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leena_muslimah
12-25-2016, 12:14 AM
I'm planning to attend University of Michigan which is about an hour without traffic or weather conditions away from my house. I would like to dorm there, specifically the honors dorm, which is females only in all female halls. I am very serious about school therefore I most likely will spend a lot of time at the library which means late night driving. I understand travelling without a mahram is haram, but if anyone can take the time to cite ayats and hadiths that allow me as female to live on my own. I haven't seen anything against it except culturally of course. I know my parents are very close minded on this matter therefore during my senior year I would like to take time to convince them using Islam to my side. Thank you in advance.
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greenhill
12-25-2016, 05:17 AM
Welcome to the forum.

This is a very different question and the first I am hearing of this sort…. I guess, if we were to find employment somewhere that will require (some) travel, would the journey to work, alone, be considered haraam? That being the case, it will be a situation where many muslim women by definition, find themselves doing something haraam.

On the all girl dormitory, I cannot say for sure as there may be further considerations as I have heard (not got it authenticated) that even in massage, a non believing girl cannot give massage to a believing girl… hmmm..

I am not helping very much… but still, here's to wishing you a great stay.


:peace:
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*charisma*
12-25-2016, 12:58 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
I know my parents are very close minded on this matter therefore during my senior year I would like to take time to convince them using Islam to my side. Thank you in advance.
As they should be. Even if Islam allows you, if your parents say no, then you still can't go because they are your guardians and you have to obey them.

However, islamically you aren't allowed to stay overnight away from your home especially when it comes to living in a university where the university is mixed and non-islamic in nature (even if you're sleeping in an all-girls dorm). I'm assuming this will be your first year, so you probably don't have an idea of the real fitnah that is involved in universities either. Even though the dorm rooms are all female, it doesn't mean that guys aren't allowed there and that immoral things won't be happening. Most likely girls and guys will sleep together and see each other regardless that it's "female only dorms."

If you have a mahram relative (such as an uncle) in the area that you could stay with, that would be better. Otherwise just do the commute like everyone else. Or go to a university which is closer and do the pre-req's of your major, and then transfer to the bigger university to start on your program. If there's a bus service, you can use that and study on the bus too on your way there and your way back. You don't have to make excuses such as "I'm serious about my studying so I'll stay at the libraries late at night.." be more serious about deen and your family values because success comes from Allah solely. And if you're truly serious about your education, you'd make it work at the approval of your parents. There are students who work full time and go to school full time. So if they can make it happen, you can do the commute or find an alternative.
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anatolian
12-25-2016, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

As they should be. Even if Islam allows you, if your parents say no, then you still can't go because they are your guardians and you have to obey them.
Alaikum Salam sis charisma. Please don't take this offensive but I just want to understand your motivation. She said that her parents are very "close minded" people. Close minnded has a negative meaning in English language, as in many other languges. It means someone who is against everything or manythings without questioning them because of some unrelated reasons. So you say they should be so. Why do you think people should be like that? Were your parents like that? Were you happy with it? Would you rahter have an understanding parent?

Also you say even if Islam allows you to do something but if your parents don't, you can't do it. What makes your parents above Islam? Your parents are your guardians when you are a child and don't know the right and wrong. When you become adult you have your own speak. If you women cage yourselves no man frees you.
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*charisma*
12-25-2016, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Alaikum Salam sis charisma. Please don't take this offensive but I just want to understand your motivation. She said that her parents are very "close minded" people. Close minnded has a negative meaning in English language, as in many other languges. It means someone who is against everything or manythings without questioning them because of some unrelated reasons. So you say they should be so. Why do you think people should be like that? Were your parents like that? Were you happy with it? Would you rahter have an understanding parent?
Walaikum asalaam, jazak allahu khair for pointing out my mistake. I wasn't trying to infer that it's ok for them to be close-minded, but rather they should be protective over her. I think she may see them as close-minded because this is something they would not agree with due to their protectiveness of having her live away from the house. And for the reasons of the immorality that goes on in dorm rooms, it would be haram for her to live in such an environment, even if she was given the permission to do so. In American universities, there's a lot of alcohol, drugs, and sex that go on. Rape and sexual assault are also very high. This isn't the type of environment any Muslim parents would want their daughters in. Even if their daughters are moral and can be trusted, other people can't. If the parents really want to support their daughter's education, they'd be more involved with finding a common ground that they can both be happy with. Living an hour away from home isn't that big of a deal. If the commute was much longer, then it'd be more difficult.

Originally Posted by anatolian
Also you say even if Islam allows you to do something but if your parents don't, you can't do it. What makes your parents above Islam? Your parents are your guardians when you are a child and don't know the right and wrong. When you become adult you have your own speak. If you women cage yourselves no man frees you.
There are situations where doing something may not be halal or haram, but disobeying your parents is haram. My point was even if it was islamically ok for her to live away from her home but her parents are against her not living away from them, it would be her obligation at this point to follow her parent's request, no? Serving them is a type of jihad and one of the biggest rewards we can receive. Unless I'm mistaken, we can only disobey our parents if they are asking us to do something against Islam. If living away from the home was something fardh, then she could do whatever she wanted. However, this isn't the case so her parent's request comes first. Respecting and acknowledging your parent's position in islam is a part of faith, even if you're 100 years old. She lives in the US so she has a lot of opportunities to study wherever she wants. There's nothing wrong with catering to her parents wants when she is in the position to do so. Her parents are accepting of her studying at a large university an hour away from their home. I'm guessing she will also be driving herself so they are putting their trust in her to study and stay on track and make the commute regularly. I don't really see them as close-minded people.
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noraina
12-25-2016, 07:13 PM
Wa alaykum assalam,

As has been said, this is something you should really avoid. Not only is it your duty to obey your parents as long as they don't tell you do to anything haraam, but a young Muslim women shouldn't be staying away from her home or family during the night, it's simply not permitted. And a commute of an hour or two really isn't that bad, especially when you think it is in this way that you can uphold your deen and also obey your parents.

Universities are filled with fitnah, even here in the UK, recently in the news there was a report showing just how high cases of sexual harassment and assault are. It is okay to deal with during studying hours, but I can truly see where your parents are coming from in this regard, they are concerned for you and wish to protect you. Sometimes they can comes across as a little harsh or 'close-minded', but they are doing this for only your benefit and safety, in both the terms of the dunya and the akhirah. Parents tend to have vastly more life-experience then we will ever have, and perhaps they might seem a little 'restrictive' or 'old-fashioned' but that's because they've probably seen it all and only want what is the best for you.

When I had to go take quite a few exams at a college which was a good two-hour drive, my father would take me back and forth everyday because he didn't want me to stay there (as the teacher was suggesting) or even use the bus or taxi. He would literally spend the entire 1-3 hours of the exam in his car in the car park, and then take me back home. Was I annoyed? Maybe a little :D, but looking back he was doing what Allah swt has prescribed in regard to protecting the women in your family, and it's quite gratifying thinking you have people who love you this much, that we have a beautiful religion which offers us this safeguard.
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Delete.
12-25-2016, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
When I had to go take quite a few exams at a college which was a good two-hour drive, my father would take me back and forth everyday because he didn't want me to stay there (as the teacher was suggesting) or even use the bus or taxi. He would literally spend the entire 1-3 hours of the exam in his car in the car park, and then take me back home. Was I annoyed? Maybe a little :D, but looking back he was doing what Allah swt has prescribed in regard to protecting the women in your family, and it's quite gratifying thinking you have people who love you this much, that we have a beautiful religion which offers us this safeguard.

May Allah reward your father with the highest ranks of Jannah. You are blessed to have a father amongst the Saliheen. It makes me insanely happy to know that this protectiveness and respect for women still exists. May Allah reward him tremendously.
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noraina
12-25-2016, 07:19 PM
This is an extremely relevant topic by the way.

Even within my own family, some of my female cousins are living in the university dorms in another city even. And it is a huge risk subhanAllah, and not only for their deen. And it is not about not 'trusting' your own children, you can trust them but you cannot trust the world around them. And some parents don't understand the risks or problems, and if yours do understand them then it's only for your own benefit inshaAllah.
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noraina
12-25-2016, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by ___
May Allah reward your father with the highest ranks of Jannah. You are blessed to have a father amongst the Saliheen. It makes me insanely happy to know that this protectiveness and respect for women still exists. May Allah reward him tremendously.
Allahumma ameen :love:

And as Muslim women it's wonderful to know that Islam has prescribed this respect for us, it really is a blessing.
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leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 05:06 AM
A reply to all. How is the environment bad for me but not for a boy? See that is quite sexist right there. I had done my research and nowhere in the Quran or hadith says that women can't live on their own. I want to convince my parents to allow me to go. Besides I have worked so hard in high school and for them to be stuck in our culture and worried is selfish of them because I havvve the opportunity of possibly attending an ivy league school. How could a parent do such a thing because of a gender? Also islamically and scientifically men are more prone to fitnah and drugs so therefore the only people they should be worrying about is there sons. But of course not let us cage our daughters.
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leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by noraina
Wa alaykum assalam,

As has been said, this is something you should really avoid. Not only is it your duty to obey your parents as long as they don't tell you do to anything haraam, but a young Muslim women shouldn't be staying away from her home or family during the night, it's simply not permitted. And a commute of an hour or two really isn't that bad, especially when you think it is in this way that you can uphold your deen and also obey your parents.

Universities are filled with fitnah, even here in the UK, recently in the news there was a report showing just how high cases of sexual harassment and assault are. It is okay to deal with during studying hours, but I can truly see where your parents are coming from in this regard, they are concerned for you and wish to protect you. Sometimes they can comes across as a little harsh or 'close-minded', but they are doing this for only your benefit and safety, in both the terms of the dunya and the akhirah. Parents tend to have vastly more life-experience then we will ever have, and perhaps they might seem a little 'restrictive' or 'old-fashioned' but that's because they've probably seen it all and only want what is the best for you.

When I had to go take quite a few exams at a college which was a good two-hour drive, my father would take me back and forth everyday because he didn't want me to stay there (as the teacher was suggesting) or even use the bus or taxi. He would literally spend the entire 1-3 hours of the exam in his car in the car park, and then take me back home. Was I annoyed? Maybe a little :D, but looking back he was doing what Allah swt has prescribed in regard to protecting the women in your family, and it's quite gratifying thinking you have people who love you this much, that we have a beautiful religion which offers us this safeguard.
Actually in Islam it is not prohibited for a women to live on her own. Just as it is not for men.
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*charisma*
12-26-2016, 07:07 AM
Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
A reply to all. How is the environment bad for me but not for a boy? See that is quite sexist right there. I had done my research and nowhere in the Quran or hadith says that women can't live on their own. I want to convince my parents to allow me to go. Besides I have worked so hard in high school and for them to be stuck in our culture and worried is selfish of them because I havvve the opportunity of possibly attending an ivy league school. How could a parent do such a thing because of a gender? Also islamically and scientifically men are more prone to fitnah and drugs so therefore the only people they should be worrying about is there sons. But of course not let us cage our daughters.
What does this have to do with boys? And who said it wasn't bad for them either? We are talking about your situation. For the record, we are all humans and all prone to fitnah in different ways.

The haram is not in living alone (considering the person is morally sound). It's in regards to living in that environment. I'm under the assumption that you will be sharing a dorm with others? And you will be in an environment where girls and guys will still have the freedom to hook up and freely mix even though it's a female dormatory. Can you confirm differently? Usually freshmen are put together, sharing a room and bathrooms. They don't get a whole dorm apartment to themselves.

As I said before, you can talk to your parents, but you have to understand where they're coming from too. If they are willing to put in the work to make school work for you then that's great. If you're going to be stubborn and have it your way or the highway, then no one can really help you. You can be the smartest kid on the planet and fail in life simply because your parents are not happy with you. There has to be a compromise.

I understand your frustrations if your family is strict with you or if they treat you differently than they treat your brother for example, and I know you have dreams and aspirations that you do not want to be held back on doing, but the best thing you can do is find somewhere to live which is islamically acceptable and where your parents feel comfortable. Have your parents be involved in seeing the place and even the school. It may help also if there's a masjid nearby where you can ask a scholar about your situation and go from there. But you have to understand that the "dorm life" is not islamically acceptable, unless there's some circumstance which can prove it will be an ok environment to be in. So you'll need to figure out your priorities there.
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noraina
12-26-2016, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
Actually in Islam it is not prohibited for a women to live on her own. Just as it is not for men.
I understand where you're coming from sister, but it's not just about living on your own, it's about the environment in which you are on your own without anyone with you.

I actually know this very pious sister, she completed university a couple of years ago and didn't live in the dorms or on campus, but she said the environment itself is filled with fitnah and temptations, whatever your gender. She went as far as to say that she'd be worried for her son, even if he was living at home during his studies.

So, if you were a brother, I'd have given you exactly the same advice - do what is best Islamically, and obey your parents.

Within my community, there are many double-standards when it comes to the treatment of sons and daughters, and it is utterly wrong, it's hypocrisy. Within Islam the same rules apply to men as they do to women. However, whatever society does, whatever your community maybe doing, you should be following purely the principles based on Islam, whether that's in line with everyone else or not.

And according to Islam, you should avoid an environment where fitnah and temptation is possible (this applies to men and woman), and also try to please your parents. Perhaps find a compromise with them, a common ground? But don't follow what you want, follow what Islam says you should do. We don't know the specifics of your situation, but that would be my advice. And as I've said, sometimes parents can come across as too strict and over-protective (I've felt that many times) but, generally, it's for your own good.

Wassalam :)
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leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
I understand where you're coming from sister, but it's not just about living on your own, it's about the environment in which you are on your own without anyone with you.

I actually know this very pious sister, she completed university a couple of years ago and didn't live in the dorms or on campus, but she said the environment itself is filled with fitnah and temptations, whatever your gender. She went as far as to say that she'd be worried for her son, even if he was living at home during his studies.

So, if you were a brother, I'd have given you exactly the same advice - do what is best Islamically, and obey your parents.

Within my community, there are many double-standards when it comes to the treatment of sons and daughters, and it is utterly wrong, it's hypocrisy. Within Islam the same rules apply to men as they do to women. However, whatever society does, whatever your community maybe doing, you should be following purely the principles based on Islam, whether that's in line with everyone else or not.

And according to Islam, you should avoid an environment where fitnah and temptation is possible (this applies to men and woman), and also try to please your parents. Perhaps find a compromise with them, a common ground? But don't follow what you want, follow what Islam says you should do. We don't know the specifics of your situation, but that would be my advice. And as I've said, sometimes parents can come across as too strict and over-protective (I've felt that many times) but, generally, it's for your own good.

Wassalam :)
What if I get accepted to an ivy league school. I just got a letter from Columbia University and they seen to be interested in. What a great opportunity for me that is. I understand what you are talking about in terms of the environment but if one has set of beliefs and limits then inshallah nothing goes bad. I go to a public school and there is much fitnah probably not as much in college but still a good ordeal of it and I have not yet done anything even though I'm at the age of adolescence in which it is very easy to fall upon. There is also and Islamic club there I can join so I don't lose touch of Islam and mosques nearby.
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anatolian
12-26-2016, 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Walaikum asalaam, jazak allahu khair for pointing out my mistake. I wasn't trying to infer that it's ok for them to be close-minded, but rather they should be protective over her. I think she may see them as close-minded because this is something they would not agree with due to their protectiveness of having her live away from the house. And for the reasons of the immorality that goes on in dorm rooms, it would be haram for her to live in such an environment, even if she was given the permission to do so. In American universities, there's a lot of alcohol, drugs, and sex that go on. Rape and sexual assault are also very high. This isn't the type of environment any Muslim parents would want their daughters in. Even if their daughters are moral and can be trusted, other people can't. If the parents really want to support their daughter's education, they'd be more involved with finding a common ground that they can both be happy with. Living an hour away from home isn't that big of a deal. If the commute was much longer, then it'd be more difficult.
I also think that one hour of commute isn't too long and I would stay at home in that situation but it is not the matter. What if she lived 3 hours away? You are simply forbidding her to stay at dorm because there are immoralities happening in some dorms you know. How do you know that the dorm she is refering to is that kind of? What she tells us is a female only dorm which sounds quite Islamic. And even if it is the case it musnt be. It is your right to stay in a female only dorm and demand it to be like that but you telling people to avoid it because most of them are not. Also I believe you must be able seperate yourself from such kind of immoralities not only in the dorms but everywhere. Immorality is everywhere. Otherwise don't use internet because there is immorality in internet.



Originally Posted by *charisma*
There are situations where doing something may not be halal or haram, but disobeying your parents is haram. My point was even if it was islamically ok for her to live away from her home but her parents are against her not living away from them, it would be her obligation at this point to follow her parent's request, no? Serving them is a type of jihad and one of the biggest rewards we can receive. Unless I'm mistaken, we can only disobey our parents if they are asking us to do something against Islam. If living away from the home was something fardh, then she could do whatever she wanted. However, this isn't the case so her parent's request comes first. Respecting and acknowledging your parent's position in islam is a part of faith, even if you're 100 years old. She lives in the US so she has a lot of opportunities to study wherever she wants. There's nothing wrong with catering to her parents wants when she is in the position to do so. Her parents are accepting of her studying at a large university an hour away from their home. I'm guessing she will also be driving herself so they are putting their trust in her to study and stay on track and make the commute regularly. I don't really see them as close-minded people.
Where does it say disobeying your parents is haram? If you show me It would be appriciated. There is no difference between telling something to do which is haram and forbidding from something to do which is halal. Both are equally un-Islamic. And you say it is not the case but there are several ahadith which tells Muslims to study. The below hadith tells it is farz to study for every Muslim. What do you think about this?

It was related by Anas b. Malik that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.” [Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

What about the below Hadith?

The Prophet (s) said, “Seek knowledge even in China,”
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noraina
12-26-2016, 06:17 PM
Agreed, it is fardh upon every Muslim to study - but within the boundaries of Islam.

To @leena_muslimah, I've given you the advice I would give to my own sister, and I'm also in my late adolescence, if you feel you can remain firm to your deen whilst living on campus at university, then it is entirely up to you. However, I really caution you against disobeying your parents in this matter. They are allowing you to study at university and gain an education, not all girls have that choice unfortunately, so I think you should be willing to compromise. An hour's commute isn't so bad, for a short time I had to take that commute daily and it's not impractical at all. My parents were quite firm on me not living away from home for my studies, and trust me it is *entirely* for your benefit.

And, going to a famed institution isn't going to guarantee success in life. Perhaps it might make it easier, but you could do just as well anywhere as long as you have that drive and motivation, inshaAllah. :)
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anatolian
12-26-2016, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
Wa alaykum assalam,

As has been said, this is something you should really avoid. Not only is it your duty to obey your parents as long as they don't tell you do to anything haraam, but a young Muslim women shouldn't be staying away from her home or family during the night, it's simply not permitted. And a commute of an hour or two really isn't that bad, especially when you think it is in this way that you can uphold your deen and also obey your parents.

Universities are filled with fitnah, even here in the UK, recently in the news there was a report showing just how high cases of sexual harassment and assault are. It is okay to deal with during studying hours, but I can truly see where your parents are coming from in this regard, they are concerned for you and wish to protect you. Sometimes they can comes across as a little harsh or 'close-minded', but they are doing this for only your benefit and safety, in both the terms of the dunya and the akhirah. Parents tend to have vastly more life-experience then we will ever have, and perhaps they might seem a little 'restrictive' or 'old-fashioned' but that's because they've probably seen it all and only want what is the best for you.

When I had to go take quite a few exams at a college which was a good two-hour drive, my father would take me back and forth everyday because he didn't want me to stay there (as the teacher was suggesting) or even use the bus or taxi. He would literally spend the entire 1-3 hours of the exam in his car in the car park, and then take me back home. Was I annoyed? Maybe a little :D, but looking back he was doing what Allah swt has prescribed in regard to protecting the women in your family, and it's quite gratifying thinking you have people who love you this much, that we have a beautiful religion which offers us this safeguard.
So your father was a caring one who took you there and you were able to attend these exams. but the OP has already told us that her parents do not do such a thing. What if your father would neither allow you to go there to have the exams nor take you there by car? You would miss the exams. Would you be telling this story that happily or would you be complaining about your father? You need to make a just correlation between your and the OP's situation..
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noraina
12-26-2016, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
So your father was a caring one who took you there and you were able to attend these exams. but the OP has already told us that her parents do not do such a thing. What if your father would neither allow you to go there to have the exams nor take you there by car? You would miss the exams. Would you be telling this story that happily or would you be complaining about your father? You need to make a just correlation between your and the OP's situation..
I wasn't comparing the actual situation, that wasn't the correlation. I was just saying that sometimes parents can seem a little too over-protective (I did find it annoying at the time) but it is for our own benefit.

And from what the OP says, it seems like her parents don't mind her taking the commute on her own to the university, it's just they don't want her to stay on campus, so for her it's not a matter of her parents not letting her go on her own *and* not letting her stay on campus, they don't mind her taking the commute everyday. Her problem isn't not being allowed to go - it's whether she should stay on campus or not. I don't think her father is preventing her from studying. I was just 16 then so my father did mind me going on my own, and he could afford to take me there for three days.

Also, I was in a similar situation where my parents did not want me to leave home or live on campus for university. Hence I compromised and I am studying without having to move to another neighbourhood or city. :) I did complain a little at first but I'm fine with it now.
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*charisma*
12-26-2016, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
What if she lived 3 hours away? You are simply forbidding her to stay at dorm because there are immoralities happening in some dorms you know. How do you know that the dorm she is refering to is that kind of? What she tells us is a female only dorm which sounds quite Islamic. And even if it is the case it musnt be. It is your right to stay in a female only dorm and demand it to be like that but you telling people to avoid it because most of them are not. Also I believe you must be able seperate yourself from such kind of immoralities not only in the dorms but everywhere. Immorality is everywhere. Otherwise don't use internet because there is immorality in internet.
In the US, all of the dorms are like this...there are no restrictions to who comes and goes in the dorm rooms. All female dorm rooms means that only girls will be allowed to live there, but it doesn't keep them from having relationships in those dorms or anything like that. So what happens in a situation where her dorm roomate wants to sleep with her boyfriend while she's present? Because this happens. This is how filthy dorms get. No one really keeps it strict either. I have not heard of or seen anything that proves otherwise. However as I said in my previous post, if there's a way which caters to her islamically, then by all means, that's great and she can discuss that with her parents. If she had lived 3 hours away, then the same advice goes there too. She should live somewhere where it is acceptable. She can have her own apartment, or live with muslim girls who are morally sound. There are many options out there than to stay at a filthy dorm room. It does not seem that she has really done the research in regards to how the dorms are controlled or run. So I can't really judge on specifications, but through what I do know for sure, it is not an acceptable living condition. And you're absolutely right about getting exposed to immorality, but that's beyond our control. If we can control it, then that's what we should do.


Originally Posted by anatolian
Where does it say disobeying your parents is haram? If you show me It would be appriciated. There is no difference between telling something to do which is haram and forbidding from something to do which is halal. Both are equally un-Islamic. And you say it is not the case but there are several ahadith which tells Muslims to study. The below hadith tells it is farz to study for every Muslim. What do you think about this?
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Shall I not tell you of the greatest of major sins?” – three times – and we said, “Yes, O Messenger of Allaah.” He said: “Associating others in worship with Allaah, and disobeying one’s parents,” – and he was reclining, but he sat up and said, “And false speech and false witness.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2654; Muslim, 126.

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The pleasure of Allaah is in pleasing one’s father and the anger of Allaah is in angering one’s father.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1821; classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibaan and al-Haakim, from the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with him). The version narrated by al-Tabaraani refers to “parents” (instead of “father”). And there are very many ahaadeeth which state that it is obligatory to honour one’s parents and treat them kindly. Source

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have enjoined on man to be dutiful and kind to his parents. His mother bears him with hardship. And she brings him forth with hardship…” [al-Ahqaaf 46:15]


‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with them both) said: “A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and asked him for permission to participate in jihaad. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, ‘Are your parents alive?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Then your jihaad is with them.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2842; Muslim, 2549)

Source


It was related by Anas b. Malik that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.” [Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

What about the below Hadith?

The Prophet (s) said, “Seek knowledge even in China,”
The proven hadeeth is that which was narrated by Ibn Maajah from the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.’” (220. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. What is meant by knowledge here is knowledge of sharee’ah (Islamic knowledge). Al-Thawri said: “It is the knowledge for which no person has any excuse for not knowing.”


The 2nd one is fabricated: https://islamqa.info/en/13637

I do want to point out that her parents don't have a problem with her getting a secular education/going to school/learning, they have a problem with her moving out. So this begs the question--move out to where?? This is what she has to prepare for her argument with them and has to carry some islamic validity since this is what she's searching for. So far the only place she's asking about is the dorms of which she has no experience in and cannot defend.
Reply

leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
In the US, all of the dorms are like this...there are no restrictions to who comes and goes in the dorm rooms. All female dorm rooms means that only girls will be allowed to live there, but it doesn't keep them from having relationships in those dorms or anything like that. So what happens in a situation where her dorm roomate wants to sleep with her boyfriend while she's present? Because this happens. This is how filthy dorms get. No one really keeps it strict either. I have not heard of or seen anything that proves otherwise. However as I said in my previous post, if there's a way which caters to her islamically, then by all means, that's great and she can discuss that with her parents. If she had lived 3 hours away, then the same advice goes there too. She should live somewhere where it is acceptable. She can have her own apartment, or live with muslim girls who are morally sound. There are many options out there than to stay at a filthy dorm room. It does not seem that she has really done the research in regards to how the dorms are controlled or run. So I can't really judge on specifications, but through what I do know for sure, it is not an acceptable living condition. And you're absolutely right about getting exposed to immorality, but that's beyond our control. If we can control it, then that's what we should do.




The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Shall I not tell you of the greatest of major sins?” – three times – and we said, “Yes, O Messenger of Allaah.” He said: “Associating others in worship with Allaah, and disobeying one’s parents,” – and he was reclining, but he sat up and said, “And false speech and false witness.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2654; Muslim, 126.

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The pleasure of Allaah is in pleasing one’s father and the anger of Allaah is in angering one’s father.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1821; classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibaan and al-Haakim, from the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with him). The version narrated by al-Tabaraani refers to “parents” (instead of “father”). And there are very many ahaadeeth which state that it is obligatory to honour one’s parents and treat them kindly. Source

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have enjoined on man to be dutiful and kind to his parents. His mother bears him with hardship. And she brings him forth with hardship…” [al-Ahqaaf 46:15]


‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with them both) said: “A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and asked him for permission to participate in jihaad. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, ‘Are your parents alive?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Then your jihaad is with them.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2842; Muslim, 2549)

Source




The proven hadeeth is that which was narrated by Ibn Maajah from the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.’” (220. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. What is meant by knowledge here is knowledge of sharee’ah (Islamic knowledge). Al-Thawri said: “It is the knowledge for which no person has any excuse for not knowing.”


The 2nd one is fabricated: https://islamqa.info/en/13637

I do want to point out that her parents don't have a problem with her getting a secular education/going to school/learning, they have a problem with her moving out. So this begs the question--move out to where?? This is what she has to prepare for her argument with them and has to carry some islamic validity since this is what she's searching for. So far the only place she's asking about is the dorms of which she has no experience in and cannot defend.
Actually I have a muslim friend going to the same uni and we are going to request each other
Reply

leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
In the US, all of the dorms are like this...there are no restrictions to who comes and goes in the dorm rooms. All female dorm rooms means that only girls will be allowed to live there, but it doesn't keep them from having relationships in those dorms or anything like that. So what happens in a situation where her dorm roomate wants to sleep with her boyfriend while she's present? Because this happens. This is how filthy dorms get. No one really keeps it strict either. I have not heard of or seen anything that proves otherwise. However as I said in my previous post, if there's a way which caters to her islamically, then by all means, that's great and she can discuss that with her parents. If she had lived 3 hours away, then the same advice goes there too. She should live somewhere where it is acceptable. She can have her own apartment, or live with muslim girls who are morally sound. There are many options out there than to stay at a filthy dorm room. It does not seem that she has really done the research in regards to how the dorms are controlled or run. So I can't really judge on specifications, but through what I do know for sure, it is not an acceptable living condition. And you're absolutely right about getting exposed to immorality, but that's beyond our control. If we can control it, then that's what we should do.




The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Shall I not tell you of the greatest of major sins?” – three times – and we said, “Yes, O Messenger of Allaah.” He said: “Associating others in worship with Allaah, and disobeying one’s parents,” – and he was reclining, but he sat up and said, “And false speech and false witness.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2654; Muslim, 126.

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The pleasure of Allaah is in pleasing one’s father and the anger of Allaah is in angering one’s father.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1821; classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibaan and al-Haakim, from the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with him). The version narrated by al-Tabaraani refers to “parents” (instead of “father”). And there are very many ahaadeeth which state that it is obligatory to honour one’s parents and treat them kindly. Source

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have enjoined on man to be dutiful and kind to his parents. His mother bears him with hardship. And she brings him forth with hardship…” [al-Ahqaaf 46:15]


‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with them both) said: “A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and asked him for permission to participate in jihaad. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, ‘Are your parents alive?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Then your jihaad is with them.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2842; Muslim, 2549)

Source




The proven hadeeth is that which was narrated by Ibn Maajah from the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.’” (220. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. What is meant by knowledge here is knowledge of sharee’ah (Islamic knowledge). Al-Thawri said: “It is the knowledge for which no person has any excuse for not knowing.”


The 2nd one is fabricated: https://islamqa.info/en/13637

I do want to point out that her parents don't have a problem with her getting a secular education/going to school/learning, they have a problem with her moving out. So this begs the question--move out to where?? This is what she has to prepare for her argument with them and has to carry some islamic validity since this is what she's searching for. So far the only place she's asking about is the dorms of which she has no experience in and cannot defend.
Also, I know a muslim friend who made a deal with her roomate to not being her bf when she is present so nothing at nights and the dormmate respects her request.
Reply

*charisma*
12-26-2016, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
Actually I have a muslim friend going to the same uni and we are going to request each other
Have you seen the dorms there? Maybe you can see if you can have a tour and just inquire about it.

If you can get your request, that would be good. Also have you thought about sub-leases around the university? Sometimes those are better because it has a lot more privacy.
Reply

*charisma*
12-26-2016, 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
Also, I know a muslim friend who made a deal with her roomate to not being her bf when she is present so nothing at nights and the dormmate respects her request.
Yea like I said, you will have to figure out a way to make the place a better environment for you if you have any control in that. Otherwise, you'll have to seek other options.
Reply

Snel
12-26-2016, 09:59 PM
As *charisma* said earlier your parents approval is very important and making them angry or scared for your safety is something you absolutely do not want to do. There is also something else you have to understand, and that is that women and men are different. For example a man is more capable of physically defending himself than a woman is, and he can more easily prevent people for bothering him (or those close to him for that matter). A woman also has things that men don't have, some would even suggest that women are more intelligent than men. So one sex is not superior to the other but rather they complete each other.

So getting back to the university dorm-situation: As has been mentioned earlier there is really not much you can do if you find yourself in a situation where your friend wants to be with her boyfriend. Are you going to complain to the university? How long is it going to take for them to respond? And how serious is your case going to be taken by them? This is a scenario you have to consider. There are other scenarios such as harassment directed to yourself. It would be much more comfortable for you to have somebody close to you to defend you and to support you and make sure proper action is taken against the harasser, rather than you being all alone with your "friend".
Reply

leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Snel
As *charisma* said earlier your parents approval is very important and making them angry or scared for your safety is something you absolutely do not want to do. There is also something else you have to understand, and that is that women and men are different. For example a man is more capable of physically defending himself than a woman is, and he can more easily prevent people for bothering him (or those close to him for that matter). A woman also has things that men don't have, some would even suggest that women are more intelligent than men. So one sex is not superior to the other but rather they complete each other.

So getting back to the university dorm-situation: As has been mentioned earlier there is really not much you can do if you find yourself in a situation where your friend wants to be with her boyfriend. Are you going to complain to the university? How long is it going to take for them to respond? And how serious is your case going to be taken by them? This is a scenario you have to consider. There are other scenarios such as harassment directed to yourself. It would be much more comfortable for you to have somebody close to you to defend you and to support you and make sure proper action is taken against the harasser, rather than you being alone with your "friend".
But what if i have a muslim friend as a roomate and as i mentioned I know of a muslim girl who made a deal with her roomate
Reply

leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Snel
As *charisma* said earlier your parents approval is very important and making them angry or scared for your safety is something you absolutely do not want to do. There is also something else you have to understand, and that is that women and men are different. For example a man is more capable of physically defending himself than a woman is, and he can more easily prevent people for bothering him (or those close to him for that matter). A woman also has things that men don't have, some would even suggest that women are more intelligent than men. So one sex is not superior to the other but rather they complete each other.

So getting back to the university dorm-situation: As has been mentioned earlier there is really not much you can do if you find yourself in a situation where your friend wants to be with her boyfriend. Are you going to complain to the university? How long is it going to take for them to respond? And how serious is your case going to be taken by them? This is a scenario you have to consider. There are other scenarios such as harassment directed to yourself. It would be much more comfortable for you to have somebody close to you to defend you and to support you and make sure proper action is taken against the harasser, rather than you being all alone with your "friend".
Communication is the key
Reply

Snel
12-26-2016, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
But what if i have a muslim friend as a roomate and as i mentioned I know of a muslim girl who made a deal with her roomate
It's hard to find a true friend. Only when it really matter, when they have to compromise, you'll see their true face. You don't want to find out they'd sacrifice your friendship for their own pleasure while you're stuck with them in the middle of your studies.

Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
Communication is the key
Yes it's true. But there are still some problems that you cannot solve with mere communication. You can talk to the person and she would seem to be a very good person at first (you've communicated with her), but once you start living with her problems may arise. It's really a betting game, and from what society looks like in the west, your odds are very small. Whatever you may have communicated at the beginning is really not binding on your friend, meaning there are likely no repercussions if your friend wouldn't live up to her end of the bargain.
Reply

leena_muslimah
12-26-2016, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Snel
It's hard to find a true friend. Only when it really matter, when they have to compromise, you'll see their true face. You don't want to find out they'd sacrifice your friendship for their own pleasure while you're stuck with them in the middle of your studies.



Yes it's true. But there are still some problems that you cannot solve with mere communication. You can talk to the person and she would seem to be a very good person at first (you've communicated with her), but once you start living with her problems may arise. It's really a betting game, and from what society looks like in the west, your odds are very small. Whatever you may have communicated at the beginning is really not binding on your friend, meaning there are likely no repercussions if your friend wouldn't live up to her end of the bargain.
My Muslim friend that is most likely going to the same univeristy is really islamic. She is against dating and doing anything with a guy.
Reply

Delete.
12-26-2016, 11:21 PM
SubhanAllah, you asked the question and you didn't like the responses! These are gentle, understanding responses.. but the view of the pious scholars is that attending a mixed university is haram, whether you live there or not. And disobeying your parents is haram (with the exception that they ask you to disobey Allah, but they are not doing that in your case). We can't even say Uff to them, we can't rebuke them at all, it doesn't matter if we are 18 or 80, we are even commanded to respect parents who are non-Muslim, so what about those who are Muslim? There is Hikmah in these rulings, and no one intends to "cage" you. Allah protects us and Alhamdulilah He has given women many rights. If you choose to live at university, don't try to justify it with our Deen, because the fact is that the view of the righteous scholars who are on the good Aqeedah say that attending a mixed university is not permissible. And this isn't to oppress us, it isn't to restrict us from education, it is to forbid us from evil, and protect us from fitna. It is not an arguable matter, at all! We can't just use the Qur'an to justify our deeds and the desires of our nafs. Allah knows best.
Reply

*charisma*
12-26-2016, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
My Muslim friend that is most likely going to the same univeristy is really islamic. She is against dating and doing anything with a guy.
It seems there are a lot of unsure things here from your end. Its going to be difficult really to accept the thought of it being ok to move into these dorms with such unpreparedness. It really seems you dont know much about the life there at all but just want to live away from your family and are trying to find any reason to make it seem acceptable. I think youve received a lot of sound advice from different and experienced individuals mashallah. Inshallah allah eases your affairs and opens a door that is acceptable for your parents approval, your deen, and your protection ameen.
Reply

Snel
12-26-2016, 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by leena_muslimah
My Muslim friend that is most likely going to the same univeristy is really islamic. She is against dating and doing anything with a guy.
It's not just about your dorm-partner. It's also about the society that we're living in. Girls and women are abused very frequently in the west and especially in America. Harassment and abuses against women are common. Because of how the situation is a woman is much better off being with a company she can trust. If you were to go to the university and live in a dorm you'd be around strangers and people you can't really trust a large part of your time there. The friend that you're talking about is not a substitute to your family (or even your father alone), and your dorm wont give you the freedom and safety of a true home.
Reply

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