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fschmidt
12-08-2018, 04:14 PM
This is a generic message that I plan to post to all forums where I am subscribed. My dominant passion in life is my hatred of modern Western culture which I consider to be pure evil. There is no point for me to participate in any forum where no one shares my view of modern Western culture. Therefore I am asking - Does anyone here hate modern Western culture? If not, I will leave this forum.
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xboxisdead
12-08-2018, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
This is a generic message that I plan to post to all forums where I am subscribed. My dominant passion in life is my hatred of modern Western culture which I consider to be pure evil. There is no point for me to participate in any forum where no one shares my view of modern Western culture. Therefore I am asking - Does anyone here hate modern Western culture? If not, I will leave this forum.

This vote system is to be honest....silly. Hating Western culture is no different than hating Eastern culture than hating Chinese culture, than hating Japanese culture, etc. The problem with this vote is you put culture in it. All cultures are defective and have bad issues on them and need improvement and in many cases have dark histories behind them and or have evil in them somewhere or another.

I would change the OP subject to something better.

"Do you believe all the evil in the world is because we are distancing ourselves from the path of Allah and following our whims and desires and following cultures instead of following Qura'an and Sunnah?"

The above there makes total sense. All social ills and issues and oppression are because we are distancing ourselves from the path of Allah. Not culture. If "culture" contradict with Islam then we don't follow the culture...period. Culture only represent our certain habit styles and what entertainments we watch and view, but how we dress and interact with people should be followed by the footsteps of our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) ....culture SHOULD NOT represent or dictate the way of living up to and including politics. Culture should not be the one that says gender roles, or distribution of wealth, or how to treat people, or how to worship or who to worship, or how marriage works or how we treat our families our parents, etc.

The biggest cause of disaster in our wake is we have put too much importance in culture. And as you can see such thing can be replaced by other cultures...look at Saudi Arabia as a great example of it.
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happymuslim
12-08-2018, 07:24 PM
Yes, I think I’m with you on this one. I’ve grown up in the west and I’ve slowly began to despise their ways as time progressed.
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fschmidt
12-08-2018, 07:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by happymuslim
Yes, I think I’m with you on this one. I’ve grown up in the west and I’ve slowly began to despise their ways as time progressed.
Thank you. So I will remain on this forum. I am very interested in finding ways to form moral communities that would be predominantly Muslim, and I will report what I find in this forum.
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urkahnkhan
12-08-2018, 08:42 PM
Hate is a strong word. I can only speak for myself as someone who grow up his entire life in the western world and in fact I know very little about my culture I would say I don't see any benefits in the western culture except disaster and loss.

I see it rather as an unfortunate life style and way of thinking. I pity these who are blinded by it because fully knowing what is on the otherside of life's journey end tunnel! It's not looking good for people who believe in the western way of life. I can't help but see them as people throwing themselves off a cliff and then landing inside a volcano. If you truly examine it inside and out than you will realize that this qoute summarize it all.. ''Jumping from a cliff above an active volcano''

Gays have more rights than decent people and I have also found out that as time passes by it goes more and more to the dogs. Example Kevin Hart just recently stepped down from his hosting gig and apologized for anti-gay tweets he made years ago. Thats what I call hitting the bottom of the barrel.

If you knew for a fact what is on the other end of life like I do than you would have fully agreed with me today and again I would say hate is a strong word but rather an unfortunate lifestyle and way of thinking but the people who are involved with this can't see and won't stop seeing it unless guidance reaches them.

Whomever Allah guides none can misguide and whomever Allah misguides none can guide
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xboxisdead
12-08-2018, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by urkahnkhan
Hate is a strong word. I can only speak for myself as someone who grow up his entire life in the western world and in fact I know very little about my culture I would say I don't see any benefits in the western culture except disaster and loss.

I see it rather as an unfortunate life style and way of thinking. I pity these who are blinded by it because full knowing what is on the otherside of life's journey end tunnel? it's not looking good for people who believe in the western way of life. I can't help but see them as people throwing themselves off a cliff and then landing inside a volcano. If you truly examine it inside and out than you will realize that this qoute summarize it all.. ''Jumping from a cliff above an active volcano''

Gays have more rights than decent people and I have also found out that as time passes by it goes more and more to the dogs. Example Kevin Hart just recently stepped down from his host gig and apologized for anti-gay tweets he made years ago. Thats what I call hitting the bottom of the barrel
Oh the West is more than appraising gays. It is about hating men and boys as well. The #metoo is morphing into a nice hideous monster. Women will be glorified for aborting baby boys, lesbianism will be the norm here and men are fighting like suffocation to get their rights as each breath they lose more and more of it. The concept of father rights and organization for fatherhood only exist in the Western world. I have never seen fathers right advocate group in any Muslim country in the world. That tells you something...doesn't it?

Soon having sex with little children in the Western world will be glorified and become legalized. You know how it started right? It started at the beginning....a group of people said..."You know...I don't like the idea that it says in the Qura'an that male inherit more than female...so I am going to start here by saying male and female inherit 50/50." <-- It started right here...this is it...this is the beginning of it all. That morphed into the Western world as you know it. Remember we are all children of Adam...Caucasian western people are not some people that came from an alien spaceship and are not human beings (i.e, the Romans and European and Greek people). We somehow have this misconception that they are not human beings and they are an alien species or an entire different species all together and the rest of the world are human beings who came from Adam or for some reason these Roman's and Greeks and European people sprouted from the soul of the Western land like bunch of trees and spread like weeds or something. Not really! Not at all! The origin of them always end up back son of Adam because we all come from Adam and we are all his children ...we simply had disagreement...moved on to different land and formed countries there and spread out as we speak. But we all started from a central point before spreading out and forming our own culture and civilization and and and....

Well...that main center point is the disagreement where everything started and that is the disbelieve in Allah, in his verses and in his prophets....and it had evolved to where we are. Observe the disbelieves how they speak about the Qura'an and about Allah and his prophets.......you really honestly believe from such evil source any good will come out of them???!!

Now I want you to watch any of our Arab leaders and take good look in what they say about rule of Allah! If one of them announces that inheritances is 50/50 instead of what is said in Qura'an and you like it and say yeah I want that and join it...you have left fold of Islam and you are now worshiping that man in TV instead of Allah. If people want to worship a man instead of Allah...Allah WILL DESTROY you in this world before the afterlife and throw you to eternal hellfire. Don't think for a second that he will not do it.
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fschmidt
12-08-2018, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by urkahnkhan
Hate is a strong word.
"Dislike" is good enough for me.

I pity these who are blinded by it because fully knowing what is on the otherside of life's journey end tunnel!
As a non-Muslim who doesn't know what happens after death, I would say that the harm done by modern culture to this life is bad enough to dislike it.
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anatolian
12-08-2018, 10:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
... There is no point for me to participate in any forum where no one shares my view of modern Western culture...
These kind of discussion forums are exactly for this purpose. Even if no ones shares your views you debate with them to defend and rpove your point. Be the black sheep in the herd of all white sheep.
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Eric H
12-08-2018, 11:14 PM
Greetings and peace be with you fschmidt;

My dominant passion in life is my hatred of modern Western culture which I consider to be pure evil.
Like Oscar Wilde famously said, I can resist everything...............except temptation.

Sadly there is no way to remove temptation from any society, drugs, drink, casual sex, power, greed. Truthfully how can you remove them? The most you can hope to do is to fight your own demons, become the change you want to see. If you change yourself, then maybe you might influence a few others within your family or community.

In the spirit of praying for a just and compassionate world,

Eric
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Zafran
12-09-2018, 02:43 AM
salaam

western culture is like any other culture it has its good and bad bits. Now modernity (and post modernity) I have plenty of issues with which by the way doesn't just infect the west but all over the planet. One cannot deny some of the success of modernity so a nuanced critic would be more sensible.

I would also advice you to stay on this forum just to check out what people think who agree and disagree with you to get a more informative perspective.
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Abz2000
12-09-2018, 05:15 AM
cul·ture
/ˈkəlCHər/
noun
1.
the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively:
"20th century popular culture"
synonyms:
the arts, the humanities, intellectual achievement(s), intellectual activity, literature, ... more
2.
the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group:
"Caribbean culture"
synonyms:
civilization, society, way of life, lifestyle, customs, ... more
verb
1.
maintain (tissue cells, bacteria, etc.) in conditions suitable for growth.




cult
/kəlt/
noun
1.
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object:
"the cult of St. Olaf"






2
values

Principles or standards of behaviour; one's judgement of what is important in life.
‘they internalize their parents' rules and values’





I believe that western "culture" - and by extention any culture which has been infected with trends set by hollywood and washington which are not of God -are corrupt and decadent (though i sometimes find myself prey to vices of the lower animate being). I believe that it is less hypocritical to see it as it is and to accept wrong as wrong and right as right
- rather than to attempt to portray smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol and other intoxicants, falling prey to unbridled animalistic social practices which have been limited and fine tuned by human communities with God's assistance and guidance, and to practice greedy corrupt capitalism over just morals -
(this is usually done to hide personal failings, wrongdoings, and weaknesses, due to personal insecuriies and a will to appear carefree instead of embarassed and on the guilty seat).

Instead of telling my children that i smoke because cigareettes are firm and round and because i'm free and independent and like to relax - i simply tell them that it's a bad and costly habit which i picked up as a youngster and which i plan to stop doing someday, and that they should never learn the habit due to it's addictive qualities and the fact that unlike non-smokers - smokers often get agitated when they don't smoke.

Usury is another element of western non-muslim culture which is destroying the economies and moral fabric of the people of the planet, and until this is admitted by thinkers - the problem of criminals setting the trends and running the cults via mass media and puppet leaderships and fake democracies will get worse until almost EVERYONE on the planet lives under tyranny and is complaining to and begging God for justice and assistance like the israelites under pharaoh and the downtrodden commoners and slaves under the
Makkan leadership.

Anyways - ultimately it's a learning process and it's better to sort things correctly in the brain instead of deceiving ourselves through flawed vindication.


The following lucky strikes adverts give a good indication as to the mind-flow of western culture and the method in which following forefathers and respected people are used to create acceptance of a given commodity/idea.

Attachment 6567

Attachment 6568

Just? Right? Correct? Good?
How ro measure?

Before someone else gets it first!

A childish cult who believe their "dad in heaven" (who they wish never existed) left the confectionary and drugs cabinet open when he left.
Thing is He's not dad and the indulgent person's own physical and psychological health and social abilities will decline if the books aren't followed.
And judgement remains.

Ask h w bush if you like..... he knows now.

https://www.newsweek.com/george-w-bu...whiskey-708653

George H. W. Bush is a lead character on the cast of Lil' Bush, he plays the father of George W. Bush and teaches him to to be a "Decider" and blame his problems on Donald Rumsfeld and Usama bin Ladin, yet he fails to teach him diplomacy and the importance of peace and hope.


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emem.masorong
12-11-2018, 01:42 AM
I do not hate them. In fact, I am thankful in some of it's aspects. I love them. You know love... Love is... From Allah.
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xboxisdead
12-11-2018, 02:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by emem.masorong
I do not hate them. In fact, I am thankful in some of it's aspects. I love them. You know love... Love is... From Allah.
You have me thinking....what part of the Western culture you love? You said you love them, right? Which part of it you love?
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DanEdge
12-11-2018, 05:12 PM
Greetings,

Western culture has: produced the Backstreet Boys and Beethoven, Billy Graham and Martin Luther, institutionalized and abolished slavery, led to the birth of Nazism and it's utter destruction, communism and individualism, created flat earth theory and quantum mechanics, stick figure theatre and Les Miserable. Hate us, love us, as you like. Or use your free-thinking mind to evaluate all these contradictory elements, embrace those you profit from, reject those you despise. Western culure is so broad, any perception of it seems to say more about the perceiver than the object. It's a wild, insteresting, terrifying, wonderful world out there.

As for me -- a product of the West -- I love it. I'm one of Anatolian's black sheep on this forum. I embrace no particular religion, have no problem with gays (they're family, after all), love to sing and rap in public, hate Republicans and Democrats equally, and I'm probably the best freestyle hip hip dancer you know. :D

Dan Edge
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fschmidt
12-11-2018, 05:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Western culture has: produced ...
I asked about modern Western culture, not traditional Western culture. I love traditional Western culture but I hate modern Western culture. Western culture started to decay around 1920 and became more bad than good around 2005. By now it is pure evil and is incapable of producing anything good.
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M.I.A.
12-11-2018, 09:51 PM
i cant really hate it,

so many cultures around the world are flawed.

i can understand that it has little bearing on people who are unwilling to follow it, western culture at present is full of personal choice for those that are able to make personal choices.. and that cant be said about all nations.


i personally changed simply due to the fear of god.. i genuinely believe that being steadfast and morally upright... limits the amount of damage other people can do to you.. in their unawareness.

and i have encountered that in people regardless of the religion or the race they belong too.


(And thats when you should say... but allah swt is the one who punishes or forgives.. not people! .....yes quite.)




...i dont expect you to do the same, because thats not who you are.


really i would say that "we" deceive ourselves.. giving importance to the influences of media and pop culture, when in reality the future is written in our own actions.

you hate something which is non existent..

only those that follow its calling actualize it.


in reality you cant fight against it ..as fighting is portrayed to you.

you cant convince people to change based on what you say is a better way.





but you have an understanding of how things have changed over the decades..

and they are constantly changing.




hate in itself is not a bad word, but responding to the things you hate is in essence the deciding factor of what goes on tomorrow..

and teaching people not to slip in a world of punishment is more important than hating a world of punishment.



...at present.


but genuinely i have no idea what you put forward for tomorrow.


ironically the religion was not sent to a perfect people.

i have no idea what made them change.




maybe it is all just violence and bloodshed.

maybe its just my conscience that brings me down for days when i do wrong or my wandering mind that perceives your intellect in your words.. i was totally unaware of it for a long time.


..everything has a habit of taking on a life of its own. words, pictures, actions... whatever you choose.






....i keep wanting to put a star wars quote in! plz stap!
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xboxisdead
12-12-2018, 02:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Greetings,

Western culture has: produced the Backstreet Boys and Beethoven, Billy Graham and Martin Luther, institutionalized and abolished slavery, led to the birth of Nazism and it's utter destruction, communism and individualism, created flat earth theory and quantum mechanics, stick figure theatre and Les Miserable. Hate us, love us, as you like. Or use your free-thinking mind to evaluate all these contradictory elements, embrace those you profit from, reject those you despise. Western culure is so broad, any perception of it seems to say more about the perceiver than the object. It's a wild, insteresting, terrifying, wonderful world out there.

As for me -- a product of the West -- I love it. I'm one of Anatolian's black sheep on this forum. I embrace no particular religion, have no problem with gays (they're family, after all), love to sing and rap in public, hate Republicans and Democrats equally, and I'm probably the best freestyle hip hip dancer you know. :D

Dan Edge
Well...only this world is your paradise...so you better find a place in this world that you love and make you happy and content. If it is the Western world then so be it.
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CarefulThinker
12-12-2018, 03:26 AM
I have noticed that the moral values of society, in reference to western society, is going downhill, at a exponential rate. Moral values is in my opinion the foundation of any society, once those moral values deteriorate, the foundation crumbles. And the modern western society values of today are just disgusting. I don't know if this makes any sense, but it feels as if the world is literally being flipped upside down. We see it today, bad is called good, and good is bad. Any people that want to have good morals are considered to be intolerant. Today it is all about tolerance.
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xboxisdead
12-12-2018, 04:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CarefulThinker
I have noticed that the moral values of society, in reference to western society, is going downhill, at a exponential rate. Moral values is in my opinion the foundation of any society, once those moral values deteriorate, the foundation crumbles. And the modern western society values of today are just disgusting. I don't know if this makes any sense, but it feels as if the world is literally being flipped upside down. We see it today, bad is called good, and good is bad. Any people that want to have good morals are considered to be intolerant. Today it is all about tolerance.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why. The mere fact you are baffled and shocked and don't know what sort of unnatural energy that is doing to this make me for full confidence be set in my believe that Western world is going down to destruction and there is zero hope for it to be ever fixed.

I am going to put it here in quotation to seal it on stone and not paper: "The Western/culture world have zero chance of fixing itself. Zero!"

So I am not losing sleep. I don't care what happens to the Western culture. It could go inflames for all I care. But if you want me to help little bit in why it is in that stage....I will be nice....."1) The Western world is a world that have distance itself from the path of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa). It is a worth of Atheism, agnostic, Christianity, Jewish, etc. Anything but Islam!" As such you people worship man instead of worshiping Allah. They worship the imperfect instead of worshiping the perfect and they obey the laws of the imperfect to the perfect. They worship a creation with a gender..instead of the creator who have no gender who is not male or female. They worship the creation who have a beginning and an end instead of the creator who have no beginning or an end. They worship a creation who begot a son instead of the creator who DOES NOT begot a son or a daughter. They worship a creation who have need to be confined in a space and need oxygen and gravity and must be confined in an atmospheric planet, instead of a creator who is not confined in a space, who does not need oxygen or an environment. So because of that alone and sufficient is that reason is why the Western world and all other non-Muslim world will be destroyed and will fail.

Now if you want another reason and to be honest there should be no other reason because everything else connects back to the main reason ...but I will say it still....you remove men, destroy men, emasculate men, remove fatherhood from families and you have what you have. No more morals. It is a wild forest. I am going to give hint to all non-Muslim people out there who hate Islam or Muslims...you want to destroy any Muslim country or country...attack the young youth men and boys. Destroy them with sex, drugs and alcohol and remove fathers from family and you have destroyed the country and wiped it clean and you did not even need to throw a bomb on a country. The non-Muslim people know this already and they are targeting the Muslim country.
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fschmidt
12-12-2018, 11:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CarefulThinker
We see it today, bad is called good, and good is bad.
Isaiah 5:20

Any people that want to have good morals are considered to be intolerant. Today it is all about tolerance.
Today it is all about lies and what is called tolerance is actually intolerance. Western culture is much more intolerant now than in the past, but it is intolerant of good and tolerant of bad/evil. If you criticize evil, you are guilty of "hate speech". If you address a man who pretends to be woman as "he" then you are guilty of mis-pronouning. If you refuse to bake wedding cakes for marriages that you don't consider valid, you will be punished. And if you post anything truthful to a forum of modern culture, you will be banned.
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keiv
12-12-2018, 12:01 PM
I was born in the US, in what was once a town which ended up growing to be the largest city in the county, and have lived here my whole life. Once upon a time, it was a great place to live. There really isn't much of a culture here as you would see in other places/countries. As I've gotten older, I've become resistant to the western style way of life and basically became an "isolationist", so to speak. The politics, the culture and the way a lot of people view life here is completely different than how I see it and is anything but Islamic. People claim to be tolerant, but those same people will ridicule you for disagreeing with them. There's a lot of things I disagree with in regards to western way of life but sometimes it can be hard putting it in words, or at least keeping it short.
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DanEdge
12-12-2018, 01:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
I asked about modern Western culture, not traditional Western culture.
The latter gave birth to the former. I could have made a similar list using only examples from 1920 on. The biggest change I see in recent history is that technology has given us the ability to witness and to commiserate with others on the world's greatest heights and lowest depths.

I maintain that one's view of modern Western culture reveals more about the perceiver than the perceived. You, me, and many others on this forum are products of that culture.

I have questions for the man, born of Western culture, who has grown to hate it: Are there elements of your Self that you hate and consider evil? Do you blame your cultural environment for evil, shameful desires within yourself? Do you believe these elements of self would not be present had you been born in a different place, or a different time?

These questions may not apply to you. They are intended to be philosophical and introspective. I hope they make you think as much as they made me.

Dan Edge
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CarefulThinker
12-12-2018, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead
Now if you want another reason and to be honest there should be no other reason because everything else connects back to the main reason ...but I will say it still....you remove men, destroy men, emasculate men, remove fatherhood from families and you have what you have. No more morals. It is a wild forest. I am going to give hint to all non-Muslim people out there who hate Islam or Muslims...you want to destroy any Muslim country or country...attack the young youth men and boys. Destroy them with sex, drugs and alcohol and remove fathers from family and you have destroyed the country and wiped it clean and you did not even need to throw a bomb on a country. The non-Muslim people know this already and they are targeting the Muslim country.
And this is the real big issue I see in modern western culture. The traditional family, where children have both a mother and a father is being eradicated, and today we see this a lot. When a child is born, that child has the right to both a mother and a father.

And you also made a very good point on the sex drugs and alcohol as well. I knew someone who was an alcoholic addiction and believe the liver failure was the result, and person died as well.

Modern western society now is so broken in morals it is like comparing a completely smashed up car. It is a write-off.



format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt


Today it is all about lies and what is called tolerance is actually intolerance. Western culture is much more intolerant now than in the past, but it is intolerant of good and tolerant of bad/evil. If you criticize evil, you are guilty of "hate speech". If you address a man who pretends to be woman as "he" then you are guilty of mis-pronouning. If you refuse to bake wedding cakes for marriages that you don't consider valid, you will be punished. And if you post anything truthful to a forum of modern culture, you will be banned.
You too made some strong points especially with this gender pronoun garbage. Truth today is new hate speech. I know about cases of what happen to people who refuse to bake wedding cakes for marriages said people did not agree with and from what I understand were fined severely. I have recall reading numerous articles in New York City that businesses can be fined up to $250,000 just for mis-gendering a person. Is this for real?

And now the icing on the cake, recently I read about how a father in Texas is accused of abuse for not agreeing with his ex-wife that his son is a transgender girl. This is insane. A father gets accused of abuse for calling is son a boy? What is going on? Has all sense and reason been lost? When I see more and more craziness such as this, it just further proves that modern western society has just lost all aspects of reality.



One thing I know, is that history repeats itself. Based on all my research, my private studies, modern western society is in my opinion, modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. And those who know their history, know what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Zafran
12-13-2018, 12:31 AM
salaam

You might be shocked but the west isn't entirely lost, Yes there is a crazy left wing surge where the lack of family, morality is destroying people all over the place. However its still held better then most places on earth - Most countries are either totalitarian like China, Russia or the mid east or are governed so badly that they are failed societies. Granted people may have there culture in some of these places still intact but for how long? Consumerism, Porn and weird left wing ideas are a universal problem and its just matter of time until it effects them.

Many Muslims in the west even support anti Islamic stuff in the west like Gender being a construct or pro LBGT stuff. It shows that the rot is universal problem and Muslims are not immune to it at all.

Another thing I believe is that Atheism has also played a big role in the downward spiral in the west - The west ended up doing well technological and materially but at a cost of its soul.
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xboxisdead
12-13-2018, 03:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CarefulThinker
And this is the real big issue I see in modern western culture. The traditional family, where children have both a mother and a father is being eradicated, and today we see this a lot. When a child is born, that child has the right to both a mother and a father.

.................
I am unsure if you are aware of this but...in Islam...Allah's law....if a man commit zina (fornication, sex outside of marriage) and the zaniyah (the female fornicator, outside of marriage) she gets pregnant...that child is 100% the PROPERTY of the mother. The child inherit from the mother 100% alone. The child have the mother's last name alone and the mother have 100% full right to deny the man from seeing the child, raise the child or have any communication with that child....
In additional to the mother having 100% right to that child....the man is not obliged to pay a single dime to that child. if he refused...it is 100% his right and if anyone attempt to force the money out of him against his will..you guys are committing oppression to that man and STEALING FROM HIM ...simple as fact. You cannot force him. If he wants willingly however that is up to him..but he have no obligation, duty to do it and he will not be punished for that in the afterlife...his punishment is of course committing the Zina part and so is her punishment as well.

One of the biggest cause of destruction of family in the West is the idea that he is the father of that child outside of marriage and the laws in the West will force him to pay child support and if he refuses he goes to prison, he will labeled a deadbeat dad and he is considered worse than a child molester. He will not find jobs, people will throw rocks at him and we should hang him by the neck. Western world is a world of oppression and hate and I don't see what part of culture in the West you guys really want to protect.

Actually...now I think about it.....WHAT IS THE WESTERN culture that anyone here is talking about that we are all cowering in fear that it is getting wiped? Is it in the old times that people did not shower for a complete year? Is it the wild west of shooting people? Is it back then women where considered witches and they where burned in a stick, culture? I recalled back then in the Western world back in the olden days...girls where not allowed to act and sing...and bare in mind in Islam that holds true as well...however...what Western world did back then which goes against Islam..is have little boys dress as little girls and act and sing and do homosexual act in name of acting....is that the part we wish to save?

I am not finding a real culture in the Western world....can someone help me? All I am finding is the Western culture (world) in movies is that it is a breeding ground for feminist, women leb, homosexuality, lesbianism and modern West. In fact...the very modern Western world that I see everyone here is bashing is the children of classical and original Western culture that you guys are fighting to protect. Bring back that world only to breed the modern Western world all over again. The very core of Western world is invalid...so you are protecting and wanting to bring back invalid.

So excuse me if I go ahead and do this......

:heated::heated::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::fac epalm::facepalm:
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سيف الله
12-13-2018, 09:53 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
I asked about modern Western culture, not traditional Western culture. I love traditional Western culture but I hate modern Western culture. Western culture started to decay around 1920 and became more bad than good around 2005. By now it is pure evil and is incapable of producing anything good.
Peter Hitchens makes a similar point.

Blurb

Writer Peter Hitchens makes claims in his new book 'The Abolition of Britain' as long-lasting marriage and solid education come rare these days. He debates whether or not Britain has lost its greatness with historian Dan Snow.



From an American perspective

Blurb

Thomas Sowell has studied and taught economics, intellectual history, and social policy at institutions that include Cornell University, UCLA, and Amherst College. Now a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Sowell has published more than a dozen books, the latest of which is Dismantling America.

In introducing his new book, Sowell asserts that the Obama administration "is the embodiment, the personification, and the culmination of dangerous trends that began decades ago," trends that are "dismantling America." Sowell sees this in the dismantling of marriage, of culture, and of self-government.




Though some would argue that the rot set in far earlier. The Reformation being the starting point of modernity.
Reply

Eric H
12-14-2018, 10:35 AM
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Should we be complaining about the things we cannot change? Or should we strive to change the things we can?

How can I make a difference?

Blessings
Eric
Reply

fschmidt
12-14-2018, 03:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Should we be complaining about the things we cannot change? Or should we strive to change the things we can?

How can I make a difference?
We should strive for change by supporting a good religion. Islam and traditional Anabaptism are good religions. Judaism and modern Christianity are bad religions.
Reply

muslim brother
12-14-2018, 04:18 PM
all cultures have aspects we may like or dislike.

believing in islam should not make one a hater of anything but islam.

this is the well worn path by many who end up on the news .

talking specifically of cultures,i dislike much of asian culture and appreciate much of "western culture"

hate is a word not be used too often and readily.
Reply

Eric H
12-14-2018, 05:22 PM
Greetings and peace be with you fschmidt;

We should strive for change by supporting a good religion. Islam and traditional Anabaptism are good religions.
Joining a good religion is a start, but we should do more in society than attend religious services.

Judaism and modern Christianity are bad religions.
Ok, I am a member of a bad religion in your opinion, but I actively do things to help the homeless, I help people with addiction problems. We are part of a group that opened up a basics food bank in our area, we have opened up two homeless shelters and much more in recent years.

We need to do more than make judgements about other groups of people, we have to do something to make a difference.

Blessings
Eric
Reply

fschmidt
12-14-2018, 06:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
We need to do more than make judgements about other groups of people, we have to do something to make a difference.
Western society is like Sodom and Gomorrah or like other such cultures mentioned in the Quran. This society is evil and God will wipe it out. Decent people have no business involving themselves in this society in any way, including helping them.

I want to make a difference by finding a way strengthen Islam. I believe that Islam is a good religion, but that the way Muslims organize themselves is bad. Conservative Mennonites have a found an excellent way to organize themselves and I am working to promote this in Islam. Last Sunday I drove to a new Mennonite church that is 2 hours away by car to see if it works an example. But I don't think it does, so the closest good church is about 5 hours away. Now I will push members of my mosque to join me in visiting that church so that they can understand what is possible with the right organization.
Reply

Futuwwa
12-15-2018, 04:34 PM
Every culture is an incoherent grab bag of countless influences of varying strength, often contradicting and competing against each other. Thus, I can't bring myself to hate Western culture, or any other culture. Somehow I think that if you do, you are taking particular features of it and blowing them out of proportion, as if they were the sum total of or defining features of it.
Reply

DanEdge
12-16-2018, 04:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
...I want to make a difference by finding a way strengthen Islam...
While we clearly differ in our perceptions on this issue, I think it admirable that you are considering these things thoughtfully and with passion. As long as you pursue these endeavors with a kind heart and an open mind, I'm sure that you will make a difference.

Sincerely,

Dan
Reply

سيف الله
12-19-2018, 08:05 AM
Salaam

Fschmidt this (right) perspective might interest you.

Return of Pagan Europe

Blurb

As Europe turns away from Christianity, it's returning to pagan morality that's antithetical to individual liberty. The cultural consequences of this downward spiral are addressed in this video.




Theres good aspects to modernity but I agree with you Fschmidt there are many MANY bad aspects and I can perfectly understand your distaste and dislike.

For instance one consequence.



Didn't realise Daniel was so opposed to modernity..

Reply

CarefulThinker
12-19-2018, 08:22 PM
One thing I have been noticing more in Western Society today is that a woman can just name any man as the father of the child, just to get the child support and before you know it that man has to pay money for a child that is not his (I have notice this more in the USA, not sure about other countries). And if the man who is proven to not be the father, does not pay up, can risk going to jail. Nothing happens to the woman who made the false declaration, but the man is then put into a position to either face jail or pay child support for a child not even his.

Traditional family structure is being eradicated, and so are the moral foundations, and thing is, it is spreading. Not long ago I read up on this "Theybies" concept, where parents allow their children to choose their own gender? Is this for real?

Other day I read a article on how a teenage mum got 40 years in prison, for leaving her kids in a car on hot very hot day (in which the kids died from what I understand), just so this mum can go out partying. What is going on here?

What is going on in the world today? It just feels as if all forms of reasoning and logic is being eradicated right before our eyes.

Makes me wonder if the fall of the Roman Empire was due to having a society comparable to that of modern day western civilization.
Reply

fschmidt
12-19-2018, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CarefulThinker
Makes me wonder if the fall of the Roman Empire was due to having a society comparable to that of modern day western civilization.
Of course.
format_quote Originally Posted by Juvenal
If you are honestly uxorious, and devoted to one woman, then bow your head and submit your neck to the yoke. Never will you find a woman who spares the man who loves her; for though she be herself aflame, she delights to torment and plunder him. So the better the man, the more desirable he be as a husband, the less good will he get out of his wife. No present will you ever make if your wife forbids; nothing will you ever sell if she objects; nothing will you buy without her consent. ... Thus does she lord it over her husband. But before long she vacates her kingdom; she flits from one home to another, wearing out her bridal veil; then back she flies again and returns to her own imprints in the bed that she has abandoned, leaving behind her the newly decorated door, the festal hangings on the walls, and the garlands still green over the threshold.
And from the Byzantine east.
format_quote Originally Posted by Procopius
The ladies of the court at this time were nearly all of abandoned morals. They ran no risk in being faithless to their husbands, as the sin brought no penalty: even if caught in the act, they were unpunished, for all they had to do was to go to the Empress, claim the charge was not proven, and start a countersuit against their husbands. The latter, defeated without a trial, had to pay a fine of twice the dower, and were usually whipped and sent to prison; and the next time they saw their adulterous wives again, the ladies would be daintily entertaining their lovers more openly than ever. Indeed, many of the latter gained promotion and pay for their amorous services. After one such experience, most men who suffered these outrages from their wives preferred thereafter to be complaisant instead of being whipped, and gave them every liberty rather than seem to be spying on their affairs.
Reply

Abz2000
12-20-2018, 06:20 AM
Humble me thinks that technology should be kept as a separate category in this instance since this is common global human economic and material development which relies on input from people of all walks of life -everywhere, and ceases to be much of a factor when one considers the land mass and populations which were occupied, looted, and taxed via sea pirates and land mercenaries who went on to form franchise type companies under aristocrats who simply paid taxes to the backer government and auctioned off their "acquired" goods to the government and public alike.
A financial head-start with investment volume capability which is then used as a global tribute generation source via usury ensures high financial dividends for a while - but usually at the cost of global good will, family harmony, the ability to judge the difference between justice and injustice since a blind eye is required to attempt to rationalize such unjustifiable suffering and bloodshed for financial increase.

One of the things i like about western culture though is the ability of people to take criticism and sit quietly through a sensitive argument until their turn - this helps them in learning with an open mind and being more receptive to the truth since all arguments -whether profound or weird - must be evaluated based on merits - the downside is that you get all sorts of weirdos with all sorts of crazy ideas, flourscent hair colours, body piercings, spiky white hoods, opinions, and methods, and that the most powerful people usually push their ideas to the top and then start drawing weird pentagrams and inverted hexagrams and doing voodoo and astrology and star gazing and calling on spirits for stolen information and stamping their one eyed seals on official documents ..... but that too is an indication of how a highly malleable risk-taking society can change for better or worse.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=R0544cX5tmM
Reply

fschmidt
12-20-2018, 12:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
One of the things i like about western culture though is the ability of people to take criticism and sit quietly through a sensitive argument until their turn - this helps them in learning with an open mind and being more receptive to the truth since all arguments -whether profound or weird - must be evaluated based on merits
Where do you live? Americans will sit quietly and smile while you say anything, and then will gossip and stab you in the back. They don't listen and they aren't tolerant, but they do have fake politeness. As much as I complain about the lack of free speech on this forum, at least I am not banned here. I am banned on every single forum of modern culture where I ever posted, easily over 100 forums. One of the reasons that I go to mosque is because that is the only public place that I know of where I can speak freely and people will actually listen to what I say.
Reply

Abz2000
12-20-2018, 05:23 PM
More than half my life at the setting of sun and almost half at its rising.
Reply

DanEdge
12-22-2018, 04:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CarefulThinker
One thing I have been noticing more in Western Society today is that a woman can just name any man as the father of the child, just to get the child support and before you know it that man has to pay money for a child that is not his...
Point of clarification: custody laws vary by state, but no state in the US has laws anything like the above. At least, not for 25 years or so. Since the advent of DNA testing, every man has the option of requesting a DNA confirmation that he is the father of any out-of-wedlock child that a woman claims is his. If the woman refuses to allow the DNA test, the man has no legal responsibility to care for the mother or child. A man also has the option to forgoe the DNA test and accept responsibility. If he chooses neither option, eg, doesn't know about the child until after birth, and then the woman requests financial support, he is offered these options again.

However, USA custody laws still heavily favor the mother. Our common law custom (for the past 125 years or so) is that the mother is the primary care-giver for the child, and therefore ought to have default legal custody rights. The father tends to be the primary money-earner, so he is usually responsible for providing financially for the child. If a mother and father serparate, in theory they both have equal opportunity to argue in court for legal custody of any children -- but in reality, custody is much more likely to go to the mother unless there is a good reason for this not to take place (mental health issues, for example).

--Dan Edge

- - - Updated - - -

format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
Where do you live? Americans will sit quietly and smile while you say anything, and then will gossip and stab you in the back. They don't listen and they aren't tolerant, but they do have fake politeness...
Where do you live? The US contains over 300 million people, spanning about 3.8 million miles, containing thouands of cultures with deep roots. Aristocratic Southerners may often behave as you describe, but a Jeresy Bridge and Tunnel guy won't let you get a word out and still judge you harshly, Atlanta Blacks will argue loudly while cursing and laugh heartily without any judgement, Prarie-bred Iowans will always speak politely and consider your words carefully, 2nd generation Mexicans will listen to anything you say without judgement and never tell anyone outside his family, etc. And of course, individuals within these groups vary widely. And that's just the US, not to mention the rest of the Western world. How can one judge a billion people collectively? Same goes for Muslems. There are over a billion all of them all over the world, each with his own unique perspective. This is something I have to remind myself all the time, arrogant and judgmental as I can be.

--Dan Edge
Reply

سيف الله
12-25-2018, 11:30 AM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by CarefulThinker

Traditional family structure is being eradicated, and so are the moral foundations, and thing is, it is spreading. Not long ago I read up on this "Theybies" concept, where parents allow their children to choose their own gender? Is this for real?
The breakdown of the family system is a major sign of civilizational decline. One element in creating stong cultures, societies, civilizations is to have robust family structures.

When you dont.

So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
Of course.

And from the Byzantine east.
Originally Posted by Procopius

The ladies of the court at this time were nearly all of abandoned morals. They ran no risk in being faithless to their husbands, as the sin brought no penalty: even if caught in the act, they were unpunished, for all they had to do was to go to the Empress, claim the charge was not proven, and start a countersuit against their husbands. The latter, defeated without a trial, had to pay a fine of twice the dower, and were usually whipped and sent to prison; and the next time they saw their adulterous wives again, the ladies would be daintily entertaining their lovers more openly than ever. Indeed, many of the latter gained promotion and pay for their amorous services. After one such experience, most men who suffered these outrages from their wives preferred thereafter to be complaisant instead of being whipped, and gave them every liberty rather than seem to be spying on their affairs.
Hah I see feminism is is not a new phenomena.

This is relevant to the debate, like to share.

Blurb

What is Western civilisation? What is the point of a great civilisation? Jonathan Bowden talks about the spirit of Western Europe, manifest in its religion, art and cultural figures.

Reply

fschmidt
12-25-2018, 10:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Hah I see feminism is is not a new phenomena.
Feminism is not new at all. It was present in most decaying cultures in history. It is described in the Old Testament by Isaiah. Aristophanes ridiculed feminism in Ancient Athens. It was present in the Abbasid Caliphate. This is briefly described here:

http://www.mikraite.org/file/n16/fate.pdf

But the strongest evidence comes from the book "Sex and Culture".

https://archive.org/details/b20442580

https://www.amazon.com/SEX-CULTURE-J...dp/B000K7AQFC/
Reply

سيف الله
12-31-2018, 01:25 AM
Salaam

Ah that book been meaning to get a hold of that for some time, thanks for the links, I'll be checking it out in due time. Its a phenomena that needs careful study. Correct me if Im wrong it usually starts of with reasonable and legimitate demands (no big secret that men throughout the ages have abused their position of power) but as it progresses its demands become more and more 'radical'. Perhaps they are trying create a matriarchy? Also of interest how corporate capitalism and state power created/coopted this movement for their own benefit. (didnt the Roman empire co-opt women to keep men 'under control' at one point?)

Some feminists really do live in fantasy land.



The harm it can do to ordinary men is something doesn’t bear thinking about.

e.g. Johnathan Bowden is one guy who predicted the rise of the emasculated men, soyboys.



Having said all that women do speak out against this movement (Erin Pizzey has been a relentless opponent) and plenty of male authors are giving very sharp critiques.

More on the problems of modernity. Similar to what GK Chesterton was saying earlier.

Reply

fschmidt
12-31-2018, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Correct me if Im wrong it usually starts of with reasonable and legimitate demands (no big secret that men throughout the ages have abused their position of power) but as it progresses its demands become more and more 'radical'. Perhaps they are trying create a matriarchy?
We are unlikely to agree on the cause because I base my thinking on evolution. Basically once punishment for adultery is removed then it becomes in women's evolutionary self-interest to become s-l-u-t-s and feminism is basically a s-l-u-t movement. But what I think we would agree on is that Islam solves the problem in a fair and balanced way. Islam protects women's rights while encouraging modesty and appropriately punishing adultery with a hundred lashes. This should prevent feminism.
Reply

xboxisdead
12-31-2018, 07:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam

Ah that book been meaning to get a hold of that for some time, thanks for the links, I'll be checking it out in due time. Its a phenomena that needs careful study. Correct me if Im wrong it usually starts of with reasonable and legimitate demands (no big secret that men throughout the ages have abused their position of power) but as it progresses its demands become more and more 'radical'. Perhaps they are trying create a matriarchy? Also of interest how corporate capitalism and state power created/coopted this movement for their own benefit. (didnt the Roman empire co-opt women to keep men 'under control' at one point?)

Some feminists really do live in fantasy land.



The harm it can do to ordinary men is something doesn’t bear thinking about.

e.g. Johnathan Bowden is one guy who predicted the rise of the emasculated men, soyboys.



Having said all that women do speak out against this movement (Erin Pizzey has been a relentless opponent) and plenty of male authors are giving very sharp critiques.

More on the problems of modernity. Similar to what GK Chesterton was saying earlier.

The problem with that illusionist who believes in gender equality is that it is literally impossible for boys and girls to be equal.

A) Biological factor of the sexes renders that impossible.
B) There can never be equality in the same gender itself so how can there be equality in two different worlds
C) Equality is impossible to be had and that is communist and communism never works

Look at their laws and it is completely against feminism concept of equality and when gender favoritism of the female sex is had the feminism is highly quiet. False allegation of rape and family break up and female having 100% custodial right of children even if she is lesbian or abusive does not seem to cause feminism to go in rally for gender equality so that males have 50% of custodial rights in the world as mothers do. Feminism does not seem to go to media and say how bad mothers are for killing their children to avoid the father having custody to them when the judge says the father have custodial rights.

Feminism is not posting pictures of baby boys or boys saying underneath the sad face of a boy "They are humans too! Boys rock! Boys contribute to society etc" when the majority of failures in school are boys.

I will take feminism with my hand...throw it to the floor and with my boot step on it and hear it crunch away as I keep stepping hard on it. I will take the half of feminism and place it in the shredder machine as the machine grinds away and shred it to thousand pieces. The last piece of feminism I will drop oil on it and light it to flames as the flame crackles away and eats through the final piece of feminism.

I will only obey Allah and his prophets and Allah said the male and the female are not like each other and he wants to glorify him FOR THE DIFFERENCE AND BEAUTY of the sexes and that males ARE FLOWERS to admire and females are FLOWERS to admire and to maximize the ability of the sexes and push for masculinity and push for femininity and then have those two genders hold hand and hand and work together as a strong community. The man is the cloth for the woman and the woman is the cloth for the man. Both work to protect the defective of each gender and let the non-defective side shine to form a complete one whole person. A man acting feminine should be discourage and admonished at all cost even if it means saying to boys, "Oooh! You are acting like a little girl" and make fun of him (not to insult girls) for one purpose alone..to shame him from that act so he act masculine but at the same time telling him..he is not superior to the female..BUT he is different than her and she have abilities she can do better than you and you both need to work together as one. Same goes for girls...don't say "AH! You can do the same job like a man and better" and tell her..ooh how strong you are..you are doing the same job as a man and better than and acting masculine for a girl is a positive attribute....same should be done for her to discourage to act masculine "Ooh you are acting like a boy" Feminism says this is wrong..I say to feminism you ca...erm...anyways....GENDER DIFFERENCE IS BEAUTIFUL and natural...


this....this in Western world is unnatural.....China by the way...knows this....in China they separate boys from girls to prevent boys been feminized and build into them honor, bravery and masculine attribute. Allah (SWT) did not create the Y chromosome and created testosterone and altered the female baby to have boy brain and altered the female baby to become a boy baby through flooding of testosterone hormone ..just so when that she became a he to end up acting she again.....:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:
Reply

سيف الله
01-01-2019, 12:42 AM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you fschmidt;



Joining a good religion is a start, but we should do more in society than attend religious services.



Ok, I am a member of a bad religion in your opinion, but I actively do things to help the homeless, I help people with addiction problems. We are part of a group that opened up a basics food bank in our area, we have opened up two homeless shelters and much more in recent years.

We need to do more than make judgements about other groups of people, we have to do something to make a difference.

Blessings
Eric
This is laudable, but is being a 'good' person and 'good' works is enough? Seems like many Christians have embraced a type liberal indifferentism when it comes to their faith, one of the main reasons why Christianity has gone into such decline (UK).

The liberal/leftist wing from within/outwith your Church who encourage this 'indifferentism' dont practice it when it comes to proselytising their worldviews, odd that. . . . .but then perhaps that was part of the 'plan'.

Mill's thought as a coherent whole with a specific proselytising purpose, geared to the emasculation of Christianity and its replacement by a libertarian public doctrine.


Yeah I know its Milo but this is relevant.

Blurb

MILO YIANNOPOULOS HAS EXPERIENCED THE MORAL DECAY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FIRST-HAND. NOW HE WANTS TO FIX IT—STARTING WITH POPE FRANCIS.Who is the real Pope Francis? And can the Church survive him? Milo Yiannopoulos traces the origins of the Church’s descent into sin and shame, pointing the finger at left-wing reformers, trendy progressive bishops, gay clergy, and ultimately, Francis himself.

In DIABOLICAL, Milo Yiannopoulos levels his critical eye and legendarily caustic wit at the Catholic Church, an institution he reveres but which, under the leadership of a “Lavender Mafia” of left-wing gay bishops, has become shambolic and depraved. Yes, there really is a gay mafia. And yes, their outfits are fabulous.The Catholic Church hasn’t had a crisis like this since the Reformation. It won’t survive unless it learns how to talk to men again, sets aside transitory political nostrums like environmentalism and identity politics, and gets back to worshiping Almighty God.


Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-01-2019, 02:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
This is a generic message that I plan to post to all forums where I am subscribed. My dominant passion in life is my hatred of modern Western culture which I consider to be pure evil. There is no point for me to participate in any forum where no one shares my view of modern Western culture. Therefore I am asking - Does anyone here hate modern Western culture? If not, I will leave this forum.
It is not nice to hate someone's culture. Do you like whe somone hates your culture? Of course not, so please, try to learn to accept others's cultures and take them as something you can learn for self development. Without culture, how do you expect us to develope? We humans need to learn little bit from everywhere as much as we can so that we can feed our brains. What are the things that makes you hate western cultures?
Reply

سيف الله
01-03-2019, 10:49 PM
Salaam

Another update.



Reply

DanEdge
01-03-2019, 11:00 PM
Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.
Reply

سيف الله
01-03-2019, 11:56 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.
Yeah thats the point, shes obviously been 'liberated' from her 'servitude', this tired old trope.. . . . .

Muslim women of twitter have been very critical, they consider it very patronising.











Not to forget.





To sum up.



Reply

سيف الله
01-05-2019, 01:10 AM
Salaam

Relevant like to share. One explanation for the genesis of modernity.



Moderns starting to realize how inhumanly difficult their morality is

Modern morality is often thought of as a deliverance from the harshness of past moral codes. But that’s only because we don’t take it seriously. If we do, then it is absolutely inhuman in its demands, a sprit-crushing, insatiable monstrosity, whether modern morals are taken in their Kantian-personalist or, especially, in their utilitarian form. Can you imagine being required to maximize the total happiness of mankind, never treat anyone as a mere means, or value everyone on Earth’s happiness equally with your own every moment of every day? Every human good would be strangled, and no one could ever be happy again. One begins to appreciate that the legalism and casuistry of pre-modern morality functioned not to burden mankind but to us from the hell of unbounded altruism.

This has not gone unnoticed by the moderns. See this review of Susan Wolf’s “Moral saints”, namely an argument against trying to become one. Wolf appeals to all the “non-moral” goods that can only be preserved if we limit our commitment to modern morality. Interestingly, the reviewer, Daniel Callcut, points out that one way to escape from the dilemma would be to return to pre-modern virtue ethics, in which an altruism restricted to neighbors is held in balance with other goods as parts of a comprehensive good life, and he notes that Wolf rejects this option. Wolf is left to construct a solution which limits universalist altruism while granting it the monopoly on morality it has had in modern thought.

She must claim that we should be somewhat altruistic but that we should not aspire to “moral sainthood”, i.e. allow the admitted demands of morality to entirely structure our lives and crowd out other goods. Indeed, I agree that one should not allow utilitarian ethics to ruin one’s life, but I see no way to coherently assert this while admitting utilitarian ethics. One is applying to a “should” which is more authoritative than the “should” of morality, but such a thing cannot exist. The ruling “should” is one’s true morality, and it’s better to make it explicit.

https://bonald.wordpress.com/2018/12...r-morality-is/
Reply

ardianto
01-06-2019, 03:32 AM
Greeting and peace be with you Eric H and fschmidt.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
but I actively do things to help the homeless, I help people with addiction problems. We are part of a group that opened up a basics food bank in our area, we have opened up two homeless shelters and much more in recent years.
Alhamdulillah, glad to hear what you and your group do for needy people. Hopefuly it will inspire Muslims to do kindness like this too.


format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
This society is evil and God will wipe it out. Decent people have no business involving themselves in this society in any way, including helping them.
What would you do if you saw a blind man walking towards a cliff? Would you let him fall without you doing anything? Or you would move to lead him to the right path?

I have seen and met many people who behave sinfully. but I never thought God misled them. God never misleads anyone. But it is we who often mislead ourselves.

People who are misguided are like a blind person walking towards a cliff. They walked on the wrong path because their hearts were blind. And it is our duty to open their hearts and guide them to the right path.
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Eric H
01-06-2019, 01:58 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Dan,

format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.
On the surface, this picture seems harmless enough, but its message is clearly to push the boundaries. What would the next picture show, the boundaries would have to be pushed a little further to have an impact. Would the woman be wearing a short skirt and a low cut top? How could you do a follow up from this, what boundaries could you push further?

When it becomes acceptable to break the seemingly little laws, the more important bigger laws will soon become under threat.

In the spirit of searching for the laws of God,
Eric
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ardianto
01-06-2019, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
On the surface, this picture seems harmless enough, but its message is clearly to push the boundaries. What would the next picture show, the boundaries would have to be pushed a little further to have an impact. Would the woman be wearing a short skirt and a low cut top? How could you do a follow up from this, what boundaries could you push further?
That picture was taken from "Changing your perspective" advertisement by Reporter magazine. And this just one from three picture in that ad campaign. You can see two other pictures in this link : https://www.collater.al/en/changing-...ter-magazines/
Reply

Eric H
01-06-2019, 05:58 PM
Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;

That picture was taken from "Changing your perspective" advertisement by Reporter magazine. And this just one from three picture in that ad campaign. You can see two other pictures in this link : https://www.collater.al/en/changing-...ter-magazines/
Thanks for the link, I preferred the other two pictures of the lone person walking away from a riot and war.

Blessings
Eric
Reply

xboxisdead
01-06-2019, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;



Thanks for the link, I preferred the other two pictures of the lone person walking away from a riot and war.

Blessings
Eric
You preferred the lone person walking away from riot and war and killing vs a woman walking away from wearing modesty and protecting her private parts and obeying Allah (SWT) so she can attain high level of paradise?


BEAUTIFUL! :D :D
Reply

سيف الله
01-06-2019, 09:58 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by fschmidt
We are unlikely to agree on the cause because I base my thinking on evolution. Basically once punishment for adultery is removed then it becomes in women's evolutionary self-interest to become s-l-u-t-s and feminism is basically a s-l-u-t movement. But what I think we would agree on is that Islam solves the problem in a fair and balanced way. Islam protects women's rights while encouraging modesty and appropriately punishing adultery with a hundred lashes. This should prevent feminism.
Im not big on evo psych explanations, it gives insight but too reductive. Also we have to be careful in the language we use. Without constraints, morals, codes, standards of behaviour either sex will abuse the advantages they can get. With men its transparent but we are now becoming more aware of how women can abuse the system for their benefit (feminised family courts, (US) aliomony laws etc). We must not forget capitalist classes and the state had their own interests in pushing the feminist ideoolgy (Captialists, women in workforce, families arent conducive to profit making, the state wanted to get rid of the family because its an impredement to their control of society). Plus we shouldnt forget the impace of ideas (leftism etc).

Having said all that we have to acknowledge that societies have changed and we have to make reasonable adjustments.

I agree with the last part Marriage needs to have legal force (eg. adultery needs to be sanctioned.)

I think its important that men and women both work together to create better families and societies, where husaband and wife can have good relations, children can be raised in a safe enviorment, elderly can be looked after and your kin can be supported etc. Difficult I know but can be done.
Reply

DanEdge
01-14-2019, 02:28 PM
Greetings,

While I don't always agree with you guys on any given point, I love to see the back and forth discussion on this forum. As a religious group, I've found that Muslims are particularly logical in their thinking and applications of principles. This may be why I've gotten my tail whipped at chess by so many Muslims. I'm telling you: don't ever go up against a Turkish or Iranian chess player thinking you are going to win. They're like the Russian and Indian chess players, constantly looking 5 moves ahead while I'm only seeing 2 to 4.

:D

--Dan Edge
Reply

ardianto
01-14-2019, 03:00 PM
According to people in the East, the difference between "Modern" and "Western" is only on who say this word. If the youths dress like rock star, playing music loudly, they call it as "modern". While parents who see it are shaking their heads and say "oh no!, those youths are really Westernized!"

:p
Reply

سيف الله
01-14-2019, 10:58 PM
Salaam

Another update. the Moderns are prosletysing again, and what do they attack? the bedrock of an Islamic society, the family. How surprising ^o).



The Delusion of Individualism Spreading to the Muslim World

If you thought the Muslim world was safe from the extreme individualism and hedonism of the West, think again. Westernized Muslims are pushing these destructive values in Muslim newspapers around the world. One recent example comes from Morocco World News, where Houda rants about the “cultural” emphasis on marriage and child rearing:

I have decided to write this after having gone through quite a bit of criticism over the past few months (or is it years, I don’t remember). My ideas and beliefs are apparently so outlandish that people around me feel obliged to criticize me and “wake me up” from my “delusions.” Am I an alien who needs to be taken back to its planet, or am I simply, harmlessly different?

My “unforgivable,” bizarre ideas often revolve around me trying to convince people that marriage and/or having children is not made for everybody. Marriage and procreating are first and foremost choices; choices that no single person has a say in, except he/she who wants to or does not want to get married and procreate.

We know from Allah and his Messenger ﷺ that one of Iblis’ tactics, when it comes to leading astray the human being, is to whisper things to him until he can’t differentiate between his own thoughts and the whisperings of the Devil. Here, the author is under the delusion that she is arguing for something special and unheard of when, in fact, she is just regurgitating the talking points of the noxious modernist dogmas. This delusion of choice as superseding all else is the rotten fruit of the pernicious indoctrination that we’ve all been victims of through multiple means, from secular state education to various forms of entertainment. Such ideas are shoved down our throats by the most politically dominant entity of our era, Western imperialism, and have been used as a justification to invade and colonize the Muslim world for more than two centuries. Once ideals of individual choice settle into the heart, one will inevitably start to feel disdain towards Islamic values, which do not have such a self-centered emphasis.

Society and its constituents have placed norms and constraints on our lives to the point where most of us follow the crowd, abide by many unwritten rules and bury our real desires somewhere deep down, just to fit in. Well, as much as it is a choice not to question who put those boundaries on our lifestyles and where they come from, isn’t it also a choice not to conform? Not to want what everybody else wants?

The institution of marriage is clearly a major part of Islam. Making a case against it and, thus, contributing to its decline isn’t just challenging a culture. Rather, it is tantamount to arguing against the way of life that God revealed for our own salvation and fulfillment.

Let’s clarify something. When we label a practice as “cultural,” we are merely saying that this practice can be found among this given group of people. In other words, any social practice can be labelled as “cultural.” The potential problem with such categorization is that it can detach practices from their origins, deeper meanings, and significations. We must keep in mind that ultimately “cultural practices” have their roots in the way(s) of life (Dīn) of the individuals that compose such a society. We must avoid two extremes: 1) To blindly assume that every single facet of a Muslim culture is from Islam, and 2) To blindly assume that not a single facet of a Muslim culture is from Islam. The truth is, some “cultural” practices are grounded in Islam and others are not. As Muslims, we must make sure that what is being labelled as a “cultural” practice isn’t a part of Islam before critiquing or discarding it, otherwise we are attacking Islam unknowingly.

Yet, here we have a Muslim writer attacking marriage as a “cultural” byproduct. Is this mere confusion and ignorance? Or is it a manifestation of the colonial project to undermine Islamic values and supplant them with the liberal emphasis on individual choice at all costs?

Going back to the topic of getting married, I strongly believe that for self-made, well-established, independent human beings, marriage is not a priority anymore. A lot of people want to focus more on their personal and professional development rather than spend their time and energy on a relationship that may or may not work out in the end.


The author fancies herself unique because she is by breaking off from the herd of people wanting to get married. Ironically, the global trend is people not wanting to get married, so she isn’t unique or special at all. Nonetheless, she argues that an individualistic lifestyle is incompatible with marriage… Well, of course an individualistic lifestyle isn’t going to sit well with marriage or any kind of meaningful relationship for that matter! Prioritizing yourself over others is not a recipe for successfully connecting with other human beings. The real question is: Is an individualistic lifestyle fulfilling? Will it lead to happiness and contentment?

The answer is a resounding “No!” Human beings aren’t individualistic by psychological and sociological necessity. Our need for love and belongingness as well as many of our physiological needs require deep and meaningful relationships in order to be fulfilled. Sexual needs for example. Unless you want to live a life of sexual frustration or meaningless, debased fornication, you have no choice but to get married. The love and mercy that Allah places in the hearts of legitimately married couples are the antithesis of this individualistic pursuit of personal hedonistic satisfaction.

Ultimately, this is exactly what individualism calls towards: The perpetual repression and misdirection of our authentic human desires, e.g., for marriage, for childbearing, for loving families, etc., and the implantation of artificial desires, e.g., for career, endless personal choice, individual satisfaction, etc. Islam, in stark contrast, recognizes authentic human needs and is, thus, perfectly in line with human nature for the simple reason that Islam was sent by the One who created human nature in the first place. Allah sent guidance for our own betterment and fulfillment, fulfillment that can never be attained in the cold, desolate dystopia of modernist individualism.

“And Allah wants to lighten for you [your difficulties]; and mankind was created weak.”
Quran: 4:28

https://muslimskeptic.com/2019/01/14...-muslim-world/
Reply

xboxisdead
01-14-2019, 11:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam

Another update. the moderns are prosletysing again, and what do they attack? the bedrock of an Islamic society the family. How surprising ^o).



The Delusion of Individualism Spreading to the Muslim World

If you thought the Muslim world was safe from the extreme individualism and hedonism of the West, think again. Westernized Muslims are pushing these destructive values in Muslim newspapers around the world. One recent example comes from Morocco World News, where Houda rants about the “cultural” emphasis on marriage and child rearing:

I have decided to write this after having gone through quite a bit of criticism over the past few months (or is it years, I don’t remember). My ideas and beliefs are apparently so outlandish that people around me feel obliged to criticize me and “wake me up” from my “delusions.” Am I an alien who needs to be taken back to its planet, or am I simply, harmlessly different?

My “unforgivable,” bizarre ideas often revolve around me trying to convince people that marriage and/or having children is not made for everybody. Marriage and procreating are first and foremost choices; choices that no single person has a say in, except he/she who wants to or does not want to get married and procreate.

We know from Allah and his Messenger ﷺ that one of Iblis’ tactics, when it comes to leading astray the human being, is to whisper things to him until he can’t differentiate between his own thoughts and the whisperings of the Devil. Here, the author is under the delusion that she is arguing for something special and unheard of when, in fact, she is just regurgitating the talking points of the noxious modernist dogmas. This delusion of choice as superseding all else is the rotten fruit of the pernicious indoctrination that we’ve all been victims of through multiple means, from secular state education to various forms of entertainment. Such ideas are shoved down our throats by the most politically dominant entity of our era, Western imperialism, and have been used as a justification to invade and colonize the Muslim world for more than two centuries. Once ideals of individual choice settle into the heart, one will inevitably start to feel disdain towards Islamic values, which do not have such a self-centered emphasis.

Society and its constituents have placed norms and constraints on our lives to the point where most of us follow the crowd, abide by many unwritten rules and bury our real desires somewhere deep down, just to fit in. Well, as much as it is a choice not to question who put those boundaries on our lifestyles and where they come from, isn’t it also a choice not to conform? Not to want what everybody else wants?

The institution of marriage is clearly a major part of Islam. Making a case against it and, thus, contributing to its decline isn’t just challenging a culture. Rather, it is tantamount to arguing against the way of life that God revealed for our own salvation and fulfillment.

Let’s clarify something. When we label a practice as “cultural,” we are merely saying that this practice can be found among this given group of people. In other words, any social practice can be labelled as “cultural.” The potential problem with such categorization is that it can detach practices from their origins, deeper meanings, and significations. We must keep in mind that ultimately “cultural practices” have their roots in the way(s) of life (Dīn) of the individuals that compose such a society. We must avoid two extremes: 1) To blindly assume that every single facet of a Muslim culture is from Islam, and 2) To blindly assume that not a single facet of a Muslim culture is from Islam. The truth is, some “cultural” practices are grounded in Islam and others are not. As Muslims, we must make sure that what is being labelled as a “cultural” practice isn’t a part of Islam before critiquing or discarding it, otherwise we are attacking Islam unknowingly.

Yet, here we have a Muslim writer attacking marriage as a “cultural” byproduct. Is this mere confusion and ignorance? Or is it a manifestation of the colonial project to undermine Islamic values and supplant them with the liberal emphasis on individual choice at all costs?

Going back to the topic of getting married, I strongly believe that for self-made, well-established, independent human beings, marriage is not a priority anymore. A lot of people want to focus more on their personal and professional development rather than spend their time and energy on a relationship that may or may not work out in the end.


The author fancies herself unique because she is by breaking off from the herd of people wanting to get married. Ironically, the global trend is people not wanting to get married, so she isn’t unique or special at all. Nonetheless, she argues that an individualistic lifestyle is incompatible with marriage… Well, of course an individualistic lifestyle isn’t going to sit well with marriage or any kind of meaningful relationship for that matter! Prioritizing yourself over others is not a recipe for successfully connecting with other human beings. The real question is: Is an individualistic lifestyle fulfilling? Will it lead to happiness and contentment?

The answer is a resounding “No!” Human beings aren’t individualistic by psychological and sociological necessity. Our need for love and belongingness as well as many of our physiological needs require deep and meaningful relationships in order to be fulfilled. Sexual needs for example. Unless you want to live a life of sexual frustration or meaningless, debased fornication, you have no choice but to get married. The love and mercy that Allah places in the hearts of legitimately married couples are the antithesis of this individualistic pursuit of personal hedonistic satisfaction.

Ultimately, this is exactly what individualism calls towards: The perpetual repression and misdirection of our authentic human desires, e.g., for marriage, for childbearing, for loving families, etc., and the implantation of artificial desires, e.g., for career, endless personal choice, individual satisfaction, etc. Islam, in stark contrast, recognizes authentic human needs and is, thus, perfectly in line with human nature for the simple reason that Islam was sent by the One who created human nature in the first place. Allah sent guidance for our own betterment and fulfillment, fulfillment that can never be attained in the cold, desolate dystopia of modernist individualism.

“And Allah wants to lighten for you [your difficulties]; and mankind was created weak.”
Quran: 4:28

https://muslimskeptic.com/2019/01/14...-muslim-world/

Excellent post :D
Reply

سيف الله
01-15-2019, 12:35 AM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Greetings,

While I don't always agree with you guys on any given point, I love to see the back and forth discussion on this forum. As a religious group, I've found that Muslims are particularly logical in their thinking and applications of principles. This may be why I've gotten my tail whipped at chess by so many Muslims. I'm telling you: don't ever go up against a Turkish or Iranian chess player thinking you are going to win. They're like the Russian and Indian chess players, constantly looking 5 moves ahead while I'm only seeing 2 to 4.

:D

--Dan Edge
Hah I wish! Now all I have to do is improve my spelling and grammar. Man Im getting sloppy. :facepalm: :p
Reply

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