Version and changing of the Torah/Bible

[.alhamdulillah.]

Just looking for solid evidence that the Torah and Bible has been changed, or that it is clearly not historically legitimized to be traced back to its time.

Everywhere you look online it's hard to find solid evidence because you have search results from all sides with each religion defending its own, and then other people attacking it, it's hard to swift through the bias.

[urkahnkhan]

Read.. codex sinicus and st. barnabas and couple of other version exposing everything your searching for.. Good look with you research

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you alhamdulillah.;

Just looking for solid evidence that the Torah and Bible has been changed, or that it is clearly not historically legitimized to be traced back to its time.

Can you find solid evidence that God exists? There is no solid evidence, or there would be no atheists, and we would all believe exactly in the same way.

Everywhere you look online it's hard to find solid evidence because you have search results from all sides with each religion defending its own,

You are right

and then other people attacking it, it's hard to swift through the bias.

If you do more research, how will you avoid doing more of the same?

The Jews are God's chosen people, Christians are chosen by Christ, and in Islam Allah chooses whom he wills. Did the same God make a mistake when he chose you to be a wonderful Muslim, and me to be a Christian.

The greater challenge, is how do we use our own scripture to change ourselves, and how do we get on with other people despite our differences?

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

[.alhamdulillah.]

Greetings and peace be with you alhamdulillah.;



Can you find solid evidence that God exists? There is no solid evidence, or there would be no atheists, and we would all believe exactly in the same way.



You are right



If you do more research, how will you avoid doing more of the same?

The Jews are God's chosen people, Christians are chosen by Christ, and in Islam Allah chooses whom he wills. Did the same God make a mistake when he chose you to be a wonderful Muslim, and me to be a Christian.

The greater challenge, is how do we use our own scripture to change ourselves, and how do we get on with other people despite our differences?

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

I'm sorry but that I don't agree with, because then you can't have all of them in their current version today being true. I'm not here to have a debate or anything, just saying that I don't agree with that all can be true at the same time today, when the messages have clear differences.

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[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you alhamdulillah.;

I'm sorry but that I don't agree with,

You are right, how can we ever agree?

because then you can't have all of them in their current version today being true.

I believe that all truth must always lead towards kindness, compassion, mercy and forgiveness. I believe that we each must use our own truth towards these aims. Scriptures are far more powerful when we try to change ourselves, rather than when we use them to try to change other people.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

[Bobbyflay23]

Greetings and peace be with you alhamdulillah.;



Can you find solid evidence that God exists? There is no solid evidence, or there would be no atheists, and we would all believe exactly in the same way.



You are right



If you do more research, how will you avoid doing more of the same?

The Jews are God's chosen people, Christians are chosen by Christ, and in Islam Allah chooses whom he wills. Did the same God make a mistake when he chose you to be a wonderful Muslim, and me to be a Christian.

The greater challenge, is how do we use our own scripture to change ourselves, and how do we get on with other people despite our differences?

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

There is solid evidence that there's a creator all of this that we are existing in couldn't have created itself somthing needed to create it logically so logically speaking there has to be. A god and if he was created by somthing then it would just keep on going and there would never be a point of creation and there wouldn't be a start so he has to be uncreated too.

[Bobbyflay23]

Just looking for solid evidence that the Torah and Bible has been changed, or that it is clearly not historically legitimized to be traced back to its time.

Everywhere you look online it's hard to find solid evidence because you have search results from all sides with each religion defending its own, and then other people attacking it, it's hard to swift through the bias.

It's simple the fact that it contains contradictions means either it was written by a human being or a human being changed it after god revealed it because god can't make mistakes and how do we know the Bible actually came from jesus (as) the only real way to prove it is through Islam because in Islam we have somthing called the golden chain which then is a outside source to tell us how the Quran came to existence and everything and then we have scientfic evidence and fulfilled prophecys and then we have a method to make sure corruption can't happen to the book so that makes the Quran a reliable source that goes to god and god says in the Quran that he revealed the Angeil so that means the Bible from god because we have a reliable source telling us so but that fact that it contains contradictions means it must've been changed also the Quran itself makes the claim it's been changed in a few verses don't quote me on it but i remember it went along the lines of would you believe that the people of the book would revert after a group of them changed the book after them (meaning that since it contradicts the Quran because the scholars changed it according to there desires they will never believe but if they hadn't changed it the Quran would basically align with it and they would believe because it confirms the Torah and angeil and extend from it too)(also that's meant for Muslims for Non Muslims that deny the Quran then just stick to the contradictions anology no need to go farther into what I said about the Quran)

[MuhammadHamza1]

Greetings and peace be with you alhamdulillah.;



Can you find solid evidence that God exists? There is no solid evidence, or there would be no atheists, and we would all believe exactly in the same way.



You are right



If you do more research, how will you avoid doing more of the same?

The Jews are God's chosen people, Christians are chosen by Christ, and in Islam Allah chooses whom he wills. Did the same God make a mistake when he chose you to be a wonderful Muslim, and me to be a Christian.

The greater challenge, is how do we use our own scripture to change ourselves, and how do we get on with other people despite our differences?

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

There is no doubt among learned scholors that the New Testament is not preserved.
Listen to Bart d Ehrman.

[AndreasZ]

Just looking for solid evidence that the Torah and Bible has been changed, or that it is clearly not historically legitimized to be traced back to its time.

Everywhere you look online it's hard to find solid evidence because you have search results from all sides with each religion defending its own, and then other people attacking it, it's hard to swift through the bias.

As a former devout Christian (now Muslim) I hope I can provide some answers.

I can say that the New Testament has certainly been altered over time in words and how it is practiced. In the early Christian period, there were numerous manuscripts being produced which over time multiplied into numerous versions of the exact same text, constantly being edited. It wasn't until the 4th Century Church that a standard collection of books became accepted as a divine account of the Christian vision, while many others were omitted, and the compiled Bible was still undergoing constant changes in its early production. Even today there is not a generally accepted version among the Christians as the Catholic Bible contains 73 books while the Protestant Bible contains 66 books. Where the Bible contradicts itself is the easiest way to identify a passage that has a higher likelihood of having been altered.

For example, the famous account in the Gospel of John in which Jesus challenges a mob about to stone a woman accused of adultery was inserted into the book around 300 years after that Gospel first appeared.

Another would be the Gospel of Mark when Jesus appears to his disciplines after the resurrection which also doesn't appear in the earlier manuscripts of that book.

There are many many other similar cases.

Beyond the literal words of the Bible, there is also the manner in which the Church has changed the interpretation and meaning of the message of Prophet Isa (PBUH), the Trinity Doctrine is one of the most obvious contradictions.

One of the miracles of the Quran is how it first exposed this reality which only in more recent times has been further confirmed by historians and scientists.

[Amor101]

The Christians do not have a chain of authority that tracked those books back to the Prophet Jesus. Therefore, they cannot use them. Muslims do have the chain of authority that links us back to Prophet, saws.

Chain of authority is used by all historians in all fields and it is the only way of knowing the realities of the past.

The above I got from a knowledgeable brother and it is a very good refutation.

See, the chain of authority is called "senad" in Arabic. The Muslim scholars possess it, not us regular Muslims. It is a form of which one generation passes the Qur'an and hadeeths down to next generation.
Scholars of time of the prophet (such as Prophet's cousin Ibn Abbas ) pass it to next generation link B. Link B passes it to link C,and so on.

The Christians do not have a chain of authority that links a priest for example to Prophet Isah.
Also he mentioned something about the early church and how they preserved the Bible.

The above is a very good refutation.