Not feeling like marrying here, what to do when family pressure comes?

[Serinity]

:salam:

I mean, I don't want children or a family here. I just feel like the political and social atmosphere to be too toxic. Or I am just over reacting.

But I geniunely do not want any of my off spring to live here. I already hate the poltical atmosphere and direction.

An attack on any value on Islam, is an attack on the whole religion and Allah. Be it Hijab, Niqab, etc. So I feel that the moment the kuffar try to use the laws to ban any part of Islam, that they are attacking Islam. Say the adhaan. Where is the Adhaan??

I just dont feel like risking my off spring to become Kuffar. What kind of burden would that be on The Day of Judgment?

Banning 1 thing leads to another. and in translation, what they are saying is "we dont want you to show your Islam!" What a disaster! Wallah. Because, if not by Hijab, Masjids, and Adhaan, how will our children's life be?

How will they show their Islam?

Our children will be left with the decision of choosing the Western culture and adopt kufr, or the Islamic one. If the government makes it hard for us to show our deen. Then it will make it harder for our children to do that. Making them choose the easier one, because of the setup.

Allahu alam.

[anatolian]

You are free. All is up to you. You can decide where to live. There is a rising anti-Islamic sentiment in Europe but know that there is also everywhere. Muslims persecute muslims in muslim lands. You must just know that even if all the world is against you, you still need to remain muslim, where ever you live. It is a struggle between you and them.

[Supernova]

Asalaamualaykum,

A comprehensive read on the life of All the Ambiyah, Rasool [SAW] & the illustrious companions will be proof that they themselves went through the same issues. In many cases it was actually worse. Going on your logic - should everyone think like that it will halt the growth of muslim population in western countries or countries with western values.

The Sahaba had the makkan tribes (and other tribes too), Persians and romans on their back but still moved forward with patience.

I do see your point, however your logic is flawed in this case.

[sister herb]

Our children will be left with the decision of choosing the Western culture and adopt kufr, or the Islamic one. If the government makes it hard for us to show our deen. Then it will make it harder for our children to do that. Making them choose the easier one, because of the setup.

We all have to make this decision and if the government makes it hard or harder than it´s today, the only way is that we (and our children) have to fight back. It wouldn´t be the first battle in this world.

I have seen similar pondering about this matter also among then westeners; they are wondering is it ok to make children for this world as here is so many problems with wars, in society, economy, pollution etc. Maybe also our parents were thinking same - but lucky to us, they decided to be strong and make us (their children) strong too. You can make same with your kids in the future. Give them a good education what increases their deen and their understanding about this world, life and Islam. At the end, it´s their own decision how they will choose - like it has been same with all of us.

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[Serinity]

So, I guess, we just have to fight back if the need arises.

If all Muslims did this, we'd basically "kill" ourselves. Not good. Counter productive. So basically, what I should do is make dua that any off spring I get, that Allah guides them, and protects them? Perhaps, my children may be the "revolutionaries" and change society for the better.

But we do not know that. But yeah, again, even if the whole world went against me, I should still remain Muslim, and fight back if need be.

Or I could just migrate, but that'd be hard. Ps. I know none outside my family, except a very few. I have almost 0 genuine friends lol. XD Only 1 I can think of lol.

But what if my children become careless of Islam, and don't care? Of course I will answer their questions etc. And all that. I just dont want the burden on the DOJ.

Allahu alam.

[sister herb]

What I meant about fighting back wasn´t meant any armed battle. Just refuse to follow different kind of hijab or prayer bans, refuse to stop showing their religion, speak openly about the faith. Speak with people and teach them to see what Islam really is. It is same what several Muslims are doing every day already.

We can´t know what and how our children will live or what kind of decisions they will make. Don´t ask those "what if"- questions. If you do so, you may always think only the worst answers.

If you decide to migrate and rise your children in some Muslim society, remember that it´s same where ever they grow up and live, they still at one day have to make their own decision about what kind of life style they will follow. The western influence has spreaded to all over the world - also to the Islamic societies. In Islamic countries may have mosques at every corners and you can keep adhan as your alarm clock but if people don´t keep Allah in their hearts, the mosques are only the buildings.

[Serinity]

What I meant about fighting back wasn´t meant any armed battle. Just refuse to follow different kind of hijab or prayer bans, refuse to stop showing their religion, speak openly about the faith. Speak with people and teach them to see what Islam really is. It is same what several Muslims are doing every day already.

We can´t know what and how our children will live or what kind of decisions they will make. Don´t ask those "what if"- questions. If you do so, you may always think only the worst answers.

If you decide to migrate and rise your children in some Muslim society, remember that it´s same where ever they grow up and live, they still at one day have to make their own decision about what kind of life style they will follow. The western influence has spreaded to all over the world - also to the Islamic societies. In Islamic countries may have mosques at every corners and you can keep adhan as your alarm clock but if people don´t keep Allah in their hearts, the mosques are only the buildings.

By fighting back, I meant "fight back with whatever means neccessary".

Yeah, I understand that I can't control my children or choose for them. I do my best, and no more. Allahu alam.

[Shamnadanu]

in here we have lot of masjids etc...a lot of true muslims in the land of india...likewise you said a large portion of muslims are following western...Thats why i desperately spoken in my old posts.

[noraina]

Wa alaykum assalam,

I sometimes think about this, there is definitely a rising anti-Islamic sentiment across Europe - just today I had a rather frightening experience when I was outside.

But, I think sometimes as Muslims we can have an idealistic view of the Muslim countries, as spiritual havens and 'bubbles' entirely separate from the negative influences of everything around them. The truth is far from that, the last time I went to a Muslim country, I had massive expectations and experienced a bit of a culture shock at the state of things around me, but that was my own fault.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of moving to a Muslim country where you could hear the adhaan everyday (subhanAllah!), not fear wearing the hijab outside, ect is very attractive, but I don't believe that where you live has much effect on your piety or righteousness.

As far as children is concerned, proper upbringing and tarbiyah is what it important. And that is hard. From when they are toddlers, guiding them and protecting them from haraam and bad influences, and when they are young adults steering them away from the bad decisions, keeping them first upon the deen and yet not being so overbearing you push them away from the religion. I honestly, honestly believe that if you invest in your children, that does not go to waste. 95% of the time, if you strive to teach and guide them, they will remain firm upon their religion. I'm almost sure of that.

I have cousins from Muslim countries who are so distant from the deen.

External surroundings or circumstances shouldn't affect what's inside one's heart - it is much harder in a non-Muslim country, I know that, but it isn't impossible to raise pious children here.

[aaj]

A Muslim's belief is to never lose hope. Prophet :saws1: said if you knew tomorrow the world will end, plant a tree today. That is looking at the world and life optimistically.

At the same time, Allah has promised hellfire to those who stay in oppressed lands and did not travel when they could.

Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?" They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination. 4:97

We are living in the last days and it's only a matter of time before the western nations kick muslims out of their lands. Rather then clinging to the west, isn't it time Muslims start thinking about making a home in a Muslim land. It's not utopia but millions of Muslims live there and managed to live there just fine, is that not better than live in the land of kufr and to wear mini skirts with hijab as part of school "policy" in the west. .

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7567301.html

[sister herb]

But, I think sometimes as Muslims we can have an idealistic view of the Muslim countries, as spiritual havens and 'bubbles' entirely separate from the negative influences of everything around them.

I was thinking same. Also for someones it may be even easier be a practicing Muslim in anti-Islamic west as you have to struggling for your rights to follow your own religion, it then keeps your faith "fresh" and reminds you how important it is to follow your daily routines like praying or wearing hijab. In more positive environment you may become lazy with religion as it´s so easy to follow it.

Just my thoughts.

[noraina]

I was thinking same. Also for someones it may be even easier be a practicing Muslim in anti-Islamic west as you have to struggling for your rights to follow your own religion, it then keeps your faith "fresh" and reminds you how important it is to follow your daily routines like praying or wearing hijab. In more positive environment you may become lazy with religion as it´s so easy to follow it.

Just my thoughts.

That's also true.

Maybe in a Muslim country it is easier as you are, in that sense, further away from haram influences and surrounded by a fairly Islamic environment.

But in a non-Muslim country, your struggle for your faith just highlights even more how valuable your religion is. And I think being surrounded by people who are not Muslims makes you very conscious of your own faith, and your duty to represent it well.

[Simple_Person]

Brother, i was HONESTLY planning to make hijra. My intention was ONLY for my deen. Back in my own home country, i saw a life of ease..less stress, masjid on every corner, hearing adhaan every time, eating meat and no stress if it is halal or not. Better weather, majority of my family living there. You could say everything that you could seek. The second year i went on the vacation, i looked beyond those "eases". The way people talked, the way people behaved..i was disgusted. There was NO imaan.

By mouth all "alhamdullilah ..this and alhamdulillah that"..when the word alhamdulillah was spoken..the whole story of them complaining. Or gossiping. Or using each other, because if you helped somebody..so he can help you in the future mentality which is prohibited in Islam. Those people know ma'sha'Allah a lot about Islam, but they have little to no understanding of it. Looking from Dunya perspective, making hijra was the PERFECT thing to do, but my intention was for the deen. I decided to not make hijra anymore. If i went there, i would have become like them. They do not leave you alone. What they do, they want you to also be part of it.

Sub'han'Allah, when i shortly made the decision to not go, Allah(swt) showed me the eye of the tornado. The west is a tornado, but it has also a eye. There are so to say cracks in this society, that gives you the ability to live a Islamic way of Life. To give you an example. In the west because of individualism, people leave you alone. You can practice your deen, go to the masjid, weak up for nightprayer. It is a calm life, while back home..people will bother you every day. They come to visit you when it is way past isha prayer for example. Or their talk is all about money and materialism. Macho behavior, their women are their slaves, or in my case they even defended the people in power, while knowing those guys were not oke. There are a lot of towns with a lot of different neighborhoods. Choose one which is mixed or majority foreigners. If that is the case, people respect each other, despite some not being Muslim. My own neighbors on one side are not Muslims, i have alhamdulillah very good contact with them. or my other neighbors (under), also not Muslim. Also i have very good contact with them.

If i were to go to my own country, it would have been a tsunami. There is no center in tsunami. It is all destruction.

[sister herb]

I think that at nowadays there are same haram influencies in the Muslim countries like they are everywhere. People have some nasty vices and they find the ways to fulfill them where ever they are. It might not be so visible like in the west but sometimes it also may be surprisingly visible.

[Simple_Person]

I think that at nowadays there are same haram influencies in the Muslim countries like they are everywhere. People have some nasty vices and they find the ways to fulfill them where ever they are. It might not be so visible like in the west but sometimes it also may be surprisingly visible.

Sister, i think we can safely say that it is better living in the west then back "home". In the west, you there is less of this "pretending". People are what they are, nobody is hiding it. When you know that, you can adapt to it. When people are trying to hide who they are, that becomes a bit more difficult. Do you say somebody is a Muslim (if he is hiding his true nature) or he is not a Muslim? Do you treat them as a Muslim or not? Do you say something, that they might use it against you (if they are hypocrites)? Back home things are way more complicated. I HATE the way people back home speak. A LOT of their talk is "dipped" in sarcasm. People have a lot of envy. They treat you as how they see themselves. For example, if somebody always talks with sarcasm they also treat your speech as if it is sarcasm. If you come in honesty, they think you are lying, because they themselves are like that. If you even swear on Allah's name as i don't like to do that, they still don't believe you as i suspect they also swear on Allah's name while lying..so think you are doing the same.

[sister herb]

Hmm... People are basicly same in everywhere. To some it´s easier to live and follow their religion in one kind of environment and to other it´s easier in somewhere else.

[Serinity]

:salam:

Honestly, Idk. I have to reassess.

[Mustafa16]

:salam:

Honestly, Idk. I have to reassess.

brother, I heard the Sharjah emirate in UAE is good to move to.....people are very pious, and many (if not most, I'm not sure) practice the salafi methodology, and it is better than moving to places like abu dhabi (within UAE) where things have become westernized and expats coming for hijrah have become disillusioned.....

[Simple_Person]

brother, I heard the Sharjah emirate in UAE is good to move to.....people are very pious, and many (if not most, I'm not sure) practice the salafi methodology, and it is better than moving to places like abu dhabi (within UAE) where things have become westernized and expats coming for hijrah have become disillusioned.....

The GULF-countries that are full of foreigners (western people ..), are being poisoned by alcohol and prostitution. Many women from eastern Europe and Asia are going to there to earn a lot of money by prostitution.

Documentary: https://youtu.be/rAWzUOkK2hw

[Serinity]

Brother, i was HONESTLY planning to make hijra. My intention was ONLY for my deen. Back in my own home country, i saw a life of ease..less stress, masjid on every corner, hearing adhaan every time, eating meat and no stress if it is halal or not. Better weather, majority of my family living there. You could say everything that you could seek. The second year i went on the vacation, i looked beyond those "eases". The way people talked, the way people behaved..i was disgusted. There was NO imaan.

By mouth all "alhamdullilah ..this and alhamdulillah that"..when the word alhamdulillah was spoken..the whole story of them complaining. Or gossiping. Or using each other, because if you helped somebody..so he can help you in the future mentality which is prohibited in Islam. Those people know ma'sha'Allah a lot about Islam, but they have little to no understanding of it. Looking from Dunya perspective, making hijra was the PERFECT thing to do, but my intention was for the deen. I decided to not make hijra anymore. If i went there, i would have become like them. They do not leave you alone. What they do, they want you to also be part of it.

Sub'han'Allah, when i shortly made the decision to not go, Allah(swt) showed me the eye of the tornado. The west is a tornado, but it has also a eye. There are so to say cracks in this society, that gives you the ability to live a Islamic way of Life. To give you an example. In the west because of individualism, people leave you alone. You can practice your deen, go to the masjid, weak up for nightprayer. It is a calm life, while back home..people will bother you every day. They come to visit you when it is way past isha prayer for example. Or their talk is all about money and materialism. Macho behavior, their women are their slaves, or in my case they even defended the people in power, while knowing those guys were not oke. There are a lot of towns with a lot of different neighborhoods. Choose one which is mixed or majority foreigners. If that is the case, people respect each other, despite some not being Muslim. My own neighbors on one side are not Muslims, i have alhamdulillah very good contact with them. or my other neighbors (under), also not Muslim. Also i have very good contact with them.

If i were to go to my own country, it would have been a tsunami. There is no center in tsunami. It is all destruction.

:salam:

Yes, I know it is hard, and may not even be able to do it myself. Allah :swt: knows best.

I honestly know NONE in the Middle East. I know only those in my home country (Kosovo) and here in the west.

The only good thing about Kosovo is the Masjids. Other than that, I don't like it at all. Lazy people, corrupt government, no revolution in infrastructure, etc. If you say "LETS CHANGE THIS COUNTRY!" they will laugh at you, if you are serious about something, they will laugh too.

I'll, honestly, hardly find any people there who wants to change society. You are better off doing everything yourself. but that is also unrealistic. Or I could just stand by ground and spread Islam here. Alhamdulillah, I am not giving up.

Kosovo is so corrupt you can barely earn 10$ a day. Teachers earn MAX around 400$ . How are they expecting revolution when greed is all they know??

[Simple_Person]

Yes, I know it is hard, and may not even be able to do it myself. Allah knows best.

I honestly know NONE in the Middle East. I know only those in my home country (Kosovo) and here in the west.

The only good thing about Kosovo is the Masjids. Other than that, I don't like it at all. Lazy people, corrupt government, no revolution in infrastructure, etc. If you say "LETS CHANGE THIS COUNTRY!" they will laugh at you, if you are serious about something, they will laugh too.

I'll, honestly, hardly find any people there who wants to change society. You are better off doing everything yourself. but that is also unrealistic. Or I could just stand by ground and spread Islam here. Alhamdulillah, I am not giving up.

Kosovo is so corrupt you can barely earn 10$ a day. Teachers earn MAX around 400$ . How are they expecting revolution when greed is all they know??

If we look at things from the RIGHT perspective, sub'han'Allah, a lot of things make sense. Just like Kosovo as you have described, you could say at least where i come from the Middle East is the same. So looking from the right perspective, it is also a blessing from Allah(swt) that many of the honest brothers and sisters who truly want to practice the deen, have a choice. Also because living in a western countries, i can interact with Muslims who do not have the same skin color and background. Thus you see each other really as brothers with Islam being the bond between each other. I had never encountered a brother in dark skin color in my life back home. I was startled and i ran away when i for the first time encountered one (although i was a child back then).

But when i interact with other dark brothers, it is very strange, but i do not see color. I just see another brother sitting next to me or praying next to me. Where Islam started and surrounding Mecca..it has become all rotten you could say. An uncle of mine has went to Mecca for Hadj. When he came back he was describing how beautiful it was. While hearing brother Nouman Ali Khan, he was sad when he saw surrounding of Mecca. He said all plastic bottles and junk everywhere. Which showed to me that my own uncle saw all those garbage surrounding Mecca and the roads as "something normal".

[Serinity]

If we look at things from the RIGHT perspective, sub'han'Allah, a lot of things make sense. Just like Kosovo as you have described, you could say at least where i come from the Middle East is the same. So looking from the right perspective, it is also a blessing from Allah(swt) that many of the honest brothers and sisters who truly want to practice the deen, have a choice. Also because living in a western countries, i can interact with Muslims who do not have the same skin color and background. Thus you see each other really as brothers with Islam being the bond between each other. I had never encountered a brother in dark skin color in my life back home. I was startled and i ran away when i for the first time encountered one (although i was a child back then).

But when i interact with other dark brothers, it is very strange, but i do not see color. I just see another brother sitting next to me or praying next to me. Where Islam started and surrounding Mecca..it has become all rotten you could say. An uncle of mine has went to Mecca for Hadj. When he came back he was describing how beautiful it was. While hearing brother Nouman Ali Khan, he was sad when he saw surrounding of Mecca. He said all plastic bottles and junk everywhere. Which showed to me that my own uncle saw all those garbage surrounding Mecca and the roads as "something normal".

But I think it is also a problem if we leave the Middle east altogether and stay here.

Change has rarely ever come without opposition. So for change to happen, expect angry people coming at you. Opposition, etc.

Because if we leave and stay here, then whom will come and make Middle East a more Islamic Society? What I mean is. If all the good people leave, who will better the society?

We need to come back to our foundation - The Quran and Sunnah. Ingrain Tawheed (Oneness, and Pure Monotheism) in our hearts. Once our hearts are united under Tawheed, with the help of Allah. NONE can touch us.

From another thread, you said that This Ummah will have the punishment in this world and in the Akhira, we will have none. (For those who are punished in this life). About the hadith. IF we could just unite under Islam completely, that'd be nice. But reality is, we aren't.

So there are 2 things:

1. If we leave those countries, it might have bad consequences. Because I see a lot of people migrating because they have it worse, and the west has it better (in dunyah perspective that is) but that mindset is flawed. Cause if everyone thought like that, then the country would be all empty. No revolution etc.

2. We have to have Tawheed in our hearts, and unite under that.

For a Law to be implemented the right conditions has to be met. Many times, we can not wait for that, we have to make it happen.

I might be wrong on something - but the gist of is - What is best Deen-wise? Wouldn't it be better to live where the majority of Muslims are, and change THAT society to a more Islamic one??

Because, wouldn't it be easier?

[Simple_Person]

But I think it is also a problem if we leave the Middle east altogether and stay here.

Change has rarely ever come without opposition. So for change to happen, expect angry people coming at you. Opposition, etc.

Because if we leave and stay here, then whom will come and make Middle East a more Islamic Society? What I mean is. If all the good people leave, who will better the society?

We need to come back to our foundation - The Quran and Sunnah. Ingrain Tawheed (Oneness, and Pure Monotheism) in our hearts. Once our hearts are united under Tawheed, with the help of Allah. NONE can touch us.

From another thread, you said that This Ummah will have the punishment in this world and in the Akhira, we will have none. (For those who are punished in this life). About the hadith. IF we could just unite under Islam completely, that'd be nice. But reality is, we aren't.

So there are 2 things:

1. If we leave those countries, it might have bad consequences. Because I see a lot of people migrating because they have it worse, and the west has it better (in dunyah perspective that is) but that mindset is flawed. Cause if everyone thought like that, then the country would be all empty. No revolution etc.

2. We have to have Tawheed in our hearts, and unite under that.

For a Law to be implemented the right conditions has to be met. Many times, we can not wait for that, we have to make it happen.

I might be wrong on something - but the gist of is - What is best Deen-wise? Wouldn't it be better to live where the majority of Muslims are, and change THAT society to a more Islamic one??

Because, wouldn't it be easier?

I have pondered about this also, there IS A WAY.. What is this way? Well look at Mecca of back then. It was corrupted to the bone. So compare it with the Middle East of today. However Islam did not gained its foundation in Mecca, but in Medina. So now is the question, what was Medina so different compared to Mecca? The Muslims gathered as a group..as like minded people. If you are as in individual trying to change those people based on words that indeed are truthful, they will laugh at you and it is very hard to create change. As the people especially your own family members will see you as a joke. However, Medina of back then gained a lot of support because the group of Muslims had same mentality of Islam. Like a light-bulb turning on in a dark room.

So going to the Middle East isn't that big of an issue and CAN be achieved, but on your own, it is near impossible. If a group of Muslims together would make hijra and for example live near each other. Practice Islam accordingly, it is also a psychological pillar that keeps the moral of the Muslims in that group up. Muslims then can help each other, start a business together. This small group can be then the light-bulb of other Muslims seeing how Islam should be practiced.

The problem we have as Muslims in the west. We are from all different part of the world and every one of us thinks only about their own situation. Not as a whole. The question is which country to make hijra to? Do all of the people have degrees that the country would want them as foreigners to add to society there? Do they all speak the same language? So there is a lot to think about, but making hijra as a group is possible to change a society slowly.

[Shamnadanu]

Dont Run...Fear Allah...yoh have nowhere to hide..who are you hiding from...From Allah's tests or from Government?! You have nowhere to go....say Alhamdullillah

[piXie]

:salam:

I mean, I don't want children or a family here. I just feel like the political and social atmosphere to be too toxic. Or I am just over reacting.

But I geniunely do not want any of my off spring to live here. I already hate the poltical atmosphere and direction.

:wasalamex

You are not overreacting if you do not want to raise your children in the West. Make duaa to Allaah and He will help you.

[Serinity]

:salam:

In regards to children, I can not force them in anything in regards to Islam. I know what evil consequences that can lead to (them hating Islam never wanting anything to do with it)

While I do regard the laws of Allah as the Highest Priority, I can not force them. Right? Cause this page seems quite unreasonable (I see no reason as to why one should force??)

https://islamqa.info/en/212658

[piXie]

:salam:

In regards to children, I can not force them in anything in regards to Islam. I know what evil consequences that can lead to (them hating Islam never wanting anything to do with it)

While I do regard the laws of Allah as the Highest Priority, I can not force them. Right? Cause this page seems quite unreasonable (I see no reason as to why one should force??)

https://islamqa.info/en/212658

:wasalamex

We live in a world where every one of us is being forced to do something one or another. Parents force their children to go to bed n wake up early and they force them to go to school don't they - for their betterment n societies betterment. Having said that, there is guidance upon raising children in Islam including teaching them to love Allah and setting a good example as parents. This way in shaa Allaah - forcing them won't be necessary as they will do it out of Allahs love and fear themselves.

[Serinity]

:wasalamex

We live in a world where every one of us is being forced to do something one or another. Parents force their children to go to bed n wake up early and they force them to go to school don't they - for their betterment n societies betterment. Having said that, there is guidance upon raising children in Islam including teaching them to love Allah and setting a good example as parents. This way in shaa Allaah - forcing them won't be necessary as they will do it out of Allahs love and fear themselves.

Yes, I know being completely lenient is not good, nor is being too harsh. balance. Do whatever is necessary in a given situation. the world is not black and white.

[Indefinable]

Yes, I know being completely lenient is not good, nor is being too harsh. balance. Do whatever is necessary in a given situation. the world is not black and white.

What did you decide?

[Serinity]

What did you decide?

I want to marry, but undecided on where.

[ardianto]

I want to marry, but undecided on where.

Getting a spouse is not as simple as choosing a home. If you want to live in City "A" you could go there and seek a house for sale or for rent. As long as you had money you could live there.

If you want to get a wife?. You could go to the place that you like and found women who were looking for husband. But if no one of them was willing to marry you, then how could you get married at there?.

Spouse can come from anywhere. She can come from distant place, she can come from your neighbor house. If you only look at one place, probably you would miss an opportunity that come from another place.

[Serinity]

JazakAllah khayr for the feedback / suggestion.

Didn't think of that, lol. Is treating marriage as business a good approach?? Cuz getting feelings into it doesnt seem like a good idea atm.

Allahu alam.

[Indefinable]

JazakAllah khayr for the feedback / suggestion.

Didn't think of that, lol. Is treating marriage as business a good approach?? Cuz getting feelings into it doesnt seem like a good idea atm.

Allahu alam.

Marriage on the whole or the approach to the marriage process, as in seeking a partner?

[ardianto]

Is treating marriage as business a good approach??

Do not carry business mindset into marriage because it will makes you expect to gain more than what you give, and would stop giving if you didn't gain what you expect.

In business you might spend much money to make your store convenient for the visitors. But it's because you expect the visitors to buy much. In business you might give a gift for your customer. But it's because you expect your customer to give profit more than the gift you have given. And if your customer did not give profit that you expect, you would stop give him a gift. This mindset should not be exist in marriage.

What should exist in marriage is love. And in love, someone has to be able to give without expect something. A husband give something to his wife not because expect something, but because love. The wife give something to the her husband not because expect something, but because love. This is what will raise happiness in the marriage.

[Serinity]

Do not carry business mindset into marriage because it will makes you expect to gain more than what you give, and would stop giving if you didn't gain what you expect.

In business you might spend much money to make your store convenient for the visitors. But it's because you expect the visitors to buy much. In business you might give a gift for your customer. But it's because you expect your customer to give profit more than the gift you have given. And if your customer did not give profit that you expect, you would stop give him a gift. This mindset should not be exist in marriage.

What should exist in marriage is love. And in love, someone has to be able to give without expect something. A husband give something to his wife not because expect something, but because love. The wife give something to the her husband not because expect something, but because love. This is what will raise happiness in the marriage.

I meant when searching. Not when inside marriage.

Like for me business is:

Ask:

Do you smoke? (Deal breaker if yes) if no, continue.

About deen, and Aqeedah. (Beliefs, in other words, do you believe in Allah :swt: and His Oneness? His Angels? Qadr? Qiyamah? His Messengers :as:)

Shia or Sunni?? If Shia, check whether she really is. If she is, then deal breaker. if Sunni, Imma check that too..

Is this ok? Enough?
@Indefinable

As in how to approach marriage.

[Simple_Person]

I meant when searching. Not when inside marriage.

Like for me business is:

Ask:

Do you smoke? (Deal breaker if yes) if no, continue.

About deen, and Aqeedah. (Beliefs, in other words, do you believe in Allah :swt: and His Oneness? His Angels? Qadr? Qiyamah? His Messengers :as:)

Shia or Sunni?? If Shia, check whether she really is. If she is, then deal breaker. if Sunni, Imma check that too..

Is this ok? Enough?
@Indefinable

As in how to approach marriage.

I have found another method that is i THINK more solid in to finding a genuine spouse.

When you talk to her, put some specific kind of questions in the conversations, as if you are not specifically asking for those questions. For example, asking her some general questions of less importance, to hide the real questions like what kind of color is your favorite color, but somewhere in between the questions asking her why people cry during prayer?. If she says, that is sign of imaan, you asking like a "ignorant" person as..huh? how does that work?. If somebody has experienced taste of imaan they will try to explain it in the best of their abilities. When somebody has tasted imaan once, that is for example good indication you have hooked on a good spouse. As that person is willing to go back to that state of ever time again wanting to taste imaan. If that person has never tasted imaan, well it is i think IMPOSSIBLE to describe imaan then :).

Also other questions of for example, "Are you a good person?". The person who ponders a lot, will tell you the RIGHT answer. Ask her/him questions that needs pondering, because from a psychological perspective, when somebody would ask you something, we tend to answer it directly. People who are hiding their true nature and pretend to be something they are not, will NOT ponder for example on things they don't find important. Thus their answer, will be a shallow answer that is based on common knowledge and understanding. While a person who ponders often will give you a deeper answer to your question.

It has taken me almost 4 years and i have till now come up with 4 questions. Pay attention to details, her/his behavior, listen to the answer and during that process/analyze the answer looking for contradictions. If there are no contradictions to such a answer, you will in the end even learn something beneficial. Then ask for example genuine questions of how come they see it like that to really benefit from their wisdom. So all in all, if it is a shallow person, you benefit from because you do not marry such a person. If it is not a shallow person, you benefit from, as you learn one or more new things and marry in'sha'Allah :).

If you are content with her/him and want to marry him/her, tell him/her at the end of the conversation with what you just have done..with certain type of questions. If you were NOT content with the answers given, DON'T TELL them anything with the questions you have asked. As a person who is hiding their true nature will learn and trick somebody else in their trap. Keep such snakes, blind, don't show them how they can trick people in to making them believe they are genuinely honest people and in the end ruining somebody's life.

In case of parents judging a spouse for their children. I have come up with a different strategy. Also, psychological aspect. If your child is content with certain type of spouse, tell the child to tell that guy/girl, that his/her parent will test him, so he/she KNOWS. Then as a parent you say things that are contradictory to Islam and looking at the behavior of the individual. If he/she is genuinely a person who follows deen, then he/she will correct the person(father/mother), no matter who it is. Speaking out against injustice should be part of the Muslim behavior. If somebody would not do that, that shows that they will also not do that when your child is in a bad situation. Having taqwa of Allah(swt), is very important.

It could be indeed that this strategy is wrong, although i myself haven't seen that yet. If anyone of you does indeed see something wrong with this strategy, please correct me or if you have any addition/tweaking, please do share.

However, i will not give you my questions :). Although i have given 2 questions and the answer to only 1 i also have given.

[ardianto]

I meant when searching. Not when inside marriage.

Like for me business is:

Ask:

Do you smoke? (Deal breaker if yes) if no, continue.

About deen, and Aqeedah. (Beliefs, in other words, do you believe in Allah :swt: and His Oneness? His Angels? Qadr? Qiyamah? His Messengers :as:)

Shia or Sunni?? If Shia, check whether she really is. If she is, then deal breaker. if Sunni, Imma check that too..


Is this ok? Enough?

Bro, when you are looking for a wife actually you are not in the position like company owner that select the best among the job applicants, but you will be in the position like the job applicants because you must compete with many other men who are looking for a wife too.

So, rather than thinking how to select, it's better if you think how to make you be selected.

[Serinity]

I don't like to compete with other men.

If any woman dislikes me, I rather have her say it straight to me. I can't be bothered to think what she thinks lol.

[Simple_Person]

I don't like to compete with other men.

If any woman dislikes me, I rather have her say it straight to me. I can't be bothered to think what she thinks lol.

Bro, you are good at bromance, but a woman needs romance. That must be one of your issues. A flower sometimes isn't big of problem ;D

No but serious. We brothers really need to clean up our act. A spouse isn't a easy task. We need to learn to be romantic, we need to learn to listen, we need to learn to know how to make a woman laugh. We need to learn to be spontaneous. Learn to cook, too clean. To know how to make her special. That we include her ..as a team in the decisions that are made for a household. A woman is also a good adviser if you let her. I believer she is adaptable, as to how you as a person are, she will adapt to that. So the more intellectual you become, the more intellectual she becomes if she is not. Or the more dumb she becomes if you aren't that intellectual yourself. Just like how friends are among each other. Often friends find the same things important and fun and their intellect is about the same.

At the end, it shouldn't be because we MUST DO, it should be that we even love to know and do these things. I mean how awesome is it, that your spouse loves you even more for how special you make her. Or that she gives a smile when you enter the house. You serve her, she serves you. Fulfillment of a relationship. So we must fix ourselves first and in that journey when finding a spouse be critical to finding the right spouse.

[Serinity]

you know the "what a drag" person?

I love being intellectual, etc. Nothing wrong with that. I don't think much of romance. Atm I feel it is a trap. Not something I think of really. It is just a hindrance in my way. Lol. you see. I am not a heartless person.

Romance is not something one should think of when unmarried. I will just have it come naturally anyway.

Before marriage, all I see is business. lol. you see, she is going to the mother of my children. Can't have a prostitute, or a deviant, or an immoral person, ya know.

I don't like romance, atm. I don't even know what that really is lol.

Before marriage: Business.
after marriage: Business but with love."Love" just sounds cheesy to me. If she loves Allah, obv I will love her lol.

[Simple_Person]

you know the "what a drag" person?

I love being intellectual, etc. Nothing wrong with that. I don't think much of romance. Atm I feel it is a trap. Not something I think of really. It is just a hindrance in my way. Lol. you see. I am not a heartless person.

Romance is not something one should think of when unmarried. I will just have it come naturally anyway.

Before marriage, all I see is business. lol. you see, she is going to the mother of my children. Can't have a prostitute, or a deviant, or an immoral person, ya know.

I don't like romance, atm. I don't even know what that really is lol.

Before marriage: Business.
after marriage: Business but with love."Love" just sounds cheesy to me. If she loves Allah, obv I will love her lol.

What you could do is observe the behavior of others. As we know that only marriage is permissible as boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is forbidden, just observe the behavior of people as if you are observing and writing down animal behavior in the jungle (no offense to my fellow brothers and sister who already are married. You guys make great observation subjects ;D).

A woman is mostly driven by emotion, i just recently thanks to a sister realized that this is also a logical reason why women are mostly driven by emotion instead of us men by logic, rationality and reason.

A uncle of mine as far as i have come to know him, he thinks as long as a man just has to work and bring money the rest will work fine. He is now divorced with 4 children. Still has the same mentality.

A marriage is so much more than just that. Financial aspect, love aspect, respect aspect, ..and more that my fellow married brothers and sisters can fill in that i don't even know myself. That is why choosing the RIGHT job is also essential. You don't want to be away all the time and come home late every day. There is the professional life to earn money and there is the personal life to have a life. No professional life = stress at home which can lead to divorce, no personal life but 100% professional life = divorce :). Balance is super important but finding the right spouse is even MORE important. If you have a spouse that only looks at what people have, she will NEVER be satisfied with the amount of money you have. Always want more.

My advice bro, we unmarried brothers have a long way to go before we can wish for a spouse that suits our wishes ;D.

BTW, often you hear people..after marriage than this and that..however before marriage it is wise if we study about at least how things should go or can go. Or be a bit prepared for it. If your spouse says, do you love me..and you responding ..didn't i say last week that i loved you? :giggling:

[Serinity]

What you could do is observe the behavior of others. As we know that only marriage is permissible as boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is forbidden, just observe the behavior of people as if you are observing and writing down animal behavior in the jungle (no offense to my fellow brothers and sister who already are married. You guys make great observation subjects ;D).

A woman is mostly driven by emotion, i just recently thanks to a sister realized that this is also a logical reason why women are mostly driven by emotion instead of us men by logic, rationality and reason.

A uncle of mine as far as i have come to know him, he thinks as long as a man just has to work and bring money the rest will work fine. He is now divorced with 4 children. Still has the same mentality.

A marriage is so much more than just that. Financial aspect, love aspect, respect aspect, ..and more that my fellow married brothers and sisters can fill in that i don't even know myself. That is why choosing the RIGHT job is also essential. You don't want to be away all the time and come home late every day. There is the professional life to earn money and there is the personal life to have a life. No professional life = stress at home which can lead to divorce, no personal life but 100% professional life = divorce :). Balance is super important but finding the right spouse is even MORE important. If you have a spouse that only looks at what people have, she will NEVER be satisfied with the amount of money you have. Always want more.

My advice bro, we unmarried brothers have a long way to go before we can wish for a spouse that suits our wishes ;D.

BTW, often you hear people..after marriage than this and that..however before marriage it is wise if we study about at least how things should go or can go. Or be a bit prepared for it. If your spouse says, do you love me..and you responding ..didn't i say last week that i loved you? :giggling:

Well. I have been around women quite a while. When I was 6-8-9 years old.

I guess, like life, you have to "deal with it". xD Tho, I don't like these comparisons of men vs. women or women vs. men lol.

Sometimes being completely "logical" is not being completely reasonable.

Men also have emotions but not to the extent of women. When my father could not breathe, and got taken to the hospital. my mom cried for days. I felt sadness too, cried too, once or twice, cuz I wanted him guided. etc. But not to the extent of my mom.

I felt sadness, but didn't cry all the time. Tho, crying is good. It shows one's heart is soft.

Being all mr. "Not crying" guy, who supresses his emotions, etc. That is just stupid. And this whole "Men don't cry" is cultural ignorance. Lol.

But yeah. xD Lol. I want to work max 6 hours a day with good wage. In Shaa' Allah.

[M.I.A.]

serenity..

you dont even have a wife yet..

HOW DO YOU KNOW... HOW KIDS WORK?!!!

o_0

they will suprise you god willing.

[Indefinable]

I meant when searching. Not when inside marriage.

Like for me business is:

Ask:

Do you smoke? (Deal breaker if yes) if no, continue.

About deen, and Aqeedah. (Beliefs, in other words, do you believe in Allah :swt: and His Oneness? His Angels? Qadr? Qiyamah? His Messengers :as:)

Shia or Sunni?? If Shia, check whether she really is. If she is, then deal breaker. if Sunni, Imma check that too..

Is this ok? Enough?
@Indefinable

As in how to approach marriage.

Oh definitely have that approach - as in the business approach when seeking a potential. It's better not to have any attachment/emotions involved until after the marriage has taken place imo.

1) Assess the woman to see if you are attracted to her physically

2) Ask her (with wali present of course) questions regarding compatibility

3) Less emotions involved at the pre-stage, the better

4) Observe how she interacts with others

5) Ask others about her regarding her behaviour

Also - you should do well to have a list of questions to determine if she is the right person for you. If for example you want a wife to be a stay at home mother, and not work outside the home, then make this known beforehand, otherwise it will cause endless arguments later on.

Finally - May Allaah subhanahu wa ta'ala bless you with a righteous wife and children who are the coolness of your eyes.

[Serinity]

Ok, I am set on going business.

I'll definitely try to not have any emotions in any judgment in the pre-stage.

Because emotions, etc. may lead to infatuation which may lead to preconcieved Judgments, and may affect my views, etc. And I may compromise without knowing, etc. Like I may overlook, etc.

Ultimately, Allah knows best.

[Simple_Person]

Oh definitely have that approach - as in the business approach when seeking a potential. It's better not to have any attachment/emotions involved until after the marriage has taken place imo.

1) Assess the woman to see if you are attracted to her physically

2) Ask her (with wali present of course) questions regarding compatibility

3) Less emotions involved at the pre-stage, the better

4) Observe how she interacts with others

5) Ask others about her regarding her behaviour

Also - you should do well to have a list of questions to determine if she is the right person for you. If for example you want a wife to be a stay at home mother, and not work outside the home, then make this known beforehand, otherwise it will cause endless arguments later on.

Finally - May Allaah subhanahu wa ta'ala bless you with a righteous wife and children who are the coolness of your eyes.

Jazakallahu khairan sister. Very valuable information you just have shared :).

[Indefinable]

Ok, I am set on going business.

I'll definitely try to not have any emotions in any judgment in the pre-stage.

Because emotions, etc. may lead to infatuation which may lead to preconcieved Judgments, and may affect my views, etc. And I may compromise without knowing, etc. Like I may overlook, etc.

Ultimately, Allah knows best.

Always weigh the pros and cons, pray Istikhara and then place your trust in Allaah subhanahu wa ta'ala.