/* */

PDA

View Full Version : young muslims leaving islam



muslim brother
10-15-2016, 06:24 PM


at 16:45 molana saheb makes some very courageous and introspective comments.



and from my blog..

why did they leave ........the dire need for an altruistic and pragmatic approach



im sure many have heard by now about the recent itv programme about apostates/atheists however its phrased.

i only have questions,they are genuine and also for reflection for the communities which they left.

some observations and assumptions first. yes ..i could be wrong

1 :it appeared the issues and grievances were with retrogressive culture and bad parenting primarily and not religion..i could be wrong

2 :vulnerable and lonely people were looking for love and support..i could be wrong

3parents and communities in their ignorance overreacted and in fact made the situation worse..i could be wrong

4:self righteousness and lazy cultural parenting along with an ignorance of the spiritual aspect of islam may be to blame..i could be wrong

5:the inability and refusal of the muslim community ,to address its own failings and rot constantly shoved under the proverbial carpet came to the surface..i could be wrong.

the carpet itself has now rotted away,and no new carpet will be able to cover the rot we constantly try to shove under it..of course...i may be wrong



murdering people on the streets makes things worse,calling for murder makes things worse,shunning people and not listening to them makes things worse.
ignoring people with doubt and confusion makes things worse.over reaction and ignoring the voice and feelings of those in deep pain and dilemmas makes things worse.shunning and excommunicating makes things worse.mocking and hunting and dehumanising someones daughter,son makes things worse

islam is a way of life which makes things better,it heals,it manages,it comforts.
it draws people near and embraces humanity without prejudice.

am i right?

AND ALLAH TAALA KNOW BEST
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Scimitar
10-15-2016, 06:28 PM
Wasnt there something on C4 last night about Youngsters leaving Islam in the UK? I missed it, if anyone has a link - it will be appreciated.

Scimi
Reply

drac16
10-15-2016, 07:49 PM
I think we're not doing enough to teach people about how good God is. Too often we say "you have to do this or you're going to Hell". Technically that may be true, but God is so much more than a God that sends unbelievers to Hell. He made us in the wombs of our mothers. He is offering a full pardon for our transgressions, not to mention unimaginable bliss both in this life and the next. He cares about us so much that He sent us prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him], the perfect role model.

Islam is more than a set of rules, but unfortunately, that is how it is often portrayed by muslims. Some people just want to refute others to show how smart they are and they're always going on about how wrong everyone is. I may get in trouble by saying this; but that is what I see from salafis. Salafism focuses too much on the do's and don'ts. There's not enough love and reconciliation in Salafi Islam.
Reply

muslim brother
10-15-2016, 08:41 PM
im glad molanasaheb said those things in the middle of his own community and even to some elders as i do..

it takes courage and sincerity,
without allahs help it can cause a backlash
with allahs help you find people slowly supporting you and doors opening

as ive said before we have youngsters whove left islam in batley too
even in dewsbury i know 1,a very well known case.
i also know lgbt muslims..
havent met them in a while,
but we can talk alhamdulillah if we meet occasionally
,and for that i thank allah taala
never burn bridges and close doors

AND ALLAH KNOWS BEST
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
M.I.A.
10-15-2016, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED PATEL


at 16:45 molana saheb makes some very courageous and introspective comments.



and from my blog..

why did they leave ........the dire need for an altruistic and pragmatic approach



im sure many have heard by now about the recent itv programme about apostates/atheists however its phrased.

i only have questions,they are genuine and also for reflection for the communities which they left.

some observations and assumptions first. yes ..i could be wrong

1 :it appeared the issues and grievances were with retrogressive culture and bad parenting primarily and not religion..i could be wrong

2 :vulnerable and lonely people were looking for love and support..i could be wrong

3parents and communities in their ignorance overreacted and in fact made the situation worse..i could be wrong

4:self righteousness and lazy cultural parenting along with an ignorance of the spiritual aspect of islam may be to blame..i could be wrong

5:the inability and refusal of the muslim community ,to address its own failings and rot constantly shoved under the proverbial carpet came to the surface..i could be wrong.

the carpet itself has now rotted away,and no new carpet will be able to cover the rot we constantly try to shove under it..of course...i may be wrong



murdering people on the streets makes things worse,calling for murder makes things worse,shunning people and not listening to them makes things worse.
ignoring people with doubt and confusion makes things worse.over reaction and ignoring the voice and feelings of those in deep pain and dilemmas makes things worse.shunning and excommunicating makes things worse.mocking and hunting and dehumanising someones daughter,son makes things worse

islam is a way of life which makes things better,it heals,it manages,it comforts.
it draws people near and embraces humanity without prejudice.

am i right?

AND ALLAH TAALA KNOW BEST
well.. if you follow someone who doesn't know what they are doing.. then you get mad3 to look thick.

..although if they do it on purpose, im not sure who the blame is on.

i wouldn't label them apostates, simply people who have lost faith in the people who were meant to bring them good news and glad tidings.

they are by no means bad drivers in a sea of bad drivers.

...on whos competency will they be assessed?


quite frankly i wouldnt follow many if any given the choice.. we are just food on a plate to some people.

but if people dont like how others drive, then they should at least learn to not be the same..

when given a choice.
Reply

Nobody's Girl
10-15-2016, 11:56 PM
Lousy parenting is definately a big factor here. I can tell and maybe I'm wrong but it has alot to do with the cultural background of the person. I'm sure we've all heard about the saudi girls who wear the abaya and hijab in their country but the moment they set foot in a western country they are indistinguishable. May God have mercy on us all.
Reply

kritikvernunft
10-16-2016, 04:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by drac16
Islam is more than a set of rules, but unfortunately, that is how it is often portrayed by muslims.
If it were only about metaphysics, it would not work either. That is where the rules kick in.

For example, if you look at the practical ambition to reproduce from generation to generation, you will quickly discover that you cannot achieve that as an individual. It takes two to tango. Therefore, you need a common understanding and common expectations. Hence, rules are needed to align ambitions. If they remain unaligned, things will just end up in the same situation as for the pagans: Gosh, it no longer works !? The pagan birth rate keeps going down for very explainable reasons. They have no workable rules that align ambitions. From there, the result will not be reproduction from generation to generation but lawless sexual fitna.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
10-16-2016, 09:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nobody's Girl
Lousy parenting is definately a big factor here. I can tell and maybe I'm wrong but it has alot to do with the cultural background of the person. I'm sure we've all heard about the saudi girls who wear the abaya and hijab in their country but the moment they set foot in a western country they are indistinguishable. May God have mercy on us all.
They are not the only ones. I work with a lot of young refugees from the Middle East and African countries. With Islamic names, I used to assume they were Muslims when doing forms with them, but most of them say they don't believe in a God and are now atheists. Most of them are quite open about it as well.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
10-16-2016, 10:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Wasnt there something on C4 last night about Youngsters leaving Islam in the UK? I missed it, if anyone has a link - it will be appreciated.

Scimi
I've just done a quick search on their website with "Islam" and "Muslim" and the only 3 things that came up were Muslim Drag Queens, Make Me A Muslim and What Muslims Really Think. It may be loaded on later I don't know. Any idea what time it was meant to be on?
Reply

noraina
10-16-2016, 10:05 AM
I've seen this many times. And much more common is young Muslims who may not have through their words claimed to have left Islam, but there is nothing 'Muslim' about any of their actions. The only thing identifying as Muslim is there name. There's a word for it 'cultural Muslims' - people who are Muslim solely by virtue of being born into a Muslim-majority culture.

The main problems (not just in Western cultures) I'd say.

. Your parents don't give you education in the deen, or even try.

.When they do 'try' that take a very heavy-handed and forceful approach, the result: the moment you can you just go crazy.

.Many Imams and scholars in a community are from 'back home', they don't understand that life in the West is very different and they need to address different problems.


I was a cultural Muslim until my mid-teens. I never prayed or fasted, once I did my first completion of the Qur'an when I was 11 I never touched it for years, and I just knew nothing. The local Quran teacher was one of those older men from a village 'back home', he couldn't speak a sentence in English and everything he would say went over my head.

And at the local community centre there was self-righteous people galore. I went once and was jibed at for the way I dressed and the fact I didn't know how to pray. Maybe I overreacted, but I was 14 then and I never went back. When you make the decision to turn to Allah swt, it's a big step, so when they approach you for advice, and they're not dressed properly or maybe don't know the most basic things, don't just jump down their throats. Give them time. My experience wasn't isolated, I lot of young people were turned away from Islam when certain 'practising' or 'religious' people just were so unwelcoming. I was fortunate alhamdulillah in that my mother was there to encourage me.

So yes five years ago I didn't even know what the Shahadah meant, now alhamdulillah I know enough Arabic that those people who once judged me for my lack of knowledge suggested to me I should help out in the weekend Arabic classes ;).

Okay, rant over - I could write a book on this subhanAllah.
Reply

kritikvernunft
10-16-2016, 11:33 AM
Some numbers for the UK between 2001 and 2011:

http://www.economist.com/news/britai...ng-my-religion

- Bangladeshis: from 0.4% to 1.4%
- Pakistanis: from 0.5% to 1.1%

Those who are openly godless often use the language of gay rights, talking about “coming out” to those close to them.

The overall trend is different, though:

The difficulty for Muslims with misgivings, at least in revealing them, is the politicisation of Islam. Many British Muslims have become more overtly religious as they perceive their faith to be under attack. Islam has become a greater part of their identity.
Reply

noraina
10-16-2016, 11:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Wasnt there something on C4 last night about Youngsters leaving Islam in the UK? I missed it, if anyone has a link - it will be appreciated.

Scimi
On the 14th there was a program on ITV called 'Islam's Non Believers'. It wasn't really a constructive insight into the issues the Muslim community has in terms of educating its youth about Islam, it was more an extremely one-sided, biased, propaganda platform to say nonsense with no constructive message. I'm not making light of people's difficulties, but honestly they were just trouble makers and attention seekers making a big song and dance over a personal decision.

That said, maybe it's not entirely their fault as many of them were just given the wrong idea about Islam. There was a girl saying how she used to be beaten and was told the parts which are beaten will not be burned by the hellfire....??? I've heard that too. There's a lot of cultural ignorance which has made it ways into people's beliefs about Islam and that's the root of all of these problems we see - people leaving or not practising Islam.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
10-16-2016, 12:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
On the 14th there was a program on ITV called 'Islam's Non Believers'. It wasn't really a constructive insight into the issues the Muslim community has in terms of educating its youth about Islam, it was more an extremely one-sided, biased, propaganda platform to say nonsense with no constructive message. I'm not making light of people's difficulties, but honestly they were just trouble makers and attention seekers making a big song and dance over a personal decision.

That said, maybe it's not entirely their fault as many of them were just given the wrong idea about Islam. There was a girl saying how she used to be beaten and was told the parts which are beaten will not be burned by the hellfire....??? I've heard that too. There's a lot of cultural ignorance which has made it ways into people's beliefs about Islam and that's the root of all of these problems we see - people leaving or not practising Islam.
You do know people who go on these "documentaries" probably get paid. I once saw one about ethnic minorities and homosexuality. They had plucked this young "Muslim" boy who decided to come out to his parents who tried to exorcise him and when that didn't work, they were going to hurl him off a cliff in the middle of London! Whether he was paid more to say that is something that I ran through my head.

And in that show there was a man who is now a woman (or was part way through the process) who was being bullied and yelled at solely by Muslim men. I found it quite hard to believe it was solely Muslims. There is a transvestite/transgender/transsexual person who uses the train station I use and everyone, white, black, brown, ridicule him/her. I don't understand why they want Islam/Muslims to be such boogeymen!

Most of these shows are completely biased and one sided, you are right there.
Reply

Search
10-16-2016, 12:20 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)


I have talked to various apostates on the Internet; and one of the persistent things I've come across in such situations is that either one or both parents didn't properly inculcate the values of Islam or teach about Islam to these persons. So, yes, culturally Muslim parents have a lot for which they have to answer because they have failed their children.

There have been some apostates on the Internet who have become apostates after coming across harshness from fellow Muslims on the Internet or in real life; instead of fellow Muslims answering some seemingly tough questions about Islam or the Muslim community in a calm and collected manner or addressing the intellectual concern of a fellow Muslim, the ill-mannered and probably insecure Muslim will attack the person for asking the questions as if these questions are not learning opportunities but berating opportunities.

Also, as a side note, I have also seen that some apostates just didn't ever believe but haven't said anything out of not wanting to lose the family or communal support.

To be honest, I have often wished that some Muslims would stop acting in a manner that bespeaks of anxiety as if a question or a negative comment means that Islam must somehow be imperfect. Imperfect are human beings, not God, and not Islam which I'd remind myself and everyone simply means "submission to God" which has been the primordial faith of all the prophets (peace be upon them all) from the beginning of the existence of Adam :as: (peace be upon him). So, our duty as a believer is to humble ourselves and submit our will to God. There are no unanswerable questions or comments but sometimes for whatever reason a Muslim may not have sufficient knowledge to answer the query of the questioner; in that case, it is perfectly acceptable to say, "I'm sorry; I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope someone who does will be able to answer your question" or "I don't know the answer to your question, but may I direct you to another resource where I think you may able to find your answer?"

I think sometimes Muslims say by the tongue that they believe Islam is the Truth but entirely fail to show that in action; showing the Truth, however, pivots entirely in action and not in words. This is one of the wisdom of Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) saying, “I have only been sent to perfect good moral character.”

Also, because of a very harrowing hadith I'd read in which it was said (and I'm paraphrasing) that one of the biggest trial for the ummah in the Last Days would many people leaving Islam, I recommend that everyone surround themselves with good company, the kind of righteous company by which you would be happy to be known. The wisdom of this is also enumerated in what Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) had said: “A good friend and a bad friend are like a perfume-seller and a blacksmith: The perfume-seller might give you some perfume as a gift, or you might buy some from him, or at least you might smell its fragrance. As for the blacksmith, he might singe your clothes, and at the very least you will breathe in the fumes of the furnace.”

In our time, there are two forces battling for human beings' souls all over the world; one is dark and the other is light. I already see this spiritual struggle becoming clearer and clearer with passage of time, though I hope more people are able to perceive it; and I note that all of us are going to feel it too at some point or another whether a person is a believer or unbeliever. Many of the predictions in hadiths (prophetic traditions) that have been foretold by Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) and other prophets before him (peace be upon them all) have come true and others will be increasingly coming true as well. It may seem funny for us to think on this matter, but I hope people are aware that the one-eyed Dajjal (Anti-Christ) without having appeared as himself has long been using the forces of darkness to prepare the world for his appearance and so has continued to pull the wool over the eyes of people since who do not realize that his agenda is to make people forswear belief in Allah. The forces of darkness' biggest tool against believers is both materialism and atheism because both are dead-ends to spiritual awakening if a person does not try to move out of the comfort zone to set out in search for the truth.

That is why I ask everyone to if possible and this applies to me first to ensure that your income is from halal (permissble) sources and also to engage with dhikrullah (remembrance of God) as much as possible because that's the only way your basira (spiritual inner eye) will be open so that you can attain certainty. Remember the shahada (testimony of faith)says, "I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger." Make the aim to move from ilmul yaqeen (certainty based on knowledge) to ainul yaqeen (certainty based on sight) and haqqul yaqeen (certainty based on experience; having fully realized the conscious truth); these three stages are mentioned in the Qur'an so that we may strive for them and so make duas (supplications) that Allah opens this knowledge for you as the sages are indeed right: "Knowledge is power." If you attain any certainty based on the above, you'll be able to safeguard your iman (faith) even if an atheist or any non-Muslim were to argue and debate with you from a million reasons as to why not to believe because you will know that the person is talking from conjecture whereas you have certainty. That is why Allah says in the Qur'an (13:16) to have us ask us of unbelievers, "Are the blind equal with those who see? Or the depths of darkness equal with light?" However, you yourself have to be able to ask this question on the basis of what you know; and if you yourself do not know, how will you be able to ask such a weighty question?

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Reply

noraina
10-16-2016, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
To be honest, I have often wished that some Muslims would stop acting in a manner that bespeaks of anxiety as if a question or a negative comment means that Islam must somehow be imperfect. Imperfect are human beings, not God, and not Islam which I'd remind myself and everyone simply means "submission to God" which has been the primordial faith of all the prophets (peace be upon them all) from the beginning of the existence of Adam (peace be upon him).
Sometimes we can become unreasonably defensive when asked or questioned about our faith, or if it is a question we cannot answer. This applies to questions or statements by both Muslims and non-Muslims, they may do or say something we deem as disrespectful or ignorant or insulting (this can apply to some pretty high-profile cases as well) and rather than try to constructively discuss with them, we go off on one and end up giving the impression as being all religious fervour and passion without the ability to reason and discuss calmly.

It can reflect a weakness in our own iman when we feel offended by another's opinions concerning Islam. If they don't understand, or if we cannot provide an answer, that's our own fault as humans, and not Islam's.

Controlling anger is recommended highly by our Prophet (pbuh) because you end up reacting in unreasonably ways. If someone is winding you up, while in person or online, it prays off to think ten seconds and reason rather than just enslave yourself to your emotions and let them run away.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
10-16-2016, 04:56 PM
Having said what I have done, they did try and make an effort in my area for young Muslims. I was too old to attend but I did go to spectate. It was for thirteen to twenty year olds to go and speak about issues and troubles they face on a daily basis. It was very well advertised and put in the monthly Muslim rag. They even advertised free food. Unfortunately the only person in attendance was the Mufti who organised it. It was quite sad to be honest. But such is life. Young people are not bothered much anymore.
Reply

Nobody's Girl
10-16-2016, 05:51 PM
Quite sad. May God return us all to the truth.
Reply

muslim brother
10-16-2016, 05:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
Having said what I have done, they did try and make an effort in my area for young Muslims. I was too old to attend but I did go to spectate. It was for thirteen to twenty year olds to go and speak about issues and troubles they face on a daily basis. It was very well advertised and put in the monthly Muslim rag. They even advertised free food. Unfortunately the only person in attendance was the Mufti who organised it. It was quite sad to be honest. But such is life. Young people are not bothered much anymore.
a lot of the mosques dont realize sometimes youngsters dont want to speak to someone with a title but someone with real world experience or someone whos been in the news and can talk from experience.
in dewsbury masjid umar had a mufti and 2 molanas.in a talk about terrorism..most youngsters,the real target audience wont even know them
Reply

muslim brother
10-16-2016, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
Sometimes we can become unreasonably defensive when asked or questioned about our faith, or if it is a question we cannot answer. This applies to questions or statements by both Muslims and non-Muslims, they may do or say something we deem as disrespectful or ignorant or insulting (this can apply to some pretty high-profile cases as well) and rather than try to constructively discuss with them, we go off on one and end up giving the impression as being all religious fervour and passion without the ability to reason and discuss calmly.

It can reflect a weakness in our own iman when we feel offended by another's opinions concerning Islam. If they don't understand, or if we cannot provide an answer, that's our own fault as humans, and not Islam's.

Controlling anger is recommended highly by our Prophet (pbuh) because you end up reacting in unreasonably ways. If someone is winding you up, while in person or online, it prays off to think ten seconds and reason rather than just enslave yourself to your emotions and let them run away.
we claim to love the sunnah
but cant behave in the sunnah way of forebearance and the long struggle that all prophets have had..

todays insta world insta coffee,insta online info makes us think the whole world must also like islam and muslims instantly too..and even that without any real proactive effort from us.

the sahabah and prophets of old would milk peoples goats and volunteer their services.
how many in our community with the titles and positions do service outside the community?
Reply

hisnameiszzz
10-16-2016, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED PATEL
a lot of the mosques dont realize sometimes youngsters dont want to speak to someone with a title but someone with real world experience or someone whos been in the news and can talk from experience.
in dewsbury masjid umar had a mufti and 2 molanas.in a talk about terrorism..most youngsters,the real target audience wont even know them
They did a talk about terrorism too for youngsters. The only folk who turned up were the elderly ones. It's sad.
Reply

muslim brother
10-16-2016, 07:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
They did a talk about terrorism too for youngsters. The only folk who turned up were the elderly ones. It's sad.
i know
in other words the usual mosque attendees

i emailed the organisers and told them their thinking is too narrow.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-05-2015, 01:34 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-17-2007, 07:35 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-10-2006, 07:53 PM
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 07-26-2005, 08:48 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!