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Serinity
03-19-2017, 01:01 PM
:salam:

I wanted to make this thread, as a thread where any specific questions could be answered.

Anyone can ask. But this thread is specifically for the grammar. (I am a beginner)

ين (Ya and Nuun)

But how do you distinguish that from Dhal (ذ يذ) On PC right now it is easy, but on paper, the letters are more fluid. Is the nuun more "rounded" under it?

http://www.equranschool.com/online-noorani-qaida-for-kids/02.htm

PS. Can someone give me examples of ى (Is it ya? no because a ya would have 2 dots under it. So what is it? Kaaf? But Kaaf is more "Z" shaped)

PS. How to make it easier to write arabic on PC?
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
03-19-2017, 02:47 PM
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Well, there are a few ways you would know:

1) When you have a ي and then a ذ, making يذ, it's never on its own like this: there's no such word. It will always have other letters attached. For example: يَذْكُرُ "Yadhkuru". There's a ك and ر after it. Now, let's write that same word but replace the ذ with a ن:

يَنْكُرُ

"Yankuru".

Look closely at the two words and you'll see the difference.

A letter that comes after a ر, a ز, a د and a ذ cannot attach to any of them. Those four letters can have a letter before them, connecting onto them, but the letter that comes after them will be separate from them. With a ن, on the other hand, any latter can join onto it before it or after it, as you can see in the example above.

So, that's one way you would know.

2) Practice makes perfect. Once you've read Arabic for a while, without Tashkeel (i.e. Fat-hah, Kasrah, Dhammah), no confusion about the letters remain. You can easily tell what letter it is. A lot of reading helps with that.

3) Context. If ever you look at a word and are confused about which letter is being used, because the book is bad-quality, for example, you'll be able to guess the letter (and the word) using context. Look at the words before it and after it, and you'll know which word this is. That's also something you'll pick up naturally, over time and with practice.


Yes, it's much easier to write Arabic using a computer as compared to writing it by hand.

A ى is a Yaa as well. Both this ي and this ى is "Yaa". However, ي is more commonly used, and also, ى is generally connected to a letter before it, and is used to give an elongated sound, like عَلَى, for example. "`Alaa", meaning "on; upon; on top of". That's an ع, a ل and a ى. If a ي had been used over there, it would have been علي "`Ali".

والله تعالى أعلم

والسلام
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noraina
03-19-2017, 05:59 PM
Assalamu alaykum,

This is a great idea for a thread. I'm studying Arabic grammar at the moment. Alhamdulillah it isn't quite impossible, lol, but I've found I need to keep up my studies regularly because if I leave a long enough gap, I've forgotten what I've previously learnt and I can't understand the next chapter.

I get really caught up on حُرُوفُ الْجَرِّ and تَنْوين , (sp?) at the beginning of every lesson I have to reread those chapters otherwise I can't get my head around them.

May Allah swt make it easy for all of us to learn the language of the Qur'an, ameen.

I studied things the wrong way around. I've been trying to 'understand' Arabic for less than two years while I've been practising Arabic calligraphy for four years now and I love writing the Arabic script, it's just beautiful ma'sha'Allah.
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Serinity
03-19-2017, 07:28 PM
:salam:

Yeah, Arabic is beautiful and fun to learn!

I have another question. For now the difference between ن and ذ if in a sentence. (Dhal (Zal) disconnects, while Nuun connects) I can only distinguish between when it stands with something else.. or is at the end (usually it looks a bit different there)

So before going to my question:

Bro Huzaifah, you came with 2 examples o ي ى

First:
ع ل ى = عَلَى (Alaa) (ى enlengtheen the Lam / La)

Second:
ع ل ي = عَلَي ('Ali) <-- ? There is no zeer (therefore no Li)? I see "A(عَ)La(لَ) " What makes لَ go لِ ?

Now to my inquiry: Sukhoon, what is it? And I am especially interested in words like Jannah, Kabah, etc. Grammatically, cuz, they don't end in "Jannaha" or "Kabaha"
So for Jannah (is my use of sukhoon right in making Jannaha to Jannah):
جًنَحَْ
Kabah:
كَبَحَْ

Btw, how do I know when to use: هه or ح for "ha"? Like, the difference between, ظ and ز etc.
.......................
This "omission" of u's i's and a's is interesting.. Say, for example, the word you gave:
Yadhkuru:
يذْكُرُ
Or mine: (Jannatul )
جًنَتُلْ
Btw, it is hard to distinguish between (Phonetically) صَ and سَ
The first is Saa (aa as in apple) the second is “Saa” (aa as in “odd” (o sound))
But there are many like these, I guess this is a thing that will help with practice? Because, say the word Firdaws I know it contains ف ر but the rest. ”Daws” is it “d-a-w-s” as in ذ عَ و ؟) ) The “D” and “S” I don’t know what is. Like say "ha" and "hu" or "hi" (حَ حِ حُ) or "ra" "ri" "ru" (رَ رِ رٌ ) where the "a, i, u" gets omitted? it becomes "r"
Like say Noor نُرْ ؟
In short:

What rules are there? What I know is: Zabar / Zubur, Zeer, and Pesch) and double Zubur, zeer, pesch, etc. Sorry if this is long. But main point is:

How do I use Sukhoon (omit the letters as in Jannatul or Yankuru)?

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Serinity
03-26-2017, 02:27 PM
:salam:

I've come to know more, and I have noticed, when one uses Sukhoon (which on the PC, I've noticed, is ْ سْ for example) when using sukhoon.. the A E I O U Y etc. gets omitted.

For example I-l-m (Knowledge) is:

عِلْمْ Notice the dots?? It makes "Ilama" to "Ilm". (a / e etc. removed) Or say Niqab: نِقَبْ or Onione / thawm: ثوْم

I've noticed that in say thawm, the sukhoon is not there, yet it is still thawm and not thawma, how??

But say Thuu'baan: ثُعْبَان Ayn is skipped because Ayn is either A, I or U. Ba has a stretch (baa, not ba) because of the alif?

Btw, some grammatical "symbols" confuse me. Say: إ The hamza under.

So what else is there to know about the grammar sounds / rules? What does the crown do ّ ؟

Say in Bismi-llahi Rahmani raheem?

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Yahya.
03-26-2017, 05:34 PM
As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah

Brother @Serenity

1- You know which letter is to be used in writing if you've already seen that word before. And besides that you can recognize it from its sound. There are phonetic charts describing the spelling of each letter.

For example:




Now you can compare these sounds [...] with English ones.
For example: ه is [h] like the h in English. But ح is spelled[ħ], which is not found in the English alphabet. So you have the option of comparing it with the sound of another letter you already know by using phonetic symbols, or you learn and memorize it through hearing, which is easier in my opinion.

2- Use of sukoon

Sukoon interupts the sound of the letter, meaning you don't spell any vocal sound on that letter.
It would take much time and require knowledge to list all cases where you have to use a Sukoon, but you'll automatically get used to it by time. Mostly there are definite 'shapes' of conjugation, so you adjust the infinitive (mostly consisting of three letters in Arabic, like كــــتــــب- Kaaf Taa Baa (Kataba) [to write], to the shape of the grammaical function you want to conjugate. For example you want to conjugate the passive participle (ismu'l maf'uul) of kataba (to write), you will have to use the shape مَـفْـعـول mafool to conjugate this. So we have مَـكْـتوب maktoob (the written). You see, the letter kaaf has a sukoon, because the 'shape' we conjugated it into has a sukoon on its second main letter (faa)

Jannah is written as following: جنة
and Ka'bah: كعبة

Firstly, last vocals of the sentences -in everyday language it includes many words within the sentence too- are mostly omitted in reading. And besides that, these vocal endings change according to the grammatical case it's used in. For example Accusative ends with an 'a' mostly. And nomintaive ends with an 'u' mostly. I say 'mostly' because there are exceptions :)

You said 'Jannatul', but that's not a word in itself. It could be for example 'Jannatul Khuld'. But Jannat takes it L from the definite article of another word (Al Khuld), which is the case in Genitive. So the answer of your question is explained by the grammatical case (i.e. Genitive).

Example: Jannatul Khuld ِجَنَّةُ الْخُلْد The gardens of eternity.


But this is too advanced, as you're just working on the alphabet, I assume. As I said previously, there are certain rules you will learn by time, you don't need to go that much into details at the beginning.

3- Same with the rules on Hamza, there are many writing rules on it. The hamza under the alif means that it's pronounced 'i' instead of 'u' or 'a'. It's applied to indicated that this Alif is spelled. As Alifs are not spelled sometimes. They are called Alifu'l Wasl in that case, meaning 'connecting alif.' for example في الذين (filladheena) [no translation as these words are just particles outside of an actual sentence] You don't say fee alladheena, you connect both words to filladheena. Sometimes there are small saad's to indicate an Alifu'l Wasl, but only in Quranic scripts. To sum up: Alif with a Hamza= spelled ; Alif without a Hamza= not spelled.

And of course, it's helpful to use a Hamza on an Alif to distinguish between an actual 'a' and a long vowel (aa)

4- The ''crown'' is called ''shadda'', it's used for double consonants. For example: Allah الله There is a ''crown'' on the Laam of the word Allah.

******
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fatimahhh92
03-27-2017, 01:13 PM
Thank you so much for starting this thread, answerd alot of my questions. JazakAllah Khair
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