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s.ali123
05-23-2016, 10:06 PM
I know this is strange question. And from what I listened to scholars, the Prophets are mawahid from start, and are saved by Allah to remain on fitra and worshiping of one God. What the one who asked me this wanted some scholarly article or source on this :)
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*charisma*
05-23-2016, 10:31 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

That's a really interesting question lol. Just like you said they've always believed in the oneness of Allah. I guess the stories about them would lead you to the evidence you're looking for?
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Cpt.America
05-24-2016, 02:14 AM
The Prophets never deviated from Tawhid and fitrah as you've mentioned.
Until Allah's messages were revealed to them, they remained in the natural state of being under the best possible beliefs (religion without organization) that were pleasing to Allah, and after the message was revealed to them, the refined and corrected religion was revealed.

So basically, until the message was revealed to a Prophet of Allah, there was no true religion present FOR them to revert to.

I guess a good example would be Ibrahim AS. Ibrahim always believed in One Illah, even though such a religion did not exist anywhere around him. He looked at the religions around him and found them all to be wrong and stuck to his beliefs of One God until Allah revealed the message to him, wherin everything he had already believed was confirmed, and an organized religion with rules, guidelines, laws and codified etiquette was presented which refined the human nature and elevated it by affirming all that is intrinsically good and forbidding all that is harmful to the soul.
The people of Ibrahim AS, of course did not take kindly to this message and promptly began gathering some firewood...
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s.ali123
05-24-2016, 03:23 AM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
The Prophets never deviated from Tawhid and fitrah as you've mentioned.
Until Allah's messages were revealed to them, they remained in the natural state of being under the best possible beliefs (religion without organization) that were pleasing to Allah, and after the message was revealed to them, the refined and corrected religion was revealed.

So basically, until the message was revealed to a Prophet of Allah, there was no true religion present FOR them to revert to.

I guess a good example would be Ibrahim AS. Ibrahim always believed in One Illah, even though such a religion did not exist anywhere around him. He looked at the religions around him and found them all to be wrong and stuck to his beliefs of One God until Allah revealed the message to him, wherin everything he had already believed was confirmed, and an organized religion with rules, guidelines, laws and codified etiquette was presented which refined the human nature and elevated it by affirming all that is intrinsically good and forbidding all that is harmful to the soul.
The people of Ibrahim AS, of course did not take kindly to this message and promptly began gathering some firewood...
Yeah... I agree with you all said above. I understand it the same way. But has the salaf discussed this topic somewhere ? Do you know of any reference. Kindly tag the scholar on this forum. I dont know how to tag them.
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Cpt.America
05-24-2016, 03:29 AM
I was just stating my opinion.
Didn't say if they were technically 'reverts' or not.

I just can't find anything there to 'revert' to though. It seems like tawhid to the message of Allah is a natural progression.
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s.ali123
05-24-2016, 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
I was just stating my opinion.
Didn't say if they were technically 'reverts' or not.

I just can't find anything there to 'revert' to though. It seems like tawhid to the message of Allah is a natural progression.
Yes I was thinking the same, which thing to revert to. But if you look at the life of the Prophet S.A.W. there were still few people in mekka who were jews and christians. Like the cousin of Khadija R.A. who were on tawheed. And also the the rabbi who met the Prophet when he was young on his jouney with his uncle.
Even the practice of secluding oneself in order to ponder, I read in a book of seerah, that in mecca some people belonging to christian and jewish tradition used to seclude themselves in order to worship. Offcourse for all prophets almost this has been the case of seclusion before getting the Prophethood.
But I agree using the word 'revert' is not right as he was not misguided in the first place, in the sense that he never worshiped anyone beside one God.
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azc
05-24-2016, 04:42 AM
As everybody knows that all of us are born as momin but as we grow up we begin to believe in the religion practiced in our family. So in this way a large number of people forget their true religion but when someone embraces Islam again he is called a revert but it can not be applied on prophets a.s if you accept them revert then you will have to consider them as deviants (ma'az Allah) before them becoming prophets and as we all are agreed that they were always on believing in oneness of Allah swt.So they can't be called as revert.
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s.ali123
05-24-2016, 07:38 AM
Yes. They are always on the fitra and are protected, so they always worship on God from birth and have protection. But I guess even the Prophets have to believe first when they receive something from God, like when the Prophet at the start of the revelation was terrified at what he was witnessing and Khadija R.A. calmed him down. Even in Quran something similar in 2:285. So it is interesting to note that this is the reason that Prophets are ones who are tested the most among human beings. Because they witness and care about people and think alot about them. Like what the final Prophet used to ponder in the cave of Hira. Truly remarkable! Subhanallah
آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۚ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ ۚ وَقَالُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا ۖ غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ
The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination.

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Cpt.America
05-24-2016, 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by s.ali123
Yes I was thinking the same, which thing to revert to. But if you look at the life of the Prophet S.A.W. there were still few people in mekka who were jews and christians. Like the cousin of Khadija R.A. who were on tawheed. And also the the rabbi who met the Prophet when he was young on his jouney with his uncle.
Even the practice of secluding oneself in order to ponder, I read in a book of seerah, that in mecca some people belonging to christian and jewish tradition used to seclude themselves in order to worship. Offcourse for all prophets almost this has been the case of seclusion before getting the Prophethood.
But I agree using the word 'revert' is not right as he was not misguided in the first place, in the sense that he never worshiped anyone beside one God.
Just to note:
Christianity, and definitely Judaism by that time had become corrupted. There were people of the book that did believe in Tawhid despite the added traditions their religious institutions invented on top of the original Truth that Allah had provided them, but even then this was a minority. To me it seems that Allah SWT protected Muhammad SAWS from adopting these religions prior to receiving the prophethood. I say 'protected' because by not adopting one of the earlier JudeoChristian religions, he Muhammad SAWS:

-remained on a purer fitrah free from any corruption of institution
-the nonbelievers at the time and today cannot charge him SAWS for 'stealing' and adapting JudeoChristian ideas, as they were foreign to him SAWS
-the fact that an unlettered man SAWS with no history of JudeoChristian knowledge clarified and elaborated upon their own history (as we see in Surah Kahf) provides more proof for his SAWS prophethood.

In my (nonscholarly) opinion
-it is better that Muhammad SAWS had a pure monotheism priory rather than accepting a corrupted religion (even though Muhammad SAWS would not accept the corruptions due to his strong fitrah, the enemies of Islam would surely still have accused him of being a trinitarian amongst the many baseless accusations they did actually try to accuse him SAWS of)
-and it would be better to accept a corrupted religion that had started on truth than to have been a Quraysh polytheist (which Muhammad SAWS never was anyway)
-and being an Arab pagan would be the absolute worst thing.

just my honest opinions, liable to change with more evidence of course, Jazakallah
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s.ali123
05-24-2016, 10:30 AM
I agree with everything you said. Offcourse there was no point in going to corrupted religions. Allah wanted to send new shariah so why to send his messenger back to corrupted ones.
But in my humble opinion, I find Muhammad S.A.W. a great observer of the people and nature. Allah was the educator of the Prophet S.A.W. since his birth directly. After the revelation he was getting commands directly, but even before that, the circumstances presented to the Prophet S.A.W. made him learn many things about honesty, truth, charity etc etc.
I did not mean that he learned from jews or Christians, I was saying that even among the people of mecca who were monotheist, and wanted to correct society, even they used to go into seclusion. But I feel this thing is what all humans do, who are sensitive, and especially the Prophets before revelation.
Before explicit revelation Prophet S.A.W. was getting trained by Allah to receive it. His observatiob about the universe had reached its peak, and the knowledge he could acquire through observation of the universe (like other Prophets, especially Ibrahim A.S. explicitly mentioned in Quran) had reached its limit, and he was ready to receive the Quran :)

So no, there was no reversion to anywhere in my opinion. Because he was always on the straight path, rather he was on a journey to learn more about Allah and universe.
What do you think ?
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Cpt.America
05-24-2016, 11:01 AM
I don't think very much about it.

I don't know that he SAWS was on any particular journey as Ibrahim AS was, but he may have been. He may also not have been, as Musa AS wasn't on a particular journey (Musa AS wasn't on a journey to find Tawhid as he already had it) when he received the first message. These aren't really topic for me to speculate on anyhow imho
I just know that he Muhammad SAWS was deeply upset about the polytheism and manners of the Quraiysh, and that he SAWS always believed in One Allah and all throughout his life, and that he worried about the moral state of his people, and that he SAWS would go into seclusion to ponder and to pray. Muhammad SAWS was the best of men prior to the revelation, and this was widely known by his lifestyle manners and conduct. And he Muhammad SAWS the best of men after the revelation and this became even more widely known all the world over.

I agree with you that Allah had prepared him SAWS through his life to be ready for the prophethood, and that he was the most intelligent and observant of people.
I just cannot comment on whether he was on any particular journey of knowledge at the time or not.
Whatever the case before Islam he SAWS always turned to Allah and after he SAWS always turned to Allah, and as such that is the most perfect thing to do for guidance and that is what we should do as well InshaaAllah.
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