format_quote Originally Posted by
keiv
Why would anyone claim that these guys are Muslim?
This used to be a more complicated argument to make, but now it's actually been streamlined and simplified. First, let's review what we know about Saudi and about Mecca, particularly during the month of Ramadan.
What we know is that access to Mecca is restricted to Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot go there. Of course this is especially important during Ramadan, there are so many Muslims making the pilgrimage and space is limited, so why would you allow non-Muslims to go there for the sake of curiosity or perhaps for the sake of violence when there's so many Muslims going there for the right reasons? As I'm sure you know, anyone who's trying to go to Mecca during the holy month needs to demonstrate that they are Muslims to the satisfaction of whoever it is that's allowing them to go there. So as a general and really reliable rule, you can expect there to be nothing but Muslims in Mecca at any given time, and especially during Ramadan.
Now let me ask you a question that has a very easy answer. Have any members of Daesh been to Mecca lately?
You see the people they are killing right?
I do see the people they are killing. They are killing Muslims. Have you seen where Daesh has been going lately? Again, that would be Mecca. The place where only Muslims are allowed to go. And again, Daesh has been going there. Then they killed people- in Mecca. Who was it they killed in Mecca? Of course it was Muslims, that's blatantly obvious. Only Muslims are ever allowed in Mecca. And who did the killing? Again, Muslims, because it happened in Mecca and we know that only Muslims are allowed to go there.
What we're looking at is an internal conflict. Muslims killing Muslims- that is, evidently, what's happening.
Daesh, as a whole, might not be part of the israeli army but, I wouldn't rule out that israel has no role in this. Israel isn't invincible as you and many others appear to think.
Well, I would, but not because Israel is invincible. I rule it out because I know who these Daesh characters were to start with- they were Saddam's guys, they became unemployed as a result of the US and its misguided nation-building plan, and these particular guys weren't given anything to do, or any type of role in the new Iraqi order. After sitting around and watching Shiites take power and take revenge on Sunnis, they eventually made an unlikely alliance with the Baath party. Things progressed from there. Nothing about who these people are or where they came from would remotely suggest any connection to Israel, the group has condemned Israel and pledged to harm it, this is a group that talks about the Palestinian people more than it talks about anyone in Mosul or Raqqa, and they are harshly critical and condemning of what Israel is doing. Apart from all that, there is no actual, credible evidence that there's any secret cooperation behind all the hostility criticism and violence.
What would possess the former muscle of Saddam to align themselves with Israel, while simultaneously spreading hatred for Israel? No, strike that, let's just do the first part. After they stopped being Saddam's guys, why would they align themselves with Israel? What would prompt them to do so? What would they hope to get out of that?
These guys could easily attack military targets and infrastructure within israel but choose to "recruit" guys from everywhere else around the world.
It's really not so easy, freedom of movement has been non-existent in occupied Palestine since before Daesh. And from what I've heard from people in the area, Daesh actually has been trying to do some things there, especially in Gaza- specifically, they're hoping to flip enough key people to their allegiance so they can take over control of the area from Hamas. The people of Gaza haven't shown much support for that type of regime change though, and Hamas has avoided any real threat of losing control. Whatever plan Daesh has in mind, Hamas isn't giving up their control so far. For example, pro-Daesh elements in Gaza include a group known as the Omar Brigades, and when they have fired rockets into southern Israel, Hamas has come after them and arrested them. In Gaza, at least, rockets get fired when Hamas says so.
On the other hand, Hamas has been supporting a Daesh-linked group in Sinai, so it's not as if they're completely at loggerheads. Outside Gaza, there's a fair bit of coopertion. This is basically the situation, though- plenty complicated, fairly delicate, it could and pretty much will change, and it's really not so simple as "Well they could easily just, so why don't they."
And who exactly are you to him? I don't think impressing an anonymous poster on the net is on his top 10 things to do list
Well, I'm an American, and I know there's certain parts of Islam that he'd be embarrassed to admit this too, but our countries are allies. This is also a moment when he's on a bit of a world stage, so it really does matter what everyone thinks about him right now, not just a room full of Muslims.