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beleiver
05-21-2018, 12:40 PM
It seems in the online Muslim community there is a consensus that all intoxicants are haram and authorities are granted permission by Allah to persecute, oppress and punish those that use them?

I would appreciate it if anyone could explain where the word 'intoxicant' comes from in the Quran or hadith, what is the word 'intoxicant' in Arabic?

And where in the Quran/Hadith does it permit authorities or anyone to punish the use of any 'intoxicant'?
What examples are there where a man can punish man if their only sin is against their own soul?

My take is addiction and dependence is bad and purity is best and I don't want to promote drug use, but I cannot submit to the idea that safe natural medicine is prohibited by Allah and He wants us to criminalize and punish those that use it or abuse it.
There are too many substances foods and drinks that could be called 'intoxicants' it opens doors to selective oppression and tyranny which Islam forbids, which I cannot submit to and is my main reason my religion is not Islam.
Also, can someone who thinks the use/misuse of this word is a distortion and is used out of context and disagree with the majority of scholars still call themselves Muslim?
Can a Muslim campaign for the decriminalization of all drugs?

thanks, peace, and blessings in advance.
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Abz2000
05-21-2018, 07:14 PM
As someone with lots of experience on the topic, i can assure you that intoxicants slow down the thought process and also positive progress.
One of the things they do is make ignorance and passiveness deceitfully appear as bliss - it does temporarily take away the stress - but doesn't really help a person to think about how to rectify the situation.

Example - a person is experiencing a deceitful marital situation that is going too far and spiralling out of control and knows that he/she needs a divorce because the situation isn't looking to get better. Taking intoxicants might take the edge off and dull the essential senses that make them feel the urgent need to do something about it - but it won't fix the situation and they'll usually be at square one or worse after the long drawn out phase - it is a form of e treme procrastination - same with anti-depressants, they are very harmful in that they make a person passive to a situation where the mind should be sitting up alert and getting up to face the music.
Intoxicants usually make an intelligent person go from man to semi-beast, not only that - they might even (like a fool) fall into the ditch that they were trying to drag someone else out of since their mental faculties are dimmed.


The best thing to do is to carefully analyse what is actually going wrong and then what needs to be done to rectify the physical situation, not put the brain into moron mode because there's much work needing to be done.

-----
Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there.
And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.
That is how it will be with this wicked generation."

Matthew 12:45

-------


I once heard of a situation where little fish on prozac were swimming up to predator fish with their young and then staring like chinese tourists or oblivious eve from crank until the whole lot were gobbled up.

Dunno if it makes sense but that's my opinion from experience.


See also:

Drugs in our rivers: Bugs on speed and Prozac in the food chain
https://journalistsresource.org/stud...stant-bacteria


51. The Trumpet will be blown, then behold, they will rush from the tombs to their Lord.
52. They will say, “Woe to us! Who resurrected us from our resting-place?” This is what the Most Gracious had promised, and the messengers have spoken the truth.”
53. It will be but a single scream; and behold, they will all be brought before Us.
54. On that Day, no soul will be wronged in the least, and you will be recompensed only for what you used to do.
55. The inhabitants of Paradise, on that Day, will be happily busy.
56. They and their spouses, in shades, reclining on couches.
57. They will have therein fruits. They will have whatever they call for.
58. Peace—a saying from a Most Merciful Lord.
59. But step aside today, you criminals.
60. Did I not covenant with you, O Children of Adam, that you shall not serve the devil? That he is your sworn enemy?
61. And that you shall serve Me? This is a straight path.
62. He has misled a great multitude of you. Did you not understand?
63. This is Hellfire, which you were promised.
64. Roast in it today, because you persistently rejected (the just truth).

From Quran Chapter 36: Ya-Seen.
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eesa the kiwi
05-21-2018, 08:49 PM
Just posting in this thread so I can find it later on. Bit busy to give the detail it deserves
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beleiver
05-21-2018, 10:12 PM
@Abz2000 I can relate to that, but when you say intoxicant you mean alcohol?

And that Quran verse can be interpreted both ways..

The Arabic words I found so far used for intoxicant is Khamr, the root of the word seems to be linked to the verb to 'cover' which is a perfect word as alcohol does cover the mind and blocks out one's intellect and that connection to God.
The other word I found is 'Mascar' which implies the same..I think the root of the English word mask has its roots in Arabic. What i am really looking for is the word in Arabic used in Quran Hadith for 'Intoxicant' not alcohol.

I have a long experience with drugs and observed over many years which ones destroy people and which ones dont, to me these words perfectly describe the drugs to stay away from, which are depressants, painkillers and all the types of downers and antipsychotics or anything that covers the mind and bodily functions.
But the problem using the word Intoxicant might include psychoactive and stimulants which do not have the same negative effects.


Cannabis, for example, is not comparable to alcohol and is very beneficial to many people for many reasons, in many many cases it saves lives and makes life of suffering livable, to deny people who are suffering serious ailments this natural safe nontoxic plant is a serious injustice, to actually hunt down and imprison people and steal this medicine of people is pure evil..
And for those stoners that use it habitually recreationally, they just need compassion, guidance, and forgiveness, persecuting and stealing from them has to be a far greater sin than they commit against their own souls.

How can Islam which is clearly against injustice oppression and stealing support this behavior?

Also, I understand alcohol is 'prohibited' but in what context?

I am really looking for hadiths that actually describe an instance where peoples homes were invaded, searched and looted for alcohol?
Or was it as the Quran says, just stay away from it, don't be promoting it and if you do sin be it on your own soul and there is no escape from the punishment of Allah.

I have found one hadith where it was narrated by someone who was a child at the time who witnessed the prophet (pbuh) order the lashing of a drunk, but as far as i can tell it was in the contex that they were going off to battle, and who wouldnt be upset with a drunk person watching their back in battle, the Hadith where it became 'prohibited' was due to drunk people being killed in battle. So it appears to me it was only punishable in certain situations rather than like this satanic war on drugs where they can seriously oppress humanity by using 'prohibition' to imho go way off the path and actually serve the Devil by spying, searching and stealing and dividing communities apart.

Which is it in Islam? prohibition as a warning to stay away from or as an excuse to oppress and steal?

Any hadiths on this would be a help. Also, this elusive word used 'Intoxicant' in Arabic?
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azc
05-21-2018, 11:38 PM
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/7755

http://islamqa.org/shafii/shafiifiqh/29978

https://islamqa.info/en/40530?_e_pi_...0%2C5420665117

Alcohol based Perfumes, Deodrants and Creams - IslamQA
I was wondering if alcohol in detergents and creams etc. is permissible to use. ANSWER In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful, In principle, it should be remembered that, alcohol extracted from grapes, dates and barley is decisively unlawful (haram), both its oral intake as well as application, for...
Reply

ChosenTCO
05-22-2018, 12:48 AM
I cant answer much of your questions or provide you with evidences and what not, but one thing that i feel your missing in the definition of what kham is is that:

Its basically anything that inhibits your ability of judgement and/or conscious mind. Basically anything that interferes with the soundness of the decisions you take while under the influence of this substance.
btw, since we are talking about drugs and stuff ... does cannabis fall under this definition i just stated?^o):hiding:
Reply

Abz2000
05-22-2018, 06:40 AM
@azc unlike swine, alcohol is not najis (impurity), rather it is an anti-bacterial disinfectant that kills living organisms when applied in high concentration,
The human consumption of khamr is forbidden, however - the Messenger of Allah :saws: would use vinegar as a bread condiment, and alcohol (ethanol) is converted to acetic acid make vinegar.

https://m.wikihow.com/Make-Your-Own-Vinegar


Please inform the well-meaning scholar respectfully. Just because he's an 'aalim he's not expected to know everything since he's human.


Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
I cant answer much of your questions or provide you with evidences and what not, but one thing that i feel your missing in the definition of what kham is is that:

Its basically anything that inhibits your ability of judgement and/or conscious mind. Basically anything that interferes with the soundness of the decisions you take while under the influence of this substance.
btw, since we are talking about drugs and stuff ... does cannabis fall under this definition i just stated?^o):hiding:
I am going to be brazen in my approach to this topic as i feel it's necessary.

No point hiding from Allah, we won't get far from the One up there - if he says: Oh Adam where u at? better to just 'fess up that we're human and that we need guidance and assistance. (Weak resolved Adam had the guidance and still failed the test (God knows what they got up to after that but the hints are stark) so he decided to use a different tack and beg for forgiveness and comforting mercy.......the tree or plant didn't offer much consolation.




Most Muslim youth don't consume alcohol but some have a weak spot for the herb - it makes a person feel laid back without all the dangerous effects of drunkenness - where a person acts mad and beastly and can easily cause death via dangerous driving etc, it's also nowhere near as addictive as alcohol, it's definitely not comforter of the last resort, and most people who assume it is in the same category as heroin or speed or alcohol and condemn it as such have hardly any or no experience.
Some in kaafir states (who worship the secular state) falsely assume that it's worse than alcohol due to legislation and unfamiliarity.

It costs like like £6 gbp for 100g where i'm at (£60 per kilo) so i've had more than enough opportunity to binge :facepalm: - it's an easy way to put a temporary dimmer on the brain - and i must admit although i am unable to answer your question, i cannot put it in exactly the same category as alcohol, nor can i recommend it to my children. I also found it quite easy to crash out as Ramadan came in without much trouble despite a daily 1/4 oz 6 month binge.



Best thing to do is look at how Allah shows us the way to measure uncertain stuff - and get scientists without any unjust bias to weigh on the scale of benefit and harm and speak the facts- and to keep re-evaluating and informing the public of new findings.


They ask you about khamr (primarily grape and date wine) and gambling,
say,
"In them are great harms and benefits for the people, and their harm is greater than their benefits." 2:219

O you who believe, do not approach the Salat while SUQAARAA (intoxicated), until you know what you are saying. 4:43

O you who believe, khamr, gambling, divination before altars/idols and arrows of chance are afflictions that are the work of the Satan; you shall 'ijtanibuhu' (stay away from him) so that you may succeed. 5:90


See also (you may be surprised at how far most Muslims have progressed as spotless teetotallers):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamr

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011/...wine-and-beer/


I am in no way encouraging the consumption of non-high sugar content alcohol nor other intoxicants, and know very well that beer can make a person as drunk as wine when consumed in high amounts, and also know that weed makes a person a sexual poet and removes many inhibitions.

From my own experience - i'd say to someone who considers light beer or weed that they are not food (although that's what the dealer calls it), and that they can lead to harm and folly if abused - and i won't go further out of fear of being labelled a hypocrite by Allah.

The rest is there for everyone to research objectively.


Btw - when researching for this comment I found a website that contains a gazillion translations of any given Quranic verse.

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/219/default.htm



If you don't mind, @ChosenTCO and any whom it may concern- have you ever consumed weed? and if so, what is your experience in terms of benefit and harm?
Please contribute - since remaining silent won't help anyone.
Reply

Ümit
05-22-2018, 08:02 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
@azc unlike swine, alcohol is not najis (impurity), rather it is an anti-bacterial disinfectant that kills living organisms when applied in high concentration,
The human consumption of khamr is forbidden, however - the Messenger of Allah :saws: would use vinegar as a bread condiment, and alcohol (ethanol) is converted to acetic acid make vinegar.

https://m.wikihow.com/Make-Your-Own-Vinegar


Please inform the well-meaning scholar respectfully. Just because he's an 'aalim he's not expected to know everything since he's human.




I am going to be brazen in my approach to this topic as i feel it's necessary.

No point hiding from Allah, we won't get far from the One up there - if he says: Oh Adam where u at? better to just 'fess up that we're human and that we need guidance and assistance. (Weak resolved Adam had the guidance and still failed the test (God knows what they got up to after that but the hints are stark) so he decided to use a different tack and beg for forgiveness and comforting mercy.......the tree or plant didn't offer much consolation.




Most Muslim youth don't consume alcohol but some have a weak spot for the herb - it makes a person feel laid back without all the dangerous effects of drunkenness - where a person acts mad and beastly and can easily cause death via dangerous driving etc, it's also nowhere near as addictive as alcohol, it's definitely not comforter of the last resort, and most people who assume it is in the same category as heroin or speed or alcohol and condemn it as such have hardly any or no experience.
Some in kaafir states (who worship the secular state) falsely assume that it's worse than alcohol due to legislation and unfamiliarity.

It costs like like £6 gbp for 100g where i'm at (£60 per kilo) so i've had more than enough opportunity to binge :facepalm: - it's an easy way to put a temporary dimmer on the brain - and i must admit although i am unable to answer your question, i cannot put it in exactly the same category as alcohol, nor can i recommend it to my children. I also found it quite easy to crash out as Ramadan came in without much trouble despite a daily 1/4 oz 6 month binge.



Best thing to do is look at how Allah shows us the way to measure uncertain stuff - and get scientists without any unjust bias to weigh on the scale of benefit and harm and speak the facts- and to keep re-evaluating and informing the public of new findings.


They ask you about khamr (primarily grape and date wine) and gambling,
say,
"In them are great harms and benefits for the people, and their harm is greater than their benefits." 2:219

O you who believe, do not approach the Salat while SUQAARAA (intoxicated), until you know what you are saying. 4:43

O you who believe, khamr, gambling, divination before altars/idols and arrows of chance are afflictions that are the work of the Satan; you shall 'ijtanibuhu' (stay away from him) so that you may succeed. 5:90


See also (you may be surprised at how far most Muslims have progressed as spotless teetotallers):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamr

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011/...wine-and-beer/


I am in no way encouraging the consumption of non-high sugar content alcohol nor other intoxicants, and know very well that beer can make a person as drunk as wine when consumed in high amounts, and also know that weed makes a person a sexual poet and removes many inhibitions.

From my own experience - i'd say to someone who considers light beer or weed that they are not food (although that's what the dealer calls it), and that they can lead to harm and folly if abused - and i won't go further out of fear of being labelled a hypocrite by Allah.

The rest is there for everyone to research objectively.


Btw - when researching for this comment I found a website that contains a gazillion translations of any given Quranic verse.

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/219/default.htm



If you don't mind, @ChosenTCO and any whom it may concern- have you ever consumed weed? and if so, what is your experience in terms of benefit and harm?
Please contribute - since remaining silent won't help anyone.
I am Dutch...weed is legal over here and I can say I've had enough experience with hash and weed in my youth. It is really not that bad...It is not physically addictive like alcohol or any other hard drugs. So you don't need bigger dosis every time you take it and you will not face much trouble when you try to quit...with hard drugs, your body needs the drugs otherwise you will feel really sick....with cannabis you do not have that problem.
Cannabis is only mentally addictive. you think you need it because you can forget about your life, your problems, your responsibilities, pain, etc...but you will not feel physically miserable if you do not take it.

The harm of cannabis however, like any other drugs, you cannot think clear anymore. you forget about God, you forget your duties...you stop being a useful person to anyone which is anti islamic. you may not endanger other people by using it...(directly) except for just being a bad example and except you are driving in that condition...but is won't benefit you much either...
you just convert into a useless bag of breathing flesh and bones...you cannot go to work in such a condition, you cannot pray, you cannot take care of your family, you cannot do anything usefull.

So, yes it is harmfull to you after all.

I do not know about whether it is punishable in Islam.
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Abz2000
05-22-2018, 09:03 AM
Originally Posted by umie
I am Dutch...weed is legal over here and I can say I've had enough experience with hash and weed in my youth. It is really not that bad...It is not physically addictive like alcohol or any other hard drugs. So you don't need bigger dosis every time you take it and you will not face much trouble when you try to quit...with hard drugs, your body needs the drugs otherwise you will feel really sick....with cannabis you do not have that problem.
Cannabis is only mentally addictive. you think you need it because you can forget about your life, your problems, your responsibilities, pain, etc...but you will not feel physically miserable if you do not take it.

The harm of cannabis however, like any other drugs, you cannot think clear anymore. you forget about God, you forget your duties...you stop being a useful person to anyone which is anti islamic. you may not endanger other people by using it...(directly) except for just being a bad example and except you are driving in that condition...but is won't benefit you much either...
you just convert into a useless bag of breathing flesh and bones...you cannot go to work in such a condition, you cannot pray, you cannot take care of your family, you cannot do anything usefull.

So, yes it is harmfull to you after all.

I do not know about whether it is punishable in Islam.
:jz: for that excellent testimonial, it does make a person very laid back (subject to tolerance levels), and unwilling to do anything that feels like work, and prayers in such a state feels disrespectful.

Also it pongs out the whole locality with a potent scent when smoke, therefore another point to add would be that those who are not smoking it are receiving positive vibes from smokers -
though logically - the same could be said of tobacco - and not of weed when emulsified in tea via oils.


People - most of us have never met so please do not be afraid to share knowledge, most westerners who get active in Islam usually do so after having experimented with many means medians and modes of life and then tiring from the lack of positive stable stimulation.
The 'ulamaa and fuqahaa too can derive understanding from this sort of discussion since it's often they who are burdened with complaints from parents and are expected to give knowledgeable answers, and those youth who might be tempted when amongst friends who only give the positive side of it will have a better chance for evaluation.

I am being honest when i say that i don't regret having chucked away quite a few fat wraps the day before Ramadan, and find Ramadan much more stimulating and fulfilling - although i do miss the deep and calm reflective state of mind i'd get into when lying back and listening to audio lectures - the same could not be said of alcohol which has a more superficial, distorted and garbled wavelength.
Another thing i believe it does is make a person less guarded and feel hardly any guilt about watching haraam trash - whereas one would feel turmoil and blush before Allah in a normal state of mind - but that may be due to excessiveness - chime in if you can relate to any of this.
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eesa the kiwi
05-22-2018, 09:04 AM
i am a convert to islam, before islam i was junkie, i begged borrowed and stole to get my fix. Ive done things that continue to haunt me to this day. the scars drug abuse left on my life im still trying to fix

my drug abuse started with marijuana. it started innocently enough few joints with friends once in a while next thing you know im smoking them like cigarettes. id have one when i woke up, one before school subhanAllah i didnt need an excuse i was smoking it constantly. i experimented with harder and harder drugs and quickly became hooked. i couldnt really afford said hard drugs so soon was committing crimes to fuel my habit. i was a bright kid with ambition even went to a school for gifted intelligence children soon all i wanted to do was take drugs untill i died

Alhamdulilah i found islam. I came across a copy of the quran and i knew it was from my creator. it scared me and i knew if i didnt get my act togethter i was in serious trouble in the hereafter. so i quit. i embraced islam in 2009 now im nearly nine years clean alhamdulilah. i ditched my loser friends started going to narcotics anonymous and got clean I dont even crave it anymore alhamdulilah.

my old friends are in a miserable state. the drugs have eaten away at them now theres not much left. they used to be dumb kids like me smoking weed occasionally now they are full blown meth addicts.

i know this doesnt happen to everyone who smokes weed, it may not even happen to most but it happens and that is more than enough reason

you may not see the harm in something but when Allah prohibits something its there. SubhanAllah he created the heavens and the earth and you think you know better than him. show some humility we are the ummah of we hear and we obey

look at alcohol for example, what do people get out of it? maybe a good time with friends? now think if it was prohibited (properly not the lame attempt by the yanks) think how much domestic violence would be avoided, how many divorces and deaths on the road. You going to tell me a good time with the lads is worth all that harm

as for the war on drugs being satanic dont be ridiculous. what is satanic is all the lives destroyed by drugs

Sorry if this is a little harsh but if it wasnt for the grace of Allah upon me i would have died a dogs death with a needle in my arm so im a little passionate about this

Peace be upon those that accept guidance

- - - Updated - - -
Reply

beleiver
05-22-2018, 09:08 AM
Originally Posted by azc
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/7755

http://islamqa.org/shafii/shafiifiqh/29978

https://islamqa.info/en/40530?_e_pi_...0%2C5420665117

Alcohol based Perfumes, Deodrants and Creams - IslamQA
I was wondering if alcohol in detergents and creams etc. is permissible to use. ANSWER In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful, In principle, it should be remembered that, alcohol extracted from grapes, dates and barley is decisively unlawful (haram), both its oral intake as well as application, for...
Thanks for the links, but I have read a good few answers to this topic on that site and i find they generally use outdated and incorrect false information regarding some 'intoxicants' and ignore many of the issues I am trying to raise like, can man punish man when the only sin they commit is against their own soul.

Ok i just had a look at the questions, it seems these three you posted were about alcohol in cosmetics and medicine..interesting as Allah says in the Quran there are some benefits to alcohol, which would be i would of thought as a solvent, disinfectant and preservative ?
In Islam's golden age when great scholars pioneered pharmacy and medicine not only were they prescribing medical Marijuana but also using alcohol as a solvent, disinfectant and preservatives in their medicine..

These great men were millennia ahead of their time, not only were most their works destroyed but it would seem forgotten by today's scholars.
Reply

Ümit
05-22-2018, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
i am a convert to islam, before islam i was junkie, i begged borrowed and stole to get my fix. Ive done things that continue to haunt me to this day. the scars drug abuse left on my life im still trying to fix

my drug abuse started with marijuana. it started innocently enough few joints with friends once in a while next thing you know im smoking them like cigarettes. id have one when i woke up, one before school subhanAllah i didnt need an excuse i was smoking it constantly. i experimented with harder and harder drugs and quickly became hooked. i couldnt really afford said hard drugs so soon was committing crimes to fuel my habit. i was a bright kid with ambition even went to a school for gifted intelligence children soon all i wanted to do was take drugs untill i died

Alhamdulilah i found islam. I came across a copy of the quran and i knew it was from my creator. it scared me and i knew if i didnt get my act togethter i was in serious trouble in the hereafter. so i quit. i embraced islam in 2009 now im nearly nine years clean alhamdulilah. i ditched my loser friends started going to narcotics anonymous and got clean I dont even crave it anymore alhamdulilah.

my old friends are in a miserable state. the drugs have eaten away at them now theres not much left. they used to be dumb kids like me smoking weed occasionally now they are full blown meth addicts.

i know this doesnt happen to everyone who smokes weed, it may not even happen to most but it happens and that is more than enough reason

you may not see the harm in something but when Allah prohibits something its there. SubhanAllah he created the heavens and the earth and you think you know better than him. show some humility we are the ummah of we hear and we obey

look at alcohol for example, what do people get out of it? maybe a good time with friends? now think if it was prohibited (properly not the lame attempt by the yanks) think how much domestic violence would be avoided, how many divorces and deaths on the road. You going to tell me a good time with the lads is worth all that harm

as for the war on drugs being satanic dont be ridiculous. what is satanic is all the lives destroyed by drugs

Sorry if this is a little harsh but if it wasnt for the grace of Allah upon me i would have died a dogs death with a needle in my arm so im a little passionate about this

Peace be upon those that accept guidance
What an amazing story...subhanallah you recovered from such a life and found Islam...this does not happen to a lot of people.
a few remarks to your story though:
It sounds like you allowed the increase of the mariuhana dosis, because normally you do not have to increase it to feel the same. "We" usually bought one or two joints for our group (not one joint per person) and that was plenty enough for that day. occasionally we would buy another round extra...but this did not happen much.
years later, everyone from that group got clean from these stuff and adopted a healty muslim worthy life except for two persons...the exact same persons that also experimented with harder drugs back then.
The majority of the group did not feel the need to experiment with harder drugs.

I think it is not only a personal, but also a mix of intellect, opportunity, occasion, and state of mind to try out and get hooked to harder drugs.
if you are regularly among people who use that stuff, and you have the money for it, and you have problems in your life you would like to forget (a weak state of mind) and do not realise that that stuff is dangerous...then you can get hooked.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
i am a convert to islam, before islam i was junkie, i begged borrowed and stole to get my fix. Ive done things that continue to haunt me to this day. the scars drug abuse left on my life im still trying to fix

my drug abuse started with marijuana. it started innocently enough few joints with friends once in a while next thing you know im smoking them like cigarettes. id have one when i woke up, one before school subhanAllah i didnt need an excuse i was smoking it constantly. i experimented with harder and harder drugs and quickly became hooked. i couldnt really afford said hard drugs so soon was committing crimes to fuel my habit. i was a bright kid with ambition even went to a school for gifted intelligence children soon all i wanted to do was take drugs untill i died

Alhamdulilah i found islam. I came across a copy of the quran and i knew it was from my creator. it scared me and i knew if i didnt get my act togethter i was in serious trouble in the hereafter. so i quit. i embraced islam in 2009 now im nearly nine years clean alhamdulilah. i ditched my loser friends started going to narcotics anonymous and got clean I dont even crave it anymore alhamdulilah.

my old friends are in a miserable state. the drugs have eaten away at them now theres not much left. they used to be dumb kids like me smoking weed occasionally now they are full blown meth addicts.

i know this doesnt happen to everyone who smokes weed, it may not even happen to most but it happens and that is more than enough reason

you may not see the harm in something but when Allah prohibits something its there. SubhanAllah he created the heavens and the earth and you think you know better than him. show some humility we are the ummah of we hear and we obey

look at alcohol for example, what do people get out of it? maybe a good time with friends? now think if it was prohibited (properly not the lame attempt by the yanks) think how much domestic violence would be avoided, how many divorces and deaths on the road. You going to tell me a good time with the lads is worth all that harm

as for the war on drugs being satanic dont be ridiculous. what is satanic is all the lives destroyed by drugs

Sorry if this is a little harsh but if it wasnt for the grace of Allah upon me i would have died a dogs death with a needle in my arm so im a little passionate about this

Peace be upon those that accept guidance
What an amazing story...subhanallah you recovered from such a life and found Islam...this does not happen to a lot of people.
a few remarks to your story though:
It sounds like you allowed the increase of the mariuhana dosis, because normally you do not have to increase it to feel the same. "We" usually bought one or two joints for our group (not one joint per person) and that was plenty enough for that day. occasionally we would buy another round extra...but this did not happen much.
years later, everyone from that group got clean from these stuff and adopted a healty muslim worthy life except for two persons...the exact same persons that also experimented with harder drugs back then.
The majority of the group did not feel the need to experiment with harder drugs.

I think it is not only a personal, but also a mix of intellect, opportunity, occasion, and state of mind to try out and get hooked to harder drugs.
if you are regularly among people who use that stuff, and you have the money for it, and you have problems in your life you would like to forget (a weak state of mind) and do not realise that that stuff is dangerous...then you can get hooked.
Reply

beleiver
05-22-2018, 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
i am a convert to islam, before islam i was junkie, i begged borrowed and stole to get my fix. Ive done things that continue to haunt me to this day. the scars drug abuse left on my life im still trying to fix

my drug abuse started with marijuana. it started innocently enough few joints with friends once in a while next thing you know im smoking them like cigarettes. id have one when i woke up, one before school subhanAllah i didnt need an excuse i was smoking it constantly. i experimented with harder and harder drugs and quickly became hooked. i couldnt really afford said hard drugs so soon was committing crimes to fuel my habit. i was a bright kid with ambition even went to a school for gifted intelligence children soon all i wanted to do was take drugs untill i died

Alhamdulilah i found islam. I came across a copy of the quran and i knew it was from my creator. it scared me and i knew if i didnt get my act togethter i was in serious trouble in the hereafter. so i quit. i embraced islam in 2009 now im nearly nine years clean alhamdulilah. i ditched my loser friends started going to narcotics anonymous and got clean I dont even crave it anymore alhamdulilah.

my old friends are in a miserable state. the drugs have eaten away at them now theres not much left. they used to be dumb kids like me smoking weed occasionally now they are full blown meth addicts.

i know this doesnt happen to everyone who smokes weed, it may not even happen to most but it happens and that is more than enough reason

you may not see the harm in something but when Allah prohibits something its there. SubhanAllah he created the heavens and the earth and you think you know better than him. show some humility we are the ummah of we hear and we obey

look at alcohol for example, what do people get out of it? maybe a good time with friends? now think if it was prohibited (properly not the lame attempt by the yanks) think how much domestic violence would be avoided, how many divorces and deaths on the road. You going to tell me a good time with the lads is worth all that harm

as for the war on drugs being satanic dont be ridiculous. what is satanic is all the lives destroyed by drugs

Sorry if this is a little harsh but if it wasnt for the grace of Allah upon me i would have died a dogs death with a needle in my arm so im a little passionate about this

Peace be upon those that accept guidance

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I have seen many friends go down that road to ruin and many more that didn't, they started with weed and went on to harder drugs, because they were in that circle due to the prohibition, ignorance lies, and lack of sound education.
I honestly know tons of people from all over that smoke weed but stay well away from heroin, and they lead happy productive lives.

Because some people go down that road should we ruin the lives of millions and millions of people that suffer from serious ailments or people who use cannabis responsibly because of some that are led astray?
Where in Islam can man oppress man based purely on sin against his own soul?

Edit..congratulations to you btw for quitting your habit and finding Allah, I have seen people go through it and know it's not easy.

Also feel the need to point out in US states where weed is legal and where there were a serious opioid addiction, crime and opioid addiction and prescription med use has all plummeted and the economies are booming.

Independent experts have debunked claims weed is a gateway drug.

http://norml.org/marijuana/fact-shee...gateway-theory
Reply

Ümit
05-22-2018, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by beleiver
I have seen many friends go down that road to ruin and many more that didn't, they started with weed and went on to harder drugs, because they were in that circle due to the prohibition, ignorance lies, and lack of sound education.
I honestly know tons of people from all over that smoke weed but stay well away from heroin, and they lead happy productive lives.
I used to be one of such people. I used to smoke weed almost daily during my college. never lost my focus on my education despite of that. after graduation I married, got a decent job and automatically stopped smoking weed...did not had to do extra effort to quit smoking.

Still. this does not mean it is harmless. Again, The danger of going to harder drugs is still present...you are not being a good example to people...Weed keeps you from your prayers, dua and other daily responsibilities...Weed keeps you from remembering Allah...you are totally not usefull to anyone in that state...etc.

I would say, enough reason to stay away from it and warn the people not to use it.
Originally Posted by beleiver
Because some people go down that road should we ruin the lives of millions and millions of people that suffer from serious ailments or people who use cannabis responsibly because of some that are led astray?
Weed as a medicine...I do not know...if you are really in pain and weed is the only thing that works...then maybe...but still...you are not able to pray if you are stoned and that is a big issue.
anyways, just because you do not get into temptation of trying out other drugs does not mean you are using cannabis responsible.
a responsible decent person does not use cannabis at all.
Originally Posted by beleiver
Where in Islam can man oppress man based purely on sin against his own soul?
Islam does not permit oppression in any way. you cannot compare prohibition with opression.

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Originally Posted by beleiver
I have seen many friends go down that road to ruin and many more that didn't, they started with weed and went on to harder drugs, because they were in that circle due to the prohibition, ignorance lies, and lack of sound education.
I honestly know tons of people from all over that smoke weed but stay well away from heroin, and they lead happy productive lives.
I used to be one of such people. I used to smoke weed almost daily during my college. never lost my focus on my education despite of that. after graduation I married, got a decent job and automatically stopped smoking weed...did not had to do extra effort to quit smoking.

Still. this does not mean it is harmless. Again, The danger of going to harder drugs is still present...you are not being a good example to people...Weed keeps you from your prayers, dua and other daily responsibilities...Weed keeps you from remembering Allah...you are totally not usefull to anyone in that state...etc.

I would say, enough reason to stay away from it and warn the people not to use it.
Originally Posted by beleiver
Because some people go down that road should we ruin the lives of millions and millions of people that suffer from serious ailments or people who use cannabis responsibly because of some that are led astray?
Weed as a medicine...I do not know...if you are really in pain and weed is the only thing that works...then maybe...but still...you are not able to pray if you are stoned and that is a big issue.
anyways, just because you do not get into temptation of trying out other drugs does not mean you are using cannabis responsible.
a responsible decent person does not use cannabis at all.
Originally Posted by beleiver
Where in Islam can man oppress man based purely on sin against his own soul?
Islam does not permit oppression in any way. you cannot compare prohibition with opression.
Reply

Junon
05-22-2018, 01:08 PM
Salaam

Just to add to whats already been said.

Our faith has developed (correctly) a tough policy against intoxicants. Whatever my faults I'm glad i had a proper upbringing and managed to ignored the peer pressure to get involved. You realise just what a waste of time it is.

Cannabis is not harmless I don't know where people get this from, I know there is a powerful lobby who are trying to legalise drugs ($$$$$$ to be made) so maybe that's why its pushed.

Good book on the subject if you can get hold of it.

Blurb

Again and again British politicians, commentators and celebrities intone that 'The War on Drugs has failed'. They then say that this is an argument for abandoning all attempts to reduce drug use through the criminal law.

Peter Hitchens shows that in Britain there has been no serious 'war on drugs' since 1971, when a Tory government adopted a Labour plan to implement the revolutionary Wootton report. This gave cannabis, the most widely used illegal substance, a special legal status as a supposedly 'soft' drug (in fact, Hitchens argues, it is at least as dangerous as heroin and cocaine because of the threat it poses to mental health). It began a progressive reduction of penalties for possession, and effectively disarmed the police.

This process still continues, behind a screen of falsely 'tough' rhetoric from politicians. Far from there being a 'war on drugs', there has been a covert surrender to drugs, concealed behind an official obeisance to international treaty obligations. To all intents and purposes, cannabis is legal in Britain, and other major drugs are not far behind.

In The War We Never Fought, Hitchens uncovers the secret history of the government's true attitude, and the increasing recruitment of the police and courts to covert decriminalisation initiatives, and contrasts it with the rhetoric. Whatever and whoever is to blame for the undoubted mess of Britain's drug policy, it is not 'prohibition' or a 'war on drugs', for neither exists.




A discussion.

Reply

beleiver
05-22-2018, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by umie
I used to be one of such people. I used to smoke weed almost daily during my college. never lost my focus on my education despite of that. after graduation I married, got a decent job and automatically stopped smoking weed...did not had to do extra effort to quit smoking.

Still. this does not mean it is harmless. Again, The danger of going to harder drugs is still present...you are not being a good example to people...Weed keeps you from your prayers, dua and other daily responsibilities...Weed keeps you from remembering Allah...you are totally not usefull to anyone in that state...etc.

I would say, enough reason to stay away from it and warn the people not to use it.
Sorry, but I manage to pray while stoned, now I seldom smoke but over the years I have tried and since basing my prayers and meditation on Islamic prayers too i have prayed stoned and i remember the words and feel like I made the same level of contact with our creator.
And i don't think it does keep me from my daily responsibilities at all, maybe over consumption when it becomes habitual it might for some but i generally find my self going about daily chores with more enthusiasm.
And if anything occasional use makes me remember God more and makes me more grateful for His creation.
Also, Weed consumption is part of the oldest continually religious and spiritual practices and has a long history in Islam.
This all besides the point of though what i really wanted to find out with this thread is where the word intoxicant comes from in Islamic scripture, my take is its a wrong translation or meaning..and i don't mean to be promoting use of any drug, i just can't agree all intoxicants are a sin , i am trying to find out where the Islamic texts that support this are?
Also can a Muslim be against prohibition and what context is prohibition meant is Islam, i can't find any records of Muslims searching each other's homes and go around stealing peoples alcohol stashes?
And Christians could drink and lived in Muslim lands, me to my religion you to yours, prohibition the way its performed today would not make for a peaceful world.


Originally Posted by umie
Weed as a medicine...I do not know...if you are really in pain and weed is the only thing that works...then maybe...but still...you are not able to pray if you are stoned and that is a big issue.
anyways, just because you do not get into temptation of trying out other drugs does not mean you are using cannabis responsible.
a responsible decent person does not use cannabis at all.

Islam does not permit oppression in any way. you cannot compare prohibition with opression.
Weed has to be one of the oldest used medicines known to man, only recently was the endocannabinoid system discovered in our bodies, weed is not just a medicine its has huge therapeutic qualities to our bodies that protect cells from degeneration, cancers, toxins and makes our bodies actually perform better, it enhances the way our cells communicate with each other..

Medical marijuana was prescribed by many a great man back in the golden age of Islam..shame these people are forgotten.

I personally know people who would be dead without weed.

Sorry but to deny anyone this plant and actually raid their homes, search them on the street, steal and imprison and even execute them for a completely nontoxic plant that is therapy and a matter of life and death for many many people is in my eyes serious oppression.

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Reply

Ümit
05-22-2018, 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by beleiver
Sorry, but I manage to pray while stoned, now I seldom smoke but over the years I have tried and since basing my prayers and meditation on Islamic prayers too i have prayed stoned and i remember the words and feel like I made the same level of contact with our creator.
I feel ashamed for praying with the nasty smell of cigarette smoke on my clothes and you are saying that you can pray to God on the same level as when you are sober?
You see the difference? alcoholics also think that they are the best drivers in the world when they are drunk...does not mean that they can actually drive.
Besides of being able to pray....how can you tell me with dry eyes that you do not feel any shame of being in front of God in such a state?
God is not just a friend you can pass your joint to. God is your creator...you should pay a little more respect.
Originally Posted by beleiver
And i don't think it does keep me from my daily responsibilities at all, maybe over consumption when it becomes habitual it might for some but i generally find my self going about daily chores with more enthusiasm.
Can you go to work while being stoned? Can you drive your children to school?
Originally Posted by beleiver
And if anything occasional use makes me remember God more and makes me more grateful for His creation.
Also, Weed consumption is part of the oldest continually religious and spiritual practices and has a long history in Islam.
This all besides the point of though what i really wanted to find out with this thread is where the word intoxicant comes from in Islamic scripture, my take is its a wrong translation or meaning..and i don't mean to be promoting use of any drug, i just can't agree all intoxicants are a sin , i am trying to find out where the Islamic texts that support this are?
this, I agree with you. Neither do I know where this "intoxicants" comes from and what exactly is considered as intoxicant...because caffeine and taurine can possibly also be considered as intoxicants and that would make coffee and tea and energy drinks haram.
Originally Posted by beleiver
Also can a Muslim be against prohibition and what context is prohibition meant is Islam, i can't find any records of Muslims searching each other's homes and go around stealing peoples alcohol stashes?
And Christians could drink and lived in Muslim lands, me to my religion you to yours, prohibition the way its performed today would not make for a peaceful world.

Weed has to be one of the oldest used medicines known to man, only recently was the endocannabinoid system discovered in our bodies, weed is not just a medicine its has huge therapeutic qualities to our bodies that protect cells from degeneration, cancers, toxins and makes our bodies actually perform better, it enhances the way our cells communicate with each other..
it is also harmfull. it can cause a lot of mental problems such as schizophrenia or amnesia.
Originally Posted by beleiver
Medical marijuana was prescribed by many a great man back in the golden age of Islam..shame these people are forgotten.

I personally know people who would be dead without weed.

Sorry but to deny anyone this plant and actually raid their homes, search them on the street, steal and imprison and even execute them for a completely nontoxic plant that is therapy and a matter of life and death for many many people is in my eyes serious oppression.
no one is raiding no ones homes nor execute for using weed. no reason to overreact.
Reply

beleiver
05-22-2018, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by umie
I feel ashamed for praying with the nasty smell of cigarette smoke on my clothes and you are saying that you can pray to God on the same level as when you are sober?
You see the difference? alcoholics also think that they are the best drivers in the world when they are drunk...does not mean that they can actually drive.
Besides of being able to pray....how can you tell me with dry eyes that you do not feel any shame of being in front of God in such a state?
God is not just a friend you can pass your joint to. God is your creator...you should pay a little more respect.
I think Allah is the only one who can Judge on that..
I do think though that daily use as a habit will block that connection.

Originally Posted by umie
Can you go to work while being stoned? Can you drive your children to school?
Regards work it would depend on the work, but yes many jobs i have had i smoking enhances my work.
As for driving lol i have driven 100s thousands of miles while stoned without incident, i have driven and ridden all kinds of vehicles, i know professional drivers top of their game that smoke weed.. It makes m more aware and cautious driver.

Originally Posted by umie
this, I agree with you. Neither do I know where this "intoxicants" comes from and what exactly is considered as intoxicant...because caffeine and taurine can possibly also be considered as intoxicants and that would make coffee and tea and energy drinks haram.
This is the point of the thread, from my research the word in Arabic derives from 'cover' or what covers the mind, which to me is a perfect description of substances to stay away from, all the ones i can think of that cover or close the mind mess people up, but weed to me has the opposite effect of opening the mind, which science supports.
And yes caffeine, as i know through addiction, has its negative effects too..the word 'intoxicant' I doubt is the perfected word of our creator. But the word used in the Quran is.

Originally Posted by umie
it is also harmfull. it can cause a lot of mental problems such as schizophrenia or amnesia.

no one is raiding no ones homes nor execute for using weed. no reason to overreact.
So we are told, one reason this subject is close to my heart is my younger brother would be recorded as a weed causes schizophrenia statistic, which imho is far from the truth , rather he was a victim of the lies and deceptions that go with the war on drugs..

A house he was in was raided, he was dragged down the cells and questioned, he was a naive 17 yo that had no experience dealing with police, he ended up telling on the dealer, as a consequence, he lost his friends and his self-respect and became seriously depressed and alone at that tender age of 17, he had few episodes where my parents sent him to the mental ward, where he was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
What he didn't tell anyone as he didn't want to grass anyone else was he was regularly taking speed, he didn't have schizophrenia but drug-induced psychosis and depression, he just need someone to talk to, not more drugs he didn't need..to cut a long story short, he was addicted to these drugs that covered his mind from his problems for many years until he committed suicide..

I don't think there are many instances if any, where weed alone causes schizophrenia.
But i do think addiction and too much of anything can be bad.
I have lost count how many times my home, vehicle or person have been searched weed/hash being the excuse.

And people are executed or left for dead in jails across the globe for the possession of weed, and many many more suffer due to scented herbs that are a favor from our creator being denied them.

Also need pointing out, prohibition doesn't work, there are far fewer junkies on the streets of Portugal now after they decriminalized.
Reply

Abz2000
05-22-2018, 04:11 PM
Mind altering chemicals are also an integral part of satanic rituals and other shameful deeds, they definitely remove the human fitrah to an extent and drag a person down to a more base fitrah more in tune with other non-human i habitants of earth.

Even though khamr was allowed until the final stage and the prohibition came long after hijrah of the Prophet :saws: to Madinah, it was still spoken of in negative terms throughout the ages and people who indulged in it were seen as anti-social since intoxicants usually indicate a lack of SELF-control. Which friend or social circles would any thinking person want for their child or which son in law would any thinking person want??? Someone who doesn't bother with intoxicants and spending time and money on it? Or someone who spends their time, energy, and effort on intoxicants due to the fact that they give intoxicants a high status in their lives? Would you prefer an employee who consumes intoxicants or one who stays sober?
We'd go back to the blacksmith and perfume seller scenario to evaluate.

I just searched a term and was surprised to see this come up as the first result, didn't even know i had discussed it - especially with all that's happened in between:

Abu Bakr (ra) and alcohol

Umar :ra: on the other hand had violent upbringing issues and was heavy on the drinking scene - and he was the one who set out to bring the head of the Prophet :saws: .....until Allah :swt: guided him due to some goodness He must have seen in him.

Here are some references from the previous scripture despite it's allowance:

Easton's Bible Dictionary says, "The sin of drunkenness ... must have been not uncommon in the olden times, for it is mentioned either metaphorically or literally more than seventy times in the Bible,"[13][100] though some suggest it was a "vice of the wealthy rather than of the poor."[101] Biblical interpreters generally agree that the Hebrew and Christian scriptures condemn ordinary drunkenness as a serious spiritual and moral failing[102] in passages such as these (all from the New International Version):

Proverbs 23:20f: "Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
Isaiah 5:11f: "Woe to those who rise early in the morning to run after their drinks, who stay up late at night till they are inflamed with wine. They have harps and lyres at their banquets, tambourines and flutes and wine, but they have no regard for the deeds of the LORD, no respect for the work of his hands."
Galatians 5:19–21: "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: ... drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Ephesians 5:18: "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit."

And here is a precious gem of information:


Volume 7, Book 69, Number 482:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
On the night Allah's Apostle was taken on a night journey (Miraj) two cups, one containing wine and the other milk, were presented to him at Jerusalem. He looked at it and took the cup of milk. Gabriel said, "Praise be to Allah Who guided you to Al-Fitra (the right path); if you had taken (the cup of) wine, your nation would have gone astray."


Just because we're liable to fall short in times of confusion doesn't mean we should justify that which we know to be wrong or promote that which we know to be less liked by Allah and lower in terms of character.

Atastabdiloona alladhee hua adnaa billadhee hua khair.
And remember ye said: "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said: "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah.This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause.This because they rebelled and went on transgressing. (Surah Al-Baqara, 61)

http://quranindex.net/kelime.php?id=8494


Don't get me wrong - there will most likely always be people who are not connected as strongly to Allah as others, or who fall short sometimes, slaves get lower punishment due to their lack of decision making capabilities, and others who are overly inquisitive and curious, that doesn't mean we should promote lowly substances and portray them as virtues, the abundance of pubs and resulting lewdness in some places is a clear indicator of where such promotion leads.
Looking into the four witnesses ruling should make clear that Islam is well tempered.
The wisdom behind the idolator for the idolatress and the adulter for the adulteress verse is obvious to all who care to think. The fact that cigarette smokers are getting less and less freedoms to fumigate society is a good example of how learning helps put things in perspective - and being arrested for smoking in the tube (i used to arrogantly do it at college age) is not oppression.
May Allah have mercy on us and make it easier for us to repent and follow the best of paths so we can avoid meeting the consequences of our evil actions.
Reply

Abz2000
05-22-2018, 05:17 PM
One thing i don't get though is why i got a 143 score at night whilst stoned silly a few weeks ago, and got 139 just now.

Test 3.
http://www.mon-qi.com/en/iq-test.php

May be possible that weed doesn't affect the ability to think, it just induces passiveness.

Free IQ test - Intelligence quotient - Mon-Qi.com
Test your IQ for free with our IQ tests: full test, detailed correction, no registration required, consideration of age....
Reply

azc
05-22-2018, 05:38 PM
@beleiver

I do think though that daily use as a habit will block that connection
Will you respect this month...?
Reply

beleiver
05-22-2018, 06:42 PM
@Abz2000 wouldn't people that think naturally be more passive?

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Originally Posted by azc
@beleiver



Will you respect this month...?
I started with that intention, i managed the first day without even a coffee or cigarette (and i have a longtime addiction to both) but got into a heated debate with my partner that resulted in me cursing her at the top of my voice:embarrass It was going really well till then and all making sense. I gave to charity that night and prayed for forgiveness.

Its not a great time for me to try Ramadhan for the first time, my partner is away in the evenings and i am here with four young children to look after, Inshala she is going to fast with me for that last two weeks when we are back to normal, she even said she will read the Quran.:shade:
As for weed i think i smoked just a couple of joints all month..And I certainly wouldn't be wanting to get stoned attempting Ramadhan...
Reply

Abz2000
05-22-2018, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by beleiver
@Abz2000 wouldn't people that think naturally be more passive?

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I started with that intention, i managed the first day without even a coffee or cigarette (and i have a longtime addiction to both) but got into a heated debate with my partner that resulted in me cursing her at the top of my voice:embarrass It was going really well till then and all making sense. I gave to charity that night and prayed for forgiveness.

Its not a great time for me to try Ramadhan for the first time, my partner is away in the evenings and i am here with four young children to look after, Inshala she is going to fast with me for that last two weeks when we are back to normal, she even said she will read the Quran.:shade:
As for weed i think i smoked just a couple of joints all month..And I certainly wouldn't be wanting to get stoned attempting Ramadhan...
It is a month of healing and recharging one's faith for the remainder of the year, it's also the easiest month of the year to keep Allah in mind since the whole setup is changed - i know it's very difficult when EVERY ADULT around you is working head over heels to make it look like Allah is absent and every other adult who does empty rituals and appears not to really believe demoralises you.
trying to keep that in mind so the rest of the year goes at least a little better might be useful - like when you're carrying something heavy and yoi keep pushing yourself by telling yourself that it's only the next couple of steps 'til destination.

Eating less helps since the soul never get's a chance to feel comfort in backsliding.
Be honest with yourself....does it ever really leave you satisfied the day or week after as good deeds do?
Reply

Junon
06-20-2018, 08:25 AM
Salaam

What happens when a society adopts a 'casual' attitude towards drugs.

Forget 'evil' dealers. It's time to target the REAL drug villains...

The real drivers of drug crime in this country are the smug and self-satisfied people who buy and use illegal drugs. Yet, somehow, they are the ones who get away with it, even though their actions are severe crimes – in theory.

This has long been my view, but I was moved and pleased to hear Baroness Newlove, cruelly robbed of her brave husband by the violent crime from which nobody is now safe, making this point in the House of Lords. Alas, her powerful words received little attention. Could this be because parts of our media are corrupted by widespread drug abuse? I could not possibly say.

She condemned ‘the middle-class drug users who are funding this wave of violence. City workers who drink their Fairtrade coffee out of a reusable cup during the week think nothing of the supply chain of the stuff they snort up their noses at the weekend. In my view, they are as guilty as the moped riders’.

It is that point about the Fairtrade coffee that seems to me to be so important. People consider themselves to be right-on about climate change and third world poverty and recycle religiously, because they think these things are ethical and good.
Likewise they noisily despise the big greed lobbies which push tobacco, dubious pills, greasy fast food and sugar-laden drinks.

Yet I suspect that, to a man and a woman, they are all in favour of the fashionable campaign to ‘decriminalise’ or ‘regulate’ illegal drugs, especially the ones they like to take. Do they not know that a billionaire lobby (I call it Big Dope) stands behind the campaign to legalise marijuana?

Do they not know that this campaign is terrified of the growing mountains of research which link this supposedly soft drug with permanent mental illness?

And what do they think will be next, once the Big Dope lobby has succeeded, and cannabis is in high street shops, advertised everywhere, and freely available on the internet?

They will say: ‘But wouldn’t you rather these things were sold legally than in the hands of gangsters?’ No, I wouldn’t. Gangsters are foul and dangerous, but they don’t have one 50th of the power, wealth or ability which cynical businessmen have to sell and spread their nasty products. Like tobacco, cannabis and cocaine can never be safe. Let us not make the mistake of making them legal, too. Would cigarettes kill more or fewer people if tobacco were illegal, had never been advertised, could not be sold in shops and was only sold by gangsters? Plainly, they would kill many fewer people. Does ‘regulating’ them now, as the legalisers urge we should do with drugs, make cigarettes less deadly? No, it does not. They kill just the same.

We go on all the time about cartels and evil dealers and how they should be stamped out. But they never are.

This is because we forget the fact that the source of all this crime is in our midst.

It is the thousands of selfish people, with more money than sense, who buy illegal drugs and sustain the whole great stinking heap of wickedness which they bring into being.

They should be made to be ashamed of themselves, and to fear the law, made for the benefit of all, which they callously break.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And more debate on the medical uses of Cannabis.

Who can fail to be moved by parents who believe that cannabis oil will help their stricken children? And who cannot be sympathetic to sufferers from MS and similar afflictions who believe that the drug in some form is good for them?

But compassion should not close our minds to fact and logic. You should know some important things. Cannabis has risks, which may well outweigh any good it does. The British Government has no hardline dogmatic objection to testing the medical properties of cannabis. It has licensed at least two drugs made from the cannabis plant, and there is a special legal cannabis farm at a secret location in Kent, to supply the makers of one of them.

But perhaps, above all, note that the American Keith Stroup, a veteran campaigner for legal marijuana for recreational purposes, gave the game away long ago. In a February 6, 1979 interview with the American university newspaper The Emory Wheel, he said he and his comrades planned to use medical marijuana as a red herring to get pot a good name. It may have been the biggest red herring ever.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
Reply

beleiver
06-20-2018, 09:03 AM
no offense @junnon but that Hitchens fellow is a professional liar and a hypocrite, I really don't care for the bile that man spews.

Still looking for the word in Arabic for Intoxicant and the context used in Quran and Hadith?
Reply

Junon
06-20-2018, 09:25 AM
Salaam

Originally Posted by beleiver
no offense @junnon but that Hitchens fellow is a professional liar and a hypocrite, I really don't care for the bile that man spews.

Still looking for the word in Arabic for Intoxicant and the context used in Quran and Hadith?
Ah starting a sentence starts with 'no offence' (why?), and thats a lot of ad hominem on your part, which means he must be hitting the mark to garner such a reaction.

When it comes to this subject just want to follow your desires and your looking for rationalisations for it. (Were all young once)

I know this is hard, but this is what it comes down to, drugs are bad, they distract they befuddle your mind and they are not harmless, its best to stay away from it and do something productive.

You can twist and turn but its simple as that.
Reply

beleiver
06-20-2018, 09:48 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam



Ah starting a sentence starts with 'no offence' (why?), and thats a lot of ad hominem on your part, which means he must be hitting the mark to garner such a reaction.

When it comes to this subject just want to follow your desires and your looking for rationalisations for it. (Were all young once)

I know this is hard, but this is what it comes down to, drugs are bad, they distract they befuddle your mind and they are not harmless, its best to stay away from it and do something productive.

You can twist and turn but its simple as that.
I started with no offense because i noted you have posted Hitchens works before on the site so you must admire and believe him..people often take offense when people they agree with are called liars, i called him a hypocrite as he drinks alcohol, a known dangerous drug, undeniably more damaging than say caffeine or cannabis or even banned chemical drugs.

My desire is for the Truth, so can anyone tell me what this word 'intoxicant' is in Arabic and what context the word is used in Islam? What rationale is there for forceful prohibition and punishment of those that might only wrong their own soul.
Reply

Ümit
06-20-2018, 10:03 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam

What happens when a society adopts a 'casual' attitude towards drugs.

Forget 'evil' dealers. It's time to target the REAL drug villains...

The real drivers of drug crime in this country are the smug and self-satisfied people who buy and use illegal drugs. Yet, somehow, they are the ones who get away with it, even though their actions are severe crimes – in theory.
This is not entirely true. Drugs are illegal, and people who use drugs will get arrested when they got busted, but since this group is so big, there are a lot of drug users who get away with it.
the other part of this view is about addiction. since drugs can be addictive it is not correct to entirely blame the users all the fault of this drugs issue. once hooked, you cannot stop...you cannot easily stop buying and using drugs if you are addicted to it., even though you want to.
So, yes...ignorant drugs users are to blame for this huge illegal drugs market...but to say that every drug user equals drug villian...that is not true.

Originally Posted by Junon
This has long been my view, but I was moved and pleased to hear Baroness Newlove, cruelly robbed of her brave husband by the violent crime from which nobody is now safe, making this point in the House of Lords. Alas, her powerful words received little attention. Could this be because parts of our media are corrupted by widespread drug abuse? I could not possibly say.

She condemned ‘the middle-class drug users who are funding this wave of violence. City workers who drink their Fairtrade coffee out of a reusable cup during the week think nothing of the supply chain of the stuff they snort up their noses at the weekend. In my view, they are as guilty as the moped riders’.
I agree, with the exclusion of the ones who want to stop, but can't. people can make mistakes in their lives...but in this case, to rectify this mistake is not so easy unfortunately.
Originally Posted by Junon


It is that point about the Fairtrade coffee that seems to me to be so important. People consider themselves to be right-on about climate change and third world poverty and recycle religiously, because they think these things are ethical and good.
Likewise they noisily despise the big greed lobbies which push tobacco, dubious pills, greasy fast food and sugar-laden drinks.

Yet I suspect that, to a man and a woman, they are all in favour of the fashionable campaign to ‘decriminalise’ or ‘regulate’ illegal drugs, especially the ones they like to take. Do they not know that a billionaire lobby (I call it Big Dope) stands behind the campaign to legalise marijuana?

Do they not know that this campaign is terrified of the growing mountains of research which link this supposedly soft drug with permanent mental illness?

And what do they think will be next, once the Big Dope lobby has succeeded, and cannabis is in high street shops, advertised everywhere, and freely available on the internet?

They will say: ‘But wouldn’t you rather these things were sold legally than in the hands of gangsters?’ No, I wouldn’t. Gangsters are foul and dangerous, but they don’t have one 50th of the power, wealth or ability which cynical businessmen have to sell and spread their nasty products. Like tobacco, cannabis and cocaine can never be safe. Let us not make the mistake of making them legal, too. Would cigarettes kill more or fewer people if tobacco were illegal, had never been advertised, could not be sold in shops and was only sold by gangsters? Plainly, they would kill many fewer people. Does ‘regulating’ them now, as the legalisers urge we should do with drugs, make cigarettes less deadly? No, it does not. They kill just the same.
I come from The Netherlands, and I have some experience with cannabis. last time I used cannabis was 15 years ago, and I do not plan to use it again. But if you ask me, what would you choose...1 cannabis being legal instead of alcohol, or 2 alcohol being legal instead of cannabis, I would choose option 1 without hesitation.
Cannabis is a softdrug. It can be mentally addictive...but not physically. users of cannabis are usually relaxed and pretty harmless. the permanent mental illness on long term is one of the fewer dangers of cannabis.

Alcohol however, is a hard drugs...both mentally and physically addictive. users of Alcohol are often agressive. not to mention the long list of illnesses alcohol causes on long term.

I am not saying that cannabis to be legalized...but i think it is much better than alcohol so I think it is wrong that alcohol is legal and cannabis not...at least alcohol should then be illegal too...but nobody would dare to start such a campaign.
Originally Posted by Junon

We go on all the time about cartels and evil dealers and how they should be stamped out. But they never are.

This is because we forget the fact that the source of all this crime is in our midst.
The 'source' as you prefer to call them is a very large group of drug users...it is nice you have this view, but how did you plan to fight against this?
If you want to chop down a tree, would you start at the very top and take it down branch for branch? and it is a hug tree, or would you just go for the treetrunk?
Originally Posted by Junon
It is the thousands of selfish people, with more money than sense, who buy illegal drugs and sustain the whole great stinking heap of wickedness which they bring into being.

They should be made to be ashamed of themselves, and to fear the law, made for the benefit of all, which they callously break.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And more debate on the medical uses of Cannabis.

Who can fail to be moved by parents who believe that cannabis oil will help their stricken children? And who cannot be sympathetic to sufferers from MS and similar afflictions who believe that the drug in some form is good for them?

But compassion should not close our minds to fact and logic. You should know some important things. Cannabis has risks, which may well outweigh any good it does. The British Government has no hardline dogmatic objection to testing the medical properties of cannabis. It has licensed at least two drugs made from the cannabis plant, and there is a special legal cannabis farm at a secret location in Kent, to supply the makers of one of them.

But perhaps, above all, note that the American Keith Stroup, a veteran campaigner for legal marijuana for recreational purposes, gave the game away long ago. In a February 6, 1979 interview with the American university newspaper The Emory Wheel, he said he and his comrades planned to use medical marijuana as a red herring to get pot a good name. It may have been the biggest red herring ever.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
Reply

ChosenTCO
06-20-2018, 11:40 AM
We mustn't let our baser instinct of anger get the better of us. Learn about addiction before throwing judgement onto those who are addicted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg

Addiction - YouTube
What causes addiction? Easy, right? Drugs cause addiction. But maybe it is not that simple. This video is adapted from Johann Hari's New York Times best-sell......
Reply

Eric H
06-21-2018, 10:31 AM
Greetings and peace be with you beleiver;

Originally Posted by beleiver
Its not a great time for me to try Ramadhan for the first time,
I gave up smoking while I was probably at the lowest point in my life, when things were going very wrong for me, that was thirty seven years ago.

The dates for Ramadan are set, so regardless of whether you are feeling good, bad, strong or weak, this is the time to give things up. Allah has set these struggles because he knows we need help, if you look on Ramadan as a gift and not as a burden, it can help you change.

When you fight and overcome your own demons, you become stronger. The best time to start is when you are feeling low, this is because, there is a recognition that your addictions are not the route to recovery, rather your abstinence is.

Blessings,
Eric
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