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Mustafa16
08-24-2016, 12:36 AM
I know that you go to heaven if you believe and if your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds, but didn't Allah already decide if you are going to heaven or hell? doesn't that mean we have no free will?
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Aaqib
08-24-2016, 12:38 AM
Assalamuaikum, and peace be upon you

We do have free will, but Allah, the Lord of the Worlds, knows what we'll do, and where we go.
This is what I think, correct me if this is wrong.

Jzk
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Little_Lion
08-24-2016, 01:39 AM
https://youtu.be/FXdXfTBvy6k?t=48s

Edit: even better video: https://youtu.be/9BF_1Ba4xfg
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drac16
08-24-2016, 04:55 AM
We have the freedom to choose, but Allah knows what choice we will make. It's like a kid and two bowls. Let's say that you put ice cream in one bowl and rocks in the other bowl. Tell the kid to eat whichever one he wants. Obviously he will choose the ice cream to eat, but you didn't force him to choose the ice cream. To me, it is such a tremendous comfort to know that, before the world began, God selected me to be a muslim. Not because I'm greater than everyone else, but because He wanted to glorify Himself and chose me to be an instrument whereby He would bring glory to Himself. Subhanallah! :D
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Abz2000
08-24-2016, 07:24 AM
Al Qadr is a mystery of Allah best left to Allah, our duty is to obey Allah and be just.
if uncertain, maybe try starving yourself for a day or few, i'm sure you'll decide that al qadr is best left to Allah, and that you should do your best to obey Allah and do what is just. :)
And you'll still find your whole story recorded beforehand.
don't stress you'll go nuts before you fully comprehend it.


81.*And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
82.*We send down (stage by stage) in the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe: to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss.
83.*Yet when We bestow Our favours on man, he turns away and becomes remote on his side (instead of coming to Us), and when evil seizes him he gives himself up to despair!
84.*Say: "Everyone acts according to his own disposition: But your Lord knows best who it is that is best guided on the Way."
85.*They ask thee concerning the spirit/soul Say: "The spirit/soul is from the command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you."
86.*If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee by inspiration:then wouldst thou find none to plead thy affair in that matter as against Us,
87.*Except for Mercy from thy Lord: for his bounty is to thee (indeed) great.


سَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ أَشْرَكُواْ لَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا أَشْرَكْنَا وَلاَ آبَاؤُنَا وَلاَ حَرَّمْنَا مِن شَيْءٍ كَذَلِكَ كَذَّبَ الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِم حَتَّى ذَاقُواْ بَأْسَنَا قُلْ هَلْ عِندَكُم مِّنْ عِلْمٍ فَتُخْرِجُوهُ لَنَا إِن تَتَّبِعُونَ إِلاَّ الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ أَنتُمْ إَلاَّ تَخْرُصُونَ

{148*006:148*Khan:
Those who took partners (in worship) with Allah will say:
"If Allah had willed, we would not have taken partners (in worship) with Him, nor would our fathers, and we would not have forbidden anything (against His Will)."
Likewise belied those who were before them, (they argued falsely with Allah's Messengers), till they tasted of Our Wrath.
Say: "Have you any knowledge (proof) that you can produce before us? Verily, you follow nothing but guess and you do nothing but lie."

(If anyone tells you that their injustice is Allah's will - so too is your retaliation.
and Allah's wrath and mercy with which He inflicts those whom He wills - is also Allah's will)
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aaj
08-24-2016, 04:18 PM
This topic confuses many.

Al Qadr is what is your destiny and written for you. Example: you will make $2 million in your life time

Free will is how you fulfill your Qadr. Ex: you can make that money haram way (stealing, gambling) or halal way (job, business).

Allah says in the Quran addressing the believers:
"This is Paradise; you have inherited it by virtue of your past deeds" .(Surah Az-Zukhruf 72).


The very first thing Allah created was a kalam (pen) and then told it to write all that is and that will ever be. In that writing somewhere is your life story, written what you will do and what choices you will make and where you will end up. Allah has given us free will but He also has the knowledge of the ghaib (unknown) so He already knows what choices we will make and where we will make our bed. So that is what is meant in what is written down already about us.

Now to make it a bit more complicated. That Qadr of your can change as well. You could make $0 in life or you could make $10 million in life. You could have a happy marriage or never get married. Three things can influence this Qadr of yours. They are dua, sihr (magic) and hasad(evil eye).


Allahu Alim
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ardianto
08-24-2016, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
Al Qadr is what is your destiny and written for you. Example: you will make $2 million in your life time
No, no, rizky (sustenance) that someone will get in his life is not destined before, but this is the result of his ikhtiar (effort) in his life.

If someone born in rich family, or in poor family. Or born in UK or in Pakistan. Yes, this is qadar. A destiny that cannot be changed.

But the rizky that someone will get is not qadar because anyone can determine his/her own future through ikhtiar. If he do an effort to gain rizky seriously, In Shaa Allah he would get many rizky, but if not, then he wouldn't.
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aaj
08-24-2016, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
No, no, rizky (sustenance) that someone will get in his life is not destined before, but this is the result of his ikhtiar (effort) in his life.

If someone born in rich family, or in poor family. Or born in UK or in Pakistan. Yes, this is qadar. A destiny that cannot be changed.

But the rizky that someone will get is not qadar because anyone can determine his/her own future through ikhtiar. If he do an effort to gain rizky seriously, In Shaa Allah he would get many rizky, but if not, then he wouldn't.
“everyone of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first 40 days in the form of a seed, and then he becomes a clot for another 40 days, and then a lump of flesh for another 40 days.

Then Allah sends an angel to write four things. He writes his deeds, time of death, sustenance, and whether he will be happy or unhappy in the (Hereafter).

Then the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of hell until there is but an arms length between him and hell, and that which has been written by the angel overtakes him and so he begins to behave like the people of paradise and thus he enters it. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of people of paradise until there is but an arm's length between him and paradise, and that which has been written overtakes him and so he behaves like the people of hell and thus he enters it.”
( Sahih Al-bukhari and Sahih Muslim ).
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Serinity
08-24-2016, 05:53 PM
Qadr is a confusing topic cuz it is hard/out of our comphrehension.

we have dua to "change" our qadar, but there is qadr that is unchangable. I assume all the duas and changes we make, is already written down. Allah :swt: already knew what you do etc. So He :swt: willed before hand, commanded the pen to write beforehand.

Every change-etc. is written beforehand.

Any scholar can correct me tho. EVERYTHING is written in a tablet preserved. Everything is created, written, willed, and known by Allah. Even the duas that change our destiny. Allah already knows and willed.

To not confuse matters:

Everything is created, written, willed and known by Allah 100%. and we have free will.

It is incorrect to assume that you can change what is written - you can not. Everything is already predestined! But we have free will, that is PART of predestination!

we can not assume that we can change what is written - we can not. What we can "change" by dua, is ALREADY written down. So no matter how rebellious one might be, it is written down.

Btw, I feel that it is kufr to assume that you can do what is not written down for you. @scholars can correct. @Huzaifah ibn Adam correct me if I am wrong.

Everything we do is written down. Allahu alam.
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Umm Malik
08-24-2016, 05:59 PM
It's harde for us to understand everything about it but I will tell you
Allah has destined everything for us ... but he tell us that he is the truth and he judge us by the true
So ... even the people who will get to heal they will say that is the truth because they will know why
But the god who give reward to his servants for few things just by saying subhallah you get a tree in junnah and the god who will wieght your good and bad deeds even jot is he want to harm your rights ???
If I say destiny and I sit in my place would I found my food ??
Can you say this is kadar and you don't study .. you don't work just because of the kadar ??
The same is for worshipping Allah , you can't say is my kadar to be like this ... we have head to think
And even if it some things are harder for us to understand because of our knowledge or the big of this thing ...we already have a lot of things that the coran tell us about
So the best for us is to do
And when you see Allah you will know better but as a beliver in the paradise not as a disbeliever in the hell after is too late
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greenhill
08-24-2016, 11:14 PM
Because of our limited understanding of things it is very hard to imagine. So I will give you an analogy..

Say you are a creator of a modern combat game. Are all the options preprogrammed within the game already? All the possible outcomes (whether you can die within seconds of playing or surviving and making to the end).

You put in your input. The creator of the game decides NOT what choices you make.

Does that make sense?


:peace:
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'abd al-hakeem
08-27-2016, 05:53 PM
,...
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M.I.A.
08-27-2016, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I know that you go to heaven if you believe and if your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds, but didn't Allah already decide if you are going to heaven or hell? doesn't that mean we have no free will?
well it's like when people tell you how to be, which mistakes not to make..

you politely nod your head and then proceed to forget..

and do what you want anyway.

some people don't make those mistakes.

the irony is, there are always new mistakes to make..

ultimately Allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.


let's see who goes back well satisfied.

and who goes back worn to the bone.


fortunately the better you get, the worse they will look..

although the outcome may be the same.


always wear a seat belt.


...I'm going home clean as a whistle.


my face dropped the day I realised they don't want hard work.
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'abd al-hakeem
08-27-2016, 09:15 PM
*edit removed video - mislead by wrong title
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Akeyi
12-31-2016, 08:53 PM
Let me explain to you if you are unenabled to understand

it is like an elevator inside a weatherforecast situation in libya

we all know where libya is but if i ask someone where is libya he wont be angry to me
but if i ask someone in libya where is libya he will call me stupid

while we are in elevator we can choose whatever floor we want to go

allah knows which floor we will go and our choices are limited there are only some floors

but allah knows which floor we will go like we know the weather forecast but with absolut truth
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ajazz
01-12-2017, 10:57 PM
Free Will… does it even exist?... scientific and Islamic perspective
· Our universe had a beginning and was created. [1]
· Our universe is a deterministic system.
A
Deterministic System is governed by a set of laws pre-defined by its designer (creator).

We
Know Free will exist, the very fact that you choose to believe in God
Or not to believe and people can be forced against their will, proves
Free Will exist.

The paradox… Than can free will and determinism co-exist?

First lets define Free Will…
Human bodies are made of atoms and molecules and it has deterministic attributes.

Physical actions of our body are driven by two things.

1)
Auto response built into our system, for example if you hold
Something very hot, you drop it immediately without thinking, this is an Auto response of your body,

2)
Our thoughts also drive our bodies into physical action.
Suppose you are standing in a crowded place and all the seats are occupied,
And
You think as soon as someone vacates a chair you will immediately go
And sit and somebody does vacate the seat, you immediately go and sit
Down.

Now before you sat down you had already determined the
Physical action that will take place, this is pre-determination, the act
Of going and sitting was the result of the deterministic nature of your
Body and it was the thought that was responsible for this physical act,

Our thoughts exhibit physical electro-chemical reactions; they can be recognized as electrical signals in our brain.

Scientists
Today are able to detect, intercept, analyze and to some extent
Determine what physical response they can elicit in our body.
Using
This knowledge they are able to make gadgets that can be driven by our
Thoughts in fact one scientist was able to move his colleague’s hand by
Using his thought.

_“University of Washington researcher Rajesh
Rao sends a brain signal to Andrea Stocco via the Internet, causing
Stocco's right hand to move on a keyboard.”_
http://goo.gl/4npF9E

Multiple thoughts can occur in our brain and many times conflict with each other.
Our ability to choose which thought manifests itself into physical action is our Free Will.
Whether this choice manifest itself into actual physical action is immaterial.

Unlike
Our thoughts Free will does not exhibit physical existence just like
'information' exist but cannot be defined in terms of physical attributes.

Free Will is a separate component from the deterministic mechanism of our body.

Not everything that exists in our universe has free will.
Also our free will has limits; we can choose but have limited options.

You cannot will and become ‘Prince Charming’ if you are a Toad you remain a Toad… :(

So if Humans have free will can they influence the future? There by undermining the deterministic nature of our universe.

No…!!! They cannot…

Well…
You may believe that the actions we take can influence our future
But this is not true, for us to have ability to influence the future our past must exist, we must be able to go back to the past.
But we cannot go back in our past, simply because our past does not exist…! Only our present moment exist, we cannot reverse time.

Let’s
Say you want to become a surgeon you work hard and you are almost there
But suddenly you are struck by tremor or shaky hand syndrome, all your planning and hard work has come to naught, you failed to influence your future.
You
May argue that though we don’t have full control of our future but there are
Many examples where people succeed when they plan ahead and make right
Choices and thereby have controlled their future.
Or
The principle of cause and effect.
Let’s say you kick a ball and it lands exactly in the right corner of the goal post.
The kick (cause) is the past when the ball land in the goal, landing of the ball is the future (effect).

Well no…!

According to Islamic principle of Qadr and latest scientific research.
Landing of the ball (future) is the cause, you kicking the ball (present) is the effect..!


The future is the cause and present is the effect…!

In
Islam there is concept known as al-qaḍāʾ wa al-qadr.



It is one of the article of faith in Islam.
The phrase means "the divine decree and the predestination";

"No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves
But is inscribed in the Book of Decrees -- (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz),
Before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allah"
(The Noble Qur'an Al-Hadid 57:22)

Allah (swt)
Ordered to be written in the Preserved Tablet ("al-Lauḥ
Al-Maḥfūẓ") all that has happened and will happen, which will come to
Pass as written. According to this belief, a person's action is not
Caused by what is written in the Preserved Tablet but, rather, the
Action is written in the Preserved Tablet because Allah (swt) already
Knows all occurrences without the restrictions of time.


So if everything is predestined then there is no free will.
And the concept of reward and punishment is meaningless…!

So how do you reconcile the two?


And this is how it works.

Our present is not defined by the choices we made in the past

According to Islam
Our present is defined by the Preserved Tablet ("al-Lauḥ al-Maḥfūẓ") that Allah (swt) had ordered written.

Only our present is relevant, our future is yet to happen.
And
Our present is defined by the future which is already written in the Preserved Tablet.

Once
We make a choice it becomes our past and it has
no influence on our Present we can only move forward in time and cannot go back.

Arrow of Time, does not allow us to change any event from past.
Because our past does not exist...!
Only our present and our future exist.

Does this sound logical?

Well... It is; in fact science agrees and have scientific evidence. For it.

"Experiment suggests that reality doesn't exist until it is measured"

http://www.gizmag.com/quantum-theory-reality-anu/37866/


“Quantum experiments shows that measurements performed in the future can influence the present.. The laws of physics pull us inexorably toward our
prewritten fate?”

_“quantum experiments confirm... Measurements performed in the future can influence results that happened before those measurements
Were ever made..”_

http://goo.gl/EXWcP8


This is predestination in Islam…!!!

Fate in Islam: http://goo.gl/eFHB7D

Everything that has had happened and will happen cannot happen without the will of Allah (swt).

You may ask, evil things happen in our world does that mean it is the will of Allah (swt)?

Yes…!

Allah (swt) allows evil things to take place, but he is not responsible for it.
People by their free choices are responsible for evil.
And they will be held accountable for it.
And the one against whom injustice is done will be compensated for it.

Nothing
Can take place against the will of Allah (swt) if anything takes
Place against the will of Allah (swt) then it will mean he is not all
Powerful and is not in control of everything.

By De-linking our past actions from our present and by linking our present to the future.

Allah (swt)
Has allowed us to exercise our Free Will, in spite of predetermination.

Kept the deterministic attribute of our universe intact

And showed us that
nothing can happen against his will.

Pretty neat huh...!

Happy free willing…
Ajazz Shake.

Allah (swt) alone knows best. He is alone is possessor of absolute knowledge.

Related Topic: Existence of God, scientific perspective
https://plus.google.com/u/0/11071685...ts/KUDDAqiNG6f

[1] http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html
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