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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 03:18 PM
I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?
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Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Don't tell me what I am and are not. Who do you think you are? It is for Allah to decide. Making takfir on people is a serious thing. Sit down kid.
Narrated Umar bin Al Khattab: “People were (sometimes) judged by the revealing of a Divine Inspiration during the lifetime of Allaah's Apostle صلى الله عليه وسلم but now there is no longer any more (new revelation). Now we judge you by the deeds you practice publicly, so we will trust and favor the one who does good deeds in front of us, and we will not call him to account about what he is really doing in secret, for Allaah will judge him for that; but we will not trust or believe the one who presents to us with an evil deed even if he claims that his intentions were good.

[Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 3 Book of Witnesses, Hadeeth # 809]

Fear Allah. It is only a reminder that what you claim you're doing is out of the fold of Islam.

You first start off by taking out your emotion and believe your points are right but you haven't given any Islamic proof obliterating my argument.

Second, you claimed you're proud to follow a flag which was never revealed by Allah and contradicts the teachings of Islam( that nationalism is forbidden) yet you clearly say you support and are proudly following that flag. According to Islam, it means you're out of the fold of Islam.

Third, you then say you can't judge me but you failed to realize that Umar Ibn Khattab's statement had refuted your ideological belief.

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Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:30 PM
A video to the patriotic ''muslims'':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68407n74AxA
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Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?
Jubair ibn Mut’im reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “He is not one of us who calls to tribalism. He is not one of us who fights for the sake of tribalism. He is not one of us who dies following the way of tribalism.”

Source: Sunan Abu Dawud 5102

Repent or live in misery.
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
Second, you claimed you're proud to follow a flag
You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.
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Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.
You are in complete delusion and disapproval. The truth hurts but it must be spoken.

You are in denial. It's clear but I have conveyed the message. Either as a Muslim accept it or take my advice personal and say to mind my own business. The corruption of the ummah is my business.

It is people like you who ruin the clear image of Islam and the divine truth. Continue to follow the deceptive image you have of Islam but the few who follow the haqq will remain and Islam will be there until the day of judgement.

May Allah guide us.
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Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.
That is part of tribalism (loving the country).

The only sincere advice I have for you ukhti, is to remain silent on Islamic topics.

Having no knowledge of such and such topics would ruin your akhirah and the rewards which you've gained in the dunya.

On top of that, people would continuously lecture you and throw you off easily because the ignorance you have dwelled in your life and this would make you a greater jahil.

Take heed

Blending in as a Muslim but shamelessly showing off your country isn't going to change the state of you or the state of the Ummah. If you want to speak the truth and the message which the Prophet SAW had been given, then seek knowledge.

Gaining knowledge would make you lose doubts
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:14 PM
How can you be saying mind your own business when you go on an Islamic Forum to discuss what you are thinking? You are wanting other people's views on this, and then you say mind your own business? Please don't act so thick and emotional. Be calm.
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
That is part of tribalism (loving the country).

The only sincere advice I have for you ukhti, is to remain silent on Islamic topics.

Having no knowledge of such and such topics would ruin your akhirah and the rewards which you've gained in the dunya.

On top of that, people would continuously lecture you and throw you off easily because the ignorance you have dwelled in your life and this would make you a greater jahil.

Take heed

Blending in as a Muslim but shamelessly showing off your country isn't going to change the state of you or the state of the Ummah. If you want to speak the truth and the message which the Prophet SAW had been given, then seek knowledge.

Gaining knowledge would make you lose doubts
Reply

BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:18 PM
How can you be saying mind your own business when you go on an Islamic Forum to discuss what you are thinking? You are wanting other people's views on this, and then you say mind your own business? Please don't act so thick and emotional. Be calm.

Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You misunderstanding the meaning of a flag. I absolutely love Egypt as a country, the food, the sights, some of the people, the weather, the history. It all builds into a beautiful country. The same with the UK. The food is nice, the cities are stunning, the education is incredible, the health service is very good. I do not "follow" anyone or anything other than Allah swt and the prophet swt. I make mistakes just like any human and I am learning as I go.

Just because I love a country it does not mean I love the people who run it. Mind your own business, what I think or believe is between me and Allah swt it is not for your concern.

Indeed Allah swt knows my intentions and my heart infinitely more than you.
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by BlackFlags
How can you be saying mind your own business when you go on an Islamic Forum to discuss what you are thinking? You are wanting other people's views on this, and then you say mind your own business? Please don't act so thick and emotional. Be calm.
He is judging me based on what he thinks I believe. What I believe is of none of his or your concern, there I say "mind your own business" but of course I am open to discussion and if I do something wrong I fully expect someone to tell me so. I actually like it when someone tells me I'm doing something wrong, because then when I fix it, I become a better Muslim. What I don't like is people presuming they know anything about me or what my intentions are and calling me a kufr.
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:22 PM
you go

Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
That is part of tribalism (loving the country).

The only sincere advice I have for you ukhti, is to remain silent on Islamic topics.

Having no knowledge of such and such topics would ruin your akhirah and the rewards which you've gained in the dunya.

On top of that, people would continuously lecture you and throw you off easily because the ignorance you have dwelled in your life and this would make you a greater jahil.

Take heed

Blending in as a Muslim but shamelessly showing off your country isn't going to change the state of you or the state of the Ummah. If you want to speak the truth and the message which the Prophet SAW had been given, then seek knowledge.

Gaining knowledge would make you lose doubts
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
He is judging me based on what he thinks I believe. What I believe is of none of his or your concern, there I say "mind your own business" but of course I am open to discussion and if I do something wrong I fully expect someone to tell me so. I actually like it when someone tells me I'm doing something wrong, because then when I fix it, I become a better Muslim. What I don't like is people presuming they know anything about me or what my intentions are and calling me a kufr.
It is our concern. If you are part of Islam, you are part of the ummah.
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:29 PM
Lol it doesn't seem like it now that when someone tells you you're doing something wrong, you like it. You are getting emotional. It is kafir, not kufr. As Umar Ibn Farooq said, learn your deen, we all have learning to do. Don't get upset. Drink some water, lie down.

Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
He is judging me based on what he thinks I believe. What I believe is of none of his or your concern, there I say "mind your own business" but of course I am open to discussion and if I do something wrong I fully expect someone to tell me so. I actually like it when someone tells me I'm doing something wrong, because then when I fix it, I become a better Muslim. What I don't like is people presuming they know anything about me or what my intentions are and calling me a kufr.
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by BlackFlags
Don't get upset. Drink some water, lie down.
Don't patronise me lol. I am learning about Islam and inshallah over time my knowledge will expand and I will become a better Muslim. We're all striving to better ourselves aren't we?
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:35 PM
It was never my intention to patronise you. I am just saying to drink some water and lie down because that is one way to calm ourselves down. Yes Inshallah, we all strive to be better version of ourselves.
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Don't patronise me lol. I am learning about Islam and inshallah over time my knowledge will expand and I will become a better Muslim. We're all striving to better ourselves aren't we?
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*charisma*
05-19-2016, 04:42 PM
Assalamu Alaikum


Islamically, we shouldn't be nationalistic, tribalistic, or patriotic because it divides us as a people and places pride in us where pride is considered one of the worst attributes. There's no problem in loving a particular country for whatever reason, but we should also want for one another what we'd want for ourselves, so when we feel "proud" to be from somewhere it alienates other groups. For example when the Paris attacks happened, all of the West stood up against it, but when Syria was attacked soon thereafter, there was nothing for them..why? because of nationalism.


I've traveled to a lot of countries and to be honest, there's something beautiful in each one of them that I can't even say I prefer being from one country over another. It's natural to be connected to the place we come from, but we have to be sensible about not allowing our identity to be consumed by dividing ourselves from the ummah through nationalism.

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ht=nationalism
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by BlackFlags
It was never my intention to patronise you. I am just saying to drink some water and lie down because that is one way to calm ourselves down. Yes Inshallah, we all strive to be better version of ourselves.
When I am angry or upset, I'll take your advice and try that :)
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sister herb
05-19-2016, 04:47 PM
This is confusing discussion. Can I too love my country if I promise to drink some water and lie down?

:?
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:48 PM
Know your limits and be careful.

Originally Posted by sister herb
This is confusing discussion. Can I too love my country if I promise to drink some water and lie down?

:?
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 04:49 PM
:salam:

I think it is ok to like your country. As long as it doesn't go over in divisions and hatred between us. Our differences should strengthen us, not divide us. Don't fight for nationalism. Idk where the problem here is :hmm:
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Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

I think it is ok to like your country. As long as it doesn't go over in divisions and hatred between us. Our differences should strengthen us, not divide us. Don't fight for nationalism. Idk where the problem here is :hmm:
There are limits
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sister herb
05-19-2016, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by BlackFlags
Know your limits and be careful.
Limits?
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Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 04:52 PM
I'm just going to tell you now "patriotism" is one of those buzz words that might set some people off here.
It is because the connotation with "patriotism" may include attachment/support for a nation's government or a some people may assume you may have of superiority of that particular nation over other nations.
Just because you said "patriotism"

I understand though, that is not what you meant at all.

Of course it is natural for a person to feel a special affinity or love for their homeland, and for the foods and clothes they grew up with and whatever aspects of their culture do not contradict the rules of Islam.

As long as you don't feel you are superior to any other nation, and as long as you're not expressing a particular attachment to any particular government and their policies, and as long as you care more for your Islamic identity more so than your cultural identity, then it is fine to like a particular food or clothing styles or language or whatever it is from your tribe,

(but at the end of the day the place that we put the limit is at:
we aren't "tribalistic" so we don't make assumptions that any Muslim of one country is better than that of another.)

We have personal tastes and those tastes will naturally coincide with enjoying the halal memories and culture of our homelands.
In that respect there is nothing wrong with you enjoying aspects of your Egyptian/British heritage.
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:53 PM
there are limits






you can love the traditions and the foods






but when you love a country for the sake of politics and it's nationalistic background






where u run after that flag






thats when something goes wrong






and sadly thats majority of the cases






in our times










Chat Conve

I think it is ok to like your country. As long as it doesn't go over in divisions and hatred between us. Our differences should strengthen us, not divide us. Don't fight for nationalism. Idk where the problem here is :hmm:[/QUOTE]
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Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
I'm just going to tell you now "patriotism" is one of those buzz words that might set some people off here.
It is because the connotation with "patriotism" may include attachment/support for a nation's government or a some people may assume you may have of superiority of that particular nation over other nations.
Just because you said "patriotism"

I understand though, that is not what you meant at all.

Of course it is natural for a person to feel a special affinity or love for their homeland, and for the foods and clothes they grew up with and whatever aspects of their culture do not contradict the rules of Islam.

As long as you don't feel you are superior to any other nation, and as long as you're not expressing a particular attachment to any particular government and their policies, and as long as you care more for your Islamic identity more so than your cultural identity, then it is fine to like a particular food or clothing styles or language or whatever it is from your tribe,

(but at the end of the day the place that we put the limit is at:
we aren't "tribalistic" so we don't make assumptions that any Muslim of one country is better than that of another.)

We have personal tastes and those tastes will naturally coincide with enjoying the halal memories and culture of our homelands.
In that respect there is nothing wrong with you enjoying aspects of your Egyptian/British heritage.
:jz:

Good posts from a good akh.
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 04:57 PM
Refer to Cpt. America's post, he has said it well.

Originally Posted by sister herb
Limits?
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sister herb
05-19-2016, 04:59 PM
Of course everything has limits, just same if it´s loving your country or drinking water. I just wonder why here the first idea is so often negative if someone writes that he/she loves his/hers country. It doesn´t always mean that we love politicians or the policy.

Well, in many times people usually deny to love any of them at all.

Kind of thinking I would call as generalization and we have to remember the limits with it too so that it doesn´t go too far.
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Bhabha
05-19-2016, 05:00 PM
I'm not patriotic lol.
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BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 05:01 PM
Just to make things clear really. Enjoy the good forbid the evil?

Originally Posted by sister herb
Of course everything has limits, just same if it´s loving your country or drinking water. I just wonder why here the first idea is so often negative if someone writes that he/she loves his/hers country. It doesn´t always mean that we love politicians or the policy.

Well, in many times people usually deny to love any of them at all.

Kind of thinking I would call as generalization and we have to remember the limits with it too so that it doesn´t go too far.
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sister herb
05-19-2016, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?
Of course you can (as long as you remember your limits...). ;D I too wouldn´t want to be anything else than what I am (a Finnish) altought some my Palestinian friends have told that of their mind I am more as Palestinian than Finnish but it´s the other story. I don´t see why I should shame what I am (I mean Finnish). Who it would help as I can´t change it?

Of course I am proud to be Muslim too (it´s better to add before someone pointed this out).
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 05:26 PM
I don't care what country someone is from. In a nutshell do I like the UK better than Serbia or Greenland? Well I've never been but I could almost guarantee that I prefer the UK to Serbia, why? Because Seriba is cold and I hate cold places. I like warmth and sunshine. I also like fish and chips and roast dinners, I also like the British education system and the national health system. I like being able to walk down the street and not feel like I will be attacked or robbed. I like the cities like London and I can't get enough of shopping in London :shade:

Now do I favour a person based on their ethnicity? Absolutely not, this is racist. Do I favour a British or Egyptian muslim over a Serbian or Danish muslim? Absolutely not. The notion that one cannot like or "love" their country is absurd. Some countries just are more pleasant than others. That doesn't mean the people are more pleasant, I've met some truly disgusting people in the UK. Vile animals.

These days people get the wrong impression of loving your heritage / homeland. Go move to the arctic circle and tell me you don't prefer your homeland.
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sister herb
05-19-2016, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Go move to the arctic circle and tell me you don't prefer your homeland.
You can find an arctic circle from my homeland. ;D

(But I understood that was just only as a parable.)
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Misbah0411
05-19-2016, 07:19 PM
Patriotism for a secular kufr nation won't help you on the Day of Judgement. Tribalism was one of the things the Prophet s.a.a.w. had to abolish in the deep tribal society of Arabia. This is why he made the people of Medina take in the emigrants of Mecca following the migration to Medina. Brotherhood in Islam comes before tribe, nation, ethnicity, even family if they are not Muslim. It is part of Wala and Bara.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 08:24 PM
It'd be wrong for you to judge people based on their ethnicity or tribe or nation, etc. But if you like your country better than mine, or whatever. Would I hate you? Absolutely not. we all have our tastes in terms of places etc. And I know you wouldn't judge people based on their preferences (as long as it doesn't go against Islam) I am sure you know this, as mentioned in your post.

Differences should strengthen us, not divide us. It is cool to like a place better than the other, based on geography etc. But to prefer any law above The Law of Allah SWT is kufr akbar. May Allah SWT protect us from that. Ameen.

we should rejoice in our differences, and strengthen our bonds. you like pizza without ketchup? I like pizza with ketchup. No problemo.
Allahu alam.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I don't care what country someone is from. In a nutshell do I like the UK better than Serbia or Greenland? Well I've never been but I could almost guarantee that I prefer the UK to Serbia, why? Because Seriba is cold and I hate cold places. I like warmth and sunshine. I also like fish and chips and roast dinners, I also like the British education system and the national health system. I like being able to walk down the street and not feel like I will be attacked or robbed. I like the cities like London and I can't get enough of shopping in London :shade:

Now do I favour a person based on their ethnicity? Absolutely not, this is racist. Do I favour a British or Egyptian muslim over a Serbian or Danish muslim? Absolutely not. The notion that one cannot like or "love" their country is absurd. Some countries just are more pleasant than others. That doesn't mean the people are more pleasant, I've met some truly disgusting people in the UK. Vile animals.

These days people get the wrong impression of loving your heritage / homeland. Go move to the arctic circle and tell me you don't prefer your homeland.
Yo. Serbia is very warm, I'd assume in the summer, and very cold in the winter. If at all, UK is more rainy and cold than Serbia, I'd assume.
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Yo. Serbia is very warm, I'd assume in the summer, and very cold in the winter. If at all, UK is more rainy and cold than Serbia, I'd assume.
To be honest when it comes to geography I'm pretty stupid. I thought Serbia was a frozen wasteland :embarrass

One of the things I hate about the UK is the rain... nothing worse then getting soaked wet through lol.
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Serinity
05-19-2016, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
To be honest when it comes to geography I'm pretty stupid. I thought Serbia was a frozen wasteland :embarrass

One of the things I hate about the UK is the rain... nothing worse then getting soaked wet through lol.
it is pretty gorgeous warm, I'd assume. In the summer it can reach 38 or less. Allahu alam
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s.ali123
05-19-2016, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?
First of all I am also proud of being Pakistani, and that does not make me better or worse Muslim. A muslim can be a very good muslim and still be patriotic towards country, as long as it does not make us divide into groups. Like I see many arabs being so much proud of maps what non muslims drawn after world wars, that they start to hate people from other areas. If being patriotic means that you consider yourself better than others, and want to divide, then that kind of thinking is definitely wrong and not allowed.

When I read your post, I got the understanding that by patriotic you only mean loving the country, and not division. And may be other understood it in different manner.

When the nationality does not make you divide, then there is no harm in identifying yourself belonging to some place, as even the Prophet praised some people based on the area they belonged to... Like he praised people of Faris in a hadith. Even Quran calls people as muhajir and ansaar. But these titles did not divide them, so it was allowed. But when on a occasion there was a dispute between muslims due to munafiqeen, and people from muhajir called muhajir and ansar called on ansar, Prophet called it as remaining attributes of Jahiliyya. That time it caused division, so it was not allowed.

So if the by belonging to a country you just mean identification, and does not cause division, there is no harm in it. But if it causes division, then it is not allowed. Like today some arab from one country call names of people from other countries.
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s.ali123
05-19-2016, 09:36 PM
I find the attitude of some Muslims very judgemental here on this forum. I don't want to offend anyone, but this kind of attitude of pointing at someone and start criticizing them directly, as if we ourselves are true muslims, is totally unislamic.
I also read a post above saying another person to not give opinions or talk about Islamic teachings without knowledge. If that is the case, then what is the purpose of a forum! If she will not tell what she understands from some verse or hadith, how will she learn!
Please be more accepting and open minded, and stop criticizing others. You want to know bid3a, this attitude itself is a bid3a.
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s.ali123
05-19-2016, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?
About cultural identity and what it means to be a Muslim in a western society, I think you should listen to Dr. Tariq Ramadan. BTW he is also Egyptian :) born in France I think. You may find some of the topics in series very interesting. Listen and share with us what you learn. We may benefit from it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...dttFQoY8sqt3ZG
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EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by s.ali123
About cultural identity and what it means to be a Muslim in a western society, I think you should listen to Dr. Tariq Ramadan. BTW he is also Egyptian :) born in France I think. You may find some of the topics in series very interesting. Listen and share with us what you learn. We may benefit from it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...dttFQoY8sqt3ZG
Thanks, I'll check him out.
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MuslimInshallah
05-19-2016, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by s.ali123
About cultural identity and what it means to be a Muslim in a western society, I think you should listen to Dr. Tariq Ramadan. BTW he is also Egyptian :) born in France I think. You may find some of the topics in series very interesting. Listen and share with us what you learn. We may benefit from it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...dttFQoY8sqt3ZG
Assalaamu alaikum,

Tariq Ramadan was born and raised in Switzerland. His parents were from Egypt.
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s.ali123
05-19-2016, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum,

Tariq Ramadan was born and raised in Switzerland. His parents were from Egypt.
Oh yeah Switzerland. His parents were on exile from Egypt. I watched his interview on his personal life. He is really amazing Ma shaa Allah. In Cairo he finished Islamic course in 2 years, which usually takes more or less 4 years, and studied for 15 hours a day. And he studied Nietzsche when he was very young. :) lol just extra details [emoji14]
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Zafran
05-20-2016, 12:21 AM
salaam

Loving the place you are born from is natural and normal - its like the loving your family members.

peace.
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ardianto
05-20-2016, 01:11 AM
:sl:

I have learned Islam since long time ago and I never found any reason to say that loving the homeland is haram.

"Asabiyah" actually mean "tribal fanaticism" which refer to attitude "right or wrong, this is my tribe" that very strong among tribes in Rasulullah era, which they easy to attack each other just because little dispute that actually could be solved by dialog.
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Misbah0411
05-20-2016, 01:15 AM
Being Pakistani, Palestinian, Arab or non-Arab, white or black or yellow won't help you on the Day of Judgement. Only those believe and do righteous good deeds will be the successful. Have patriotism for the Ummah of Muhammad s.a.a.w Everything else is a waste of time and could hinder unity.
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LaSorcia
05-20-2016, 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?


My hubby's family is British/Egyptian, too! His grandma could speak 7 languages, including Arabic. Although unfortunately, when she got old, all she recalled of Arabic was bad words.
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EgyptPrincess
05-20-2016, 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Being Pakistani, Palestinian, Arab or non-Arab, white or black or yellow won't help you on the Day of Judgement. Only those believe and do righteous good deeds will be the successful. Have patriotism for the Ummah of Muhammad s.a.a.w Everything else is a waste of time and could hinder unity.
Your money won't help you on judgement day.
Your car won't help you on judgement day.
Your home won't help you on judgement day.
Your education won't help you on judgement day.

Does this mean it's pointless to pursue these things because they're all a waste of time? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't know about you but I enjoy life... I enjoy so many things about life and so many of the things I love are located in the country I live therefore of course I am going to love my country as a consequence.

I always get the feeling that it's the miserable muslims in life that say "everything is pointless, don't pursue anything because it's worthless". Allah put me on this beautiful planet and I'm sure going to enjoy it.

1. Enjoy life, follow the deen and go to Jannah.
2. Feel sorry for yourself, be miserable, pursue nothing, follow the deen and go to Jannah.

Choice is yours.
Reply

noraina
05-20-2016, 09:01 AM
Assalmu alaykum,

To love one's country or to identify with it isn't a bad thing at all. Of course, our primary identity is that of Muslims, alhamdulillah, and this identity comes before anything else, whether it be ethnicity or nationality or occupation or even as a relative or friend...

And so long as you recognise the fact that the beauty of Islam is that it has united us all to be one Ummah, with transcends all divisions of nationality or race or blood, and belonging to a specific country to race doesn't make you superior to anyone else, then to say 'I love my country, or proud to be from it,' wouldn't be against Islam. We are all equal before Allah swt, His slaves and worshippers, and no one is superior or inferior to the other, no skin colour or culture is better or worse than another. It reminds me of this verse from the Qur'an, which says it all alhamdulillah.

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
49:13

So obviously, we are all equal in status, but as long as we don't claim superiority it doesn't mean we can't acknowledge where we are from. I'm proud to be British, I am proud to be of Afghani/Pakistani heritage, it is a part of who I am, and it doesn't effect the way I behave with my friends who are Kurdish or Arab or Malaysian, because we are all Muslims first and foremost alhamdulillah, and the way Islam has united believers, from all cultures and nationalities, under the banner of Tawhid is beautiful.

I could write a lot on this lol, but it'll become an essay and I have revision to do, ;)
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noraina
05-20-2016, 09:08 AM
And about the tribalism thing, obviously we shouldn't take it so far as many of the tribes did in the time of the Prophet (pbuh), and say if it caused us to look down on others who were not related to us by blood, or be in favour of our relatives even if they were in the wrong, then that would be unjust...

However, to feel that special attachment to your relatives is very natural and should be that way. I love my sister and mother and father much more than I love anyone else, after Allah swt and His Prophet (pbuh) it is them I would give priority to - would that be tribalism? I don't think so.
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Serinity
05-20-2016, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Your money won't help you on judgement day.
Your car won't help you on judgement day.
Your home won't help you on judgement day.
Your education won't help you on judgement day.

Does this mean it's pointless to pursue these things because they're all a waste of time? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't know about you but I enjoy life... I enjoy so many things about life and so many of the things I love are located in the country I live therefore of course I am going to love my country as a consequence.

I always get the feeling that it's the miserable muslims in life that say "everything is pointless, don't pursue anything because it's worthless". Allah put me on this beautiful planet and I'm sure going to enjoy it.

1. Enjoy life, follow the deen and go to Jannah.
2. Feel sorry for yourself, be miserable, pursue nothing, follow the deen and go to Jannah.

Choice is yours.
Sis, nothing wrong in being amazed at the artistic creation of Allah SWT. The mountains, the culture (as long as it doens't go against Islam) etc. we should Thank Allah SWT for all this. We should try to be grateful for everything Allah SWT gave us.

It is ok to enjoy life - but know how to do it. If you forget Allah SWT and the deen, then that is being ungrateful. So, yes, do enjoy life - but keep it halal - and do not let it take the time of your prayers and ibadah. And remember, excessive enjoyment isn't good.

Give thanks to Allah SWT for every blessing Allah SWT has given you. for if you were to count the blessings of Allah SWT you would never be able to. Be mindful of Allah SWT. Be grateful. Give whatever you can in charity, give some food to a poor.. etc.

When you look at the sky, sometimes one is compelled to just say SubhanAllah, this is beautiful.

BUT remember the enjoyment of this world is but very little compared to the hereafter - so don't lose sight. The Akhira is better for us, if we but knew.

Every soul will taste death, and you will only be given your [full] compensation on the Day of Resurrection. So he who is drawn away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise has attained [his desire]. And what is the life of this world except the enjoyment of delusion. 3:185

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said any wrong. Ameen.

Allahu alam.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-20-2016, 03:01 PM
Patriotism vs Tribalism... This is basic ingroup and outgroup dynamics.

Ingroup cohesion is a good thing. There is nothing wrong about feeling connected to your fellow citizens and being proud of the community that you have built together. The problem inherent in tribalism comes when Ingroup cohesion turns to negativity at the outgroup. That can mean everything from nationalism (as opposed to patriotism) to racism to misogyny to religious persecution to homophobia, etc.
Reply

ardianto
05-20-2016, 03:10 PM
Look at Makah. Every year Muslims from various countries come there. They love their homelands, but they are willing to perform salah together with Muslims from different nationalities.

And look at other places. Then you can see Muslims who refuse to perform salah with other Muslims just because fiqh difference.

Conclusion: Not nationalism that divide ummah, but group fanaticism.
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