:bism: (In the Name of God, The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
There is a reason some Shia groups are not considered part of Islam (as opposed to some other Shia groups are considered even within Sunni Muslim belief as part of Islam). For example, there are some Shia groups who have become extreme in their reverence of Ali
:raha: (may God be pleased with him) believing or saying things like that the Angel Gabriel :as:
(peace be upon him) made a mistake in giving the prophethood to Prophet Muhammad :saws:
(peace and blessings be upon him) when the original recipient was Ali
:raha: (may God be pleased with him). These types of beliefs are considered heretical in Sunni Islam. As far as Ahmadis are concerned, they believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a prophet of God and a reincarnation of Prophet Jesus :as:
(peace be upon him) and also Mahdi :as:
(peace be upon him) when both Shia and Sunni Islam are
unanimously agreed that prophethood ended with the death of Prophet Muhammad
(peace and blessings be upon him) and the Second Coming of Jesus :as:
(peace be upon him) is still set to occur as a regular person and devotee of the
ummah (nation) of Prophet Muhammad :saws:
(peace and blessings be upon him) to erase pagan concepts of Christianity and unite then all believers in One God under the banner of Islam to be with Mahdi :as:
(peace be upon him) with the intention to fight the
Dajjal (Anti-Christ) and his evil forces in the Last Days.
It is hard to pinpoint exactly where and when the believers, conceptualized as Muslims as the term Muslim means "to submit to God" and essentially meaning to live the truth of the Lord's prayer contained in the phrase "Thy will be done," veered off the Straight Path. Some other members might be able to give you rough timelines, but I'd just say that whenever persons veered from true monotheism and had pagan beliefs creeping in or straightforward and subversive acceptance of fragrant disobedience of God's will and command happened, that is when the believer ceased to be Muslim within the realm of the discussion we're having here. For example, we know that Jesus's :as:
(peace be upon him) disciples did not attribute to him any divinity or see him as part of the godhood.
You're asking a very complicated question here about
Tawheed: The truth is that there are nontraditional Christians - they would and do deny the divinity of Jesus :as:
(peace be upon him) - you are essentially in a roundabout way asking perhaps if they are Muslims if all of what I've aforementioned is true also. After the advent of Islam onto the world scene, the acceptance of Prophet Muhammad :saws:
(peace and blessings be upon him) is a critical feature of being identified and seen as a Muslim in God's eyes. That being said, you and I both know that Islam has one of the worst public reputation currently in the globe. And so that would naturally probably deter most non-Muslims from looking into Islam from Islamic sources and also enable persons who are not inclined to search or think for themselves to conclude that all that media and anti-Islamic sources say is true and thereby they'd conclude that Islam is a false religion and Prophet Muhammad :saws:
(peace and blessings be upon him) is not a prophet or a messenger. For these types of persons, you are perhaps also essentially wondering what their fate is according to Islam and how that fits in with what you've learned so far about Islamic worldview. Well, according to
ahadith (prophetic traditions) and Islamic scholars, people who fall under the category of "excused" for whatever reason (i.e. heard a distorted version of Islam, never heard of the religion Islam, were deaf, etc.) but are monotheists would be given a test on the Day of Judgment by God and if they pass that test, they would also be going to Heaven because they
did not intend (keyword here being "intend") to disobey God and deliberately reject Prophet Muhammad :saws:
(peace and blessings be upon him).
Having the correct belief is important; it is the stepping stone to anything. For example, in math, if you don't know basic addition like 1+0=1, what are the chances that you will understand or be able to do subtraction, division, multiplication or solve algebraic equations? For everything, there is a foundation. And
Tawheed is the foundation of a monotheist. But that foundation needs to be informed with guidance from God, and that guidance has always been delivered by messengers and prophets. Whoever subtracts or adds to the
Tawheed has gone astray, which is why Islam says that Christians went astray in deifying Jesus and Jews earned the wrath of God in flagrantly disobeying God's commands and will (when they changed God's word, inequitably applied God's law, killed prophets and messengers, and attempted to crucify Jesus even though God raised Jesus up to save Jesus from the evil-doers even when God had once upon a time singled them out to receive divine blessings as chosen peoples). I'd also like to add one more thing, lest what I've said so far is misinterpreted, that there are exceptions (that defy the rule) which enable merciful qualification of some as good believers and monotheists within both Jews and Christians. We would do well to remember that God is the
Most Merciful and
Most Just and God proposes to judge us according to our intentions, not what we outwardly manifest.
Hope that somewhat clarified the subject matter for you.
format_quote Originally Posted by
cooterhein
I'd like to get some clarification as to who is included and excluded from the Muslim category, and most especially why that is.
For starters- let me know if this is controversial for this particular group of Muslims- Shia Islam and Ahmadi Islam would typically be classified as "not actual Islam." According to the type of Muslim that I'm talking to, at least. Is that correct?
For a continuation, I've been led to understand that Muslims- here, anyway- consider Jesus to be a Muslim, same goes for a select group of the very earliest Christians, and also ancient Jews, perhaps with some exceptions and only leading up to a certain point. Where is that point exactly? I haven't found that out yet. Also Arians, according to some, and perhaps also Unitarians and a few other non-Trinitarians who broke away from Christianity, some before the rise of Islam and some after.
And finally, let's get to the heat of the meat. If you do consider Shia and Ahmadis to not be Muslim, their adherence to tawheed must not mean much in their situation, and neither does their belief in the shahada, or their devotion to the Quran and to Mohammed. All of this is overlooked in the interest of saying they are out. Yes? Whereas when you're looking at pre-Islamic Abrahamic religions, or at Arians or another type of unitarian- and to clarify, you're not saying they're similar to you and you therefore have an interest in cheering for them, you would state that the actually Are Muslims- their tawheed alone must mean a lot more for them than it does for those other guys you said are out, they never said the shahada, and they have zero devotion to Mohammed or his holy book. So why does their tawheed, all by itself, mean so much more for them than it does for these other people that you exclude?
Is there a coherent set of claims and statements that can help make sense of these related sets of evaluations? If it seems like tawheed means a great deal more to you in some situations than others, is that how you really mean to make it seem, or is it a mistake to reach that conclusion?
Please don't come up with unrelated ways to attack me or my religion, if you're going to do anything here please just work on answering the question. It is a fairly important clarifying point when it comes to assessing the way in which Muslims define and/or ring-fence Islam, so let's do that in a manner that is consistent and coherent.