lately, i've been struggling with the issues of non muslims going to hell. I mean, there are like millions of non-muslim suffering throughout the world (yazidis, christians, hindus, etc) alongside muslims as well. I mean with muslims, I guess it reassuring knowing they enter heaven but for non muslims, i struggle with it. I mean, i feel cruel for thinking despite suffering in this life, they suffer even worse in the next and like i'm disregarding my compassion for them just due to their beliefs and I am just like, oh, too bad, so sad,which I can't help but feel is cruel. what do you think?
Asalaamualaykum.
Dear brother in Islam - you must seriously contemplate that Allah SWT is the supreme controller of the entire universe.
So when you say that you feel that it is "cruel" you are implicating Allah SWT as being cruel which is entirely against the Sifath of Allah SWT & puts your imaan at risk - (In fact, scholars of the past would have immediately declared Kufr upon you for even saying that)
This problem of yours generally stems from a lack of understanding (or in some cases total lack of knowledge) about the 99 Names/Qualities of Allah SWT.
So as to relax your mind on this issue, you must understand that Allah SWT is Al-Adl (The one who has the highest calibre of justice). You on the other hand have limited Adl. If you continue to read and ponder upon the 99 names of Allah SWT, you will come to realise your real position in front of Allah SWT.
You & I in reality with limited intelligence, justice, compassion ETC will never understand the system of our creator who possesses unlimited intelligence Etc.
Based on this you cannot question the system of Allah SWT.
I suggest that you take some time - sit with an Aalim and ask him to briefly explain the Sifath of Allah SWT.
Because you asked the question doesnt make you a bad person as you probably have a lack of ilm and that you brought you to this thought.
We are all learning through the slalom of life.
Wasalaam.
Asalaamualaykum.
Dear brother in Islam - you must seriously contemplate that Allah SWT is the supreme controller of the entire universe.
So when you say that you feel that it is "cruel" you are implicating Allah SWT as being cruel which is entirely against the Sifath of Allah SWT & puts your imaan at risk - (In fact, scholars of the past would have immediately declared Kufr upon you for even saying that)
This problem of yours generally stems from a lack of understanding (or in some cases total lack of knowledge) about the 99 Names/Qualities of Allah SWT.
So as to relax your mind on thi
s issue, you must understand that Allah SWT is Al-Adl (The one who has the highest calibre of justice). You on the other hand have limited Adl. If you continue to read and ponder upon the 99 names of Allah SWT, you will come to realise your real position in front of Allah SWT.
You & I in reality with limited intelligence, justice, compassion ETC will never understand the system of our creator who possesses unlimited intelligence Etc.
Based on this you cannot question the system of Allah SWT.
I suggest that you take some time - sit with an Aalim and ask him to briefly explain the Sifath of Allah SWT.
Because you asked the question doesnt make you a bad person as you probably have a lack of ilm and that you brought you to this thought.
We are all learning through the slalom of life.
Wasalaam.
That doesn't answer anything frankly. Honestly, when I see all these non muslims who are suffering around the world and i have to think 'if they're not muslims, they get to suffer even worse in the next life, I am really not ok with that to be honest. What are you trying to say:
1. That I don't know if they'll die non muslim, so leave it up to god?
or
2. It doesn't matter if they were suffering or not, as non muslims they deserve to go to hell due to gods wisdom and i shouldn't question it?
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Supernova
03-08-2017, 05:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
That doesn't answer anything frankly. Honestly, when I see all these non muslims who are suffering around the world and i have to think 'if they're not muslims, they get to suffer even worse in the next life, I am really not ok with that to be honest.
Asalaamualaykum
Well in that case i will inform you that you putting your own imaan at possible risk.
Think about what you are saying - you are saying that have more Adl than Allah SWT who is Al-Adl.
That is a serious issue brother. Take my advice, speak to an Scholar about it.
they are suffering in this world as a punishment, but since kufr and shirk are unforgiveable sins, they continue to get punished in hereafter; it's their own faults as they have bee warned, if if they want to ignore these warnings, in a way they themselves are asking for the eternal punishment for by rejecting faith they are basically saying 'big deal we dont care if we go to hell'
lately, i've been struggling with the issues of non muslims going to hell. I mean, there are like millions of non-muslim suffering throughout the world (yazidis, christians, hindus, etc) alongside muslims as well. I mean with muslims, I guess it reassuring knowing they enter heaven but for non muslims, i struggle with it. I mean, i feel cruel for thinking despite suffering in this life, they suffer even worse in the next and like i'm disregarding my compassion for them just due to their beliefs and I am just like, oh, too bad, so sad,which I can't help but feel is cruel. what do you think?
..yeah i havent got time to question the unfortunate..
before i offer them anything.
although the charity collectors are mostly muslim.
...
i suppose if they were good then god would have fed and provided for them? no?
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
lately, i've been struggling with the issues of non muslims going to hell. I mean, there are like millions of non-muslim suffering throughout the world (yazidis, christians, hindus, etc) alongside muslims as well. I mean with muslims, I guess it reassuring knowing they enter heaven but for non muslims, i struggle with it. I mean, i feel cruel for thinking despite suffering in this life, they suffer even worse in the next and like i'm disregarding my compassion for them just due to their beliefs and I am just like, oh, too bad, so sad,which I can't help but feel is cruel. what do you think?
Brother, it's wonderful that you feel compassion towards other human beings and feel sympathy for their plight. Thank you for your question, and we hope that this as an issue is answered in a manner that satisfies your mind, heart, and soul if Allah wills:
First and foremost, please know that non-Muslims are also given reprieve from Hell-fire given these four conditions as explained in hadith (prophetic tradition) and they would given a test to determine if they are those who would be from those willing to submit themselves to Allah (God):
“Four types of people will be tested on the day of judgement: a deaf man who cannot hear anything, a mad man, an old aged man and a man who died during fatrah (a period of time when no messenger was sent to people). The deaf man will say: “Oh Allah, Islam came while I cannot hear anything!” The mad man will say: “Oh Allah, Islam came while the boys throw animals’ excrement on me!”. The old aged man will say: “Oh Allah, Islam came while I can understand nothing.” And the man who died during a fatrah will say: “Oh Allah, I witnessed no messenger from You.” Then Allah takes a promise from them to obey Him. Then He will command them to enter hell, and who enters it will find it peace and cool, and who disobeys will be dragged to hell.”
“and your Lord treats no one with injustice” (al-Kahf 18:49)
Allah says that Allah is Most Merciful as that's an attribute of Him, and therefore we already know that Allah does not have any person bear a burden that they're unable to bear. So, if anyone has a valid excuse, then Allah would know of it, and for sure Allah's Mercy will encompass that person so that person is judged to be have an excuse and will be given a test on Judgment Day to determine whether he/she would have been one who would submit his/her will to Allah (God).
Finally, in a larger hadith (prophetic tradition) of which I'm only quoting the relevant portion, we also learn the following:
“So, by Allah the One, a man amongst you may do good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly, a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise.”
So, what that again means is that there may appear to us a non-Muslim who is destined to be in Hell due to his/her outward deeds and expressions, but he/she may be one who is destined for Paradise, and that would not be in the realm of our knowledge because the divine decree can overtake that person any time before his/her death, even in the last moments before death. And it may be that there may appear to us a Muslim who is destined to be in Paradise due to his/her outward deeds and expressions, but he/she may be one who is destined for Hell, and that would not be in the realm of our knowledge because the divine decree can overtake that person any time before his/her death, even in the last moments before death. So, basically, a Muslim can lose his iman (faith) even in the last moments and a non-Muslim can gain iman (faith) even in the last moments; so, no Muslim should be arrogant enough to be confident that his/her fate is Paradise so as to then feel free to judge others as to who can enter Paradise and who will enter Hell. Instead, we should always remember that the gatekeeper to Paradise is Allah, not us as human beings with limited knowledge. So, simply in humility and submission to Allah in maintaining a balance between fear of the worst and hope for the best, we should constantly ask Allah as Muslims to grant us Paradise and keep us and those dear and near to us safe from Hell-Fire. Also, we should unceasingly ask guidance for ourselves and others (including non-Muslims) because guidance is the gateway to Paradise, and we should desire that others receive that same Mercy as we should like that for ourselves.
Take care. Thank you again for your question, brother, and we hope that moving forward you are given new insight into look at even non-Muslims as potential Paradise-dwellers.
Well, I was just worried about that there are those who do die non muslim even while suffering. Like for example, a christian friend of mine lost his mother in a car accident and she didn't seem like a bad person. I have a hard time judging that she'll be in hell.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Well, I was just worried about that there are those who do die non muslim even while suffering. Like for example, a christian friend of mine lost his mother in a car accident and she didn't seem like a bad person. I have a hard time judging that she'll be in hell.
Then, be at ease and relaxed, brother, for you're neither given the authority nor the means to judge any person's fate in the Hereafter, as this is a domain only of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. We do not know anyone's fate in the Hereafter, not even our own.
All we know is that her case, as will our case, rest with Allah, the moment we die.
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Know that Allah :swt: is Just so He :swt: won't do Injustice to anyone. He :swt: will oppress no one. Because Allah is Just, not an oppressor.
So be at ease with the fact that Allah is just, and will oppress none. If a kafir never heard of Islam or heard a message that is masked as Islam but not - Allah will know that.
Know that Allah :swt: is Just so He :swt: won't do Injustice to anyone. He :swt: will oppress no one. Because Allah is Just, not an oppressor.
So be at ease with the fact that Allah is just, and will oppress none. If a kafir never heard of Islam or heard a message that is masked as Islam but not - Allah will know that.
Allahu alam.
Yes, but of course there are those who have heard of islam and still suffer regardless, I just struggle to accept that they should suffer even worst in the afterlife
According to Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, the basic principle is that the issue of who will go to Paradise and who will go to Hell is the matter of ‘aqeedah based on what is said in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and there is no room for reasoning or ijtihaad in this matter.
You should note that all the kaafirs who hear the message of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and do not enter Islam will go to Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures” [al-Bayyinah 98:6]
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say that the people who lived during the fatrah (interval between two Prophets) will be tested on the Day of Resurrection.
This is the most correct view among the various opinions concerning the people who lived during the fatrah (interval between two Prophets) and others whom the call did not reach, and it is the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah and his student Ibn al-Qayyim, and a number of the earlier and later generations.
Those who die before hitting puberty are considered children and free from sin. Those we received the message of Islam and deny it will go to hell, those who did not receive the message will be tested at Resurrection time to obey or disobey. So no one can claim they were not given a fair chance and warning beforehand.
You just don't know what is in the heart of people, only Allah does. There will be people from all walks of life in Jannah and hellfire. If you have been guided to Islam, follow it and give dawah.
Remember that Allah will ALWAYS expose people to monotheism. At one point or another, a person will have to decide whether they believe in and worship one God and seek answers. We are born to search for truth; everyone does it and some more than others.
My entire family is non muslim, so I have had similar thoughts. You are definitely not alone :)
So am I just supposed to hope that they become muslim? I mean, what about those who do die non-muslim, do I just disregard their suffering? That is what I struggle with.
So am I just supposed to hope that they become muslim? I mean, what about those who do die non-muslim, do I just disregard their suffering? That is what I struggle with.
Read my post again, it answers your question.
You can hope for whatever you want.
People will get what they deserve according to what's in their heart. Allah will give everyone a fair chance to choose.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
So am I just supposed to hope that they become muslim? I mean, what about those who do die non-muslim, do I just disregard their suffering? That is what I struggle with.
Yes, God-willing hope that they become Muslim and consider every human being as a potential Paradise-dweller. Please understand that a person will have to receive the proper Message of Islam and then reject it before they're considered disbelievers in the Message. In this life, we cannot judge anyone's intentions or hearts or divine their futures to know who is ultimately what in the Hereafter (even ourselves). Finally, Allah gave an answer in this Hadith Qudsi (prophetic tradition with direct words from Allah):
“O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another.
O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you,
O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you.
O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you.
O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you.
O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good, praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that, blame no one but himself.”
Also, remember the Qur'an came as a glad tiding and warning both and all humanity is given the following ayat (verse) upon which to reflect:
“Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere”(2:155). And this is a Message for all humanity that whether we're disbeliever or believer we'all be tested with things which will require us to patiently persevere, and remember Allah says that Allah is with the patient (Qur'an 2:163), which means that this suffering may be a means through which Allah bestows on an unbeliever iman (faith) before his/her death. And with respect to suffering in life that you mentioned a disbeliever suffers, please know that we know from a hadith (prophetic tradition) that even Abu Lahab will suffer less than he would have otherwise because of his one good deed of freeing a slave at the birth of Prophet Muhammad :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him). So, even a disbeliever's suffering may be a cause of him suffering less in eternity just as his/her good deed would be a cause for him/her suffering less in eternity. Simply put, however, these things are not within the purview of our knowledge because as human beings we're not allowed to know of anyone's future in the Hereafter, including our own. So, we simply hope for the best for ourselves and others. Remember a hadith (prophetic tradition) says, “A worshipper does not attain the truth of faith until he loves for the people what he loves for himself of good.” We wish everyone good, and whether they're in the end able to attain that good is not in our hands, and Allah will act as Judge and determine how everyone acted or didn't act according to his/her capacity and what he/she earned in this life in that vein.
And please understand no one is telling you to disregard anyone's suffering in this life or the Hereafter. And you can, if you wish, achieve much good and positive deeds in this regard. Serve human beings in this world (in the best way possible within your capacity) as that is one way in which you can alleviate human suffering. And know service to human beings is considered service to Allah. And also supplicate for every non-Muslim you meet that he/she become your brother/sister in Paradise.
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
So am I just supposed to hope that they become muslim? I mean, what about those who do die non-muslim, do I just disregard their suffering? That is what I struggle with.
Brother my advice to you, start doing da'wa...but off course build some patience and knowledge about all kind of subjects if possible. Why do i say this?
I myself love to have discussions because i love to learn things. I have had alhamdulillah many discussions with people of all kind of religions from Muslims to atheists. I have found two kind of character traits coming back each time.
Honesty and dishonesty.
There are people who will have a discussion with you, when you give them logic, rationality and reason and they KNOW you are right..but they reject it out of pride and arrogance. These people ..sub'han'Allah..these people have become blind for the message and they are their own cause of misguidance. These type of people you could say will enter hell fire..if they off course die like that. I have come to know that these types of people CHOOSE themselves to go to hell fire and i feel no empathy towards them. I mean ..the message is clear as the heavens from the earth. However the dishonesty to not admit..what can you do to these type of people?
Then there is the other type. The honest type. These people are honest if you have a discussion with them. Within this group exists two sub-types if you ask me. The one who searches and in the end becomes Muslim. The other type is to preoccupied with dunya. But you have to have trust in Allah(swt) that He guides them to the right path. As many of these honest people when calamity hits them so hard that they finally realize this dunya is worthless and their head is turned to Islam. They also will accept without any pride or arrogance.
There is no Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists etc. All i have seen is honest people and dishonest people. The honest people for sure come to Islam and stick to Islam if they were Muslims already. The dishonest people will leave Islam or never become Muslims.
If a person dies as non-Muslim, my judgement is still absent as i don't know if that person maybe believed in 1 Creator despite not being Muslim. So the people who die as non-Muslim and also NOT believing in 1 Creator. These people are their own cause. Allah(swt) has showed them all His signs before giving them death.
"Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient," Qur'an 2:26
Read the bold part. The people who are not guided are the cause of it themselves.
If i would want to give you 1 million dollars but you refuse to take it..how can i forcefully give it to you? You do not want it, while the simple criteria is..coming to my house and asking for it...but you refuse to do that. So how can people feel sorry for a person that refuses to go with the criteria and get the 1 million dollars? Right?
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
Yes, God-willing hope that they become Muslim and consider every human being as a potential Paradise-dweller. Please understand that a person will have to receive the proper Message of Islam and then reject it before they're considered disbelievers in the Message. In this life, we cannot judge anyone's intentions or hearts or divine their futures to know who is ultimately what in the Hereafter (even ourselves). Finally, Allah gave an answer in this Hadith Qudsi (prophetic tradition with direct words from Allah):
“O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another.
O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you,
O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you.
O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you.
O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you.
O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good, praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that, blame no one but himself.”
Also, remember the Qur'an came as a glad tiding and warning both and all humanity is given the following ayat (verse) upon which to reflect:
“Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere”(2:155). And this is a Message for all humanity that whether we're disbeliever or believer we'all be tested with things which will require us to patiently persevere, and remember Allah says that Allah is with the patient (Qur'an 2:163), which means that this suffering may be a means through which Allah bestows on an unbeliever iman (faith) before his/her death. And with respect to suffering in life that you mentioned a disbeliever suffers, please know that we know from a hadith (prophetic tradition) that even Abu Jahl will suffer less than he would have otherwise because of his one good deed of freeing a slave at the birth of Prophet Muhammad :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him). So, even a disbeliever's suffering may be a cause of him suffering less in eternity just as his/her good deed would be a cause for him/her suffering less in eternity. Simply put, however, these things are not within the purview of our knowledge because as human beings we're not allowed to know of anyone's future in the Hereafter, including our own. So, we simply hope for the best for ourselves and others. Remember a hadith (prophetic tradition) says, “A worshipper does not attain the truth of faith until he loves for the people what he loves for himself of good.” We wish everyone good, and whether they're in the end able to attain that good is not in our hands, and Allah will act as Judge and determine how everyone acted or didn't act according to his/her capacity and what he/she earned in this life in that vein.
And please understand no one is telling you to disregard anyone's suffering in this life or the Hereafter. And you can, if you wish, achieve much good and positive deeds in this regard. Serve human beings in this world (in the best way possible within your capacity) as that is one way in which you can alleviate human suffering. And know service to human beings is considered service to Allah. And also supplicate for every non-Muslim you meet that he/she become your brother/sister in Paradise.
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
See about that, thing is, i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much, is still considered to have receive the message because they could have the means to learn about it. I.e, someone with google, or say poor non muslims living with muslims in neighbourhood. I have an issue as for example, the christians and yazidis persecuted by ISIS, of course there are those who have heard of islam because they have co-existed with muslims and some still retain their faith. I have an issue that they still suffer as well in the next life, that is my problem.
See about that, thing is, i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much, is still considered to have receive the message because they could have the means to learn about it. I.e, someone with google, or say poor non muslims living with muslims in neighbourhood. I have an issue as for example, the christians and yazidis persecuted by ISIS, of course there are those who have heard of islam because they have co-existed with muslims and some still retain their faith. I have an issue that they still suffer as well in the next life, that is my problem.
I have heard on one lecture that no human being goes to hell except that he admits himself that he deserves to go to hell.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
See about that, thing is, i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much, is still considered to have receive the message because they could have the means to learn about it. I.e, someone with google, or say poor non muslims living with muslims in neighbourhood. I have an issue as for example, the christians and yazidis persecuted by ISIS, of course there are those who have heard of islam because they have co-existed with muslims and some still retain their faith. I have an issue that they still suffer as well in the next life, that is my problem.
We cannot ascertain to what degree this opinion has merit because Allah judges according to His Judgment. And His Judgment includes a person's hidden, subconscious, and conscious intentions, a person's mental/intellectual capacity, a person's knowledge, a person's mind, a person's heart, and a person's soul. So, we do not know to what degree that Christian or Yazidi persecuted by Daesh has been able to learn or understand Islam. What we do know is that Allah will judge people in a manner that befits the situation and no soul will be oppressed in the Judgment because the Divine Judgment will be fair and equitable and in keeping with both mercy and compassion; all we can say is that Allah knows best their fate, and we trust that Allah will determine their fate justly and no one will be wronged even an atom (Qur'an 4:40).
The truth is we do not know their fates, just as we do not know our own. Allah is Just and Merciful, that much we should know and trust InshaAllah (God-willing). Remember Prophet Muhammad :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) is (and has been sent as) a "mercy to the worlds" (Qur'an 21:107).
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
We cannot ascertain to what degree this opinion has merit because Allah judges according to His Judgment. And His Judgment includes a person's hidden, subconscious, and conscious intentions, a person's mental/intellectual capacity, a person's knowledge, a person's mind, a person's heart, and a person's soul. So, we do not know to what degree that Christian or Yazidi persecuted by Daesh has been able to learn or understand Islam. What we do know is that Allah will judge people in a manner that befits the situation and no soul will be oppressed in the Judgment because the Divine Judgment will be fair and equitable and in keeping with both mercy and compassion; all we can say is that Allah knows best their fate, and we trust that Allah will determine their fate justly and no one will be wronged even an atom (Qur'an 4:40).
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
What opinion are you taking about that is uncertain?
You wrote, "i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much." In response, I clarified we cannot ascertain the (full) merit of this opinion because human beings judge according to what human beings are able to understand in academic terms and Allah judges according to His (Complete) Judgment. So, we ideally recognize that Allah's Judgment is not like human beings' and we also know that Allah's Judgment will be one that does no one an injustice even worth an atom's weight (Qur'an 4:40).
I have heard on one lecture that no human being goes to hell except that he admits himself that he deserves to go to hell.
..sounds like a world of politician's and lawyers.
willing to play around in other peoples lives.
a bit more for a bit less.. but what can you do?
god willing for every start there is a finish..
and building on a lie is always clearly distinguishable.
...its a pharoe cop.
And [also for] those who were settled in al-Madinah and [adopted] the faith before them. They love those who emigrated to them and find not any want in their breasts of what the emigrants were given but give [them] preference over themselves, even though they are in privation. And whoever is protected from the stinginess of his soul - it is those who will be the successful.
...its funny because every time i let them in all they do is degrade the people they are given rights over..
i cant really go on that way.
..it upset me how he raised himself at the expense of others.
trying to teach me arabic (very forcefully..i felt) all the while forgetting common manners to people around.
really mind boggling.
and then at one point he started helping himself to my things and saying its sadakah...
i might ask him to go try that across the road.
i might have to tell him of tomorrow.. and see how bad it really is.
...it makes very little sense to me.. or is it my ego writing?
you only know a person after spending time with them.. but lets face it.. im just here to work.
i just dont want anyone to mess it up!
who am i kidding? il let him off by tomorrow i recon..
So am I just supposed to hope that they become muslim? I mean, what about those who do die non-muslim, do I just disregard their suffering? That is what I struggle with.
Don't focus on what you can't do. This is not in your hands in any way shape or form. What you CAN do is give dawah, make dua for them and make sure this message gets to them, however, what they do with the information you give is strictly up to them. Also, remember that on the day of judgement, you won't care about what happened to them, you will only care about yourself.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
You wrote, "i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much." In response, I clarified we cannot ascertain the (full) merit of this opinion because human beings judge according to what human beings are able to understand in academic terms and Allah judges according to His (Complete) Judgment. So, we ideally recognize that Allah's Judgment is not like human beings' and we also know that Allah's Judgment will be one that does no one an injustice even worth an atom's weight (Qur'an 4:40).
Don't focus on what you can't do. This is not in your hands in any way shape or form. What you CAN do is give dawah, make dua for them and make sure this message gets to them, however, what they do with the information you give is strictly up to them. Also, remember that on the day of judgement, you won't care about what happened to them, you will only care about yourself.
And that's my issue. If they die non muslim, am I supposed to be like 'oh well, too bad, so sad."
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
And that's my issue. If they die non muslim, am I supposed to be like 'oh well, too bad, so sad."
So, this is a follow-up question I have: Do you trust Allah to not do an atom's weight of injustice as Allah says to any human being in the hereafter?
The reason I ask this follow-up question because your questions are based in flawed understanding: 1) No one knows whether a non-Muslim died a disbeliever or not. Only Allah knows. All Allah has to say is, "Be" and that person known to be a non-Muslim in the world known to us could have died in his last breath as a Muslim (even if without knowledge of any other human beings or jinn). 2) Non-Muslims who die, depending on whether they received a proper message of Islam, could be of those excused and thereby of those who will receive a test on Judgment Day to determine whether they would have chosen submission to Allah. 3) Non-Muslims whom Allah divinely judges categorically as disbelievers in the next life are those who actively (and persistently) chose disbelief and they say in the hereafter, "Now, if we could but once return, we would be believers" (Qur'an 26:20) However, the hereafter disbelievers' words are a lie because their active intention is disbelief regardless of however they may plead their case then because we know they would remain disbelievers if they were once again returned to earth (should they be given the chance). And we can surmise this as truth because their words do not align with the subconscious intention because a hadith (prophetic tradition) of which I'm only quoting the relevant portion says, “Verily, deeds are only with intentions. Verily, every person will have only what they intended." Disbelief in spiritual terms is considered both an intention and a deed. And the penalty for choosing disbelief in eternal intention and deed as to Allah known as also As-Samad, the Eternal, is only fitting to be given as eternal punishment. 4) In this life, we have bosses who fire workers for incompetence, and they are not judged as harsh or cruel even if the worker badly needed the job to earn a living wage to eat or even have his family be financially afloat. Because the worker did not do his/her job. And here, in this world, we as human beings have a job. Our job is to reconnect ourselves with the primordial purpose and promise of accepting Allah as our Lord as we once did when were only souls (in the Heaven). The evidence for this is the following in the Qur'an (7:172): "And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes! We testify,' lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: 'Verily, we have been unaware of this.'"
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
I was wondering, did you watch what he said?
Yes, I watched some of it; and I still have the same question of you as I did in post #34.
Additionally, I'd maintain that it is his specific understanding on the subject, not gospel. And as a non-scholar, I am neither in a position to confirm or deny as to the matter he's judged in the way of understanding he's judged.
And I still maintain what I'd earlier said to you: "We cannot ascertain to what degree this opinion has merit because Allah judges according to His Judgment. And His Judgment includes a person's hidden, subconscious, and conscious intentions, a person's mental/intellectual capacity, a person's knowledge, a person's mind, a person's heart, and a person's soul."
Speaking for myself, however, I still would not take this individual's specific understanding over that of Imam Ghazali's (may Allah bless him), a scholar whom I trust and whom I know had honed understanding of Islam in a manner and with breadth that this specific individual cannot be said to have done so.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
So, this is a follow-up question I have: Do you trust Allah to not do an atom's weight of injustice as Allah says to any human being in the hereafter?
The reason I ask this follow-up question because your questions are based in flawed understanding: 1) No one knows whether a non-Muslim died a disbeliever or not. Only Allah knows. All Allah has to say is, "Be" and that person known to be a non-Muslim in the world known to us could have died in his last breath as a Muslim (even if without knowledge of any other human beings or jinn). 2) Non-Muslims who die, depending on whether they received a proper message of Islam, could be of those excused and thereby of those who will receive a test on Judgment Day to determine whether they would have chosen submission to Allah. 3) Non-Muslims whom Allah divinely judges categorically as disbelievers in the next life are those who actively (and persistently) chose disbelief and they say in the hereafter, "Now, if we could but once return, we would be believers" (Qur'an 26:20) However, the hereafter disbelievers' words are a lie because their active intention is disbelief regardless of however they may plead their case then because we know they would remain disbelievers if they were once again returned to earth (should they be given the chance). And we can surmise this as truth because their words do not align with the subconscious intention because a hadith (prophetic tradition) of which I'm only quoting the relevant portion says, “Verily, deeds are only with intentions. Verily, every person will have only what they intended." Disbelief in spiritual terms is considered both an intention and a deed. And the penalty for choosing disbelief in eternal intention and deed as to Allah known as also As-Samad, the Eternal, is only fitting to be given as eternal punishment. 4) In this life, we have bosses who fire workers for incompetence, and they are not judged as harsh or cruel even if the worker badly needed the job to earn a living wage to eat or even have his family be financially afloat. Because the worker did not do his/her job. And here, in this world, we as human beings have a job. Our job is to reconnect ourselves with the primordial purpose and promise of accepting Allah as our Lord as we once did when were only souls (in the Heaven). The evidence for this is the following in the Qur'an (7:172): "And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes! We testify,' lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: 'Verily, we have been unaware of this.'"
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
That last thing with workers is different. Listen, Hell isn't just punishment, it's torture. And for all of eternity.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
That last thing with workers is different. Listen, Hell isn't just punishment, it's torture. And for all of eternity.
First and foremost, you and I both have to agree that we're both discussing things of which we or any scholar no matter the caliber can have any definitive knowledge as all of this is in the realm of the Unseen.
After we've agreed on this point, you and I also have to agree that we can only speculate on the nature of Hell or even eternity.
What is eternity like to experience? The truth is I don't know; and no human being can answer this question.
Please realize just as we're discussing this issue, righteous predecessors, specifically scholars, had also discussed such issues and disagreed over specific matters. For example, as to the nature of hell being imperishable or not, Ibn Al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy upon him) reported on his authority that the righteous predecessors had two opinions concerning the issue of hell being imperishable and he mentioned some relevant citations reported on the authority of the Companions (may Allah have mercy upon them). While there exists scholarly consensus that Hell is everlasting, the truth is that nobody but Allah knows either the complete truth of Hell or eternity; we can only conjecture on these topics because these topics are not within the purview of our Seen realm.
So, inevitably, we come to the question of whether you trust Allah. I do; and I hope InshaAllah (God-willing) you do too. Allah's Judgment is Perfect. Even forgetting others, if I am myself judged as a disbeliever in Allah's eyes, I do not imagine I'll have been wronged an atom in the divine judgment because I know Allah's Judgment is Perfect. Allah's Judgment is not flawed and imperfect and incomplete like ours; we are talking in academic terms about these topics when the truth is that we're only given to understanding these topics based on our limited human understanding, which is subject to the Seen realm and thereby parochial and thus incomplete. All we can truly understand about these topics is that there is a Hell and there is a Paradise. Paradise is for good people and Hell is for bad people. How people are judged are upon their intentions and their actions. So, all we can learn from all of this is that as human beings we should strive to always have good intentions and good deeds to our account; and if we're unable to have good deeds to our account, we should at least always strive for good intentions.
My personal opinion is that many people whom people in the Seen realm regard as unbelievers and we know today as non-Muslims will actually be divinely judged believers in the hereafter because they will either have attained to faith before their death or pass the test which will lead them to have been so judged. As far as the people whom Allah passes the divine judgment of being definitively disbelievers in the Hereafter, my personal opinion is that they will have willfully earned whatever penalty accrued to them; and therefore, it is not fitting for us to judge on the punishment they receive because Allah will not wrong anyone even worth an atom.
And that's my issue. If they die non muslim, am I supposed to be like 'oh well, too bad, so sad."
Who said that is how you have to be? Not once have I felt that way about my family even though most of them will never consider Islam. I think about my mother and I feel very sad, but never "oh well, too bad so sad". I feel guilt that I don't work hard enough to show her Islam and also that I'm not a fabulous and thoughtful daughter with an awesome character that would make her want look into Islam.
So what are my options? Mope around and feel guilt or do something about it? You can only do what is directly in your control, nothing else. This is part of having faith and trust in Allah, so the problem here would be that you don't have faith in Allah's mercy...think about it.
Who said that is how you have to be? Not once have I felt that way about my family even though most of them will never consider Islam. I think about my mother and I feel very sad, but never "oh well, too bad so sad". I feel guilt that I don't work hard enough to show her Islam and also that I'm not a fabulous and thoughtful daughter with an awesome character that would make her want look into Islam.
So what are my options? Mope around and feel guilt or do something about it? You can only do what is directly in your control, nothing else. This is part of having faith and trust in Allah, so the problem here would be that you don't have faith in Allah's mercy...think about it.
Here's the thing, it's explicitly says 'all non muslims go to hell' it's been like that for centuries
Here's the thing, it's explicitly says 'all non muslims go to hell' it's been like that for centuries
Have you read every available translation with tafsir? Do you think that somebody like Mother Teresa would go to hell? Do you believe Allah is whimsical and doesn't look beyond the Muslim declaration of faith?
Those are questions for you to reflect upon, I do not wish to debate these things. Allah has 99 beautiful names, study them properly and then re-think your stance. He doesn't just punish, he also forgives, understands, listens, loves, created justice and so much more.
You have to work on your belief and understanding of your faith. Stop worrying about everyone else until you have your own issues figured out. That's my advice.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Here's the thing, it's explicitly says 'all non muslims go to hell' it's been like that for centuries
There are treatises to which you should pay attention and read when you have the time InshaAllah (God-willing) as I think they'll be helpful to you understanding the matter more comprehensively and not in the one-dimensional manner you seem to now:
By the way, I don't think it's ever been true or understood that all non-Muslims go to Hell; on the contrary, I think it's always been understood that there are exceptions as informed by the Qur'an and the Sunnah (prophetic footsteps) and ahadith (prophetic traditions) such as examples of the deaf person, the person who was born in the time wherein there were no messengers, the time wherein the person was too old or senile to appreciate the message, the person who was mentally incompetent or insane. Of course, scholars have understood differently as to whom we believe will be recipient of Allah's Mercy as to salvation from the non-Muslims in these categories. The time wherein no messengers were sent are the category to which we're referring to when we wonder or speculate on what the fate of non-Muslims who hear a distorted message of Islam today will be judged. No human being, scholars included, can even say from a certainty as to anyone's (including modern-day non-Muslims') fate.
Have you read every available translation with tafsir? Do you think that somebody like Mother Teresa would go to hell? Do you believe Allah is whimsical and doesn't look beyond the Muslim declaration of faith?
Those are questions for you to reflect upon, I do not wish to debate these things. Allah has 99 beautiful names, study them properly and then re-think your stance. He doesn't just punish, he also forgives, understands, listens, loves, created justice and so much more.
You have to work on your belief and understanding of your faith. Stop worrying about everyone else until you have your own issues figured out. That's my advice.
Islamically, from everything I have read, yes mother teresa will go to hell due to being christians. Also, there is a hadith that says those who never did any good(i.e muslims), will end up going to heaven due to declaration of faith after hell
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
There are treatises to which you should pay attention and read when you have the time InshaAllah (God-willing) as I think they'll be helpful to you understanding the matter more comprehensively and not in the one-dimensional manner you seem to now:
By the way, I don't think it's ever been true or understood that all non-Muslims go to Hell; on the contrary, I think it's always been understood that there are exceptions as informed by the Qur'an and the Sunnah (prophetic footsteps) and ahadith (prophetic traditions) such as examples of the deaf person, the person who was born in the time wherein there were no messengers, the time wherein the person was too old or senile to appreciate the message, the person who was mentally incompetent or insane. Of course, scholars have understood differently as to whom we believe will be recipient of Allah's Mercy as to salvation from the non-Muslims in these categories. The time wherein no messengers were sent are the category to which we're referring to when we wonder or speculate on what the fate of non-Muslims who hear a distorted message of Islam today will be judged. No human being, scholars included, can even say from a certainty as to anyone's (including modern-day non-Muslims') fate.
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Ok, looked through the second one, I'm confused, was the author saying hell isn't eternal?
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Islamically, from everything I have read, yes mother teresa will go to hell due to being christians. Also, there is a hadith that says those who never did any good(i.e muslims), will end up going to heaven due to declaration of faith after hell
Brother, you're incorrect. You are not allowed as a Muslim to say whether Mother Teresa will go to Hell or Heaven because you have no knowledge of her fate. Her case is with Allah. Read the fatwa (ruling): "Saying that specific people are going to Paradise or Hell." IslamQA fatwa is from a conservative literalist Islamic site, and even that fatwa site holds that you're as a Muslim not allowed to say anything specific about a specific person's fate.
Your second statement is correct. Muslims who held on to their shahada (testimony of faith) and died on the shahada, even if they are sinners, will be eventually freed from Hell; but the truth is that no one knows the length or breadth of their sentence while they do reside in Hell. As to why a sinful Muslim will eventually be freed from the Fire is because shahada is counted as both a good intention and a good deed, and if the Muslim is sincere in either, then this one item is enough to weigh heavily against the balance of a lifetime of bad deeds to incur them enough Mercy for a lesser sentence in an abode of eternal punishment.
Remember Allah is holding us to account for our actions and intentions. And intentions specifically are the arbiter between punishment and mercy, sentencing and freedom, and hell and paradise. Allah knows what our subconscious and conscious intentions are, and Allah judges based on them our temporal and perpetual intentions, and then adjudicates our fate accordingly.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Ok, looked through the second one, I'm confused, was the author saying hell isn't eternal?
Brother, I'm not sure I understand your question. The second treatise is a dissertation, and it's discussing different scholars' views on salvation of non-Muslims.
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
Brother, I'm not sure I understand your question. The second treatise is a dissertation, and it's discussing different scholars' views on salvation of non-Muslims.
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Yes, I read it, some of them argued it appears that hell is not eternal, so I am confused, what is your thought?
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Yes, I read it, some of them argued it appears that hell is not eternal, so I am confused, what is your thought?
I believe that some people will go to Hell just as some people will go to Paradise. As to whether each abode is eternal, I believe each abode is.
I do not, however, believe that specific punishment therein of human beings is eternal because of the hadith (prophetic tradition) to the effect of something in which Allah has emphatically declared, "My mercy overcomes my wrath." And Allah knows best.
The exact words from the hadith (prophetic tradition) are the following: “When Allah decreed the creation, He wrote in his book with Him on His Throne: My mercy prevails over My wrath” (Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 3022, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2751).
Having said this, I do emphasize I do not know more than that nor would I wish to speculate further on this subject matter as the fundamental truth is that I do not know best and Allah knows best and also I know nothing and Allah knows everything.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
I believe that some people will go to Hell just as some people will go to Paradise. As to whether each abode is eternal, I believe each abode is.
I do not, however, believe that specific punishment therein of human beings is eternal because of the hadith (prophetic tradition) to the effect of something in which Allah has emphatically declared, "My mercy overcomes my wrath." And Allah knows best.
The exact words from the hadith (prophetic tradition) are the following: “When Allah decreed the creation, He wrote in his book with Him on His Throne: My mercy prevails over My wrath” (Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 3022, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2751).
Having said this, I do emphasize I do not know more than that nor would I wish to speculate further on this subject matter as the fundamental truth is that I do not know best and Allah knows best and also I know nothing and Allah knows everything.
:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Specific punishments? What do you mean?
Second, when I said mother teresa, I meant in general, according to islamic thought, she will enter hell as she was non muslim, i have heard judge by the apparent, and most says judge she will go to hell.
Third, thing is, if a non muslim has the opportunity to learn and don't do it, they will be held accountable as is the case with many of them today as you know due to communication.
I am not taking about those who never heard of it, I mean of those who have heard some of it but don't believe
:bism: (In the Name fo God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Specific punishments? What do you mean?
I mean specific punishments that Allah has decreed for them in the Fire. I believe these specific decreed punishments will end because of the hadith (prophetic tradition) I gave unequivocally indicative of Allah's Mercy encompassing everything. That said, this is a personal opinion.
Second, when I said mother teresa, I meant in general, according to islamic thought, she will enter hell as she was non muslim, i have heard judge by the apparent, and most says judge she will go to hell.
Okay. Now, I understand you were saying the statement in general terms. Still, that is an inappropriate statement to make for two reasons: 1) For example, you're allowed to say that a person who died associating partners with Allah like some modern Christians do can be a reason for them to enter the Fire. Yet you cannot point at specific non-Muslims or Muslims as being in Hell or Paradise unless you've been specifically informed. For example, we know that Pharaoh is destined for the Fire. We also know that Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) is destined for Paradise. However, for all others whose fate we have not been divinely or prophetically informed, we cannot. 2) None can surmise any human beings' intentions and heart and last moments because Allah's power can reach anyone before death to make them Muslim. Therefore, it is not from adab (Islamic etiquette) to judge any human being, especially those who are dead and cannot defend themselves. That is why it is simply best to case their case rests with Allah.
Third, thing is, if a non muslim has the opportunity to learn and don't do it, they will be held accountable as is the case with many of them today as you know due to communication.
Perhaps. However, the One judging as to what degree a person should have taken initiative in learning and to degree what the opportunity open to them was will be judged by Allah, not us. And scholars can also only speculate on this subject as they themselves have no knowledge in this subject as it falls outside of the Seen realm and is part of the Unseen realm and Unseen knowledge of which we've not been informed. All we know from the Qur'an is that Allah will do no one an injustice worth even an atom's weight.
I am not taking about those who never heard of it, I mean of those who have heard some of it but don't believe
:bism: (In the Name fo God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
I mean specific punishments that Allah has decreed for them in the Fire. I believe these specific decreed punishments will end because of the hadith (prophetic tradition) I gave unequivocally indicative of Allah's Mercy encompassing everything. That said, this is a personal opinion.
Okay. Now, I understand you were saying the statement in general terms. Still, that is an inappropriate statement to make for two reasons: 1) For example, you're allowed to say that a person who died associating partners with Allah like some modern Christians do can be a reason for them to enter the Fire. Yet you cannot point at specific non-Muslims or Muslims as being in Hell or Paradise unless you've been specifically informed. For example, we know that Pharaoh is destined for the Fire. We also know that Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) is destined for Paradise. However, for all others whose fate we have not been divinely or prophetically informed, we cannot. 2) None can surmise any human beings' intentions and heart and last moments because Allah's power can reach anyone before death to make them Muslim. Therefore, it is not from adab (Islamic etiquette) to judge any human being, especially those who are dead and cannot defend themselves. That is why it is simply best to case their case rests with Allah.
Perhaps. However, the One judging as to what degree a person should have taken initiative in learning and to degree what the opportunity open to them was will be judged by Allah, not us. And scholars can also only speculate on this subject as they themselves have no knowledge in this subject as it falls outside of the Seen realm and is part of the Unseen realm and Unseen knowledge of which we've not been informed. All we know from the Qur'an is that Allah will do no one an injustice worth even an atom's weight.
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl: (Peace be upon you)
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Earlier, on you mentioned islamqa, what are your views on it? As well, you said you are not salafi, what are you then?
I do not have a high opinion of IslamQA. I have already mentioned the reasons for this in this thread and in the PM you've sent me as well.
I'm Sunni and consider myself part of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. All schools of thought, Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi, and Hanabali are valid. I just picked Hanafi for myself when I was deciding which Islamic school of thought to follow at the beginning stages of Islam because it's the methodological school of thought to which I had most ease of access in terms of both real life scholars and online fatwa (ruling) sites (and I'd been informed that ease of access should determine what school of thought a person chooses to follow so as to know what ruling applies in Islamic jurisprudence for everyday matters). And I am a strong proponent and adherent of tasawwuf (Islamic spirituality).
In the very beginning, when I was very new to Islam, I was unknowingly following Salafism, but I checked and corrected myself when I recognized that as I did not accept the literalist conservative fundamentalist view on specific subjects within Islam and many times what I perceived as an intolerant and simplistic understanding of Islam. Please note this is a personal experience and this can in no way said to be reflective of others' understandings or experience.
Islamically, from everything I have read, yes mother teresa will go to hell due to being christians. Also, there is a hadith that says those who never did any good(i.e muslims), will end up going to heaven due to declaration of faith after hell
Where have you read this? So what you are saying is that we can just sit and do nothing and we'll go to heaven, but other from other faiths who spend their entire lives doing good will go to hellfire? :hmm: Don't you know the hadeeth about the prostitute who gave a dog water and went to Jannah? There are many instances like these. It's a shame that this is how little many people think of Allah(swt), the most forgiving, the most compassionate and the only one who can see everyone's hearts and intentions. I think you should further your studies and try to understand Islam for what it really is.
Sometime back I wrote a post that ran along similar vein as this OP (if I am not mistaken it was in "Burn in Hell" thread).. I tried to find it by using the search function but very thing else came up except "Burn" and Hell". So I cannot locate it. (Maybe I am using the search function all wrong):p . . But I remember it was one about a good friend of mine in primary school who was a non muslim. He had such a good heart and we were best friends. That was then, today I also have another best friend who is a Christian. His firm stand on his belief is astounding and made me feel humbled on several occasions :embarrass.
Yes, it does make me question and yes, I have questioned for many years and that post was about then..
Now, as I reach half century, I realise other things.... Allah, (although He does not have to Do so) has said that nothing and no one will be wronged on the Day of Judgement, not even by the smallest particle. It will all Be supremely Fair, Just and whatever else .. so why do I have to invest in crazy energy trying to think about how Allah would dispense His Affairs come that Day!? I am limited in my ability. He Is All Knowing! So, I will leave it to Allah as He has Said that no soul shall be wronged. That is the Truest promise.
{"Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islaam) from the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the Mushrikoon (polytheists) will be in the fire of Jahannam for all eternity. They are the worst of created beings."}
[Soorah al-Bayyinah, 98:6]
{"And whoever seeks a Deen other than Islaam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be from the losers."} [Soorah Aal-e-`Imraan, 3:85]
{"And those who expect not for a Meeting with Us (i.e. those who deny the Day of Resurrection and the life of the Hereafter), say: "Why are not the angels sent down to us, or why do we not see our Lord?" Indeed they thought too highly of themselves, and were scornful with great pride.
On the Day they will see the angels, no glad tidings will there be for the Mujrimoon (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) that day. And they (angels) will say: "All kinds of glad tidings are forbidden for you," [None will be allowed to enter Paradise except the one who said: Laa ilaaha Illallaah, "(there is no God but Allaah) and acted practically on its legal orders and obligations].
And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust.
The dwellers of Paradise (i.e. those who deserved it through their Faith and righteousness) will, on that Day, have the best abode, and have the fairest of places for repose."} [Soorah al-Furqaan, 25:21-24]
{"Do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My slaves [i.e., the angels, Allaah's Messengers, `Eesaa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), etc.] as Auliyaa (lords, gods, protectors, etc.) besides Me? Verily, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as their entertainment.
Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds?
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds!
"They are those who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall not give them any weight.
"That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery."} [Soorah al-Kahf, 18:102-106]
{"Has there come to you the narration of the overwhelming (i.e. the Day of Resurrection);
Some faces, that Day, will be humiliated (in the Hell-fire, i.e. the faces of all disbelievers, Jews and Christians, etc.).
Labouring (hard in the worldly life by worshipping others besides Allah), weary (in the Hereafter with humility and disgrace) .
They will enter in the hot blazing Fire."} [Soorah al-Ghaashiyah, 88:1-4]
Commenting on these Aayaat in his Tafseer, `Allaamah ibn Katheer رحمة الله عليه writes:
The Hadeeth master, Abu Bakr al-Barqaani said: Ibraaheem ibn Muhammad al-Muzakki narrated to us: Muhammad ibn Is-haaq as-Sarraaj narrated to us: Haaroon ibn `Abdillaah narrated to us: Sayyaar narrated to us: Ja`far narrated to us, saying: I heard Abu `Imraan al-Jawni saying: `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه passed by the monastery of a monk, so he called out to him saying, "O Raahib (monk)!" So the monk came out. When `Umar saw him, he wept. He was asked: "O Commander of the Believers, what of this has caused you to weep?" He said: "I remembered the Word of Allaah `Azza wa Jall in His Kitaab:
عاملة ناصبة تصلى ناراً حامية
"Labouring (hard in the worldly life by worshipping others besides Allah), weary (in the Hereafter with humility and disgrace)."
That is what caused me to weep." [Tafseer ibn Katheer.]
So that monk, despite having devoted his entire life to worship, staying away from sin, not harming anybody, it would not benefit him because he was not worshipping Allaah; he was worshipping false gods. Thus, when Hadhrat `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه saw him, he knew that if this monk dies upon this state, he will be in Jahannam, despite him tiring himself out in worship in this way. It is the Law of Allaah that those who know about Islaam - or have the capability of learning about Islaam, as is the case nowadays - yet choose to follow a religion other than it, their end result will be Jahannam, even if they did good all their lives.
It is the belief of some people that, in these times, a "skewed, distorted image of Islaam" has been presented by the media and so people are not to blame for not accepting it. This was the belief propagated recently by Ahmad Tayyib, of Egypt. However, the reality is that whoever has internet at his disposal is capable of learning about Islaam, and thus no "distorted image" may be used as an excuse, because Allaah Ta`aalaa had given them the ability and the means to learn about Islaam; they chose not to. The fault lies with them.
May Allaah Ta`aalaa grant us the understanding, Aameen.
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
{"Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islaam) from the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the Mushrikoon (polytheists) will be in the fire of Jahannam for all eternity. They are the worst of created beings."}
[Soorah al-Bayyinah, 98:6]
{"And whoever seeks a Deen other than Islaam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be from the losers."} [Soorah Aal-e-`Imraan, 3:85]
{"And those who expect not for a Meeting with Us (i.e. those who deny the Day of Resurrection and the life of the Hereafter), say: "Why are not the angels sent down to us, or why do we not see our Lord?" Indeed they thought too highly of themselves, and were scornful with great pride.
On the Day they will see the angels, no glad tidings will there be for the Mujrimoon (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) that day. And they (angels) will say: "All kinds of glad tidings are forbidden for you," [None will be allowed to enter Paradise except the one who said: Laa ilaaha Illallaah, "(there is no God but Allaah) and acted practically on its legal orders and obligations].
And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust.
The dwellers of Paradise (i.e. those who deserved it through their Faith and righteousness) will, on that Day, have the best abode, and have the fairest of places for repose."} [Soorah al-Furqaan, 25:21-24]
{"Do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My slaves [i.e., the angels, Allaah's Messengers, `Eesaa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), etc.] as Auliyaa (lords, gods, protectors, etc.) besides Me? Verily, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as their entertainment.
Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds?
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds!
"They are those who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall not give them any weight.
"That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery."} [Soorah al-Kahf, 18:102-106]
{"Has there come to you the narration of the overwhelming (i.e. the Day of Resurrection);
Some faces, that Day, will be humiliated (in the Hell-fire, i.e. the faces of all disbelievers, Jews and Christians, etc.).
Labouring (hard in the worldly life by worshipping others besides Allah), weary (in the Hereafter with humility and disgrace) .
They will enter in the hot blazing Fire."} [Soorah al-Ghaashiyah, 88:1-4]
Commenting on these Aayaat in his Tafseer, `Allaamah ibn Katheer رحمة الله عليه writes:
The Hadeeth master, Abu Bakr al-Barqaani said: Ibraaheem ibn Muhammad al-Muzakki narrated to us: Muhammad ibn Is-haaq as-Sarraaj narrated to us: Haaroon ibn `Abdillaah narrated to us: Sayyaar narrated to us: Ja`far narrated to us, saying: I heard Abu `Imraan al-Jawni saying: `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه passed by the monastery of a monk, so he called out to him saying, "O Raahib (monk)!" So the monk came out. When `Umar saw him, he wept. He was asked: "O Commander of the Believers, what of this has caused you to weep?" He said: "I remembered the Word of Allaah `Azza wa Jall in His Kitaab:
عاملة ناصبة تصلى ناراً حامية
"Labouring (hard in the worldly life by worshipping others besides Allah), weary (in the Hereafter with humility and disgrace)."
That is what caused me to weep." [Tafseer ibn Katheer.]
So that monk, despite having devoted his entire life to worship, staying away from sin, not harming anybody, it would not benefit him because he was not worshipping Allaah; he was worshipping false gods. Thus, when Hadhrat `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه saw him, he knew that if this monk dies upon this state, he will be in Jahannam, despite him tiring himself out in worship in this way. It is the Law of Allaah that those who know about Islaam - or have the capability of learning about Islaam, as is the case nowadays - yet choose to follow a religion other than it, their end result will be Jahannam, even if they did good all their lives.
It is the belief of some people that, in these times, a "skewed, distorted image of Islaam" has been presented by the media and so people are not to blame for not accepting it. This was the belief propagated recently by Ahmad Tayyib, of Egypt. However, the reality is that whoever has internet at his disposal is capable of learning about Islaam, and thus no "distorted image" may be used as an excuse, because Allaah Ta`aalaa had given them the ability and the means to learn about Islaam; they chose not to. The fault lies with them.
May Allaah Ta`aalaa grant us the understanding, Aameen.
والسلام
Huzaifah, what are your thoughts on this:
There are treatises to which you should pay attention and read when you have the time InshaAllah (God-willing) as I think they'll be helpful to you understanding the matter more comprehensively and not in the one-dimensional manner you seem to now:
By the way, I don't think it's ever been true or understood that all non-Muslims go to Hell; on the contrary, I think it's always been understood that there are exceptions as informed by the Qur'an and the Sunnah (prophetic footsteps) and ahadith (prophetic traditions) such as examples of the deaf person, the person who was born in the time wherein there were no messengers, the time wherein the person was too old or senile to appreciate the message, the person who was mentally incompetent or insane. Of course, scholars have understood differently as to whom we believe will be recipient of Allah's Mercy as to salvation from the non-Muslims in these categories. The time wherein no messengers were sent are the category to which we're referring to when we wonder or speculate on what the fate of non-Muslims who hear a distorted message of Islam today will be judged. No human being, scholars included, can even say from a certainty as to anyone's (including modern-day non-Muslims') fate.
In truth, the majority of us do not deserve salvation, we all depend on the mercy of Allah. As narrated by Imam Al Bukhari, when God completed creation, i.e. set it forth in its patterns, He decreed that “My mercy has overcome my wrath”.
In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God,
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
{"Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islaam) from the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the Mushrikoon (polytheists) will be in the fire of Jahannam for all eternity. They are the worst of created beings."}
[Soorah al-Bayyinah, 98:6]
{"And whoever seeks a Deen other than Islaam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be from the losers."} [Soorah Aal-e-`Imraan, 3:85]
{"And those who expect not for a Meeting with Us (i.e. those who deny the Day of Resurrection and the life of the Hereafter), say: "Why are not the angels sent down to us, or why do we not see our Lord?" Indeed they thought too highly of themselves, and were scornful with great pride.
On the Day they will see the angels, no glad tidings will there be for the Mujrimoon (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) that day. And they (angels) will say: "All kinds of glad tidings are forbidden for you," [None will be allowed to enter Paradise except the one who said: Laa ilaaha Illallaah, "(there is no God but Allaah) and acted practically on its legal orders and obligations].
And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust.
The dwellers of Paradise (i.e. those who deserved it through their Faith and righteousness) will, on that Day, have the best abode, and have the fairest of places for repose."} [Soorah al-Furqaan, 25:21-24]
{"Do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My slaves [i.e., the angels, Allaah's Messengers, `Eesaa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), etc.] as Auliyaa (lords, gods, protectors, etc.) besides Me? Verily, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as their entertainment.
Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds?
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds!
"They are those who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall not give them any weight.
"That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery."} [Soorah al-Kahf, 18:102-106]
{"Has there come to you the narration of the overwhelming (i.e. the Day of Resurrection);
Some faces, that Day, will be humiliated (in the Hell-fire, i.e. the faces of all disbelievers, Jews and Christians, etc.).
Labouring (hard in the worldly life by worshipping others besides Allah), weary (in the Hereafter with humility and disgrace) .
They will enter in the hot blazing Fire."} [Soorah al-Ghaashiyah, 88:1-4]
Commenting on these Aayaat in his Tafseer, `Allaamah ibn Katheer رحمة الله عليه writes:
The Hadeeth master, Abu Bakr al-Barqaani said: Ibraaheem ibn Muhammad al-Muzakki narrated to us: Muhammad ibn Is-haaq as-Sarraaj narrated to us: Haaroon ibn `Abdillaah narrated to us: Sayyaar narrated to us: Ja`far narrated to us, saying: I heard Abu `Imraan al-Jawni saying: `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه passed by the monastery of a monk, so he called out to him saying, "O Raahib (monk)!" So the monk came out. When `Umar saw him, he wept. He was asked: "O Commander of the Believers, what of this has caused you to weep?" He said: "I remembered the Word of Allaah `Azza wa Jall in His Kitaab:
عاملة ناصبة تصلى ناراً حامية
"Labouring (hard in the worldly life by worshipping others besides Allah), weary (in the Hereafter with humility and disgrace)."
That is what caused me to weep." [Tafseer ibn Katheer.]
So that monk, despite having devoted his entire life to worship, staying away from sin, not harming anybody, it would not benefit him because he was not worshipping Allaah; he was worshipping false gods. Thus, when Hadhrat `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه saw him, he knew that if this monk dies upon this state, he will be in Jahannam, despite him tiring himself out in worship in this way. It is the Law of Allaah that those who know about Islaam - or have the capability of learning about Islaam, as is the case nowadays - yet choose to follow a religion other than it, their end result will be Jahannam, even if they did good all their lives.
It is the belief of some people that, in these times, a "skewed, distorted image of Islaam" has been presented by the media and so people are not to blame for not accepting it. This was the belief propagated recently by Ahmad Tayyib, of Egypt. However, the reality is that whoever has internet at his disposal is capable of learning about Islaam, and thus no "distorted image" may be used as an excuse, because Allaah Ta`aalaa had given them the ability and the means to learn about Islaam; they chose not to. The fault lies with them.
May Allaah Ta`aalaa grant us the understanding, Aameen.
والسلام
What about those who are being persecuted by extremist(isis, boko haram) for example. Would they fall into having a disosrted image of islam and not be accountable for not accepting it?
No person who has the ability and means to learn about Islaam can use the excuse of "a distorted image of Islaam" being presented to them. They are supposed to make the effort to seek the truth.
Simple question:
Why did 1.5 million people accept Islaam immediately after 9/11?
People possessing internet have no excuse for not searching for the truth. The ability to research anything is right there at your fingertips. What stops a person from learning about Islaam? Obstinacy, or laziness, or simply not caring about anything. They had the means but chose not to make use of it. They can't blame anyone else.
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
No person who has the ability and means to learn about Islaam can use the excuse of "a distorted image of Islaam" being presented to them. They are supposed to make the effort to seek the truth.
Simple question:
Why did 1.5 million people accept Islaam immediately after 9/11?
People possessing internet have no excuse for not searching for the truth. The ability to research anything is right there at your fingertips. What stops a person from learning about Islaam? Obstinacy, or laziness, or simply not caring about anything. They had the means but chose not to make use of it. They can't blame anyone else.
Was-Salaam.
Well I mean persecuted people due to the likes of boko-haram/isis, who are also in refugee camps and without internet I mean. Do they fall under the category?
Well I mean persecuted people due to the likes of boko-haram/isis, who are also in refugee camps and without internet I mean. Do they fall under the category?
if they been reached by Islamic dawah then they go to hell too if they die as non-muslim :Emoji29:
Everyone is born a Muslim. It is the parents that take them out of that state.
Allahu alam.
:wasalam:
The hadith which mention "Every child born in fitrah, then his parent that makes him become Jew, Christian, or Majusi", actually is explanation of prohibition to kill non-Muslim children, even in war.
The cause/background of that hadith was an event when some Muslims killed mushrikin children in a war. When Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasallam questioning why they killed the mushrikin children, they said they killed those children because those children were mushrikin. Then Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasallam issued prohibition to kill non-Muslim children in war, and said that hadith as explanation why is prohibited to kill children from enemy side.
Just a clarification regarding the last sentence in the quote:
According to the link in the quote,
Ibn Hajr, al-‘Ayni and al-Qastalani, ... all recognized that this lightening of punishment was an exception made for Abu Lahab, the way it was made for Abu Talib.
That means that as a general rule, the disbelievers good deeds will not be a cause for lessening their suffering in the Hereafter. One of the reasons why their good deeds will not be compensated for in the Hereafter is because they do not perform their deeds for Allah. Allah :swt: only rewards those good deeds which are performed solely for His sake, and this applies to Muslims as well. If a Muslim performs a good deed for anything other than seeking the pleasure of Allah, he will be asked to go and fetch his reward from whoever he did his good deed for.
The scholars say:
There are two essential conditions that must both be present in every performed good act or deed, so as to ensure their acceptance by Allah. First, a Muslim must seek Allah alone in the good deeds that he performs. Second, this good deed must be in total accordance with what Allah has legislated in His Book and what His Messenger has commanded in his Sunnah.
The first condition: the act of worship should be devoted to Allah Alone.
Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allah, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him).” [al-Bayyinah 98:5]
The meaning of worshipping Allah alone is that the person should intend in all his words and deeds, both inward and outward, to seek the Face of Allah (i.e., His pleasure).
Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And who has (in mind) no favour from anyone to be paid back,
Except to seek the Countenance of his Lord, the Most High.” [al-Layl 92:19]
“(Saying): “We feed you seeking Allah’s Countenance only. We wish for no reward, nor thanks from you.” [al-Insan 76:9]
“Whosoever desires (by his deeds) the reward of the Hereafter, We give him increase in his reward, and whosoever desires the reward of this world (by his deeds), We give him thereof (what is decreed for him), and he has no portion in the Hereafter.” [al-Shoora 42:20]
“Whosoever desires the life of the world and its glitter, to them We shall pay in full (the wages of) their deeds therein, and they will have no diminution therein.
They are those for whom there is nothing in the Hereafter but Fire, and vain are the deeds they did therein. And of no effect is that which they used to do.” [Hood 11:15-16]
It was narrated that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say:
‘The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or to marry a woman, his emigration was for what he emigrated for.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, Bad’ al-Wahy, 1).
It was narrated by Muslim from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah, may He be blessed and exalted, says: ‘I am so self-sufficient that I am in no need of having an associate. Thus he who does an action for someone else’s sake as well as Mine will have that action renounced by Me to him whom he associated with Me.’” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaiq, 5300)
The second condition is that the action should be in accordance with the only way which Allah has prescribed for worship, which is by following the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the laws that he has brought.
It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever does any action that is not in accordance with this matter of ours (i.e., Islam), will have it rejected.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Aqdiyyah, 3243).
Ibn Rajab (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “This hadeeth (narration) forms one of the most important principles of Islam. It is like a scale for weighing up deeds according to their outward appearance, just as the hadeeth ‘The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions’ is the means of weighing up the inner nature of deeds. Just as every action which is not intended for the sake of Allah brings no reward to the one who does it, so too every deed which is not in accordance with the command of Allah and His Messenger will also be rejected and thrown back at the one who does it. Everyone who innovates in Islam something for which Allah and His Messenger have not granted permission, that thing has nothing to do with Islam.
(Jami’ al-‘Uloom wa’l-Hikam, part 1, p.176)
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) enjoined following his Sunnah (ways) and teachings, and made them binding. He (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “You have to follow my Sunnah (way) and the way of my rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa’ al-rashidoon); bite onto it with your eyeteeth (i.e., cling firmly to it).” And he warned against bid’ah (innovation), as he said: “Beware of newly-invented matters, for every newly-invented matter is a going astray.” (narrated by al-Tirmidhi, al-‘Ilm, 2600; classed as saheeh/authentic by al-Albani in Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 2157)
Ibn al-Qayyim said: “Allah has made devotion of worship to Him alone and following the Sunnah the means of deeds being accepted; if these conditions are not met, then deeds are unacceptable.”
(al-Rooh, 1/135)
lately, i've been struggling with the issues of non muslims going to hell. I mean, there are like millions of non-muslim suffering throughout the world (yazidis, christians, hindus, etc) alongside muslims as well. I mean with muslims, I guess it reassuring knowing they enter heaven but for non muslims, i struggle with it. I mean, i feel cruel for thinking despite suffering in this life, they suffer even worse in the next and like i'm disregarding my compassion for them just due to their beliefs and I am just like, oh, too bad, so sad,which I can't help but feel is cruel. what do you think?
If you and I refuse to buy a ticket to go past the barriers on a train station do you think we'll be allowed to go through? What if we turn up to the station everyday and clean it, greet commuters with kindness and a smile as they arrive and guide them to the right platform for their journey do you think we'll be allowed through?
What if this ticket had the label 'Islam' and the train station was the straight path and the destination was jannah?
If you and I refuse to buy a ticket to go past the barriers on a train station do you think we'll be allowed to go through? What if we turn up to the station everyday and clean it, greet commuters with kindness and a smile as they arrive and guide them to the right platform for their journey do you think we'll be allowed through?
What if this ticket had the label 'Islam' and the train station was the straight path and the destination was jannah?
The problem is choice.
Yeah but the thing is, I feel cruel when I hear about all these like non muslims suffering in the world and because they aren't muslim and die like that, they should go to hell and i'm just like 'oh, they didn't die muslim, tough luck/too bad', like I'm indifferent towards their suffering
Though I heard in south sudan, many of them aren't muslims because they were oppressed in the name of Islam and think it's like some kind of political ideology, would they be excused in this case as mentioned before
Firstly, Allah will provide every human being with an opportunity to accept Islam during their lifetime. This could be through countless different ways such da'wah, leaflets or just by observing the good behaviour of a Muslim. Those that accept it will earn Allah's pleasure and those that reject it will be destined to hell fire.
Secondly, Allah says is the Quran that Allah had sent prophets and messengers to every nation to guide them to Islam. The last of these prophets was Prophet Muhammad who is the Messenger for all of mankind until the hour. Therefore, nobody will have any excuses on the day of judgement before Allah that they were not given guidance by Him. This is why one of the three questions that we will all be asked in the grave will include "who was your prophet".
Thirdly, the scholars have discussed that if there is truly someone who died before knowing Islam then he or she does not automatically get thrown in hell. Allah will deal with such people in a way that befits their situation.
You can rest assured that there are people that know about Islam but they chose to ignore it thinking their religion is better, or they don't bother to learn more about it or they simply reject it.
Firstly, Allah will provide every human being with an opportunity to accept Islam during their lifetime. This could be through countless different ways such da'wah, leaflets or just by observing the good behaviour of a Muslim. Those that accept it will earn Allah's pleasure and those that reject it will be destined to hell fire.
Secondly, Allah says is the Quran that Allah had sent prophets and messengers to every nation to guide them to Islam. The last of these prophets was Prophet Muhammad who is the Messenger for all of mankind until the hour. Therefore, nobody will have any excuses on the day of judgement before Allah that they were not given guidance by Him. This is why one of the three questions that we will all be asked in the grave will include "who was your prophet".
Thirdly, the scholars have discussed that if there is truly someone who died before knowing Islam then he or she does not automatically get thrown in hell. Allah will deal with such people in a way that befits their situation.
You can rest assured that there are people that know about Islam but they chose to ignore it thinking their religion is better, or they don't bother to learn more about it or they simply reject it.
What about what I said with the people in South Sudan? What do they fall in?
I don't know. Make dua that Allah guides them to the straight path. I don't know anything about the people of South Sudan and have no idea about what's happening with the people there.
I don't know. Make dua that Allah guides them to the straight path. I don't know anything about the people of South Sudan and have no idea about what's happening with the people there.
Well, i mean i heard many of them have a negative view of islam due to being oppressed in the name of it and they think it's like a political ideology or something, so wouldn't they be excused then?
I don't know. Make dua that Allah guides them to the straight path. I don't know anything about the people of South Sudan and have no idea about what's happening with the people there.
I don't know. Make dua that Allah guides them to the straight path. I don't know anything about the people of South Sudan and have no idea about what's happening with the people there.
well thats the joke innit..
i replied.. im sunni but i have some mates who are shia.
"/
..he says.. things are very different over there (lybia)..
may allah swt protect us from the evil of our own selves and the evil of the shaitan and his followers.
Well, i mean i heard many of them have a negative view of islam due to being oppressed in the name of it and they think it's like a political ideology or something, so wouldn't they be excused then?
You know, Allah has already said that no a soul will be wronged by even an atom's worth. So why find things in the world that would create such doubts as to how Allah will deal with the matter? He has asked from over 1400 years ago for anyone to challenge the Quran and to date, nothing in the Quran has been contradicted.
If you (or anybody for that reason) cannot find answers, it is due to our limitations, not Allah's. If we create doubt because we do not know the answer(s), what it goes to show is that we have not fully submitted to His AlMighty Will. We are not His true slave.
Maalikiyawmiddeen - Sovereign of the day of recompense
Then again, Allah also said that hidayah is His to give. It has nothing to do with us. Will we start questioning that too? Why does He have to choose? So if He chooses when to give why do we need to spread the word? and whatever other doubts you can create in your mind.
I can give you more reasons to ask questions, similar questions and at the end of the day, I realise something, all these subtly complex questions comes about from an intelligent mind. This intelligent mind is 'used' by the accursed to create something within ourselves almost as though to plant a seed of doubt will erode the chain of a slave to Allah. Like saying, I will only fully submit if this can be explained... almost a surge of arrogance
The thing is, do you submit or do you not? Allah already said again that no soul will bear another soul's sins. So what that means is that we all should really concentrate on our own deeds and not the fate of others as it is theirs to bear. We can only pray for them, dakwah to them because apart from that, the hidayah belongs to Allah, and there is no compulsion in religion. So really our hands are very tied (except for what we decide to do for ourselves) and we have to have faith in Allah being the Most Forgiving (except in the matters of syirk!) and that He is Most Fair.
I think if kept simple, always going back to the drawing board to keep from going off trajectory and being ensnared by the accursed, we must realise what is our duty. Judging the fate of others based on what you think they have been given fairly or not, is definitely not one of them.
You know, Allah has already said that no a soul will be wronged by even an atom's worth. So why find things in the world that would create such doubts as to how Allah will deal with the matter? He has asked from over 1400 years ago for anyone to challenge the Quran and to date, nothing in the Quran has been contradicted.
If you (or anybody for that reason) cannot find answers, it is due to our limitations, not Allah's. If we create doubt because we do not know the answer(s), what it goes to show is that we have not fully submitted to His AlMighty Will. We are not His true slave.
Maalikiyawmiddeen - Sovereign of the day of recompense
Then again, Allah also said that hidayah is His to give. It has nothing to do with us. Will we start questioning that too? Why does He have to choose? So if He chooses when to give why do we need to spread the word? and whatever other doubts you can create in your mind.
I can give you more reasons to ask questions, similar questions and at the end of the day, I realise something, all these subtly complex questions comes about from an intelligent mind. This intelligent mind is 'used' by the accursed to create something within ourselves almost as though to plant a seed of doubt will erode the chain of a slave to Allah. Like saying, I will only fully submit if this can be explained... almost a surge of arrogance
The thing is, do you submit or do you not? Allah already said again that no soul will bear another soul's sins. So what that means is that we all should really concentrate on our own deeds and not the fate of others as it is theirs to bear. We can only pray for them, dakwah to them because apart from that, the hidayah belongs to Allah, and there is no compulsion in religion. So really our hands are very tied (except for what we decide to do for ourselves) and we have to have faith in Allah being the Most Forgiving (except in the matters of syirk!) and that He is Most Fair.
I think if kept simple, always going back to the drawing board to keep from going off trajectory and being ensnared by the accursed, we must realise what is our duty. Judging the fate of others based on what you think they have been given fairly or not, is definitely not one of them.
:peace:
It's clearly been stated that non muslims are hellhound though
Yes. That is the test. When there is a test, it will be to separate those who pass from those who fail. Who pass and who fail will be based on the decisions they make.
Plus, it is not our law.. it is Divine decree... so we understand not as much, but do we submit?
lately, i've been struggling with the issues of non muslims going to hell. I mean, there are like millions of non-muslim suffering throughout the world (yazidis, christians, hindus, etc) alongside muslims as well. I mean with muslims, I guess it reassuring knowing they enter heaven but for non muslims, i struggle with it. I mean, i feel cruel for thinking despite suffering in this life, they suffer even worse in the next and like i'm disregarding my compassion for them just due to their beliefs and I am just like, oh, too bad, so sad,which I can't help but feel is cruel. what do you think?
You should just believe a) that Allah is the most just, b) as Musa Alayhi Salam said to pharaoh about his forefathers (chapter 20, verse 52), "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord neither errs nor forgets."
So basically you don't know their faith when they're dying. Only Allah does. If they are kafir, then yes they will go to Hell. People have been given intellect and if they don't use it to get guidance and cling to their wrong beliefs despite all the signs being shown to them, then they deserve whatever punishment Allah chooses to give them. (But once again, only Allah knows their inner faith.) Your concern shouldn't be with that. What you should be concerned about is yourself, your faith and actions , and how you can give dawah to those accessible to you to save them from hell.
5.82. You will most certainly find that, of the people (of unbelief), the most violent in enmity toward the believers (the Muslims) are the Jews and those who associate partners with God. And you will most certainly find that the nearest of them in affection to the believers (the Muslims) are those who say: "We are Christians. " This is because there are among them (the Christians) hermits (who devote themselves to worshipping God, especially at night) and monks (who struggle with their carnal selves, ever fearful of God's punishment), and because they are not arrogant.
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
No person who has the ability and means to learn about Islaam can use the excuse of "a distorted image of Islaam" being presented to them. They are supposed to make the effort to seek the truth.
Simple question:
Why did 1.5 million people accept Islaam immediately after 9/11?
People possessing internet have no excuse for not searching for the truth. The ability to research anything is right there at your fingertips. What stops a person from learning about Islaam? Obstinacy, or laziness, or simply not caring about anything. They had the means but chose not to make use of it. They can't blame anyone else.
Was-Salaam.
That they believe they already know what Islam is. What reason would they have to take time out of their busy lives to learn about Islam, when they fully accept and believe they know what Islam is all about.
I agree that people should not be ignorant, I agree they should search (assuming they are linked with the correct resources) but the everyday person is just not going to do that.
lately, i've been struggling with the issues of non muslims going to hell. I mean, there are like millions of non-muslim suffering throughout the world (yazidis, christians, hindus, etc) alongside muslims as well. I mean with muslims, I guess it reassuring knowing they enter heaven but for non muslims, i struggle with it. I mean, i feel cruel for thinking despite suffering in this life, they suffer even worse in the next and like i'm disregarding my compassion for them just due to their beliefs and I am just like, oh, too bad, so sad,which I can't help but feel is cruel. what do you think?
Initiate dawa, first, to your friends and do dua for their hidaya.
Well, there is this agnostic associate of mine, who like me, is overwhelmed by all the suffering in the world and he told he wants to believe in an afterlife so that all people, even if they are non muslim can go to heaven so there is no more suffering for them.. Thoughts on his predicament? Should I tell him only muslims go to heaven?
lately, i've been struggling with the issues of non muslims going to hell. I mean, there are like millions of non-muslim suffering throughout the world (yazidis, christians, hindus, etc) alongside muslims as well. I mean with muslims, I guess it reassuring knowing they enter heaven but for non muslims, i struggle with it. I mean, i feel cruel for thinking despite suffering in this life, they suffer even worse in the next and like i'm disregarding my compassion for them just due to their beliefs and I am just like, oh, too bad, so sad,which I can't help but feel is cruel. what do you think?
My questions will lead you to understand why your question is based on emotion and not theo-logic! in sha Allah. And the appeal to emotion, is always weak!
Well, there is this agnostic associate of mine, who like me, is overwhelmed by all the suffering in the world and he told he wants to believe in an afterlife so that all people, even if they are non muslim can go to heaven so there is no more suffering for them.. Thoughts on his predicament? Should I tell him only muslims go to heaven?
give him dawah with hikma and ask him to think of his own life first , instead of thinking of the whole world.
That they believe they already know what Islam is. What reason would they have to take time out of their busy lives to learn about Islam, when they fully accept and believe they know what Islam is all about. I agree that people should not be ignorant, I agree they should search (assuming they are linked with the correct resources) but the everyday person is just not going to do that.
in this age most of the people know what Islam is, nevertheless they run away from the truth
Well I mean persecuted people due to the likes of boko-haram/isis, who are also in refugee camps and without internet I mean. Do they fall under the category?
even if the dawah hasn't reached to them, why Allah swt has given them this brain, they will be questioned
:wasalam:The hadith which mention "Every child born in fitrah, then his parent that makes him become Jew, Christian, or Majusi", actually is explanation of prohibition to kill non-Muslim children, even in war. The cause/background of that hadith was an event when some Muslims killed mushrikin children in a war. When Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasallam questioning why they killed the mushrikin children, they said they killed those children because those children were mushrikin. Then Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasallam issued prohibition to kill non-Muslim children in war, and said that hadith as explanation why is prohibited to kill children from enemy side.
Yeah but the thing is, I feel cruel when I hear about all these like non muslims suffering in the world and because they aren't muslim and die like that, they should go to hell and i'm just like 'oh, they didn't die muslim, tough luck/too bad', like I'm indifferent towards their sufferingThough I heard in south sudan, many of them aren't muslims because they were oppressed in the name of Islam and think it's like some kind of political ideology, would they be excused in this case as mentioned before
oppressors will be punished regardless of their religion. Everyone will get the justice on the judgement day..... Non Muslims who are suffering in this world will undergo light punishment in comparison with those non Muslims who are oppressors and enjoying their luxurious life will have to face severe punishment. But one punishment is equal to all non Muslims i.e. Not accepting the msg of Islam.
oppressors will be punished regardless of their religion. Everyone will get the justice on the judgement day..... Non Muslims who are suffering in this world will undergo light punishment in comparison with those non Muslims who are oppressors and enjoying their luxurious life will have to face severe punishment. But one punishment is equal to all non Muslims i.e. Not accepting the msg of Islam.
What evidence do you have of this? Also, would you really say hell is light punishment? Hell is Hell, don't downplay it.
Anyone who heard about Islam but disbelieved after the message came to him shall be thrown to hell.
We have to understand that nobody will stay in hell forever except the worst of people.
And Allah is the most just!
You keep saying the worst of people. but the thing is, there are many non muslims who die and have done a lot of good(i.e mother teresa for example, how are they the worst of people? And there are those who die suffering as well, how are they the worst?
Still, does it really matter? Hell is hell. They are still being tortured forever, it doesn't make a difference? Would you even want to go to the lowest hell? No.
Still, does it really matter? Hell is hell. They are still being tortured forever, it doesn't make a difference? Would you even want to go to the lowest hell? No.
what do you want ? Should there not be difference between a believer and a non believer..? You mean non believer should also be placed in paradise if he'd suffered in this world..? Should there not be any punishment for kufr..?
You keep saying the worst of people. but the thing is, there are many non muslims who die and have done a lot of good(i.e mother teresa for example, how are they the worst of people? And there are those who die suffering as well, how are they the worst?
there are different levels for believers and non believers in heaven and hell respectively
Still, does it really matter? Hell is hell. They are still being tortured forever, it doesn't make a difference? Would you even want to go to the lowest hell? No.
Allah is more compassionate, just, merciful and forgiving than you are, we have only to look at his 99 names. The challenge is for us to strive to be the same. Allah has chosen you to be a wonderful Muslim, so this is your struggle in life.
The same Allah has chosen me to be a Christian, and this is my struggle in life. I am a Catholic, we are probably one of the more dogmatic religions of the world, and there was a time, when Catholics thought that even Christians of other denominations, would go to hell. A few hundred years ago, and not far from where I live, Christians were killing each other, for being in the wrong denomination. This does not go well with the command to love and pray for our enemies.
The problem is not that God was unjust, the problem is that we can become unjust to people who are different to us.
You keep saying the worst of people. but the thing is, there are many non muslims who die and have done a lot of good(i.e mother teresa for example, how are they the worst of people? And there are those who die suffering as well, how are they the worst?
But those who disbelieved - their deeds are like a mirage in a lowland which a thirsty one thinks is water until, when he comes to it, he finds it is nothing but finds Allah before Him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allah is swift in account. An-Nur 39
TWDT, I posted this earlier and am still awaiting your reply:
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
My questions will lead you to understand why your question is based on emotion and not theo-logic! in sha Allah. And the appeal to emotion, is always weak!
I disagree with you here. Allah :swt: has given you the opportunity to interact with Muslims and learn about the truth of Islam for several years and you have chosen to stay on Christianity yourself. One cannot blame Allah for not actively choosing to follow the truth after becoming aware of it.
I disagree with you here. Allah :swt: has given you the opportunity to interact with Muslims and learn about the truth of Islam for several years and you have chosen to stay on Christianity yourself.
I have a great respect for my Muslim brothers and sisters on this forum, I sense you have a deep and profound faith in Allah. However, I too have experienced a number of profound events in my life, when faith through Christianity has meant the difference between death and life.
One cannot blame Allah for not actively choosing to follow the truth after becoming aware of it.
It seems beyond our understanding, as to why the same Allah would allow us to understand him, through diverse faiths. My hope in being on this forum, has always been to see if we could foster greater interfaith friendships, despite our differences. I believe the greater enemy of our faiths is not each other, but rather, temptation, apathy and secularism.
In the spirit of searching for a greater meaning of 'One God'
My hope in being on this forum, has always been to see if we could foster greater interfaith friendships, despite our differences. I believe the greater enemy of our faiths is not each other, but rather, temptation, apathy and secularism.
May I refer to these as the unholy trinity?
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
In the spirit of searching for a greater meaning of 'One God'
Eric
Ameen.
Brother, with regard to choice - I believe God gave us the choice to be Muslim, Jew, Christian, Buddhist etc or to have no belief - that's what free will is, what we do with it is up to us - so you "choosing to remain a Christian", in my opinion, is a far more accurate statement than "The same Allah has chosen me to be Christian" if you follow my train of thought,
It seems beyond our understanding, as to why the same Allah would allow us to understand him, through diverse faiths. My hope in being on this forum, has always been to see if we could foster greater interfaith friendships, despite our differences. I believe the greater enemy of our faiths is not each other, but rather, temptation, apathy and secularism.
In the spirit of searching for a greater meaning of 'One God'
Eric
Greetings Eric,
If I am not mistaken, you already believe that there is none worthy of worship except Allah, the One and Only God. That means you don't believe in the divinity of 'Isa :as:, right?
Do you believe in the prophethood of Muhammad :saws:?
Ha, Meem.
The revelation of the Book is from Allah , the Exalted in Might, the Knowing. The forgiver of sin, acceptor of repentance, severe in punishment, owner of abundance. There is no deity except Him; to Him is the destination. [40:1-3]
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. [4:171]
And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son."
You have done an atrocious thing. The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.
And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.
There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant.
He has enumerated them and counted them a [full] counting. And all of them are coming to Him on the Day of Resurrection alone. [19:88-95]
And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do. O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.
By which Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path. They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent. [5:14-17]
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded. [5:72-75]
We, i.e., some people from Basra gathered and went to Anas bin Malik, and we went in company with Thabit Al-Bunnani so that he might ask him about the Hadith of Intercession on our behalf. Behold, Anas was in his palace, and our arrival coincided with his Duha prayer. We asked permission to enter and he admitted us while he was sitting on his bed. We said to Thabit, "Do not ask him about anything else first but the Hadith of Intercession." He said, "O Abu Hamza! There are your brethren from Basra coming to ask you about the Hadith of Intercession." Anas then said, "Muhammad :saws: talked to us saying, 'On the Day of Resurrection the people will surge with each other like waves, and then they will come to Adam and say, 'Please intercede for us with your Lord.' He will say, 'I am not fit for that but you'd better go to Abraham as he is the Khalil of the Beneficent.' They will go to Abraham and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Moses as he is the one to whom Allah spoke directly.' So they will go to Moses and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Jesus as he is a soul created by Allah and His Word.' (Be: And it was) they will go to Jesus and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Muhammad.' They would come to me and I would say, 'I am for that.' Then I will ask for my Lord's permission, and it will be given, and then He will inspire me to praise Him with such praises as I do not know now. So I will praise Him with those praises and will fall down, prostrate before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for your will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' And then it will be said, 'Go and take out of Hell (Fire) all those who have faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley grain.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down (prostrate) before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' It will be said, 'Go and take out of it all those who have faith in their hearts equal to the weight of a small ant or a mustard seed.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down in prostration before Him. It will be said, 'O, Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers!' Then He will say, 'Go and take out (all those) in whose hearts there is faith even to the lightest, lightest mustard seed. (Take them) out of the Fire.' I will go and do so."'
When we left Anas, I said to some of my companions, "Let's pass by Al-Hasan who is hiding himself in the house of Abi Khalifa and request him to tell us what Anas bin Malik has told us." So we went to him and we greeted him and he admitted us. We said to him, "O Abu Sa`id! We came to you from your brother Anas Bin Malik and he related to us a Hadith about the intercession the like of which I have never heard." He said, "What is that?" Then we told him of the Hadith and said, "He stopped at this point (of the Hadith)." He said, "What then?" We said, "He did not add anything to that." He said, Anas related the Hadith to me twenty years ago when he was a young fellow. I don't know whether he forgot or if he did not like to let you depend on what he might have said." We said, "O Abu Sa`id ! Let us know that." He smiled and said, "Man was created hasty. I did not mention that, but that I wanted to inform you of it. Anas told me the same as he told you and said that the Prophet added, 'I then return for a fourth time and praise Him similarly and prostrate before Him. It will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request): and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted .' I will say, 'O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshiped except Allah.' Then Allah will say, 'By my Power, and my Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of Hell (Fire) whoever said: 'None has the right to be worshipped except Allah.' '' [Bukhari: Book 98, Hadith 7603]
Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the Ayats of Revelation,- of a Qur'an that makes things clear. Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to Allah's will) in Islam. [15:1-2]
Greetings and peace be with you Scimitar my friend;
May I refer to these as the unholy trinity?
I shall ask my baker and mechanic friend, one of them puts oil in his doughnuts, the other one puts jam in his engines.
Brother, with regard to choice - I believe God gave us the choice to be Muslim, Jew, Christian, Buddhist etc or to have no belief - that's what free will is, what we do with it is up to us - so you "choosing to remain a Christian", in my opinion, is a far more accurate statement than "The same Allah has chosen me to be Christian" if you follow my train of thought,
From my perception, Allah has chosen you to be a wonderful Muslim, so having chosen you to be a Muslim, I cannot see why he would then want you to become a Christian afterwards. By the same token, the same God has made the Christian message the more powerful one to me.
We will never understand God in this life, and I have often said that scripture seems to become more powerful when we use it to try and change ourselves, rather than when we use it to try and change others. When I see Muslims on this forum struggling with their faith, I feel I can sometimes help them in an Islamic way. I would not try and pass on a Christian message to them.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
I have always been made to feel welcome here over the years, and I thank you all for your kindness and for the patience you have shown me. There are also times when I feel that because I have not become a Muslim, that this creates a tension. If this is the case, then maybe I should retire from this forum, because I do not want to be the cause of any problems or division.
May Allah bless you all, and those you love and care for,
There are also times when I feel that because I have not become a Muslim, that this creates a tension. If this is the case, then maybe I should retire from this forum, because I do not want to be the cause of any problems or division.
Not at all, I'm not sure why my post gives that impression. You're most welcome here. I was simply trying to understand what exactly is holding you back from believing in the prophethood of Muhammad :saws:, and that of 'Isa :as:. Our job is simply to deliver the message. It is your choice whether to accept Islam or not. Most of the time, it seems very difficult to change the path we have always been following.
Nevertheless, you are always welcome on board and we sincerely hope that one day you will become a true Muslim :ia:
we sincerely hope that one day you will become a true Muslim :ia:
I understand the sincerity behind your hope, but the mystery is still why would the same God allow so many faiths?
When I was searching for a faith about twenty years ago, my mum went into a coma, she was rushed to hospital, and the doctors said she had days to live. Her breathing was a horrible gurgling sound, they call this the death rattle. My mum had a faith, so we thought we should call a priest, and as the priest prayed, my mum's breathing relaxed. About ten minutes after the priest left, my mum recovered and lived another eleven years.
A number of other life changing events happened afterwards to do with faith. I can only say, that for me this was a clear calling to the Christian faith.
I have also heard Muslims on this forum, talking about similar miracles that happened in their lives, God works in mysterious ways.
Greetings and peace be with you Scimitar my friend;
I shall ask my baker and mechanic friend, one of them puts oil in his doughnuts, the other one puts jam in his engines.
Pwahahahaaaa :D goodun Eric wahahaaa. You owe me a new shirt, got coffee on mine now :D
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
From my perception, Allah has chosen you to be a wonderful Muslim, so having chosen you to be a Muslim, I cannot see why he would then want you to become a Christian afterwards. By the same token, the same God has made the Christian message the more powerful one to me.
We will never understand God in this life, and I have often said that scripture seems to become more powerful when we use it to try and change ourselves, rather than when we use it to try and change others. When I see Muslims on this forum struggling with their faith, I feel I can sometimes help them in an Islamic way. I would not try and pass on a Christian message to them.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
Eric
Amen to the prayer,
I was born a Muslim, and I apostated, then returned to Islam. When I tell my story, I sometimes mention how Allah chose me to come to belief, and other times - how I graduated towards belief.
What is the truth?
Allahu Alam.
I can honestly say, I was being tested with BIG QUESTIONS, like "why am I here? what is the point to it all? xyz" but I didn't give up. I challenged the faiths. Islam was out of the question for me because I'd already left it. And though I was being invited by Allah back to islam, i was too ignorant to see it for what it was, and so, I studied the other faith groups, as many as i could find. Judaism, the various Christianities, Buddhism, Bahai'sm, Confucianism, The Tao, Tengriism, and eastern animism, the full works - none of it was making sense, the closest I got to getting any answers was in Judaism. But I quickly discovered the Jews are as divided as secularism is today and further discovered, it was a dead end because I was not from the twelve tribes so i coudn't be a Jew - I was loving Judaism up til this point but then asked "Is God racist? is he selective of which peoples get the invite to truth? and if so, how is this a just God?"
So I went to my local library, and spoke to a Rabbi who is elderly and he told me some home truths. He said, He believes that God chose Islam as the promise HE gave to the descendants of Abraham - through his first seed, Ishmael (pbut). And this is how the world will come to question faith, due to the polemic debates and discussions arising from the discousrse of intellectuals from the islamic world with people of other or no faiths... and he was right. The interest in Islam today is at an all time high - while the world moves towards its curtain call.
So - with much deliberation, I picked up arberry's copy of the Qur'an, and I went from there.
This was the first time I had picked up a Qur'an to actually understand what it had taught - before this, I could simply read and write but not understand what i was reciting.
That was the invitation.
I chose to be a Muslim, due to being convinced that Islam is the correct faith. Not because I was born into it. The idea is, we choose. Free will.
Every hadith has "asbabul wurud", or cause that made that hadith spoken. The asbabul wurud behind that hadith was a case after battle between Muslims and mushrikeen that won by Muslims. However, some Muslims did not stop to kill the enemy, even they killed children from mushrikeen tribe. Then Miqdad ibn Aswad (ra) reported it to Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasalam. When Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasalam asked why they killed those children, someone said that's because those children were mushrikeen. Then Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasalam replied with ..... (that hadith).
This asbabul wurud featured in the book that written by Ibnu Hamzah Al-Husaini Al-Hanafi ad-Damsyiqi. A muhadith and Muslim historian.
Every hadith has "asbabul wurud", or cause that made that hadith spoken. The asbabul wurud behind that hadith was a case after battle between Muslims and mushrikeen that won by Muslims. However, some Muslims did not stop to kill the enemy, even they killed children from mushrikeen tribe. Then Miqdad ibn Aswad (ra) reported it to Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasalam. When Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasalam asked why they killed those children, someone said that's because those children were mushrikeen. Then Rasulullah Shallallahu Alayhi Wasalam replied with ..... (that hadith).This asbabul wurud featured in the book that written by Ibnu Hamzah Al-Husaini Al-Hanafi ad-Damsyiqi. A muhadith and Muslim historian.
Pwahahahaaaa :D goodun Eric wahahaaa. You owe me a new shirt, got coffee on mine now :D
Don't worry, my mechanic friend will put your shirt through the car wash, and my baker will mix it with dough and stick it in the oven, it will be as good as a crusty head gasket.
Allah is more compassionate, just, merciful and forgiving than you are, we have only to look at his 99 names. The challenge is for us to strive to be the same. Allah has chosen you to be a wonderful Muslim, so this is your struggle in life.
The same Allah has chosen me to be a Christian, and this is my struggle in life. I am a Catholic, we are probably one of the more dogmatic religions of the world, and there was a time, when Catholics thought that even Christians of other denominations, would go to hell. A few hundred years ago, and not far from where I live, Christians were killing each other, for being in the wrong denomination. This does not go well with the command to love and pray for our enemies.
The problem is not that God was unjust, the problem is that we can become unjust to people who are different to us.
In the spirit of praying to 'One God'
Eric
I know this is off topic but, eric you must become a muslim, no mater, the Christian beleif has been distorted so god brought islam after to guide beleivers. Our religions arent very different. If you are a believer and have now heard the message, follow the path. This is now the true religion of god, and the correct one to be. God didn't choose you to be Christian, with your free will you have, and with that very same free will you can choose the correct path. Put your trust in god and he will guide you, to the straight path, and the path to paradise inshallah.
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