PDA

View Full Version : Resisting Modern Culture



fschmidt
01-19-2019, 02:27 AM
Modern culture is an infectious disease that causes depravity. Do you care about this? Do you want to resist depravity?

I ask because I want to organize some means of resisting modern culture. Unlike my previous attempts, I want to do this in a way that works whatever your religion is. All religions are welcome, but naturally I would expect members of conservative religions like Islam and Orthodox Christianity to be more likely to be interested. But regardless of your religion, please let me know if you are interested in working to resist depraved modern culture. I want to discuss ideas about how we could do this.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
ardianto
01-19-2019, 03:56 AM
Greetings fschmidt,

I am a Muslim who come from Java ethnic, an ethnic that known as has conservative culture. But I grew up with modern culture that very influenced by modern Western culture. And just like other Westernized boys, I saw traditional Javanese culture as something that out of date and not suitable for life in the modern age.

But then my mind began to change when I reach phase of age 40, when I began to reflect again the life journey that I have passed. Suddenly I felt I wanted to look again at the traditional culture that I've ever abandoned. I tought, might be I would find some wisdoms that I could apply for my life.

So I started trying to rediscover the wisdoms in traditional culture, and I found many wisdoms that teach love and care to the other, empathy, patience, and many other wise things. I also found something that has been missing in the modern culture, .... sprituality, aspect that teaches closeness between the creations and The Creator.

Modern culture is too materilaistic, and lack of spirituality. Modern culture encourage us to always pursue success, but doesn't remind us to be grateful to The Creator for the success we have reached. Modern culture motivate us to win the competition in life, but doesn't teach us to honour the defeated.

Traditional culture teaches many wisdoms that can prevent us to be involved in crazyness of the modern age. If we can rediscover these wisdoms and teach it to the people, then In Shaa Allah, it could reduce deprivation in the modern age.
Reply

Abz2000
01-19-2019, 04:10 AM
God knows if it's possible to be truly successful in a state of continually prioritised resistance -since the measure of success would be the level of sabotage or avoidance of an " anti- " figure or concept, this is called "damage limitation" and a feudal system which is more focused on passive survival instead of positive advancement in a given direction can turn out to be very dangerous as it approaches it's peak or seat of power.

Maybe useful to wonder if it's better to serve something/someone Who is worthy and advance positively, than it is to focus all of one's energy on setting up anti-satanic groups - this is not to say that the struggle to do what is just isn't a duty of every human being -rather- that theres a psychological hopelessness in focusing only on resistance, since purpose is defeated once the easily attainable objective is scaled. Such movements are useful as disposable ammo in a bigger game, but such movements themselves are logically pawn pieces.

....consider the difference between progress in Makkah where more focus was on resistance and courage to stand up to leaders and against family traditions, and that in al Madeenah where the focus was on actually running government.

Pls don't get me wrong, i understand the need for struggle against the evil that comes out of others, and that which is within myself, but i also know that i cannot spend my entire budget on the mafia and penetentiary.


The core question is aim and focus .... to what end?
Reply

fschmidt
01-19-2019, 04:14 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Traditional culture teaches many wisdoms that can prevent us to be involved in crazyness of the modern age. If we can rediscover these wisdoms and teach it to the people, then In Shaa Allah, it could reduce deprivation in the modern age.
Unfortunately teaching isn't enough. Children don't have enough judgement to judge which teaching is best. So they must be protected from modern culture. Even many adults don't have enough judgement to understand the harm that modern entertainment can have on a person. This is why I want to organize groups of people who can cooperate to resist modern culture. I will do this locally where I live, but I am looking for feedback online.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
fschmidt
01-19-2019, 04:54 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
God knows if it's possible to be truly successful in a state of continually prioritised resistance -since the measure of success would be the level of sabotage or avoidance of an " anti- " figure or concept, this is called "damage limitation" and a feudal system which is more focused on passive survival instead of positive advancement in a given direction can turn out to be very dangerous as it approaches it's peak or seat of power.

Maybe useful to wonder if it's better to serve something/someone Who is worthy and advance positively, than it is to focus all of one's energy on setting up anti-satanic groups - this is not to say that the struggle to do what is just isn't a duty of every human being -rather- that theres a psychological hopelessness in focusing only on resistance, since purpose is defeated once the easily attainable objective is scaled. Such movements are useful as disposable ammo in a bigger game, but such movements themselves are logically pawn pieces.

....consider the difference between progress in Makkah where more focus was on resistance and courage to stand up to leaders and against family traditions, and that in al Madeenah where the focus was on actually running government.

Pls don't get me wrong, i understand the need for struggle against the evil that comes out of others, and that which is within myself, but i also know that i cannot spend my entire budget on the mafia and penetentiary.


The core question is aim and focus .... to what end?
Obviously I need clarify what I have in mind. By "resist" I don't mean to fight a culture war. Rather I mean to build a culture wall, to figure out how to keep modern culture out of the group. This approach doesn't threaten those in power, so it won't attract persecution. This approach certainly is possible because it has been done successfully by traditional Anabaptists (like Amish and Mennonites) in America. But the exact Anabaptist approach won't work in Islam because it is based on innovations in religion. Rather Islam must seek a solution outside of religion that works to protect religion so that Islam can avoid corruption.

The Mecca/Medina analogy perfectly fits my point. For all practical purposes, Muslims today are like in Mecca. What I want is a virtual Medina. This was a self-governing community containing multiple religions that worked to protect itself from evil. This is what Anabaptist churches do. And this is what I would like to see people from other religions do. Note that one doesn't need a civil government to govern a group. A group can simply govern itself independent of the normal government, and this is what Anabaptists do.
Reply

Abz2000
01-19-2019, 05:45 AM
The logic of individuals forming a group is to increase the ability to get more done without stepping on each others' feet, and that logic implies an advance towards an ultimate international group of humans .... best to wonder what that group should be looking for because it appears we are wandering aimlessly (myself included) and our purpose would be defeated if it's prinipal energies are focused on resistance rather than advancement in a viable direction.
Focal point......
Reply

fschmidt
01-19-2019, 06:11 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
The logic of individuals forming a group is to increase the ability to get more done without stepping on each others' feet, and that logic implies an advance towards an ultimate international group of humans .... best to wonder what that group should be looking for because it appears we are wandering aimlessly (myself included) and our purpose would be defeated if it's prinipal energies are focused on resistance rather than advancement in a viable direction.
Focal point......
The purpose of the group would be to allow its members to better follow their own religion without corruption from modern culture. For each member, his personal goal should be to follow his religion as well as possible. The final outcome of this is for God to decide, but at least such a group would diminish the influence of Satan and so make good outcomes more likely.
Reply

Abz2000
01-19-2019, 08:58 AM
There's home schooling, taking them to an Islam respecting country for extended periods or as long as possible so they learn that people do and can respect other rules and grow up to be at least socially disciplined, and so they ward off that inferiority complex which tends to develop in humans (since they are social creatures who seek to conform to acceptable norms) after having spent all their lives as a minority - and more importantly - brutally honest history. It is the teaching of history which shapes the mindset of a generation since history provides a footing for understanding current affairs..... that's what i'm gonna focus on again inshaAllah - the Quran is packed with history lessons for a reason.
Reply

ardianto
01-19-2019, 09:42 AM
I maybe wrong in judging, bro fschmidt. But, seem like your idea is influenced by conception of monastery, where group of religious people live together in a place that protected from the hustle and bustle of worldly life out there, and focusing their live to serve God.
Reply

eesa the kiwi
01-19-2019, 10:15 AM
The root of all this corruption is shirk with Allah and disbelief in Allah and his messenger sallaho alayhi wa sallam

You see this corruption and the good Allah has created you rejects this but as long as you reject Islam thinking you know better than the messenger of Allah sallaho alayhi wa sallam you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem

Let's say you find a utopia in this life, if you are headed to the fire for rejecting the message of Islam then what good would that utopia do you

You're so close brother but islam means submission to the will of Allah. You need to leave this I know better nonsense and submit to Allahs wisdom in legislating the religion




Has the time not come for those who have believed that their hearts should become humbly submissive at the remembrance of Allah and what has come down of the truth? And let them not be like those who were given the Scripture before, and a long period passed over them, so their hearts hardened; and many of them are defiantly disobedient. Quran 57:16

I don't want to derail your thread further but if you have any questions about Islam or just want someone to bounce ideas off my PMs open.
Reply

Junon
01-19-2019, 03:58 PM
Salaam

I think one problem we have is that many dont know how to understand and interpret what modernity is. Its important to read what thinkers past and present have said about modernity. Here are two examples.

Blurb

The prevailing sentiment of contemporary intellectuals is that the human condition has never been better. History is regarded as lengthy episode of oppression that human beings have gradually but steadily fought to overcome with considerable success. Evidence of these successes that are commonly offered include increased material consumption, better health and longer life expectancy, technological development and, above all, the ongoing triumph of “democracy” and “human rights.” However, the nineteenth and twentieth century produced an array of dissident thinkers that expressed a great skepticism of modern civilization.

Their individual critiques were often vastly different from one another. Yet the common idea that emerges from work of these genuine intellectual mavericks is one that laments the loss of traditional societies, and pessimism about the new world that modernity has brought. Instead, the modern project has been regarded by thinkers as different as Nietzsche, G.K. Chesterton and Alain De Benoist to have been a cultural and spiritual degeneration that diminished rather than elevated the nobility of man. This work by Keith Preston examines the ideas of these thinkers, and considers the potential relevance of their insights in the postmodern age.




Degenerate Moderns: Modernity as Rationalized Sexual Misbehaviour

Blurb

In this groundbreaking new book, Jones shows how some of the major determining leaders in modern thought and culture have rationalized their own immoral behavior and projected it onto a universal canvas. The main thesis of this book is that, in the intellectual life, there are only two ultimate alternatives: either the thinker conforms desire to truth or he conforms truth to desire.

In the last one hundred years, the western cultural elite embarked upon a project which entailed the reversal of the values of the intellectual life so that truth would be subjected to desire as the final criterion of intellectual value. In looking at recent biographies of such major moderns as Freud, Kinsey, Keynes, Margaret Mead, Picasso, and others, there is a remarkable similarity between their lives and thought. After becoming involved in sexual license early on, they invariably chose an ideology or art form which subordinated reality to the exigencies of their sexual misbehavior.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Degenerate-...nerate+moderns

Blurb

The classic world history of the events, ideas, and personalities of the twentieth century.

Reply

fschmidt
01-19-2019, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
There's home schooling, taking them to an Islam respecting country for extended periods or as long as possible so they learn that people do and can respect other rules and grow up to be at least socially disciplined, and so they ward off that inferiority complex which tends to develop in humans (since they are social creatures who seek to conform to acceptable norms) after having spent all their lives as a minority - and more importantly - brutally honest history. It is the teaching of history which shapes the mindset of a generation since history provides a footing for understanding current affairs..... that's what i'm gonna focus on again inshaAllah - the Quran is packed with history lessons for a reason.
I agree with all this but I don't think it is enough. Children will naturally follow the dominant culture that surrounds them most of the time. This is why you need a local community. I actively support the school at my local mosque for this reason, but it only has elementary school, not high school, because the mosque isn't big enough to support more. Ideally all the conservative religions in my area would cooperate to create a first rate school for all grades. This is the kind of thing that a group against modern culture could work on.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by ardianto
I maybe wrong in judging, bro fschmidt. But, seem like your idea is influenced by conception of monastery, where group of religious people live together in a place that protected from the hustle and bustle of worldly life out there, and focusing their live to serve God.
It's not. I don't have a Christian background and I consider monasteries fairly extreme. I also support family life which monasteries don't have. My idea is mostly influenced by conservative Mennonites and Orthodox Judaism which are the two groups that successfully resist modern culture.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
The root of all this corruption is shirk with Allah and disbelief in Allah and his messenger sallaho alayhi wa sallam

You see this corruption and the good Allah has created you rejects this but as long as you reject Islam thinking you know better than the messenger of Allah sallaho alayhi wa sallam you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem

Let's say you find a utopia in this life, if you are headed to the fire for rejecting the message of Islam then what good would that utopia do you

You're so close brother but islam means submission to the will of Allah. You need to leave this I know better nonsense and submit to Allahs wisdom in legislating the religion


Has the time not come for those who have believed that their hearts should become humbly submissive at the remembrance of Allah and what has come down of the truth? And let them not be like those who were given the Scripture before, and a long period passed over them, so their hearts hardened; and many of them are defiantly disobedient. Quran 57:16
I was told at my mosque that there is a hadith that says that moral communities will prosper even if they aren't Muslim. History certainly supports this. Since I don't believe in heaven and hell, I am not concerned about this issue. (This is the Old Testament view, see Ecclesiastes 3:19-22.) My focus is on this life and all conservative religions share the same basic ethics that I support.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Junon
I think one problem we have is that many dont know how to understand and interpret what modernity is. Its important to read what thinkers past and present have said about modernity. Here are two examples.
While I enjoy philosophy, it can become a tar pit that prevents effective action. A group that resists modern culture doesn't have to agree on exactly what modernity is. It just has to agree that much of the dominant culture today is bad and should be resisted. If everyone in the group agrees that some aspect of modern culture is bad, then we can move on to discussing how to avoid this aspect of modern culture.

Anyway, here is video you may like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uULqvWYXYI
Reply

ardianto
01-20-2019, 02:05 AM
Not modern culture itself that ruin people, but hedonism. A lifestyle which someone being obsessed with pleasure without thinking whether this pleasure is sinful or not. I myself ever been a hedonist in my young age although, Alhamdulillah, just for a while.

From my socialization with hedonist people I could see how they are. They are too materialistic, but lack of social care. They adore and praise the rich with extravagant lifestyle, but have no attention to the poor people. I remember when a rich guy could not get his dream car because someone else bought it before him. He got many sympathies from the hedonists around him. But when those hedonists saw someone who they knew suffered from poverty, they didn't even care.

In another hand, I also socialized with people from contrary type. People who active in social activities, helping the poor, helping disaster victims. They are great in social care. And from what I've seen, thgey have good lifestyle. Never go to disco, never involved in crazy parties, never use drug. They fill their free time with positive activities like sport and making diy projects.

From what I've noticed, I take a conclusion. People with great social care will not fall into hedonism. So we must teach and encourage children to have sense of social care to prevent them fall into hedonism.
Reply

fschmidt
01-26-2019, 04:55 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Not modern culture itself that ruin people, but hedonism. A lifestyle which someone being obsessed with pleasure without thinking whether this pleasure is sinful or not.
Modern culture is much worse than hedonism. Modern culture supports evil even when that evil isn't pleasant. Feminists make women work instead of having a family. Is that pleasant for women? No, it is simply evil. Modern culture actively works to replace all good with bad/evil even when this requires effort. It replaces good architecture with bad architecture, good art with bad art, etc. Hedonism is neutral, not supporting good or evil. Modern culture is pure evil, always supporting evil at the expense of good no matter how much work or pain this involves.

By the way, I have started working on my plans in this thread:

http://www.undepraved.org/
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 61
    Last Post: 01-15-2019, 12:35 AM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-15-2018, 03:06 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-30-2010, 12:22 AM
  4. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-10-2007, 05:04 AM
  5. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-08-2005, 04:51 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!