How Traditional Muslim Books are Being Changed - Shaykh Hamza Yusuf

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Like to share and inform.

[Zzz_]

You do know this guy is a sufi who thinks the kuffar can be shaheed?

He speaks about how traditional islam books are being modified due to the oil money in Saudi Arabia from the wahabi sect. Which is funny because it's being changed not only over there but over here too by modern shaykhs like him.

[Misbah-Abd]

He also says there is no need to have a Khilafah. So how is the Shariah and the hudud ever going to be implemented without it? People like him are allowed to flourish in Darul Kufr. He's as harmless as a dove to the kuffar.

[ahmed.younes]

Yes this "sheikh" is an idiot. He teaches people in his school to sit swerving saying Allah for hours. Allah al mosta3an

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[azc]

Yes this "sheikh" is an idiot. He teaches people in his school to sit swerving saying Allah for hours. Allah al mosta3an

His followers can also think of your shaykh as idiot...!

Can't you come out of this sectarian hatred...?

How can ''Saying Allah'' be wrong...?

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He also says there is no need to have a Khilafah. So how is the Shariah and the hudud ever going to be implemented without it? People like him are allowed to flourish in Darul Kufr. He's as harmless as a dove to the kuffar.

Where is khilafah in any Muslim country except dictatorship or kingship....?

[ahmed.younes]

Because it is against the sunnah of the prophet phub. It is an innovation and a bida', and it is leading others astray.

[azc]

Because it is against the sunnah of the prophet phub. It is an innovation and a bida', and it is leading others astray.

No, first, you need to learn what bida is...?
Don't follow scholars blindly

[ahmed.younes]

On the contrary, you need to stop being a sheep, and research yourself instead of following mainstream "Sheikhs" What is your aqeedah? Are you a sufi? Go spread your made up beleifs elsewhere, nobody has time for you. Is this what you have been doing all the meanwhile, 3000 posts? Get a life

[azc]

Because it is against the sunnah of the prophet phub. It is an innovation and a bida', and it is leading others astray.

On the contrary, you need to stop being a sheep, and research yourself instead of following mainstream "Sheikhs" What is your aqeedah? Are you a sufi? Go spread your made up beleifs elsewhere, nobody has time for you. Is this what you have been doing all the meanwhile, 3000 posts? Get a life

Don't talk foolish.

I'm not a sufi though, nor follow any scholar.

You appear to be a brainwashed.

[Zzz_]

@azc , before attacking others you should do some research bro. Hamza is a sufi and his own students went to shk estes for clarification of these bidah practices he was having them do. Have a read here of what estes had to say about it:

https://islam.worldofislam.info/inde...id-he-go-wrong


And scholars are inheritors of the Prophet :saws:. Unless you are a scholar yourself, you have to follow the scholars. Not blindly of course, but nonetheless, you have to follow them when they are teaching the correct manhaj. You wouldn't become a doctor or engineer all by yourself, you have to go learn from them who have the knowledge. Same goes with the deen. Going alone trying to understand the deen will only lead you astray.

[Misbah-Abd]

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Where is khilafah in any Muslim country except dictatorship or kingship....?

I said, he denies that is fard anymore. Just because there isn't one doesn't mean it is no longer obligatory. And since it is a fard kifayah, the whole ummah bears the sin of it not being established.

[azc]

@azc , before attacking others you should do some research bro. Hamza is a sufi and his own students went to shk estes for clarification of these bidah practices he was having them do. Have a read here of what estes had to say about it:

https://islam.worldofislam.info/inde...id-he-go-wrong


And scholars are inheritors of the Prophet :saws:. Unless you are a scholar yourself, you have to follow the scholars. Not blindly of course, but nonetheless, you have to follow them when they are teaching the correct manhaj. You wouldn't become a doctor or engineer all by yourself, you have to go learn from them who have the knowledge. Same goes with the deen. Going alone trying to understand the deen will only lead you astray.

I never attack.

I'm against to call any scholar as idiot, even he belongs to other sect.

If you dislike any scholar for his aqida or opinion, abstain from him but using insulting comments can't be appreciated.

I don't follow scholars though but I respect them all regardless of their ideology/sect for their knowledge of Quran and hadith.

Following a specific sect makes you a fanatic Muslim and you begin to hate other sect and their scholars.

Who is sh hamza yusuf, I'm not interested to know in detail, nor I try to know. Their act whether good or bad will be decided on judgement day.

No scholar is perfect. All are fallible. So I take what is good and leave what is bad.

[Zzz_]

you have a skewed way of looking at things and it will not help you in staying on the right path. How can you take good and leave bad when you don't know know what is good and what is bad? You need knowledge first to recognized the good from the bad. But if you go to any scholar to take the "good" then you will be only misguiding yourself. Their "good" may not be what the Quran and Sunnah considers good. For example, Muta'ah marriage is acceptable in Shia. If their scholar claims it as a good and islamic way to stay away from zina till you are ready for permanent marriage, being ignorant of Islam you will accept that "good" if you follow that way.

Prophet :saws: said all sects will go to hellfire except one. Whether you like it or not, only one sect has the right aqeedah and all the rest are misguided. If you don't want to be in the right camp and want to accept "good" from all the camps then you only jeopardize your own aqeedah and akhira.

And if a scholar from another sect, such as sufi, claims he can become one with Allah or even know more than Allah does (nouzbillah), then how in the world would Allah not hate him? Do you think Allah loves such a mushrik? We love and hate what Allah and His Messenger loves and hates. If you want to dilly dally about who to love and hate, then that's your prerogative.

[cinnamonrolls1]

Can we stop with all the hate please? The prophet saw wouldnt like to see all this :/ lets all be a bit kinder

[azc]

@azc , before attacking others you should do some research bro. Hamza is a sufi and his own students went to shk estes for clarification of these bidah practices he was having them do. Have a read here of what estes had to say about it:

https://islam.worldofislam.info/inde...id-he-go-wrong


And scholars are inheritors of the Prophet :saws:. Unless you are a scholar yourself, you have to follow the scholars. Not blindly of course, but nonetheless, you have to follow them when they are teaching the correct manhaj. You wouldn't become a doctor or engineer all by yourself, you have to go learn from them who have the knowledge. Same goes with the deen. Going alone trying to understand the deen will only lead you astray.

you have a skewed way of looking at things and it will not help you in staying on the right path. How can you take good and leave bad when you don't know know what is good and what is bad? You need knowledge first to recognized the good from the bad. But if you go to any scholar to take the "good" then you will be only misguiding yourself. Their "good" may not be what the Quran and Sunnah considers good. For example, Muta'ah marriage is acceptable in Shia. If their scholar claims it as a good and islamic way to stay away from zina till you are ready for permanent marriage, being ignorant of Islam you will accept that "good" if you follow that way.

Prophet :saws: said all sects will go to hellfire except one. Whether you like it or not, only one sect has the right aqeedah and all the rest are misguided. If you don't want to be in the right camp and want to accept "good" from all the camps then you only jeopardize your own aqeedah and akhira.

And if a scholar from another sect, such as sufi, claims he can become one with Allah or even know more than Allah does (nouzbillah), then how in the world would Allah not hate him? Do you think Allah loves such a mushrik? We love and hate what Allah and His Messenger loves and hates. If you want to dilly dally about who to love and hate, then that's your prerogative.

Who divides this ummah into sects...?

None other than scholars.

''My scholars are good and all are bad''... Only the brainwashed followers raise this slogan.

All swt has given us reasoning power to see what is good and what is bad...

If you find it hard, then do as you wish. Life is yours.

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Can we stop with all the hate please? The prophet saw wouldnt like to see all this :/ lets all be a bit kinder

Good post. your thinking is praiseworthy

[cinnamonrolls1]

Who divides this ummah into sects...?

None other than scholars.

''My scholars are good and all are bad''... Only the brainwashed followers raise this slogan.

All swt has given us reasoning power to see what is good and what is bad...

If you find it hard, then do as you wish. Life is yours.

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Good post. your thinking is praiseworthy

Thank you but i really dont deserve the praise. Just annoys me to see us all fighting

[Zzz_]

Just annoys me to see us all fighting

except there's a difference between a debate/discussion and hating and attacking someone.

[azc]

except there's a difference between a debate/discussion and hating and attacking someone.

who is hating and attacking you..?

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I said, he denies that is fard anymore. Just because there isn't one doesn't mean it is no longer obligatory. And since it is a fard kifayah, the whole ummah bears the sin of it not being established.

Let him say what he says,If you think it's obligatory then you should try to establish it somewhere in a Muslim country.

[Misbah-Abd]

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Let him say what he says,If you think it's obligatory then you should try to establish it somewhere in a Muslim country.

This statement just sums up the extent of your ignorance about the Deen.

[azc]

This statement just sums up the extent of your ignorance about the Deen.

''Ya ayyuhallzina amanu lima taquluna ma la taf'alun''

[ahmed.younes]

Yeah brother @Zzz_ and said it to you nice and clear, and if you don't understand it now then I don't think you will ever understand.

[azc]

Yeah brother @Zzz_ and said it to you nice and clear, and if you don't understand it now then I don't think you will ever understand.

I dislike division in ummah. Also dislike those scholars who divide Muslims in sects and create hatred in the hearts.

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@Misbah-Abd
@ahmed.younes
@ Zzz_

WORDS FROM SHAYKH MUHAMMAD NÂSIRUD- DÎN AL-ALBÂNÎ

"Listen my brother. I sincerely advise you and other youths like you, who stand upon a type of deviation - as it seems to us, and Allâh knows best - that do not waste your time in refuting each other, saying that such and such has this in him, and such and such has that in him. This is because; firstly: there is no knowledge at all in this, and secondly: this mannerism only breeds enmity and hatred in the hearts, and causes contempt and rancour to develop in the hearts. So It is upon you to seek knowledge. It is knowledge that will make clear to you the reality of the speech which is in praise of a particular person having many mistakes, and whether he is deserving of being labelled as an innovator. Yet why do we wish to delve into such issues. Indeed I advise you not to delve into such issues. The reality is that we complain about this splitting which has occurred between those who ascribe themselves to the da'wah to the Book and the Sunnah - or as we say, ad-Da'watus- Salafiyyah the greatest cause of this splitting, and Allâh knows bests, is the following of whims and desires and the evil dictates of one's soul. It is not due to the presence of differences in thoughts and ideas. So this is my sincere advice."

[Silsilatul Hudâ wan-Nûr (784/1), dated the 1st of Rabî' al Awwal 1414H (9-12-1993)]

WORDS FROM SHAYKH 'ABDUL-'AZÎZ BIN BÂZ

"What has become common in this age, is that many of those who ascribe themselves to knowledge and calling to good, fall into belittling many of their brothers who are well-known dâ'îs , and speaking against the honour of the students of knowledge and the dâ'îs . This is done sometimes secretly in their circles, sometimes on cassettes which are then circulated amongst the people, or sometimes publicly mentioned in their gatherings in the mosques. And this matter opposes the command of Allâh and His Messenger from a number of angles ... So I sincerely advise those brothers who have fallen into slandering and maligning the dâ'îs , that they should repent to Allâh, the Most High , for what they have written with their own hands, and what they have said with their own tongues; which may have been a cause for corrupting the hearts of some of the youths; filling their hearts with hatred and malice, and pre-occupying them away from acquiring beneficial knowledge and calling to Allâh, because of being pre-occupied with qîl and qâl (gossiping and rumour mongering); and with speech about this person and that person; and with hunting for the mistakes of people, and burdening them with this. Likewise, I sincerely advise them that they should redress whatever they have done, and declare themselves free from the likes of these actions, through writing: or methods other than this. They should remove whatever may have entered the minds and thoughts of those who listened to them, and they should take to doing those fruitful actions that will draw them closer to Allâh, and which will be of benefit to the worshippers. They should beware of being hasty in pronouncing takfîr , tafsîq or tabdî upon people, without the truth being explained, and without the proofs being established. The Prophet sallallâhu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "Whosoever says to his brother: 'O unbeliever' then it will return to one of them. " The authenticity of this hadîth has been agreed upon."

[Majmû' Fatawa wa Maqalat Mutanawwi'ah (7/311-314), abridged.]

[ahmed.younes]

There's a difference between trying to separate the ummah, and warning them. Hamza Yusuf preaches against the original islamic aqeedah, and promotes bida in his school. I hate to create separation but it's a matter of Al amr bl ma'aroof and nahi an al monkar. Jzk

[Misbah-Abd]

It is obligatory to distinguish truth from falsehood regardless if the ahlu bidah detest it. There is an old saying, "the truth shall set you free but first it will make you miserable."

[MuslimInshallah]

(smile) Assalaamu alaikum my dear brothers and sisters in Islam,

Thank you Junon for bringing this topic to our attention. I have heard about this topic from other credible sources, as well. Islamic books are being altered or suppressed, and this has been going on for a while now. And yes, the desire for wealth and power have a big part in this.

(mildly) The true people of knowledge are as Azc has stated; they try to avoid talking about others in a way that is negative. They may disagree on some points (indeed, this disagreement amongst scholars was once considered a Blessing from Allah! How times have changed!), but they do not denigrate specific people. They may, if necessary, speak privately with individuals. And only if there is a real possibility of great harm, will they speak openly. But a true person of knowledge is humble and dignified, and uses the best of language, and is most careful of his or her tongue.

Sheikh Hamza Yusuf is an ocean of knowledge, and has studied for many, many years with traditional teachers. And over time, his knowledge has become deeper and more rooted. I have read some of his works, I've listened to some of his lectures, and I have attended some of his lectures. Not just a few minutes skimming a text, or a few Youtube clips... actual studies. And it is very clear that Hamza Yusuf is a sincere, hardworking scholar who has been Blessed with intelligence, memory and discernement. Furthermore, he has dedicated his life to bringing Islam to those who have a desperate need for it. This is a man for whom we should be grateful to Allah!

But I do understand that there is a lot of confusion in the Muslim world, particularly in English-speaking countries. I myself spent decades trying to find information... and then the internet came and swamped me with such a dizzying amount of assertions and claims that I ended up even more confused and lacking of true understanding than before!

(smile) But Allah is Kind. I have now more time and opportunities to seek knowledge. The possibility to read serious books, discuss them, attend lessons, meet people of knowledge, (smile) even travel. (seriously) And the more I learn, the more I am humbled by people such as Sheikh Hamza Yusuf. Have I dedicated myself as wholly to Allah and to serving His Ummah as much as he?!

(smile) Sheikh Hamza is human, yes. (mildly) But so am I. I may not quite agree with everything that he says. But am I so sure that I am correct in everything that I say? How can I be so sure? From the earliest days, the greatest of the scholars hated to give opinions, and if they felt it their duty to give one, were sure to acknowledge that they might be mistaken. If the greatest of our teachers and thinkers were this humble... (mildly) who are we rootless, confused, industrially-"educated" modern people to think ourselves as better?

(gently) Let us seek to be people Pleasing to God. Let us learn and work to be better with our families, our neighbours, our societies... with the whole of creation around us...the devastated landscapes, the suffering, industrialized animals... there are so many opportunities in these days to do what is Pleasing to our Lord... let us work to put good deeds in our balance, not burden ourselves with such terrible sins as slander or backbiting... especially when we ourselves do not even know enough to know what is correct or true, and what is not.

(mildly) And I speak above all to myself. (sigh) So many mistakes...


May Allah, the One, the Real, Forgive us and Guide us ever closer to what is Pleasing to Him.

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

I greatly love and respect Sheikh Hamza Yusuf for the sake of Allah, may Allah bless him and increase him in knowledge and in service to this ummah. Many people over the years have tried to undermine and continue to do so, but detractors I always assume are at the end of the day just a distraction from the real business of being the best business of being a Muslim; so, I hope he and others like him InshaAllah (God-willing)continue to forge ahead breaking pathways for Muslims to excel as Muslims.

The issues that people inevitably with him are issues of misunderstanding specific to what he's said or meant as many of his earliest Internet detractors have misrepresented him and his points in taking his words out of their proper context and speech and broader study of Islamic framework; and many ignorantly on the Internet then repeat such words without themselves doing research and delving in-depth into the matter and doing their own homework. Ignorance is day by day increasing; and scholars of almost any persuasion are of course the first casualties of people's ignorance because a "little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and breeds in humankind hubris, may Allah forgive us all.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

[Misbah-Abd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-acadw1YWU

There is no denying what he said and what he meant. Well, Search, that just destroyed your theory. And he says there is ijma on this issue. I don't know where he got that from.

Here is the notes on the above link:

Hamza Yusuf says in this video "It is important to know that Islam does not need a Khilafah, and that is agreed upon (Ijmaa')": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-aca...Well, Imam Al-Nawawi disagrees, as he said in his explanation of Sahih Muslim: "They (the scholars) unanimously agreed (Ijmaa') that it is an obligation upon the Muslims to appoint a Khaleefah, and that its obligation is by revelation, not reason."وأجمعوا على أنه يجب على المسلمين نصب خليفة ووجوبه بالشرع لا بالعقلAnd here is a long list of classical scholars, including Al-Mawardi, Ibn Hazm, Al-Juwayni, Al-Ghazaali, Al-Nasafi, Al-Amidi, Al-Qurtubi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Taftazani, Ibn Khaldun, Al-Shawkani, and others, who all disagree as well, clearly say that the Khilafah is one of the most important obligations in Islam: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/…/C...And let's not forget the multitude of Ahadith that obligate having a Bay'ah to a Khaleefah, such as in Sahih Al-Bukhari "Whoever dies without a Bay'ah on his neck has died the death of Jahiliyyah," and forbid having more than one Khaleefah, such as in Sahih Muslim "If the Bay'ah was given to two Khulafaa, kill the latter of the two."As for the Hadith he mentioned about "...stay away from all those groups/sects," it has been properly explained here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/mazin-...It's just baffling how someone as studied as he is can be so absurdly lacking in knowledge on these clear issues.

[ahmed.younes]

https://www.islamicity.org/forum/for...s.asp?TID=9761 check this out for more info

IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Yusuf Estes on Hamza Yusuf ...

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

First and foremost, understand that this is a high-level distinction that he's making about what is important, that Islam doesn't need a khilafah because Islam is the established great religion and reality of Allah independent of requiring Islamic rule for Islam to flourish just as Allah's existence is a reality and is independent of us as human beings and therefore does not require us to worship Him because the Greatness of Allah is also a reality independent of all creation. He is not saying that khilafah is not a fard kafiyah; that's your interpretation because you vested your opinion in a clip of one minute and 30 seconds rather than listen to the broader discussion that he was having and making a point in regards to have people understand what's most important: Islam itself.

Secondly, while I dislike and do not use IslamQA, as someone who supports the Salafi manhaj, I imagine you do. Well, is IslamQA with this fatwa to which I'm linking you also in that vein wrong? Or is that the broader point is that Islam's greatness is independent of Islamic rule being established. The proof of this is even at this moment you sitting here - why, you may ask? You converted to Islam. Islam's greatness was not dependent on you witnessing/observing/living in the time of having Islamic rule flourish. It was Islam itself that is the attractor, and Allah's religion doesn't need the establishing of khilafah, especially one like ISIS, to make people to bear witness the glory of Islam because Allah will make his religion supreme regardless.

More importantly, do you know that in the time of Mahdi :as: (peace be upon him) will not rule by khilafah but by kingship? Many hadiths mention that al-Mahdî shall actually “rule by Kingship” (yamluku) and speak of “the duration of his kingdom” (muddatu mulkihi) as narrated by Abû `Amr al-Dânî in al-Sunan al-Wârida fî al-Fitan, Nu`aym ibn Hammâd in Kitab al-Fitan, Ibn Hajar al-Haytamî in al-Qawl al-Mukhtasar fi `Alamat al-Mahdî al-Muntazar, and al-Barzanjî in al-Isha`a li Ashrat al-Sa`ah (cf. p. 225). This indicates that his Caliphate shall be of the nature of a righteous monarchy. 4.3 For example: The Prophet – Allâh bless and greet him – said: “The Hour shall not rise until a man from the People of my House [again the concept of royal family] shall rule by kingdom (yamluk), named after me, his father named after mine, and fill the earth with justice and equity just as it had been filled with oppression and injustice.” Narrated from Ibn Mas`ûd by Abû Dâwûd in his Sunan (book of al-Mahdî ), al-Tabarânî in al-Mu`jam al-Kabîr (10:165 #10219), al-Hâkim in al-Mustadrak (4:442) where al-Dhahabî said it is sound (sahîh). Cf. al-Dâni (5:1040, 1041, 1047, 1048, 1051 [“Rule by kingdom over the earth”], 1052 [“Rule by kingdom over the Arabs”]). 4.4 From Abû Sa`id al-Khudri: The Prophet (SAWS) said: “Al-Mahdî shall rule by kingdom for seven, eight, or nine years.” Nu`aym ibn Hammâd (2:689). He cites several similarly-worded reports with variant durations (1:376-378).

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-acadw1YWU

There is non denying what he said and what he meant. Well, Search, that just destroyed your theory. And he says there is ijma on this issue. I don't know where he got that from.

Here is the notes on the above link:

Hamza Yusuf says in this video "It is important to know that Islam does not need a Khilafah, and that is agreed upon (Ijmaa')": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-aca...Well, Imam Al-Nawawi disagrees, as he said in his explanation of Sahih Muslim: "They (the scholars) unanimously agreed (Ijmaa') that it is an obligation upon the Muslims to appoint a Khaleefah, and that its obligation is by revelation, not reason."وأجمعوا على أنه يجب على المسلمين نصب خليفة ووجوبه بالشرع لا بالعقلAnd here is a long list of classical scholars, including Al-Mawardi, Ibn Hazm, Al-Juwayni, Al-Ghazaali, Al-Nasafi, Al-Amidi, Al-Qurtubi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Taftazani, Ibn Khaldun, Al-Shawkani, and others, who all disagree as well, clearly say that the Khilafah is one of the most important obligations in Islam: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/…/C...And let's not forget the multitude of Ahadith that obligate having a Bay'ah to a Khaleefah, such as in Sahih Al-Bukhari "Whoever dies without a Bay'ah on his neck has died the death of Jahiliyyah," and forbid having more than one Khaleefah, such as in Sahih Muslim "If the Bay'ah was given to two Khulafaa, kill the latter of the two."As for the Hadith he mentioned about "...stay away from all those groups/sects," it has been properly explained here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/mazin-...It's just baffling how someone as studied as he is can be so absurdly lacking in knowledge on these clear issues.

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Misbah, my dear,


(gently) I'm afraid what you have posted rather confirms what Search was trying to say. Here you have a small snippet of Sheikh Hamza speaking, posted by an anonymous someone who wants to discredit him, then a bunch of links to various other snippets with the same motive.

(gently) Please, Misbah, I don't question your fire and desire to do everything that is best... but please do not let yourself be carried away into dangerous waters. If it is your firm and sincere desire to seek knowledge for the sake of Allah, then I fully support your intention, and encourage you to set out on this long and difficult path. But if you are not seeking this... please do not let yourself be manipulated by those with less beautiful intentions.


May God, the Gentle, the Wise, Protect you.

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Qur'an says (9:33) the following. "It is God Who sent His Messenger with guidance and a true religion that will prevail over all other religions, even though the pagans may dislike it."

This is a guarantee of Allah independent of whether there exists Islamic rule or not. Allah's Words are not bound by time or place and needs no one and no organization to guarantee His Words.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

[Misbah-Abd]

Nice spin Search, I knew you would work your magic and you certainly didn't disappoint. Apparently the Sahabah should of taken that advice and just left it up to Allah and His Deen to flourish without the effort to make it a physical reality on their part. Umar, "Abu Bakr, you need to go right now to the courtyard of Banu Saa'dah, the Ansar are attempting to appoint a khilafah without the input of Muhaajiroon." Abu Bakr, "No worries Umar, Islam doesn't need a khilafah because Islam is the established great religion and reality of Allah independent of requiring Islamic rule for Islam to flourish. Just put your trust in Allah and focus on purifying your heart and leave the rest up to Allah." What would of happened without the leadership of Abu Bakr as the Khilafah? The fitnah of the apostates would of gotten out of hand and Medina would of been overrun. How does the implementation of the Shariah happen without the Khilafah? Who established the hudud punisments that Allah decrees for the adulterer, thief, and other crimes? If Allah was just going to make the Deen flourish without the efforts of His creation, then why would He even bother prescribing Law and Punishments? Your flawed logic makes no sense contradicts the Quran and is separate from how this Deen was established by the Sahaba, the Tabi'een and the early righteous generations that followed them. We put our trust in Allah, He promises victory for this Deen, but He does it through the efforts from men like, Abu Bakr, Khalid bin Waleed, Salahudin, the Imams of Fiqh, the scholars of hadith, the mujahadeen, and those that follow the Quran and Sunnah. To say that Islam doesn't need a khilafah and Islamic rule is a dangerous deviaton that I am starting to see from the followers of Hamza Yusuf and his ilk, at the expense of this Ummah and the humiliating fitnah that it is experiencing now, to the satisfaction of the kuffar. And Allah Knows Best.

[Zzz_]

This is a guarantee of Allah independent of whether there exists Islamic rule or not. Allah's Words are not bound by time or place and needs no one and no organization to guarantee His Words.

I understand your need to defend your sufi shaikh, a shia student or an ismaili student or any similar student would do the same. But know that what your sufi shayk preaches and what Sunni Islam preaches are not the same.

It is the very words of Allah that command us to establish the khalifah or islamic rule and those who refuse to believe this lead themselves to kufr, as describe by Allah as well.

Allaah has commanded us to refer matters to His judgement and to establish Sharee‘ah, and He has forbidden us to rule with anything else, as is clear from a number of aayaat in the Qur’aan.

“And so judge between them by what Allaah has revealed . . .” [aayah 49]

whoever does not judge according to what Allaah revealed is a kaafir, a zaalim (oppressor or wrongdoer) and a faasiq (sinner), as Allaah says:

“. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.” [aayah 44];

“. . . And whoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, such are the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)” [aayah 45];

“. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed (then) such (people) are the faasiqoon (rebellious or disobedient).” [aayah 47].

[Zafran]

I understand your need to defend your sufi shaikh, a shia student or an ismaili student or any similar student would do the same. But know that what your sufi shayk preaches and what Sunni Islam preaches are not the same.

Sunni Islam like Ghazzali, Junyad, Fakr uddin Razi, abdul qadir al Jalani (ra) were all sunni and sufi - so your point is mute on there. Ibn Taymiya(ra) and Abdul wahab and the salafi school is not the main stream sunni viewpoint. That might work for a 10 year old but not for any grown up.

Its funny how salafis are so pro Khalifa but there own school fought against the Ottoman Khalifat with the help of the Biritish empire. Now they crying about Khalifa?

Furthermore Isis and Boko Haram are what you salafis ultimately want - you should do Hijra there and see how the "Khalifat" is going.

Saudi Arabia is also a choice but they probably wont let you stay unless your saudi. You Got Iran if your like the shia version.

Lastly threads like these are not what IB is about its sectarian so the mods should shut it down -

[ChosenTCO]

Salam brothers and sisters.
Just before i share my thoughts on this thread, id like to make it perfectly clear that im neither against a khilaafa or for it (i stand on neutral grounds about this as i do not have any information about it other than it used to happen before the ottoman empire collapsed). With that said, id like to direct your attention to how this all happened.

A simple video of someone talking about something led to ... 1) name calling! 2) division between muslim brothers and sisters!
Why is it that every time a person has a different opinion than us, we all get worked up and pissed about it? Perhaps you dont know the same knowledge that he has, perhaps he has more knowledge than you do and sees a wider picture than you do? There are so many things that makes you not have the right to speak against someone's view with such arrogance and cockiness ... And even if you did, it is never right to slander someone like that (specially when that person truly intends well even if he doesn't).

One thing for certain, its better to at least follow the basics of islamic principles than to know so much about them without following even the most basic of islamic teaching. So lets all focus on ourselves more than on others and allow people to have different opinions. Because we have to acknowledge the fact that we can never make 2 people have the same opinions all the time 24/7 ... and thats ok, because thought process differ based on how one was brought up and taught.

In other words ... CHILL :coldwater: . you know, one thing i can say about khilafa, is that it will reduce the amount of division between us because we will be all following one person and not fricking murdering each other about the slightest difference of opinion. i mean ... this is the path that leads to people having the same mentality as ISIS. the lowest level of intolerance is name calling, and if that attitude manifests, you get things like what ISIS is doing to other muslims. All because the dont share the same beliefs as they do. So instead of reacting upon these emotions of intolerance, work on your self control and be more accepting towards others ... perhaps this is get us close to your dream of a khilafa. This doesnt mean you cant defend your opinion or voice your disagreement over an opinion. you can ... just not in a name calling and slandering way.

So take it easy bros, stop it with the name calling and stuff. its much easier to think and communicate when there is no tension between us ... family.

[Zafran]

these threads always go down this road - simply because the video is a critic of a certain school and editing of Books. Many scholars have talked about this and the Saudi printing books. Not new news unless you just found the salafi zeitgeist.

[Zzz_]

Sunni Islam like Ghazzali, Junyad, Fakr uddin Razi, abdul qadir al Jalani (ra) were all sunni and sufi - so your point is mute on there. Ibn Taymiya(ra) and Abdul wahab and the salafi school is not the main stream sunni viewpoint. That might work for a 10 year old but not for any grown up.

Its funny how salafis are so pro Khalifa but there own school fought against the Ottoman Khalifat with the help of the Biritish empire. Now they crying about Khalifa?

Furthermore Isis and Boko Haram are what you salafis ultimately want - you should do Hijra there and see how the "Khalifat" is going.

Saudi Arabia is also a choice but they probably wont let you stay unless your saudi. You Got Iran if your like the shia version.

Lastly threads like these are not what IB is about its sectarian so the mods should shut it down -

I never claimed to be a salafi. The command to establish the khalifah is given in the Quran, if you have a problem with that then take it up with Allah.

ISIS is the creation of Mossad and CIA, and this is a fact easily found in western journalism. Are you really that naive to assume they are salafi extremest or are you just plain ignorant?

Regarding Boko haram, it's leader too had died many years ago so the current leader is some western puppet much like isis. You really should do some research before parroting what mainstream narrative spoon feeds.

who ever claims the corrupt saudi are the khalifah state is a fool to think of such a thing, and you are the only one making those claims here.

As for repeated throwing out names like ghazzali and others of their kind on here everytime this topic comes up. Indian subcontinent and sufi loves love to quote those as great sunni scholars who were also sufi. Those indian continent people also love to quote weak and fabricate hadith while ignoring sahih hadith. Here's what your great Ghazzali was about and i'm sure others are not too far behind in their confusion:


The life of al-Ghazzaali needs to be discussed at length because he went through a number of stages. He indulged in philosophy, then he recanted and rejected that. After that he indulged in what is known as ‘ilm al-kalaam (Islamic philosophy) and gained a sound grasp of its basic principles; then he rejected that after it became clear to him that it was corrupt and filled with contradictions. He was focusing on ‘ilm al-kalaam during the period when he refuted philosophy, and at that time he was given the title of Hujjat al-Islam, after he had refuted the arguments of the philosophers. Then he recanted ‘ilm al-kalaam and turned away from it. He followed the path of the Baatiniyyah (esotericists) and learned their knowledge, but then he rejected that and showed the beliefs of the Baatiniyyah to be false, and exposed the manner in which they tamper with the texts and rulings. Then he followed the path of Sufism. These are the four stages that al-Ghazzaali went through.

You will find that even though Abu Haamid al-Ghazzaali had such a deep knowledge of fiqh, Sufism, ‘ilm al-kalaam, usool al-fiqh, etc., and even though he was such an ascetic and devoted worshipper, and had such a good intention and vast knowledge of Islamic sciences, he still had an inclination towards philosophy. But his philosophy emerged in the form of Sufism and was expressed through Islamic ideas. Hence the Muslim scholars, including his closest companion Abu Bakr ibn al-‘Arabi, refuted his ideas. Abu Bakr ibn al-‘Arabi said: Our shaykh Abu Haamid went deep into philosophy, then he wanted to come out of it but he was unable to.

Even though al-Ghazzaali was very advanced in knowledge, he had little knowledge of hadeeth and its sciences, and he could not distinguish between sound ahaadeeth and weak ones. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “If we assume that someone narrated the view of the salaf but what he narrated is far removed from what the view of the salaf actually is, then he has little knowledge of the view of the salaf, such as Abu’l-Ma’aali, Abu Haamid al-Ghazzaali, Ibn al-Khateeb and the like, who did not have enough knowledge of hadeeth to qualify them as ordinary scholars of hadeeth, let alone as prominent scholars in that field. For none of these people had any knowledge of al-Bukhaari and Muslim and their ahaadeeth, apart from what they heard, which is similar to the situation of the ordinary Muslim, who cannot distinguish between a hadeeth which is regarded as saheeh and mutawaatir according to the scholars of hadeeth, and a hadeeth which is fabricated and false. Their books bear witness to that, for they contain strange things and most of these scholars of ‘ilm al-kalaam and Sufis who have drifted away from the path of the salaf admit that, either at the time of death or before death. There are many such well-known stories. This Abu Haamid al-Ghazzaali, despite his brilliance, his devotion to Allaah, his knowledge of kalaam and philosophy, his asceticism and spiritual practices and his Sufism, ended up in a state of confusion and resorted to the path of those who claim to find out things through dreams and spiritual methods.

you can read the rest here if you care to seek the truth : https://islamqa.info/en/13473

[Misbah-Abd]

Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, may Allah have mercy upon him, did end up coming back to the manhaj of the salaf and it can be seen from his last book authored, Iljam al-Awamm and translated as A Return to Purity in Creed. And Allah Knows Best.

[Zafran]

I never claimed to be a salafi. The command to establish the khalifah is given in the Quran, if you have a problem with that then take it up with Allah.

Your a salafi your entire post is IslamQA and salafi made up history of Al Ghazali - Al Ghazali was a a sufi/sunni/ashari just like Fakr udin Razi and Qarfi. Suyuti, subki etc.

Ibn Taymiya (ra) was a great scholar but still controversial who was from the Hanabli school just like abdul qadir al Jalani.

Abdul Wahhab and the salafis were against the Ottoman khalifa - Now you love the Khalifa? The rest is conspiracy theory about CIA and God Knows what.

Read Al Ghazali yourself and dont Islam QA everything.

- - - Updated - - -

Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, may Allah have mercy upon him, did end up coming back to the manhaj of the salaf and it can be seen from his last book authored, Iljam al-Awamm and translated as A Return to Purity in Creed. And Allah Knows Best.

Nice story is that from Islam QA as well.Actually broaden your Horizons. Read Al Ghazali and the other giant scholars. (ps I know you haven't read that book).


I've been past my Salafi Islam QA Youth years ago.

[Misbah-Abd]

And this misguidance that I see prevalent on here that Islam is between a servant and his Lord and that is the extent of it without the need to establish the Law of Allah and implement it in the society and not just personally is so blatantly false and contrary to the seerah and Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.a.w and his companions r.a. And this nonsense that it's the 21st century, and with "globalization" that it is no longer obligatory to establish Khilafah and Shariah and is just an excuse to not come to the unpleasant terms of what Allah demands of his servants. So it's easier to either be willfully ignorant of such issues or lie and say there is "ijmaa" on such issues when clearly there isn't. Just marginalize your Creator to your personal life and leave the rest up to the creation to govern the world. And these sufi's think that is something original when the People of the Book preceded them with secularist concepts such as "separation between church and state." And Allah Knows Best.

- - - Updated - - -

And this misguidance that I see prevalent on here that Islam is between a servant and his Lord and that is the extent of it without the need to establish the Law of Allah and implement it in the society and not just personally is so blatantly false and contrary to the seerah and Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.a.w and his companions r.a. And this nonsense that it's the 21st century, and with "globalization" that it is no longer obligatory to establish Khilafah and Shariah and is just an excuse to not come to the unpleasant terms of what Allah demands of his servants. So it's easier to either be willfully ignorant of such issues or lie and say there is "ijmaa" on such issues when clearly there isn't. Just marginalize your Creator to your personal life and leave the rest up to the creation to govern the world. And these sufi's think that is something original when the People of the Book preceded them with secularist concepts such as "separation between church and state." And Allah Knows Best.

[Zafran]

And this misguidance that I see prevalent on here that Islam is between a servant and his Lord and that is the extent of it without the need to establish the Law of Allah and implement it in the society and not just personally is so blatantly false and contrary to the seerah and Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.a.w and his companions r.a. And this nonsense that it's the 21st century, and with "globalization" that it is no longer obligatory to establish Khilafah and Shariah and is just an excuse to not come to the unpleasant terms of what Allah demands of his servants. So it's easier to either be willfully ignorant of such issues or lie and say there is "ijmaa" on such issues when clearly there isn't. Just marginalize your Creator to your personal life and leave the rest up to the creation to govern the world. And these sufi's think that is something original when the People of the Book preceded them with secularist concepts such as "separation between church and state." And Allah Knows Best.

- - - Updated - - -

And this misguidance that I see prevalent on here that Islam is between a servant and his Lord and that is the extent of it without the need to establish the Law of Allah and implement it in the society and not just personally is so blatantly false and contrary to the seerah and Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.a.w and his companions r.a. And this nonsense that it's the 21st century, and with "globalization" that it is no longer obligatory to establish Khilafah and Shariah and is just an excuse to not come to the unpleasant terms of what Allah demands of his servants. So it's easier to either be willfully ignorant of such issues or lie and say there is "ijmaa" on such issues when clearly there isn't. Just marginalize your Creator to your personal life and leave the rest up to the creation to govern the world. And these sufi's think that is something original when the People of the Book preceded them with secularist concepts such as "separation between church and state." And Allah Knows Best.

are you lamenting about The Ottomans now?

[Zzz_]

Your a salafi your entire post is IslamQA and salafi made up history of Al Ghazali - Al Ghazali was a a sufi/sunni/ashari just like Fakr udin Razi and Qarfi. Suyuti, subki etc.

Ibn Taymiya (ra) was a great scholar but still controversial who was from the Hanabli school just like abdul qadir al Jalani.

Abdul Wahhab and the salafis were against the Ottoman khalifa - Now you love the Khalifa? The rest is conspiracy theory about CIA and God Knows what.

Read Al Ghazali yourself and dont Islam QA everything.

Islamqa gives evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah. And they don't say xyz because they said so, they say majority of the scholars of this view or that and this is the correct view or that, unlike other sites quote here of a single imam giving his own opinion rather then a scholarly committee answering the questions.

I also go to islamweb.net if you haven't noticed and would consider other sites that are from Quran/sunnah giving proper detailed evidence as proof.

Something you should learn to do as well rather then quote what indo sub continent people taught you.

Abdul Wahab was from Nadj, land that was NOT part of the ottoman empire. The empire did not expand that far. The lies you spur against the great imam only shows your own level of character and ignorance of history. Here's something to educate yourself a little:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XujcMsBHkCQ

[Zafran]

Islamqa gives evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah. And they don't say xyz because they said so, they say majority of the scholars of this view or that and this is the correct view or that, unlike other sites quote here of a single imam giving his own opinion rather then a scholarly committee answering the questions.

No the scholars of the salafis are Ibn Taymiya(ra) Ibn Qayim Jawzi(ra) Abdul wahab, al bani, Fawzan, Baz, Ibn Utthymeen etc etc - it is not the majority scholars - they come from Hanbali madhab but have differnt views after Abdul wahab.

This does not take in consideration of the Al Kourine or zaytun in North africa (maliki) al Azhar in Egypt - Indonesia or Malaysia (shafi) or Turkey and sub Continent (hanafi)

Use scholars in your area and not websites. Read books as well.

Something you should learn to do as well rather then quote what indo sub continent people taught you.

where?

Abdul Wahab was from Nadj, land that was NOT part of the ottoman empire. The empire did not expand that far. The lies you spur against the great imam only shows your own level of character and ignorance of history. Here's something to educate yourself a little:

he was against the Kahlifat - so were his successors the sauds. History hurts. How old are you by the way and how long have you been a salafi? where are you from? I thought you said you didn't identify as salafi? confused?

[فصيح الياسين]

Seriously so much accidents here.... and between own Muslims

[azc]

Seriously so much accidents here.... and between own Muslims

It's all due to narrow mindedness...

[syphax]

Just take the good and leave the bad from him
If we keep following people accusations then nouman Ali khan is not good because of the scandal and hamza Yusuf is not good because of his teaching and the others also have problems then who's leading the ummah ?
Hamza Yusuf guided millions of peoples and many became Muslims because of him and also the important he look sincere in what he's doing .
By the way Muslims don't call other Muslims kafir it's a sin

[سيف الله]

Salaam

This debate reminds me of this



The whole point is that nobody should alter and distort Islamic texts, they must be preserved.

[azc]

SalaamThis debate reminds me of this The whole point is that nobody should alter and distort Islamic texts, they must be preserved.

agree, and it's a big sin as well:wa: