PDA

View Full Version : Is Islamic sharia really created by Allah? Or always existed?



Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 01:40 AM
I just found a passage from Quran saying something that, "whoever believes that Quran is created, has committed disbelief". I was thinking that Islamic sharia is created by God and not by humans. So, what I think is still disbelief? Does that mean, these Islamic sharia which we know, always existed and had no beginning nor end?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
azc
01-02-2019, 02:10 AM
The unanimous faith of Ahl-e-Sunnah wal-Jamah is that the holy Quran is eternal and uncreated:

فأهلالسنه كلهم من أهم المذاهب الأربعه و غيرهم من الخلف والسلف متفقون علی أن القرآن غير مخلوق )شرح الفقه الأكبر(

However, calling the holy Quran as eternal and uncreated means that the Word of Allah Almighty is eternal which is an attribute of Allah and is associated with Him. So far as written and recited words of Quran are concerned, these are the created ones and they are not the attribute of Allah :swt:, but they indicate to the Words of Allah :swt:. A common person should avoid venturing such philosophical discussions, for sometimes a man may fall in suspicion and doubt. One must only believe in the fundamental beliefs mentioned in the Holy Quran and Hadith.

Allah (Subhana Wa Ta’ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/darulifta...0%2C6748402012
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by azc
The unanimous faith of Ahl-e-Sunnah wal-Jamah is that the holy Quran is eternal and uncreated:

فأهلالسنه كلهم من أهم المذاهب الأربعه و غيرهم من الخلف والسلف متفقون علی أن القرآن غير مخلوق )شرح الفقه الأكبر(

However, calling the holy Quran as eternal and uncreated means that the Word of Allah Almighty is eternal which is an attribute of Allah and is associated with Him. So far as written and recited words of Quran are concerned, these are the created ones and they are not the attribute of Allah :swt:, but they indicate to the Words of Allah :swt:. A common person should avoid venturing such philosophical discussions, for sometimes a man may fall in suspicion and doubt. One must only believe in the fundamental beliefs mentioned in the Holy Quran and Hadith.

Allah (Subhana Wa Ta’ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/darulifta...0%2C6748402012
So thats mean, God can change any divine laws and legislations as He wants and also To Create any heavenly book He wants also To Name the book?
Is also God able To Hate something or To Love something as He wishes? Just for clarification.
I simply never underdstood why He created shuch laws and legislations. Some are very heavy to me, because they do not let me do the things I wished.
Reply

azc
01-02-2019, 02:38 AM
What is shariah:

Shariah is the set of defined laws and rulings revealed for human beings to spend their lives accordingly. Its sources are as follows:

Quran
Hadith
Consensus ( e.g. of sahaba etc) :ra:
Qiyas

shariah of one prophet could be different to the shariah of other prophet in any age.

E.g.

Prostration of reverence was permitted in the shariah of other prophets a.s but any kind of prostration is prohibited in the shariah of prophet Muhammad :saws:
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
ZeeshanParvez
01-02-2019, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by azc
The unanimous faith of Ahl-e-Sunnah wal-Jamah is that the holy Quran is eternal and uncreated:

فأهلالسنه كلهم من أهم المذاهب الأربعه و غيرهم من الخلف والسلف متفقون علی أن القرآن غير مخلوق )شرح الفقه الأكبر(

However, calling the holy Quran as eternal and uncreated means that the Word of Allah Almighty is eternal which is an attribute of Allah and is associated with Him. So far as written and recited words of Quran are concerned, these are the created ones and they are not the attribute of Allah :swt:, but they indicate to the Words of Allah :swt:.
This is the belief of the Ashaa'irah and the Maturidi.

This is not the belief of ahl al-Sunnah.

This division was an innovation of Abu Hasan al-Asha'ari in an attempt to reconcile between the baatil of the Mu'tazila and the ahl al-Sunnah.

The Mu'tazila held the Qur'aan is created. The ahl al-Sunnah maintained it is not.

When Abu Hasan al-Ashari' left the Mu'tazila that was his first rujuu. And during this rujuu he came up with this bid'ah. The Ashaa'irah themselves acknowledge this bidaah of his. Below is a screen shot of a famous Ash'ari acknowledging this innovated idea.

During his second rujuu, Abu Hasan al-Ashari' retracted from this view of his and joined the ranks of the ahl al-Sunnah.


Abdul-Kareem al-Shahrastani (d. 584H) was from among the later 'Ashaa'irah. He was an important figure among them.

He admits that Abu al-hasan al-Ash'ari broke the Ijmaa and innovated a third saying which was unknown before him.

He says:

فأبدع الأشعري قولاً ثالثاً وقضى بحدوث الحروف وهو خرق الإجماع وحكم بأن ما نقرأه كلام الله مجازاً لا حقيقة وهو عين الابتداع فهلا قال ورد السمع بأن ما نقرأه ونكتبه كلام الله تعالى دون أن يتعرض لكيفيته وحقيقته كما ورد السمع بإثبات كثير من الصفات من الوجه واليدين إلى غير ذلك من الصفات الخبرية

So al-Ash'ari innovated a third saying and passed judgment saying that the letters are huduuth (are not eternal and have a beginning and an end) and this is the destruction of the ijmaa' (consensus)

And he judged that what we read is only METAPHORICALLY (majaazan) the speech of Allaah's speech only metaphorically (majaazan) not in reality (haqiiqatan) and this is pure innovation.

Why did he not say that the revelation mentions that what we read and write is the Speech of Allaah without (him) delving into its kaifiyyah (how it is) and its haqiiqah (its reality) - just like in the revelation many attributes have been mentioned such as Face, Two Hands and other than them from the sifaat Khabariyyah.

Reference(s):


نهاية الإقدام في علم الكلام


Attachment 6579




For those interested and not bigoted to just one thought and are open to realizing the truth please also visit this page to read in detail about the above innovation.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
So thats mean, God can change any divine laws and legislations as He wants and also To Create any heavenly book He wants also To Name the book?
Is also God able To Hate something or To Love something as He wishes? Just for clarification.
I simply never underdstood why He created shuch laws and legislations. Some are very heavy to me, because they do not let me do the things I wished.
It is your wish against the Will of Allaah.

That is the test.

If you pass the test, then you get admitted to a place where you get to do what you wish.

That place is called Heaven.

We are not in heaven at the moment. We are in a temporary life. We have wishes here but we must control them so that we can get into the place where we can have what we wish.

That place is called Heaven.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
This is the belief of the Ashaa'irah and the Maturidi.

This is not the belief of ahl al-Sunnah.

This division was an innovation of Abu Hasan al-Asha'ari in an attempt to reconcile between the baatil of the Mu'tazila and the ahl al-Sunnah.

The Mu'tazila held the Qur'aan is created. The ahl al-Sunnah maintained it is not.

When Abu Hasan al-Ashari' left the Mu'tazila that was his first rujuu. And during this rujuu he came up with this bid'ah. The Ashaa'irah themselves acknowledge this bidaah of his. Below is a screen shot of a famous Ash'ari acknowledging this innovated idea.

During his second rujuu, Abu Hasan al-Ashari' retracted from this view of his and joined the ranks of the ahl al-Sunnah.


Abdul-Kareem al-Shahrastani (d. 584H) was from among the later 'Ashaa'irah. He was an important figure among them.

He admits that Abu al-hasan al-Ash'ari broke the Ijmaa and innovated a third saying which was unknown before him.

He says:

فأبدع الأشعري قولاً ثالثاً وقضى بحدوث الحروف وهو خرق الإجماع وحكم بأن ما نقرأه كلام الله مجازاً لا حقيقة وهو عين الابتداع فهلا قال ورد السمع بأن ما نقرأه ونكتبه كلام الله تعالى دون أن يتعرض لكيفيته وحقيقته كما ورد السمع بإثبات كثير من الصفات من الوجه واليدين إلى غير ذلك من الصفات الخبرية

So al-Ash'ari innovated a third saying and passed judgment saying that the letters are huduuth (are not eternal and have a beginning and an end) and this is the destruction of the ijmaa' (consensus)

And he judged that what we read is only METAPHORICALLY (majaazan) the speech of Allaah's speech only metaphorically (majaazan) not in reality (haqiiqatan) and this is pure innovation.

Why did he not say that the revelation mentions that what we read and write is the Speech of Allaah without (him) delving into its kaifiyyah (how it is) and its haqiiqah (its reality) - just like in the revelation many attributes have been mentioned such as Face, Two Hands and other than them from the sifaat Khabariyyah.

Reference(s):


نهاية الإقدام في علم الكلام


Attachment 6579




For those interested and not bigoted to just one thought and are open to realizing the truth please also visit this page to read in detail about the above innovation.

- - - Updated - - -



It is your wish against the Will of Allaah.

That is the test.

If you pass the test, then you get admitted to a place where you get to do what you wish.

That place is called Heaven.

We are not in heaven at the moment. We are in a temporary life. We have wishes here but we must control them so that we can get into the place where we can have what we wish.

That place is called Heaven.
I understand this, but the fact that I cant draw anything freely, nor to listen to songs as I want? Nor to dance? This makes me feel horrible, and I'm already facing difficulties with it, because some do not understand it and it is hard for me to convice others that is haram to practice them. And I have to practice them, just to not make myself a fool, and my Christian mother keeps telling me that it is the devil who makes me not to draw, listen to songs and dance and God did not prohibited. That is why I wish desperately for reversal of time, so that new sharia can appear so that I wont have to deal with difficulties anymore. I simply, unable to lile and love the sharia.
Because, I want to follow the new sharia but this time easily. Sometimes, I even hate that I was born because of this.
Reply

azc
01-02-2019, 06:53 PM
@ZeeshanParvez :

Read it to remove your misconceptions:

https://asharis.wordpress.com/2014/0...0%2C2759564605

The Quran is the Speech of Allah, not a creation, but its utterance is created. | The Ash'aris
[An excerpt translated by Abdur Rahman Al-Sondalaani from Ahl al-Sunna: The Ash‘arīs - The Testimony of the Scholars and Their Proofs By: Ḥamad al-Sinān & Fawzī al-‘Anjarī]   Since the matter is as we mentioned – as the Scholars have clarified, what is the reason for accusing Abdullah bin Sa’eed bin Kullaab of opposing the…...
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@ZeeshanParvez :

Read it to remove your misconceptions:

https://asharis.wordpress.com/2014/0...0%2C2759564605

The Quran is the Speech of Allah, not a creation, but its utterance is created. | The Ash'aris
[An excerpt translated by Abdur Rahman Al-Sondalaani from Ahl al-Sunna: The Ash‘arīs - The Testimony of the Scholars and Their Proofs By: Ḥamad al-Sinān & Fawzī al-‘Anjarī] - Since the matter is as we mentioned – as the Scholars have clarified, what is the reason for accusing Abdullah bin Sa’eed bin Kullaab of opposing the…...
If Quran is nor created, then thats mean also the chapters, sunnahs and narrations are not created either, right?
Reply

Alamgir
01-02-2019, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I simply never underdstood why He created shuch laws and legislations.
Asalamu Alaikum

It doesn't matter if you understand or not, what matters is that you obey. If you already believe in Islam, then there is no need for you to ponder the "why", but only what you must and must not do.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
Asalamu Alaikum

It doesn't matter if you understand or not, what matters is that you obey. If you already believe in Islam, then there is no need for you to ponder the "why", but only what you must and must not do.
Well unforturnately, I have violated 2 of His Laws. I have listened to music and I have danced. This kind of lawd are really heavy and hard to be obeyed. Because, today another Christian family of ours, invited to their house and after 1 days from New Year, and another Christian lady made a joke by telling: "his religion does not allow him to dance".Do you realise how hurtful are these laws?? And I keep wondering why it happened like this...
Reply

Alamgir
01-02-2019, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
but the fact that I cant draw anything freely
You can draw, so long as if you draw living creatures, they must have key features missing (e.g the face is left blank with no features). You can Google more about this topic to find out the specifics.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
nor to listen to songs as I want?
You can listen to songs so long as they have no instruments and the lyrics do not promote what is haram.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Nor to dance?
You can dance so long as the moves do not promote what is haram and you do not dance in front of non-mahram women.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
This makes me feel horrible
Because you're not finding something else to entertain you. Go and find halal ways of recreation.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
it is hard for me to convice others that is haram to practice them.
Just tell them that Islam says this is haram, and that's enough for something to be haram. There is no why, Islam is pure submission to Allah ar-rahman ar-raheem.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
and my Christian mother keeps telling me that it is the devil who makes me not to draw, listen to songs and dance and God did not prohibited. That is why I wish desperately for reversal of time, so that new sharia can appear so that I wont have to deal with difficulties anymore. I simply, unable to lile and love the sharia.
Stop interacting with your mother beyond what is necessary, she's clearly a poor influence upon you.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Well unforturnately, I have violated 2 of His Laws.
It's never too late to turn in repentance (unless you're about to die).
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
You can draw, so long as if you draw living creatures, they must have key features missing (e.g the face is left blank with no features). You can Google more about this topic to find out the specifics.



You can listen to songs so long as they have no instruments and the lyrics do not promote what is haram.



You can dance so long as the moves do not promote what is haram and you do not dance in front of non-mahram women.



Because you're not finding something else to entertain you. Go and find halal ways of recreation.



Just tell them that Islam says this is haram, and that's enough for something to be haram. There is no why, Islam is pure submission to Allah ar-rahman ar-raheem.



Stop interacting with your mother beyond what is necessary, she's clearly a poor influence upon you.
Well, thats the problem. That music contained musical instruments, and I was forced to dance and listen to it. And if I would tell them that it is haram, they will never invite us again, and I would have to suffer this.
Reply

Alamgir
01-02-2019, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Because, today another Christian family of ours, invited to their house and after 1 days from New Year, and another Christian lady made a joke by telling: "his religion does not allow him to dance".Do you realise how hurtful are these laws?? And I keep wondering why it happened like this...
Clearly, you shouldn't be interacting with non-Muslims beyond what is necessary. It's not doing you any good. There's a reason this is haram.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
And if I would tell them that it is haram, they will never invite us again, and I would have to suffer this.
It's not "suffering", you interacting with them has clearly brought you more torment than if you did otherwise. Stop interacting with non-Muslims beyond what is necessary, full stop.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
You can draw, so long as if you draw living creatures, they must have key features missing (e.g the face is left blank with no features). You can Google more about this topic to find out the specifics.



You can listen to songs so long as they have no instruments and the lyrics do not promote what is haram.



You can dance so long as the moves do not promote what is haram and you do not dance in front of non-mahram women.



Because you're not finding something else to entertain you. Go and find halal ways of recreation.



Just tell them that Islam says this is haram, and that's enough for something to be haram. There is no why, Islam is pure submission to Allah ar-rahman ar-raheem.



Stop interacting with your mother beyond what is necessary, she's clearly a poor influence upon you.

- - - Updated - - -



It's never too late to turn in repentance (unless you're about to die).
I was only telling her that I hate that I was born because of some Islamic sharia, and she asked me in angry way, "what laws?? You drove me really crazy!!!", and I replayed her, "the fact that it is haram to dance and listen to songs", and she told me, "that is because of Satan who makes you be unhappy and tells you to do things which you should not do". And there were nob mahran too alot, and there was a non mahram Christian lady who asked me to dance with her, and I accepted, because I could not refuse, she would ask why, what sould I tell? Because, Islam forbids this?? She would definitely not believe. And she would keep asking me, and if I were to say no repeatedly, she would get mad at me and I dont like to cause someone be angry at me.
I wonder, in Heaven these Islamic sharia will be completely lifted from us and we would have absolute free will?
If for example, I pray for reversal of time, and then I ask God To Grant us new divine laws and legislations with ang intention I have, then this means that I have committed disbelief no matter what intention I had? If yes, why it is like this?
Would this wish of mine will be answered when I'll reach Heaven? Or still wish for reversal of time will be still rejected and never will be accepted and answered?
Reply

Alamgir
01-02-2019, 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I was only telling her that I hate that I was born because of some Islamic sharia
You should repent for making such a haram statement. These thoughts you have are just whispers from Shaytan, you will be fine if you stop socialising with such bad people.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
non mahram Christian lady who asked me to dance with her, and I accepted, because I could not refuse, she would ask why, what sould I tell? Because, Islam forbids this?? She would definitely not believe. And she would keep asking me, and if I were to say no repeatedly, she would get mad at me and I dont like to cause someone be angry at me.
Stop being a baby and grow up. Tell them it's haram, and if they don't believe you, who cares? Tell them to jog on, they can't force you to do anything. And I already told you, it's haram to unnecessarily socialise with non-Muslims (and non-mahram women). Now you've learnt (one of the many reasons) why the hard way.

Remember, they might get angry at you, but by doing the haram, Allah will be even more angry with you. Who has more of a right to be pleased? A talking piece of meat, or your creator?

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
If for example, I pray for reversal of time, and then I ask God To Grant us new divine laws and legislations with ang intention I have, then this means that I have committed disbelief no matter what intention I had? If yes, why it is like this?
That's kufr. Repent from making such a disgusting dua, and instead pray to Allah to make you stronger. If you broke your leg, would you ask for Allah to kill you? Of course not, because not only is that haram, but there's nothing wrong with your body itself, it's just your leg which will heal with time. The same principle applies here.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Would this wish of mine will be answered when I'll reach Heaven? Or still wish for reversal of time will be still rejected and never will be accepted and answered?
If you go to heaven, you will have fun, Allah has promised us that. It is guaranteed. So don't fret about anything else, just focus on getting there.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
You should repent for making such a haram statement. These thoughts you have are just whispers from Shaytan, you will be fine if you stop socialising with such bad people.



Stop being a baby and grow up. Tell them it's haram, and if they don't believe you, who cares? Tell them to jog on, they can't force you to do anything. And I already told you, it's haram to unnecessarily socialise with non-Muslims (and non-mahram women). Now you've learnt (one of the many reasons) why the hard way.

Remember, they might get angry at you, but by doing the haram, Allah will be even more angry with you. Who has more of a right to be pleased? A talking piece of meat, or your creator?



That's kufr. Repent from making such a disgusting dua, and instead pray to Allah to make you stronger. If you broke your leg, would you ask for Allah to kill you? Of course not, because not only is that haram, but there's nothing wrong with your body itself, it's just your leg which will heal with time. The same principle applies here.



If you go to heaven, you will have fun, Allah has promised us that. It is guaranteed. So don't fret about anything else, just focus on getting there.
Ok, fine.

Huh, I would not pray for self death just because I have a broken leg. I only pray for He To reverse time so that new divine laws and legislations can appear, so that when we will reach 2019, I can have His Leave To dance and listen to songs as I want without worrying anymore that I made a sin, because it has been converted from haram to halal, and I seek like this because God is the Law Maker and the obly one who has the right To legislate for us, and I want like this because I can pray so that now I can make any animated image as I want, but only this time I can do by His Leave. Honestly, I dont have the intention of going against His Will. And also I wished for me and my family to have His Leave to go to beach alongside with other families so that she can swim with us, because I'm crazy about swimming and being around people.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-02-2019, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
You should repent for making such a haram statement. These thoughts you have are just whispers from Shaytan, you will be fine if you stop socialising with such bad people.



Stop being a baby and grow up. Tell them it's haram, and if they don't believe you, who cares? Tell them to jog on, they can't force you to do anything. And I already told you, it's haram to unnecessarily socialise with non-Muslims (and non-mahram women). Now you've learnt (one of the many reasons) why the hard way.

Remember, they might get angry at you, but by doing the haram, Allah will be even more angry with you. Who has more of a right to be pleased? A talking piece of meat, or your creator?



That's kufr. Repent from making such a disgusting dua, and instead pray to Allah to make you stronger. If you broke your leg, would you ask for Allah to kill you? Of course not, because not only is that haram, but there's nothing wrong with your body itself, it's just your leg which will heal with time. The same principle applies here.



If you go to heaven, you will have fun, Allah has promised us that. It is guaranteed. So don't fret about anything else, just focus on getting there.
So this means, that if I make Dua for self death, then God will get angry at me and He will definitely reject this Dua for any reason or intention I have, right? If yes, can you provide an evidence from Quran regarding your claim, please?
Why would it be kufr for me to ask God To Grant us new divine laws and legislations? What is wrong in this?
I have tried to make Dua for her guidance, but I have not noticed a sign from her that she wills to accept Islam, she only accept Christianity.
Reply

Alamgir
01-03-2019, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Ok, fine.

Huh, I would not pray for self death just because I have a broken leg. I only pray for He To reverse time so that new divine laws and legislations can appear, so that when we will reach 2019, I can have His Leave To dance and listen to songs as I want without worrying anymore that I made a sin, because it has been converted from haram to halal, and I seek like this because God is the Law Maker and the obly one who has the right To legislate for us, and I want like this because I can pray so that now I can make any animated image as I want, but only this time I can do by His Leave. Honestly, I dont have the intention of going against His Will. And also I wished for me and my family to have His Leave to go to beach alongside with other families so that she can swim with us, because I'm crazy about swimming and being around people.
That's still kufr, the laws are set in stone and for you to think Allah should change them to accommodate your inabilities is the height of arrogance, you act as if you know better than your Lord what is good for you, when you don't. Repent and stop thinking about such stupid things, occupy your mind with other topics.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
So this means, that if I make Dua for self death, then God will get angry at me and He will definitely reject this Dua for any reason or intention I have, right?
Yes.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
If yes, can you provide an evidence from Quran regarding your claim, please?
Do you really know that little about Islam that you doubt what you're saying is haram?

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Why would it be kufr for me to ask God To Grant us new divine laws and legislations? What is wrong in this?
:facepalm:

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I have tried to make Dua for her guidance, but I have not noticed a sign from her that she wills to accept Islam, she only accept Christianity.
I didn't say make dua, I said leave her. Avoid her like the plague. You can make dua for her if you want (obviously that would be a good thing), but the main concern here is you jumping into the same boat as her. We don't want that, so stay away from her and others like her.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-03-2019, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
That's still kufr, the laws are set in stone and for you to think Allah should change them to accommodate your inabilities is the height of arrogance, you act as if you know better than your Lord what is good for you, when you don't. Repent and stop thinking about such stupid things, occupy your mind with other topics.



Yes.



Do you really know that little about Islam that you doubt what you're saying is haram?



:facepalm:



I didn't say make dua, I said leave her. Avoid her like the plague. You can make dua for her if you want (obviously that would be a good thing), but the main concern here is you jumping into the same boat as her. We don't want that, so stay away from her and others like her.
Fine, then I will stop. If I fulfill the Islamic sharia as much as I can with intention of earning peace and tranquility in my grave and Hereafter while being angry? Will this anger will not be recorded as a bad deed if I fulfill the Islamic sharia? I'm sorry, now I'm in period of huge depression, and suddenly I have lost control of anger. Then, when I will pass the exam of grade 12 and all my class mates will through a party, then thats mean I can stay home because of fearing of committing sins. I will let them enjoy while I'm staying at home. I will make some efforts of going to Heaven and there I can enjoy myself as much as I can.
Reply

Alamgir
01-03-2019, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Fine, then I will stop. If I fulfill the Islamic sharia as much as I can with intention of earning peace and tranquility in my grave and Hereafter while being angry? Will this anger will not be recorded as a bad deed if I fulfill the Islamic sharia?
You cannot control your emotions, however, with time, you should find yourself at peace whilst on the right path. Just make sure you find halal methods of recreation.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I'm sorry, now I'm in period of huge depression
That much is obvious. But it's going to be okay, you'll get through this. A good way to help is by eating well and exercising regularly.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Then, when I will pass the exam of grade 12 and all my class mates will through a party, then thats mean I can stay home because of fearing of committing sins.
Have your own party. After saying Isha, get lots of food and drinks, and consume them non-stop while watching an endless stream of (halal) content. Do this until you pass out (but be sure to set an alarm so you can wake up for Fajr). That sounds like a pretty fun night to me.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I will make some efforts of going to Heaven and there I can enjoy myself as much as I can.
:Emoji43:

I know a guy your age might get a little lonely, so you should probably try finding the nearest Masjid and socialising with people there. I highly doubt you're the only Muslim in your area, if you're really in eastern Europe shouldn't there be Turkish brothers you can hang out with?
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-03-2019, 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
You cannot control your emotions, however, with time, you should find yourself at peace whilst on the right path. Just make sure you find halal methods of recreation.



That much is obvious. But it's going to be okay, you'll get through this. A good way to help is by eating well and exercising regularly.



Have your own party. After saying Isha, get lots of food and drinks, and consume them non-stop while watching an endless stream of (halal) content. Do this until you pass out (but be sure to set an alarm so you can wake up for Fajr). That sounds like a pretty fun night to me.



:Emoji43:

I know a guy your age might get a little lonely, so you should probably try finding the nearest Masjid and socialising with people there. I highly doubt you're the only Muslim in your area, if you're really in eastern Europe shouldn't there be Turkish brothers you can hang out with?
I remmeber that I found once a turkish guy, but he was the only forst Muslim. And now when I wish I can talk to a Romanian Muslim scholar, I dont find anywhere, I dont find no Muslim in my area, I only see Christians around me, and I have asked mt mother to take me to a mosque, but she does not know and she does not have time, and she tells me that I dont have time eitger for Mosque because the exams are coming closer in a fast way and I need to prepare myself.
Reply

Alamgir
01-03-2019, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
she tells me that I dont have time eitger for Mosque because the exams are coming closer in a fast way and I need to prepare myself.
You should take the opportunity to focus on your studies, and when your exams are over, then you can focus on socialising by trying to find a Masjid (you can use Google Maps, don't rely on your mother when she clearly doesn't want to help you).
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-03-2019, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
You should take the opportunity to focus on your studies, and when your exams are over, then you can focus on socialising by trying to find a Masjid (you can use Google Maps, don't rely on your mother when she clearly doesn't want to help you).
Is it ok if I wait until exams are over then, I start to prerform x5 ritual prayers? Because, in this time, O'll be so bussy and stressed with exams, and I would have to make extra and fast preparations so that I can succedd in first session of exam so that me and my parents can go to Thailanda in summer vacation, because I've always dreamt of going into a exotic country in summer vacation. And I hope that tgis summer can be the first time in my life that I go there.
Yes but you see? I remember once that when I was in group of bunch of my own Christian class mates, when we were to go to our homes, then I went after a Christian girl thinking that she goes to a place I know so that I can go home easily. But, I have noticed that I got lost in subway and I made myself embarresed in front of others, and now I'm afraid to go on my own because of this. And luckily she called my Christian teacher and she came and picked me up and she helped me to get the right path. And it would take time for me to learn to do on my own wothout google map.

And one thing is that Jinns have a very high life span and we have obly 100 years as life span, sometimes I'm feelin' jealous at them because they live more than we do. And when I make this Dua, I'm doing out of love just to show to my mother how much love I have for her and I really desire for God To Make Heaven be for People of Book and Muslims and To Make the belief of Trinity be 100% true, so that my mother and my father can have a lot of comon things, and now they get mad sometimes at each other just because she believes in Jesus as.... and this fight probably will never end. And I wish only good for both of them, so that they'll be equal and live without problems. But if I keep making Dua and she keeps refusing Islam, then I'll be sad for whole life because when I'll be in Heaven(Hopefully I'll be), then probably I'll notice someone missing: my mother and my grandfather who died as Christian. And I dont even know if I have right to wish for God To remove them from eternal Hell and admite them to Paradise.
But, as long as I found that it is disbelief, then... I'm totally lost and I have to support their fightings... and I have said like this because, I have not expected to find things like this. It gonnaa take me sometimes to get use to this idea and accept them as it is.
Reply

Alamgir
01-03-2019, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Is it ok if I wait until exams are over then, I start to prerform x5 ritual prayers?
No. I did (and still do) exams whilst not just praying 5 times a day, but also fasting. And I'm about the same age as you too (only a little older).

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
me and my parents can go to Thailanda in summer vacation, because I've always dreamt of going into a exotic country in summer vacation.
Didn't you listen to what I said earlier? Stop. Socialising. With. Your family. They're a bad influence, keep to yourself unless it's absolutely necessary.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
remember once that when I was in group of bunch of my own Christian class mates, when we were to go to our homes, then I went after a Christian girl thinking that she goes to a place I know so that I can go home easily. But, I have noticed that I got lost in subway and I made myself embarresed in front of others, and now I'm afraid to go on my own because of this. And luckily she called my Christian teacher and she came and picked me up and she helped me to get the right path. And it would take time for me to learn to do on my own wothout google map.
No offence, but you need to get a grip and learn to look after yourself. You're already 15, most people your age can travel independently.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
And one thing is that Jinns have a very high life span and we have obly 100 years as life span, sometimes I'm feelin' jealous at them because they live more than we do.
Why? We live long enough as it is, and heaven is where the real fun's at.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
. And when I make this Dua, I'm doing out of love just to show to my mother how much love I have for her and I really desire for God To Make Heaven be for People of Book and Muslims and To Make the belief of Trinity be 100% true
This is pure kufr, stop making such haram duas and try to avoid thinking such haram things.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
But if I keep making Dua and she keeps refusing Islam, then I'll be sad for whole life because when I'll be in Heaven(Hopefully I'll be), then probably I'll notice someone missing: my mother and my grandfather who died as Christian.
You'll be in heaven, even if you think you won't like it, Allah will make you like it (e.g he could easily change your state of mind). Don't worry about whether you'll enjoy it or not, because you will, just focus on getting there.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
And I dont even know if I have right to wish for God To remove them from eternal Hell and admite them to Paradise.
You can't, and trust me when I say you'll be having too much fun to even think about them.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
It gonnaa take me sometimes to get use to this idea and accept them as it is.
These things can take time, but be persistent.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-03-2019, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
No. I did (and still do) exams whilst not just praying 5 times a day, but also fasting. And I'm about the same age as you too (only a little older).



Didn't you listen to what I said earlier? Stop. Socialising. With. Your family. They're a bad influence, keep to yourself unless it's absolutely necessary.



No offence, but you need to get a grip and learn to look after yourself. You're already 15, most people your age can travel independently.



Why? We live long enough as it is, and heaven is where the real fun's at.



This is pure kufr, stop making such haram duas and try to avoid thinking such haram things.



You'll be in heaven, even if you think you won't like it, Allah will make you like it (e.g he could easily change your state of mind). Don't worry about whether you'll enjoy it or not, because you will, just focus on getting there.



You can't, and trust me when I say you'll be having too much fun to even think about them.



These things can take time, but be persistent.
Yeah but you see? I really love being a part of a group and going together as gang. And I'm actually 19 years old. Ok, I got it. But when I said-"I wished for God To Make Heaven be for People of Scriptures and Muslims", I meant after He reversed the time To Make Heaven be for this and this, so that everyone can be happy, and all different types believers of now days(when we reach again 2019) they can assist us against ISIS and vice versa and we can be as team and also to have victory against ISIS, because I wished for my mother to feel that she's a true Christian believer and to truly feel that God is with her and He is her protector against disbelievers and evildoers. Thats what I mean. But, I'm gonna stay away from disbelief. I've told by someone that when you'll inshalla go to Heaven, then I'll forget completely that I had a mother or anybody and when I enter Heaven, I would be as a new born, and everything I had learnt will be erased forever(I think). Isn't true? Why do I commit easily kufr??? Is that because I'm a extremely weak Muslim? Do they count? Because, normally I dont do kufr intentionally. Should I be even worried just because I commit them unintentionally and unknowingly? My mother told me that my wish is satanic and only satan whispers this kind of wish just to go against God, and I refused her repeated answer because I was thinking that she tells lies and Bible is full of lies, and I cannot take into consideration whatever she tells me. Because, I dont want for God To blame on that Day for falling into a kufr. But now I accept that it is kufr and I have stopped radically on making this kind of Dua. How can know what are the chances of dying as a true believer? Is it even possible to know the chances?
Acrually, my father is a Muslim.
Reply

Alamgir
01-03-2019, 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Yeah but you see? I really love being a part of a group and going together as gang.
I get it, you're much more social than I am, but I'm afraid you're going to have to learn to be less social for the time being unless you can find good Muslims to hang out with.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I meant
It's still kufr.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
to truly feel that God is with her
He's not, she isn't Muslim, remember?

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
verything I had learnt will be erased forever(I think).
I'm pretty sure that's not true.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Why do I commit easily kufr???
Because you don't know what nullifies one's Islam, so you need to learn about that topic in more detail.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Is that because I'm a extremely weak Muslim?
From my experience, it tends to correlate. But don't worry, if you start following the right path, you'll eventually become much stronger.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Do they count?
So long as you practice Islam and believe in it, yes, it counts. Even if at first you feel a little weak in Iman, over time your Iman will increase insha'allah.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I was thinking that she tells lies and Bible is full of lies, and I cannot take into consideration whatever she tells me.
You think correctly.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
But now I accept that it is kufr and I have stopped radically on making this kind of Dua. How can know what are the chances of dying as a true believer? Is it even possible to know the chances?
The overwhelming majority of people are going to hell. But you've found Islam, so all you need to do now is make sure you remain a good Muslim until the day you day, and then you'll get into heaven.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Acrually, my father is a Muslim.
That's a pretty major detail you should have mentioned earlier. If your father is Muslim, why aren't you asking him to support you? Why can't he take you to a Masjid? Why is he forcing you to live in an environment that doesn't cater to you? Why is he letting your mother act completely out of line by insulting Islam and forcing you to do haram things? Bring your issues up with him.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
And I'm actually 19 years old.
That's even more embarrassing, you need to learn to become more self-sufficient. Heck, at your age you could get a job and earn enough income to live off of.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-04-2019, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
I get it, you're much more social than I am, but I'm afraid you're going to have to learn to be less social for the time being unless you can find good Muslims to hang out with.



It's still kufr.



He's not, she isn't Muslim, remember?



I'm pretty sure that's not true.



Because you don't know what nullifies one's Islam, so you need to learn about that topic in more detail.



From my experience, it tends to correlate. But don't worry, if you start following the right path, you'll eventually become much stronger.



So long as you practice Islam and believe in it, yes, it counts. Even if at first you feel a little weak in Iman, over time your Iman will increase insha'allah.



You think correctly.



The overwhelming majority of people are going to hell. But you've found Islam, so all you need to do now is make sure you remain a good Muslim until the day you day, and then you'll get into heaven.



That's a pretty major detail you should have mentioned earlier. If your father is Muslim, why aren't you asking him to support you? Why can't he take you to a Masjid? Why is he forcing you to live in an environment that doesn't cater to you? Why is he letting your mother act completely out of line by insulting Islam and forcing you to do haram things? Bring your issues up with him.

- - - Updated - - -



That's even more embarrassing, you need to learn to become more self-sufficient. Heck, at your age you could get a job and earn enough income to live off of.
Yeah, but I can change this into good in future but with the help of God. You see? I told my mother that I want to work somewhere for example at McDonald because they have high salary and I need the money, and she tells me that I'm very slow and weak in Math. In my point of view, I rather make a job when I finigh high school and college, like this it would be much faire. Because, I want to get hired at NASA in one of the best careers they have. So that I can make to my parents a big suprize of my success. Some they would make fun of me if they see me working in a very weak job at my age. Because, I saw some of my class mates made of fun of my other class mates by telling: "Dont abandon your job, because it really suits you". And I dont want me to be next after her. Because, they like to make jokes at others after finding something on them.
My father is from Kuwait and he comes only in summer vacation. And showed me a video that at the time on the Prophet when he announced all Muslims that the Message is completed, all they started to celebrate by singing and using musical instruments and the Prophet did not prohibited to them, so that he can show me that I can listen to Rock but Rock songs that contain peacefull and good message, not something that leads to violence and more distress because it would not be healthy for me. If he would be have his job in Bucharest, then probably it would be easy for him to support me. And now I've been discovered by my mother that I had kept hidden some secret photos and she deteled them all, and now I'm angry because I was not able to keep something hidden from anyone as much as I want, and now I feel like I'm punished by God too early for not lowering my gaze, and thats because I'm too addicted to such photos, maybe I should be thankful that He Punished me soo early, right? Because on that Day, it can be even worse, and I saved maybe from that danger? And now I have decided to no longer what shameful photos or videos anymore, that what I felt.
Is it ok if I can make Dua for God To Grant me the same age as prophet Adam had? And also To Make me be at old age too energized as if I'm young and To Make me not to look old man as I think off? Because, I've dreamt of seeing the distant future, and also to have extra time to increase my faith. And I'm scared of thinking what will I look like when I'll be old, because I dont want to find out that that stage to be ugly old man. How can I be sure that this Dua will be answered? It is even halal and acceptible in the Eyes of God?
Reply

Alamgir
01-04-2019, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
In my point of view, I rather make a job when I finigh high school and college, like this it would be much faire.
Okay, but you should still learn to look after yourself to some extent. The fact that you can't navigate in the outside world properly without a guide is a little bit sad.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Because, I want to get hired at NASA
Don't work for NASA, they help the US military.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
My father is from Kuwait and he comes only in summer vacation. And showed me a video that at the time on the Prophet when he announced all Muslims that the Message is completed, all they started to celebrate by singing and using musical instruments and the Prophet did not prohibited to them, so that he can show me that I can listen to Rock but Rock songs that contain peacefull and good message, not something that leads to violence and more distress because it would not be healthy for me. If he would be have his job in Bucharest, then probably it would be easy for him to support me
Okay so your father isn't going to help you much, got it.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
And now I've been discovered by my mother that I had kept hidden some secret photos and she deteled them all, and now I'm angry because I was not able to keep something hidden from anyone as much as I want, and now I feel like I'm punished by God too early for not lowering my gaze
You shouldn't have those photos in the first place, your mother did well to delete them. Try to resist these urges as much as possible, and if you can't let it go all at once, make it a slow thing (e.g you go one day without them, then two, then three, then four, etc).

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Is it ok if I can make Dua for God To Grant me the same age as prophet Adam had? And also To Make me be at old age too energized as if I'm young and To Make me not to look old man as I think off? Because, I've dreamt of seeing the distant future, and also to have extra time to increase my faith. And I'm scared of thinking what will I look like when I'll be old, because I dont want to find out that that stage to be ugly old man. How can I be sure that this Dua will be answered? It is even halal and acceptible in the Eyes of God?
There is nothing haram about praying for good health and a long life.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-04-2019, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
Okay, but you should still learn to look after yourself to some extent. The fact that you can't navigate in the outside world properly without a guide is a little bit sad.



Don't work for NASA, they help the US military.



Okay so your father isn't going to help you much, got it.



You shouldn't have those photos in the first place, your mother did well to delete them. Try to resist these urges as much as possible, and if you can't let it go all at once, make it a slow thing (e.g you go one day without them, then two, then three, then four, etc).



There is nothing haram about praying for good health and a long life.
Yey. If I have I make Dua to have the same age as Adam(I mean by having age of 1000) had with the intention of doing things I havent done before such as: visiting new places I have never been, doing good deeds and also to have extra time on making preparations for that Day?
Really? I thought their job was to discover life beyond Earth and to explore the Universe. What is so bad for them to work for US military?
Do you think that this a minor punishment from God? Should I be thankful that He Punished me too early?
Reply

Alamgir
01-04-2019, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Really? I thought their job was to discover life beyond Earth and to explore the Universe.
Yes, but they only do that to further the US' technological prowess, including the military. This is why you have multiple countries with different space agencies, nobody does these things unless they have a practical purpose, and one of the main benefits of a space programme is how much it can help your military. You'll notice that they have many ex-soldiers working for agencies like NASA.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
What is so bad for them to work for US military?
The fact that this helps the US military launch wars against people who don't deserve it, as they have been doing pretty much ever since the US came into being.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Do you think that this a minor punishment from God?
It might be, it might not be. We don't know.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Should I be thankful that He Punished me too early?
You should repent for your sins and intend to never repeat them (or if it's an addiction, make the intention to cure it).
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-04-2019, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
Yes, but they only do that to further the US' technological prowess, including the military. This is why you have multiple countries with different space agencies, nobody does these things unless they have a practical purpose, and one of the main benefits of a space programme is how much it can help your military. You'll notice that they have many ex-soldiers working for agencies like NASA.



The fact that this helps the US military launch wars against people who don't deserve it, as they have been doing pretty much ever since the US came into being.



It might be, it might not be. We don't know.



You should repent for your sins and intend to never repeat them (or if it's an addiction, make the intention to cure it).
Ok, I'll try my best to cure it and never return to it. Wait, I thought that sins are not something that you can transfer it, right? So whatever US military intends to do, I will not be to be blamed but they will.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-04-2019, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
Yes, but they only do that to further the US' technological prowess, including the military. This is why you have multiple countries with different space agencies, nobody does these things unless they have a practical purpose, and one of the main benefits of a space programme is how much it can help your military. You'll notice that they have many ex-soldiers working for agencies like NASA.



The fact that this helps the US military launch wars against people who don't deserve it, as they have been doing pretty much ever since the US came into being.



It might be, it might not be. We don't know.



You should repent for your sins and intend to never repeat them (or if it's an addiction, make the intention to cure it).
The reason I asked this, is because on that Day, God can reveal this hidden information of mine to whole of His creation and that could be much worse, and I think that if I get Punished in here, when I die I would not be needed to be Punished anymore, because I have paid the punishment, isnt it?
I was thinking to candidate for presedential election in Romania so that I can be the first best president of Romania, is that halal? Because, I want to recover the lost regions from Bulgary, Ukrain and Hungary. And also to unify Republic of Moldova with Romania and become as one. And also to make Romanian's economy be very high and to build many facories and institues more than Ceausescu built. Is there a dua for fulfilling these wishes?
Reply

Alamgir
01-05-2019, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
So whatever US military intends to do, I will not be to be blamed but they will.
No, you'll be blamed because you knowingly assisted them. Therefore, you'll be considered guilty of the same sin.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
isnt it?
That's not how it works. Just sincerely repent and you can avoid being punished in the hereafter.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I was thinking to candidate for presedential election in Romania so that I can be the first best president of Romania, is that halal?
No, because Romania isn't an Islamic country. Not a single country on the planet rules by Sharia, and until one does, working for any government would be haram unless you join them to change the laws so they follow Sharia (but that isn't at all feasible in a country like Romania which doesn't have a Muslim-majority population).

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
Because, I want to recover the lost regions from Bulgary, Ukrain and Hungary. And also to unify Republic of Moldova with Romania and become as one. And also to make Romanian's economy be very high and to build many facories and institues more than Ceausescu built. Is there a dua for fulfilling these wishes?
If that is what you desire, then pray to Allah that a developed, unified and Islamic Greater Romania becomes the reality (the Islamic part is important because it would be haram to pray for your Greater Romania to be ruled by something other than Islam, and as a result your dua wouldn't be accepted), because there is currently no feasible way for it to occur. Even if you lead Romania, you cannot just conquer these nations since NATO will make a big fuss out of it and ruin Romania like they did with Serbia. You can't do this via negotiations either since I doubt these countries are going to willingly hand themselves over to you (since they haven't done that already).
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-05-2019, 08:38 AM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
No, you'll be blamed because you knowingly assisted them. Therefore, you'll be considered guilty of the same sin.

- - - Updated - - -



That's not how it works. Just sincerely repent and you can avoid being punished in the hereafter.



No, because Romania isn't an Islamic country. Not a single country on the planet rules by Sharia, and until one does, working for any government would be haram unless you join them to change the laws so they follow Sharia (but that isn't at all feasible in a country like Romania which doesn't have a Muslim-majority population).



If that is what you desire, then pray to Allah that a developed, unified and Islamic Greater Romania becomes the reality (the Islamic part is important because it would be haram to pray for your Greater Romania to be ruled by something other than Islam, and as a result your dua wouldn't be accepted), because there is currently no feasible way for it to occur. Even if you lead Romania, you cannot just conquer these nations since NATO will make a big fuss out of it and ruin Romania like they did with Serbia. You can't do this via negotiations either since I doubt these countries are going to willingly hand themselves over to you (since they haven't done that already).
But what about Barack Obama who's also Muslim, but the first USA Muslim president? I thought that I cannot impose Islamic sharia in my home land because that would be against Quran's teachings? Because, I remember a story that a person wanted to be a leader and he was taught not to impose Islam in his home land because that would not be just, because people should accept themselves Islam willingly without being forced like myself I did few years ago when my father asked me polite and convinceful to convert to Islam and next day in the morning I have accepted Islam. Thats how supposed to be naturally.

P.S. If I have committed a lie against Quran, please let me know. Because, sometimes I commit these most heinous sins unknowingly. And I was actually planning to recover them in nice way not by declaring war. And if deplomacy failed, then I would have to implement faze 2: surprize invasions because sometomes when you want something and that person does not return to you, you got to do by force. And also, I was thinking to raise people's salary and do other good things to the point where I can be elected for second time too.
Reply

Alamgir
01-05-2019, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
But what about Barack Obama who's also Muslim
He's not Muslim lol, he's never claimed he is. Even if he was, that wouldn't excuse him of his crimes against humanity.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I remember a story that a person wanted to be a leader and he was taught not to impose Islam in his home land because that would not be just, because people should accept themselves Islam willingly without being forced like myself I did few years ago when my father asked me polite and convinceful to convert to Islam and next day in the morning I have accepted Islam. Thats how supposed to be naturally.
Sharia is a law system. It has nothing to do with forcing people to convert to Islam, do not equate the two. And I never said force Sharia upon your country, I said you can only become a part of it's government if you can rule by Sharia or implement it. There is no "force" involved in that suggestion, politicians make decisions about the law all the time. This would be no different. If other Romanians are bitterly opposed, you wouldn't even be able to implement it so you can't force it upon them in the first place.

Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
And I was actually planning to recover them in nice way not by declaring war. And if deplomacy failed, then I would have to implement faze 2: surprize invasions because sometomes when you want something and that person does not return to you, you got to do by force. And also, I was thinking to raise people's salary and do other good things to the point where I can be elected for second time too.
I already told you, you wouldn't be able to take them in any way, and you can't become a part of the Romanian government unless a situation arises where you can rule by Sharia when you join it (but that's almost impossible), so just make dua for an Islamic Greater Romania to emerge.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-05-2019, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
He's not Muslim lol, he's never claimed he is. Even if he was, that wouldn't excuse him of his crimes against humanity.



Sharia is a law system. It has nothing to do with forcing people to convert to Islam, do not equate the two. And I never said force Sharia upon your country, I said you can only become a part of it's government if you can rule by Sharia or implement it. There is no "force" involved in that suggestion, politicians make decisions about the law all the time. This would be no different. If other Romanians are bitterly opposed, you wouldn't even be able to implement it so you can't force it upon them in the first place.



I already told you, you wouldn't be able to take them in any way, and you can't become a part of the Romanian government unless a situation arises where you can rule by Sharia when you join it (but that's almost impossible), so just make dua for an Islamic Greater Romania to emerge.
Ok, now I understand. I said like thid because I read somewhere on internet that Obama competed with his Quran with the actual president: Donald Trump's Bible. And he proved to him that he is wrong about Muslims if I'm not mistaken. But anyway, I can try to implement the Islamic sharia in Romanian government.
Reply

Alamgir
01-05-2019, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
But anyway, I can try to implement the Islamic sharia in Romanian government.
No you can't, it's not currently feasible. Make dua that it becomes so, and then you can try.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-05-2019, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
No you can't, it's not currently feasible. Make dua that it becomes so, and then you can try.
Ok, I'll do that.
Reply

azc
01-05-2019, 05:52 PM
@Alamgir :

You mean if any country isn't ruled by shariah laws, a Muslim can't be the ruler of that country...?
Reply

Alamgir
01-05-2019, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@Alamgir:

You mean if any country isn't ruled by shariah laws, a Muslim can't be the ruler of that country...?
Not unless he can implement Sharia.
Reply

azc
01-05-2019, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
Not unless he can implement Sharia.
on what basis you are saying this...?
Reply

Alamgir
01-05-2019, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by azc
on what basis you are saying this...?
On what basis do you think it's okay to rule by other than Sharia?
Reply

azc
01-05-2019, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
Not unless he can implement Sharia.
Originally Posted by Alamgir
On what basis do you think it's okay to rule by other than Sharia?
I am not making any claim but you and according to Islamic rulings claimant has to prove his claim with evidences.

Ibn ‘Abbas (RadhiyAllahu ‘anhu) said that the Messenger of Allah (SallaAllahu ‘alayhi wasalalm) said:

Were people to be given according to their claims, some would claim the wealth and blood of others. But the burden of proof is upon the claimant and the taking of an oath is upon the one who denies (the allegation).

(A hasan hadith which al-Bayhaqi and others have related. Parts of it is in Bukhari and Muslim)
Reply

Alamgir
01-05-2019, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I am not making any claim but you and according to Islamic rulings claimant has to prove his claim with evidences.
My claim is the standard one, yours is the weird one. Why do you think it isn't compulsory to rule by Sharia?
Reply

azc
01-06-2019, 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
My claim is the standard one, yours is the weird one. Why do you think it isn't compulsory to rule by Sharia?
So you've no proof....!

Most important point is that Islamic rulings and teachings are applied to Muslims, not to kafir.
Reply

Alamgir
01-06-2019, 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by azc
So you've no proof....!
The fact that you're such an experienced member and are genuinely questioning whether or not Muslims have to rule by Sharia is really quite baffling:

http://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/384...s-for-judgment

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/2825...-usool-al-fiqh

Islam web - English Fatwa | Articles | Quran Recitation | Prayer Times | News
Islamweb - the largest Islamic and cultural content on the Internet for the users contain fatwa, quran, articles , fiqh , lectures , prayer times , about islam etc...

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by azc
Most important point is that Islamic rulings and teachings are applied to Muslims, not to kafir.
When did I say otherwise?
Reply

azc
01-06-2019, 03:23 AM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
My claim is the standard one, yours is the weird one. Why do you think it isn't compulsory to rule by Sharia?
Originally Posted by Alamgir
The fact that you're such an experienced member and are genuinely questioning whether or not Muslims have to rule by Sharia is really quite baffling:

http://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/384...s-for-judgment

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/2825...-usool-al-fiqh

Islam web - English Fatwa | Articles | Quran Recitation | Prayer Times | News
Islamweb - the largest Islamic and cultural content on the Internet for the users contain fatwa, quran, articles , fiqh , lectures , prayer times , about islam etc...

- - - Updated - - -



When did I say otherwise?
Most important point of islamization of Muslim countries instead of non Muslim countries is often forgotten.

It wonders me to see the scholars who promptly issues fatwas never dare to ask their rulers to break their friendship with non Muslim countries but reality is before us. And most of them are silent and meek before their rulers.

Double standard is against Islamic teachings.

Quoted fatwas have nothing to do with this issue is being discussed.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...0%2C6815280453
Reply

Alamgir
01-06-2019, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Most important point of islamization of Muslim countries instead of non Muslim countries is often forgotten.
Again, what has that got to do with anything I said? All I said was Muslims cannot work for any government institution that doesn't rule by Sharia and that we must abide by Sharia ourselves.

Originally Posted by azc
It wonders me to see the scholars who promptly issues fatwas never dare to ask their rulers to break their friendship with non Muslim countries
I don't think you read many fatwas.

Originally Posted by azc
Double standard is against Islamic teachings.
Oh the irony!

Originally Posted by azc
Quoted fatwas have nothing to do with this issue is being discussed.
No, your points have nothing to do with what is being discussed. I spoke about how Muslims are obliged to abide by Sharia, you either didn't believe me or misunderstood what I said, I provided evidence, and then you went on some Tablighi Jamaat rant about cleaning up our own house first. There is no strong correlation between my point and yours.
Reply

azc
01-06-2019, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
Again, what has that got to do with anything I said? All I said was Muslims cannot work for any government institution that doesn't rule by Sharia and that we must abide by Sharia ourselves.



I don't think you read many fatwas.



Oh the irony!



No, your points have nothing to do with what is being discussed. I spoke about how Muslims are obliged to abide by Sharia, you either didn't believe me or misunderstood what I said, I provided evidence, and then you went on some Tablighi Jamaat rant about cleaning up our own house first. There is no strong correlation between my point and yours.
Read your quoted fatwas again, I reiterate these fatwas have nothing to do with ''a Muslim can't be a ruler of a non Muslim country''

fatwa of islamweb:
is the answer of

''Does going to non-sharia courts in the presence of sharia courts take one out of the folds of Islam if it is done out of disobedience?''

and fatwa of islamqa is about:

''What is the difference between fiqh and sharia and what is usool ul fiqh?''

can you give ONLY ONE specific dalil from shariah...?
If no, then it's of no use to discuss this topic further.

I don't follow scholars blindly.
Reply

Alamgir
01-06-2019, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Read your quoted fatwas again, I reiterate these fatwas have nothing to do with ''a Muslim can't be a ruler of a non Muslim country''
They clearly state that a Muslim must rule by Sharia. If a country doesn't rule by Sharia, then being a part of it's government would clearly be haram unless you are able to change it's legislation to actually abide by Sharia. This is an easy deduction that anyone with an IQ of above 70 should be able to figure out.

Originally Posted by azc
''Does going to non-sharia courts in the presence of sharia courts take one out of the folds of Islam if it is done out of disobedience?''

and fatwa of islamqa is about:

''What is the difference between fiqh and sharia and what is usool ul fiqh?''
Learn to actually read fatwas themselves rather than just looking at their titles.

Originally Posted by azc
can you give ONLY ONE specific dalil from shariah...?
I gave you evidence, and I'll give you more:

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1071...in-that-system

Since you don't seem to read the fatwas I provide, I'll give you some of the relevant information present in the above link:

"It is not permissible for a Muslim to nominate himself in the hope that he can become part of a system which rules according to something other than that which Allaah has revealed and operates according to something other than the sharee’ah of Islam. It is not permissible for a Muslim to vote for him or for anyone else who will work in that government, unless the one who nominates himself or those who vote for him hope that by getting involved in that they will be able to change the system to one that operates according to the sharee’ah of Islam, and they are using this as a means to overcome the system of government, provided that the one who nominates himself will not accept any position after being elected except one that does not go against Islamic sharee’ah."
Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood.
Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (23/406, 407)

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by azc
I don't follow scholars blindly.
Again, that's a totally different discussion. The fatwas I provided gave evidence for their conclusions, which is more than what you can do for yours.
Reply

M.I.A.
01-06-2019, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus
I just found a passage from Quran saying something that, "whoever believes that Quran is created, has committed disbelief". I was thinking that Islamic sharia is created by God and not by humans. So, what I think is still disbelief? Does that mean, these Islamic sharia which we know, always existed and had no beginning nor end?
"I was thinking that Islamic sharia is created by God and not by humans. So, what I think is still disbelief?"

"whoever believes that Quran is created, has committed disbelief"

..if you believe that the quran is created by allah swt then thats perfectly in line with what is expected from you. if you imply something else then you are probably wrong.


"Does that mean, these Islamic sharia which we know, always existed and had no beginning nor end?"

...well, my western studies are in science.. scientific laws have always been, they will always be.. but our understanding changes as time passes, where that leads us or what becomes of us is a whole different subject.

waiting for another one that can split sea's?



..well..

whos going to tell him where to hit his staff?


that was a joke...but.. (pbuh)

if you think you or i are the enforcers of sharia, then maybe you are mistaken.

to me it imposes itself, if i deviate i feel the effects of deviating in my life, in my tongue.. in my action.. in my family..

it wasnt always like this, for a long time i did not see or think or feel.

i have no idea what i did, which may still be the case..


the masses move by his will, they are where they are and they do what they do by his permission.

but my character leads me to what i am.


even if we all read the book, we will contemplate on things which we relate to.. commit to memory those verses we relate too.. and they will probably be different for all of us.

but you cant really change peoples opinions, because everyone thinks they have the right way.


who will protect you from the world? or the world from you?


its extremely simple, you live your life just like everybody else.

but if you make claim of being guided or wanting to guide.. of imposing law..


then fear allah swt.

he is the protector, the provider and so many things more than that.



if the implementation of sharia law across the world were that easy then, it would have been done already.

as it is, allah swt is far cleverer than we could ever claim to be.


it is a circular argument i suppose.


but at this stage i feel sharia law is imposed by allah swt.

im not in any position to fight what happens, but rather i try to avoid slipping or falling foul to mischief.


you may be different.


but i suppose the rules are the same.
Reply

azc
01-07-2019, 02:13 AM
@Alamgir :

I asked you specific dalil from Quran and hadith and you quoted fatwas of scholars which , invariably, are based on subjectivity. If you are blind followers of fatwas of scholars then why you neglect these following fatwas:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

(Fatwa: 1176/149=B/1429)

India is not an Islamic country but it is a democratic and secular country. Hence it is out of place to look its politics in Islamic perspective and test the parties and political leaders on the principles of the Quran and Hadith. This method would bring nothing except disturbance and confusion. However, one should vote to the party and leader who is better in the favour of Muslims and the country. The status of vote is as testimony and witness; so it is the responsibility of every Muslim should utilize it as much as possible correctly. The vote should not be kept back.

Allah knows Best!

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband
http://www.darulifta-deoband.com/hom...Relations/5024

''In conclusion, voting is not something that is impermissible.''
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/darulifta...0%2C5138483607
Reply

Alamgir
01-07-2019, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I asked you specific dalil from Quran and hadith and you quoted fatwas of scholars which , invariably, are based on subjectivity.
No they're not, they give clear-cut evidence and their position can be pretty easily deduced if you read the Quran and Sunnah in detail.

“And so judge (you O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) among them by what Allaah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allaah’s Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient to Allaah).
50. Do they then seek the judgement of (the days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith”
[al-Maa'idah 5:49-50].
Originally Posted by azc
why you neglect these following fatwas:
Again, you're showing that you clearly haven't paid attention to what I said. I said it is haram for Muslims to work for a government that does not rule by Sharia unless they are able to implement Sharia within that government. Voting has nothing to do with what I said.

Either deal with my point or just stop wasting my time with your red herrings.
Reply

azc
01-07-2019, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
No they're not, they give clear-cut evidence and their position can be pretty easily deduced if you read the Quran and Sunnah in detail.

“And so judge (you O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) among them by what Allaah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allaah’s Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient to Allaah).
50. Do they then seek the judgement of (the days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith”
[al-Maa'idah 5:49-50].


Again, you're showing that you clearly haven't paid attention to what I said. I said it is haram for Muslims to work for a government that does not rule by Sharia unless they are able to implement Sharia within that government. Voting has nothing to do with what I said.

Either deal with my point or just stop wasting my time with your red herrings.
then don't waste your time.

But keep in mind:

quoted ayat have nothing to do with your claim

If ever ever you discuss any topic with me GIVE THE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM.

Else no need to waste my time in future.
Reply

Alamgir
01-07-2019, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by azc
quoted ayat have nothing to do with your claim
:facepalm:

Originally Posted by azc
GIVE THE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM.
I gave you multiple pieces of evidence from reputable scholars who provided ayat to back their fatawa that Muslims must abide by Sharia, and that to do otherwise is haram.

You gave me two completely random Imams, both of which only said voting is halal.

Not only did you not give a source anywhere near as reputable as mine, but your source also didn't contradict my point. I think it's best you save yourself from further embarrassment and stop replying.
Reply

azc
01-08-2019, 05:30 AM
Originally Posted by Alamgir
:facepalm:



I gave you multiple pieces of evidence from reputable scholars who provided ayat to back their fatawa that Muslims must abide by Sharia, and that to do otherwise is haram.

You gave me two completely random Imams, both of which only said voting is halal.

Not only did you not give a source anywhere near as reputable as mine, but your source also didn't contradict my point. I think it's best you save yourself from further embarrassment and stop replying.
You should learn what the definition of specific dalil is.

If quoted Quranic ayat or ahadith don't discuss any particular issue isn't considered as specific dalil, maximum it can be taken as an implication.

Every Muslim has to abide by Islamic shariah within his individual capacity. Who can deny it..?


Fatwa of scholars is merely their opinion, so here reliability is more important than reputability.

According to fatwas of some scholars Democracy is kufr, voting is shirk but this kufr and shirk become halal if a Muslim becomes a ruler of a democratic non Muslim state, intends to change the whole system, implement shariah in the state....????

Interesting thing is that some of the people who are subjected to indoctrination take it as real....

Muslims who live in a non Muslim country are facing a lot of problems but this fatwa shopping increases the problems for this ummah- more and more, and blind followers spreading it on internet, causing mockery of Islam.
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
01-08-2019, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Fatwa of scholars is merely their opinion, so here reliability is more important than reputability.
Yes, just like the incorrect Fataawaa on aqiidah you posted in this thread. Good to know you have come to realize your mistake.
Reply

azc
01-08-2019, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
Yes, just like the incorrect Fataawaa on aqiidah you posted in this thread. Good to know you have come to realize your mistake.
It's not the fatwa, was an article. It's an comprehensive answer to your objections, whether or not you accept is your personal matter.
Reply

MazharShafiq
01-08-2019, 06:15 PM
yes Islamic sharya really created by Allah for human beings
Reply

Alamgir
01-09-2019, 08:53 AM
Originally Posted by azc
If quoted Quranic ayat or ahadith don't discuss any particular issue isn't considered as specific dalil, maximum it can be taken as an implication.

Every Muslim has to abide by Islamic shariah within his individual capacity. Who can deny it..?

According to fatwas of some scholars Democracy is kufr, voting is shirk but this kufr and shirk become halal if a Muslim becomes a ruler of a democratic non Muslim state, intends to change the whole system, implement shariah in the state....????
.

The quoted ayat clearly refer to the issue.

If you don't deny that Muslims must abide by Sharia, then why are you arguing with me? That's literally what I said.

No, not abiding by Sharia doesn't suddenly become halal if you want to establish Sharia (the ends don't justify the means). Muslims can only work for a government if all aspects of it that don't contradict Sharia are removed, and then they must implement Sharia (unless it's already implemented). If that's not possible then a Muslim should stay out of the government and it's affairs.
Reply

azc
01-09-2019, 04:45 PM
@Alamgir :

It's the sleight of hands that changes haram into halal and vice versa.... And.... you are mesmerized by sectarian mentality.....!
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-25-2017, 12:15 AM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-23-2013, 11:52 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-06-2012, 10:01 AM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-07-2005, 06:47 AM
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | UK Wholesale Certified Face Masks, Hand Sanitiser & PPE

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!