Ghosts graveyards and jinns

[cooterhein]

As it so happens, I currently live right near one of the most haunted places in the US. It's called Bachelor's Grove Cemetery, and if the weather's good I could walk there within an hour, or I could take ten minutes and drive there (but only in the daytime, there's no good place to park if it's night). Here's a site that gives you a bunch of details about haunting events that have been reported in or near it. http://www.prairieghosts.com/bachgrov.html

Now, as a Christian, I don't take this sort of thing very seriously. I don't believe in ghosts, and some of the things that happen there most commonly have perfectly reasonable explanations. It is fun though, just to see what it's like at night and to have a bit of an experience. I have some fun with it, but I don't take it seriously.

What I'd like to know is would Muslims tend to take it seriously, and to what extent could jinns be involved. Here's a bit of the general situation. The graveyard is out of the way and back in the woods, so there have been some shenanigans over the past 100 plus years. Grave robbers have dug up bodies, quite a few graves have been desecrated and even though a couple of restoration efforts have made most of it look right again, two or three of the really enormous tombstones are still on their sides. It would take some serious equipment (and permission to use it there) in order to get them back upright, these things weight a couple of tons. Additionally, there is a small but deep lake conveniently located between the graveyard and the nearest road. It is rumored that certain elements of Chicago's organized crime during Prohibition would dump some bodies there, and it also seems like a convenient place to execute someone and get away with it.

The upshot is that the combination of violent deaths, post-burial desecration, and just a bit of the Satanic element that the location has attracted (it's a solid place for occult-related rituals) has led to an exceptional situation for disturbed and tortured souls. There are also a couple of recurring stories of apparitions, and people will sometimes talk about curses or an evil presence that they picked up while there and then whatever that unseen thing is, it comes home with them and makes trouble. Then I guess they try and do something to get rid of it and restore their peace of mind.

Again, as a Christian, I don't take any of this seriously. I wonder though, how much of this sort of thing aligns with Islamic beliefs about jinns? Does some of this make you think, Yeah that makes some sense according to my understanding of jinns? Are there other parts of it that make you think, No that hasn't got anything to do with my beliefs at all?

[Born_Believer]

I'm curious why you use your Christianity as a way of not taking this stuff seriously yet the Bible talks of demons. Do you not believe in that portion?

[Serinity]

What does it matter whether Jinns wander about in graveyards? Doesn't concern us, imo.

[jabeady]

I lived next to a Catholic cemetery for several years. The cemetery had a lack of trees, therefore a much better view of the sky than I had from my yard. I routinely would take advantage of a break in the fence to haul my telescope over there for astronomy sessions, and would often be there all night. The worst hazard I ever faced was a family of skunks, and they soon became used to me, so no problem. No spirits, ghosts, orbs, angels, demons, whatever.

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[sister herb]

Jinns don´t exit at the graveyards because there are dead bodies but because it´s unclean place (as like a bathroom or a garbage dump).

Have you ever went to your bathroom check if there is any ghost?

Anyways, jinns aren´t ghosts neither tortured souls.

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ight=graveyard - post 105

I am wondering why here is now so many threads about jinns.

[jabeady]

Jinns don´t exit at the graveyards because there are dead bodies but because it´s unclean place (as like a bathroom or a garbage dump).

Have you ever went to your bathroom check if there is any ghost?

Err... No, can't say as I have. I generally go in there to read, or just to think.

Do they tickle?

Anyways, jinns aren´t ghosts neither tortured souls.

I am wondering why here is now so many threads about jinns.

Wasn't my idea. Atheists don't often discuss such things.

[sister herb]

^^ My post was answer to the member who started this thread as he seems to be interesting about such matters. I am not surprise if atheists in general don´t disguss about ghosts (or jinns).

[M.I.A.]

As it so happens, I currently live right near one of the most haunted places in the US. It's called Bachelor's Grove Cemetery, and if the weather's good I could walk there within an hour, or I could take ten minutes and drive there (but only in the daytime, there's no good place to park if it's night). Here's a site that gives you a bunch of details about haunting events that have been reported in or near it. http://www.prairieghosts.com/bachgrov.html

Now, as a Christian, I don't take this sort of thing very seriously. I don't believe in ghosts, and some of the things that happen there most commonly have perfectly reasonable explanations. It is fun though, just to see what it's like at night and to have a bit of an experience. I have some fun with it, but I don't take it seriously.

What I'd like to know is would Muslims tend to take it seriously, and to what extent could jinns be involved. Here's a bit of the general situation. The graveyard is out of the way and back in the woods, so there have been some shenanigans over the past 100 plus years. Grave robbers have dug up bodies, quite a few graves have been desecrated and even though a couple of restoration efforts have made most of it look right again, two or three of the really enormous tombstones are still on their sides. It would take some serious equipment (and permission to use it there) in order to get them back upright, these things weight a couple of tons. Additionally, there is a small but deep lake conveniently located between the graveyard and the nearest road. It is rumored that certain elements of Chicago's organized crime during Prohibition would dump some bodies there, and it also seems like a convenient place to execute someone and get away with it.

The upshot is that the combination of violent deaths, post-burial desecration, and just a bit of the Satanic element that the location has attracted (it's a solid place for occult-related rituals) has led to an exceptional situation for disturbed and tortured souls. There are also a couple of recurring stories of apparitions, and people will sometimes talk about curses or an evil presence that they picked up while there and then whatever that unseen thing is, it comes home with them and makes trouble. Then I guess they try and do something to get rid of it and restore their peace of mind.

Again, as a Christian, I don't take any of this seriously. I wonder though, how much of this sort of thing aligns with Islamic beliefs about jinns? Does some of this make you think, Yeah that makes some sense according to my understanding of jinns? Are there other parts of it that make you think, No that hasn't got anything to do with my beliefs at all?

It's a shame they canceled Constantine after one season.. englishmen don't do well in America apparently.

at the end of the day we are all human. although monsters within our own lives.

...why does any evil have to visit when we have ourselves to worry about?

maybe as a Christian you have no idea what I'm talking about, just as well.

let's not be made aware of any cursed earth and desecrated ground.

if tortured souls have any sway in our lives is literally a matter of faith or dismission.

[noraina]

I live near the countryside, and literally a 30 second walk away is the graveyard of our town. Not directly opposite my house, but if I look through my bedroom window I can see the gates to it and its long cobbled path and the gravestones on either side.

It's a very old-fashioned graveyard, with the wrought-iron gates, twisted and dark oak trees hanging as low as shoulder-height, and a favourite place for the foxes and stray cats. I'll admit, it's creepy and I never walk through it, even though it's a popular shortcut.

Jinns aren't dead people or tortured cursed souls seeking vengeance, they are an independent creation of Allah swt, with freewill like mankind. They are unseen, but they certainly aren't ghosts, and they could be anywhere, not just graveyards. So no I don't see any specific connection or reason for jinns to be hanging around there.

And as my father says, what is there to fear of those who have passed away into the next world to receive their judgement? We should be more cautious of the living people around us ;).

[Born_Believer]

I live near the countryside, and literally a 30 second walk away is the graveyard of our town. Not directly opposite my house, but if I look through my bedroom window I can see the gates to it and its long cobbled path and the gravestones on either side.

It's a very old-fashioned graveyard, with the wrought-iron gates, twisted and dark oak trees hanging as low as shoulder-height, and a favourite place for the foxes and stray cats. I'll admit, it's creepy and I never walk through it, even though it's a popular shortcut.

Jinns aren't dead people or tortured cursed souls seeking vengeance, they are an independent creation of Allah swt, with freewill like mankind. They are unseen, but they certainly aren't ghosts, and they could be anywhere, not just graveyards. So no I don't see any specific connection or reason for jinns to be hanging around there.

And as my father says, what is there to fear of those who have passed away into the next world to receive their judgement? We should be more cautious of the living people around us ;).

Important point here: Jinn are not the spirits of the dead, they are separate entities created by Allah. Much like us, they have free will so can be good or bad.

[jabeady]

It's a shame they canceled Constantine after one season.. englishmen don't do well in America apparently.

Yeah, but "Lucifer" has been renewed.

if tortured souls have any sway in our lives is literally a matter of faith or dismission.

"This agency stands flat-footed upon the ground, and there it must remain. The world is big enough for us. No ghosts need apply.” -- Sherlock Holmes

[mission2succeed]

As it so happens, I currently live right near one of the most haunted places in the US. It's called Bachelor's Grove Cemetery, and if the weather's good I could walk there within an hour, or I could take ten minutes and drive there (but only in the daytime, there's no good place to park if it's night). Here's a site that gives you a bunch of details about haunting events that have been reported in or near it. http://www.prairieghosts.com/bachgrov.html

Now, as a Christian, I don't take this sort of thing very seriously. I don't believe in ghosts, and some of the things that happen there most commonly have perfectly reasonable explanations. It is fun though, just to see what it's like at night and to have a bit of an experience. I have some fun with it, but I don't take it seriously.

What I'd like to know is would Muslims tend to take it seriously, and to what extent could jinns be involved. Here's a bit of the general situation. The graveyard is out of the way and back in the woods, so there have been some shenanigans over the past 100 plus years. Grave robbers have dug up bodies, quite a few graves have been desecrated and even though a couple of restoration efforts have made most of it look right again, two or three of the really enormous tombstones are still on their sides. It would take some serious equipment (and permission to use it there) in order to get them back upright, these things weight a couple of tons. Additionally, there is a small but deep lake conveniently located between the graveyard and the nearest road. It is rumored that certain elements of Chicago's organized crime during Prohibition would dump some bodies there, and it also seems like a convenient place to execute someone and get away with it.

The upshot is that the combination of violent deaths, post-burial desecration, and just a bit of the Satanic element that the location has attracted (it's a solid place for occult-related rituals) has led to an exceptional situation for disturbed and tortured souls. There are also a couple of recurring stories of apparitions, and people will sometimes talk about curses or an evil presence that they picked up while there and then whatever that unseen thing is, it comes home with them and makes trouble. Then I guess they try and do something to get rid of it and restore their peace of mind.

Again, as a Christian, I don't take any of this seriously. I wonder though, how much of this sort of thing aligns with Islamic beliefs about jinns? Does some of this make you think, Yeah that makes some sense according to my understanding of jinns? Are there other parts of it that make you think, No that hasn't got anything to do with my beliefs at all?

Hi,

Not sure if I'm on the same page as everyone else but a lot of what you have mentioned does make sense and relate to jinns, sorcery and black magic within Islam. For more insight on this matter please have a look at these videos where the speakers go in depth about the very topic and let me know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwF6IwJaF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hidcrOEcwec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDVmb1bS4io

[cooterhein]

I'm curious why you use your Christianity as a way of not taking this stuff seriously yet the Bible talks of demons. Do you not believe in that portion?

Demons yes, ghosts no. As to my current situation however, there is a super haunted graveyard practically within walking distance of me which is very well known for ghost stories and apparitions....whereas there is no comparable situation quite near to my personal experience that has very much to do with demons.

[cooterhein]

What does it matter whether Jinns wander about in graveyards? Doesn't concern us, imo.

I actually have no idea whether Muslims make a particular connection between Jinns and graveyards. It would seem that there may not be much of a connection, although I'm still rather curious to know if there's any kind of societal or cultural interest in the topic that may exist independent of strictly religious beliefs.

[cooterhein]

Jinns don´t exit at the graveyards because there are dead bodies but because it´s unclean place (as like a bathroom or a garbage dump).

Have you ever went to your bathroom check if there is any ghost?

Anyways, jinns aren´t ghosts neither tortured souls.

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ight=graveyard - post 105

I am wondering why here is now so many threads about jinns.

Good to know, thanks very much, I was not entirely aware of that. I wonder if this is something that contributes to the ritual cleansing, ablutions and so forth....under certain circumstances if you break wind after washing yourself, you need to wash yourself again....that sort of thing.

This is going to be borderline TMI, but in my current living situation the toilets in the house have been less than 100% operational for a few months. They still work, but you can't use the lever in order to make it flush. We have to lift the lid off the back part where the tank is then reach down and pull on the flap, and we don't necessarily do this every time because it gets your hand wet when you're doing it. This has led to a situation where either or both of the toilets may have a moderately bad situation going on at any given time, and we don't typically flush them until the smell becomes noticeable even when it's covered. With that being said....I have no reports on jinns in either bathroom, and we've really been dragging our feet on getting this fixed for awhile now.

[cooterhein]

I live near the countryside, and literally a 30 second walk away is the graveyard of our town. Not directly opposite my house, but if I look through my bedroom window I can see the gates to it and its long cobbled path and the gravestones on either side.

It's a very old-fashioned graveyard, with the wrought-iron gates, twisted and dark oak trees hanging as low as shoulder-height, and a favourite place for the foxes and stray cats. I'll admit, it's creepy and I never walk through it, even though it's a popular shortcut.

That sounds like an interesting place that I would enjoy checking out.

Jinns aren't dead people or tortured cursed souls seeking vengeance, they are an independent creation of Allah swt, with freewill like mankind. They are unseen, but they certainly aren't ghosts, and they could be anywhere, not just graveyards. So no I don't see any specific connection or reason for jinns to be hanging around there.

Very good to know, I don't really know too much about jinns. There is a TV show that I enjoy called Supernatural, and jinns are some of the recurring characters in the show. These jinns are blue, strong fast and able to disguise themselves, clever, and never say much unless in disguise. If they make physical contact, that can cause you to hallucinate, and they use that distraction in order to capture people. Once captured, they inject you with some sort of knockout drug that places you in a dream state so you don't even realize that you're being held captive and you don't know how long it's been, and while all this is happening the jinn is slowly feeding off you by draining your life force.

But that's just a TV show that entertains me, and I'm absolutely sure that has almost nothing to do with the actual beliefs of Muslims. There's plenty in the show that has to do with Christianity too, and none of it is meant to be terribly accurate. Angels are mostly awful, demons are pure evil, and monsters come from Purgatory then go back there when they're killed. Oh, and God was absent for a long time because he stopped caring about people very much, but he pretended to be a prophet for awhile and he enjoys playing guitar. And God has a sister who was introduced in the most recent season, while Lucifer is Gabriel's evil brother. It's a highly entertaining amalgam of drastically altered lore, but it's not intended to help people be well informed on actual extant beliefs.

Now that I'm describing some of the specifics of the show, I'm realizing just how much violence it would precipitate if it were shown on TV in a Muslim-majority country. But in North America, Christians either ignore it, aren't aware of it, or enjoy it for the purpose of entertainment. And I quite enjoy it.

And as my father says, what is there to fear of those who have passed away into the next world to receive their judgement? We should be more cautious of the living people around us ;).

Sounds like your dad's a smart guy.

[cooterhein]

Hi,

Not sure if I'm on the same page as everyone else but a lot of what you have mentioned does make sense and relate to jinns, sorcery and black magic within Islam. For more insight on this matter please have a look at these videos where the speakers go in depth about the very topic and let me know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwF6IwJaF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hidcrOEcwec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDVmb1bS4io

Wow, that is quite something. I've started watching the first one, it'll be some time before I'm able to watch all of it though. Thanks very much for getting this in front of me.

[cooterhein]

Hi,

Not sure if I'm on the same page as everyone else but a lot of what you have mentioned does make sense and relate to jinns, sorcery and black magic within Islam. For more insight on this matter please have a look at these videos where the speakers go in depth about the very topic and let me know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwF6IwJaF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hidcrOEcwec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDVmb1bS4io

Okay, so the first one, I'm about halfway through and the association between jinns and left-handedness is something that jumped out at me. The man- I'm not sure if it's Muhammad or Abu- said that if you give someone a drink and they use their left hand, this is indicative of something to do with a jinn. Now, I have a sister who's left-handed, I don't know all that many people besides her that are left-handed but some of these people are out there, and their left hand is simply their dominant hand which they are most comfortable with using. If they were around Muslims eating as they normally do and drinking as they normally do, this seems like a situation where a Muslim might think this has something to do with a jinn. Even though there is clearly another reason that they would give for what they're doing.

There is one other thing that occurred to me. Now, I'm right handed, but imagine for a moment I'm holding a cold beverage, a bottle of water or something, and I'm meeting and greeting a bunch of Muslims because for some reason I'm talking to Muslims. Just because of cultural expectations, I would have a very strong tendency to shake hands with people using my right hand, and as a result I would most likely hold my drink in my left hand. For one thing, because I'm doing something else with my right hand, and for another, I'd prefer to present a handshake that is not cold or wet. I'll keep that in my left hand, which I'm not using to shake hands. So this is another reason why even a right handed person, for social and practical purposes, might stick to holding a beverage in the left hand. But again, Muslims might look at this and say that's wrong, you should hold it in your right hand.

By the way, about 39 minutes in he lists off a bunch of places where jinns can be found, and graveyards along with isolated locations are part of the list. Also, don't pee on trees, because a jinn may be there.

[mission2succeed]

Wow, that is quite something. I've started watching the first one, it'll be some time before I'm able to watch all of it though. Thanks very much for getting this in front of me.

Hi,

Your most welcome.
Nice to know you've made a start towards watching the videos.
By the way there are around 10 sections on this topic during this particular workshop.
Feel free to go to section one if you want.
The above links as you may have gathered are on sections three, four and five.
If you have any questions feel free to get in touch.

[mission2succeed]

Okay, so the first one, I'm about halfway through and the association between jinns and left-handedness is something that jumped out at me. The man- I'm not sure if it's Muhammad or Abu- said that if you give someone a drink and they use their left hand, this is indicative of something to do with a jinn. Now, I have a sister who's left-handed, I don't know all that many people besides her that are left-handed but some of these people are out there, and their left hand is simply their dominant hand which they are most comfortable with using. If they were around Muslims eating as they normally do and drinking as they normally do, this seems like a situation where a Muslim might think this has something to do with a jinn. Even though there is clearly another reason that they would give for what they're doing.

There is one other thing that occurred to me. Now, I'm right handed, but imagine for a moment I'm holding a cold beverage, a bottle of water or something, and I'm meeting and greeting a bunch of Muslims because for some reason I'm talking to Muslims. Just because of cultural expectations, I would have a very strong tendency to shake hands with people using my right hand, and as a result I would most likely hold my drink in my left hand. For one thing, because I'm doing something else with my right hand, and for another, I'd prefer to present a handshake that is not cold or wet. I'll keep that in my left hand, which I'm not using to shake hands. So this is another reason why even a right handed person, for social and practical purposes, might stick to holding a beverage in the left hand. But again, Muslims might look at this and say that's wrong, you should hold it in your right hand.

By the way, about 39 minutes in he lists off a bunch of places where jinns can be found, and graveyards along with isolated locations are part of the list. Also, don't pee on trees, because a jinn may be there.

Hi

Not necessarily as a Muslim is instructed to eat and drink with their right hand.

It is proven in the Sunnah that we are instructed to eat and drink with the right hand, and we are forbidden to do that with the left hand. It was narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “When one of you eats, let him eat with his right hand, and when he drinks, let him drink with his right hand, for the shaytaan eats with his left hand and drinks with his left hand.”Narrated by Muslim, 2020

With the above said if a Muslim is left handed they should make every effort towards using right hand when eating and drinking and not their left. Therefore I don't think a Muslim would think a non-muslim has a jinn just because they are left handed. The same applies towards judging them for being in the wrong just because they are holding their beverage in their left hand.

That is right the key places where jinns are found are in isolated places including graveyards.

[noraina]

That sounds like an interesting place that I would enjoy checking out.

Very good to know, I don't really know too much about jinns. There is a TV show that I enjoy called Supernatural, and jinns are some of the recurring characters in the show. These jinns are blue, strong fast and able to disguise themselves, clever, and never say much unless in disguise. If they make physical contact, that can cause you to hallucinate, and they use that distraction in order to capture people. Once captured, they inject you with some sort of knockout drug that places you in a dream state so you don't even realize that you're being held captive and you don't know how long it's been, and while all this is happening the jinn is slowly feeding off you by draining your life force.

But that's just a TV show that entertains me, and I'm absolutely sure that has almost nothing to do with the actual beliefs of Muslims. There's plenty in the show that has to do with Christianity too, and none of it is meant to be terribly accurate. Angels are mostly awful, demons are pure evil, and monsters come from Purgatory then go back there when they're killed. Oh, and God was absent for a long time because he stopped caring about people very much, but he pretended to be a prophet for awhile and he enjoys playing guitar. And God has a sister who was introduced in the most recent season, while Lucifer is Gabriel's evil brother. It's a highly entertaining amalgam of drastically altered lore, but it's not intended to help people be well informed on actual extant beliefs.

Now that I'm describing some of the specifics of the show, I'm realizing just how much violence it would precipitate if it were shown on TV in a Muslim-majority country. But in North America, Christians either ignore it, aren't aware of it, or enjoy it for the purpose of entertainment. And I quite enjoy it.

Sounds like your dad's a smart guy.

Yes I doubt that (interesting???) show would have anything factual about Muslim beliefs concerning Jinns. Essentially, jinns are independent beings created from smokeless fire, they are unseen to human beings and have free will just like we do, the Messengers and books were also meant to guide them so they will also be judged on the Day of Resurrection and punished/rewarded according to their deeds.

Ma'sha'Allah, my father's very smart. :D.

[jabeady]

Regarding left-handedness, I'm "sort of" ambidextrous, right-handed in some things, left-handed in others. How then?

[Born_Believer]

Demons yes, ghosts no. As to my current situation however, there is a super haunted graveyard practically within walking distance of me which is very well known for ghost stories and apparitions....whereas there is no comparable situation quite near to my personal experience that has very much to do with demons.

Well, you have your answer there then. We believe essentially the same although I do not personally like the term demons, because Jinn can be both good and bad, whereas demons are evil only.