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jabeady
06-09-2016, 10:10 PM
I've always been curious, what has Middle Eastern culture, in general, and Islam in particular, got against dogs? Domestication of the dog is generally considered one of humanity's greatest early achievements, right up there with taming fire. Man's partnership with dogs has been quite possibly more important than our partnership with the horse. Even today, in the US, dogs are used for emotional therapy in hospitals, you will find them various tasks in virtually all police and military forces, not to mention their traditional rolls as household pets and companions, hunting partners and, in extremity, food.

So, what does Islam find objectionable about the dog?
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*charisma*
06-09-2016, 11:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady
I've always been curious, what has Middle Eastern culture, in general, and Islam in particular, got against dogs? Domestication of the dog is generally considered one of humanity's greatest early achievements, right up there with taming fire. Man's partnership with dogs has been quite possibly more important than our partnership with the horse. Even today, in the US, dogs are used for emotional therapy in hospitals, you will find them various tasks in virtually all police and military forces, not to mention their traditional rolls as household pets and companions, hunting partners and, in extremity, food.

So, what does Islam find objectionable about the dog?
In Islam a dog is considered impure (particularly it's saliva). Otherwise, a dog can be used for protection, hunting, and farming/herding purposes. It can't live inside the house where the owner lives, but it still must be treated with care and compassion.
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Scimitar
06-09-2016, 11:38 PM
I like dogs, used to look after a Rottweiler - he was really loyal and protective and understanding of my sensitivities to saliva.

id love to have a Great Dane one day in sha Allah

Scimi
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jabeady
06-13-2016, 04:21 PM
Thank you.
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greenhill
06-13-2016, 05:08 PM
The story goes..... on the ark, Noah's ark, there was a lot of ****. The pigs gobbled it up, the dogs licked it clean. . .

:peace:
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greenhill
06-13-2016, 05:15 PM
But to add something different, satan will cause to divide the ummah and matters such as these, the peripherals, where if you do come into contact with it, you will have to clean yourself off it has become frenzidly debated like it is a catastrophic event. There will be extremists in islam. There will be misguided ideologists. But the rules are clear.


:peace:
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Bhabha
06-13-2016, 06:44 PM
Domesticated dogs are not considered impure. It is undomesticated dogs, whom have no owner and thus there is no way to guarantee their consumption. Ill post the link later on.
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Aisha
06-13-2016, 07:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Domesticated dogs are not considered impure. It is undomesticated dogs, whom have no owner and thus there is no way to guarantee their consumption. Ill post the link later on.
I've never heard this before. The saliva of every dog is impure. The Angels do not enter a house in which a dog resides.

The Ahadith are very clear in this regard.
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Aaqib
06-13-2016, 10:24 PM
You should look at this:
http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...a-thirsty-dog/
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Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 10:33 PM
Islam has nothing against dogs per se.

Even referenced in Surah al Kahf, when the people of the cave are mentioned, it is mentioned that they were with their dog who was preserved along with them.

As a poster above mentioned there was the Hadith about the prostitute who was forgiven for her kindness to a thirsty dog.

Etc.

So Muslims are not meant to harbor any sort of hate towards the animals.

However their saliva is considered impure, and it is said that the Angels do not enter the homes where there is a dog.
It is forbidden for us to keep dogs as house pets, because that is what is ordered to us by Allah, and that is part of our test in life to follow His commands in a manner most pleasing to Him.
We don't really need any more reason than that.

But no worries man, maybe in Jannah you can have like, all the dogs. All of them.

Edit:

(sorry bruh. Forgot you weren't Muslim. Become Muslim my bro! You won't regret it :D

.... and if you don't. I guess you can have all the dogs in this dunya, my dawg.)

Allah knows best.
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Scimitar
06-13-2016, 10:34 PM
I had a cat lick me once, felt like fine grit sandpaper - took me back to secondary school CDT :D
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jabeady
06-14-2016, 12:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
But no worries man, maybe in Jannah you can have like, all the dogs. All of them.

Edit:

(sorry bruh. Forgot you weren't Muslim. Become Muslim my bro! You won't regret it :D

.... and if you don't. I guess you can have all the dogs in this dunya, my dawg.)

Allah knows best.
Thanks, but I'm a cat person.
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crimsontide06
06-14-2016, 02:45 AM
I'm 100% a cat person but one day I want a German Sheppard. A cat will lick an intruder to death, a German Sheppard will make quick work of them.
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Cpt.America
06-14-2016, 02:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady
Thanks, but I'm a cat person.
Same man.
Cat videos are the backbone that makes the Internet.
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*charisma*
06-14-2016, 02:57 AM
Men: love cats and dogs, but terrified of spiders.
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Hamza Asadullah
06-14-2016, 03:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady
I've always been curious, what has Middle Eastern culture, in general, and Islam in particular, got against dogs? Domestication of the dog is generally considered one of humanity's greatest early achievements, right up there with taming fire. Man's partnership with dogs has been quite possibly more important than our partnership with the horse. Even today, in the US, dogs are used for emotional therapy in hospitals, you will find them various tasks in virtually all police and military forces, not to mention their traditional rolls as household pets and companions, hunting partners and, in extremity, food.

So, what does Islam find objectionable about the dog?
You are most welcome my friend.

Firstly it is Allah that allows any of his creations to be domesticated for our service to be subservient to man. Allah loves his creations and warns us not to harm any of them without a good reason.

Dogs are permitted for hunting, herding livestock or farming but not as pets. The saliva is not permissable for us to come into contact with and they are not hygenic to keep in the house.

Apart from the saliva of the dog being impure and dogs in general being unhygeniec to keep in the house, another reason why we are not permitted to keep dogs may be because Dogs and humans get very attached and dogs have much shorter lives than humans so in an average human life one may lose 3 or 4 dogs in throughout their lives. Which is said to be like losing a close family member or companion. On top of that many people replace socialising and interacting with humans with animals.Many even do not bother finding companions because they have their pet dogs. So people can become so attached to dogs to the point that they replace human interaction with animal interaction.

On top of that dogs need a lot of attention to one has to spend a lot of time with them. The purpose of our lives as Muslims is to spend our lives in worship of Allah and to do everything to please him and refrain from anything that may anger and displease him. Therefore we must reduce anything that may distract us from this purpose of our lives.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 04:15 AM
Hi guys,

Okais. So I have the source here. A wonderful moderator in this site actually sent it to me over PM.

http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/dinistrandna.html

By: Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl

Islamic discourses on the nature, and function of dogs are representative of a range of tensions regarding the roles of history, mythology, rationality, and modernity in Islam. In fact, the debates surrounding the avowed impurity of dogs, and the lawfulness of possessing or living with these animals were one of the main issues symbolizing the challenging dynamic between the revealed religious law, and the state of creation or nature. In addition, certain aspects of these debates pertained to the power dynamics of patriarchy, and more generally, the construction of social attitudes towards marginal elements in society.

In a fashion similar to European medieval folklore, black dogs, in particular, were viewed ominously in the Islamic tradition.[1] According to one tradition attributed to Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, black dogs are evil, or even devils, in animal form.[2] Although this report did reflect a part of pre-Islamic Arab mythology, it had a limited impact upon Islamic law. The vast majority of Muslim jurists considered this particular tradition to be falsely attributed to the Prophet, and therefore, apocryphal. Nevertheless, much of the Islamic discourse focused on a Prophetic report instructing that if a dog, regardless of the color, licks a container, the container must be washed seven times, with the sprinkling of dust[3] in one of the washings. Different versions of the same report specify that the container be washed once, three, or five times, or omit the reference to the sprinkling of dust. The essential point conveyed in these reports is that dogs are impure animals, or, at least, that their saliva is a contaminant that voids a Muslim’s ritual purity. Hostility to dogs, not just as a source of physical but moral impurity, are further expressed in Prophetic reports claiming that angels, as God’s agents of mercy and absolution, will not enter a home that has a dog,[4] or that the company of dogs voids a portion of a Muslim’s good deeds.[5] Cultural biases against dogs as a source of moral danger reach an extreme point in reports that claim that Prophet commanded Muslims not trade or deal in dogs,[6] and even to slaughter all dogs, except for those used in herding, farming, or hunting.[7]

These various anti-dogs reports expressed culturally engrained social anxieties about aspects of nature that were seen as threatening or unpredictable. In addition, discourses on dogs played a symbolic role in the attempts of pre-modern societies to explore the boundaries that differentiated human beings from animals. In that sense, the debates about dogs acted as a forum for negotiating not just the nature of dogs but also the nature of human beings. This is most apparent in traditions that create a symbolic nexus between marginalized elements in society, such as non-Muslims or women, and dogs. In some such traditions, it is claimed that the Prophet said that dogs, donkeys, women, and in some versions non-Muslims, if they pass in front of men in prayer, they will void or nullify that prayer.[8] Interestingly, early Muslim authorities, such as the Prophet’s wife Aisha, strongly protested this symbolic association between dogs and women because of its demeaning implications for women. As a result, most Muslim jurists ruled that this tradition is not authentic, and that the crossing of women in front of men does not negate their prayers.[9]

Despite the attribution to the Prophet of a large number of traditions hostile to dogs, for a variety of reasons, many pre-modern Muslim scholars challenged this orientation. The Qur’an, the divine book of Islam, does not condemn dogs as impure or evil. In addition, a large number of early reports, probably reflecting historical practice, contradicted the dog-hostile traditions. For instance, several reports indicated that the Prophet’s young cousins, and some of the companions owned puppies.[10] Other reports indicated that the Prophet prayed while a dog played in the vicinity.[11] In addition, there is considerable historical evidence that dogs roamed freely in Medina and even entered the Prophet’s mosque.[12] A particularly interesting tradition attributed to the Prophet asserted that a prostitute, and in some versions, a sinning man, secured their places in Heaven by saving the life of a dog dying of thirst in the desert.[13]

Most jurists rejected the traditions mandating the killing of dogs as fabrications because, they reasoned, such behavior would be wasteful of life. These jurists argued that there is a presumption prohibiting the destruction of nature, and mandating the honoring of all creation. Any part of creation or nature cannot be needlessly destroyed, and no life can be taken without compelling cause.[14] For the vast majority of jurists, since the consumption of dogs was strictly prohibited in Islam, there was no reason to slaughter dogs. Aside from the issue of killing dogs, Muslim jurists disagreed on the permissibility of owning dogs. A large number of jurists allowed the ownership of dogs for the purpose of serving human needs, such as herding, farming, hunting, or protection. They also prohibited the ownership of dogs for frivolous reasons, such as enjoying their appearance or out a desire to show off.[15] Some scholars rationalized this determination by arguing that dogs endanger the safety of neighbors and travelers.[16] For the majority of jurists, however, the pertinent issue was not whether it was lawful to own dogs, but the avowed impurity of dogs. The majority contended that the pivotal issue is whether the bodies and saliva of dogs are pure or not. If dogs are in fact impure then they cannot be owned unless there is a serious need for doing so.[17]

As to the issue of purity, the main point of contention was as to whether there is a rational basis for the command to wash a container if touched or licked by a dog.[18] The majority of jurists held that there is no rational basis for this command, and that dogs, like pigs, must be considered impure simply as a matter of deference to the religious text. A sizeable number of jurists, however, disagreed with this position. Jurists, particularly from the Maliki school of thought, argued that everything found in nature is presumed to be pure unless proven otherwise, either through experience or text.[19] Ruling that the traditions mentioned above are not of sufficient reliability or authenticity so as to overcome the presumption of purity, they argued that dogs are pure animals. Accordingly, they maintained that dogs do not void a Muslim’s prayer or ritual purity.[20] Other jurists argued that the command mandating that a vessel be washed a number of times was intended as a precautionary health measure. These jurists argued that the Prophet’s tradition on this issue was intended to apply only to dogs at risk of being infected by the rabies virus. Hence, if a dog is not a possible carrier of rabies, it is presumed to be pure.[21] A small number of jurists carried this logic further in arguing that rural dogs are pure, while urban dogs are impure because urban dogs often consume human garbage.[22] Another group of jurists argued that the purity of dogs turn on their domesticity—domestic dogs are considered pure because human beings feed and clean them, while dogs that live in the wild or on the streets of a city could be carriers of disease, and therefore, they are considered impure.[23] It is clear from the evolution of these discourses that as nature became more susceptible to rational understanding, complex and potentially dangerous creatures, such as dogs, became less threatening for Muslim jurists.

Aside from the legal discourses, dogs occupied an elusive position in Muslim culture. On the one hand, in Arabic literature dogs were often portrayed as a symbol of highly esteemed virtues such as self-sacrifice and loyalty. For example, Ibn Al-Marzuban wrote a fascinating treatise titled, The Book of the Superiority of Dogs Over Many of Those Who Wear Clothes, which contrasts the loyalty and faithfulness of dogs to the treachery and fickleness of human beings. Dogs were also widely used for protection, sheep herding, and hunting. On the other hand, dogs were often portrayed as an oppressive instrument in the hands of despotic and unjust rulers. Similar to the medieval European practice, in the pre-modern Middle East region, as an expression of contempt or deprecation, at times dogs were hung or buried with the corpses of dissidents or rebels.[24] Furthermore, in popular culture, unlike cats, dogs were considered filthy or impure animals that ought not share the living space of the pious or religiously observant. This cultural anti-dog prejudice survived into modern times, and as a result, the ownership of dogs continues to be socially frowned upon. In the contemporary Muslim world, dog ownership is common only among Bedouins, law enforcement, and the Westernized higher classes. As a matter of fact, it is rather striking that, to a very large extent, modern Muslims are unaware of the pre-modern juristic determinations that vindicated the purity of dogs. Nevertheless, this in itself is a measure of the ambiguous fortunes of the dynamics between Islamic law and nature in modernity. In the pre-modern age, Islamic law evolved in near proportion to the advances achieved in the human knowledge of nature. But as the institutions of Islamic law were deconstructed by European Colonialism, and with the rise of puritanical movements in contemporary Islam, Islamic jurisprudence has ceased to be a forum for creative thinking or dynamic interactions with the vastness of nature.



This is also another source
http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/tloofesfaond.html
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AabiruSabeel
06-14-2016, 10:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Hi guys,

Okais. So I have the source here.

...
:sl:

This is an isolated opinion and we are not supposed to follow isolated opinions in Religion. Please see these threads:

http://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kno...deen-read.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kno...im-reform.html
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 10:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
:sl:

This is an isolated opinion and we are not supposed to follow isolated opinions in Religion. Please see these threads:

http://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kno...deen-read.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kno...im-reform.html
I don't follow opinions from scholars who clearly hate dogs.
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AabiruSabeel
06-14-2016, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
I don't follow opinions from scholars who clearly hate dogs.
Nobody hates them. There are clear rulings for keeping a dog. If you want to follow the Religion, follow it properly and fear Allah. Searching for isolated opinions to suit your desire will only lead you astray.

Please read those threads.
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Aisha
06-14-2016, 10:59 AM
Brother @ibn-Adam is right.

Sister @Bhabha following an isolated opinion is very dangerous. You'll be able to find an isolated opinion for absolutely anything you search for. One even states that a man can view his potential spouse naked to see if she pleases him. Yet this is Haraam according to every other scholar and with good reason. Thus no one is allowed to follow this ruling. You wouldn't follow that, would you? It shows how an isolated opinion cannot be taken for any ruling.
If the vast majority of scholars have rejected a certain fatwa, there's wisdom in that.
Scholars who maintain that dogs' saliva is impure do not hate dogs - rather, they're upholding the law of Allah. We cannot follow our own desires when it comes to Deen. Dogs are a creation of Allah and must be treated well, without transgressing the limits that Allah has set.
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 11:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
Nobody hates them. There are clear rulings for keeping a dog. If you want to follow the Religion, follow it properly and fear Allah. Searching for isolated opinions to suit your desire will only lead you astray.

Please read those threads.
This is not an isolated opinion. Did you even bother to read the whole post? It is rational, well articulated and applicable. If a dog's nature is to accompany humans, to aid them, how then is it isolate to postulate that the reference to being impure was not in fact because of rabies or other diseases that could be transmitted through the dog's saliva, which is why you would wash the bowl, which is WHY a dog that has no rabies is able to make a hunting partner and fetch for his master the kill. A dog with rabies would be unable to do this. The ruling is not clear for dogs, because the ruling on the dog is referencing a KNOWN disease for the dog. Sorry, but "Muslim" culture in Muslim's countries are very hateful towards dogs and I would actually not be surprised to see that rulings which are admissible come from countries, who have a history of disliking these animals. As such, I do not follow them.
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 11:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha
Brother @ibn-Adam is right.

Sister @Bhabha following an isolated opinion is very dangerous. You'll be able to find an isolated opinion for absolutely anything you search for. One even states that a man can view his potential spouse naked to see if she pleases him. Yet this is Haraam according to every other scholar and with good reason. Thus no one is allowed to follow this ruling. You wouldn't follow that, would you? It shows how an isolated opinion cannot be taken for any ruling.
If the vast majority of scholars have rejected a certain fatwa, there's wisdom in that.
Scholars who maintain that dogs' saliva is impure do not hate dogs - rather, they're upholding the law of Allah. We cannot follow our own desires when it comes to Deen. Dogs are a creation of Allah and must be treated well, without transgressing the limits that Allah has set.
Thank you, dogs are a creation of Allah and how can a creation be impure? Specially one that is consistently named throughout the books. The impurity is contextual, otherwise getting the animal that your dog helped you to hunt, would also render that animal for eating ​impure.
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AabiruSabeel
06-14-2016, 11:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Thank you, dogs are a creation of Allah and how can a creation be impure? Specially one that is consistently named throughout the books. The impurity is contextual, otherwise getting the animal that your dog helped you to hunt, would also render that animal for eating ​impure.
I think there is a misunderstanding.

Dogs are not hated by Muslims. Like any other animal, they have the same rights.

Dogs are not impure as a whole. Their saliva is impure because that is what is mentioned in the Hadith.

Dogs can be kept as pet, but not inside your home. Qur'an also mentions this, that the dog of People of Cave stayed at the entrance, it did not enter inside.
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Aisha
06-14-2016, 11:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Thank you, dogs are a creation of Allah and how can a creation be impure? Specially one that is consistently named throughout the books. The impurity is contextual, otherwise getting the animal that your dog helped you to hunt, would also render that animal for eating ​impure.
Allah also created the blood that runs in our veins, yet that blood is impure.
Allah created pigs, pigs are impure.
Allah created certain plants which are poisonous, ingesting them will kill you.

Therefore it's wrong to say that a creation can't be impure. In this case, the saliva is impure.

We can't claim to know the reasoning behind Allah's commands but we do know that they far supersede our own logic. What you're doing here is applying your own logic and negating the limits set in the Hadith.

And the isolated opinion I mentioned before? The scholar based it on Quran and Sunnah too, according to his understanding. He didn't just pull it out of his pocket. He researched to the best of his ability. Yet it's not accepted.

To cut to the chase, this depends on how much value you place on the Hadith and whether you're willing to set aside your desires and accept the limits set by Allah. There's nothing more to say.
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 11:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
I think there is a misunderstanding.

Dogs are not hated by Muslims. Like any other animal, they have the same rights.

Dogs are not impure as a whole. Their saliva is impure because that is what is mentioned in the Hadith.

Dogs can be kept as pet, but not inside your home. Qur'an also mentions this, that the dog of People of Cave stayed at the entrance, it did not enter inside.
Ok, so I guess keeping a dog outside in the heat and in the freezing cold is a great way to take care of an animal.
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AabiruSabeel
06-14-2016, 12:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Ok, so I guess keeping a dog outside in the heat and in the freezing cold is a great way to take care of an animal.
If you are so keen on keeping it, you can create a kennel for it, with everything required to keep it safe from extreme temperatures.
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Aisha
06-14-2016, 12:01 PM
^ Who said you can't build a shelter for it? I've seen guard dogs in a Muslim country who have their own shelters and are usually fed before the people of the house get to eat! They do a pretty good job protecting the people, property and livestock and are treated well.
Keeping it outside in the cold and heat with no protection wouldn't be fulfilling it's rights.
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 12:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha
Allah also created the blood that runs in our veins, yet that blood is impure.
Allah created pigs, pigs are impure.
Allah created certain plants which are poisonous, ingesting them will kill you.

Therefore it's wrong to say that a creation can't be impure. In this case, the saliva is impure.

We can't claim to know the reasoning behind Allah's commands but we do know that they far supersede our own logic. What you're doing here is applying your own logic and negating the limits set in the Hadith.

And the isolated opinion I mentioned before? The scholar based it on Quran and Sunnah too, according to his understanding. He didn't just pull it out of his pocket. He researched to the best of his ability. Yet it's not accepted.

To cut to the chase, this depends on how much value you place on the Hadith and whether you're willing to set aside your desires and accept the limits set by Allah. There's nothing more to say.
There is nothing that states the dog is impure, the only reference is to the SALIVA and you have to obviously clean yourself if a dog licks you, not just to pray but because its hygenic. :/

So because blood runs through your veins, you are impure?
So because there are poisonous plants, you should destroy these plants?
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 12:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha
^ Who said you can't build a shelter for it? I've seen guard dogs in a Muslim country who have their own shelters and are usually fed before the people of the house get to eat! They do a pretty good job protecting the people, property and livestock and are treated well.
Keeping it outside in the cold and heat with no protection wouldn't be fulfilling it's rights.
Assuming the person has enough money AND space to keep the dog outside. You forget not everyone lives in lavish country homes.
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 12:03 PM
I WILL KEEP MY DOG INSIDE MY DAMN HOUSE
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Cpt.America
06-14-2016, 12:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
I think there is a misunderstanding.

Dogs are not hated by Muslims. Like any other animal, they have the same rights.

Dogs are not impure as a whole. Their saliva is impure because that is what is mentioned in the Hadith.

Dogs can be kept as pet, but not inside your home. Qur'an also mentions this, that the dog of People of Cave stayed at the entrance, it did not enter inside.
Edit:
my opinion was wrong and Ibn-Adam corrected me with sources, may Allah reward him for it.

The dog was guarding the threshold, which I had assumed was in the cave, but in reality was outside it.
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Cpt.America
06-14-2016, 12:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
I WILL KEEP MY DOG INSIDE MY DAMN HOUSE
Whatever your opinion is sister, you do at least agree, that if said dog licks you, you'll have to change your clothes and make wudu for praying salaat?
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 12:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
Whatever your opinion is sister, you do at least agree, that if said dog licks you, you'll have to change your clothes and make wudu for praying salaat?
My dog doesn't lick me. He's well trained and doesn't go near my room or prayer area. But yes I do whudhu before praying.

Also. He's super clean..... Like very clean
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Aisha
06-14-2016, 12:09 PM
You completely misunderstood my point. You stated that 'how can a creation be impure?' So I mentioned a few examples of creations that are very much impure.
Dogs' saliva is impure, as I stated. To keep a dog out of necessity (protection, hunting, guide dog for the blind etc) is permissible, as long as the conditions are met.

I honestly don't see why it's so necessary to have a pet dog anyway. If in doubt, leave it out.
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Cpt.America
06-14-2016, 12:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
My dog doesn't lick me. He's well trained and doesn't go near my room or prayer area. But yes I do whudhu before praying.

Also. He's super clean..... Like very clean
I don't doubt that he is clean, it is just that the Hadith speaks on the nature of their saliva (which is never dirty nor clean, it is just saliva for dogs)
But it (dog saliva) has been deemed impure for us humans, which is why I asked is all.
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AabiruSabeel
06-14-2016, 12:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
The dog was inside the cave, guarding its entrance.

It was not outside the cave.
And you would think them awake, while they were asleep. And We turned them to the right and to the left, while their dog stretched his forelegs at the entrance. If you had looked at them, you would have turned from them in flight and been filled by them with terror. [18:18]


From Tafsir,

(and their dog stretching forth his two forelegs at the Wasid)
Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr and Qatadah said: "The Wasid means the threshold.'' Ibn `Abbas said: "By the door.'' It was said: "On the ground.'' The correct view is that it means on the threshold, i.e., at the door.

Their dog lay down at the door, as is the habit of dogs. Ibn Jurayj said, "He was guarding the door for them.'' It was his nature and habit to lie down at their door as if guarding them. He was sitting outside the door, because the angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog, as was reported in As-Sahih, nor do they enter a house in which there is an image, a person in a state of ritual impurity or a disbeliever, as was narrated in the Hasan Hadith. The blessing they enjoyed extended to their dog, so the sleep that overtook them overtook him too. This is the benefit of accompanying good people, and so this dog attained fame and stature.

Source: http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...2738&Itemid=73
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 12:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha
You completely misunderstood my point. You stated that 'how can a creation be impure?' So I mentioned a few examples of creations that are very much impure.
Dogs' saliva is impure, as I stated. To keep a dog out of necessity (protection, hunting, guide dog for the blind etc) is permissible, as long as the conditions are met.

I honestly don't see why it's so necessary to have a pet dog anyway. If in doubt, leave it out.
You might not care for dogs. But I love dogs and consider them great companions. That is the way اللهُ has created me, to love dogs and animals and to want to keep and care for them.

You do as you please.
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Cpt.America
06-14-2016, 12:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
And you would think them awake, while they were asleep. And We turned them to the right and to the left, while their dog stretched his forelegs at the entrance. If you had looked at them, you would have turned from them in flight and been filled by them with terror. [18:18]


From Tafsir,

(and their dog stretching forth his two forelegs at the Wasid)
Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr and Qatadah said: "The Wasid means the threshold.'' Ibn `Abbas said: "By the door.'' It was said: "On the ground.'' The correct view is that it means on the threshold, i.e., at the door.

Their dog lay down at the door, as is the habit of dogs. Ibn Jurayj said, "He was guarding the door for them.'' It was his nature and habit to lie down at their door as if guarding them. He was sitting outside the door, because the angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog, as was reported in As-Sahih, nor do they enter a house in which there is an image, a person in a state of ritual impurity or a disbeliever, as was narrated in the Hasan Hadith. The blessing they enjoyed extended to their dog, so the sleep that overtook them overtook him too. This is the benefit of accompanying good people, and so this dog attained fame and stature.

Source: http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...2738&Itemid=73
Jazakallah for the clarification my bro, much appreciated knowledge <3
Reply

Aisha
06-14-2016, 12:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
You might not care for dogs. But I love dogs and consider them great companions. That is the way اللهُ has created me, to love dogs and animals and to want to keep and care for them.

You do as you please.
Careful with the assumptions there. :D You know what they say about assuming..
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 02:23 PM
Subhanllahi wa bi hamdihi

Allah subhano wa Ta'ala guides whom He Wills, and misguides whom He Wills.

Didn't I read a post, something about holding onto the same rope....?
Reply

Bhabha
06-14-2016, 02:34 PM
If I take that Hadith as literal. Then I should also kick my parents outside right. Because disbelievers are in the same rank as dogs apparently. So there are no angels near my vicinity.

You people drive anyone insane.
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MuslimInshallah
06-14-2016, 07:18 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,


(mildly) Respectfully, I must point out that Sheikh Khaled Abou El Fadl has obtained both ijazas from the Middle East (Egypt and Kuwait), as well as degrees (including a doctorate of Law) from American universities. I have read several of his books, and they are well-written (though a bit inaccessible for the general pubic, I find) and thoughtful.


It may be that one may disagree with some of his opinions (which is what fatawa are- opinions), but one cannot just dismiss him. Even less should one suggest that he does not have knowledge.


This sheikh accesses the Qur’an, the Sunnah, as well as a wide range of classical Islamic texts (he has 40,000 books in his personal library alone) when searching to understand Allah’s Will. His training and his learning are formidable, and even more importantly, his manners are very good. (smile) You may wonder at this last, but a person who has poor behaviour cannot be truly knowledgeable in Islam.


I personally am not very in favour of pets in a house. (smile) The fact that I am allergic to them may colour my views considerably, though. I would also like to state that I had the understanding that dogs were not permissible unless they had a use, and that they should be kept outdoors. But after reading Sheikh Abou El Fadl’s comments (and he has published others, too, not just the ones quoted above), I have filed his opinion (and he is not alone in his opinion, it seems) as one amongst others that inform my understandings.


Would I suggest that Muslims should rush out to acquire dogs? No. But I feel that I should not speak or judge harshly those Muslims who do have dogs. (mildly) Because it may be that my understandings are wrong. And because this question is relatively minor in my opinion. Behaving well, fulfilling our duties, working to promote justice and kindness… it seems to me that we Muslims have so many things that we could potentially be thinking and working on, that to get overly wrapped up in minor questions -especially if it may cause dissension and hurt- would border on sinful in and of itself.


Bhabha, my dear, no one is forcing you to abandon your dogs (or your parents!). They are stating their opinions, and you are free to disagree with them and make your own choices. (gently) Just as they are free to disagree with you and make their own choices.


And in the end, we will all be Judged by God, the High, the Knowing, for what we have done, haven’t done, tried to do, and our intentions.




(smile) Ramadan Mubarak my dear brothers and sisters in Islam! May Allah, the Compassionate, help us to restrain ourselves for His Sake, and may He Accept our efforts to so Please Him.

Reply

piXie
06-15-2016, 01:06 PM
:sl:

Maa shaa Allaah, excellent response posted here by brother najimuddin.

Esp. the final paragraph;



It is a reality that some Muslims drink liquor, commit adultery, sodomise or abandon the compulsory prayers. As long as they accept these misdeeds to be their own personal weakness, there is hope of repentance and reformation. Salvation is dependent on acknowledgement of our weaknesses. To some degree or the other we all sin. What is frightening is the recent trend of justifying our sins and weaknesses. Islam is being re-interpreted to suit our own fancies. Guilt is pacified by the re-invention of Islam. Herein lies our self destruction. May Allah Ta’ala save one and all.
Aameen to the du'aa.
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greenhill
06-15-2016, 01:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Men: love cats and dogs, but terrified of spiders.
Wrong!

Cockcroaches!
Reply

T L
06-15-2016, 01:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
If I take that Hadith as literal. Then I should also kick my parents outside right. Because disbelievers are in the same rank as dogs apparently. So there are no angels near my vicinity.

You people drive anyone insane.
"You" people.

I think you're driving yourself insane.
Reply

Scimitar
06-15-2016, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Men: love cats and dogs, but terrified of spiders.
my kryptonite is moths :D they make me shriek like a 6 year old girl, no lies. Just yucky bulbous ugh vile things
Reply

greenhill
06-15-2016, 05:08 PM
.. . ...What is frightening is the recent trend of justifying our sins and weaknesses. Islam is being re-interpreted to suit our own fancies. Guilt is pacified by the re-invention of Islam. Herein lies our self destruction. May Allah Ta’ala save one and all @najimuddin

So true. The deen is being attacked at the fringes and working inwards via what has been clearly explained showing concerted effort to isolate and counter, and possibly targetting those who are born muslims but know not . . using only scientific knowledge and western reasons, without actually they themselves seeking out what is said and learning. . .it is not really a surprise then to see how these kinds of reasoning styles have not already been dealt with. People fall prey through ignorance. .

For this thread, it is about dogs. There was a similar thread about over a year, maybe 2?

We can all see why it is haraam to eat the pig, it eats poop. We are what we eat! On Noah's ark, the pigs cleared out the poop and the dogs licked up the remains. Hence its impurity, especially the saliva.

So to have dogs, discipline is needed. And rules.

:peace:
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noraina
06-15-2016, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
my kryptonite is moths they make me shriek like a 6 year old girl, no lies. Just yucky bulbous ugh vile things
You sound just like my sister, she goes around screaming as if it's a blood-sucking vampire, honestly.....

I think moths are pretty.
Reply

Arfa
06-15-2016, 06:25 PM
Assalamualaikum,

since majority has stated authentic opinions here,I want to state im in love with dogs awe my bad they aren't allowed as pets ,:heated:though dogs are known to be loyal little fellas ,also they are excellent breed for afore mentioned reasons above so here is the answer I guess...Peace
Reply

Scimitar
06-15-2016, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
You sound just like my sister, she goes around screaming as if it's a blood-sucking vampire, honestly.....

I think moths are pretty.
They scare the crap out of me, I really hate it when they fly up to the light bulb above my bed and thn fall down - i literally feel like i'm jumping out of my skin, you've never seen anyone move so fast lol.

Scimi
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noraina
06-15-2016, 09:00 PM
Exactly what my sister says :D, she hates the way they flutter around and seem to 'bump' into everything.
Reply

Aisha
06-15-2016, 09:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
Exactly what my sister says :D, she hates the way they flutter around and seem to 'bump' into everything.
Moths are so creepy. My dad didn't help matters when I was younger by offering to make me a moth sandwich every time I saw one and ran away screaming. :skeleton:
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noraina
06-15-2016, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha
Moths are so creepy. My dad didn't help matters when I was younger by offering to make me a moth sandwich every time I saw one and ran away screaming.
Am I the only one here who likes moths?

But wow a moth sandwich ;D I can visualise that quite well, it would have put even me off them forever.
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'abd al-hakeem
06-15-2016, 10:12 PM
....
Reply

Reminder
06-16-2016, 12:53 AM
Animals must serve a purpose, otherwise their domestication is pointless and a waste of time and energy.

Cats were and still are useful to eliminate an environment from rodents. They were used by farmers in this respect, long ago.

Dogs are meant to protect, guide the blind, smell drugs, etc. In terms of them being inside your house, well it is said the angels will not enter.
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madihakhan
07-12-2016, 08:00 AM
I have heard this hadtih 100 times from many people , I m a landlord and my owner lives in groundfloor and we in first floor so basically its a same house the owners have a dog bread German Shepherd so does it mean angels won't reside in our house , in first floor ?
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Scimitar
07-14-2016, 01:16 AM
Nope, that's your house space - not theirs.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
07-14-2016, 01:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
I WILL KEEP MY DOG INSIDE MY DAMN HOUSE
:D

I wouldn't.

Damn my house, that is :D

But yeah, dogs have survived the seasons as God made them to survive them, and this sharpens their fitra as they are animals... when you keep a dog in the home, you are taking a part of its fitra away from it, and domesticating it - if you love dogs, why would you do that?

Let's put the saliva argument aside for a moment and instead, let's make the issue about you and your domesticating a dog by keeping it in the home, shall we?

You'll find you have way more problems with a dog inside your home than inside of a kennel outside of it. But whatever - let's explore the issue further, shall we? :)

Scimi
Reply

madihakhan
07-18-2016, 04:42 AM
Yes Scimitar I was thinking the same !! but thank you for confirming me ..
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Kiro
07-18-2016, 02:23 PM
Huskies seem awesome.
Reply

Little_Lion
07-31-2016, 04:06 AM
When I first came to Islam, I asked my teacher if I had to give up my dogs. He asked me, what is your reason for having dogs? I told him that I kept them not only for protection, but to also save them, as they are quite elderly and would have been put to sleep had they remained at the shelter. He said that my reasons for owning dogs were good reasons in the sight of Allah - we are allowed guard dogs, and we should protect all innocent things - and that there was no harm in my keeping my dogs. Because of where I live, where it gets to -30 in the winters, my dogs stay in the house as no kennel would be sufficient for them. But my teacher did tell me to always wash what a dog's tongue has touched, and be especially observant in wudu.

My cat makes much of a worse mess than my dogs do, tracking cat litter everywhere and having absolutely NO respect for prayer or study time. :)
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