Preservation of Qur'an

[Captain Howdy]

There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3^rd of the modern day Quran) and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.

The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah. Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

Still preserved?

['Abd-al Latif]

There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3^rd of the modern day Quran) and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.

The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah. Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

Still preserved?

There comes a time when you really do need to learn to think before you speak. Unfortunately, some people lack the ability to avoid making an embarrassment out of themselves.

The Qur'an was memorised and even written down during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws1: but was not written in a book format until after his death. This is for the following reasons:

1. The Qur'an was revealed in stages which spanned a period of 23 years;
2. The Qur'an was memorised by Muhammad's companions during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws1:;
3. The Prophet (:saws1:) appointed a group of his companions to write down the revelation during his lifetime, such as Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas, Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan, Zayd ibn Thaabit and others;
4. The Qur'an was written down on animal hides and other materials as books and paper weren't common as they are today;
5. After the death of the Prophet :saws1:, all the companions who had written the Qur'an down and memorised it put it together in book format. This was done soon after his death;
6. The instance of saying bismillah isn't a scholarly opinion. The discussions amongst the scholars are whether it's recommended or obligatory to say bismillah before reciting the Qur'an. At the very least we know it's recommended. This argument of yours holds absolutely no bearing of whether or not the Qur'an is "incomplete";

The Qur'an is indeed fully preserved and no portion of it has been lost in any shape or form since the past 1400 years.

This is your last and final warning. We've spoken to you on numerous occasions about your attitude but you've ignored our warnings. Any further issues and you will be permanently banned.

[Captain Howdy]

[deleted]

[OmAbdullah]

There comes a time when you really do need to learn to think before you speak. Unfortunately, some people lack the ability to avoid making an embarrassment out of themselves.

The Qur'an was memorised and even written down during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws1: but was not written in a book format until after his death. This is for the following reasons:

1. The Qur'an was revealed in stages which spanned a period of 23 years;
2. The Qur'an was memorised by Muhammad's companions during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws1:;
3. The Prophet (:saws1:) appointed a group of his companions to write down the revelation during his lifetime, such as Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas, Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan, Zayd ibn Thaabit and others;
4. The Qur'an was written down on animal hides and other materials as books and paper weren't common as they are today;
5. After the death of the Prophet :saws1:, all the companions who had written the Qur'an down and memorised it put it together in book format. This was done soon after his death;
6. The instance of saying bismillah isn't a scholarly opinion. The discussions amongst the scholars are whether it's recommended or obligatory to say bismillah before reciting the Qur'an. At the very least we know it's recommended. This argument of yours holds absolutely no bearing of whether or not the Qur'an is "incomplete";

The Qur'an is indeed fully preserved and no portion of it has been lost in any shape or form since the past 1400 years.

This is your last and final warning. We've spoken to you on numerous occasions about your attitude but you've ignored our warnings. Any further issues and you will be permanently banned.

Assalaamo alaykum


In the past there was a thread in which I had proved by evidence that the Holy Quraan was fully completed and the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had placed one full Quraan with Hafza rAa. With Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam there were 40 or more than 4o scribes who used to write the revelations from him salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. So at one and the same time 40 or more that 40 Quraans were prepared from which he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam placed one copy with Hafzah rAa. Then when more Quraans were needed in the time of Abu Bakar rAa, he took that copy from Hafzah rAa and made more copies. After that he returned that copy to her.



Before leaving this world, the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had said a hadeeth that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving two things among us, one the Book of Allah and second his Sunnah. Whoever holds fast to these two, will never go astray.



This hadeeth is a proof that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had left Quraan among us as a complete Book.

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[AabiruSabeel]

In addition to what brother 'Abd-al Latif has posted, we also have a continuous chain of memorization of the Qur'an since the time of the Prophet :saws:, with millions of Huffaz all over the world, all reciting exactly the same words. No other book in the world can come anywhere near.

See this thread for the continuous chains of recitation and memorization of the Holy Qur'an: The Isnād System: An Unbroken Link to The Prophet

[anatolian]

Quran was continously being revealed in the life time of the Prophet aleyhissalam. It would be totally illogical to compile it as a book then. You cant compile an unfinished book.

Btw this must be the first thread created by a disabled account ;D

[talibilm]

There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3^rd of the modern day Quran)

Its 1/3rd or half or full , that does not matter and does not add or reduce anything to the existing, memorized by millions of Muslims which was the same system followed from the day 1 of the Quran's revelation by writing it down & memorizing it directly from the blessed lips of Prophet :saws: and All the Sahabas and Salaf are its isnad or Chain of Narrators,

More info on this in post #

and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.

So Called Sana scripts that were found hidden on a roof ceiling ( Why hidden ? if they were legitimate ? are seen clearly to be washed and over written on them ) are those manuscripts that were to be destroyed by burning by the Order of the Caliph Uthman RA but were thrown into well or lake (another method of discarding mushaf or old Quran) and were found by the hypocrites (or jews, might be the Ibn Sabah group of Yemen) who had over written on and hid them in the ceiling. So this are not be regarded as the correct manuscripts of the Glorious Quran except the Uthmanic script in Tashkent whose dates are already proved by the Radio Carbon analysis by Oxford Lab, commissioned under the Christies auction company.

The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah. Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

Still preserved?

Wow thanks for proving, our Scholars are so serious even to take a word ''Bismillah ' in the glorious Quran , and how to treat it (as explained above ) Shows how PRECISE is the Glorious Quran from insertion, adulteration, Mashallah Our Scholars (by the help of Allah ) had DONE SUPERB JOB by being VIGILANT always even about the great word of Name of Allah , to include it or Not ? in the Glorious Quran LEST if it did not come TOGETHER with the revelation !!

Even our Hadith are well preserved with Isnad System so what is there to doubt about the Glorious Quran ?which is more protected , preserved in written , Memorized, read every day five times in our Salah & even taught to kids who Memorize them as well from day 1 of its first revelation and a little later in the presence of Prophet :saws: with 1000's of witnesses !!

[Scimitar]

[OmAbdullah]

Quran was continously being revealed in the life time of the Prophet aleyhissalam. It would be totally illogical to compile it as a book then. You cant compile an unfinished book.

Btw this must be the first thread created by a disabled account

The revelation of the Holy Quraan was completed in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The last surah revealed was the surah Al-Nasar (An-Nasar). This surah is No. 114 in its order of revelation.


Allah said in surah Al-Ma'idah verse 3 (Here is the English tranlation with the explanatory note):


(5:3) Forbidden to you are carrion,⁹ blood, the flesh of swine, the animal slaughtered in any name other than Allah's,¹⁰ the animal which has either been strangled, killed by blows, has died of a fall, by goring or that devoured by a beast of prey - unless it be that which you yourselves might have slaughtered while it was still alive¹¹ - and that which was slaughtered at the altars.¹²-¹³ You are also forbidden to seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows.¹⁴ All these are sinful acts. This day the unbelievers have fully despaired of your religion. Do not fear them; but fear Me.¹⁵ This day I have perfected for you your religion, and have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure, and have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion. (Follow, then, the lawful and unlawful bounds enjoined upon you.)¹⁶ As for he who is driven by hunger, without being wilfully inclined to sin, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.¹⁷
************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************

^{Exp. note 16:}


16. The 'perfection of religion' mentioned in this verse refers to making it a self-sufficient system of belief and conduct, and an order of social life providing its own answers to the questions with which man is confronted. This system contains all necessary guidance for man, either by expounding fundamental principles from which detailed directives can be deduced or by spelling out such directives explicitly so that in no circumstances would one need to look for guidance to any extraneous source.
The bounty referred to in the statement: 'I have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure', is the bounty of true guidance.


The statement: 'I have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion' means that, since the Muslims had proved by their conduct and their striving that they were honest and sincere about the commitment they had made to God in embracing Islam - the commitment to serve and obey Him - He had accepted their sincerity and created conditions in which they were no longer yoked in bondage to anyone but Him. Thus the Muslims were not prevented from living in submission to God out of extraneous constraints just as there were no constraints preventing them from subscribing to true beliefs. Having recounted these favours, God does not point out what should be the proper response to those favours. But the implication is obvious: the only appropriate response on the part of the believers must be unstinting observance of the law of God out of gratitude to Him.


According to authentic traditions this verse was revealed in 10 A.H. on the occasion of the Prophet's Farewell Pilgrimage. The context however, seems to indicate that it was revealed soon after the conclusion of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah (i.e. in 6 A.H.). All parts of the discourse in which this verse occurs are so tightly interwoven and so closely inter-connected that it hardly seems conceivable that it should have been inserted here several years later. My own estimate - and true knowledge of this lies with God alone - is that this verse was originally revealed in its present context (i.e. commenting upon the conditions prevailing at the time of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah). It is conceivable that the true significance of the verse was not then fully appreciated. But later on, when Islam prevailed over the whole of Arabia and the power of Islam reached a high point, God once again revealed this verse to His Messenger and ordered him to proclaim it.
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************


The Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) proclaimed the above verse of surah Al-Maidah in Makkah at the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage. At that occasion he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked the gathering of the Muslims three times if he had conveyed them the Message. They said “yes”, and then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam made Allah the Witness on their saying. That was the time when his mission as a Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) of Allah was fully perfected.


This is not befitting for a Believer (i.e. a Muslim) to say or think or to believe that Allah’s words of perfecting the Deen were not true. We as Muslims, seek the refuge of Allah from such kufar (unbelief) in Islam. So our belief as Muslims must be that Islam (Quraan and Sunnah) was perfected in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam from all points of view.


(To be continued insha-Allah)

[anatolian]

The revelation of the Holy Quraan was completed in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The last surah revealed was the surah Al-Nasar (An-Nasar). This surah is No. 114 in its order of revelation.


Allah said in surah Al-Ma'idah verse 3 (Here is the English tranlation with the explanatory note):


(5:3) Forbidden to you are carrion,⁹ blood, the flesh of swine, the animal slaughtered in any name other than Allah's,¹⁰ the animal which has either been strangled, killed by blows, has died of a fall, by goring or that devoured by a beast of prey - unless it be that which you yourselves might have slaughtered while it was still alive¹¹ - and that which was slaughtered at the altars.¹²-¹³ You are also forbidden to seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows.¹⁴ All these are sinful acts. This day the unbelievers have fully despaired of your religion. Do not fear them; but fear Me.¹⁵ This day I have perfected for you your religion, and have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure, and have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion. (Follow, then, the lawful and unlawful bounds enjoined upon you.)¹⁶ As for he who is driven by hunger, without being wilfully inclined to sin, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.¹⁷
************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************

^{Exp. note 16:}


16. The 'perfection of religion' mentioned in this verse refers to making it a self-sufficient system of belief and conduct, and an order of social life providing its own answers to the questions with which man is confronted. This system contains all necessary guidance for man, either by expounding fundamental principles from which detailed directives can be deduced or by spelling out such directives explicitly so that in no circumstances would one need to look for guidance to any extraneous source.
The bounty referred to in the statement: 'I have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure', is the bounty of true guidance.


The statement: 'I have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion' means that, since the Muslims had proved by their conduct and their striving that they were honest and sincere about the commitment they had made to God in embracing Islam - the commitment to serve and obey Him - He had accepted their sincerity and created conditions in which they were no longer yoked in bondage to anyone but Him. Thus the Muslims were not prevented from living in submission to God out of extraneous constraints just as there were no constraints preventing them from subscribing to true beliefs. Having recounted these favours, God does not point out what should be the proper response to those favours. But the implication is obvious: the only appropriate response on the part of the believers must be unstinting observance of the law of God out of gratitude to Him.


According to authentic traditions this verse was revealed in 10 A.H. on the occasion of the Prophet's Farewell Pilgrimage. The context however, seems to indicate that it was revealed soon after the conclusion of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah (i.e. in 6 A.H.). All parts of the discourse in which this verse occurs are so tightly interwoven and so closely inter-connected that it hardly seems conceivable that it should have been inserted here several years later. My own estimate - and true knowledge of this lies with God alone - is that this verse was originally revealed in its present context (i.e. commenting upon the conditions prevailing at the time of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah). It is conceivable that the true significance of the verse was not then fully appreciated. But later on, when Islam prevailed over the whole of Arabia and the power of Islam reached a high point, God once again revealed this verse to His Messenger and ordered him to proclaim it.
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************


The Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) proclaimed the above verse of surah Al-Maidah in Makkah at the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage. At that occasion he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked the gathering of the Muslims three times if he had conveyed them the Message. They said “yes”, and then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam made Allah the Witness on their saying. That was the time when his mission as a Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) of Allah was fully perfected.


This is not befitting for a Believer (i.e. a Muslim) to say or think or to believe that Allah’s words of perfecting the Deen were not true. We as Muslims, seek the refuge of Allah from such kufar (unbelief) in Islam. So our belief as Muslims must be that Islam (Quraan and Sunnah) was perfected in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam from all points of view.


(To be continued insha-Allah)

Ofcourse but the Prophet aleyhissalam died only 6 months after the revelation of the last ayah. I gues it wasnt a sufficient amount of time to do this work.

[talibilm]

Ofcourse but the Prophet aleyhissalam died only 6 months after the revelation of the last ayah. I gues it wasnt a sufficient amount of time to do this work.

:sl:

I think this is not so as i even thought so before.

The Prophet of Allah whom through more than 240 prophecies most have been full filled OUGHT to have done but left this great Job to his Sahabas '' as a TEST'' . Allah tested his Sahabas did they carry out as Allah has ordered his Prophet to say to Muslims to listen and abide the order of the Calipha ? and resolve their affairs accordingly as in the verse

But seeing some other Hadith it clear most of the Glorious Quran was already in the book form but in 7 dialects and this FIRST & LAST AFFIRMATION by Uthman :RA: was MAINLY INTO ONE STANDARD DIALECT ie '' THE QURAISHI DIALECT " in which The Quran was originally FIRST revealed.

Inshallah I shall update(later) other hadiths THAT PROVES the glorious Quran was already available in the form of a Book


PROOF NO 1 , the first verse of the sura Bakra says that '' Dzalikalkithabu lairaiba feehi .......''

2:2 '' This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -

[OmAbdullah]

Ofcourse but the Prophet aleyhissalam died only 6 months after the revelation of the last ayah. I gues it wasnt a sufficient amount of time to do this work.

The prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was not the servant of a worldly human king. He was a servant and a Prophet (The Final Prophet) of Allah Who is the Sovereign of the whole universe. so his case was very different from the servants of the worldly kings.



Suppose a worldly king gives an assignment / a mission to a servant. The servant may die before the completion of the mission because the life and death of the servant is not in the hands of the human king. So the human king will have to appoint another person for the completion of the mission. But the life and death of all are in the hands of Allah. Death could not come to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam before the completion of the mission that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was sent for.



It is very sad to see that you ignored the words of Allah in the verse 3 of surah Al-Maa-idah (given above in my post). Allah Ta'aala announced the perfection of the Deen which is Islam and its full guidance is given in the Holy Quraan explained by Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam both orally and practically.



From the very beginning the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had appointed more than 40 scribes to write the revelation exactly as he dictated to them. So at one and the same time more than 40 copies were written under his direct guidance and observation.



The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam did never depend on the Quraan in the memory of the Muslims. He always used a written copy for teaching the Holy Quraan. When some of the people from Madinah accepted Islam in Makkah, the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam gave them the copies of the portion of the Holy Quraan that was revealed until that time. They went back to Madinah and conveyed the message of Quraan from those written copies. With that teaching and preaching many people became Muslims and then they invited Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and his companions to Madinah. That made the hijrah possible for them.


In the story of Umar rAa' entering the fold of Islam, it is stated that a companion rAa was teaching a surah to the sister and brother-in law of Umar rAa from a written copy. So the Quraanic verses and surahs were written after each revelation. Even sometimes only some verses were revealed and the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, under Allah's Guidance, instructed the scribes to place those verses in such and such surah between such and such ayaat. Then look at the miraculous arrangement of the verses in a surah that the verse about Ummati wasata comes at the number 143 in the Surah Al-Baqarah. The surah Al-Baqarah has 286 verses, So the verse stating that this Ummah is the Middle ummah comes at a middle number of 286 which is 143.


So this arrangement of the verses in the surahs and that of the surahs in the whole Quraan is very miraculous and is done only by Allah All-Mighty through His Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.


- - - Updated - - -

Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.


I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.

[anatolian]

The prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was not the servant of a worldly human king. He was a servant and a Prophet (The Final Prophet) of Allah Who is the Sovereign of the whole universe. so his case was very different from the servants of the worldly kings.



Suppose a worldly king gives an assignment / a mission to a servant. The servant may die before the completion of the mission because the life and death of the servant is not in the hands of the human king. So the human king will have to appoint another person for the completion of the mission. But the life and death of all are in the hands of Allah. Death could not come to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam before the completion of the mission that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was sent for.



It is very sad to see that you ignored the words of Allah in the verse 3 of surah Al-Maa-idah (given above in my post). Allah Ta'aala announced the perfection of the Deen which is Islam and its full guidance is given in the Holy Quraan explained by Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam both orally and practically.



From the very beginning the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had appointed more than 40 scribes to write the revelation exactly as he dictated to them. So at one and the same time more than 40 copies were written under his direct guidance and observation.



The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam did never depend on the Quraan in the memory of the Muslims. He always used a written copy for teaching the Holy Quraan. When some of the people from Madinah accepted Islam in Makkah, the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam gave them the copies of the portion of the Holy Quraan that was revealed until that time. They went back to Madinah and conveyed the message of Quraan from those written copies. With that teaching and preaching many people became Muslims and then they invited Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and his companions to Madinah. That made the hijrah possible for them.


In the story of Umar rAa' entering the fold of Islam, it is stated that a companion rAa was teaching a surah to the sister and brother-in law of Umar rAa from a written copy. So the Quraanic verses and surahs were written after each revelation. Even sometimes only some verses were revealed and the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, under Allah's Guidance, instructed the scribes to place those verses in such and such surah between such and such ayaat. Then look at the miraculous arrangement of the verses in a surah that the verse about Ummati wasata comes at the number 143 in the Surah Al-Baqarah. The surah Al-Baqarah has 286 verses, So the verse stating that this Ummah is the Middle ummah comes at a middle number of 286 which is 143.


So this arrangement of the verses in the surahs and that of the surahs in the whole Quraan is very miraculous and is done only by Allah All-Mighty through His Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.


- - - Updated - - -



Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.


I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.

Sister, sorry but I think you have a major misunderstanding problem. I have noticed this in some other posts of you. How what you wrote in this post is an answer to my above post? I am very well aware of that Quran was written on papers by the scribes in the life time of the Propeht aleyhissalam. But it was not compiled as a book. Did you know this? It was done by Abu Bakr r.a.. Please firstly understand what people exactly say, then try to give a related answer.

- - - Updated - - -

:sl:

I think this is not so as i even thought so before.

The Prophet of Allah whom through more than 240 prophecies most have been full filled OUGHT to have done but left this great Job to his Sahabas '' as a TEST'' . Allah tested his Sahabas did they carry out as Allah has ordered his Prophet to say to Muslims to listen and abide the order of the Calipha ? and resolve their affairs accordingly as in the verse

But seeing some other Hadith it clear most of the Glorious Quran was already in the book form but in 7 dialects and this FIRST & LAST AFFIRMATION by Uthman :RA: was MAINLY INTO ONE STANDARD DIALECT ie '' THE QURAISHI DIALECT " in which The Quran was originally FIRST revealed.

Inshallah I shall update(later) other hadiths THAT PROVES the glorious Quran was already available in the form of a Book


PROOF NO 1 , the first verse of the sura Bakra says that '' Dzalikalkithabu lairaiba feehi .......''

2:2 '' This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -

Aleykum Salam. When Quran refers to itself as a "Book" it doesnt necesariliy mean it is an actual book written on papers. Quran was already a book written in Levh-i Mahfouz in the side of Allah before it was revealed. We are discussing the issue why it was not a compiled full book written on papers at the time of the Prophet.

[talibilm]

:sl:

But hadiths like this infer that Quran was already in the form of Book before the demise of Prophet :saws:

Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 840

Anas b. Malik reported, Abu Bakr led them in prayer due to the illness of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) of which be died. It was a Monday and they stood in rows for prayer. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) drew aside the curtain of ('A'isha's) apartment and looked at us while he was standing, and his (Prophet's) face was (as bright) as the paper of the Holy Book. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) felt happy and smiled. And we were confounded with joy while in prayer due to the arrival (among our midst) of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), Abu Bakr stepped back upon his heels to say prayer in a row perceiving that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had come out for prayer. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) with the help of his hand signed to them to complete their prayer. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) went back (to his apartment) and drew the curtain. He (the narrator) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) breathed his last on that very day.


Allah Knows the Best

[OmAbdullah]

Sister, sorry but I think you have a major misunderstanding problem. I have noticed this in some other posts of you. How what you wrote in this post is an answer to my above post? I am very well aware of that Quran was written on papers by the scribes in the life time of the Propeht aleyhissalam. But it was not compiled as a book. Did you know this? It was done by Abu Bakr r.a.. Please firstly understand what people exactly say, then try to give a related answer.

In fact you have no understanding of the Holy Quraan and in spite of that you speak with force. That is very dangerous. Do you consider Allah All-Mighty such a one that when He (Allah All-Mighty ) points to the Book in your and my hands in this world, it means that the Book was incomplete But He always, (before and now ) pointed to the Book in the Lohil-Mahfooz??? If your thoughts about Allah Ta'aala are such then what good can be expected from you??? Alas! Again Alas!



I also have noted this character of yours in other posts on this very forum. Your love and respect for the wrong-doers is much more than for Allah. Allah said: "...Those who believe, they love Allah the most..."
(Surah Al-Baqarah 165)


If I criticized someone, that I did with evidence from his/her words posted on this very forum. I try my best to write things in the light of clear evidence and Quraan is the Al-Furqaan (criterion) for me.


But you without showing gheera/honor /love/and respect for Allah, start strongly praising the one who has been playing mockery with the great Name of Allah. That is very shocking. Even more shocking is the fact that at the present time most of the Muslims don't have Gheera for Allah, Allah's Final Prophet salla Allaho Alaihi wa sallam and for Islam. But they, at least, keep quiet and do not stand in favor of the mockery-makers while you do stand to defend them. That is a dangerous state of Eemaan ( the faith of Islam). I had noted it even before and was shocked but I tried to be patient until you gave me again a chance to tell you the truth about you.



- - - Updated - - -

Aleykum Salam. When Quran refers to itself as a "Book" it doesnt necesariliy mean it is an actual book written on papers. Quran was already a book written in Levh-i Mahfouz in the side of Allah before it was revealed. We are discussing the issue why it was not a compiled full book written on papers at the time of the Prophet.

You are very great, na'aouzubi-Allah. You are asking Allah, " why it was not a compiled full book written on papers at the time of the Prophet".


The answer lies in your own question. Your mind is not satisfied with the fabricated stories of the enemies of Islam. So it is restless. The same mind (Self criticizing spirit) will be witness on you on the Day of Judgment that you were following the liars blindly without your using the great mind that Allah has given to you to ponder seriously on all matters and then decide in the light of the great knowledge of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah. If you only trust Allah and start believing that the story-makers are liars and are the enemies of humanity at large, your mind will get satisfied and this question will disappear from your mind.


Of course, Quraan could not be written on papers at that time but it was written on leather sheets in the form of complete book and that Book was placed with Hafza rAa by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam himself. So in future the companions rAa took that copy from her again and again to write more Quraans as more and more people became Muslims. This is the true story which a sound mind can accept with full satisfaction.

[anatolian]

I really have no idea about what you try to say. If you become more specific I believe I can help you.

[AabiruSabeel]

:salam:

it was written on leather sheets in the form of complete book and that Book was placed with Hafza rAa by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam himself

Do you have any source for this statement? I just want to make sure that you are not making up lies about the Prophet :saws:.

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari :ra:, who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation:

Abu Bakr :ra: sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). `Umar :ra: was present with Abu Bakr :ra: who said, `Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an."
Abu Bakr :ra: added, "I said to `Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' `Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.' So `Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as `Umar."

Zaid bin Thabit :ra: added: `Umar :ra: was sitting with him (Abu Bakr :ra:) and was not speaking to me. Abu Bakr :ra: then said. "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness), and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Messenger :saws:. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript)."

By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr :ra:) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr :ra: said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing."

So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr :ra: and `Umar :ra:. So I started locating Qur'anic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuza`ima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128)

The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with `Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, `Umar's daughter. [Bukhari]

[AabiruSabeel]

The Qur'an is a unique book. It is the words of Allah :swt: Himself. It was revealed on the heart of the Prophet :saws:.

It is one of the miracles of the Qur'an that it wasn't sent down as written book. Written scriptures can be tampered with, as have happened with all previous scriptures. But Allah :swt: preserved the Qur'an by a unique method, memorization and oral recitation.

Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala says:

وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿١٩٢﴾ نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ ﴿١٩٣﴾ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ ﴿١٩٤﴾ بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ ﴿١٩٥﴾ـ

And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
In a clear Arabic language. [26:192-195]

Previous scriptures were in written from yet they were corrupted. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it is revealed on the heart of our Prophet :saws1: and it passes on from a heart to millions of hearts until Allah wills for it to be lifted near the last Day.

To preserve the complete Qur'an, Jibra'eel :as: used to recite the Qur'an to the Prophet :saws: every year during Ramadhan.

Narrated Abu-Huraira :ra:

Gabriel used to repeat the recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet :saws: once a year, but he repeated it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet :saws: used to stay in I'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramadan), but in the year of his death, he stayed in I'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari]

As we can see from the above Hadith, the Qur'an was completely finalized as we have it now during the last year of the Prophet :saws:. Since then, there has been no additions or subtractions.


The Qur'an was completely memorized by heart by several companions of the Prophet :saws: during his lifetime. It was also written down completely during his lifetime itself but the written parchments were scattered among the companions.

During the time of first Khalifah, Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq :ra:, the written parchments were compiled together in a book form, commonly known as مصحف MusHaf. During the compilation, each written verse was confirmed by at least two companions who had it memorized and written during the Prophet's :saws: lifetime.

Then again, during the time of the third Khalifah, 'Uthman ibn 'Affan :ra:, Islam became widespread and people began reciting the Qur'an with a slight tint of their own dialects. In order to preserve the original dialect in which Qur'an was revealed, he :ra: ordered copies of the Qur'an in the original Quraish dialect to be made and distributed to all provinces, and asked other various dialects to be discarded.

It is important to note that we have several un-broken mutawatir chains of narration of the Qur'an present even until now.



Difference between Qur'an and MusHaf

Most people do not know the difference between these two terms. They may not have even come across the words mushaf (pronounced as mos-Haf) before. This is the reason why they confuse between the two and automatically assume that the MusHaf is itself the Qur'an.


The Qur'an is the actual words of Allah revealed on the prophet :saws:. It is the recitation, the actual recited words and Ayaat and Suwar (pl. of Surah), consisting of 114 Surah in total.

Whereas, the musHaf is the “compiled, written pages of the Qur’an.” In other words, the term “Qur'an” refers to the specific “revelation that was read to Prophet Muhammad” whereas the term “mushaf” denotes the “written form” of that revelation.

Each mushaf follows a particular “Qira’a (reading)” of the Qur’an. A “reading” is a way of writing or pronouncing the Qur’anic text. There are seven readings of the Qur’an that are considered authoritative.

A mushaf may be written using any of a number of different Arabic scripts. For instance, one mushaf may be written using the Kufi script and another using Thulth.

Furthermore, Arabic scripts developed over time, which means older mushafs that were written using the same script look different from new ones. For instance, the use of diacritical marks (dots above or under letters), which is known as “i’jam,” and the use of voweling marks (signs representing vowels), which is known as “tashkil,” were both introduced later into Arabic scripts, so early mushafs did not have them. The availability of a number of readings and scripts means that different mushafs may look differently.


All mushafs have the same organization of chapters and the verses within each chapter. For instance, every mushaf starts with the chapter of “al-Fatiha (Opening)” and ends with the chapter of “an-Nas (people).” However, chapters and verses are not listed in the mushaf in the chronological order of their revelation. For instance, the first verses of the Qur’an that were revealed to the Prophet are from chapter 96 in the mushaf.
This is why there is only one Qur’an but different mushafs. But the differences between those mushafs are minimal, as they are written, compiled records of the one and same Qur’an.



In conclusion, the Qur'an was complete as an orally recited book during the lifetime of the prophet :saws:, and was written down on several parchments and their copies with several different companions, but it wasn't compiled in a mushaf form that we see today. The first mushaf was prepared during the time of Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq :ra:.


Definitions and explanation taken from http://www.quranicstudies.com/quran/...an-and-mushaf/

[Insaanah]

:salamext:

"The prophet :saws: did not bind all the surahs together into one master volume, as evidenced by Zaid bin Thabit's :ra: statement that,

قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

The Prophet :saws: was taken [from this life] whilst the Qur'an had not yet been gathered in anything"

Note the usage of the word 'gathered' rather than 'written'."

Ibn Hajar, Fathul Bari, ix:12

Source:
A history of the Quranic text, from revelation
to compilation, by M. M. Al-Azami

https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/his...ranic_text.pdf

This book deals with the subject in detail and with authentic sources.

And Allah knows best.

[Scimitar]

Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.


I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.

You did not know that there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent? And so - the need to standardise the Arabic into the recitation of the Prophet pbuh was initiated? DO you know how much of a difference there is between Maalik, and Malik? One means Owner and the other means King. These are not the same in intention. An Owner can never be questioned about his propery, because it is his to do what he wants with, but a King has to answer to the Owner, and only Allah is the Owner.

This is BASIC info bro. If you don't know what you are talking about, with respect, shut it!

['Abd-al Latif]

You did not know that there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent? And so - the need to standardise the Arabic into the recitation of the Prophet pbuh was initiated? DO you know how much of a difference there is between Maalik, and Malik? One means Owner and the other means King. These are not the same in intention. An Owner can never be questioned about his propery, because it is his to do what he wants with, but a King has to answer to the Owner, and only Allah is the Owner.

This is BASIC info bro. If you don't know what you are talking about, with respect, shut it!

No need for the hostility. Please be respectful towards others or, with respect, shut it!

p.s the poster is a sister not a bro.

[Scimitar]

No need for the hostility. Please be respectful towards others or, with respect, shut it!

p.s the poster is a sister not a bro.

but she walks like a man :D

[talibilm]

It is one of the miracles of the Qur'an that it wasn't sent down as written book. Written scriptures can be tampered with, as have happened with all previous scriptures. But Allah :swt: preserved the Qur'an by a unique method, memorization and oral recitation.

Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala says:

وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿١٩٢﴾ نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ ﴿١٩٣﴾ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ ﴿١٩٤﴾ بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ ﴿١٩٥﴾ـ

And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
In a clear Arabic language. [26:192-195]

Previous scriptures were in written from yet they were corrupted. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it is revealed on the heart of our Prophet :saws1: and it passes on from a heart to millions of hearts until Allah wills for it to be lifted near the last Day.

To preserve the complete Qur'an, Jibra'eel :as: used to recite the Qur'an to the Prophet :saws: every year during Ramadhan.

Narrated Abu-Huraira :ra:

Gabriel used to repeat the recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet :saws: once a year, but he repeated it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet :saws: used to stay in I'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramadan), but in the year of his death, he stayed in I'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari]

As we can see from the above Hadith, the Qur'an was completely finalized as we have it now during the last year of the Prophet :saws:. Since then, there has been no additions or subtractions.


The Qur'an was completely memorized by heart by several companions of the Prophet :saws: during his lifetime. It was also written down completely during his lifetime itself but the written parchments were scattered among the companions.

During the time of first Khalifah, Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq :ra:, the written parchments were compiled together in a book form, commonly known as مصحف MusHaf. During the compilation, each written verse was confirmed by at least two companions who had it memorized and written during the Prophet's :saws: lifetime.

Then again, during the time of the third Khalifah, 'Uthman ibn 'Affan :ra:, Islam became widespread and people began reciting the Qur'an with a slight tint of their own dialects. In order to preserve the original dialect in which Qur'an was revealed, he :ra: ordered copies of the Qur'an in the original Quraish dialect to be made and distributed to all provinces, and asked other various dialects to be discarded.

It is important to note that we have several un-broken mutawatir chains of narration of the Qur'an present even until now.

:sl:

I 've bolded above all those points of great Hikmah about the Glorious Quran which we need to contemplate on. The LIVE Proof of its protection and safe guarding is still a LIVING MIRACLE when a 7 year Muslim kid (non arabic)of even our days can memorize the whole Quran like millions of other Huffaz UNLIKE the other remnant scriptures not even 1/20th of it could be memorized by a Priest or a Rabbi or a pundit.


Though the Modern academic world normally ONLY ACCEPTS & CONSIDERS as GENUINE PROOF documents which are written by EYE witnesses , even IF taking this as the ONLY criteria still the Last updated scripture, The glorious Quran will still comfortably pass this test since (UNLIKE ALL OTHER OTHER SCRIPTURES some of it (not full) were written 60 years later by non eye witnesses and some do not know who wrote it ) since the Quran was compiled with 1000's of eye- ear witnesses who had SEEN AND listened those verses directly from the blessed lips of Prophet Muhammad :saws: and writing most of them simultaneously ie written proofs of manuscripts , parchments etc that were written by them during the life time of Prophet Muhammad :saws: himself. .

As the hadith about Abu Khuzaima ESPECIALLY MENTIONS that the two verses (9:128-129) of sura Tauba had written parchments proof ONLY FROM ABU KHUZAIMA RA which IMPLIES ALL OTHER parchments had MULTIPLE WRITTEN PROOFS (may be in 10's or 100's of written proofs ) . Just ASSUME that even if the written proof or parchments of those two verses of sura tauba was not available still its not a thing to worry since 100's or even 1000's of Sahabas (from 124000 Sahabas at the Arafa in the last Haj) had memorized the complete Quran by then and NOT to forget the Head of the team, The Young Zaid bin Thabbit was appointed in Medina by Prophet :saws: to learn hebrew to communicate to the Jews there and he did the job, Mashallah in just a fortnight , miraculously that illuminates the Calibre of this great Sahabi who was also the head of the team under Caliph Uthman during the first & final AFFIRMATION (not compilation) of the Quraishi dialect standard Quran using the same copy remaining with Hafza :RA: which was written one year after Prophet Muhammad's :saws: demise as those hadith point out too.

[OmAbdullah]

You did not know that there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent? And so - the need to standardise the Arabic into the recitation of the Prophet pbuh was initiated? DO you know how much of a difference there is between Maalik, and Malik? One means Owner and the other means King. These are not the same in intention. An Owner can never be questioned about his propery, because it is his to do what he wants with, but a King has to answer to the Owner, and only Allah is the Owner.

This is BASIC info bro. If you don't know what you are talking about, with respect, shut it!

My question from the respectable Muslim speakers was to give me any two Quraans from any part of the world which have the difference of "kabeer" and "katheer". You as a Muslim could help this matter for the sake of Allah's Pleasure by informing them about my question. But you instead started arguing on a subject which you, unfortunately, don't know.



Know that Allah is the Maalik and Allah is the Malik. But Allah used these great names in the surahs according to His Knowledge, Wisdom and Justice. So in the surah Al-Naas (An-Naas) Allah used the name Malik (Malik-i- nnas= king of the people) while with the Day of Judgment in surah Al-Faatihah, Allah used the name Maalik (Maalik-i Yawmiddeen= Owner of the Day of Judgment). So we must fear that Day a lot and must prepare for that Day.


Your saying "there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent" is a proof that the preservation of the Holy Quraan is mainly in written form because Maalik and Malik are quite different in writing and those who can read Arabic will not confuse the two words together. But when it comes to the memory then mistake is quite possible. I will try insha -Allah to prove that Quraan is not written from the memories of the Hufaaz (those who memorized it). Rather it was completely written from Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam as he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to dictate the Revelations to 40 or even more than 40 scribes at one and the same time. Then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to guide the scribes where to place the verses revealed later. So he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam arranged the whole Quraan. Then how is it possible that the parts of the Holy Quraan were lying here and there, some on papers etc. and some in the memories of the Muslims???



I will insha-Allah prove even from the work of the present hufaaz that Quraan is not mahfooz (preserved ) in the memories. See, the imams (many of them) removed bismillah from surah Al-Faatihah in their recitations although, بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
is the first aayah of the surah Al-Faatihah.


No one should give credit to the Ummah for preserving the Holy Quraan. The Quraan is preserved only and only by Allah especially in its written form where no one can remove the verse Bismilla... from any surah except surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) where Allah didn't reveal it.

[Scimitar]

you're emotional, pipe down.

[OmAbdullah]

:sl:

I 've bolded above all those points of great Hikmah about the Glorious Quran which we need to contemplate on. The LIVE Proof of its protection and safe guarding is still a LIVING MIRACLE when a 7 year Muslim kid (non arabic)of even our days can memorize the whole Quran like millions of other Huffaz UNLIKE the other remnant scriptures not even 1/20th of it could be memorized by a Priest or a Rabbi or a pundit.


Though the Modern academic world normally ONLY ACCEPTS & CONSIDERS as GENUINE PROOF documents which are written by EYE witnesses , even IF taking this as the ONLY criteria still the Last updated scripture, The glorious Quran will still comfortably pass this test since (UNLIKE ALL OTHER OTHER SCRIPTURES some of it (not full) were written 60 years later by non eye witnesses and some do not know who wrote it ) since the Quran was compiled with 1000's of eye- ear witnesses who had SEEN AND listened those verses directly from the blessed lips of Prophet Muhammad :saws: and writing most of them simultaneously ie written proofs of manuscripts , parchments etc that were written by them during the life time of Prophet Muhammad :saws: himself. .

As the hadith about Abu Khuzaima ESPECIALLY MENTIONS that the two verses (9:128-129) of sura Tauba had written parchments proof ONLY FROM ABU KHUZAIMA RA which IMPLIES ALL OTHER parchments had MULTIPLE WRITTEN PROOFS (may be in 10's or 100's of written proofs ) . Just ASSUME that even if the written proof or parchments of those two verses of sura tauba was not available still its not a thing to worry since 100's or even 1000's of Sahabas (from 124000 Sahabas at the Arafa in the last Haj) had memorized the complete Quran by then and NOT to forget the Head of the team, The Young Zaid bin Thabbit was appointed in Medina by Prophet :saws: to learn hebrew to communicate to the Jews there and he did the job, Mashallah in just a fortnight , miraculously that illuminates the Calibre of this great Sahabi who was also the head of the team under Caliph Uthman during the first & final AFFIRMATION (not compilation) of the Quraishi dialect standard Quran using the same copy remaining with Hafza :RA: which was written one year after Prophet Muhammad's :saws: demise as those hadith point out too.

Brother, Assalaamo alaikum


Keep strong and stead fast on your feet and don't hesitate in the least by the fabricated stories of the enemies of Islam.The Quraan was compiled by the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam in his life and he had placed a copy with Hafzah rAa. The lies always change but the Truth remains unchanged. I will point out to you the changes in the false forged story which is attached to Umar rAa. In the past this story said that Abu Bakar rAa put the Quraan with Hafzah rAa. But now in this thread I read in the post 16 of Aabiri-ssabeel that the Quraan compiled by Abu Bakar rAa remained with him until Allah took him and then it remained with Umar rAa until Allah took him, then it remained with Hafzah rAa.

So the previous statement is changed and more falsehood is invented.


Again, the saying about the last two verses of the surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) is another false and forged statement which was repeated with the story in the time of Uthmaan rAa. We know that Uthmaan rAa had made 7 copies from the complete Quraan that was with Hafzah rAa. He then sent those copies to the governors of the 7 Islamic states to make more copies from them for the people and he collected all other copies from the people and burnt them because those were written by the people themselves. It was intended that all Quraans must be of the same type exactly like the copy with Hafzah rAa. So each and every letter of Quraan was the same. Thus Quraan is preserved in the written form. But the enemies who will never be satisfied due to their jealousy, again said that two verses were missing at the time of Uthmaan rAa and those were searched for with the companions and finally were found with someone. Then the liars, story-makers forgot that according their own story a full Quraan was written and compiled at the time of Abu Bakar. Then from where the deficiency of verses appeared at the time of Uthmaan rAa? So the liars and fabricators will not stop but the Muslims should not be weak to follow them.

[talibilm]

Brother, Assalaamo alaikum


Keep strong and stead fast on your feet and don't hesitate in the least by the fabricated stories of the enemies of Islam.The Quraan was compiled by the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam in his life and he had placed a copy with Hafzah rAa. The lies always change but the Truth remains unchanged. I will point out to you the changes in the false forged story which is attached to Umar rAa. In the past this story said that Abu Bakar rAa put the Quraan with Hafzah rAa. But now in this thread I read in the post 16 of Aabiri-ssabeel that the Quraan compiled by Abu Bakar rAa remained with him until Allah took him and then it remained with Umar rAa until Allah took him, then it remained with Hafzah rAa.

So the previous statement is changed and more falsehood is invented.

Again, the saying about the last two verses of the surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) is another false and forged statement which was repeated with the story in the time of Uthmaan rAa. We know that Uthmaan rAa had made 7 copies from the complete Quraan that was with Hafzah rAa. He then sent those copies to the governors of the 7 Islamic states to make more copies from them for the people and he collected all other copies from the people and burnt them because those were written by the people themselves. It was intended that all Quraans must be of the same type exactly like the copy with Hafzah rAa. So each and every letter of Quraan was the same. Thus Quraan is preserved in the written form. But the enemies who will never be satisfied due to their jealousy, again said that two verses were missing at the time of Uthmaan rAa and those were searched for with the companions and finally were found with someone. Then the liars, story-makers forgot that according their own story a full Quraan was written and compiled at the time of Abu Bakar. Then from where the deficiency of verses appeared at the time of Uthmaan rAa? So the liars and fabricators will not stop but the Muslims should not be weak to follow them.

:sl: Sister

We are obliged to follow hadith as the info seen in them ? is'nt it , Sister ? Though that hadith that said the copy that was compiled under Abu Bakr :RA : was left with Umar :RA: and after him under the custody of his daughter and Ummul mumineen Hafsa :RA: have been noted for the past many years AFAIK. (No lies , except as seen in hadith , Allahu aalam) and It was later took over after her demise by Abdullah Ibn Umar :RA: and from him governor Marwan took over.

So i understand your concern & DOP (similarly every Brother , sister here are concerned too, Sister ) , but we have no way left except to accept or remain silent on things of DOP (diff of opinions) or else that could lead to greater fitna as to which hadith to follow ?? Fitna is worse than killing ( Quran)

But as I had reiterated above( I debated with a few apologetics) Proving NO BOOK ON THE FACE OF THIS GLOBE is as Protected , well documented as the glorious Quran ( Bart Erhman indirectly accepts that too) So there is nothing to worry when we accept those things that are clear cut from Sahih hadith , though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book

[OmAbdullah]

Sister

We are obliged to follow hadith as the info seen in them ? is'nt it , Sister ? Though that hadith that said the copy that was compiled under Abu Bakr :RA : was left with Umar :RA: and after him under the custody of his daughter and Ummul mumineen Hafsa :RA: have been noted for the past many years AFAIK. (No lies , except as seen in hadith , Allahu aalam) and It was later took over after her demise by
Abdullah Ibn Umar :RA: and from him governor Marwan took over.

So i understand your concern & DOP (similarly every Brother , sister here are concerned too, Sister ) , but we have no way left except to accept or remain silent on things of DOP (diff of opinions) or else that could lead to greater fitna as to which hadith to follow ?? Fitna is worse than killing ( Quran)

But as I had reiterated above( I debated with a few apologetics) Proving NO BOOK ON THE FACE OF THIS GLOBE is as Protected , well documented as the glorious Quran ( Bart Erhman indirectly accepts that too) So there is nothing to worry when we accept those things that are clear cut from Sahih hadith , though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book

Wa Alaykum as-salaam


First important point is that Hadeeth means the saying, actions and approvals of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The saying attached to Umar and abu Bakar radi-ya-Allaho anhum cannot be given the name of Hadeeth.


This is very true that first, since long, I had read in the Tafheemul-Quraan that the copy was with hafzah rAa (given to her by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam). Even recently it was said that the copy was placed with Hafzah rAa by Abu Bakar rAa. I remember that we had raised the question as to why did Abu Bakar rAa place it with Hafzah rAa instead of Ayishah rAa? After that I am surprised to see for the first time in the post 16 of this thread that it remained with Abu Bakar rAa......


Your last sentence says: “though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book”


That means there are two contradictory statements before you and you as a Muslim have to decide with wisdom and justice as to which of the two statements can be true. Obviously, only one of them can be true and the other one will be false. Now you must see which one is in accordance with the Holy Quraan and /or the Sunnah.
The Quraan announced the perfection of Deen and the Messenger of Allah (salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam) told the whole Ummah that: “he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving among us two things: One was the Book of Allah and the second was his Sunnah. Whoever holds fast to these two, will never go astray.”



Now on which side you are going to stand, on the side of Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam or on the side of the fabricaters???

Here we all are tested and thus we all, as Muslims, must choose Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. No matter if our friends or relatives are on the false side and insist us to be on their side.

Thus you should seek the pleasure of Allah. You, knowingly, shouldn’t make the true statement ambiguous for the sake of pleasure of friends/relatives.

It may be that they get impressed by the truth and accept it. Otherwise, they may be harmed by the false statement of the forgers and the ambiguity on your part. So on the Day of Judgment they will complain to Allah that you didn’t guide them clearly!

[AabiruSabeel]

Your saying "there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent" is a proof that the preservation of the Holy Quraan is mainly in written form because Maalik and Malik are quite different in writing and those who can read Arabic will not confuse the two words together. But when it comes to the memory then mistake is quite possible.

That is simply not true. There are 7 authentic qira'ah of Qur'an. Allah :swt: Himself revealed the Qur'an in 7 different Ahruf. The messenger of Allah, Muhammad :saws: said:

"‏ أَقْرَأَنِي جِبْرِيلُ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ - عَلَى حَرْفٍ فَرَاجَعْتُهُ فَلَمْ أَزَلْ أَسْتَزِيدُهُ فَيَزِيدُنِي حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ ‏"

Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation). [Muslim]

If you to see some of the different recitations by yourself, please see this page: http://www.quranflash.com/home?en
As for Maaliki and Maliki, see the difference here: http://www.quranflash.com/books/Qaloon and compare it with http://www.quranflash.com/books/MedinaOld/?en or with http://www.quranflash.com/books/Urdu15/?en

First one has

, second

and third

All three of them have the same Arabic letters, Meem Laam and Kaaf. Check the link http://corpus.quran.com/grammar.jsp?chapter=1&verse=4

The only difference is whether you elongate meem as Maaliki or simply recite it as Maliki. Both the recitations are from the Prophet :saws:, and both of them revealed by Allah :swt: Himself.

The Quraan was compiled by the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam in his life and he had placed a copy with Hafzah rAa.

I have yet to receive any source for this statement.

The lies always change but the Truth remains unchanged. I will point out to you the changes in the false forged story which is attached to Umar rAa. In the past this story said that Abu Bakar rAa put the Quraan with Hafzah rAa. But now in this thread I read in the post 16 of Aabiri-ssabeel that the Quraan compiled by Abu Bakar rAa remained with him until Allah took him and then it remained with Umar rAa until Allah took him, then it remained with Hafzah rAa.

So the previous statement is changed and more falsehood is invented.

Which previous statement are you speaking of? Nobody said that Abu Bakr :ra: placed it with Hafsa :raha:. See the Hadith quoted above, nobody is saying anything that goes against that Hadith except you.

The only falsehood here is your statement that someone in the past there was some story. Where was that story?

Again, the saying about the last two verses of the surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) is another false and forged statement which was repeated with the story in the time of Uthmaan rAa. We know that Uthmaan rAa had made 7 copies from the complete Quraan that was with Hafzah rAa. He then sent those copies to the governors of the 7 Islamic states to make more copies from them for the people and he collected all other copies from the people and burnt them because those were written by the people themselves. It was intended that all Quraans must be of the same type exactly like the copy with Hafzah rAa. So each and every letter of Quraan was the same. Thus Quraan is preserved in the written form. But the enemies who will never be satisfied due to their jealousy, again said that two verses were missing at the time of Uthmaan rAa and those were searched for with the companions and finally were found with someone. Then the liars, story-makers forgot that according their own story a full Quraan was written and compiled at the time of Abu Bakar. Then from where the deficiency of verses appeared at the time of Uthmaan rAa? So the liars and fabricators will not stop but the Muslims should not be weak to follow them.

Please read the Hadith again. There was no deficiency of verses found during the time of Uthmaan :ra:. Where did you get that from? Are you making up stories? Or putting words in others mouths?

The Hadith clearly speaks of the time of compilation during Abu Bakr :ra:, not Uthmaan :ra:.

This is very true that first, since long, I had read in the Tafheemul-Quraan that the copy was with hafzah rAa (given to her by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam). Even recently it was said that the copy was placed with Hafzah rAa by Abu Bakar rAa. I remember that we had raised the question as to why did Abu Bakar rAa place it with Hafzah rAa instead of Ayishah rAa? After that I am surprised to see for the first time in the post 16 of this thread that it remained with Abu Bakar rAa......

Can you show us the reference from Tafheemul Quraan that a copy of the Qur'an was kept with Hafsah :raha: by the Prophet :saws: himself? I am sure you will not find it.

This is what is written in the introduction of Tafheemul Quraan. You can also read it online here on Page 29.

If you have a copy of Tafheemul Quraan and you find something else written there, please share the scans.

Now on which side you are going to stand, on the side of Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam or on the side of the fabricaters???

It is clear who is fabricating stories here. We have all provided authentic references for every statement we make. And we have also asked you to provide references for your statements, but until now there are no references given.

[talibilm]

Wa Alaykum as-salaam


First important point is that Hadeeth means the saying, actions and approvals of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The saying attached to Umar and abu Bakar radi-ya-Allaho anhum cannot be given the name of Hadeeth.


This is very true that first, since long, I had read in the Tafheemul-Quraan that the copy was with hafzah rAa (given to her by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam). Even recently it was said that the copy was placed with Hafzah rAa by Abu Bakar rAa. I remember that we had raised the question as to why did Abu Bakar rAa place it with Hafzah rAa instead of Ayishah rAa? After that I am surprised to see for the first time in the post 16 of this thread that it remained with Abu Bakar rAa......


Your last sentence says: “though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book”


That means there are two contradictory statements before you and you as a Muslim have to decide with wisdom and justice as to which of the two statements can be true. Obviously, only one of them can be true and the other one will be false. Now you must see which one is in accordance with the Holy Quraan and /or the Sunnah.
The Quraan announced the perfection of Deen and the Messenger of Allah (salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam) told the whole Ummah that: “he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving among us two things: One was the Book of Allah and the second was his Sunnah. Whoever holds fast to these two, will never go astray.”



Now on which side you are going to stand, on the side of Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam or on the side of the fabricaters???

Here we all are tested and thus we all, as Muslims, must choose Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. No matter if our friends or relatives are on the false side and insist us to be on their side.

Thus you should seek the pleasure of Allah. You, knowingly, shouldn’t make the true statement ambiguous for the sake of pleasure of friends/relatives.

It may be that they get impressed by the truth and accept it. Otherwise, they may be harmed by the false statement of the forgers and the ambiguity on your part. So on the Day of Judgment they will complain to Allah that you didn’t guide them clearly!

:sl:

Sister,

Just wanted to say something but i thinks its already spoken on the previous post

I do not conclude any matter of such utmost importance WITHOUT proper daleel CLEAR CUT from Sahih hadith , not even from authors of tafheemul Quran or even Ibn Kathir or Qurtubi '' IF THEY DO NOT GIVE DALEEL FROM SAHIH HADITH'' You should also see my post on abrogation in ummah.

So your refering as some one said or some post said does not carry any value so kindly give a link or Sahih hadith on this matter that the Copy of the Quran was placed under Hafsa RA before the demise of Prophet :saws: Yes we are OBLIGED to Please ONLY ALLAH ALONE, is our EEMAAN.

And do not suspect any Sahabas (particularly ashara mubashara) why they did like that or this ?? ( why not Aisha RA ? ) which is a trick of Shaitan & A BIG SIN and the Caliphs have Allah's given permission to do whatever they deemed was fit for the ummah. ( you & me were not there to see what the circumstance, situation was like for their decisions) When we have to give 70 excuses for a Muslim Brother than how many excuses should you give to your Calipha RA ?

The hadith of last sermon (bolded red) , kindly do not quote your own words but quote the direct hadith which is better to know the right text, context. jazakllah Khair

[talibilm]

That is simply not true. There are 7 authentic qira'ah of Qur'an. Allah :swt: Himself revealed the Qur'an in 7 different Ahruf. The messenger of Allah, Muhammad :saws: said:

"‏ أَقْرَأَنِي جِبْرِيلُ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ - عَلَى حَرْفٍ فَرَاجَعْتُهُ فَلَمْ أَزَلْ أَسْتَزِيدُهُ فَيَزِيدُنِي حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ ‏"

Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation). [Muslim]

:sl: Brother

Seven dialects and the rest of your post is agreed as correct AS PER SAHIH HADITHS available to us , except the below one i have my reservations & doubts and jazakallah in advance if you can clear them with daleel from Sahih hadith

If you to see some of the different recitations by yourself, please see this page: http://www.quranflash.com/home?en
As for Maaliki and Maliki, see the difference here: http://www.quranflash.com/books/Qaloon and compare it with http://www.quranflash.com/books/MedinaOld/?en or with http://www.quranflash.com/books/Urdu15/?en

First one has

, second

and third

All three of them have the same Arabic letters, Meem Laam and Kaaf. Check the link http://corpus.quran.com/grammar.jsp?chapter=1&verse=4

The only difference is whether you elongate meem as Maaliki or simply recite it as Maliki. Both the recitations are from the Prophet :saws:, and both of them revealed by Allah :swt: Himself.

Brother, I have a view that THESE differences MAINLY rose or started before (vowels were placed after nearly 100 years after the Uthmanic Script) vowels came inside the Quran since those who have got a copied copy of Uthman RA but not a reciter could have elongated or reduced its reading in some words as these 'Maliki or maaliki) as still they have near meanings . Because we know when Uthman :RA: when he sent those copies to various places with the reciters still they did not have those Vowels (for pronunciation) on them UNTILL THEY WERE ADDED A CENTURY LATER for avoiding SUCH DIFFERENCES LIKE YOU SAY ABOVE, AROSE & ALSO TO HELP THE NON ARABS PRONOUNCE IT RIGHT. So its possible some have added those vowels as per their own recitations before .Though those tabeins who would have listened from the reciters would have corrected themselves (iF in case they had any pronunciation mistake) and those NEW MUSLIMS or far away , say in Africa, who just saw '' the copied '' copy ie 2 or 3rd 3rd copy of Uthman :RA: but did not receive a reciter (teacher) could have come to their own conclusion of elongating it to Maaliki or Maliki etc since they still have NEAR meanings could have given raise to such different recitations -copies. Though Muslims attribute differences to hafs & warsh recitations but am not sure when this started ? ie after Prophet :saws: or during his presence. though 95 % of Muslims follow the hafs which is the same of the most of the sahabas.


So kindly see you find a clear cut Proof that Prophet :saws: did read in both the ways as you have said. But its true The Quran came in 7 dialects (like American , British, Irish , Australian, Malaysian, Indian dialects in English ) since they were different tribes among Arabs so that all those Arabs who entered Islam understood The Quran well , memorized it well so that they became strong in EEMAAN , which is the basis and foundation for further propagation - dawah of Islam which Allah placed on them so Allah made it easy to them by the seven dialects at Start. But once Islam already became strong and spread far during the times of Caliph Uthman RA , by the will of Allah when the Caliph decided to make it into just one standard Quraishi dialect which was right for the whole ummah it was done so .

[AabiruSabeel]

:sl: Brother

Seven dialects and the rest of your post is agreed as correct AS PER SAHIH HADITHS available to us , except the below one i have my reservations & doubts and jazakallah in advance if you can clear them with daleel from Sahih hadith



Brother, I have a view that THESE differences MAINLY rose or started before (vowels were placed after nearly 100 years after the Uthmanic Script) vowels came inside the Quran since those who have got a copied copy of Uthman RA but not a reciter could have elongated or reduced its reading in some words as these 'Maliki or maaliki) as still they have near meanings . Because we know when Uthman :RA: when he sent those copies to various places with the reciters still they did not have those Vowels (for pronunciation) on them UNTILL THEY WERE ADDED A CENTURY LATER for avoiding SUCH DIFFERENCES LIKE YOU SAY ABOVE, AROSE & ALSO TO HELP THE NON ARABS PRONOUNCE IT RIGHT. So its possible some have added those vowels as per their own recitations before .Though those tabeins who would have listened from the reciters would have corrected themselves (iF in case they had any pronunciation mistake) and those NEW MUSLIMS or far away , say in Africa, who just saw '' the copied '' copy ie 2 or 3rd 3rd copy of Uthman :RA: but did not receive a reciter (teacher) could have come to their own conclusion of elongating it to Maaliki or Maliki etc since they still have NEAR meanings could have given raise to such different recitations -copies. Though Muslims attribute differences to hafs & warsh recitations but am not sure when this started ? ie after Prophet :saws: or during his presence. though 95 % of Muslims follow the hafs which is the same of the most of the sahabas.


So kindly see you find a clear cut Proof that Prophet :saws: did read in both the ways as you have said. But its true The Quran came in 7 dialects (like American , British, Irish , Australian, Malaysian, Indian dialects in English ) since they were different tribes among Arabs so that all those Arabs who entered Islam understood The Quran well , memorized it well so that they became strong in EEMAAN , which is the basis and foundation for further propagation - dawah of Islam which Allah placed on them so Allah made it easy to them by the seven dialects at Start. But once Islam already became strong and spread far during the times of Caliph Uthman RA , by the will of Allah when the Caliph decided to make it into just one standard Quraishi dialect which was right for the whole ummah it was done so .

:wasalam:

The 7 different recitations are available since the time of the Prophet :saws: himself.

It is recorded in the books that when Uthman :ra: made copies to be sent everywhere, he instructed those copies to be written in such a way that all 7 ahruf are preserved in it.

Please see these links for detailed explanation:
http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...on-uthman.html
http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...-abu-bakr.html

It says there:

The seven Ahruf were preserved in it. See Manahil al-‘Irfan 1/246-247

So evidently ‘Uthman –may Allah be pleased with him- was only looking to preserve all the valid recitations and do away with mistakes being made in them.

That means, he only destroyed those new scripts that had mistakes, which must have been written by people afterwards.


Another point to be considered is, Maliki recitation is not seen by only Qalun but by Al-Duri recitations as well. Not only that, Qalun lived in Madinah, while Al-Duri lived in Baghdad. So it is not correct to say that this difference was due to new Muslims not being able to hear anyone recite it correctly.

Moreover, both of them also have continuous chain of transmission for the recitations of the Quran going back to the Prophet :saws:.

This is the complete chain of Qalun written at the end of the Mushaf:

And this is for Al-Duri

It is important to note that the Qur'an and Sunnah, both of them have oral preservation first and then written preservation. Whenever the written copies were made, they were cross-checked with the Sahabah who had memorized the whole Qur'an to make sure that there are no mistakes in writing.



Below are the chains of narrations in English:

Qirâʾa from Madinah: The reading of Madinah known as the reading of Nâfiʿ Ibn Abî Naʿîm (more precisely Abû ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân Nâfiʿ Ibn ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân). Nâfiʿ died in 169 H. He reported from Yazîd Ibn al-Qaʿqâʿ and ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân Ibn Hurmuz al-'Araj and Muslim Ibn Jundub al-Hudhalî and Yazîd Ibn Român and Shaybah Ibn Nisâʾ. All of them reported from Abû Hurayrah and Ibn ʿAbbâs and ʿAbdallâh Ibn 'Ayyâsh Ibn Abî Rabî'ah al-Makhzûmî and the last three reported from Ubayy Ibn Kaʿb from the Prophet.

From Nâfiʿ, two major readings came to us: Warsh and Qâlûn.

Qirâʾa from Makkah: The reading of Ibn Kathîr (ʿAbdullâh Ibn Kathîr ad-Dârî): Ibn Kathîr died in 120 H. He reported from ʿAbdillâh Ibn Assa'ib al-Makhzûmî who reported from Ubayy Ibn Kaʿb (The companion of the Prophet). Ibn Kathîr has also reported from Mujâhid Ibn Jabr who reported from his teacher Ibn ʿAbbâs who reported from Ubayy Ibn Kaʿb and Zayd Ibn Thâbit and both reported from the Prophet.

Qirâʾa from Damascus: From ash-Shâm (Damascus), the reading is called after ʿAbdallâh Ibn ʿAamir. He died in 118 H. He reported from Abû ad-Dardâ' and al-Mughîrah Ibn Abî Shihâb al-Makhzûmî from ʿUthmân.

Qirâʾa from Basrah: The reading of Abû ʿAmr from Basrah: (According to al-Sabcah, the book of Ibn Mujâhid page 79, Abû ʿAmr is called Zayyan Abû ʿAmr Ibn al-ʿAlâʾ. He was born in Makkah in the year 68 and grew up at Kûfah.) He died at 154 H. He reported from Mujâhid and Saʿîd Ibn Jubayr and ʿIkrimah Ibn Khâlid al-Makhzûmî and ʿAtâʾ Ibn Abî Rabâh and Muhammad Ibn ʿAbd ar-Rahmân Ibn al-Muhaysin and Humayd Ibn Qays al-ʿA'raj and all are from Makkah. He also reported from Yazîd Ibn al-Qaʿqâʿ and Yazîd Ibn Rumân and Shaybah Ibn Nisâ' and all are from Madinah. He also reported from al-'Assan and Yahyâ Ibn Yaʿmur and others from Basrah. All these people took from the companions of the Prophet.

From him came two readings called as-Sûsi and ad-Dûrî.

Qirâʾa from Basrah: From Basrah, the reading known as Yaʿqûb Ibn Ishâq al-Hadramî the companion of Shuʿbah (again). He reported from Abû ʿAmr and others.

Qirâ'a from Kûfah: The reading of ʿĀsim Ibn Abî an-Najûd (ʿAasim Ibn Bahdalah Ibn Abî an-Najûd): He died in 127 or 128 H. He reported from Abû ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân as-Solammî and Zirr Ibn Hubaysh. Abû ʿAbd ar-Rahmân reported from ʿUthmân and ʿAlî Ibn Abî Tâlib and 'Ubayy (Ibn Kacb) and Zayd (Ibn Thâbit). And Zirr reported from Ibn Masʿud.

Two readings were reported from 'Asim: The famous one is Hafs, the other one is Shu'ba. Hafs was 'Asim's step-son and it is believed that he didn't differ from him in his reading of the Quran. 'Asim also retained the reading of his teacher Abu 'Abd al-Rahman al-Sulami and it reported that the latter had read the Quran out to the Commander of the Believers, 'Ali ibn Abi Talib. The case can therefore be made that the reading of Hafs is exactly the same as the reading of 'Ali which he inherited from the Prophet to the very last dot.

Qirâʾa from Kûfah: The reading of Hamzah Ibn Habîb (from Kûfah as well) Hamzah was born in the year 80 H and died in 156 H. He reported from Muhammad Ibn cAbd ar-Rahmân Ibn Abî Laylâ (who reads the reading of ʿAlî Ibn Abî Tâlib, according to the book of Ibn Mujâhid called al-Sabcah - The Seven - page 74) and Humrân Ibn A'yan and Abî Ishâq as-Sabî'y and Mansur Ibn al-Mu'tamir and al-Mughîrah Ibn Miqsam and Jacfar Ibn Muhammad Ibn Alî Ibn Abî Tâlib from the Prophet.

Qirâʾa from Kûfah: The reading of al-'Amash from Kûfah as well: He reported from Yahyâ Ibn Waththâb from 'Alqamah and al-'Aswad and 'Ubayd Ibn Nadlah al-Khuzâ'y and Abû ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân as-Sulamî and Zirr ibn Hubaysh and all reported from Ibn Mascud.

Qirâaa from Kûfah: The reading of Ali Ibn Hamzah al-Kisâ'i known as al-Kisâ'i from Kûfah. He died in 189 H. He reported from Hamzah (the previous one) and Iesâ Ibn Umar and Muhammad Ibn ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân Ibn Abî Laylâ and others.

[AabiruSabeel]

Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.

I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.

To answer this, here are the scans from four different Mushaf. The Ayah is from Surah Al-Ahzab, Ayah 68.

Hafs recitation (The most famous one everywhere)

Qaloon recitation

Al-Duri recitation

Warsh recitation

[talibilm]

PROOFS FOR VARIOUS DIALECTS EXISTING FROM SAHIH HADITH

Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 1848
The same hadith has been narrated by Abu Huraira, but instead of the word laghauta the word laghita has been used. Abu Zinad (one of the narrators) says that ''laghita '' is the dialect of Abu Huraira, whereas it is '' laghauta ''.


Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 178
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet intended to return home after the performance of the Hajj, and he saw Safiya standing at the entrance of her tent, depressed and sad because she got her menses. The Prophet said, "Aqra Halqa! --An expression used in the Quraish dialect--"You will detain us." The Prophet then asked (her), "Did you perform the Tawaf Al-Ifada on the Day of Sacrifice (10th of Dhul-Hijja)?" She said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Then you can leave (with us)."


Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 16 :: Hadith 116 Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik about the Qunut. Anas replied, "Definitely it was (recited)". I asked, "Before bowing or after it?" Anas replied, "Before bowing." I added, "So and so has told me that you had informed him that it had been after bowing." Anas said, "He told an untruth (i.e. "was mistaken," according to the Hijazi dialect). Allah's Apostle recited Qunut after bowing for a period of one month." Anas added, "The Prophet sent about seventy men (who knew the Quran by heart) towards the pagans (of Najd) who were less than they in number and there was a peace treaty between them and Allah's Apostles (but the Pagans broke the treaty and killed the seventy men). So Allah's Apostle recited Qunut for a period of one month asking Allah to punish them." So when Uthman :RA: 's main move was to bring a single standard copy of Quran in Quraishi dilaect , Allah aalam how seven dilaects were included there

NOTE : about those scans in previous post of those hafs, Qaloon (Roman ) , al duri(150-246AH) , warsh, the word kabeer meaning '' great'' and katheer meaning ''more-plenty'' did not make much difference in meaning and could be from dialectal difference OR did they mean the same in their respective dialects , as in the first hadith as laghuata & laghita though they sound a bit different . Does that mean different dialects of Quran still exists !! Allahu aaalam ,but still I will stick ONLY with hafs and as per my conscience those Qaloon FROM ROME or warsh words from readers deep Africa seems foreign and better avoided when you have the most followed hafs one as authorised and as INTENDED by Uthman :RA: in the Quraishi dialect

[AabiruSabeel]

NOTE : about those scans in previous post of those hafs, Qaloon (Roman ) , al duri(150-246AH) , warsh, the word kabeer meaning '' great'' and katheer meaning ''more-plenty'' did not make much difference in meaning and could be from dialectal difference OR did they mean the same in their respective dialects , as in the first hadith as laghuata & laghita though they sound a bit different . Does that mean different dialects of Quran still exists !! Allahu aaalam ,but still I will stick ONLY with hafs and as per my conscience those Qaloon FROM ROME or warsh words from readers deep Africa seems foreign and better avoided when you have the most followed hafs one as authorised and as INTENDED by Uthman :RA: in the Quraishi dialect

I don't think Qaloon is Roman. It is mentioned that he was born in Madinah in 120 AH and died in Madinah itself in 220 AH. His name is given as Abu Musa ‘Isa Ibn Mina al-Zarqi.

In fact, Hafs and his teacher 'Asim, both of them are from Kufa. The Hafs recitation only became common when it was made official by the Egyptian Sultan, Fuad I in 1923. Later it was also popularized by the King Fahd Quran printing complex at Madinah Munawwarah.

The Quraish recitation could be more closer to that of Ibn Kathir al-Makki (not to be confused with Ibn Kathir who wrote the Tafsir) as recited by his students Al-Buzzi and Qunbul.

Here is an audio sample of Qunbul recitation https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/ar/ih...any_Qonbol.mp3


The scans which I have posted above from different Mus-haf are all printed in Madinah Munawwarah at the King Fahd Qur'an printing complex.

So when Uthman :RA: 's main move was to bring a single standard copy of Quran in Quraishi dilaect , Allah aalam how seven dilaects were included there

If you remove the dots, then Katheera and Kabeera are written the same way. Maybe that is how he tried to accommodate them together.

There is also one Hadith which indicates that whenever he found a contradiction, he kept the Quraish dialect and discarded the others.

Narrated Anas bin Malik :ra: :

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman :ra: came to `Uthman :ra: at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa :ra: was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to `Uthman :ra:, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So `Uthman :ra: sent a message to Hafsa :raha: saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa :raha: sent it to `Uthman :ra:. `Uthman :ra: then ordered Zaid bin Thabit :ra:, `Abdullah bin AzZubair :ra:, Sa`id bin Al-As :ra: and `AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham :ra: to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. `Uthman :ra: said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, `Uthman :ra: returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa :raha:. `Uthman :ra: sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. [Bukhari]


Many scholars say that the Ahruf and Qira'ah are two different things. They say that only the Quraish dialect is currently available and that itself has 7 qira'ah within itself.

[OmAbdullah]

That is simply not true. There are 7 authentic qira'ah of Qur'an. Allah :swt: Himself revealed the Qur'an in 7 different Ahruf. The messenger of Allah, Muhammad :saws: said:

"‏ أَقْرَأَنِي جِبْرِيلُ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ - عَلَى حَرْفٍ فَرَاجَعْتُهُ فَلَمْ أَزَلْ أَسْتَزِيدُهُ فَيَزِيدُنِي حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ ‏"

Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation). [Muslim]

If you to see some of the different recitations by yourself, please see this page: http://www.quranflash.com/home?en
As for Maaliki and Maliki, see the difference here: http://www.quranflash.com/books/Qaloon and compare it with http://www.quranflash.com/books/MedinaOld/?en or with http://www.quranflash.com/books/Urdu15/?en





First one has

, second

and third

All three of them have the same Arabic letters, Meem Laam and Kaaf. Check the link http://corpus.quran.com/grammar.jsp?chapter=1&verse=4

The only difference is whether you elongate meem as Maaliki or simply recite it as Maliki. Both the recitations are from the Prophet :saws:, and both of them revealed by Allah :swt: Himself.




I have yet to receive any source for this statement.



Which previous statement are you speaking of? Nobody said that Abu Bakr :ra: placed it with Hafsa :raha:. See the Hadith quoted above, nobody is saying anything that goes against that Hadith except you.

The only falsehood here is your statement that someone in the past there was some story. Where was that story?



Please read the Hadith again. There was no deficiency of verses found during the time of Uthmaan :ra:. Where did you get that from? Are you making up stories? Or putting words in others mouths?

The Hadith clearly speaks of the time of compilation during Abu Bakr :ra:, not Uthmaan :ra:.



Can you show us the reference from Tafheemul Quraan that a copy of the Qur'an was kept with Hafsah :raha: by the Prophet :saws: himself? I am sure you will not find it.

This is what is written in the introduction of Tafheemul Quraan. You can also read it online here on Page 29.

If you have a copy of Tafheemul Quraan and you find something else written there, please share the scans.





It is clear who is fabricating stories here. We have all provided authentic references for every statement we make. And we have also asked you to provide references for your statements, but until now there are no references given.

I had read it in the Tafheemul-quraan long ago. it is very saddening that now many things have disappeared from it. Allah is my witness that I am truthful as far as I remember. But you are an open liar and an attacker on the preservation of the Holy Quraan. you are an accuser making false accusations on Allah, Allah's Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and on Allah's Final Book Quraan. Insha-Allah I am coming with proofs but do not close the thread like you had done in the past to hide the truth about your ignorance. You have cut 20 marks from my reputation now and 10 in the past i.e. total of 30. Thank you! Cut all of my reputation marks and make it zero, I don't care for it. Allah is the Giver of Honor and Allah is the Giver of humiliation. I trust Allah and I only care for Allah's Pleasure.

[AabiruSabeel]

I had read it in the Tafheemul-quraan long ago. it is very saddening that now many things have disappeared from it. Allah is my witness that I am truthful as far as I remember.

Once again you are speaking from emotions, not by facts.

If you had really read something like that then show us a scan or a picture from that book.

Remember, Tafheemul Quran was written in the 20th century by Maulana Abul A'laa Maududi, whereas we are giving you references from Sahih Bukhari. Do you think the words written by a 20th century scholar are more truthful than what is mentioned in the original Hadith books?

In any case, I have already posted the relevant scan from Tafheemul Quran which clearly shows that you have forgotten what you had read. The author has only said in Tafheemul Quran what is already stated in the Hadith. He has not misquoted anything, but you are simply associating things about him that he has not said.

ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

But you are an open liar and an attacker on the preservation of the Holy Quraan. you are an accuser making false accusations on Allah, Allah's Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and on Allah's Final Book Quraan. Insha-Allah I am coming with proofs but do not close the thread like you had done in the past to hide the truth about your ignorance.

Was it this thread: Textual corruption of the Qur'an?

It is still open. It was never closed. I can show you the Moderator log of that thread, and other mods can also see the moderator log and they can affirm that that thread was never closed.

Please do not make a fool of yourself by throwing such false accusations. Your memory is failing you. Please do not speak about anything if you are not sure about it.

You have cut 20 marks from my reputation now and 10 in the past i.e. total of 30. Thank you! Cut all of my reputation marks and make it zero, I don't care for it. Allah is the Giver of Honor and Allah is the Giver of humiliation. I trust Allah and I only care for Allah's Pleasure.

I have given you negative rep for posting falsehood. Any member has the right to give positive rep or negative rep to anyone's post depending on the post content. I do not have anything against you, or anyone else here. I am simply posting facts with references and you are being too stubborn to acknowledge them. Instead, you keep narrating something that you do not even remember properly.

Please, consult a proper scholar, whoever you like. They will surely tell you that you are mistaken. A person is never too old to learn, and learning stops the day when someone starts thinking that he or she knows better than others.

[Insaanah]

:salam:
Sister UmmAbdullah, do you read Urdu?
Tafheem ul Qur’an was completed and first published in 1972. This is a screenshot from the muqaddamah of one of the early printings of Tafheem ul Qur’an in the 1970’s:

[OmAbdullah]

Qur’an Preservation Efforts During the Prophet’s Lifetime

Icraa.org/Quran-preservation-efforts-prophets-lifetime/


3.2.2 Qur’an writing and compilation sessions


There is evidence that it was not only individually that people wrote the Qur’an in front of the Prophet rather there used to be sessions in which rather large number of people copied and compiled the Qur’anic text in his presence..عن ابن عباس قال: ” كانت المصاحفلا تباع، كان الرجل يأتي بورقة عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فيقوم الرجل فيحتسبفيكتب، ثم يقوم آخر فيكتب حتى يفرغ من المصحف

“Ibn ‘Abbas stated:

“The masahif were not sold. A person would come to the Prophet,may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, with a parchment and some one would stand and write it for him voluntarily. Then another person would stand up and write until the mushaf was complete.”^[23]


In another report we read; عن زيد بن ثابت، قال: كنا عندرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نؤلف القرآن من الرقاعZaid bin Thabit said: “We were with the Messenger of Allah collecting the Qur’an on pieces of cloth.”^[24]Mark the plural pronouns here. This shows multiple people used to sit in the company of the Prophet and compile the Qur’anic verses on parchments. Moreover, this tells us that not only were the verses written as and when revealed; they were also compiled in their specified order with the instructions of the Prophet.


al-Bayhaqi writes;وإنما أراد تأليف ما نزل منالآيات المتفرقة، في سورتها وجمعها فيها بإشارة من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

“What is meant is the compilation and collection of different revealed verses into surahs according to the instruction of the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.”^[25]

3.2.2The Prophet’s encouragement for writing the Qur’an


The reason for large number of people sitting with the Prophet and compiling the Qur’anic verses (revealed up to that time) and making copies of the same voluntarily for others is that the Prophet encouraged the people to write the Qur’an and leave it after them for the next generations. Mark the following narration:
عن أبي هريرة، قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: إنمما يلحق المؤمن من عمله وحسناته بعد موته علما علمه ونشره، وولدا صالحا تركه،ومصحفا ورثه، أو مسجدا بناه، أو بيتا لابن السبيل بناه، أو نهرا أجراه،
أو صدقةأخرجها من ماله في صحته وحياته، يلحقه من بعد موته


It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: “The Messenger of Allah said: ‘The rewards of the good deeds that will reach a believer after his death are: Knowledge which he taught and spread; a righteous son whom he leaves behind; a copy of the Qur’an that he leaves as a legacy; a mosque that he built; a house that he built for way farers; a canal that he dug; or charity that he gave during his life time when he was in good health. These deeds will reach him after his death.’”^[26]It is thus clear that blessed Prophet had the clear motive of not only having the complete Qur’an written but also to get the people make and acquire Qur’anic manuscripts and leave it behind them as heir looms. Such an arrangement had to be made to see what is now achieved.



4. Qur’anic Masahif were well spread during the life of the Prophet


The efforts of the Prophet in getting the whole Qur’an written were greatly successful. Even though there was no official complete copy of the Qur’an yet many companions had varying sizes of personal masahif. In fact the masahif of the Qur’an had become so common in the time of the Prophet that he had to issue special instructions regarding them. For instance:

عن عبد الله بن عمر رضي اللهعنهما: أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نهى أن يسافر بالقرآن إلى أرض العدوNarrated ‘Abdullah bin‘Umar: “Allah’s Messenger forbade the people to travel to a hostile country carrying (copies of) the Quran.”^[27]

Likewise, there is evidence for the manuscripts of the Qur’an in the instruction of the blessed Prophet to Hakim bin Hizam when he sent him to Yemen as a governor. He said:لا تمس القرآن إلا وأنت طاهر

“Do not touch the Qur’an except when you are in the state of purity.”^[28]

At one stage the Qur’anic manuscripts were so much wide spread that Prophet warned people against laxity in memorizing and practicing upon it.
عن عبد العزيز بن رفيع،قال: دخلت أنا وشداد بن معقل، على ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما، فقال له شداد بن معقل:أترك النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من شيء؟ قال: «ما ترك إلا ما بين الدفتين» قال:ودخلنا على محمد ابن الحنفية، فسألناه، فقال: «ما ترك إلا ما بين الدفتين»

Narrated ‘Abdul-‘Azeez bin Rufai’: “Shaddad bin Ma’qil and I entered upon Ibn ‘Abbas. Shaddad bin Ma’qil asked him, ‘Did the Prophet leave anything (besides the Qur’an)?’ He replied, ‘He did not leave anything except what is between the two bindings (of the Qur’an).’ Then we visited Muhammad bin al-Hanafiyyah and asked him (the same question). He replied, ‘The Prophet did not leave except what is between the bindings (of the Qur’an).’”^[32]************************************************** **********************************

That means : the Quraan was compiled.

In fact the important point is that Quraan is preserved in full and Allah has preserved it. But I don't understand why the enemies again and again raise this question of the compilation of the Holy Quraan? Why are they not satisfied with the fact that the Quraan is miraculously preserved and the enemies, in spite of their hate for it, could not change it even in its single letter?

[Insaanah]

From the same webpage you have quoted points 3 and 4 from above, this is point no 6 if you continue reading the page, sister UmmAbdullah:

“6. Claim that the Qur’an was not written completely during the Prophet’s time

Some claim that the Qur’an was not written in full during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet but this is false because the entire Qur’an was indeed written with the supervision of the blessed Prophet though it was not compiled into one collection. This is testified by the statement of Zaid bin Thabit, one of the chief scribes. He said:

قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

“The Prophet passed away while the Qur’an was yet not gathered in anything.”[33]

Clearly the word used here is jumi‘a which means ‘gathered’ and not ‘written.’

The wisdom behind the fact that Qur’an was completely written but not compiled at one place during the life of the blessed Prophet is explained by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH). He said:

إنما لم يجمع القرآن في المصحف لما كان يترقبه من ورود ناسخ لبعض أحكامه أو تلاوته فلما انقضى نزوله بوفاته ألهم الله الخلفاء الراشدين ذلك وفاء بوعده الصادق بضمان حفظه على هذه الأمة فكان ابتداء ذلك على يد الصديق بمشورة عمر

“The Messenger of Allah – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him – did not gather the Qur’an in a mushaf because he had to wait if there was some abrogation of some commands or recitation but when he died and the revelation ceased (and thus abrogation as well); Allah, to fulfill his True Commitment of preservation (of Qur’an) for this Ummah, put this thought into the hearts of the Righteous Caliphs. Then this great task was undertaken by Abu Bakr on the advice of ‘Umar.”[34]

Truly, this should conclusively prove that the Qur’an was preserved and compiled during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet – upon him is the peace and blessings of Almighty Allah.”

http://icraa.org/quran-preservation-...hets-lifetime/

[Insaanah]

The problem might be, that the Quran is being thought of in the conventional sense of a book. i.e. if it wasn’t all collected in one volume, it wasn’t preserved properly, naoothubillah.

Allah promised to preserve the Quran. And He did. It was all written during the Prophets lifetime. The prophet :saws: had told what order the Surahs were to go in. Many companions, as in the page above you’ve quoted from, did have large portions in their own personal masahif (the collections of parchments the Quran was written on). But no one had all of it, as they were revealed at different places and times, when different people were around the Prophet :saws:. The Quran was completely revealed, recorded in hearts and in writing, and its order elucidated. It was already fully preserved.

Our modern day notion is that it should have been a book like how we know today, at that time, for it to be preserved. But that is not the case. The companions wanted to safeguard it for the generations to come, so Allah put into their hearts, that this should be done, as part of His plan to preserve the Quran.

The scholars agree on this, there is lots of evidence from statements of the Sahaba radiyallahu anhum recorded in Saheeh collections. Yes, Allah says in the Quran, dhaalikal kitaabu. It was also referred to as kitaab even in some Makki Surahs when it was not yet a kitaab in the conventional sense. The prophet :saws: was told “Iqra” even when there was not yet anything to read or recite. But this clearly doesn’t mean that it was a book in one volume.

Even in the muqaddamah to Tafheem, Maulana Maududi says that this book should not be thought of in any way as in the conventional sense of a book.

[AabiruSabeel]

I sincerely apologise for any harsh words towards anyone. The above post by sister Insaanah seems to have perfectly summarised the whole topic. :jz:

I don't feel I should continue posting on this thread to avoid any further misunderstanding.

:w:

[OmAbdullah]

From the same webpage you have quoted points 3 and 4 from above, this is point no 6 if you continue reading the page, sister UmmAbdullah:

“6. Claim that the Qur’an was not written completely during the Prophet’s time

Some claim that the Qur’an was not written in full during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet but this is false because the entire Qur’an was indeed written with the supervision of the blessed Prophet though it was not compiled into one collection. This is testified by the statement of Zaid bin Thabit, one of the chief scribes. He said:

قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

“The Prophet passed away while the Qur’an was yet not gathered in anything.”[33]

Clearly the word used here is jumi‘a which means ‘gathered’ and not ‘written.’

The wisdom behind the fact that Qur’an was completely written but not compiled at one place during the life of the blessed Prophet is explained by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH). He said:

إنما لم يجمع القرآن في المصحف لما كان يترقبه من ورود ناسخ لبعض أحكامه أو تلاوته فلما انقضى نزوله بوفاته ألهم الله الخلفاء الراشدين ذلك وفاء بوعده الصادق بضمان حفظه على هذه الأمة فكان ابتداء ذلك على يد الصديق بمشورة عمر

“The Messenger of Allah – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him – did not gather the Qur’an in a mushaf because he had to wait if there was some abrogation of some commands or recitation but when he died and the revelation ceased (and thus abrogation as well); Allah, to fulfill his True Commitment of preservation (of Qur’an) for this Ummah, put this thought into the hearts of the Righteous Caliphs. Then this great task was undertaken by Abu Bakr on the advice of ‘Umar.”[34]

Truly, this should conclusively prove that the Qur’an was preserved and compiled during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet – upon him is the peace and blessings of Almighty Allah.”

http://icraa.org/quran-preservation-...hets-lifetime/

The difference between you and me is that I give importance to the words of Allah and His Final Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam while you throw their words at your backs and choose the wrong interpretation by some common people. Again and again the words of Zaid bin Thabit and of the other companions are given for proof of the compiling of the Quraan during the lifetime of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam but you just pass over them to choose the opposite. For e.g. I chose the following statement:


Narrated ‘Abdul-‘Azeezbin Rufai’: “Shaddad bin Ma’qil and I entered upon Ibn ‘Abbas. Shaddad binMa’qil asked him, ‘Did the Prophet leave anything (besides the Qur’an)?’ Hereplied, ‘He did not leave anything except what is between the two bindings (ofthe Qur’an).’ Then we visited Muhammad bin al-Hanafiyyah and asked him (thesame question). He replied, ‘The Prophet did not leave except what is betweenthe bindings (of the Qur’an).’”^[32]************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *****************

I chose the above from the two contradictory statements because the above is according to the Quraan and Hadeeth (" I am leaving two things among you, the BOOK of Allah and mi Sunnah......).

But you are rejecting that Truth, so you all must do double check on your eemaan.

[OmAbdullah]

The Qur'an is a unique book. It is the words of Allah :swt: Himself. It was revealed on the heart of the Prophet :saws:.

It is one of the miracles of the Qur'an that it wasn't sent down as written book. Written scriptures can be tampered with, as have happened with all previous scriptures. But Allah :swt: preserved the Qur'an by a unique method, memorization and oral recitation.

Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala says:

وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿١٩٢﴾ نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ ﴿١٩٣﴾ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ ﴿١٩٤﴾ بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ ﴿١٩٥﴾ـ

And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
In a clear Arabic language. [26:192-195]

Previous scriptures were in written from yet they were corrupted. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it is revealed on the heart of our Prophet :saws1: and it passes on from a heart to millions of hearts until Allah wills for it to be lifted near the last Day.

To preserve the complete Qur'an, Jibra'eel :as: used to recite the Qur'an to the Prophet :saws: every year during Ramadhan.

Narrated Abu-Huraira :ra:

Gabriel used to repeat the recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet :saws: once a year, but he repeated it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet :saws: used to stay in I'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramadan), but in the year of his death, he stayed in I'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari]

As we can see from the above Hadith, the Qur'an was completely finalized as we have it now during the last year of the Prophet :saws:. Since then, there has been no additions or subtractions.


The Qur'an was completely memorized by heart by several companions of the Prophet :saws: during his lifetime. It was also written down completely during his lifetime itself but the written parchments were scattered among the companions.

During the time of first Khalifah, Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq :ra:, the written parchments were compiled together in a book form, commonly known as مصحف MusHaf. During the compilation, each written verse was confirmed by at least two companions who had it memorized and written during the Prophet's :saws: lifetime.

Then again, during the time of the third Khalifah, 'Uthman ibn 'Affan :ra:, Islam became widespread and people began reciting the Qur'an with a slight tint of their own dialects. In order to preserve the original dialect in which Qur'an was revealed, he :ra: ordered copies of the Qur'an in the original Quraish dialect to be made and distributed to all provinces, and asked other various dialects to be discarded.

It is important to note that we have several un-broken mutawatir chains of narration of the Qur'an present even until now.



Difference between Qur'an and MusHaf

Most people do not know the difference between these two terms. They may not have even come across the words mushaf (pronounced as mos-Haf) before. This is the reason why they confuse between the two and automatically assume that the MusHaf is itself the Qur'an.


The Qur'an is the actual words of Allah revealed on the prophet :saws:. It is the recitation, the actual recited words and Ayaat and Suwar (pl. of Surah), consisting of 114 Surah in total.

Whereas, the musHaf is the “compiled, written pages of the Qur’an.” In other words, the term “Qur'an” refers to the specific “revelation that was read to Prophet Muhammad” whereas the term “mushaf” denotes the “written form” of that revelation.

Each mushaf follows a particular “Qira’a (reading)” of the Qur’an. A “reading” is a way of writing or pronouncing the Qur’anic text. There are seven readings of the Qur’an that are considered authoritative.

A mushaf may be written using any of a number of different Arabic scripts. For instance, one mushaf may be written using the Kufi script and another using Thulth.

Furthermore, Arabic scripts developed over time, which means older mushafs that were written using the same script look different from new ones. For instance, the use of diacritical marks (dots above or under letters), which is known as “i’jam,” and the use of voweling marks (signs representing vowels), which is known as “tashkil,” were both introduced later into Arabic scripts, so early mushafs did not have them. The availability of a number of readings and scripts means that different mushafs may look differently.


All mushafs have the same organization of chapters and the verses within each chapter. For instance, every mushaf starts with the chapter of “al-Fatiha (Opening)” and ends with the chapter of “an-Nas (people).” However, chapters and verses are not listed in the mushaf in the chronological order of their revelation. For instance, the first verses of the Qur’an that were revealed to the Prophet are from chapter 96 in the mushaf.
This is why there is only one Qur’an but different mushafs. But the differences between those mushafs are minimal, as they are written, compiled records of the one and same Qur’an.



In conclusion, the Qur'an was complete as an orally recited book during the lifetime of the prophet :saws:, and was written down on several parchments and their copies with several different companions, but it wasn't compiled in a mushaf form that we see today. The first mushaf was prepared during the time of Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq :ra:.


Definitions and explanation taken from http://www.quranicstudies.com/quran/...an-and-mushaf/

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Is the dispute here about the material used for writing the Quraan on – if so then I will stop taking part in this argument because this is just a minor point?


In fact, I used the words leather which means the animal skin. As we always read that at that time paper was not available so writing was done on flat bones, bark of trees, and animal skin. Allah knows about the best material available then to be used as sheets to write the Holy Quraan on them and then to give it the shape of a Perfect Book. In my understanding that could be the animal skin. If I am wrong then I hope that Allah will forgive me because I didn’t lie upon the Prophet (SAW). But you are certainly the one lying upon Allah and Allah’s Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.


You claim that Abu Bakar (RA) organized and managed the writing and compiling of the Holy Quraan. Then what was the material that Abu Bakar (RA) used for the same purpose? He became Caliph right after the passing away of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and he ruled only two and a half years. In that short time no paper was formed and no big changes (industrialization!) had happened. So it means that he used the same material which could be used by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. But you are not accepting the truth that the Prophet (SAW) prepared and left us with a PERFECT COMPLETE BOOK OF THE HOLY QURAAN.


The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam while departing from this world announced to the whole Ummah that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving behind him two things among us: The Book of Allah and his Sunnah, whoever holds fast to these two will never go astray (see this hadeeth in Muslim).

Now you claim that when he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam passed away he left bits of the Quraanic verses scattered here and there, some on bones, some on barks, and some in the memories of the various Muslims at that time and to those scattered bits he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam gave the name of a Book left behind him in the Ummah for the purpose of taking guidance from those scattered bits?


Just out of the way, another thought, would any credible employee of any organization in any part of the world accept incomplete scattered work like the kind you accuse Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam with?

Does it make sense? Can a sound mind accept this manifest lie? Is this not a lie upon Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and upon Allah the Al-Quddoos who is High above any defects whatsoever?


Well Quraan was not the first Book to be written and compiled at that time. Bible and Tawrah were present as books even before the Holy Quraan. What was the material on which those books were written? Allah Ta'aala has always blessed mankind with all the necessities of life. So whatever the best material could be, I believe that the Prophet (SAW) would have chosen that best material for the writing and compiling the Holy Quraan. In my understanding, that it could be the animal skin / leather etc. but Allah Knows best about the material used for the grand purpose.


It is also likely that as a temporary immediate measure any available resource for writing down the revelations as they took place could have been used but the final copy would be in the form of a completed book completely organized. (the Final Quraan left by the Prophet (SAW) for us was not a collection of skin/leather, scrolls, bones, tree barks, etc. etc. as a “book”). Use your head.


And what!!!


Are the people changing the name of Quraan to Mas-haf?

And are they making different kinds of Quraan with the names Masa-hif? Are they trying to remove the name “Al-Qur’aan”?

No! NO!. This is an attack on the Preservation of the Holy Quraan in which you are with them.

The Hadeeth about the 7 ways is:

A companion was reciting a surah in his prayer. Umar (RA) heard him and found that his recitation was different. He took that Sahaabi to Allah’s Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and complained that the Sahaabi’s recitation was wrong. Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam advised him to recite. He recited and he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said that it was correct. Then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam advised Umar (RA) to recite the same – Umar (RA) recited and the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said that it was also correct. Then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam told them that Jibreel (AS) came to him and informed him about 7 different ways of the recitation of the Quraan (Allah knows best the words of His Messenger (SAW).


The hadeeth shows the 7 ways of recitation which is an oral thing. This hadeeth is a great Blessing for the ummah because people from different nations have different accents. Thus they are not forced to follow the accent of the Arabs. It is really very difficult for many people with different languages and accents to recite the Quraan exactly like the Arabs do. So if they cannot do then they can recite in an easier way as Allah All-Mighty gave us 7 different ways.


This hadeeth does NOT give the permission to fabricate many kinds of Quraans, to divide Quraan into 7 kinds and to change the name of the Quraan to “Mas-haf this” and “Mas-haf that”.


Unfortunately, such people are fighting against Allah while Allah is Very Powerful.

Allah has already informed us about such people and their accounting – Read the following verses of Surah Al Hijr, their English translation is as follows:
Surah Al-Hijr verses 89---93 (English translation):

89: And say, "Indeed, I am the clear warner" -


90: Just as We had revealed to the dividers (those who make divisions)


91: Those who broke the Qur'an into portions.

92: So by your Lord, We will surely question them all

93: About what they used to do.
************************************************** ******


These verses tell us about the accounting in the Hereafter of such dividers (of the Quraan). But they (the dividers) should not forget Allah’s Punishment here either, consider some examples:


I have heard of this name of “Mas-haf” for Quraan many years ago (from an Egyptian Muslimah). In this same Egypt a trouble has begun with no end in sight. Even recently some cruel kaafirs opened fire and began shooting Muslims while they were making Salaatil-Jumah in a Masjid!


Similarly, In Syria, students specializing in Deen in Ma’had al-Fatah (Ma’had Ash-shaam Al-Aali) were taught the tafseer of the Holy Quraan from a very strange tafseer. They also made a tafseer in grammatical language; it was taught and the purpose of the Holy Quraan (i.e. Admonition) was completely destroyed. They also taught philosophy in the Tawheed classes based on Aristotle’s work: A terrible fitnah has taken hold of this same Syria where people are killed in crowds and no end is coming to this fitnah.


May Allah Ta’aala protect us. O Muslims who truly believe in Allah All-Mighty and the Day of Judgement, take heed. Take a lesson from the present conditions of the ummah. Remember that Allah is All Powerful, is watching the servants and when Allah Catches a Zaalim, then no escape is possible for the Zaalim (the cruel transgressor).

So stop playing with the Book of Allah – you cannot defeat Allah, The Greatest, and if you are caught (May Allah Protect us) then you will have none to rescue you!!!.
See Surah Hood (Hud) Verse 102 (translation):

102: And thus is the seizure of your Lord when He seizes the cities while they are committing wrong. Indeed, His seizure is very painful and very severe.

[Insaanah]

:salamext:

I already mentioned about the usage of the word book in my above post.

“3. Nothing has been lost of what the Prophet left of the Qur’an

Narrated 'Abdul 'Aziz bin Rufai': Shaddad bin Ma'qil and I entered upon Ibn 'Abbas. Shaddad bin Ma'qil asked him, "Did the Prophet leave anything (besides the Qur'an)?" He replied. "He did not leave anything except what is between the two bindings (of the Qur'an)." Then we visited Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiyya and asked him (the same question). He replied, "The Prophet did not leave except what is between the bindings (of the Qur'an)."[7]

This hadith is categorical evidence that nothing was lost of the Qur’an because all that the Holy Prophet- peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- left for his people is what was put between the two bindings.”

http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...uran-loss.html

Abdul Aziz bin Rufai died in approx 130 Hijri
Abdullah bin Abbas :ra: died in about 65 Hijri which is about 55 years after the battle of Yamamah. The two of them could only have met during the latter period of Abdullah ibn Abbaas’s life. Abu Bakr Siddeeq :ra: died two years after the battle of Yamamah, two years after becoming khalifa, in 12 Hijri. The Quran was put into book form /bound volume before his death. So at the time of the above narration, the Quran had already been put into book form.

This statement of Abdullah ibn Rufai’s in no way contradicts what has been written above.

And Allah knows best.

[talibilm]

If you remove the dots, then Katheera and Kabeera are written the same way. Maybe that is how he tried to accommodate them together.

There is also one Hadith which indicates that whenever he found a contradiction, he kept the Quraish dialect and discarded the others.

Narrated Anas bin Malik :ra: :

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman :ra: came to `Uthman :ra: at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa :ra: was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to `Uthman :ra:, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So `Uthman :ra: sent a message to Hafsa :raha: saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa :raha: sent it to `Uthman :ra:. `Uthman :ra: then ordered Zaid bin Thabit :ra:, `Abdullah bin AzZubair :ra:, Sa`id bin Al-As :ra: and `AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham :ra: to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. `Uthman :ra: said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, `Uthman :ra: returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa :raha:. `Uthman :ra: sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. [Bukhari]





Many scholars say that the Ahruf and Qira'ah are two different things. They say that only the Quraish dialect is currently available and that itself has 7 qira'ah within itself.

:sl: Brother,

Jazakallah for intending sincerely to clear our doubts. My like

is ONLY for your above PORTION of your post (in quote) of this (sorry i he pasted you first para below and hand moved your last para here in the above quote for making my stance clear and )

This I had always believed as the language - words it itself Clear cut (Qirat is Qirat even among Thai Muslims here or else where and every where in India etc this word we had heard , followed , used from our childhood) as Qirat is ONLY RECITATION ( a method) while ahruf -7 ahruf dialects are different as proved from three hadith in post # 34 (more to be located inshallah from other collectors than Bukhari & Muslim)

So as you say by quoting that the appropriate hadith which said '' "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." ONLY IMPLIES , INFERS may be during the reaffirmation of The Caliph Uthman 7 dialects were included but Kept the Quraishi dialect as the Lead , OR the different dialects were AGAIN inserted later by some who did not like Uthman's standard Quraishi dialect policy since they thought it was more godly to keep them all or a few bits of them , Allahu aalam . But its NEVER RIGHT to disagree with the Caliph and not follow his INSTRUCTIONS and such a mistake can cause loss to Muslim ummah as seen in the case of Sana Scripts which were never burned as per the order of the Caliph but thrown in the water So consequently Wicked hypocrites reclaiming it and OVER WRITING it to create confusion in the muslim ummah and as also affirmed by their INTENT by hiding it on the roof of that oldest Sanaa Masjid untill it was just found decades ago.

I don't think Qaloon is Roman. It is mentioned that he was born in Madinah in 120 AH and died in Madinah itself in 220 AH. His name is given as Abu Musa ‘Isa Ibn Mina al-Zarqi.

In fact, Hafs and his teacher 'Asim, both of them are from Kufa. The Hafs recitation only became common when it was made official by the Egyptian Sultan, Fuad I in 1923. Later it was also popularized by the King Fahd Quran printing complex at Madinah Munawwarah.

The Quraish recitation could be more closer to that of Ibn Kathir al-Makki (not to be confused with Ibn Kathir who wrote the Tafsir) as recited by his students Al-Buzzi and Qunbul.

Here is an audio sample of Qunbul recitation https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/ar/ih...any_Qonbol.mp3


The scans which I have posted above from different Mus-haf are all printed in Madinah Munawwarah at the King Fahd Qur'an printing complex..

About Qaloon can you clear on this from wiki

Lessons on Qaloon Recitation - About Tajweed

www.abouttajweed.com/lessons_on_qaloon_recitation.htm

The Recitation of Qaloon 'an Naafi'. Imam Qaloon. His name was 'Isaa bin Meenaa and was nicknamed Aba Musaa. He was of Roman heritage. His Sheikh, Imam Naafi', nicknamed him Qaloon because of the quality of his qira'ah. The word Qaloon in the Roman language means “good.” He was born in 120 Al-Hijara and .........''






Hafs did not start from Egypt but from Abu ‘Amr Hafs Ibn Sulayman Ibn al-Mughirah Ibn Abi Dawud al-Asadi al-Kufi , who moved in to Mecca in around about 110 AH (little earlier than Warsh) though they were Basic recitations (there are more recitations than 7 and its natural to have so many seeing the vast use of Arabic )

And after hafs (95 %) warsh is also used in deep Africa but a point worthy to be noted is that though The Imaam of Warsh was born in Egypt Still Egypt gave MORE PREFERENCE and approved Hafs , shows that the today's hafs Quran widely used in most of all ME and in the sub continent is most close to the intention of Caliph Uthman's script though the differences in dialect will still linger in the Muslim ummah in the form of Warsh , Qaloon and al dhuri etc OR its just a matter of tajweed !! between Warsh, Qaloon and al dhuri as remarked in the above link.

[Scimitar]

@ Om Abdullah,

the appeal to emotion doesn't help you to make any valid points. Neither does using larger text ;)

[talibilm]

From the same webpage you have quoted points 3 and 4 from above, this is point no 6 if you continue reading the page, sister UmmAbdullah:

“6. Claim that the Qur’an was not written completely during the Prophet’s time

Some claim that the Qur’an was not written in full during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet but this is false because the entire Qur’an was indeed written with the supervision of the blessed Prophet though it was not compiled into one collection. This is testified by the statement of Zaid bin Thabit, one of the chief scribes. He said:

قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

“The Prophet passed away while the Qur’an was yet not gathered in anything.”[33]

Clearly the word used here is jumi‘a which means ‘gathered’ and not ‘written.’

:sl: Sister

Can you kindly specify which hadith is the above quote from ?? for our info

Though I do agree that Abu bakr RA did compile The Glorious Quran in one book (but with 7 dialects) after one year after the demise of Prophet :saws: as per those many CLEAR CUT hadith but what is your view from below hadith like this (sorry, i could not post in arabic)

Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 525
Narrated Qatada:
I asked Anas bin Malik: "Who collected the Qur'an at the time of the Prophet ?" He replied, "Four, all of whom were from the Ansar: Ubai bin Ka'b, Mu'adh bin Jabal, Zaid bin Thabit and Abu Zaid."



Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 526
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
When the Prophet died, none had collected the Qur'an but four persons;: Abu Ad-Darda'. Mu'adh bin Jabal, Zaid bin Thabit and Abu Zaid. We were the inheritor (of Abu Zaid) as he had no offspring .


Note : See 'none' here affirms this was a collection not just writing of a scribe , since scribes were more than four to nearly about 40 in various situations, in various places, in journey etc when the Quran was SUDDENLY revealed. So consquently such hadith including the hadiths '' between two bindings of the Quran '' and '' Prophet Face shines like the paper of the Quran '' etc creates view that the Glorious Quran was OFFICIALLY COLLECTED (by Jamat of Ummah ) under Khalifa , caliph Abu Bakr :RA: but Quran was also collected earlier by the four sahabas (infiradhi) individually, WHO WERE ALL ANSARS ( also CLEARLY pointed in the above hadith) WHILE THE MUHAJIR, QURAISH WHO HAVE BEEN VESTED, OBLIGED FROM HADITHS WITH THE DUTY TO CARRY OUT WITH THE CALIPHATE So They (muhajirs) under Abu Bakr RA had suddenly done this after the battle of Yamama where many huffaz were killed
@OmAbdullah

The wisdom behind the fact that Qur’an was completely written but not compiled at one place during the life of the blessed Prophet is explained by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH). He said:

إنما لم يجمع القرآن في المصحف لما كان يترقبه من ورود ناسخ لبعض أحكامه أو تلاوته فلما انقضى نزوله بوفاته ألهم الله الخلفاء الراشدين ذلك وفاء بوعده الصادق بضمان حفظه على هذه الأمة فكان ابتداء ذلك على يد الصديق بمشورة عمر

“The Messenger of Allah – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him – did not gather the Qur’an in a mushaf because he had to wait if there was some abrogation of some commands or recitation but when he died and the revelation ceased (and thus abrogation as well); Allah, to fulfill his True Commitment of preservation (of Qur’an) for this Ummah, put this thought into the hearts of the Righteous Caliphs. Then this great task was undertaken by Abu Bakr on the advice of ‘Umar.”[34]

Truly, this should conclusively prove that the Qur’an was preserved and compiled during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet – upon him is the peace and blessings of Almighty Allah.”

http://icraa.org/quran-preservation-...hets-lifetime/

I will also like to know the reference of above view by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH) Rah Alay, though i ONLY cautiously take any info after tabe tabieen (by virtue of hadith that said '' the best of My Ummah are..... '' which are more than 10 hadiths even from other collectors outside from bukhari & Muslim confirms it great authenticity ) SINCE such a view will contradict when we see from CLEAR CUT HADITHS & events that of Gibraeil AS revising Quran TWICE in THE LAST ramadhan of our Prophet's Demise ie 2 months before the last haj sermon where Prophet :saws: already CLEARLY indicated he will not be in the world the Next year and gave a last speech like a Charter to the Ummah and also by this verse which will end such speculations of further abrogations which was revealed three months before Prophet's demise at the Arafah at the same last haj sermon

5:3 '' .......................This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. ................''

And Even these below hadiths shows all abrogations were over before 5 months (in the last ramadhan for our prophet :saws: on this earth, when Gibraeil AS revised the Glorious Quran TWICE ) before the demise of Prophet :saws: but Allahu aalam , as Allah made life is test (67:2) in spite of so many Prophecies of Prophet :saws: that happened already when he was alive and soon in days and years after Prophet :saws: this test was left to the sahabas ( Allah tested the sahabas whether they listened to their Khalifa or not ? as per the Order of Prophet :saws: imho)

Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 60
Narrated Ibn : I said to 'Uthman, "This Verse which is in Surat-al-Baqara: "Those of you who die and leave widows behind...without turning them out." has been abrogated by another Verse. Why then do you write it (in the Qur'an)?" 'Uthman said. "Leave it (where it is), O the son of my brother, for I will not shift anything of it (i.e. the Quran) from its original position."

Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 527

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: 'Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, ''I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Apostle and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said


NOTE : Hope every one here takes this as a discussion rather than (shaitan) making us think as arguing to prove one's ideas OR taking sides, Naudhubillah (what is their to take any side when you do not know me or my name nor I know your's and Our Final return & destination is to our Lord , Allah !) But we should remember that such as these situations are a test (like the verse below 3:152-155) to every one of us, believers so that we strive to find the haq or do we stick to our nafs and our views inshallah should sway in the direction of proofs from the Glorious Quran or sahih Hadith and May Allah guide us all , ameen.

Glorious Quran 3:152 '' 152. And Allâh did indeed fulfil His Promise to you when you were killing them (your enemy) with His Permission; until (the moment) you lost your courage and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed after He showed you (of the booty) which you love. Among you are some that desire this world and some that desire the Hereafter. Then He made you flee from them (your enemy), that He might test you. But surely, He forgave you, and Allâh is Most Gracious to the believers.


Note: See how also Al Qadr of Allah is displayed in the above verse

[Insaanah]

:wasalamext:

Can you kindly specify which hadith is the above quote from ?? for our info

The references are given in the source link. But I will post them here too:

This is the source for the statement of Zaid bin Thabit radiyallahu anhu

Asqalani, Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, (Beirut: Dar al-Ma’rifah, 1379 AH) Vol.9, 12

And the source for the statement of al Khattaabi is

As Suyuti, Jalal ad-Deen, al-Itiqan fil ‘Uloom al-Quran, (Egypt: Haeya al-Masriyah al-‘Aamah lil-Kitab, 1974) Vol.1, 202

If I find more information on the other points raised I will post it :ia:

Ameen to the dua.

[OmAbdullah]

The problem might be, that the Quran is being thought of in the conventional sense of a book. i.e. if it wasn’t all collected in one volume, it wasn’t preserved properly, naoothubillah.

Allah promised to preserve the Quran. And He did. It was all written during the Prophets lifetime. The prophet :saws: had told what order the Surahs were to go in. Many companions, as in the page above you’ve quoted from, did have large portions in their own personal masahif (the collections of parchments the Quran was written on). But no one had all of it, as they were revealed at different places and times, when different people were around the Prophet :saws:. The Quran was completely revealed, recorded in hearts and in writing, and its order elucidated. It was already fully preserved.

Our modern day notion is that it should have been a book like how we know today, at that time, for it to be preserved. But that is not the case. The companions wanted to safeguard it for the generations to come, so Allah put into their hearts, that this should be done, as part of His plan to preserve the Quran.

The scholars agree on this, there is lots of evidence from statements of the Sahaba radiyallahu anhum recorded in Saheeh collections. Yes, Allah says in the Quran, dhaalikal kitaabu. It was also referred to as kitaab even in some Makki Surahs when it was not yet a kitaab in the conventional sense. The prophet :saws: was told “Iqra” even when there was not yet anything to read or recite. But this clearly doesn’t mean that it was a book in one volume.


Even in the muqaddamah to Tafheem, Maulana Maududi says that this book should not be thought of in any way as in the conventional sense of a book.

The the muqaddamah to Tafheem of Maulana Maududi has been changed a lot. Alas!