Recommendation before divorce

[Samira23]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I come to this forum in order to ask you for your opinion/suggestions and recommendations before to apply for divorce.

I have been married 7 years. My husband and I are both converted Muslims and we have been struggling in our marriage only 1 year after the birth of our first child due to his lack of care toward me.
My husband without any explanation became distant, silent and cutting off communication between us only few months after our first child was born. I should say that before i married him, several people warned me about his mental instability. But I did not realize that something was wrong with him. NOw I became after going from frustration of not been loved a very angry person and when i talk to him i cannot even feel peace. I tried during almost 5 years to understand him, to know what was wrong with me, to ask him what the issues were, to buy books to help our marriage, to pray, to invite him to counselor and in all of that the only progress i could see is my husband was more and more distant. We are at the point that we are husband and wife only on paper. He will not communicate with me and live his life between his work, friends and also what i call flirts. I found my husband involved in several online chatting discussions with females and with a language of discussion which is not appropriate.
My husband goes to the disco and cannot just enjoy the music but need also to try to get connected with women and start again his online and flirting activities. He also told me that i should do the same if i am not feeling loved. Simply he doesn't love me and doesn't want to do anything about solving our problems. he is denying and live as if it was me asking for too much. Now I am seen as a yelling person who disturb him as soon as i start to speak about our issues. I have also reached the point where i do not love my husband anymore and think about finding a man who at least can honor a woman if he decides to be with her. I am therefore strongly thinking about getting a divorce. The only problem i am facing is my husband doesn't want to divorce and he prefers if we live separate life but to stay married on paper. I told him that I am a Muslim and I have chosen this belief because i like its principles as a way of life. I also told him that if he realizes that Islam is not for him and he wants to pursue a life style of deviance (because for me asking your wife to go to another man and stay married on paper is deviance especially when flirt is involved) to go for it but in no way I am going to accept such things.
I still love my husband but his rejection toward me, his lack of love and attention are really killing me. I would love to be divorced and rebuild a life with someone who is a responsible husband and loving to his wife.
I would like to get your opinion on what you think is the best direction to take.

thanks a lot,
Samira

[Asha Hamat]

I am recently divorced; I have tried 8 years with my husband, He was not cooperative in most of the times. I had to take the decision before my kids grow older as it would effect them more once they are older.

We can't force people to change unless they want it and we can't force help unless they accept to receive it.

I took that decision after so many times of praying istekhara and consulting many counselors, psychiatrist, Shaikhs, family members from my side and his. It took me 2 years to decide that there is no way out.

[muslimah_B]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I come to this forum in order to ask you for your opinion/suggestions and recommendations before to apply for divorce.

I have been married 7 years. My husband and I are both converted Muslims and we have been struggling in our marriage only 1 year after the birth of our first child due to his lack of care toward me.
My husband without any explanation became distant, silent and cutting off communication between us only few months after our first child was born. I should say that before i married him, several people warned me about his mental instability. But I did not realize that something was wrong with him. NOw I became after going from frustration of not been loved a very angry person and when i talk to him i cannot even feel peace. I tried during almost 5 years to understand him, to know what was wrong with me, to ask him what the issues were, to buy books to help our marriage, to pray, to invite him to counselor and in all of that the only progress i could see is my husband was more and more distant. We are at the point that we are husband and wife only on paper. He will not communicate with me and live his life between his work, friends and also what i call flirts. I found my husband involved in several online chatting discussions with females and with a language of discussion which is not appropriate.
My husband goes to the disco and cannot just enjoy the music but need also to try to get connected with women and start again his online and flirting activities. He also told me that i should do the same if i am not feeling loved. Simply he doesn't love me and doesn't want to do anything about solving our problems. he is denying and live as if it was me asking for too much. Now I am seen as a yelling person who disturb him as soon as i start to speak about our issues. I have also reached the point where i do not love my husband anymore and think about finding a man who at least can honor a woman if he decides to be with her. I am therefore strongly thinking about getting a divorce. The only problem i am facing is my husband doesn't want to divorce and he prefers if we live separate life but to stay married on paper. I told him that I am a Muslim and I have chosen this belief because i like its principles as a way of life. I also told him that if he realizes that Islam is not for him and he wants to pursue a life style of deviance (because for me asking your wife to go to another man and stay married on paper is deviance especially when flirt is involved) to go for it but in no way I am going to accept such things.
I still love my husband but his rejection toward me, his lack of love and attention are really killing me. I would love to be divorced and rebuild a life with someone who is a responsible husband and loving to his wife.
I would like to get your opinion on what you think is the best direction to take.

thanks a lot,
Samira

Asalam alaykum sis

Im very sorry to hear about your situation, it must be very hard but keep your trust in Allah :)

Firstly, have you been able to talk to any of his family, maybe his mother or father or anyone who he listens to, they could possibly talk some sense into him, maybe him getting councilling or seeing an imam or maybe even rukiya ?

2. have you spoken to any imams or sheiks on this issue, as to what you can do, as they would be your best advice if you still want to go through with the divorce

3. Have you tried to sit down with him and speak to him in a calm manner, no shouting no aggro, just calmly with no attacks on his behaviour

4. Have you prayed istikara to see what you should do

5. Does he pray, does he fast, does he go jummah, does he talk about his deen, does he go masjid, does he have any religious friends ?

6. I have to ask, has he ever been violent or abusive to you or your child. And how is he with your child ?

[Samira23]

Salam Ailakoum Asha Hamat,
Thank you for your reply. I think I am at the same level of thinking that you had.
It is so much time and energy consuming to try to fix this marriage that I feel I would prefer to use this energy for something more positive. I am trying now to be patience with myself. First I work on being a role model for the family and mainly focus on the love of Allah, so I can detach myself emotionally from my husband, because I still feel an attachment to him. But I have to detach myself because it is becoming destructive. I feel I need to do this work first before to apply for a divorce because the emotional toll that such decision creates, requires to have positive energy in advance.

Thanks again.
Samira

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[Samira23]

Asalam alaykum sis

Im very sorry to hear about your situation, it must be very hard but keep your trust in Allah :)

Firstly, have you been able to talk to any of his family, maybe his mother or father or anyone who he listens to, they could possibly talk some sense into him, maybe him getting counselling or seeing an imam or maybe even rukiya ?

2. have you spoken to any imams or sheiks on this issue, as to what you can do, as they would be your best advice if you still want to go through with the divorce

3. Have you tried to sit down with him and speak to him in a calm manner, no shouting no aggro, just calmly with no attacks on his behaviour

4. Have you prayed istikara to see what you should do

5. Does he pray, does he fast, does he go jummah, does he talk about his deen, does he go masjid, does he have any religious friends ?

6. I have to ask, has he ever been violent or abusive to you or your child. And how is he with your child ?

Salam Alaikoum muslimah_B,

Thank you as well for your reply.
to answer your questions:

1. I tried to speak first to his sister, but because my husband doesn't have a close and good relationship with his family, I feel that his sister doesn't even understand what I am talking about.
I have also spoken to his mother and she does understand the matter, she has recommended to divorce for the sake of the kids mainly.
I also know that his mother has recommended to him several times to find a solution, to engage in communication but none of that is working.

2. I have talked to some imams who recommended similar approaches such as counselling, they also asked me to be patience and control my anger in the way i talked to my husband as this can only make the situation worst and that is what I am trying to do. They also told me to focus on the children in order to maintain a peaceful environment in the house. The problem with that is sometimes I feel I have to keep all in me.

3. I tried several times in a peaceful manner and my husband will literally stay silent or speak about something which has nothing to do with what I am asking him. His attitude is what started to make me irritated and talking without a calm voice finally after years of him behaving like that. But I pray to ask Allah to not make me slave of a person's behavior because that is definitely not good for my relationship with Allah, my health and my children. I try to not react when I see his attitude.

4. My husband has up and down and doesn't practice Islam regularly. In general my husband has a problem with rules, with regularity and if he starts to pray he quits pretty quickly. it is the same attitude with his job and what he commits to do and finally he will not do. It is interesting that you mentioned the point on friends because now that you highlight this, I realize that in our group of friends, there is one person who is a long time friend of my husband. They know each other even before I got married to my husband. This woman is not a Muslim (I should say that we both have very good Muslims as well as none Muslims friends). However this non Muslim friend of my husband in particular is a person I do not like. She has been asking my husband for financial support over the year. My husband has not always been working and I will be sometimes the one to maintain the whole family, pay the rent as well as other expenses and on top of that he will ask me if I can help his friend....which obviously I will say NO. This event has damaged our marriage quite deeply few years ago. My husband will tell me that I am a Muslim and I do not share my wealth with other. I mean this is a joke. Himself was not working, I had to pay for all expenses and also help his friend. incredible.

This friend of my husband also lives a life which I call deviant. I met this woman only once and I knew I will never spend extra time with her as she is really a manipulative, abusing people kindness and so on.
For me, she does illegal activities to live as she is not working and her partner is not working as well and they have 5 kids. Activities such as asking for money or probably earning money in illegal manners. That is just my feeling.

The problem is my husband has been friend with her for years, I also just dont understand how my husband can be friend with someone like that. The only thing he says when I ask about what he likes about this woman is: She is living her life without the rigid system of society rules. She lives like a hippie. Simply I feel this woman has a negative influence on my husband. What will be more accurate to say is she is a parasite living on people finance.

I dont see how I can make my husband realize that maybe he should drop this friend. I personally write to her few years ago to tell her, to not interact in my relationship with my husband. This woman has once invited my husband to go to a place to know other women and not for simple friendship. Also it is like my husband is controlled by her as himself doesnt understand that the way she lives and behaves is not matching our values at all. I simply cut off any discussions with that woman but I think she is still harassing my husband. I also told her that her lifestyle and her manner are not compatible with mine and that I dont want to entertain any activities with her.

5. He is a very good father. Sorry to say that but the children often recognize in Him the child that he is sometimes. So usually the children have a lot of fun with him. He has never been violent however whenever I talk about our issues he is silent and if I insist he will ask me to stop talking about it and at this moment I know he is mad because his voice says it.

In conclusion, what I am thinking to do is probably to leave him. It is tiring. Maybe when he will see that I am deciding to leave he will give consideration. Anyway he already told me to leave, it is me who kept believing that something could be solved. Also if there is one thing I would love to have is that this bad influence friend he has stop being part of his life but I dont know how you can explain this to a person who has been for years friend with her.

As Asha Hamat said: you cannot change people and at this point of my life, I really feel I need a change. Also when my husband is not around I feel at peace.

Thank again,
Samira.

[Umm Malik]

I understand you sister and I feel your pain
I have two different advices
The first one is if there is a hope or some love toward him
If there is that ... so think of the father of your child and think of him as a goal .. and tell yourself I will strive to be calm. . To try to understand him and to be his doctor and his medicine ... think of his pains his thinking and his Deen before every thing
If you know that you have power and patience to save him from shaytan and from his friends but with best way without saying any bad about them just be better than them and all this things which I asked you is to do for the sake of Allah
Be with as the prophet muhammad with the disbelievers
Ask Allah in your soujoud
In every time you ask him for comenication and don't want just dragging by easy way and go to your prayer and take your time in your sujoud ... tell yourself .. it may be a gift from Allah to me to remember my lord and ask him and he will answer for sure


Try to research or ask about his problem to know his problem exactly and you may be know how to make him good one day
I feel you sister
But I given you that advice to see you able to do that and if you have that power

And if you afraid about your child from him or about your Iman or feel like you want to follow his thinking about friends and disco .... then divorce will be the best choice

And If you think you can't live with him or you can't do more than make istikharah and may Allah make the good easy for you

[piXie]

My husband without any explanation became distant, silent and cutting off communication between us only few months after our first child was born. I should say that before i married him, several people warned me about his mental instability.

:salamext:

To what extent does he have a mental disability and what leads you to believe this? Secondly, from what you have told us it seems as though he suddenly became silent and cut off communication a few months after your first child was born. What was he like before then? Did you feel anything strange from him before? If not, then it's quite unusual for people to just suddenly become distant and leave communication without an explanation. Could there be a chance that sihr may be a contributing factor? While we shouldn't believe that everything that happens to us is related to that, it is definitely worth considering and checking because it is a reality that exists and quite common too.

May Allah rectify your affairs. Aameen

[muslimah_B]

Salam Alaikoum muslimah_B,

Thank you as well for your reply.
to answer your questions:

1. I tried to speak first to his sister, but because my husband doesn't have a close and good relationship with his family, I feel that his sister doesn't even understand what I am talking about.
I have also spoken to his mother and she does understand the matter, she has recommended to divorce for the sake of the kids mainly.
I also know that his mother has recommended to him several times to find a solution, to engage in communication but none of that is working.

2. I have talked to some imams who recommended similar approaches such as counselling, they also asked me to be patience and control my anger in the way i talked to my husband as this can only make the situation worst and that is what I am trying to do. They also told me to focus on the children in order to maintain a peaceful environment in the house. The problem with that is sometimes I feel I have to keep all in me.

3. I tried several times in a peaceful manner and my husband will literally stay silent or speak about something which has nothing to do with what I am asking him. His attitude is what started to make me irritated and talking without a calm voice finally after years of him behaving like that. But I pray to ask Allah to not make me slave of a person's behavior because that is definitely not good for my relationship with Allah, my health and my children. I try to not react when I see his attitude.

4. My husband has up and down and doesn't practice Islam regularly. In general my husband has a problem with rules, with regularity and if he starts to pray he quits pretty quickly. it is the same attitude with his job and what he commits to do and finally he will not do. It is interesting that you mentioned the point on friends because now that you highlight this, I realize that in our group of friends, there is one person who is a long time friend of my husband. They know each other even before I got married to my husband. This woman is not a Muslim (I should say that we both have very good Muslims as well as none Muslims friends). However this non Muslim friend of my husband in particular is a person I do not like. She has been asking my husband for financial support over the year. My husband has not always been working and I will be sometimes the one to maintain the whole family, pay the rent as well as other expenses and on top of that he will ask me if I can help his friend....which obviously I will say NO. This event has damaged our marriage quite deeply few years ago. My husband will tell me that I am a Muslim and I do not share my wealth with other. I mean this is a joke. Himself was not working, I had to pay for all expenses and also help his friend. incredible.

This friend of my husband also lives a life which I call deviant. I met this woman only once and I knew I will never spend extra time with her as she is really a manipulative, abusing people kindness and so on.
For me, she does illegal activities to live as she is not working and her partner is not working as well and they have 5 kids. Activities such as asking for money or probably earning money in illegal manners. That is just my feeling.

The problem is my husband has been friend with her for years, I also just dont understand how my husband can be friend with someone like that. The only thing he says when I ask about what he likes about this woman is: She is living her life without the rigid system of society rules. She lives like a hippie. Simply I feel this woman has a negative influence on my husband. What will be more accurate to say is she is a parasite living on people finance.

I dont see how I can make my husband realize that maybe he should drop this friend. I personally write to her few years ago to tell her, to not interact in my relationship with my husband. This woman has once invited my husband to go to a place to know other women and not for simple friendship. Also it is like my husband is controlled by her as himself doesnt understand that the way she lives and behaves is not matching our values at all. I simply cut off any discussions with that woman but I think she is still harassing my husband. I also told her that her lifestyle and her manner are not compatible with mine and that I dont want to entertain any activities with her.

5. He is a very good father. Sorry to say that but the children often recognize in Him the child that he is sometimes. So usually the children have a lot of fun with him. He has never been violent however whenever I talk about our issues he is silent and if I insist he will ask me to stop talking about it and at this moment I know he is mad because his voice says it.

In conclusion, what I am thinking to do is probably to leave him. It is tiring. Maybe when he will see that I am deciding to leave he will give consideration. Anyway he already told me to leave, it is me who kept believing that something could be solved. Also if there is one thing I would love to have is that this bad influence friend he has stop being part of his life but I dont know how you can explain this to a person who has been for years friend with her.

As Asha Hamat said: you cannot change people and at this point of my life, I really feel I need a change. Also when my husband is not around I feel at peace.

Thank again,
Samira.

Walaykum asalam warahmatullahi wabarakatahu sis

Ok so when you mention councilling what does he do ?
Is he willing to meet you half way and talk about things ?
Maybe write down how you feel ALL OF IT on a piece of paper and give it to him, and spend a few days at your families or something and see if that could help.

Yea that friendship needs to seriously be ended just for the simple fact that shes a women and there is no islamic basis for friendship between men & women especially since hes married, that definitely needs to be cut off 100% sis.
(Im sorry sis but if he is a muslim this friendship needs to be ended and with other women if he has any, and if you have any male friends it has to end, there's no way around it)

Have you tried rukiya on him it could maybe help things

And i also read that he changed straighy after the baby came, what sort of mental illness does he have ?
Was the mental illness very prominemt before the baby came ?

Like sister pixie mentioned it COULD be a case of evil eye, possibly even black magic as your husband is showing some signs of it, and it happend after your baby was born (and sometimes marriage & children bring jelous people) so it would be a very good idea to speak to an imam again or someone who performs rukiya (ONE WHO DOES NOT DABBLE IN TAWEEZ AT ALL IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM)

Does he have any reactions when Quran or the adhan is played ?
How does he act when you talk about Islam ?

http://www.ruqyahandhealing.com/contact/

Use this website to help you determine if this is the case for your husband, but either way sis he needs help and you need to put your foot down to make him get help

[ardianto]

:salamext:

To what extent does he have a mental disability and what leads you to believe this? Secondly, from what you have told us it seems as though he suddenly became silent and cut off communication a few months after your first child was born. What was he like before then? Did you feel anything strange from him before? If not, then it's quite unusual for people to just suddenly become distant and leave communication without an explanation. Could there be a chance that sihr may be a contributing factor? While we shouldn't believe that everything that happens to us is related to that, it is definitely worth considering and checking because it is a reality that exists and quite common too.

May Allah rectify your affairs. Aameen

:wasalamex

There is difference between mental disability which mean mental disorder, and mental instability which mean mentally unstable. From what I have noticed in sister Samira post, yes, his husband is mentally unstable.

People with unstable mental can be lovely at one time, but then become annoying, can give attention at one time, but then become selfish, can have good motivation to do his job, but then become lazy. People like this often want to be understood by the others, but not willing to understand the others. And sister Samira husband behavior which became distant, silent and cutting off communication, is his way to say that he want to be understood by sister Samira.

Unstable mental is a sign that someone still haven't mature although he/she has been adult. But what makes sister Samira husband still haven't mature?. He has too long gather with hedonistic people who indeed, are mentally unstable.

How to cure?. He should be gather with mature people who have goal in their life, thinking long about the future, have good motivation, and really work to reach their dream.

What sister Samira should do is motivate her husband to socialize with positive mature people and slowly try to drive her husband away from his hedonistic friends.

[piXie]

:wasalamex

There is difference between mental disability which mean mental disorder, and mental instability which mean mentally unstable. From what I have noticed in sister Samira post, yes, his husband is mentally unstable.

People with unstable mental can be lovely at one time, but then become annoying, can give attention at one time, but then become selfish, can have good motivation to do his job, but then become lazy. People like this often want to be understood by the others, but not willing to understand the others. And sister Samira husband behavior which became distant, silent and cutting off communication, is his way to say that he want to be understood by sister Samira.

Unstable mental is a sign that someone still haven't mature although he/she has been adult. But what makes sister Samira husband still haven't mature?. He has too long gather with hedonistic people who indeed, are mentally unstable.

How to cure?. He should be gather with mature people who have goal in their life, thinking long about the future, have good motivation, and really work to reach their dream.

What sister Samira should do is motivate her husband to socialize with positive mature people and slowly try to drive her husband away from his hedonistic friends.

Oh sorry, I didn't read it correctly and thought she said mental disability. My bad.

JazakAllaahu khairan

[Samira23]

Salam alaikoum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,

Thank you to all of you for the recommendations.
I have tried all of your advices and recommendations.
My husband has since my last post, increased his time away from home. Now every night he come back around 2am at home.

in the week-end he goes to the disco, and sleeps in hotel. His clothes smells the cigarettes and even alcohol.
I also think that he is dating someone else even if he says he does not.

I talked to him about Islam and reminded to him the principles. He said he is not interested in a rigid system with no freedom.
He has insulted me as well as my belief saying that it is a complete bullshit belief (May God forgives me) and said that we Muslims are rigid people and extremists.

Well, I will not give all irrelevant details.
I have decided to detach myself from such person who first does not even have the courage to be honest to me and recognize that simply he does not want to follow Islam but instead pursue vain goals.
Well, he is going to have time now for his flirt and enjoy his freedom.Allah (SWT) will take care of his case and reword him accordingly. We will see where this freedom takes him.
I have also decided to file for divorce because first i am tired of this person and also he is a lost person to my opinion. Nobody can help him except Allah SWT.
Also I would like to ask you a question: In such situation, are the kids allowed to interact with their father, especially that he is encouraging the children to doubt about Islam ? He is asking them if God exists because we do not see Him as well as many other statements.

My other question is if a person is a converted Muslim, can his certificate of conversion be revoked since he has rejected and denied Islam on several occasion including publicly ? My husband said that he never wanted Islam but did it to marry me. Is there a way to give him back fully his freedom including from a belief point of view so he will not complain that Islam is rigid, no freedom and that he was obliged to become Muslims ?

Jazak Allah Khair,
Samira