Please do not lock important threads

[Born_Believer]

I think this is the correct place to post this.

There was a thread recently called "Islam spread by the sword".

There was a group, with a particular poster who was claiming that muslims had the right to kill those who would not convert, I provided via Islamic evidence as to why that is not true but rather than have a deeper discussion on the issue the thread was closed with those who are ignorant of the truth having the last word.

This not only send out the wrong message to non-Muslims but also misguides Muslims who are too prone to believe everything they read on the internet (especially young ones) and/or unable to do research of their own on the subject.

I believe this isn't right unless the thread itself is deleted so that future generations do not fall into the trap laid down by those who are trying to misguide others, whether purposefully or through their own ignorance on the matter.

Simply locking threads such as these does not help or educate anyone.

[anatolian]

I am totally against to close the threads that easily. If someone is breaking the rules delete their posts but when you close the thread you disallow peoeple to defend themselves

[aaj]

I agree. It is easy to close threads and wash your hands off from it all but a forum is a place for discussions and debates. There are bound to be arguments and disagreements. A moderator is suppose to moderate and guide that discussion to stay on topic and not shut it down all together. Otherwise, this will only put others off from bothering to discuss or post on a topic and/or go elsewhere.

[Serinity]

:salam:

What should be done, rather, is to delete posts that cause hate, etc. But, obviously, there are some pretty pertinent topics.

we should be more mature. otherwise infractions should be issued.. I think.

Allahu alam.

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[*charisma*]

Assalamu ALaikum

While I can agree with most of you, the issue is that the arguments, whether they are inappropriate (ie. insulting others) or off-topic do not stop. You all carry on with adding to the fire instead of reporting the post before it gets out of hand. The fastest way to get our attention is to report or tag an admin/mod, and I cannot stress that enough. We are not online 24/7 to moderate each and every thread, and often by the time we get there, the arguments are too long, complex, and thread cleanup becomes tedious. While I'm personally all for the important dialogues, you must all also practice some self-control and follow the rules and not expect moderators to do that aspect for you. As muslims we should not watch members insult each other in the manner that is done here and not do anything about it.

Infractions have been and will continue to be implemented, but if this is becoming more of a bigger issue and ruining the dynamics of the board, then perhaps the admin team will discuss a more effective discourse to ensure that the posts that come through are proper, and the members that continue to break rules will be banned.

Again, I urge you all that if you feel passionate about a topic and would love to keep the thread open, then remind one another to follow the rules and report posts that break them. Otherwise from our point of view, it is not deserving to allow a thread topic to stay open if no one had the decency to help stop the arguing, insulting, off-topic posts. Put more efforts in preventing the closures of the threads rather than arguing about why the thread was closed or why posts were deleted.

[Born_Believer]

Assalamu ALaikum

While I can agree with most of you, the issue is that the arguments, whether they are inappropriate (ie. insulting others) or off-topic do not stop. You all carry on with adding to the fire instead of reporting the post before it gets out of hand. The fastest way to get our attention is to report or tag an admin/mod, and I cannot stress that enough. We are not online 24/7 to moderate each and every thread, and often by the time we get there, the arguments are too long, complex, and thread cleanup becomes tedious. While I'm personally all for the important dialogues, you must all also practice some self-control and follow the rules and not expect moderators to do that aspect for you. As muslims we should not watch members insult each other in the manner that is done here and not do anything about it.

Infractions have been and will continue to be implemented, but if this is becoming more of a bigger issue and ruining the dynamics of the board, then perhaps the admin team will discuss a more effective discourse to ensure that the posts that come through are proper, and the members that continue to break rules will be banned.

Again, I urge you all that if you feel passionate about a topic and would love to keep the thread open, then remind one another to follow the rules and report posts that break them. Otherwise from our point of view, it is not deserving to allow a thread topic to stay open if no one had the decency to help stop the arguing, insulting, off-topic posts. Put more efforts in preventing the closures of the threads rather than arguing about why the thread was closed or why posts were deleted.

I understand the point you're making here but simply closing at hread that can mislead people is not enough, it should also be deleted. If the latter is not going to happen, then you should allow the discussion to take place but with moderation on your part.

[*charisma*]

I understand the point you're making here but simply closing at hread that can mislead people is not enough, it should also be deleted. If the latter is not going to happen, then you should allow the discussion to take place but with moderation on your part.

I was speaking in general. Threads which are closed are left at the mod/admin's discretion. If you believe that a closed thread should have been deleted/removed, then again report the thread with your commentary so we can review, or alternatively you can send a PM to the mod who closed it or post in the help desk.

[Futuwwa]

Here's a suggestion: If a mod decides that a particular discussion should not happen and a thread should be closed, the thread should just be closed. The mod should not be allowed to take a stance at the actual topic of the discussion. That's abuse of mod power to forcibly get the last word in a debate.

[anatolian]

Here's a suggestion: If a mod decides that a particular discussion should not happen and a thread should be closed, the thread should just be closed. The mod should not be allowed to take a stance at the actual topic of the discussion. That's abuse of mod power to forcibly get the last word in a debate.

Good to hear you are alive bro :)

[Muhammad]

:wasalamex

There was a group, with a particular poster who was claiming that muslims had the right to kill those who would not convert, I provided via Islamic evidence as to why that is not true but rather than have a deeper discussion on the issue the thread was closed with those who are ignorant of the truth having the last word.

This not only send out the wrong message to non-Muslims but also misguides Muslims who are too prone to believe everything they read on the internet (especially young ones) and/or unable to do research of their own on the subject.

I think the thread you are referring to is this one:
https://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...d-sword-3.html

I do not think anyone was claiming that Muslims had the right to forcibly convert. Some people were saying this has happened in history, but pointed out that it was wrong. The reason it was eventually closed is because it became an argument over historical facts. It did not seem that a useful discussion was about to take place any time soon.

I agree with you that where threads can spread misinformation, it is better to remove them rather than simply close them. If there are any posts in the above thread that concern you, please report them and we can review :ia:.

Here's a suggestion: If a mod decides that a particular discussion should not happen and a thread should be closed, the thread should just be closed. The mod should not be allowed to take a stance at the actual topic of the discussion. That's abuse of mod power to forcibly get the last word in a debate.

This is kind of going against what the OP is saying. We have a responsibility to ensure that the message being given out is correct. In a number of situations it can be important to make a clarifying post. For example, if you have a have a hadeeth rejector posting various arguments in support of his view, clarifying the correct position is praiseworthy, not an abuse of power. In other situations where things are not so black and white, perhaps you have a point. There needs to be a balance as well as direction, but this isn't always easy to attain. And Allaah :swt: knows best.

[Futuwwa]

This is kind of going against what the OP is saying. We have a responsibility to ensure that the message being given out is correct. In a number of situations it can be important to make a clarifying post. For example, if you have a have a hadeeth rejector posting various arguments in support of his view, clarifying the correct position is praiseworthy, not an abuse of power. In other situations where things are not so black and white, perhaps you have a point. There needs to be a balance as well as direction, but this isn't always easy to attain. And Allaah :swt: knows best.

So provided that you are right and the other guy is wrong, using mod power as a bully pulpit is the right thing to do? Can I have that power too? First, I would use it to get the last word on this topic, for on it, I am right and you are wrong.

[Muhammad]

So provided that you are right and the other guy is wrong, using mod power as a bully pulpit is the right thing to do?

Using one's authority to clarify what is right is not bullying. It's a responsibility. After all, the purpose of the forum is da'wah, not for every whim or conjecture to be entertained.

[greenhill]

There are many threads that was closed that I cannot remember them. All I can remember are my feelings when I could not post after reading through pages of debate….

My suggestion would be to put the thread under moderation. Even better, put those who constantly go off topic, making misleading claims etc under moderation rather than close the entire topic.

There must be a better way.


:peace:

[sister herb]

There must be a better way.

Yes, there is one better way: all members learn to behave respectfully towards of other members, avoid bad language and remember their manners while taking part to some discussions.

I am very tired to notice how many good discussions here have changed as the battlefield because of lack of manners of talking.

[islamirama]

There are many threads that was closed that I cannot remember them. All I can remember are my feelings when I could not post after reading through pages of debate….

:peace:

when you get PM every other day that so and so thread is closed or deleted, it does put you off from posting and participating. :skeleton:

[Umm Abed]

when you get PM every other day that so and so thread is closed or deleted, it does put you off from posting and participating. :skeleton:

You should clarify and PM a mod and they will explain; perhaps you can come to an agreement.

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

There are many threads that was closed that I cannot remember them. All I can remember are my feelings when I could not post after reading through pages of debate

I'm sorry for the disappointment. Sometimes we do allow people to contribute even after closing a thread, where something important is being added. If you want to add something, let us know and we can consider the options.

My suggestion would be to put the thread under moderation. Even better, put those who constantly go off topic, making misleading claims etc under moderation rather than close the entire topic.

There must be a better way.

I'm not sure it's possible to put a specific thread under moderation, but users do get moderated. We also try different approaches depending on the situation. There are times when we've closed threads, deleted a bunch of posts and then re-opened them, then eventually had to close them for good. Sometimes we post warnings that the thread will get closed. Sometimes we simply delete off-topic posts and see how the thread will go. It's also worth mentioning that threads get closed for a variety of reasons and in the end, it comes down to moderator discretion as to whether a thread is serving more harm than good. Some threads go on for several pages before they get closed, whilst others can close within the first couple of pages. So it depends on the specific situation.

In any case, it is not our intention to make things difficult for people who are here for genuine reasons. We are simply trying to ensure it is a good environment for all, :ia:. When people report posts and mention their concerns/advice, we do try to respond to this and use it to help guide our actions. Sometimes we get it right and other times we get it wrong (which we are sorry for). We are human beings at the end of the day. : )

May Allah :swt: guide us and forgive us, Aameen.

[greenhill]

:salamext:

I'm sorry for the disappointment. Sometimes we do allow people to contribute even after closing a thread, where something important is being added. If you want to add something, let us know and we can consider the options.

I'm not sure it's possible to put a specific thread under moderation, but users do get moderated. We also try different approaches depending on the situation. There are times when we've closed threads, deleted a bunch of posts and then re-opened them, then eventually had to close them for good. Sometimes we post warnings that the thread will get closed. Sometimes we simply delete off-topic posts and see how the thread will go. It's also worth mentioning that threads get closed for a variety of reasons and in the end, it comes down to moderator discretion as to whether a thread is serving more harm than good. Some threads go on for several pages before they get closed, whilst others can close within the first couple of pages. So it depends on the specific situation.

In any case, it is not our intention to make things difficult for people who are here for genuine reasons. We are simply trying to ensure it is a good environment for all, :ia:. When people report posts and mention their concerns/advice, we do try to respond to this and use it to help guide our actions. Sometimes we get it right and other times we get it wrong (which we are sorry for). We are human beings at the end of the day. : )

May Allah :swt: guide us and forgive us, Aameen.

Thank you for that.

I remember several times where my posts are not immediately displayed but 'vetted' before uploaded… I was just saying the same thing to apply to posts after the debates in the thread start to 'spark' some trouble (for the lack of a better word)..


:peace:

[*charisma*]

when you get PM every other day that so and so thread is closed or deleted, it does put you off from posting and participating. :skeleton:

A question to you and other members on the board, would you prefer that you do not receive PMs when your posts are deleted? As in, should this auto feature be eliminated? Often times we do mass deletions and our reasoning is generalized such as "off-topic" or "thread cleanup." It's not necessarily to make anyone feel off-put by the PMs, but just to give reasoning so that we don't get a hundred PMs or posts asking why their post got deleted.

[sister herb]

A question to you and other members on the board, would you prefer that you do not receive PMs when your posts are deleted? As in, should this auto feature be eliminated? Often times we do mass deletions and our reasoning is generalized such as "off-topic" or "thread cleanup." It's not necessarily to make anyone feel off-put by the PMs, but just to give reasoning so that we don't get a hundred PMs or posts asking why their post got deleted.

Not knowing about others, but when I get such a PM, I am as "uh oh do they soon ban me". :phew

But in general, those PMs are ok. They remind me to be more careful.

[Futuwwa]

Using one's authority to clarify what is right is not bullying. It's a responsibility. After all, the purpose of the forum is da'wah, not for every whim or conjecture to be entertained.

So, can I have the power? As I said, I'm right and you are wrong, and I'm not going to let you argue otherwise and spread error. It is, as you say, responsibility.

[*charisma*]

So, can I have the power?

No.

As I said, I'm right and you are wrong, and I'm not going to let you argue otherwise and spread error. It is, as you say, responsibility.

As mentioned before, if you have an issue in regards to why a topic is closed then send a PM or a report. In Islam, there are often clear-cut answers that people like to debate. There is no room for debate and opinion for these types of things, and as a result the "final say" is what is needed because at the end of the day the purpose of the forum is dawah. We're not doing it for the purpose of ego as you'd like to imply. Often times, we're not even a part of the dialogue. If your issue is relating to something totally different, then by all means take it up with the person that closed the thread at the time the thread is closed. Don't try to state your displeasure so generically. It's not constructive for anyone.

[Samiun]

I'm gonna vouch for the Moderators here, I see them allowing threads all the times that would go up to 10 pages and it's usually the same thing discussed a few years ago but bruh no one wants to use the search button. What makes it more frustrating is if you've been here for 5years then you SHOULD know what Muslims are like and what they are suppose to believe in and not make a critic on their beliefs something you did 5 years ago, it's back to SQUARE ONE. Like all these 5 years meant nothing, I mean come on! It's the same argument, same people same thing! If I was a mod I'd go crazy myself.

People should really use this thread more often, there's like FOUR threads here:

https://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...t=spread+sword

[Futuwwa]

As mentioned before, if you have an issue in regards to why a topic is closed then send a PM or a report. In Islam, there are often clear-cut answers that people like to debate. There is no room for debate and opinion for these types of things, and as a result the "final say" is what is needed because at the end of the day the purpose of the forum is dawah. We're not doing it for the purpose of ego as you'd like to imply. Often times, we're not even a part of the dialogue. If your issue is relating to something totally different, then by all means take it up with the person that closed the thread at the time the thread is closed. Don't try to state your displeasure so generically. It's not constructive for anyone.

How naive of me, I thought the purpose of the forum was the discussion of all kinds of topics of relevance for Muslims. I didn't know I was just supposed to be on the receiving end of dawah and nothing more.

If I'm expressing things so generically, it's because it's a persistent phenomenon, not just this or that premature thread closure.

It is my experience though that what's considered a "clear-cut answer" depends on the mood of the mod for the moment. Now, if there was a complete list of established official truths beyond the scope of debate and discussion, that'd be one thing. But there isn't.

[Futuwwa]

I'm gonna vouch for the Moderators here, I see them allowing threads all the times that would go up to 10 pages and it's usually the same thing discussed a few years ago but bruh no one wants to use the search button. What makes it more frustrating is if you've been here for 5years then you SHOULD know what Muslims are like and what they are suppose to believe in and not make a critic on their beliefs something you did 5 years ago, it's back to SQUARE ONE. Like all these 5 years meant nothing, I mean come on! It's the same argument, same people same thing! If I was a mod I'd go crazy myself.

People should really use this thread more often, there's like FOUR threads here:

https://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...t=spread+sword

You speak as if there is one, final, conclusive established truth on any given matter, and that a single forum thread is sufficient to establish it with certainty. Besides, 5 years is a long time, long enough that the cast of forum regulars will have changed. New people bring new perspectives that weren't there last time.

[Samiun]

I still see some members who are still here and yet they jump on the oppurtunity to raise their somehow new points but are really old points. Questions like, Is God real must've been asked, debated and answered a 100 times per year it's just that they word it out differently. I don't think people use the search button nor the 'Index of Useful Threads' often and I include myself but over there, there are many arguments and debates that continue to be relevant to this day. The moderator's views is really simple, in discussing there must be certain adab to be followed and once these discussion turn into name calling, repetitive argument(this is like always done) then they see no benefit in continuing them just to put a stop on idle talk or pointless debating as this is discouraged in Islam.

You speak as if there is one, final, conclusive established truth on any given matter, and that a single forum thread is sufficient to establish it with certainty.

Well there's a lot of threads in there, not a single forum thread which if people took their actual time and effort would erase some questions on their minds or at least understand the query a little better. I'm saying, look the answer is there go look for it and stop repeating what's being asked in the past, it's been done and dusted like a hundred times already come on! I mean when I look at those past posts they are really done well and the debates are similar and it does take a lot of time to actually read 10-20 pages long threads but they are really a good way to quench once thirst for knowledge or answering your doubts.

You have a point tho bro on that last sentence.

[sister herb]

Should we then stop discuss here as all topics have discussed already hundred of times?

(Well, maybe this discussion too in this thread. ;D )

[islamirama]

A question to you and other members on the board, would you prefer that you do not receive PMs when your posts are deleted? As in, should this auto feature be eliminated? Often times we do mass deletions and our reasoning is generalized such as "off-topic" or "thread cleanup." It's not necessarily to make anyone feel off-put by the PMs, but just to give reasoning so that we don't get a hundred PMs or posts asking why their post got deleted.

No, then we'll be left wondering which mods are haters and out to get us and secretly deleting out posts.

I"m aware of the 'clean up' updates, i was referring to other posts. Where the mgmt is trigger happy to delete my posts but only edits other members posts who were ranting against me or they do selective editing to make on side look better than the other. Also, as other members have expressed, there is a tendency of mgmt to have a last say and close thread quickly. yes, there are valid places where they need to clarify the matter before closing, but that is not always the case. Overall, it is a put off and makes one not bother posting here anymore.

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

How naive of me, I thought the purpose of the forum was the discussion of all kinds of topics of relevance for Muslims. I didn't know I was just supposed to be on the receiving end of dawah and nothing more.

Nobody is saying there cannot be any discussion. But unfortunately, many times what is taking place is very far from 'discussion'. I am sure in your experience you must have noticed this, and I am sure you can also appreciate there are valid reasons for threads to be closed and for someone to step in and offer clarity in confusion. In and of itself, this is not abuse of moderator power. You may disagree with thread closure or the closing comment in specific cases, but that relates to those specific cases and does not apply universally.

It is also clear from the various comments that we are talking about different scenarios, showing the mixture of factors involved, whether it is repetition of topics, dealing with argumentative posts or differences of opinion. That is why accusing the moderators of acting on the basis of mood or being trigger happy as if we have nothing else to do with our time is simply refusing to appreciate the complexity of the matter and the difficulty in moderating a forum.

We would much rather not spend our time deleting and editing other people's posts, but when they are calling each other morons, accusing each other of hypocrisy or promoting kufr, then we have a duty to act, and this shouldn't really come as a surprise.

[Futuwwa]

Here's a radical idea: If a poster acts badly, punish that poster. Delete that poster's posts, hand out personal sanctions if necessary. Don't carpet-bomb the entire thread and salt the earth, others may still want to discuss.

Oh, and several times I've seen mods close a thread, on their own assessment that it has run its course, even in the absence of any bad behaviour from anyone in there, and when I was still intending to reply, and actually advance the discussion rather than repeat the same.

[anatolian]

I must admit that my personal quarrel with another member caused this thread to be closed. Our posts were deleted and are not seen there now.