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ReboundMuslimah
08-09-2016, 05:33 PM


did i just hear that right???
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Aaqib
08-09-2016, 05:51 PM
I didn't hear drinking beer that will intoxicate you is halal, where does it say that?
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sister herb
08-09-2016, 06:03 PM
:ermm: I think they are talking about ice cream and possibility of minimum amount of alcohol they may use during its manufacturing process...

Or did I mishear it?

We should also know what was the question.
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cooterhein
08-09-2016, 07:24 PM
It's worth pointing out that about half of soft drinks that you can buy at any supermarket have trace amounts of alcohol. And I do mean trace amounts, they aren't even required to inform you on the packaging, it ranges from 0.10% alcohol to 0.5 or 0.6% alcohol. These are Tenths, not whole percentages. Some types of iced tea have trace amounts, like 1% or less. It isn't harmful, it doesn't mean anything, it won't intoxicate you. Unless of course it's hard iced tea, it happily informs you that it will intoxicate you, that is a different thing.

The point, I suppose, is that it doesn't make sense to have a truly zero-tolerance policy, if that means eliminating all alcohol even in its most trace amounts. It's not practical (or in keeping with religious law) that you should abstain from everything that has even a trace amount. You can really just ignore it, and drink your Sprite or eat your ice cream or enjoy your sweet tea as if it doesn't have any alcohol to speak of. It really doesn't. There's technically a trace little something, but nothing to be concerned about at all. The beer that Saudi Arabia allows for wide production and consumption most likely has three or four times as much alcohol, and that doesn't do anything either. It can be and is marketed as a non-alcoholic alternative, which it is. Like all non-alcoholic beer, it does have trace amounts.

Tl;dr there are trace amounts, really teeny tiny amounts, of alcohol in any average diet, probably in your diet. Don't do anything rash, don't be concerned. It's okay, from every standpoint you can think of.
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Abz2000
08-09-2016, 08:15 PM
Volume 7, Book 69, Number 487:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:'Umar stood up on the pulpit and said, "Now then, prohibition of alcoholic drinks have been revealed, and these drinks are prepared from five things, i.e.. grapes, dates, honey, wheat or barley And an alcoholic drink is that, that disturbs the mind.

Volume 7, Book 69, Number 492:
Narrated 'Aisha:Allah's Apostle was asked about Al-Bit a liquor prepared from honey which the Yemenites used to drink. Allah's Apostle said, "All drinks that intoxicate are unlawful (to drink)."

Volume 7, Book 69, Number 497:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:When the Prophet forbade the use of certain containers (that were used for preparing alcoholic drinks), somebody said to the Prophet . "But not all the people can find skins." So he allowed them to use clay jars not covered with pitch.

Volume 7, Book 69, Number 502:Narrated Sahl bin SadAbu Usaid As Sa'idi invited the Prophet to his wedding banquet. At that time his wife was serving them and she was the bride. She said, ''Do you know what (kind of syrup) I soaked (made) for Allah's Apostle? I soaked some dates in water in a Tur (bowl) overnight. '

The above ahadith give a clear guidance on so called "legal highs", and the fact that the dates were soaked overnight indicates that tiny levels of unintended fermentation which didn't cloud the mind and prevent absolute clarity of thought weren't considered worthy of OCD style checking.

Sometimes our vomit tastes like alcohol and some lawful foods such as sugar make us high (especially the kids), and ginger "beer" is understood as root ginger blended with lemonade and is not haram if drunk (as long as you don't get a cloudy mind purposefully from the sugar lol) it is haram to force someone to take intoxicating alcohol but Allah would forgive the one who is forced and drinks without willful disobedience, just a case of using sense.
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jabeady
08-09-2016, 08:17 PM
Question: There's a scene in the movie The 13th Warrior, where a Viking offers a Muslim a drink of mead. The Muslim declines because he can't drink fermented fruit. The Viking informs him that the mead is made from honey and the Muslim then drinks it. FYI mead is also marketed as Honey Wine, and is made from fermented honey. If I drink it on an empty stomach, half a glass very relaxing.

So, is mead permitted or forbidden?
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startingarabic
08-09-2016, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by jabeady
Question: There's a scene in the movie The 13th Warrior, where a Viking offers a Muslim a drink of mead. The Muslim declines because he can't drink fermented fruit. The Viking informs him that the mead is made from honey and the Muslim then drinks it. FYI mead is also marketed as Honey Wine, and is made from fermented honey. If I drink it on an empty stomach, half a glass very relaxing.

So, is mead permitted or forbidden?
lol we dont take our religion from movies
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Abz2000
08-09-2016, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by jabeady
Question: There's a scene in the movie The 13th Warrior, where a Viking offers a Muslim a drink of mead. The Muslim declines because he can't drink fermented fruit. The Viking informs him that the mead is made from honey and the Muslim then drinks it. FYI mead is also marketed as Honey Wine, and is made from fermented honey. If I drink it on an empty stomach, half a glass very relaxing.

So, is mead permitted or forbidden?
Honey is amongst the few mentioned condiments (hadith above) from which it is forbidden to purposefully and knowingly make intoxicants, the following hadith should clarify further:

Book 23, Number 4971:
Ibn 'Abbas reported that Nabidh was prepared for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) in the beginning of the night and he would drink it in the morning and the following night and the following day and the night after that up to the afternoon. If anything was left out of that he gave it to his servant, or gave orders for it to be poured out.

Book 23, Number 4972:
Ibn 'Abbas reported that Nabidh was prepared for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) in the waterskin, Shu'ba said: It was the night of Monday. He drank it on Monday and on Tuesday up to the afternoon, and If anything was left out of it he gave it to his servant or poured it out.


If the reported hadith is true:
ou can see clearly that the Prophet pbuh was not only particular about adhering to the law of prohibition, but was also very careful to avoid risking the slightest haziness even if his method of preparing fruit juice was far from the conventional method of making wine, it seems obvious that he saw wisdom in Allah's guidance and felt that even the slightest risk of haziness would be detrimental to him in his huge everyday responsibilities and requirement to be able to think clearly even if the extent the drink had reached was lawful for him, and he would give it to someone who stood to risk less or just chucked it.
There are definitely practical considerations taken into account beside the legal prohibition.


More details here:

http://www.iium.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/023_smt.html

And here:
http://sunnah.com/urn/515550
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Muhammad
08-09-2016, 08:33 PM
:salamext:

He is referring to percentages of alcohol in things that don't intoxicate. It is not a blanket statement that alcohol is allowed. See his reply here:
http://www.assimalhakeem.net/sheikh-...c-beers-haram/

Note that there is non-alcoholic 'beer', so the terms can cause confusion.

And Allaah :swt: knows best.
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AabiruSabeel
08-09-2016, 08:49 PM
Please see a detailed discussion about the production of non-Alcoholic bear and wine here: http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/19680


It says in the Fatwa:

1. Alcohol free wine or beer is made from real wine or beer. Wines from grape, date, honey, wheat is Khamr and Khamr is Haram according to several ahadith.


It says in another Fatwa there: http://askimam.org/public/question_detail/6.html

Principally, if the alcohol is extracted from grapes or dates it is not permissible. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, "Khamr (wine) is from these two trees, dates and grapes." (Mishkãt p. 317). Furthermore, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, 'Alcohol itself is prohibited and intoxication in every other beverage.' (Hidaaya vol. 4 p. 497).

However, if the alcohol in foods is not from dates or grape extract but from, for example, ethanol which is fermented from sugar cane mollasses and does not intoxicate, then it is permissible.
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Scimitar
08-09-2016, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
:salamext:

He is referring to percentages of alcohol in things that don't intoxicate. It is not a blanket statement that alcohol is allowed. See his reply here:
http://www.assimalhakeem.net/sheikh-...c-beers-haram/

Note that there is non-alcoholic 'beer', so the terms can cause confusion.

And Allaah :swt: knows best.
the shaikh mentioned 2% alcohol beer though

scimi
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Muhammad
08-09-2016, 10:26 PM
True, he seems to be referring to beer that has a percentage of alcohol, like other products that have small amounts of alcohol that don't intoxicate. The main thing though is that he isn't referring to the kind of beer that often comes to mind when the word is used.
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Scimitar
08-09-2016, 11:43 PM
I don't know bro, he seemed to be quite unclear in what he said. To me it seems as though he is giving two messages - 1) that its ok to consume beer with low percentages within limits and 2) that it's not ok to consume too much ice cream because it will make you fat - which is kinda beside the point.

I'm more concerned with point 1. "I drink beer and I am proud of that, but the beer I drink, is from saudi arabia and it has like maybe 2 or 3 % alcohol, and it's lega...l" and then quoting hadeeth regarding "anything which intoxicates in a large amount is also forbidden in a small amount"... that's what i have an issue with because he is inconsistent and seems to be justifying beer because - ice cream. I mean, lol.

Scimi
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jabeady
08-10-2016, 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by startingarabic
lol we dont take our religion from movies
Well, yeah, but what a lot of the West knows about Islam *does* come from the movies. Kingdom of God, The Wind and the Lion, Lawrence of Arabia, The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad, Disney's Aladdin... Movies and the headlines.

I'm the only person I know who's thought to actually ask some Muslims (that's you) about what's real and what isn't. Other than the movies, the only thing I've previously read about Arabs and Muslims is With Lawrence in Arabia, by Lowell Thomas.
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Search
08-10-2016, 12:39 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Originally Posted by jabeady
I'm the only person I know who's thought to actually ask some Muslims (that's you) about what's real and what isn't.
That's because you're intelligent. And intelligent people do intelligent things. ;)
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kritikvernunft
08-10-2016, 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by cooterhein
...if that means eliminating all alcohol even in its most trace amounts...
Fungi, aka. microscopic mushrooms, such as yeast, are everywhere. In our food, but also on our bodies. They automatically attack sugars and convert part of them into ethanol (=alcohol). Attacking these omnipresent fungi with antifungals in order to prevent all forms of fermentation that would leave traces of ethanol, is a dangerous activity:

Antifungals work by exploiting differences between mammalian and fungal cells to kill the fungal organism with fewer adverse effects to the host. Unlike bacteria, both fungi and humans are eukaryotes. Thus, fungal and human cells are similar at the biological level. This makes it more difficult to discover drugs that target fungi without affecting human cells. As a consequence, many antifungal drugs cause side-effects. Some of these side-effects can be life-threatening if the drugs are not used properly.

I think it is obvious that you should not try to remove traces of fungal activity in your food. If the traces are really noticeable, then just throw away the food, but do not biochemically treat it ...
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jabeady
08-10-2016, 02:44 AM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

That's because you're intelligent. And intelligent people do intelligent things. ;)
It takes intelligence to recognize intelligence. [emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1]
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jabeady
08-10-2016, 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by kritikvernunft
Fungi, aka. microscopic mushrooms, such as yeast, are everywhere. In our food, but also on our bodies. They automatically attack sugars and convert part of them into ethanol (=alcohol). Attacking these omnipresent fungi with antifungals in order to prevent all forms of fermentation that would leave traces of ethanol, is a dangerous activity:

Antifungals work by exploiting differences between mammalian and fungal cells to kill the fungal organism with fewer adverse effects to the host. Unlike bacteria, both fungi and humans are eukaryotes. Thus, fungal and human cells are similar at the biological level. This makes it more difficult to discover drugs that target fungi without affecting human cells. As a consequence, many antifungal drugs cause side-effects. Some of these side-effects can be life-threatening if the drugs are not used properly.

I think it is obvious that you should not try to remove traces of fungal activity in your food. If the traces are really noticeable, then just throw away the food, but do not biochemically treat it ...
BTW, there is a medical condition where an afflicted person's digestive tract can turn food into alcohol. I forget what it's called, and I don't know whether it involves all food or just certain kinds.

How would Islam handle that? I'm guessing, from what I've seen on IB so far, that some kind of accommodation would be possible.
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cooterhein
08-11-2016, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
the shaikh mentioned 2% alcohol beer though

scimi
That easily qualifies as non-alcoholic beer, and is most likely marketed exactly that way.
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talibilm
08-12-2016, 04:33 AM
:sl:

Brothers here have given reasonable daleel and practical difficulties but those who want to follow orthodox Islam should take care of these hadiths as well.

(Sunan Abu Dawud Book #26, Hadith #3673, Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Sunan al-Nasa’i and others)
Sayyiduna Jabir ibn Abd Allah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is also forbidden.”


Prophet:saws: have told us to PROTECT our Eeman by AVOIDING DOUBTFUL THINGS even if it was not EXPLICITLY mentioned in Quran and the following hadith will add to CONFIRM our stance that's to be avoided.


(Bukhari Book #2, Hadith #49) & (Muslim)
Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir: I heard Allah's Apostle saying,"The halal is clear and the haram is clear, and between them are matters unclear that are unknown to most people. Whoever is wary of these unclear matters has absolved his religion and honour. And whoever indulges in them has indulged in the haram. It is like a shepherd who herds his sheep too close to preserved sanctuary, and they will eventually graze in it. Every king has a sanctuary, and the sanctuary of Allah is what He has made haram. There lies within the body a piece of flesh. If it is sound, the whole body is sound; and if it is corrupted, the whole body is corrupted. Verily this piece is the heart."


And there is hadith which said something like during the last days of the world wine will be drunk by naming it as something else adds to our doubts on this issue.
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Scimitar
08-12-2016, 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by cooterhein
That easily qualifies as non-alcoholic beer, and is most likely marketed exactly that way.
Lol you must qualify as substantial Christian then right?

Scimi
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cooterhein
08-12-2016, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Lol you must qualify as substantial Christian then right?

Scimi
I don't think I understand the reference.

From a legal and marketing standpoint and not from any particularly religious one, beverages marked "non-alcoholic" may sometimes be totally alcohol-free, but the label can also be applied to beverages with trace amounts of alcohol. The exact cutoff may vary by country, but 1% would be a pretty good guess.

There is a different range of alcohol content (1-3% is an okay guess for the range) where non-alcoholic no longer applies, instead you'd have to label it as low-alcohol.

Now, if we make a pivot to prohibitions for religious reasons, it's well worth mentioning that low-alcohol beer is disallowed. It would take quite a bit of it to have an effect, but it's not totally unrealistic.

However, it's also well worth pointing out that trace amounts are allowable, in that very small non-zero amounts of alcohol are permissible on religious grounds and it corresponds with the tendency to label such things as non-alcoholic on non-religious grounds. In other words, a non-alcoholic label is never meant to be a guarantee that the drink has zero alcohol- it might be zero, but it indicates that it falls in the range of zero to one percent and guarantees that it will have zero effect.

I'm sorry that I didn't understand the substantial Christian reference, but it's nice that I could help you lol.
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