, but not kind with those who attack us. I also see ayats saying to be harsh and ruthless with the kuffar.

To be kind and merciful towards those who don't attack
Not kind and mercy - to those who attack.
Be ruthless to the kuffar

Yet, in some hadiths it is stated to show forbearance with the enemy.

Yet I see hadiths where it is stated to be patient with the enemy, etc. And to not wish for an encounter on the battlefield.. How do I prevent such conflicting thoughts?

Are all kafirs enemies of Allah SWT? Cuz I was ignorant once, and I don't think I'd come to Islam if the one who gave dawah thought of me as an enemy.

I also know that Jihad against the kafirs on the battlefield, is the lesser Jihad, while fighting your nafs is the greater Jihad.
I guess I've read too much ISIS stuff.
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 01:44 PM
“…if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind…” - (5:32).

"They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.[4.89]
"Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them." [4.90]**
"You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given. you a clear authority" [4.91]

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." [60:8]

"Fight against those who fight against you in the way of Allah, but do not transgress, for Allah does not love transgressors." [2.190]





Before engaging in battle, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers:

1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan*Abu Dawud)

2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)

4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)

5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari,*Sahih Muslim)

6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad*Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan*Abu Dawud)

8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan*Abu Dawud).

10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they*commit*evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)

Only the scholars or knowledgeable people can call for jihad, not the laymen people,
Those who wish to do jihad must be of a sane mind, joining out of their own free will (not forced), have their families permisssion, and must not be young under puberty (as for the minimum age im not sure)

Living among kuff, we must treat them kindly with respects and manners and be friendly with them just like you would treat any of your brothers,
You just dont take them as clise friends as it could impact on your deen and emaan....just because they do not believe does not make them devils or our enemies, maybe be your kind character people want to find out about islam and revert.. your actions and how you treat people play a big role on this matter.
Ofcourse its better to be in muslim lands but we are in the west and it is our duty to call people to islam in the most kind & inviting manner showing them the beauty of islam through our charecter of dealing with them

Jihad is for fighting those who come into your lands and try to fight/kill you i.e kuffar, but all the rules i posted above must be adhered to, no matter what happens or you could have the wrath of Allah upon you for trangressing the limits put upon you.
Like i said only a schloar or person of knowledge can make the call for jihad
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 01:52 PM
I may be a bit bold, but it is because I want to take out all the things that has been bothering me for almost 1 year.

I know I should not take Jihad under my own hand. But if someone insults Islam at school, I am not allowed to kill, (but he attacks, by insulting??)

Sorry for my boldness, I just want to understand. I feel soo inhumane.

What about ayats like these (probably taken out of context) - cause The Prophet SAW was merciful with the kuffar in giving dawah, and instead of asking for the wrath of Allah SWT upon them, he SAW asked for their guidance. And The Prophet SAW knew of some hypocrites yet did not kill them? Idk

O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous. 9:123
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EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
But I have a kafir as my class teacher etc. And you said spiritual advice? So it is forbidden to take them as close friends, and take SPIRITUAL Advice from them.

And we are only allowed to attack in self defence?(and restrain ourselves as best as possible)

In Islam, killing innocents, is highly condemned and sinful, yeah? Can non combatants (whom we are not allowed to kill) include healthy men without arms?

you said that the Quran said we can't take the non muslims as allies or protectors (Awliyah) but I live in a darul kufr, where I am under protection from a kafir state.

But I also remember reading the Prophet SAW taking refuge in a Christian Country (With the Christian King, Negus, afaik, pls correct if wrong)

you said that Islam is a Merciful religion, which I agree, but there are verses which are probably taken out of context. But whenever I read authentic hadiths, and ayats from the Quran to be kind, and stuff like that, but not kind with those who attack us. I also see ayats saying to be harsh and ruthless with the kuffar.

To be kind and merciful towards those who don't attack
Not kind and mercy - to those who attack.
Be ruthless to the kuffar

Yet, in some hadiths it is stated to show forbearance with the enemy.

Yet I see hadiths where it is stated to be patient with the enemy, etc. And to not wish for an encounter on the battlefield.. How do I prevent such conflicting thoughts?

Are all kafirs enemies of Allah SWT? Cuz I was ignorant once, and I don't think I'd come to Islam if the one who gave dawah thought of me as an enemy.

I also know that Jihad against the kafirs on the battlefield, is the lesser Jihad, while fighting your nafs is the greater Jihad.
I guess I've read too much ISIS stuff.
Brother, I know we don't see eye to eye on many things and you think low of me but ask your local imam what he thinks, go to conferences in your country where highly qualified scholars talk. The Quran and hadiths are not easy to understand and we have to know the context of the verse.

An internet forum is simply not equipped with the knowledge. For everyday issues it's fine but deep topics in Islam require professional knowledge which scholars are able to provide you with.

Inshallah you find the correct guidance.
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Yahya.
05-18-2016, 02:01 PM
We should be focusing more in the greater Jihad
The greatest Jihad is Jihad by the sword, and for some scholars Jihad by your wealth. There are many hadiths indicating this, but its also logically accepted. How can we focus on Jihad against ourselves and our desires when our lands are invaded and our people killed?
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EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by YahyaIbnSelam
The greatest Jihad is Jihad by the sword, and for some scholars Jihad by your wealth. There are many hadiths indicating this, but its also logically accepted. How can we focus on Jihad against ourselves and our desires when our lands are invaded and our people killed?
Jihad by the sword, or AK-47 now... but defensive, or offensive?

Defend the Syria people from Assad = Jihad.
Invade Jordan and capture the land = Jihad? I'm not so sure.
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noraina
05-18-2016, 02:06 PM
Yep bro, you're right that twice Muslims migrated to Abyssinia for protection, because its king was just and he was Christian as well.

The Prophet (pbuh) was also under the protection of his non-Muslim uncle Abu Talib, who gave him clan protection against the persecution of the Quraysh.

And also, we must remember how much Umar ibn al-Khattab opposed Islam before he became a Muslim, he actually wanted to assassinate the Prophet (pbuh) - I remember reading a quote by al-Ghazali where he said we should never be arrogant because we believe we are believers, it may be the non-Muslim we look down upon today may become someone beloved to Allah swt, and indeed we may even completely loose our iman.

Even with the incident a Ta'if, the non-Muslims there actually pelted the Prophet (pbuh) with stones and drove him out in such a cruel and inhumane way, yet when Allah swt sent an angel to him offering to crush the people to death as punishment, the Prophet (pbuh) said, “Even if these people do not accept Islam, I do hope from Allah that there will be persons from among their progeny who would worship Allah and serve His cause.”

Another example would the conquest of Mecca by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), we need to remember how these people of Mecca would insult Islam, would torture and persecute the Muslims in the most awful ways, and made the life of the Prophet (pbuh) miserable for so many years, and yet, when he had an army strong in number, when he could even 'take revenge' for what they had done to him and his followers, he chose to forgive them and the conquest was entirely peaceful, and he said "I speak to you in the same words as Yusuf spoke to his brothers. This day there is no reproof against you; Go your way, for you are free."

There are countless more examples subhanAllah, I am just writing these from the top of my head. Allah swt is ar-Rahman, ar-Rahim, so how could it be that He would not want us as believers to be merciful and compassionate?
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I know I should not take Jihad under my own hand. But if someone insults Islam at school, I am not allowed to kill, (but he attacks, by insulting??)

Sorry for my boldness, I just want to understand. I feel soo inhumane.
Brother i have had men try to attack me, things thrown at me, men fight me, i have been called all names under the sun... i even had a drunk guy with a can of beer in my face threathen me call me a terrorist, telling me to back back to pakistan (im not even asian lol)
ofcourse its going to upset us, enrage us etc (i probally have the shortest temper in the world) but as soon as they physically touch you then do whatever as your defending yourself (oviously not kill them, but some people do deserve a good beat down)

But if its just words, learn how to debate them and turn their insults against them, by all means defend islam but defend it with words, learn your deen learn about every aspect of it, then you wont feel the need to fight them physically, you will be able to fight them with words and make them feel stupid and think about what they are saying whilst defending the honour of islam... sometimes you have to be smarter than them and show your bigger than them.
Ofcorse sometimes its best to ignore them, but not all of us have it in us to ignore our religion being insulted and have to say something
You just have to be able to asses the situation and use the appropriate means of action or lack of
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Jihad by the sword, or AK-47 now... but defensive, or offensive?

Defend the Syria people from Assad = Jihad.
Invade Jordan and capture the land = Jihad? I'm not so sure.
you got a point, I think. Yes there is Jihad by the sword, but that doesn't mean I go and take an AK-47 and kill kuffar around the block In the name of Islam - not Islamic.

Cuz you can't just kill people. Many seem to kill people and label it Jihad. Killing civilians or taking Jihad under your control, as laymen, ain't our job. Afaik.
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noraina
05-18-2016, 02:12 PM
I think you should ask a scholar, though, inshaAllah. These are quite intense questions, which are really dependant on the type of context and conditions someone with knowledge would understand better. :)
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Yahya.
05-18-2016, 02:15 PM
We are not prevented from being kind to Non-muslims who tolerate our religion. ''al-Baraa'' and being harsh is only for non-muslims who insult your religion etc. and see you as an enemy. Like you said, dawah wouldn't be possible if that would be the case. For example Abu Talib, the uncle of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a non-believer, but the prophet still treated him kindly, because of the family relation they had and he being on the side of the muslims and supporting them, despite being a kafir.

Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.
al-Qasas 56

It's said that this verse was revealed because Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) asked Allah very often to guide his uncle.

And the verses about Prophet İbrahim and his relation with his father are also important on this topic.
He treats his father well, and calls him ''Abati ابتي'' which is a more kind word for Father i.e. Ab اب
But later when it became clear to him that he is on the side of Namrud and an enemy of Allah, and that he wont believe anymore, he started to distance himself from him.

There is a good lecture with english subtitles about this, it talks more about Dawah but because its the story of Ibrahim (as) it also includes ''al-Wala and Baraa'' at some points.

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Serinity
05-18-2016, 02:17 PM
There are people who take verses out of context and say "The Prophet SAW fought the kuffar on 12 fronts" some muslims make it sound not merciful.. Sorry to be blunt.

But I read a book on the Prophet SAW given by my relative, whom I trust, whom even when fighting the disbelievers just wanted them to believe.. Idk the authencity of the book.

Cuz my views are in conflict with the Quran.

What does the Quran say when you've been persecuted and after a tough battle, turn superior and victorious?
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EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Brother i have had men try to attack me, things thrown at me, men fight me, i have been called all names under the sun... i even had a drunk guy with a can of beer in my face threathen me call me a terrorist, telling me to back back to pakistan (im not even asian lol)
ofcourse its going to upset us, enrage us etc (i probally have the shortest temper in the world) but as soon as they physically touch you then do whatever as your defending yourself (oviously not kill them, but some people do deserve a good beat down)

But if its just words, learn how to debate them and turn their insults against them, by all means defend islam but defend it with words, learn your deen learn about every aspect of it, then you wont feel the need to fight them physically, you will be able to fight them with words and make them feel stupid and think about what they are saying whilst defending the honour of islam... sometimes you have to be smarter than them and show your bigger than them.
Ofcorse sometimes its best to ignore them, but not all of us have it in us to ignore our religion being insulted and have to say something
You just have to be able to asses the situation and use the appropriate means of action or lack of
I wish guns were allowed in the UK. If they put their hands on us we could gun en down, but not to kill them. Just shoot them where it hurts and watch as they roll around screaming in pain :raging: ;D That will teach you for messing with the muslimahs!
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I wish guns were allowed in the UK. If they put their hands on us we could gun en down, but not to kill them. Just shoot them where it hurts and watch as they roll around screaming in pain :raging: ;D That will teach you for messing with the muslimahs!
Loooool dont get me started on what i would do to these dumb people...proper lil cowards they are picking on women or the elderly
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noraina
05-18-2016, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I wish guns were allowed in the UK. If they put their hands on us we could gun en down, but not to kill them. Just shoot them where it hurts and watch as they roll around screaming in pain That will teach you for messing with the muslimahs!
I don't know about guns, lol,....look at America, one thing that has really cost them is having such relaxed gun laws.

Altho, I think if we were allowed to carry pepper spray, that would be pretty good. I know it is allowed in Europe, like Spain and Switzerland.
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 02:22 PM
YahyaIbnSelam,

But how will we reach the hearts of the enemies? Those who attack the Prophet SAW is an enemy right? But many at Taif did that. Yet the Prophet SAW asked for their guidance..

I mean if we ONLY give dawah to the nice ones, what about those who are harsh against us? Shouldn't we try to give dawah to them?

So you are saying - if they are harsh, we are harsh. But how does harshness upon harshness bring them to Islam?
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Yahya.
05-18-2016, 02:22 PM
Defend the Syria people from Assad = Jihad.
Invade Jordan and capture the land = Jihad? I'm not so sure.

We are not at the stage of invading Jordan, but Jordan is an ally of the USA and their intelligence agency works closely together with CIA.
Jordan was part of the Ottoman Empire, until it was invaded by the British (just like Egypt was invaded). And the law of Allah was being implemented.
Later they gave independence to Jordan, but the King of Jordan was on their side. And they also act how they want them to act. I think they are nothing else than a ''modern day colony'' or vassal state, just like Saudia Arabia, Egypt, etc.

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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
There are people who take verses out of context and say "The Prophet SAW fought the kuffar on 12 fronts" some muslims make it sound not merciful.. Sorry to be blunt.

But I read a book on the Prophet SAW given by my relative, whom I trust, whom even when fighting the disbelievers just wanted them to believe.. Idk the authencity of the book.

Cuz my views are in conflict with the Quran.

What does the Quran say when you've been persecuted and after a tough battle, turn superior and victorious?
Do you mean the battle of the trench wich is what alot of non-muslims use to insult him and call him a warlord or not merciful (astagfirllah)
Where about 600 jews where executed ?
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Yahya.
05-18-2016, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
YahyaIbnSelam,

But how will we reach the hearts of the enemies? Those who attack the Prophet SAW is an enemy right? But many at Taif did that. Yet the Prophet SAW asked for their guidance..

I mean if we ONLY give dawah to the nice ones, what about those who are harsh against us? Shouldn't we try to give dawah to them?

So you are saying - if they are harsh, we are harsh. But how does harshness upon harshness bring them to Islam?
At the first stage you can also be kind to harsh people, but I think this ends somewhere. Prophet Muhammad (saw) later besieged Taif for example..
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EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
I don't know about guns, lol,....look at America, one thing that has really cost them is having such relaxed gun laws.

Altho, I think if we were allowed to carry pepper spray, that would be pretty good. I know it is allowed in Europe, like Spain and Switzerland.
Then how about a taser? I would shoot him with it and taser him mercilessly until the taser runs out of battery :D

If there's one thing that would really get me mad it is people invading my space. Who the hell do they think they are to touch or or put their rotten stinking breath and their yellow teeth in our faces :raging:

Or pepperspray! So many options hmmmmm :p
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
YahyaIbnSelam,

But how will we reach the hearts of the enemies? Those who attack the Prophet SAW is an enemy right? But many at Taif did that. Yet the Prophet SAW asked for their guidance..

I mean if we ONLY give dawah to the nice ones, what about those who are harsh against us? Shouldn't we try to give dawah to them?

So you are saying - if they are harsh, we are harsh. But how does harshness upon harshness bring them to Islam?
Like i said you have to asses the situation..
Some people insult as they dont know any better and are misguided from the media, and by telling them the truth then they understand and back-off or sometimes ask more questions...

Then there are those who just insult for the sake of insulting and just want to argue, and no matter how many times you tell them the truth they refuse to accept

Prophet mohammed s.a.w was a mercy to the whole of mankind not just muslims, we are meant to follow in his footsteps as best we can, even He had to fight wars to defend themselves.

There was a time where muslims where not allowed to wage war but could only use words to defend themselves i.e the Quran...
When the verses of war where sent down thats when they was allowed to use physicall force to defend themselves in wars.
(The verses of killing kuffar are all sent down during times of war but notice after every verse of killing them, there is always a verse of mercy after it showing that if they are to stop or want peace they must be shown mercy, even prisoners of war had to be fed waterd and looked after)
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Do you mean the battle of the trench wich is what alot of non-muslims use to insult him and call him a warlord or not merciful (astagfirllah)
Where about 600 jews where executed ?
Idk about that. But I do remember an incident where a Jew did something and The Prophet SAW killed the whole tribe? May Allah SWT forgive me if I am wrong. I want that explained too.
Originally Posted by YahyaIbnSelam
At the first stage you can also be kind to harsh people, but I think this ends somewhere. Prophet Muhammad (saw) later besieged Taif for example..
Prophet SAW did that? bring proof. Cuz I mean, he SAW made dua for their offspring to become pious Muslims. If The Prophet SAW killed the Taif, there would be no off spring. Thus no pious people there. But there are. So pls explain.
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Idk about that. But I do remember an incident where a Jew did something and The Prophet SAW killed the whole tribe? May Allah SWT forgive me if I am wrong. I want that explained too.


Prophet SAW did that? bring proof. Cuz I mean, he SAW made dua for their offspring to become pious Muslims. If The Prophet SAW killed the Taif, there would be no off spring. Thus no pious people there. But there are. So pls explain.
Yes that was the battle of the trench, i coverd this in my Quran class, im going to type out my notes of the tasfir i was taught... pls give me about 5 mins as its quite a lengthy story in sha Allah
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EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
YahyaIbnSelam,

But how will we reach the hearts of the enemies? Those who attack the Prophet SAW is an enemy right? But many at Taif did that. Yet the Prophet SAW asked for their guidance..

I mean if we ONLY give dawah to the nice ones, what about those who are harsh against us? Shouldn't we try to give dawah to them?

So you are saying - if they are harsh, we are harsh. But how does harshness upon harshness bring them to Islam?
Brother, we cannot guide anyone. It is Allah who guides!

These people are destined for the hellfire so let them be, let them talk trash, let them be kufr, for they will surely regret it when they meet their maker.

Concentrate or showing Islam to people who are open to listening. I think @Misbah0411 is a revert? Correct me if I am wrong. I am sure he did not revert because someone put a gun in his face or treated him harshly... no. I suspect his heart was open to Islam and Allah saw this and guided him.

Let the ignorant kufr be kufr... it's ok, let them. Focus on the kufr who have open minds. It is Allah that guides whom he wills and not everyone will be guided for their hearts are evil.
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*charisma*
05-18-2016, 02:51 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Islam is simple.

Don't harm anyone that doesn't harm you. Don't fight anyone that's not fighting you.
Help individuals that need to be helped (regardless of religion).
Be kind to everyone, but don't be so close to a disbeliever that they are able to sway you and influence you away from your deen, or take enemies of Islam as friends.

Concentrate on jihadul nafs more because this is what will benefit you right now. You're not in a state where you have to fight anyone physically so you can learn about that for the sake of expanding your knowledge, but otherwise it's not something you will need right now. The different types of jihad have different rulings, so you'll have to learn about each of those separately.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

Islam is simple.

Don't harm anyone that doesn't harm you. Don't fight anyone that's not fighting you.
Help individuals that need to be helped (regardless of religion).
Be kind to everyone, but don't be so close to a disbeliever that they are able to sway you and influence you away from your deen, or take enemies of Islam as friends.

Concentrate on jihadul nafs more because this is what will benefit you right now. You're not in a state where you have to fight anyone physically so you can learn about that for the sake of expanding your knowledge, but otherwise it's not something you will need right now. The different types of jihad have different rulings, so you'll have to learn about each of those separately.
best advice
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 03:02 PM
I see. Islam is very simple. But what do I do when I come across ayats that seem to suggest fighting etc. And invading other countries in Jihad?

Cuz I read an ayat once that to go in Jihad for the sake of Allah SWT is a righteous, pious deed. So I thought "so is killing people a praiseworthy deed?" Which is wrong, perhaps, the ayat meant in Jihad......

Astaghfirgullah if I said any wrong. There are just some disturbing thoughts I get when I read Quran. Like very negative, etc. I really want to love Allah SWT more, but when I read the Quran.. I am probably a munaafiq. :/

Some muslims say "All kafirs are Enemies!'' and quote 60:4 for Al wala wal bara.

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah . Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. 60:4

I try to be as bold as possible.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-18-2016, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
Assalamu alaykum

That term, al wala wal bara, loving and hating for the sake of Allah swt, is an extremely broad term. It applies to practically everything, we should hold fast to all that that is pleasing to Allah swt, and withdrawing from all that which is displeasing to Him.

In terms of jihad, if you read through the conditions of jihad which are closely regulated by Shariah law, then we are only allowed to attack others when we are being attacked or in fear of it. Islam is an extremely merciful religion, to kill anyone for no reason is a grave sin, however it is also a practical deen so pacifism wouldn't do, so we are only allowed to take part in war through self-defence. And even then, we are forbidden from killing non-combatants, or monks, or women, children and the elderly...there are so many strict guidelines regarding jihad subhanAllah.

As for how we should be with non-Muslims, the Qur'an uses the term awliya when cautioning us, this word has many levels of meanings and in this context I read some scholars say means a very, very close friend or teacher or guardian, whom we would take spiritual advice from - which should obviously only be from a Muslim. The Prophet (pbuh) was very polite and merciful when with non-Muslims - if we had no contact with them then how on earth would we be able to give dawah for our beautiful religion?

The Qur'anic ayats need to be taken into context - context is very important. Islam is a religion of mercy and compassion, we must be compassionate to even birds and creatures let alone other humans, unfortunately it is portrayed often as a religion of jihad and warfare. We should be focusing more in the greater Jihad inshaAllah, any desires and flaws we see within ourselves.

I'm not a scholar obviously, just a lay person, but I remember reading an article on this - inshaAllah I'll try and find it to give a more scholarly review.
Originally Posted by Serinity
you got a point, I think. Yes there is Jihad by the sword, but that doesn't mean I go and take an AK-47 and kill kuffar around the block In the name of Islam - not Islamic.

Cuz you can't just kill people. Many seem to kill people and label it Jihad. Killing civilians or taking Jihad under your control, as laymen, ain't our job. Afaik.

Serinity my bro,
I understand the pain in having Islam slandered
but you also must remember that this has been going on since the life of the Prophet SAW.
And during his SAW's life, the Quraysh's insults were not enough to warrant a war, or any killing.
The Muslims at the time went to battle when we were attacked, or provoked to war.
Even after as the Islamic Empire expanded, we did not kill the nonbelievers on the basis of theirnon-belief or whether their words were insulting or not, but rather whether they accepted rule under the Muslims with Jizya or not.
The nonbelievers were allowed to retain their religions and even allowed to retain their laws as long as they complied to their alliance under Muslim rule.
Even when Muhammad SAW, conquered Makkah, the pagans of Makkah who had treated the Muslims so terribly and Muhammad SAW so mercilessly were worried about how the Muslims would act. Muhammad SAW, never considered their past offensive words or actions, and treated them with mercy, and they accepted Islam by the drives thereafter.
However when we are in battle, in the midst of a war, then we have to be steadfast and go through with all the necessary actions, and there are verses and Hadith addressing that, but even then the Muslims treated their enemies with fairness and respect.
We are not the ones to judge hearts.
Our purpose is to worship Allah alone, invite to Islam, and defend Islam through our behaviour deeds and actions, but we have no right to go about killing with vigilante justice without any governing body and scholarly analysis.

Whenever we feel confused we must seek Guidance from Allah, and look to the life, actions, and character of Muhammad SAW.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-18-2016, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I wish guns were allowed in the UK. If they put their hands on us we could gun en down, but not to kill them. Just shoot them where it hurts and watch as they roll around screaming in pain :raging: ;D That will teach you for messing with the muslimahs!
lol there's America for that.

only problem is everyone has guns,
and you have to pay obscene amounts for medical.

Not that UK medicine is cheap, it's taken out of taxes
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I see. Islam is very simple. But what do I do when I come across ayats that seem to suggest fighting etc. And invading other countries in Jihad?

Cuz I read an ayat once that to go in Jihad for the sake of Allah SWT is a righteous, pious deed. So I thought "so is killing people a praiseworthy deed?" Which is wrong, perhaps, the ayat meant in Jihad......

Astaghfirgullah if I said any wrong. There are just some disturbing thoughts I get when I read Quran. Like very negative, etc. I really want to love Allah SWT more, but when I read the Quran.. I am probably a munaafiq. :/

Some muslims say "All kafirs are Enemies!'' and quote 60:4 for Al wala wal bara.

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah . Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. 60:4

I try to be as bold as possible.
If you travelled to Syria and fought Assad with FSA surely this can only be legitimate jihad. He is slaughtering our people for heavens sake! Invading a country which does the muslims no harm is not legitimate.

The Palestinians stabbing jewish [soldiers] would be legitimate jihad in my eyes because they're being persecuted and harmed. One needs to distinguish between legitimate jihad and illegitimate jihad. For this it's best to consult knowledgable scholars. Not Anwar al-Awlak or these other uneducated Muslims who because they lead a jihadist group they think they actually know anything.


Please watch brother Serinity

Reply

*charisma*
05-18-2016, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I see. Islam is very simple. But what do I do when I come across ayats that seem to suggest fighting etc. And invading other countries in Jihad?

Cuz I read an ayat once that to go in Jihad for the sake of Allah SWT is a righteous, pious deed. So I thought "so is killing people a praiseworthy deed?" Which is wrong, perhaps, the ayat meant in Jihad......

Astaghfirgullah if I said any wrong. There are just some disturbing thoughts I get when I read Quran. Like very negative, etc. I really want to love Allah SWT more, but when I read the Quran.. I am probably a munaafiq. :/

Some muslims say "All kafirs are Enemies!'' and quote 60:4 for Al wala wal bara.

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah . Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. 60:4

I try to be as bold as possible.
When you come across an ayah that you don't fully understand, continue reading the Quran because sometimes other ayahs clear it up, and sometimes certain ayahs are there for a very specific reason. I also highly recommend you read the tafsir of the Quran so you can understand some of the background of why the ayah was sent down or it's significance. In the Quran it also may have what seems to be opposing ayahs. For example you mentioned the ayah where it says "to kill them wherever you find them" but there's also an ayah that says "if you kill one person unjustly than it is as if you have killed all of mankind" so you have to be aware that Allah is most just and no one is allowed to kill anyone unjustly even if they are a nonbeliever. If you are being fought against and people are being killed around you, THEN as a way to defend yourself and protect the innocent, you may fight back. No one likes to fight or kill, in fact you may even hate it, you may even not want to do it when people are being unjustly slayed in front of you..but you have to do what you hate sometimes for the greater good. To put ourselves in a position to help someone is actually difficult (ever heard of the bystander effect?) so to do it for the sake of Allah when we don't want to do it because we are afraid or whatever reason... is considered a type of jihad, but be aware that there are rules for this type of jihad so this doesn't mean you go and kill anyone that looks like they are doing something wrong.

Do you know the story of Ibrahim (as)? I think if you look into that you may understand the ayah more. Also if you do a search you might find some insightful posts by members with greater knowledge inshallah.
Reply

*charisma*
05-18-2016, 04:04 PM
I also want to mention that when you read the quran, your mind is going to be critical because this is your religion, your pride, and you want it to be perfect. The quran is meant to get your mind working and asking question, but it also answers those questions as you continue along. People who have not read the Quran will pick these ayahs and say the most vile things because they are seeing it from the perspective already disbelieving and hating Islam, and you're seeing it from the perspective of someone who wants to discover islam...so inshallah you will get the benefit. You will get even more benefit from it when you learn Arabic inshallah because the way the words are put together and how they're used is incredibly powerful and amazing. May Allah give us all the chance to learn and implement the Quran the way it's meant to be learned and implemented ameen.
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 04:10 PM
battle of the trench




when prophet Mohammed s.a.w arrived in Medina the jews there welcomed him, there was 3 tribes (Banu Qainuka’a, Banu nazir & Banu Qurayza)
They lived in harmony for some time, recognised Prophet Mohammed s.a.w as their leader & agreed to help fight with them if the enemies (Quraysh) tried to attack again. (the jews where allowed to practise their religion freely and had their rights)
The friendliness between them started to brake down as some of the jews had reservations towards the muslims and prophet Mohammed s.a.w, which they ended causing trouble in the lands, they where given many warnings to stop but they continued to make trouble, so they where exiled from the land. (Banu nazir plotted to kill prophet Mohammed s.a.w, but where found out)
The jewish tribe that was allowed to stay was the Banu Qurayza and a new agreement was formed with them.


once exiled banu Nazir carried on their plots to kill prophet Mohammed s.a.w and the muslims, so some of the leaders went to inlist the help of others, they also went to Mecca to enlist the help of the mushrikeen (Quraysh) who where more than happy to aid them against the muslims, between all the enemies they had between 10-12 thousand soldiers in the army, which would have been the biggest army against the 3000 or so muslims.


The muslims learned of the impending attack, and a meeting was called as to what to do or how to handle the attack, as they where greatly outnumbered, a suggestion was made to build a trench around them using the mountains and houses as natural barriers (Salman made the suggestion ?) they only had a week to prepare for the arrival of the invading forces, they worked day and night during the harshness of winter with little food or water.
The muslims where worried Banu qurayza would break their treaty with them, but Banu Qurayza explained they would not betray the muslims will stand by them to fight.


After 6 days the enemies arrived, but couldn't get over the trench nor could their horses jump over, anytime they got close the muslims would push them back, during this time an enemy was able to sneak in and convinced Banu Qurayza to break their treaty with the muslims and attack them from inside and block their way to food and water and let troops in through their side of the fortress to capture women children and the while the men guarded the trench
…Prophet Mohammed heard of this news and sent someone to clarify if this was true, he then sent men to defend the city on that side, (one in Banu qurayza reverted to islam without them knowing and told the Quraysh that the Banu qurayza wanted to keep some of their leaders as collateral incase the attack was not successful) (this was done to cause dispute among the enemies which worked) during this time Banu qurayza & the Quraysh where disputing due to this and had not attacked.


As many people heard this, some muslims left the war in fear as they where even more outnumbered than before and wondered when Allah's help would come,(near the end of the siege) Prophet Mohammed made dua to Allah and that very night a heavy wind/sandstorm that overturned enemies tents, blew away their supplies, blew out their fires etc, The muslims where not touched at all in anyway.& sent angels to help
Prophet Mohammed sent one of his men on a mission to find out what the enemy where up to and found out the men wanted to leave as they couldn't get past the trench, their supplies had been swept away by the wind, their animals where dying, they lost their never and heart and began to withdraw (the Quraysh and their allies)


Banu Qurayza stayed in their fortress, while the muslims where rejoicing from their victory, Jibreel a.s told prophet Mohammed to march upon banu Qurayza as they had broken their treaty and should be punished.
A sahabi went to go and speak to them & tell them their options, he accidentally indicated that if they surrendered they would be executed for committing treason
(1. they turn to islam 2. kill their women and children 3.attack (it was the sabbath for them)
Banu Qurayza chose to be punished by what the Torah says for their actions, they choose to be executed upon their own jewish laws, their women and children where taken as captives
the siege lasted for 25-30 days all together

May Allah forgive me if i had made any mistakes or written anything wrong..
(this is from Surah Al Ahzab)

(please note that the punishment for treason in every country is death, even use, uk etc )

(sorry for the loooong read LOL)
Reply

Eric H
05-18-2016, 04:11 PM
Greetings and peace be with you EgyptPrincess;

I wish guns were allowed in the UK. If they put their hands on us we could gun en down, but not to kill them.
If you have guns, they will have guns, this would not be a good place to live.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 04:24 PM
on another note, this is why it is upon every muslim to seek knowledge so that we laymen may understand our religion and not think bad or wrong things of islam.
maybe take up a tasfir course in sha Allah as they go through every single verse and explain, why this verse was sent and give the context in which it can be used and the misconceptions that come with certain verses.

as i said the verses of war and killing where send down during times of war only, not general day to day verses.
before the verses about drinking alcohol came down, they used to drink heavily some people where drunks, as soon as the verse was revealed they immediately destroyed all alcohol and got rid of it..

we cannot use verses meant for times of war on our day to day basis, this is why i re-iterate the importance of learning or even taking online courses which cover tasfir, verses will always be used out of context while people have no knowledge of the time it was sent down, as some where sent down for specific reasons for specific times which can not be used in other times..... i.e verses on war

prophet Mohammed himself lived in peace with christians, jews, non believers, he gave them rights and protection and treated them fairly and honourably, and they also lived peacefully (well some of them)
we cannot paint every kaffir as an enemy, maybe some of them will become muslim and have a higher status than you in the sight of Allah, only Allah knows, we are meant to be inviting and kind and peaceful, but with every absolute right to defend ourselves and not transgress the limits of Allah set out for us.
Reply

Yahya.
05-18-2016, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
If you travelled to Syria and fought Assad with FSA surely this can only be legitimate jihad. He is slaughtering our people for heavens sake! Invading a country which does the muslims no harm is not legitimate.

Not Anwar al-Awlak or these other uneducated Muslims who because they lead a jihadist group they think they actually know anything.
1. Other groups beside FSA are not in a legitimate Jihad?...

2. Anwar al-Awlaki (rh) doesn't know anything?

You should be careful before accusing muslims of something.
Reply

Yahya.
05-18-2016, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Prophet SAW did that? bring proof. Cuz I mean, he SAW made dua for their offspring to become pious Muslims. If The Prophet SAW killed the Taif, there would be no off spring. Thus no pious people there. But there are. So pls explain.
He didn't kill the population. He surrendered the city and captured it. This is recorded in many history and fiqh books. For example Siyar al-Kabir by Imam Muhammad (rh)
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you EgyptPrincess;



If you have guns, they will have guns, this would not be a good place to live.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
and peace to you.

Not everyone would have a gun and plus I would pop a cap in their *** faster than they could blink :Emoji48: bam bam bam wild west style hehe
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by YahyaIbnSelam
1. Other groups beside FSA are not in a legitimate Jihad?...

2. Anwar al-Awlaki (rh) doesn't know anything?

You should be careful before accusing muslims of something.
Tell me how he is qualified to give knowledge? What education does he have? He has absolutely basic knowledge and was an imam as a local mosque for a few years before fleeing to Yemen. I would not listen to a word this man had to say. There are much more knowledgeable people out there who have studied 15 or 20+ years every aspect of Islam.
Reply

Kiro
05-18-2016, 04:36 PM
....
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 04:43 PM
I've noticed something. The way someone conveys the knowledge is very very important.

If you have 20 years of knowledge but your dawah is harsh, then that isn't good.

What does this verse mean btw:

O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah ; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

and another ayat stating you can't love kafirs, but we can marry them? (the Muslim men can marry The people of the book) ? If we can't love them, but be kind, then how does that work?

I also have some questions on slavery.

But for now:
There is Defensive Jihad
Offensive Jihad - can anyone explain that?

and I have to be bold so you can help - I find Islam harsh, but I know it isn't but I feel it is. The morals and Justice is good, but I find it a bit too harsh. (may Allah SWT forgive me) The harshness makes me a bit disconnected from Islam.

OH Allah SWT forgive me. Ameen.
And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I've noticed something. The way someone conveys the knowledge is very very important.

If you have 20 years of knowledge but your dawah is harsh, then that isn't good.

What does this verse mean btw:

O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah ; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

and another ayat stating you can't love kafirs, but we can marry them? (the Muslim men can marry The people of the book) ? If we can't love them, but be kind, then how does that work?

I also have some questions on slavery.

But for now:
There is Defensive Jihad
Offensive Jihad - can anyone explain that?

and I have to be bold so you can help - I find Islam harsh, but I know it isn't but I feel it is. The morals and Justice is good, but I find it a bit too harsh. (may Allah SWT forgive me) The harshness makes me a bit disconnected from Islam.

OH Allah SWT forgive me. Ameen.
And Allah SWT knows best.
The first verse is talking about the muslims who leave the religion they will be replaced with reverts to islam who love islam and dont care about people criticising them or mocking them. They will be firm on the deen and surpass those who where born into islam and not taking it seriously (there was more to it but i have to find my notes on that verse in sha Allah)

Men and women are not allowed to marry kaffir.
Men are allowed to marry jewish or Christian women who are practising their faith providing they are open minded to accept islam at a later date or take an oath to revert at a later stage once they understand it more (as these are people of the book)
Women are only allowed to marry muslim men as the children are brought up upon the fathers relgion not the womens.

Slavery is a topic which definitely has to be explained by someone else as i dont know much on it, i know a bit but not enough to talk on it and i had my reservations on this topic aswell, i still had some doubt that haven't been cleared up but i just know that Allah is just and would never allow an injustice to go unanswered on thr day of judgement.

What do you mean by offensive jihad ?
Reply

Eric H
05-18-2016, 05:06 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Serinity;

Jihad, al wala wal bara, befriending kuffar, living with them, and something like that. And some more.

Islam is a Merciful religion, and says to be compassionate etc. But I am confused cuz we have to show al wara wal bara, (hate and love for Allah SWT)

What is allowed, etc. Some ayats, and 2 fatwas that make me go "what?" One fatwa seems to express "no contact with kuffar!" the other "show compassion, etc. Islam is merciful," etc.
The following is how I have understood Jihad.........

Greater Jihad the personal spiritual struggle or effort of every Muslim to follow the teachings of Allah (God) in their own lives e.g. overcoming things such as anger greed, pride and hatred; forgiving someone who has hurt them; working for social justice.
Lesser Jihad the struggle to build a good Muslim society; also Holy War (the struggle to defend against oppression; with force if necessary).
The greater Jihad seems to be how you struggle to find peace, in angry situations, and you cannot find peace if your fists are clenched, or you have a weapon in your hand.

In the spirit of searching for justice for all people,

Eric
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 05:10 PM
Thanks and may Allah SWT reward you sister for being patient with me. Ameen.

Defensive Jihad is fighting back when an enemy fights you. Here you can fight back to your best ability - but no transgression cuz Allah SWT does not love transgressors (afaik) - Am I right in this one?

For example if a disbeliever / kafir comes to me and shouts "Terrorists!" it would not be wise for me to attack him, cuz I'd just fuel the fire and fall into his games and traps.

Islam tells us to use wisdom - if fighting is best and there is no other way - then ok - but avoid fighting as much as possible righT? And use wisdom!

For the Offensive Jihad, Idk much, but my logic says that it is when we initate the fighting or want to expand our territory.

If we want to expand territory, do we invade other countries? Or what?

This is what I got:

The Islamic empire expands,
A) the nations that attack us when they are defeated lose their land
B) when the Muslim empire fights for expansion, the nonmuslim nations that are incorporated are given the option to retain their religion and most of their laws as long as they pay the taxes and promise alliance,
C) dawah, people saw the Muslims, their success, and their character, they became Muslim and joined the khalifa
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Thanks and may Allah SWT reward you sister for being patient with me. Ameen.

Defensive Jihad is fighting back when an enemy fights you. Here you can fight back to your best ability - but no transgression cuz Allah SWT does not love transgressors (afaik) - Am I right in this one?

For example if a disbeliever / kafir comes to me and shouts "Terrorists!" it would not be wise for me to attack him, cuz I'd just fuel the fire and fall into his games and traps.

Islam tells us to use wisdom - if fighting is best and there is no other way - then ok - but avoid fighting as much as possible righT? And use wisdom!

For the Offensive Jihad, Idk much, but my logic says that it is when we initate the fighting or want to expand our territory.

If we want to expand territory, do we invade other countries? Or what?

This is what I got:

The Islamic empire expands,
A) the nations that attack us when they are defeated lose their land
B) when the Muslim empire fights for expansion, the nonmuslim nations that are incorporated are given the option to retain their religion and most of their laws as long as they pay the taxes and promise alliance,
C) dawah, people saw the Muslims, their success, and their character, they became Muslim and joined the khalifa
Ameen..
May Allah guide you to the truth and ease your heart of any conflictions you may have, whilst strengthening your emaan..Ameen

Your welcome brother, we all go through these things, but most dont ask about it they just let it fester in their minds then shaytan comes and attacks your own faith through this way.

Yes you are absolutely right for defence jihad Alhamdulilah.
We must always use common sense in every situation wether is it wise to ignore, or engage with them.
We should never transgress the limits Allah has laid out for us.
If someone attacks you physically you have every right to defend yourself untill he stops, then you stop.
If a person is trying to kill you and you have no other option but to kill them in order to defend yourself of your family then you are allowed to kill them (but this must be the absolute last possible scenario)
If they are insulting you then you have the option to either ignore or engage in a debate with words (but remember to not insult them just defend islam)

I honestly dont know much on the offensive jihad, wether its actually a valid form of jihad....somebody with more knowledge than me on this area would have to answer that one
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 06:00 PM
you see sister, I rather ask NOW and cleanse myself from ALL my doubts, than lie down whilst dying and shaytaan coming to me with all the doubts.. I don't want to die in disbelief because of these doubts.

May Allah SWT cleanse me from all the doubts I have and make me love Him SWT, and make me stronger because of these challenges.

Afaik:

For Jihad to be issued a scholarly consensus has to be made, no man on their own can initate Jihad. Is that forbidden? And btw, is it forbidden in Jihad to kill mercilessly?

I read the 10 rules (or more?)

Has Allah forbidden to kill life unnecessarily? (I know.. Yes. But I want ease lol)
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Eric H
05-18-2016, 06:32 PM
Only speak when your words are more beautiful than silence.
As the Prophet (pbuh) said, “Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should either speak good things or remain silent.” [Bukhari & Muslim]

posted by Ishak
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
you see sister, I rather ask NOW and cleanse myself from ALL my doubts, than lie down whilst dying and shaytaan coming to me with all the doubts.. I don't want to die in disbelief because of these doubts.

May Allah SWT cleanse me from all the doubts I have and make me love Him SWT, and make me stronger because of these challenges.

Afaik:

For Jihad to be issued a scholarly consensus has to be made, no man on their own can initate Jihad. Is that forbidden? And btw, is it forbidden in Jihad to kill mercilessly?

I read the 10 rules (or more?)

Has Allah forbidden to kill life unnecessarily? (I know.. Yes. But I want ease lol)
Ameen.

Brother i have to laugh lol honestly you need to stay away from "is" propaganda as alot of the questions your asking stem from those who are upon what they are upon and people easily fall into it with the whole "west are the enemies" maybe stay away from their nasheeds aswell yea ? Lol

Im not sure wether it is forbidden for a laymen to make the call to jihad but the scholars have to as they can asses the situation in more knowledgeable sense, they can determine whether jihad is necessary or if people are jumping to conclusion to quickly and listning to their emotions over what Allah dictactes to us.
Lets imagine there are 2 tribes, and one man from a tribe does something to upset the other by mistake/accident wether a fight or such, but the man believes it was done with malicious intent and intended to upset them and this man has now declared jihad upon the other tribe as he is thinking with emotions and not clearly (imagine how out of control it would be without scholarly advice from people who must make judgements and decisions without letting emotions come into play)

Im not sure what you mean by killing mercilessly if you mean torture as no thats not allowed.
But when in war you do anything to defend yourself and defend your brothers in arms and the people who cannot defend themselves

Yes Allah has forbidden us to kill unnecessarily, people & animals are included in this,

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors." [5:32]
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
you see sister, I rather ask NOW and cleanse myself from ALL my doubts, than lie down whilst dying and shaytaan coming to me with all the doubts.. I don't want to die in disbelief because of these doubts.

May Allah SWT cleanse me from all the doubts I have and make me love Him SWT, and make me stronger because of these challenges.

Afaik:

For Jihad to be issued a scholarly consensus has to be made, no man on their own can initate Jihad. Is that forbidden? And btw, is it forbidden in Jihad to kill mercilessly?

I read the 10 rules (or more?)

Has Allah forbidden to kill life unnecessarily? (I know.. Yes. But I want ease lol)
You're having doubts about Islam? o.0 forgive me if I read wrong.

It is illegal for a person other than the caliphate or the leader of a "state" to initiate jihad. Of course jihad comes in many forms and it does not have to be violent. did you watch the videos I posted?

Also it is wrong to kill mercilessly and you should not disfigure the body.

Watch this video if you're unsure.

Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 07:40 PM
I think I have been over thinking Jihad..

One bold question:

Does The Quran encourage discrimination? Like Muslims vs. Kafirs. ?

When I see around the world, I just see confusion.

Is it ok for me to be friends (not close) but friends with kuffar? (1 fatwa says being friends with a kafir (to my understanding) is like kufr..)

I just want to act like myself. Whether someone is a bad guy or a good guy, I will manage. Tbh.....

I constantly feel the wrath of Allah SWT if I ever think good of kafirs or sorry for them. (which isn't normal yeah? Allah SWT doesn't say to be all heartless to kuffar right? There are some ayats that make it seem like that..) te

Not all kafirs are evil either, they may have evil inside of them.. But I feel if we become harsh with them, we are just helping shaytaan in turning them away from Islam, right?

I mean. If I attack the PERSON for being a kafir, that ain't helping, right? Shaytaan's plan is to mislead mankind. IF I was to become judgmental and go "oh kuffar, you filth" they'd think "why would I want to be in a religion that makes people like that?"

Soo.. WHat does Allah SWT want? I mean. I am probably a munaafiq at this point.

Did the Prophet SAW like Jihad (physical fighting ) cause I read a hadith which states that the Shaheed would like to go back to this world to be killed again and again for the Honour and reward they get from Allah SWT.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I think I have been over thinking Jihad..

One bold question:

Does The Quran encourage discrimination? Like Muslims vs. Kafirs. ?

When I see around the world, I just see confusion.

Is it ok for me to be friends (not close) but friends with kuffar? (1 fatwa says being friends with a kafir (to my understanding) is like kufr..)

I just want to act like myself. Whether someone is a bad guy or a good guy, I will manage. Tbh.....

I constantly feel the wrath of Allah SWT if I ever think good of kafirs or sorry for them. (which isn't normal yeah? Allah SWT doesn't say to be all heartless to kuffar right? There are some ayats that make it seem like that..) te

Not all kafirs are evil either, they may have evil inside of them.. But I feel if we become harsh with them, we are just helping shaytaan in turning them away from Islam, right?

I mean. If I attack the PERSON for being a kafir, that ain't helping, right? Shaytaan's plan is to mislead mankind. IF I was to become judgmental and go "oh kuffar, you filth" they'd think "why would I want to be in a religion that makes people like that?"

Soo.. WHat does Allah SWT want? I mean. I am probably a munaafiq at this point.
Consider the following brother Serinity.

You are about to enter a building and a kufr opens the door and holds it open for you, do you be a decent human being and say thank you? Of course... this is not being friends.

You're at work and a kufr colleague asks you for help on his PC or something. You go over and help him fix his problem. This is being a decent person, this is not being friends.

A kufr invites you to go bowling with the colleagues after work. Do you go? You should not go. Now you're becoming friends with them and also you may fall into temptation, I have made this mistake brother.. as you very well know.

Too many Muslims and non muslims want to drive a wedge between the believers and the non believers so we will fight each other. This surely will only benefit shaytan?

Now consider the following. A kufr sees you at the park, I dunno, perhaps you're driving your RC car or something. He stops and asks you about it and you have a chat. Again this is not being friends... Then he wonders about Islam and asks you about it, by allowing him to speak with you, you've opened up a pathway for his curiosity into Islam. Allah has given you this opportunity to turn someone to Islam. Whereas if you just ignored him he may not ever become Muslim.

Think about it logically, what turns kufr to Islam? Hate? Violence? Arrogance? Impatience? No... it is the friendly, open, welcoming, patient Muslims which make people think about the religion. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. In other words if all the kufr see is hate and arrogance towards them from Muslims this will obviously cause those potential Muslims to immediately get a negative response to Islam because they think this is what Islam teaches.

Imagine on the day of judgement, Allah swt says to you "I gave you 10 opportunities to open the door for Islam to someone, why did you reject those opportunities?" Even if you talk to a kufr about Islam and he laughs in your face and swears at you and calls you whatever name. At least you can hold in your heart that you tried. Subhanallah surely Allah will acknowledge your intentions?
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Consider the following brother Serinity.

You are about to enter a building and a kufr opens the door and holds it open for you, do you be a decent human being and say thank you? Of course... this is not being friends.

You're at work and a kufr colleague asks you for help on his PC or something. You go over and help him fix his problem. This is being a decent person, this is not being friends.

A kufr invites you to go bowling with the colleagues after work. Do you go? You should not go. Now you're becoming friends with them and also you may fall into temptation, I have made this mistake brother.. as you very well know.

Too many Muslims and non muslims want to drive a wedge between the believers and the non believers so we will fight each other. This surely will only benefit shaytan?

Now consider the following. A kufr sees you at the park, I dunno, perhaps you're driving your RC car or something. He stops and asks you about it and you have a chat. Again this is not being friends... Then he wonders about Islam and asks you about it, by allowing him to speak with you, you've opened up a pathway for his curiosity into Islam. Allah has given you this opportunity to turn someone to Islam. Whereas if you just ignored him he may not ever become Muslim.

Think about it logically, what turns kufr to Islam? Hate? Violence? Arrogance? Impatience? No... it is the friendly, open, welcoming, patient Muslims which make people think about the religion. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. In other words if all the kufr see is hate and arrogance towards them from Muslims this will obviously cause those potential Muslims to immediately get a negative response to Islam because they think this is what Islam teaches.

Imagine on the day of judgement, Allah swt says to you "I gave you 10 opportunities to open the door for Islam to someone, why did you reject those opportunities?" Even if you talk to a kufr about Islam and he laughs in your face and swears at you and calls you whatever name. At least you can hold in your heart that you tried. Subhanallah surely Allah will acknowledge your intentions?
True.. And I ask Allah SWT to punish me for whatever evil I've done and injustice.. I want to see justice that badly.

Anyways, yeah you are right. If a kafir came and said "will you help me with some math?" I'd say "sure, I can try" or something.

Now Islam tells us to be kind to both muslims and kafirs. But lets say there is a kafir who attacks you mocks you, etc. What do you do? Distance yourself from him. Do you still show good manners? IDk. Probably not cuz there is an ayat saying only show kindness to those who don't attack us.

But should we be the ones who show good character and repel evil with what is better? Doesn't Allah SWT like justice, righteousness and stuff like that?

If a kafir came and said "you terrorists are soo.. blablabla" should I go "you little... I will show you!" no, I don't.

OR if a kafir mocks me etc. Do I become angry? No. But if he mocks Islam, yes. But should I repress my anger? Probably yeah. Should I still show mercy? Perhaps the mercy I show may overshine the darkness in his heart?

I feel harshness upon harshness, fire upon fire, and there is more fire..no progress. Allah SWT says to repel evil with good, right?

So if someone comes to you, etc. But then the verse comes up saying you can only be kind to those who do NOT attack us.. So what about those who do? we can't be kind to them.

Idk, I am confused.
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 08:51 PM
^^^^^^^
Thiss what sister Egypt said

And yes you can be friends but you need to draw the line at some point, as in not socialising with them (plural) outside of work or college or whatever, if its going out to eat then thats fine.(but you choose the restaurant)
When i say socialising i mean where they will insist on free mixing, alcohol haram food etc etc
You can give advice to them, but you do not take it from them especially spiritual advice which should only be taken from a muslim.
The reason is that if you spend so much time with them and not muslims, it will impact on your emaan at some point, and we need muslims around us to turn to when our emaan is low or to just be around and talk about Allah.
Plus what do you talk about when your with them ? Nothing of benifit to your soul it will always (mostly) be idle chit chat
( i know from experience, i had no choice but to leave my kuffar friends behind as it impacted on my deen in such a negative way astagfirllah, and you could never have a convo that actually had some meaning)
(If these kuffar friends are open minded then by all means be friendly to them even bring them around the brothers have a nice time with them be inviting to islam and in sha Allah through these types of behaviors their hearts open to islam and your friends become muslim and you wont have to worry about this "being friends with kuff stuff" [emoji4]
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
True.. And I ask Allah SWT to punish me for whatever evil I've done and injustice.. I want to see justice that badly.

Anyways, yeah you are right. If a kafir came and said "will you help me with some math?" I'd say "sure, I can try" or something.

Now Islam tells us to be kind to both muslims and kafirs. But lets say there is a kafir who attacks you mocks you, etc. What do you do? Distance yourself from him. Do you still show good manners? IDk. Probably not cuz there is an ayat saying only show kindness to those who don't attack us.

But should we be the ones who show good character and repel evil with what is better? Doesn't Allah SWT like justice, righteousness and stuff like that?

If a kafir came and said "you terrorists are soo.. blablabla" should I go "you little... I will show you!" no, I don't.

OR if a kafir mocks me etc. Do I become angry? No. But if he mocks Islam, yes. But should I repress my anger? Probably yeah. Should I still show mercy? Perhaps the mercy I show may overshine the darkness in his heart?

I feel harshness upon harshness, fire upon fire, and there is more fire..no progress. Allah SWT says to repel evil with good, right?

So if someone comes to you, etc. But then the verse comes up saying you can only be kind to those who do NOT attack us.. So what about those who do? we can't be kind to them.

Idk, I am confused.
Brother your reading so much into this.

You have to be able to judge the situation and use common sense for each and every situation..

If a kuffar insults you, sometimes its best to just let them waffle on and ignore them, they are the ones gaining Allahs wrath by insulting a muslim..

If a kuffar insults your religion, then by your choice you can either ignore, or you can defend islam by explaining to them where they are wrong and how they are wrong.... some people are genuinely ignorant and do not understand islam and fear the unknown, once you explain it to them they then ask more questions and are very interested and become very friendly (happend to me)

If somebody is threatning you and insulting you at the same time and you feel they will carry out the threat and assult you, then self defence is needed, (sometimes they do need a beat down to realise they cannot act this way) sometimes Allah punishes people through other peoples hands

But you as a person have to be able to judge each situation individually

Tbh i have the worst temper and not even i can contain myself and I know its wrong then i feel bad sometimes after i lash out.
But you must remember as soon as you step outside you are representing islam so you have to show islam in a good light, by your mouth and actions and character
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
True.. And I ask Allah SWT to punish me for whatever evil I've done and injustice.. I want to see justice that badly.

Anyways, yeah you are right. If a kafir came and said "will you help me with some math?" I'd say "sure, I can try" or something.

Now Islam tells us to be kind to both muslims and kafirs. But lets say there is a kafir who attacks you mocks you, etc. What do you do? Distance yourself from him. Do you still show good manners? IDk. Probably not cuz there is an ayat saying only show kindness to those who don't attack us.

But should we be the ones who show good character and repel evil with what is better? Doesn't Allah SWT like justice, righteousness and stuff like that?

If a kafir came and said "you terrorists are soo.. blablabla" should I go "you little... I will show you!" no, I don't.

OR if a kafir mocks me etc. Do I become angry? No. But if he mocks Islam, yes. But should I repress my anger? Probably yeah. Should I still show mercy? Perhaps the mercy I show may overshine the darkness in his heart?

I feel harshness upon harshness, fire upon fire, and there is more fire..no progress. Allah SWT says to repel evil with good, right?

So if someone comes to you, etc. But then the verse comes up saying you can only be kind to those who do NOT attack us.. So what about those who do? we can't be kind to them.

Idk, I am confused.
If a kufr insults Islam he is insulting Allah swt and he will face the harshest of punishments of which we cannot imagine. Of course when someone insults us personally or our lord, we will become angry but there is greater progress in dialogue than in violence.

I can't say I have had much experience with insults, I once got called a rag head lol but so what? I laugh it off. It is me who will be having the last laugh when they are dropped into Jahannam. When I was called a rag head I think I said to him "pee off you dirty chav" lol. Should I have said this? I don't know, I am just letting him know that I am not going to stand by and be insulted. So personally for me defend yourself with words by all means but try to keep them halal.

Anger is a very tough emotion to control and Inshallah we will be rewarded every time we suppress our anger. If someone grabs your thobe or hijab then you have every right to physically defend yourself and I would encourage everyone here to do just that. If someone "attacks" you, verbally then of course you don't have to be kind to them lol... but you also don't have to harm them.

Are you naturally a violent person? Take up boxing, then you can punch all the kufr that you want ;D just don't make friends with them. Be [friendly] to them, but don't become [friends] with them.

To be honest I'm really not the best person to be helping you brother. I have many of my own anger problems and things to sort out. Inshallah you understand the message I am trying to convey in my advice. Also try to watch more Islamic videos on peace and forgiveness rather than fighting and wars...
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
If a kufr insults Islam he is insulting Allah swt and he will face the harshest of punishments of which we cannot imagine. Of course when someone insults us personally or our lord, we will become angry but there is greater progress in dialogue than in violence.

I can't say I have had much experience with insults, I once got called a rag head lol but so what? I laugh it off. It is me who will be having the last laugh when are dropped into Jahannam. When I was called a rag head I think I said to him "pee off you dirty chav" lol. Should I have said this? I don't know, I am just letting him know that I am not going to stand by and be insulted. So personally for me defend yourself with words by all means but try to keep them halal.

Anger is a very tough emotion to control and Inshallah we will be rewarded every time we suppress our anger. If someone grabs your thobe or hijab then you have every right to physically defend yourself and I would encourage everyone here to do just that. If someone "attacks" you, verbally or physically then of course you don't have to be kind to them lol... but you also don't have to harm them.

Are you naturally a violent person? Take up boxing, then you can punch all the kufr that you want ;D just don't make friends with them. Be [friendly] to them, but don't become [friends] with them.

To be honest I'm really not the best person to be helping you brother. I have many of my own anger problems and things to sort out. Inshallah you understand the message I am trying to convey in my advice. Also try to watch more Islamic videos on peace and forgiveness rather than fighting and wars...
He should get a punching bag and write "kuffar" on it and everytime he gets angry he can punch it to death [emoji23]
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 09:10 PM
I guess I am way too naive. Yeah, I do understand that talking and being with kuffar is idle chit chat.. I assume it is mostly about girls, or what next movie comes out.. I feel so imprisoned sometimes.

Anyways, sometimes when I intend to be nice an ayat pops up in my mind saying:

Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. 60:9

The ayat:

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:8

Now, correct me if I am wrong, those who mock you, etc. you have to ignore them etc. or repel their evil with what is better.

Am I right in having this mindset "whatever is best to do in the moment, that will have best outcome, take it!" or something. I like to use my head, and determine whether I should be kind or not..

But then ayats come up (rephrasing) "you can't love them" but to the ones who attack us, can we be kind?

I mean, there is a difference between loving a kafir, and feeling sorry. I have more of a 'feeling sorry' feeling. Unless they cross the limit.

In shaa' Allah you get what I mean. And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 09:13 PM
No, I am not a violent person, never was (sometimes I got angry and yeah.. flipped off. but that was rare. There was once I did so.)&nbsp;<br><br>Ayat 60:8 - 9 and some other ayats about being harsh with the kuffar pop up whenever I try to do some good. And I then feel like I am at conflict with the Quran ....<br><br>May Allah SWT heal me. Ameen.

I've almost always been calm, etc. But hated when I was played around with.. So got angry a couple of times lol.
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I guess I am way too naive. Yeah, I do understand that talking and being with kuffar is idle chit chat.. I assume it is mostly about girls, or what next movie comes out.. I feel so imprisoned sometimes.

Anyways, sometimes when I intend to be nice an ayat pops up in my mind saying:

Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. 60:9

The ayat:

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:8

Now, correct me if I am wrong, those who mock you, etc. you have to ignore them etc. or repel their evil with what is better.

Am I right in having this mindset "whatever is best to do in the moment, that will have best outcome, take it!" or something. I like to use my head, and determine whether I should be kind or not..

But then ayats come up (rephrasing) "you can't love them" but to the ones who attack us, can we be kind?

I mean, there is a difference between loving a kafir, and feeling sorry. I have more of a 'feeling sorry' feeling. Unless they cross the limit.

In shaa' Allah you get what I mean. And Allah SWT knows best.
The kuffar here (not all) are NOT attacking you lol
Those verses are for when you are at war with them, they those specific people are not fighting you bcoz of islam they are not trying to get you out your house, they are just going on about their daily lives like you

When they act kind to you repay the favour by being kind back, be kind and a nice person in general, even giving people smiles is a form of charity.

When they attack you to harm or kill you or your family or another believe.. you defend yourself or them (no you do not be kind, im sure you wouldnt be kind to a seriel killer trying to kill you)

Yesss whatever is best for that moment or situation, you in sha Allah have to be able to asses what is the best action or lack of action to take without trangressing the limits


In sha Allah you understand

Originally Posted by Serinity
I guess I am way too naive. Yeah, I do understand that talking and being with kuffar is idle chit chat.. I assume it is mostly about girls, or what next movie comes out.. I feel so imprisoned sometimes.

Anyways, sometimes when I intend to be nice an ayat pops up in my mind saying:

Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. 60:9

The ayat:

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:8

Now, correct me if I am wrong, those who mock you, etc. you have to ignore them etc. or repel their evil with what is better.

Am I right in having this mindset "whatever is best to do in the moment, that will have best outcome, take it!" or something. I like to use my head, and determine whether I should be kind or not..

But then ayats come up (rephrasing) "you can't love them" but to the ones who attack us, can we be kind?

I mean, there is a difference between loving a kafir, and feeling sorry. I have more of a 'feeling sorry' feeling. Unless they cross the limit.

In shaa' Allah you get what I mean. And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 09:22 PM
I guess I am confusing ayats for times of war with my day to day situation.. :/Poor me. imsad

Ya Allah SWT grant me understanding. Ameen.
Reply

muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I guess I am confusing ayats for times of war with my day to day situation.. :/Poor me. imsad
Alhamdulilah Brother its ok we all make mistakes, and its better we realise our mistakes sooner than later and learn from them..
Your not the first and certainly will not be the last,

Alhamdulilah now you know better in sha Allah
Keep watching islamic lectures on these topics or even get a book of tasfir and it will explain every ayat giving the context, why it came down, when, and when it is to be used
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-18-2016, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
No, I am not a violent person, never was (sometimes I got angry and yeah.. flipped off. but that was rare. There was once I did so.)&nbsp;<br><br>Ayat 60:8 - 9 and some other ayats about being harsh with the kuffar pop up whenever I try to do some good. And I then feel like I am at conflict with the Quran ....<br><br>May Allah SWT heal me. Ameen.

I've almost always been calm, etc. But hated when I was played around with.. So got angry a couple of times lol.
Can you give a real world example of where you tried to do good and something negative happened? I once bought a homeless man a sandwich and gave it to him and he told me he would rather eat food the bin then from the hand of a muslim... this really made me upset, not upset because he rejected my food, but because his heart is fractured and filled with ignorance and hatred. I just threw it to him and walked away, I don't know if he ended up eating it.

bottom line brother is this is life.. expect to have some people swear at you, expect to get insulted and expect even the prophet s.a.w and Allah swt to be insulted. How you react to these insults is what defines you. Will you act like the kufr and starting swearing and trying to fight him? Or will you accept that he is delusional and make dua that Inshallah he is guided.
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Alhamdulilah Brother its ok we all make mistakes, and its better we realise our mistakes sooner than later and learn from them..
Your not the first and certainly will not be the last,

Alhamdulilah now you know better in sha Allah
Keep watching islamic lectures on these topics or even get a book of tasfir and it will explain every ayat giving the context, why it came down, when, and when it is to be used
Yeah, I will try to be the most moral person. :P After all the Inhabitants of Jannah are those with GOOD character.

my relatives says to use the logic Allah SWT gave you.
Reply

Misbah0411
05-18-2016, 09:32 PM
Ibn Taymiyyah said:"The declaration of faith requires you to love only for the sake of Allah,to hate only for the sake of Allah, to ally yourself only for the sake of Allah, to declare enmity only for the sake of Allah; it requires you love what
Allah loves and to hate what Allah hates."


22. You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, making friendship with those whooppose Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers,or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Ruh (proofs,light and true guidance) from Himself. And We will admit them to Gardens(Paradise) under which rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever). Allah is pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Verily, it is the Party of Allah that will be the successful. (Surah Al-Muja'dilah)

4. Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim (Abraham) and those with him, when they said to their people: "Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred for ever, until you believe in Allah Alone," except the saying of Ibrahim (Abraham) to his father:"Verily, I will ask for forgiveness (from Allah) for you, but I have no power to do anything for you before Allah ." Our Lord! In You (Alone) we put our trust, and to You (Alone) we turn in repentance, and to You (Alone) is(our) final Return. (Surah Al-Muntahinah)


1. O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies(i.e. disbelievers and polytheists, etc.) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e.Islamic Monotheism, this Qur'an, and Muhammad.) (Surah Al-Mumtahinah)


Ibn Taymiyah said:"The obligation of the believer is to choose both his friends and his enemies for the sake of Allah. Whenever there are believers, he must ally himself with them, even if they have wronged him, since no personal offense can absorb one of the obligations of alliance and faith. Allah has said:


9. And if two parties or groups among the believers fall to fighting, then make peace between them both, but if one of them rebels against the other, then fight you (all) against the one that which rebels till it complies with the Command of Allah; then if it complies, then make reconciliation between them justly, and be equitable. Verily! Allah loves those who are equitable.

10. The believers are nothing else than brothers (in Islamic religion). So make reconciliation between your brothers, and fear Allah, that you may receive mercy. (SurahAl-Hujurat)


"Allah has made them brothers, despite their fighting and rebellion towards one another, and has commanded their reconciliation. So the believer should reflect upon the fact that he owes his loyalty to his brother, even if he has one been wronged by him or finds that he is his adversary and that the disbeliever is his enemy,even if he is kindly treated by him and respected. Allah sent His Messengers and revealed His Books in order that all religion should be devoted to Him,alone; therefore, love should only be for those who are loyal to Him and anger for His enemies. Respect and honor are for His friends, while degradation and humiliation are for His foes. This explains the behavior of the first generations of Muslims who, despite their fighting with one another, allied themselves together in religion, it did not oppose one another in the same way that they opposed the disbelievers. They accepted one another's testimony,intermarried and inherited from each other. They acted with one another as Muslims even though the fight each other, scorned one another and more."


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Serinity
05-18-2016, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Can you give a real world example of where you tried to do good and something negative happened? I once bought a homeless man a sandwich and gave it to him and he told me he would rather eat food the bin then from the hand of a muslim... this really made me upset, not upset because he rejected my food, but because his heart is fractured and filled with ignorance and hatred. I just threw it to him and walked away, I don't know if he ended up eating it.

bottom line brother is this is life.. expect to have some people swear at you, expect to get insulted and expect even the prophet s.a.w and Allah swt to be insulted. How you react to these insults is what defines you. Will you act like the kufr and starting swearing and trying to fight him? Or will you accept that he is delusional and make dua that Inshallah he is guided.
I will do what the Prophet SAW said and just do dua to Allah SWT to guide them, but even when they insult my Prophet Muhammad SAW? That is pretty hard.

But I know The Prophet SAW was always kind, etc. and the command for Jihad etc. Was only when they were an established state. On your own you have to restrain yourself and be as good as you can. Something like issuing Jihad is for the Ulama, something we have no right to issue.

Imagine laymen issue Jihad here and there based on emotions? Anyways. Remember we have a right to fight back but it should be minimal, (i.e. no transgression or aggression)

In shaa' Allah what I said was Islamic. So I will just say "Peace" to the ignorant.
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I will do what the Prophet SAW said and just do dua to Allah SWT to guide them, but even when they insult my Prophet Muhammad SAW? That is pretty hard.

But I know The Prophet SAW was always kind, etc. and the command for Jihad etc. Was only when they were an established state. On your own you have to restrain yourself and be as good as you can. Something like issuing Jihad is for the Ulama, something we have no right to issue.

Imagine laymen issue Jihad here and there based on emotions? Anyways. Remember we have a right to fight back but it should be minimal, (i.e. no transgression or aggression)

In shaa' Allah what I said was Islamic. So I will just say "Peace" to the ignorant.
Sometimes when they insult him (s.a.w) you can actually challenge their views if you are able to debate and spread knowledge through that way...
But its just down to your judgement if they are just looking for a fight or actually want to conversate but have no idea how to
Just use your best judgement on how to deal with people in sha Allah
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Misbah0411
05-18-2016, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
That term, al wala wal bara, loving and hating for the sake of Allah swt, is an extremely broad term. It applies to practically everything, we should hold fast to all that that is pleasing to Allah swt, and withdrawing from all that which is displeasing to Him.

In terms of jihad, if you read through the conditions of jihad which are closely regulated by Shariah law, then we are only allowed to attack others when we are being attacked or in fear of it. Islam is an extremely merciful religion, to kill anyone for no reason is a grave sin, however it is also a practical deen so pacifism wouldn't do, so we are only allowed to take part in war through self-defence. And even then, we are forbidden from killing non-combatants, or monks, or women, children and the elderly...there are so many strict guidelines regarding jihad subhanAllah.

As for how we should be with non-Muslims, the Qur'an uses the term awliya when cautioning us, this word has many levels of meanings and in this context I read some scholars say means a very, very close friend or teacher or guardian, whom we would take spiritual advice from - which should obviously only be from a Muslim. The Prophet (pbuh) was very polite and merciful when with non-Muslims - if we had no contact with them then how on earth would we be able to give dawah for our beautiful religion?

The Qur'anic ayats need to be taken into context - context is very important. Islam is a religion of mercy and compassion, we must be compassionate to even birds and creatures let alone other humans, unfortunately it is portrayed often as a religion of jihad and warfare. We should be focusing more in the greater Jihad inshaAllah, any desires and flaws we see within ourselves.

I'm not a scholar obviously, just a lay person, but I remember reading an article on this - inshaAllah I'll try and find it to give a more scholarly review.
A good 3 volume book on Wala and Bara is called: "Al-Wala'Wa'l-Bara According to the Aqeedah of the Salaf" by Muhammad Saeed al-Qahtani You might find a pdf version of it online.

Jihad is also a offensive jihad according to the Sahaba and to the rest of the righteous predecessors. The Prophet at the end of his life took the fight to the Romans in the Expedition of Tabuk. The Sahaba after the Prophet s.a.a.w took the fight further to the Persians and Romans, North Africa and Russian Caucus. The purpose of Jihad to make the whole earth under the Law of Allah. Waiting for the disbelievers to attack to wage Jihad is illogical to this concept and the early Muslims understood this.

Yes the Quranic ayats need to be taken into context. That is why those ayats that were revealed later towards the end of the Prophets mission were mostly about the establishment of the State, ahkam (law), wala and bara, huduud (punishments), and jihad which would guide the Ummah on until the Day of Judgement.

This "greater Jihad" concept is flawed and has no merit because it is based on the weak hadith, "we have come back from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad." Scholars of hadith have declared its weakness throughout history. This is a hadith that the Sufi's like to repeat ad nauseum to give their innovations credibility.
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
A good 3 volume book on Wala and Bara is called: "Al-Wala'Wa'l-Bara According to the Aqeedah of the Salaf" by Muhammad Saeed al-Qahtani You might find a pdf version of it online.

Jihad is also a offensive jihad according to the Sahaba and to the rest of the righteous predecessors. The Prophet at the end of his life took the fight to the Romans in the Expedition of Tabuk. The Sahaba after the Prophet s.a.a.w took the fight further to the Persians and Romans, North Africa and Russian Caucus. The purpose of Jihad to make the whole earth under the Law of Allah. Waiting for the disbelievers to attack to wage Jihad is illogical to this concept and the early Muslims understood this.

Yes the Quranic ayats need to be taken into context. That is why those ayats that were revealed later towards the end of the Prophets mission were mostly about the establishment of the State, ahkam (law), wala and bara, huduud (punishments), and jihad which would guide the Ummah on until the Day of Judgement.

This "greater Jihad" concept is flawed and has no merit because it is based on the weak hadith, "we have come back from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad." Scholars of hadith have declared its weakness throughout history. This is a hadith that the Sufi's like to repeat ad nauseum to give their innovations credibility.
https://islamqa.info/en/10455
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Misbah0411
05-18-2016, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Thank you for reiterating that it is a weak hadith.
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muslimah_B
05-18-2016, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Thank you for reiterating that it is a weak hadith.
Alhamdulilah no problem :)
But please post some evidences in sha Allah to help the brother and anyone else reading so they can see its not your opinion but facts in sha Allah

(I dont know about the "offensive jihad" and wether it is a valid form of jihad so i havent spoken on it)
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Misbah0411
05-18-2016, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Alhamdulilah no problem :)
But please post some evidences in sha Allah to help the brother and anyone else reading so they can see its not your opinion but facts in sha Allah

(I dont know about the "offensive jihad" and wether it is a valid form of jihad so i havent spoken on it)
http://www.alifta.net/fatawa/fatawaD...=1&PageID=5220
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muslimah_B
05-19-2016, 12:58 AM
https://youtu.be/j70h7lThfIw

Just thought you could give that a listen, with what i meant about having a warming and inviting nature
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muslimah_B
05-19-2016, 01:02 AM
Brother i meant could you post about the "offensive jihad"

Alhamdulilah I already knew the hadeeth was weak, i was just posting evidence for you so that everyone for themselves could clarify it was weak
In sha Allah people may benifit from both
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Misbah0411
05-19-2016, 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Brother i meant could you post about the "offensive jihad"

Alhamdulilah I already knew the hadeeth was weak, i was just posting evidence for you so that everyone for themselves could clarify it was weak
In sha Allah people may benifit from both
Sister, read the Seerah of the Prophet s.a.a.w. and also the History of Islam under the Righteous Caliphs. From Salamah Ibn Nufayl Al-Kindi r.a., who said just after the conquest of Mecca:

I was sitting with the Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w., then a man said, 'O Messenger of Allah! The people have insulted their horses (by not using them to fight), and laid down the weapons and they said, 'There is no more jihad. The war has laid down its burden.' So the Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w. said: 'They have lied! Now the time for fighting has arrived! And there will never cease to be a nation from my Ummah fighting upon the Truth. And Allah will deviate the hearts of some people for them, and provide for them through them (spoils of war), until the Hour is established and until the Promise of Allah comes. Good shall remain tied in the forelock of horses until the Day of Resurrection. And it is revealed to me that I will be taken (in death) and not remain, and you will follow up after me as groups, some striking the necks of others. And the foundation of the state of the believers is in Ash-Sham.' " Sahih Hadith narrated by An-Nasai'i and others

The Messenger of Allah said: "There will not cease to exist from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They will not be harmed by those who oppose them or those who abandon them." (Bukhari and Muslim)
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muslimah_B
05-19-2016, 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Sister, read the Seerah of the Prophet s.a.a.w. and also the History of Islam under the Righteous Caliphs. From Salamah Ibn Nufayl Al-Kindi r.a., who said just after the conquest of Mecca:

I was sitting with the Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w., then a man said, 'O Messenger of Allah! The people have insulted their horses (by not using them to fight), and laid down the weapons and they said, 'There is no more jihad. The war has laid down its burden.' So the Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w. said: 'They have lied! Now the time for fighting has arrived! And there will never cease to be a nation from my Ummah fighting upon the Truth. And Allah will deviate the hearts of some people for them, and provide for them through them (spoils of war), until the Hour is established and until the Promise of Allah comes. Good shall remain tied in the forelock of horses until the Day of Resurrection. And it is revealed to me that I will be taken (in death) and not remain, and you will follow up after me as groups, some striking the necks of others. And the foundation of the state of the believers is in Ash-Sham.' " Sahih Hadith narrated by An-Nasai'i and others

The Messenger of Allah said: "There will not cease to exist from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They will not be harmed by those who oppose them or those who abandon them." (Bukhari and Muslim)
Alhamdulilah, one of my classes was covering the seerah but i missed quite a few classes so maybe i missed when the wars where talked about..
so in sha Allah will have to read "the sealed nector"
Can you recommend any other good books that cover this topic or would sealed nector cover it in sha Allah
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Misbah0411
05-19-2016, 01:44 AM
The best modern day Seerah to me is, "The Noble Prophet" by Dr. Ali Muhammad As-Sallabee 3 Volumes over 2000 pages of authentic seerah with lessons and morals. Here is the link:

http://dar-us-salam.com/english/biog...3-vol-set.html

Also, the Seerah in audio version by Imam Al-Alawki Here is the link:

http://www.kalamullah.com/anwar-alawlaki.html
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muslimah_B
05-19-2016, 01:52 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
The best modern day Seerah to me is, "The Noble Prophet" by Dr. Ali Muhammad As-Sallabee 3 Volumes over 2000 pages of authentic seerah with lessons and morals. Here is the link:

http://dar-us-salam.com/english/biog...3-vol-set.html

Also, the Seerah in audio version by Imam Al-Alawki Here is the link:

http://www.kalamullah.com/anwar-alawlaki.html
Jazakallahu khairn brother
I will have a look tomorrow in sha Allah
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Eric H
05-19-2016, 06:18 AM
Greetings and peace be with you muslimah_B;

When they attack you to harm or kill you or your family or another believe.. you defend yourself or them (no you do not be kind, im sure you wouldnt be kind to a seriel killer trying to kill you)
But would this be any different if another Muslim was trying to kill you or your family, would you treat an aggressive Muslim differently to an aggressive non-Muslim? Would you be kind to this violent Muslim and take him as a friend?

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
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Bhabha
05-19-2016, 06:37 AM
I think the verses in the Quran that talked about no contact with the non believer were for a specific context, such as when there were disputes and problems that would make a situation dangerous if there were contact in the first place?

Or... Am I wrong lol and since the Muslims at that time were small and felt persecuted, these verses were meant to be for a specific context.

If you feel yourself persecuted right now, avoid contact with that person in order to avoid disputes it's pretty simple. If you have someone trying to harm you, you protect yourself. Etc.

Moreover I think that the Muslims were offered refuge by a Christian king, running away from tribes in former Saudi Arabia right now. Moreover a "Muslim" that is being aggressive towards another Muslim, is no longer actually following Islam, he is considered a kuffar, because his actions go against the teachings of Islam and he is not respecting his brothers and sisters in Islam and if he attacks a people that are not causing harm to him, he is also inflicting harm to people and being cruel.
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abumuslim82
05-19-2016, 07:47 AM
Originally Posted by YahyaIbnSelam
He didn't kill the population. He surrendered the city and captured it. This is recorded in many history and fiqh books. For example Siyar al-Kabir by Imam Muhammad (rh)
Salaam bro,

They did fight the people of taif after the conquest of Makkah, Rasulullah SAW did attack the town of taif, AFTER the people of that area ambushed Rasulullah SAW and the Sahabah r.a.

ALLAHU A'LAM
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abumuslim82
05-19-2016, 08:00 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

Islam is simple.

Don't harm anyone that doesn't harm you. Don't fight anyone that's not fighting you.
Help individuals that need to be helped (regardless of religion).
Be kind to everyone, but don't be so close to a disbeliever that they are able to sway you and influence you away from your deen, or take enemies of Islam as friends.

Concentrate on jihadul nafs more because this is what will benefit you right now. You're not in a state where you have to fight anyone physically so you can learn about that for the sake of expanding your knowledge, but otherwise it's not something you will need right now. The different types of jihad have different rulings, so you'll have to learn about each of those separately.
So how does Islam spread without Qitaal ?

Yes, jihadun nafs is there for every second of our lives, being on the battlefield is the greatest form of jihadun nafs
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 08:29 AM
Explain offensive Jihad. Does it mean that the Islamic State invades countries and kill the men? i don't think so.
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abumuslim82
05-19-2016, 08:48 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I wish guns were allowed in the UK. If they put their hands on us we could gun en down, but not to kill them. Just shoot them where it hurts and watch as they roll around screaming in pain :raging: ;D That will teach you for messing with the muslimahs!
That's the way to think sis, a muslim should be prepared, especially in this golden era we are living in
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~ Sabr ~
05-19-2016, 09:15 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
but ask your local imam what he thinks, go to conferences in your country where highly qualified scholars talk. The Quran and hadiths are not easy to understand and we have to know the context of the verse
Originally Posted by noraina
I think you should ask a scholar, though, inshaAllah. These are quite intense questions, which are really dependant on the type of context and conditions someone with knowledge would understand better. :)
This.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 09:24 AM
I agree @~ Sabr ~

Cuz even if you guys explained to me, I'd still have questions.. and around it goes. I've soo many questions about some ayats too.
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muslimah_B
05-19-2016, 09:36 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you muslimah_B;



But would this be any different if another Muslim was trying to kill you or your family, would you treat an aggressive Muslim differently to an aggressive non-Muslim? Would you be kind to this violent Muslim and take him as a friend?

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
Hi Eric

Yes it does mean for a believer aswell, it goes for anyone or anything (human, animal) if you are fearing for your life or that of your families then you are allowed to defend yourself, of course killing should be the very last option...
But ofcorse we shouldn't wish to be in the situation of killing a fellow muslim (or anyone for that matter) as it is a major sin in islam (to kill another muslim), but hence if you have absolutely no choice then Allah is all mercifull & forgiving
Hope that clears it up for you [emoji4]
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Misbah0411
05-19-2016, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Explain offensive Jihad. Does it mean that the Islamic State invades countries and kill the men? i don't think so.
Offensive Jihad as understood by the Sahaba means making the Law of Allah superior on the whole earth. Once the Arabian Peninsula was under the Islamic State, they would thrust outwards towards Persia ans ash-Sham with an army. When they confronted the army of Khalid bin Waleed, the sword of Allah, he would give them 3 choices. Embrace Islam, pay the jizyah to live under the protection of the State, or fight. They had up to 3 days to make up their minds. He would also finish his statement with a intimidating threat: "Know we are a people who love death as much as you love life". If the disbelievers wanted to fight, they would be defeated and then it would be up to the Amir what to do with the prisoners, but killing them is permissible. And this is sanctioned by Allah in the Quran when the Prophet decided to allow the prisoners of Badr to live though Allah wanted that the prisoners should be killed agreeing with the suggestion of Umar ibn Al-Khattab.

It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. (8:67)

One of the problems of the Ummah today is that we don't hear the things we need to know in the Friday Khutbah. Very few scholars and Imams talk about the concept of Wala and Bara, the different types of Jihad, the obligation to live under Shariah, hijrah, hududd and so forth. We have a defeatist mentality from the subjugation of the disbelievers and living in their societies. The role of the religious leaders is for them to tell us what we need to know and not what we want to hear. Willful ignorance is not going to help us on the Day of Judgement. What is willful ignorance? Here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Willful_ignorance This sums up the state of some Muslims.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 11:08 AM
Alhamdulillah, I know the context of the ayat (sort of)

But assuming that the prisoners of war are women and children, how is it just to kill them? IF they are combatants, I understand.
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Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Alhamdulillah, I know the context of the ayat (sort of)

But assuming that the prisoners of war are women and children, how is it just to kill them? IF they are combatants, I understand.
The women and children are not killed.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
The women and children are not killed.
Phew lol. So what do we do with the women and children?

And I don't understand the ayat completely. So Allah SWT says to it is better not to give the prisoners of war to the enemies for a ransom (money)? But to kill them?
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~ Sabr ~
05-19-2016, 12:11 PM
Seriously, stop. None of us are scholars. PM one of the scholars on the forum.
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Phew lol. So what do we do with the women and children?

And I don't understand the ayat completely. So Allah SWT says to it is better not to give the prisoners of war to the enemies for a ransom (money)? But to kill them?
Women and children can NEVER be killed unless they are directly fighting against you. If a woman and a child are charging at you with their guns, yes obviously you can shoot to kill them.

To be honest bro you're 17 years old, like me. You're from one of the most stable democratic countries on the planet. Focus on school, focus on maturing, focus on living your life a little. Then when you're 25 or 30 and you have a much better understanding of jihad and Islam, then perhaps you can make an informed decision to go and do jihad to free the syrian people.

Rushing off to kill people at 17 because someone on the internet said so is probably the most ridiculous thing you could do.

My suggestion? Study Islam for yourself, professionally and make an educated informed decision. It seems like you're just lazy, I mean what are you even studying at school? Computers? Why not Islam? Cmon bro... learn Islam from educated scholars and then make your decision. This is ludicrous that you're so fixated on this topic. It's like you can't wait to find the slightest bit of evidence to kill someone...

If you REALLY want to be involved in jihad then donate food packets and aid parcels to the syrian people. Your country accepts refugees I am sure, go and volunteer at a centre and help them. Sigh.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Women and children can NEVER be killed unless they are directly fighting against you. If a woman and a child are charging at you with their guns, yes obviously you can shoot to kill them.

To be honest bro you're 17 years old, like me. You're from one of the most stable democratic countries on the planet. Focus on school, focus on maturing, focus on living your life a little. Then when you're 25 or 30 and you have a much better understanding of jihad and Islam, then perhaps you can make an informed decision to go and do jihad to free the syrian people.

Rushing off to kill people at 17 because someone on the internet said so is probably the most ridiculous thing you could do.

My suggestion? Study Islam for yourself, professionally and make an educated informed decision. It seems like you're just lazy, I mean what are you even studying at school? Computers? Why not Islam? Cmon bro... learn Islam from educated scholars and then make your decision. This is ludicrous that you're so fixated on this topic. It's like you can't wait to find the slightest bit of evidence to kill someone...

If you REALLY want to be involved in jihad then donate food packets and aid parcels to the syrian people. Your country accepts refugees I am sure, go and volunteer at a centre and help them. Sigh.
Fine, I will stop studying Islam for 8 years, pray 5 times a day, act human. And that is it. I will complete my studies. :P

I will only ask about halal and haram, and that is it. If I am wrong in anything, then may Allah SWT forgive me. Ameen.

JazakAllah khayr.

Ps. I DON'T want to kill people. But I have the impression ISLAM wants me to kill people. Which is not true.

But that is what I feel, after all the bigotry I got from some muslims. I feel Islam wants me to be a murderer, a bigoted person.
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Eric H
05-19-2016, 12:28 PM
Greetings and peace be with you muslimah_B;

Hi Eric

Yes it does mean for a believer aswell, it goes for anyone or anything (human, animal) if you are fearing for your life or that of your families then you are allowed to defend yourself, of course killing should be the very last option...
But ofcorse we shouldn't wish to be in the situation of killing a fellow muslim (or anyone for that matter) as it is a major sin in islam (to kill another muslim), but hence if you have absolutely no choice then Allah is all mercifull & forgiving
Hope that clears it up for you [emoji4]
Thanks for your reply, that was helpful.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
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Eric H
05-19-2016, 12:33 PM
Greetings and peace be with you EgyptPrincess;

If you REALLY want to be involved in jihad then donate food packets and aid parcels to the syrian people. Your country accepts refugees I am sure, go and volunteer at a centre and help them.
I think this is the best advice so far, you can also study and pray as well.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Fine, I will stop studying Islam for 8 years, pray 5 times a day, act human. And that is it. I will complete my studies. :P

I will only ask about halal and haram, and that is it. If I am wrong in anything, then may Allah SWT forgive me. Ameen.

JazakAllah khayr.

Ps. I DON'T want to kill people. But I have the impression ISLAM wants me to kill people. Which is not true.

But that is what I feel, after all the bigotry I got from some muslims.
Brother I never told you to stop studying Islam please don't put words in my mouth. I told you to drop this Jihad issue until you have a better understanding of Islam. Of course learn Islam while you study at school but asking questions on an internet forum is not studying Islam. Studying Islam is going to university and learning under scholars or at least professors who have infinitely more knowledge than you and everyone on this forum. Your desire to learn is admirable but you're going about it the wrong way.

I am going to study biochemisty at university, you think I will ever learn just from asking question on a forum and watching youtube videos? No.. I need to be taught from professionals. Learning Islam is not like learning to bake a cake. You need years and years of education from knowledgable people.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Brother I never told you to stop studying Islam please don't put words in my mouth. I told you to drop this Jihad issue until you have a better understanding of Islam. Of course learn Islam while you study at school but asking questions on an internet forum is not studying Islam. Studying Islam is going to university and learning under scholars or at least professors who have infinitely more knowledge than you and everyone on this forum. Your desire to learn is admirable but you're going about it the wrong way.

I am going to study biochemisty at university, you think I will ever learn just from asking question on a forum and watching youtube videos? No.. I need to be taught from professionals. Learning Islam is not like learning to bake a cake. You need years and years of education from knowledgable people.
I got it, I can't study Islam in that case. I will have to wait till I am out of all this studying in college and stuff. That is my decision.

I know you didn't say that. And I got it, if you want to study physics and become a scientist you don't go on a forum and ask laymen lol.
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Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by ~ Sabr ~
Seriously, stop. None of us are scholars. PM one of the scholars on the forum.
Yo this is some sound advice for reals, Mashallah!

also am I at 25 posts yet? Still not a full member lol
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abumuslim82
05-19-2016, 01:00 PM
@ the people who are a means of blocking my posts, LOL, thanks for doing that, helps me make more dua,

oh ALLAH, please give the ummah of YOUR Habib SAW victory, ameen ameen ameen.

Islam is simple, LOL, u can't defeat ALLAH. Naoothubillah
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I got it, I can't study Islam in that case. I will have to wait till I am out of all this studying in college and stuff.
You can't go to Saturday or Sunday classes? Surely there is an Islamic school near you where you can do this. I'm not sure about where you are from but in London they're dotted all over the place.

Go to you imam and ask him politely if it's ok for him to spend 1 hour a week teaching you about Islam, in exchange you'll help sweep and clean the masjid. I'm not saying it's impossible to learn Islam without going to university but learn from good quality sources. I've not done much digging around but perhaps you can learn online in your spare time and slowly build up your knowledge.

http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com/founder.php

Always do research into the people you're learning from. Google the scholars names and the website to ensure the information you're getting from them is reliable and that they're qualified to teach. Best of luck brother :)
Reply

abumuslim82
05-19-2016, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Women and children can NEVER be killed unless they are directly fighting against you. If a woman and a child are charging at you with their guns, yes obviously you can shoot to kill them.

To be honest bro you're 17 years old, like me. You're from one of the most stable democratic countries on the planet. Focus on school, focus on maturing, focus on living your life a little. Then when you're 25 or 30 and you have a much better understanding of jihad and Islam, then perhaps you can make an informed decision to go and do jihad to free the syrian people.

Rushing off to kill people at 17 because someone on the internet said so is probably the most ridiculous thing you could do.

My suggestion? Study Islam for yourself, professionally and make an educated informed decision. It seems like you're just lazy, I mean what are you even studying at school? Computers? Why not Islam? Cmon bro... learn Islam from educated scholars and then make your decision. This is ludicrous that you're so fixated on this topic. It's like you can't wait to find the slightest bit of evidence to kill someone...

If you REALLY want to be involved in jihad then donate food packets and aid parcels to the syrian people. Your country accepts refugees I am sure, go and volunteer at a centre and help them. Sigh.
salaam,

ur last paragraph is part of the jihad. Wealth and body, those that cannot make it to the battlefield, it is fard al ayn to help with our wealth.
Reply

Serinity
05-19-2016, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You can't go to Saturday or Sunday classes? Surely there is an Islamic school near you where you can do this. I'm not sure about where you are from but in London they're dotted all over the place.

Go to you imam and ask him politely if it's ok for him to spend 1 hour a week teaching you about Islam, in exchange you'll help sweep and clean the masjid. I'm not saying it's impossible to learn Islam without going to university but learn from good quality sources. I've not done much digging around but perhaps you can learn online in your spare time and slowly build up your knowledge.

http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com/founder.php

Always do research into the people you're learning from. Google the scholars names and the website to ensure the information you're getting from them is reliable and that they're qualified to teach. Best of luck brother :)
Ok, I will take it easy. Little by little. Little knowledge at a time. Nice, steady, and smooth. I will first start by searching for a nice teacher with humor and knowledge. :P

Sorry sister if I have ever been harsh, I've had some bad days.

I realise I may have been a bit harsh, but I only wanted to show the truth. But perhaps I was the one who was near Jahannam and the pit the most. I now realise how important good character is, whilst showing the deen. And that harshness while trying to show the deen won't show the essence of deen..

I may have been harsh, rude, insensitive, etc. But please forgive me.
May Allah SWT reward you, and guide us all. Ameen.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Ok, I will take it easy. Little by little. Little knowledge at a time. Nice, steady, and smooth. I will first start by searching for a nice teacher with humor and knowledge. :P

Sorry sister if I have ever been harsh, I've had some bad days.

I realise I may have been a bit harsh, but I only wanted to show the truth. But perhaps I was the one who was near Jahannam and the pit the most. I now realise how important good character is, whilst showing the deen. And that harshness while trying to show the deen won't show the essence of deen..

I may have been harsh, rude, insensitive, etc. But please forgive me.
May Allah SWT reward you, and guide us all. Ameen.
May Allah continue to guide us all and ensure we stay on the correct path, ameen.
Reply

Abz2000
05-19-2016, 03:10 PM
Depends on your situation and surrounding factors really.

When you rub a piece of metal on a piece of concrete or vice versa both will usually rub off a little on the other.
however, the stronger component is likely to depreciate less than the softer one, therefore, it is better to be in a position of strong faith and to be pushing it vigorously than to be in a position where the corrupt have thw authority and try to hide from the people even the weakest expression of Islam via harassment and intimidation, in such a situation of complete weakness, the dominant corruption is likely to wear off less from any clashes or scrapes and do damage to those in the weaker position.

The situation of the young man taking a weak kafir pensioners shopping home or giving a helping hand is quite different from the young man who finds his homeland unlawfully invaded based upon total falsehood and seeing his loved ones killed for no reason other than that they stand for the truth.
yet, we live in a globalized world where it's not too difficult to move to places where you can at least try to make an effort at doing what is right ..... sort of..... unless some corrupt and murderous international regime pays your prime minister loads of money to keep the corrupt status quo running.......then some of us will come full circle and lose that naive soft heartedness at the wrong place at the wrong time - and will consciously cause havoc in the lands where kufr of Allah is dominant in the hearts and in the public meeting places.

Edit:
Or maybe some or many will continue to try solemnly and peacefully to walk upon the true path despite all the internal conflict confusion and risk of falling apart themselves, and maybe some of it will bear fruit.....God knows best, i'm no angel myself but at least i know that Islam is the correct path and also certainly know that we would have a disciplined, dignified, successful, cohesive and sane society if we could walk that path together.

Sometimes sins seem so normal when it's become acceptable in society, especially if certain corrupt individuals have made a concerted effort to remove any trace of purity or devotion to God from public display, such as the public praying ban in france despite huge congregations and spilling mosques, and anti-veil and hijab efforts.

Then they wonder why there are so many french immigrant islamic state fighters in contrast to neighbouring countries?
I'm not surprised one bit.
Reply

Serinity
05-19-2016, 04:04 PM
Kufr of Allah SWT? Really ?

Anyway, I will learn about Jihad in a few years in shaa' Allah.
Reply

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