How can I avoid free mixing and "sisterliness" or "aunties"

[SintoDinto]

I am often put into environments in my family where guests free mix, and it often leads to fitnah, and on one occasion it was particularly bad and lasting for a long time with a girl much younger than me but pubescent when I was 18, and when I was 18 another encounter with such a girl and her older sister who was older than me and saw me as a "little brother", and on other occasions it would be adults and I would think much of this especially he older ones but I am starting to be troubled, for instance, a sunni shia couple from other than our homeland came over recently, and the woman was in her early thirties, and I felt uncomfortable. when i went to go with the man to pray in congregation i found out he was shia and our rituals and adhaan were completely different!!! i felt uncomfortable trying to keep up. even when i talk to an "auntie" in her 50s i felt it was indecent to talk over the phone for no reason and i felt deep shame, despite her always saying i am like her "child" due to the close friendship with my mother. what should i do, given the fact that disability services is taking a long time to help me get a job and get me through the hiring process after filling out bureacracy and I can't drive and i depend on my mother? (oh, and i rely on disability services to get me to learn how to drive, too, given my autism)

[Mandy]

I am sorry brother, but I do not understand your question.
Who is this "much younger but pubescent girl"??? Is she your aunts daughter??
Certainly talking on the phone with a 50 years old lady about her helping you with money is not making you feel uncomfortable. If it is required, then it is not a problem. Is it the way she is talking to you that bothers you?

I also fail to see what the shia couple who had different rituals come into all this??


I am also very sorry that you have trouble with bureaucracy. Unfortunate, such problem seem to be the one and only things that everyone on the planet seems to share!
I hope your problems are resolves soon.

[SintoDinto]

I am sorry brother, but I do not understand your question.
Who is this "much younger but pubescent girl"??? Is she your aunts daughter??
Certainly talking on the phone with a 50 years old lady about her helping you with money is not making you feel uncomfortable. If it is required, then it is not a problem. Is it the way she is talking to you that bothers you?

I also fail to see what the shia couple who had different rituals come into all this??


I am also very sorry that you have trouble with bureaucracy. Unfortunate, such problem seem to be the one and only things that everyone on the planet seems to share!
I hope your problems are resolves soon.

no no no, sister "auntie" is a term in the indian subcontinent and in turkey and turkic cultures for "elderly woman or woman who is old enough to be older than your mother (or as old as your mother)" i am turkish. sorry, i was just venting i guess, with the prayers, i tend to get off topic. i guess i was just frustrated. no the girl was the eldest daughter in a family that was friends with our family, and whose mother knew my mother. they were visiting for eid. me and the elder woman weren't discussing money, we were talking for no reason. sometimes my mother invites guests and the men and women free mix. that's what makes me uncomfortable. the foreign woman (in 30s) would be referred to as "abla" (elder sister) because she is old enough to be considered superior and not "marriageable" and btw she is utrkic so we can understand each other and use same words. sorry for misunderstanding

[MazharShafiq]

Praise be to Allaah.

The meeting together, mixing, and intermingling of men and women in one place, the crowding of them together, and the revealing and exposure of women to men are prohibited by the Law of Islam (Shari'ah). These acts are prohibited because they are among the causes for fitnah (temptation or trial which implies evil consequences), the arousing of desires, and the committing of indecency and wrongdoing.

Among the many proofs of prohibition of the meeting and mixing of men and women in the Qur’aan and Sunnah are:

Verse No. 53 of Surat al-Ahzab, or the Confederates (Interpretation of the meaning); "...for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs..."

In explaining this Verse, Ibn Kathir (May Allaah have mercy on him) said: "Meaning, as I forbade you to enter their rooms, I forbid you to look at them at all. If one wants to take something from them, one should do so without looking at them. If one wants to ask a woman for something, the same has to be done from behind a screen."

The Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) enforced separation of men and women even at Allaah’s most revered and preferred place, the mosque. This was accomplished via the separation of the women’s rows from the men’s; men were asked to stay in the mosque after completion of the obligatory prayer so that women will have enough time to leave the mosque; and, a special door was assigned to women

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[bint e aisha]

Assalamu alaikum

1. Do not disobey Allah in order to please people
2. Maintain your distance from the opposite gender
3. Be firm
4. Be a man

Does your family know you're Muslim?

[SintoDinto]

Assalamu alaikum

1. Do not disobey Allah in order to please people
2. Maintain your distance from the opposite gender
3. Be firm
4. Be a man

Does your family know you're Muslim?

yes, they know I'm Muslim, and the only ones in my post-divorce family besides my father and his wife who are practicing at a basic level are my mother and MAYBE mybrother (THOUGH, I dont know, I have no idea what goes on in his life, we haven't spoken in years despite my efforts to reach out to him, and once his effort to reach out to me that resulted in him yelling at me). My father would probably never tolerate me calling random women, although i remember he has had free mixing before, but he's gotten more and more religious over the years, and he is strict about my interactions with the opposite gender considering my fitan in the past, but hey, my mom won the custody battle, and he barely plays a role in my life, dont know if he doesnt want to or if he's just moved on or if ive pushed him away......i also have a sister who ran away with a non muslim due to my mom not allowing it, and my mom eventually allowed it and they married she's not practicing as far as i can tell and doesn't like to talk about religion, but she keeps some religion intact, like not drinking alcohol, not eating pork, fasting at least a day during ramadan, visiting my mother for eid.

[bint e aisha]

yes, they know I'm Muslim, and the only ones in my post-divorce family besides my father and his wife who are practicing at a basic level are my mother and MAYBE mybrother (THOUGH, I dont know, I have no idea what goes on in his life, we haven't spoken in years despite my efforts to reach out to him, and once his effort to reach out to me that resulted in him yelling at me). My father would probably never tolerate me calling random women, although i remember he has had free mixing before, but he's gotten more and more religious over the years, and he is strict about my interactions with the opposite gender considering my fitan in the past, but hey, my mom won the custody battle, and he barely plays a role in my life, dont know if he doesnt want to or if he's just moved on or if ive pushed him away......i also have a sister who ran away with a non muslim due to my mom not allowing it, and my mom eventually allowed it and they married she's not practicing as far as i can tell and doesn't like to talk about religion, but she keeps some religion intact, like not drinking alcohol, not eating pork, fasting at least a day during ramadan, visiting my mother for eid.

So your mother is a Christian and father and rest of the family are Muslims I take although they do not live with you?

[SintoDinto]

So your mother is a Christian and father and rest of the family are Muslims I take although they do not live with you?

no, my mom is a muslim, but she is not practicing in this regard or some other regards and my brother and sister are likely not practicing and my father and stepmom are practicing except some few regards

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also, i do live with my mother

[bint e aisha]

no, my mom is a muslim, but she is not practicing in this regard or some other regards and my brother and sister are likely not practicing and my father and stepmom are practicing except some few regards

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also, i do live with my mother

I see brother. Do you live in a Muslim community? Can you find practicing Muslims in your locality or Masjid whom you can spend time with?

[SintoDinto]

I see brother. Do you live in a Muslim community? Can you find practicing Muslims in your locality or Masjid whom you can spend time with?

I Live in america. There are many muslim families in my jamaat who practice full gender segregation. i just don't know that many, if any except
1.(the one who i intermingled with two girls, i only intermingled with them because there was only 1 table and it was my non practicing sister's house we were at and i was surrounded by supervision)
as for other masjids, i am too shy, and i fear their backwardsness and love of dictators. like erdogan. here in america we have something known as ICNA, a convention where muslims gather, and they always invite firaun erdogan, and once they openly discussed how to kidnap turkish dissidents from abroad and send them to turkey. i even met a sheikh who denied my interpretation of a dream because in his words, "your dream does not mean erdogan will fall from power because he is the best president in the whole wide world, and he will continue to be the best president in the whole wide world forever." (erdogan's approval rating is 33.6 percent, down from 39.8 percent in november 14, and there is a major economic crisis in turkey, which is seen as the number one problem in turkey. he even had to form an alliance with the ultranationalist mhp to stay in power last two elections due to rising authoritarianism, but luckily his popularity was temporarily boosted, then shrunk by a coup attempt, which he overreacted to).

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I see brother. Do you live in a Muslim community? Can you find practicing Muslims in your locality or Masjid whom you can spend time with?

also, i do not know what to say, and i already know so many people and am comfortable. i am kind of a hermit, too. I also attend one other masjid, though, but i have trouble making friends or attending events due to my autism, depression, introversion, anti-social tendencies, and complacency among other factors

[bint e aisha]

I Live in america. There are many muslim families in my jamaat who practice full gender segregation. i just don't know that many, if any except
1.(the one who i intermingled with two girls, i only intermingled with them because there was only 1 table and it was my non practicing sister's house we were at and i was surrounded by supervision)
as for other masjids, i am too shy, and i fear their backwardsness and love of dictators. like erdogan. here in america we have something known as ICNA, a convention where muslims gather, and they always invite firaun erdogan, and once they openly discussed how to kidnap turkish dissidents from abroad and send them to turkey. i even met a sheikh who denied my interpretation of a dream because in his words, "your dream does not mean erdogan will fall from power because he is the best president in the whole wide world, and he will continue to be the best president in the whole wide world forever." (erdogan's approval rating is 33.6 percent, down from 39.8 percent in november 14, and there is a major economic crisis in turkey, which is seen as the number one problem in turkey. he even had to form an alliance with the ultranationalist mhp to stay in power last two elections due to rising authoritarianism, but luckily his popularity was temporarily boosted, then shrunk by a coup attempt, which he overreacted to).

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also, i do not know what to say, and i already know so many people and am comfortable. i am kind of a hermit, too. I also attend one other masjid, though, but i have trouble making friends or attending events due to my autism, depression, introversion, anti-social tendencies, and complacency among other factors

Oh I thought you live in Turkey!!

Btw I don't see why you brought Erdogan into this discussion but did I read that correctly...Firawn Erdogan? Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'oon! I like Tayyip Erdogan. Can you please help me understand why you think he is so bad?

We can agree to disagree in the end, it is not a big deal but I want to understand because you have better knowledge about Turkey and its politics than me.

[SintoDinto]

Oh I thought you live in Turkey!!

Btw I don't see why you brought Erdogan into this discussion but did I read that correctly...Firawn Erdogan? Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'oon! I like Tayyip Erdogan. Can you please help me understand why you think he is so bad?

We can agree to disagree in the end, it is not a big deal but I want to understand because you have better knowledge about Turkey and its politics than me.

he is a dcitator. more arrested journalists in turkey than any other country. he heavily censors the internet, even banning wikipedia, he bans gulen movement for allegedly "infilitrating the state" over 2013 corruption scandal involving his ministers and investigation by gulenist judges that got to the top of the state through hard work though the whole country later blamed it on "stolen entrance exams" he used hate speech against them, stole money from the people to build extravagant palaces, massive corruption, war against kurds in southeast to kill pkk fighters resulting in destruction of cities and mass civilian casualties (like assad), arrested tens of thousands of people after failed military coup while he immediately blamed on gulen movement (which used to be allied with him btw, this coup was fter corruption scandal) but which was likely an inside job by intelligence of turkey, he had soldiers tortured heavily including my cousin, who was not involved in coup, torturing them to give testimony they were involved and were gulenist and took orders from fethullah gulen who lives in usa, arrested tens of thousands of doctors, writers, authors, lawyers, judges, teachers, nurses, politicians, engineers, labor workers, professors, etc. and dismissed almost 200,000 causing a massive brain drain, he tortured men women in jail and arrested 17,000+ women and their hundreds of children under the age of 6 and they have been there since july 15 2016, and caused thousands to flee into enemy greece seeking asylum often r isking their lives often drowning in river, often going into aegan and having boat capsizing, arresting anyone with shaykh fethullah s books, torturing people who are kidnapped from abroad into being "secret witness" against random people, broken judicial system that always favors erdogan, kidnapping people from europe, spying, bribing politicians abroad withairplanes full of money to extradite teachers who build schools in foreign countries so they can be jailed in turkey, arresting anyone with "bylock app" (messaging app), arresting people on empty charges, referring to gulen movement as virus, calling furkan vakfi cemaat of being a terrorist organization simply because leader accused erdogan of being a zaalim, and that akp should change its name to zkp (zulumle kalkinma partisi (injustice and development party akp means "justice and developemtn party") torturing teachers to death, denying prisoners their medication, etc. arming isis, saying "why do you call al nusra terrorists?" doing trade with israel 10 times as much, yet claiming to be anti israel, arresting soldiers who stopped people bringing weapons to isis, buying oil from isis, wiretapped conversations showed them saying they were arming boko haram, arms shipments from turkey to nigeria, wiretapped conversations showed them discussing how to launch a false flag to invade syria, click here for more info https://turkeypurge.com/

[bint e aisha]

he is a dcitator. more arrested journalists in turkey than any other country. he heavily censors the internet, even banning wikipedia, he bans gulen movement for allegedly "infilitrating the state" over 2013 corruption scandal involving his ministers and investigation by gulenist judges that got to the top of the state through hard work though the whole country later blamed it on "stolen entrance exams" he used hate speech against them, stole money from the people to build extravagant palaces, massive corruption, war against kurds in southeast to kill pkk fighters resulting in destruction of cities and mass civilian casualties (like assad), arrested tens of thousands of people after failed military coup while he immediately blamed on gulen movement (which used to be allied with him btw, this coup was fter corruption scandal) but which was likely an inside job by intelligence of turkey, he had soldiers tortured heavily including my cousin, who was not involved in coup, torturing them to give testimony they were involved and were gulenist and took orders from fethullah gulen who lives in usa, arrested tens of thousands of doctors, writers, authors, lawyers, judges, teachers, nurses, politicians, engineers, labor workers, professors, etc. and dismissed almost 200,000 causing a massive brain drain, he tortured men women in jail and arrested 17,000+ women and their hundreds of children under the age of 6 and they have been there since july 15 2016, and caused thousands to flee into enemy greece seeking asylum often r isking their lives often drowning in river, often going into aegan and having boat capsizing, arresting anyone with shaykh fethullah s books, torturing people who are kidnapped from abroad into being "secret witness" against random people, broken judicial system that always favors erdogan, kidnapping people from europe, spying, bribing politicians abroad withairplanes full of money to extradite teachers who build schools in foreign countries so they can be jailed in turkey, arresting anyone with "bylock app" (messaging app), arresting people on empty charges, referring to gulen movement as virus, calling furkan vakfi cemaat of being a terrorist organization simply because leader accused erdogan of being a zaalim, and that akp should change its name to zkp (zulumle kalkinma partisi (injustice and development party akp means "justice and developemtn party") torturing teachers to death, denying prisoners their medication, etc. arming isis, saying "why do you call al nusra terrorists?" doing trade with israel 10 times as much, yet claiming to be anti israel, arresting soldiers who stopped people bringing weapons to isis, buying oil from isis, wiretapped conversations showed them saying they were arming boko haram, arms shipments from turkey to nigeria, wiretapped conversations showed them discussing how to launch a false flag to invade syria, click here for more info https://turkeypurge.com/

Erdogan is the only leader in the entire world whom I admire. I cannot comment on these allegations unless I hear the other side of the story.

But do you agree that he is at least better than previous ones who secularized Turkey like Ataturk?

Thanks for your views by the way.

[SintoDinto]

Erdogan is the only leader in the entire world whom I admire. I cannot comment on these allegations unless I hear the other side of the story.

But do you agree that he is at least better than previous ones who secularized Turkey like Ataturk?

Thanks for your views by the way.

erdogan is starting to distance people from religion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43981745

more on babies in prisons: https://ahvalnews.com/human-rights/b...urkish-prisons

https://www.vocaleurope.eu/children-in-turkeys-prisons/

corruption scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_c...ndal_in_Turkey

there are dozens if not hundreds of refugees in my city, professors, doctors, musicians, now working as food delivery workers. all fleeing one man: erdogan. you tell me why they were fleeing.

there have been tens of thousands of refugees fleeing into greece, a nation turkey is on the brink of war with. illegally. by river, or sea. or smuggler. who are often fake. you tell me why they were fleeing.

ill show you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkis...ement_conflict

[RisingLight]

Erdogan is the only leader in the entire world whom I admire. I cannot comment on these allegations unless I hear the other side of the story.

But do you agree that he is at least better than previous ones who secularized Turkey like Ataturk?

Thanks for your views by the way.

Turkey is still secular,nothing chance,there are prostitutes,gambling,alcohol,night clubs,all things you can find anywhere else.You can get scammed and police wont even help.Plus some statistics show that the number of atheists in turkey is growing,not to mention that their islam is a bit,lets just say a bit different,starting from imams who are told to shave their beard.

Anyway am not gonna make anti erdogan propaganda,i used to like him before but because of many things turkey does he lost my respect.I cant talk about what the brother said but,this link with israel,those 6 soldiers that he demands from Greece,making deal with albania and breaking it because albanians dont close schools of gylen,trying to annex cyprus, raising tensions in greece by transgressing its waters while being allies (nato) etc.Maybe all that talk about islam was to get more votes,after all it was muslims who saved him during the coup.Or maybe even the couo was planned.Allah alem,we cant be sure for anything.

But the way turkey behaves seems very dishonest to me.Anyway im out of subject here,just commented to say that none of these people deserve our admiration. Save it for those who actually do smth for Islam,like good scholars,or for Mahdi,if He comes in our time.

[SintoDinto]

Erdogan is the only leader in the entire world whom I admire. I cannot comment on these allegations unless I hear the other side of the story.

But do you agree that he is at least better than previous ones who secularized Turkey like Ataturk?

Thanks for your views by the way.

oh, and did i mention erdogan's police officers often threaten to rape women for testimony, even stripping them of their clothing? https://theglobepost.com/2017/08/25/...rtured-prison/

[RisingLight]

erdogan is starting to distance people from religion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43981745

more on babies in prisons: https://ahvalnews.com/human-rights/b...urkish-prisons

https://www.vocaleurope.eu/children-in-turkeys-prisons/

corruption scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_c...ndal_in_Turkey

there are dozens if not hundreds of refugees in my city, professors, doctors, musicians, now working as food delivery workers. all fleeing one man: erdogan. you tell me why they were fleeing.

there have been tens of thousands of refugees fleeing into greece, a nation turkey is on the brink of war with. illegally. by river, or sea. or smuggler. who are often fake. you tell me why they were fleeing.

ill show you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkis...ement_conflict

Media works for shaytan,especially bbc and all...as i said above Allahu alem,maybe these are right maybe not,we cant hate him,he might really be a muslim,but we cant also love or support him.Just leave it to Allah,everything will go in its place.

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oh, and did i mention erdogan's police officers often threaten to rape women for testimony, even stripping them of their clothing? https://theglobepost.com/2017/08/25/...rtured-prison/

Probably lies,could be a few cases and they exagerate.Media is paid to make fake news,especially these western ones,dont believe what they say bro

[bint e aisha]

I'm in shock!

Brother RisingLight, do you live in Turkey?
I too do not trust BBC and other news media but what do you mean by "he might really be a Muslim"?

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erdogan is starting to distance people from religion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43981745

more on babies in prisons: https://ahvalnews.com/human-rights/b...urkish-prisons

https://www.vocaleurope.eu/children-in-turkeys-prisons/

corruption scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_c...ndal_in_Turkey

there are dozens if not hundreds of refugees in my city, professors, doctors, musicians, now working as food delivery workers. all fleeing one man: erdogan. you tell me why they were fleeing.

there have been tens of thousands of refugees fleeing into greece, a nation turkey is on the brink of war with. illegally. by river, or sea. or smuggler. who are often fake. you tell me why they were fleeing.

ill show you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkis...ement_conflict

Brother I feel like you have been brain washed by these media outlets and possibly also influenced by Gulen movement. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[SintoDinto]

I'm in shock!

Brother RisingLight, do you live in Turkey?
I too do not trust BBC and other news media but what do you mean by "he might really be a Muslim"?

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Brother I feel like you have been brain washed by these media outlets and possibly also influenced by Gulen movement. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

why are you muslims so "anti west?" you call out for europe to take in syrian migrants while denying saudi arabia should take some (saudi arabia took precisely zero, while lecturing europe on taking more), and the west took in so many "anti west muslims" what did you think was gonna happen? they would grow islamophobic, for you being ungrateful! and supporting dictators who fight against them! if you hate it in the west so bad, why not move to pakistan or malaysia, or make hijrah to indonesia or saudi arabia or uae, etc.? eh? what media outlets am i supposed to believe? RT? the mouthpiece of dictator vladimir putin? Telesur? the mouthpiece of maduro? TRT world? the mouthpiece of a government that is anti journalist? according to politicians such as kemal kilicdaroglu, who ive heard with my own ears? and btw, this is not just media outlets, ive actually spoken to refugees......they HATED IT in turkey. and i have family there. i have relatives who went to jail and were tortured for false charges. AND I KNOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHOSE FAMILY WERE JAILED OR HARASSED. Qur'an 36:10 It is alike to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

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Media works for shaytan,especially bbc and all...as i said above Allahu alem,maybe these are right maybe not,we cant hate him,he might really be a muslim,but we cant also love or support him.Just leave it to Allah,everything will go in its place.

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Probably lies,could be a few cases and they exagerate.Media is paid to make fake news,especially these western ones,dont believe what they say bro

why should i not believe? what proof do you have media lies?

[RisingLight]

why are you muslims so "anti west?" you call out for europe to take in syrian migrants while denying saudi arabia should take some (saudi arabia took precisely zero, while lecturing europe on taking more), and the west took in so many "anti west muslims" what did you think was gonna happen? they would grow islamophobic, for you being ungrateful! and supporting dictators who fight against them! if you hate it in the west so bad, why not move to pakistan or malaysia, or make hijrah to indonesia or saudi arabia or uae, etc.? eh? what media outlets am i supposed to believe? RT? the mouthpiece of dictator vladimir putin? Telesur? the mouthpiece of maduro? TRT world? the mouthpiece of a government that is anti journalist? according to politicians such as kemal kilicdaroglu, who ive heard with my own ears? and btw, this is not just media outlets, ive actually spoken to refugees......they HATED IT in turkey. and i have family there. i have relatives who went to jail and were tortured for false charges. AND I KNOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHOSE FAMILY WERE JAILED OR HARASSED. Qur'an 36:10 It is alike to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

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why should i not believe? what proof do you have media lies?

You are right about some things but these kind of media bbc and cnn etc always portrey muslims very bad.Mass media is a way to control and lie to the population.This is why peoplr think muslims are terorists,all cuz of media. We shouldnt trust anyone blindly.
I like how you touched this topic of emigrants.Eu countries have a lot of problems too and some are in crisis,they arent forced to take refugees in yet they face immigrantion and refugees from everywhere everyday.As i said in another post,uae can build massive artificial islands why cant they build a small city or two for the refugees,what would it cost them? Nothing.
We cant expect from others to help us if we arent helping each other.

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I'm in shock!

Brother RisingLight, do you live in Turkey?
I too do not trust BBC and other news media but what do you mean by "he might really be a Muslim"?

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Brother I feel like you have been brain washed by these media outlets and possibly also influenced by Gulen movement. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Am sorry,i didnt want to cause you this or try to change your view,i just wanted to say that reality is way different then what we see or hear and especially for the politicians everything can be a lie.Everything is diff than what it seems.

No but i live very close to turkey,and there is a lot of turkish influence and inheritance.Thats why am sure.Ive known people who studied in turkey and others who studied in arabia and were completely diff.The imams who studied in turkey shave their beard completely,dont raise hands in salah,dont join ranks in salah,celebrate the bday of the prophet saws etc.Idk,its really diff islam.And am sure about the other things i said.But thats not important.

That idk if he is a muslim that prays or he does this for votes.I have no idea,so I cant hate him,or dislike him,am saying turkey always,i cant blame him.Maybe he is really a muslim and has a good plan thats why hes doing this,or maybe he is pretending to be muslim,or he is a muslim who is deviated,only Allah knows,but if it was one of the past righteous khalipha,im sure they would forgive those 6 people.
Astagfirullah,am taking bad,look just,just admire and care about people who clearly benefit muslims.Others dont deserve your admiration

[bint e aisha]

why are you muslims so "anti west?" you call out for europe to take in syrian migrants while denying saudi arabia should take some (saudi arabia took precisely zero, while lecturing europe on taking more), and the west took in so many "anti west muslims" what did you think was gonna happen? they would grow islamophobic, for you being ungrateful! and supporting dictators who fight against them! if you hate it in the west so bad, why not move to pakistan or malaysia, or make hijrah to indonesia or saudi arabia or uae, etc.? eh? what media outlets am i supposed to believe? RT? the mouthpiece of dictator vladimir putin? Telesur? the mouthpiece of maduro? TRT world? the mouthpiece of a government that is anti journalist? according to politicians such as kemal kilicdaroglu, who ive heard with my own ears? and btw, this is not just media outlets, ive actually spoken to refugees......they HATED IT in turkey. and i have family there. i have relatives who went to jail and were tortured for false charges. AND I KNOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHOSE FAMILY WERE JAILED OR HARASSED. Qur'an 36:10 It is alike to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

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why should i not believe? what proof do you have media lies?

I'm not anti west brother. One of the reasons why we love and support Turkey and Erdogan is because they've taken Syrian refugees. Our own organizations are working with Turkey to provide them basic facilities of life. May Allah reward them and accept their efforts.

Who in the world would expect anything good from Saudi Government? I hate their hypocrite regime and I don't expect they will do anything good for the Ummah.

Are you asking me to migrate to a Muslim country? I already reside in one.

Don't believe any of the media, I'm from Pakistan and I don't trust Pakistani media. I know they only show what they've been ordered to show. Forget about the news channels run by kuffar. They have a propaganda against Islam. Allah ta'ala commands in Surah Hujurat, verse 6:

"O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful."

Lastly if Erdogan tortures people unjustly then that is indeed wrong. But still let's be fair and appreciate the good which is done by Erdogan. He has reversed many anti-Islamic laws in Turkey and he has love for the Ummah. And you know what, the whole Muslim world loves Erdogan. Ulama from the entire world praise him and make dua for him and Turkey. The whole Ummah celebrated the victory after the failed coup. Senior Ulama from our country wrote letters to him and congratulated him. And I understand you hate him because he is a dictator and forces his views but I would rather live under a Muslim dictator than a secular democrat. That's my personal choice.

Brother, you skipped my question about Gulen movement. Have you been influenced by them?

[SintoDinto]

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@bint e aisha what does "influenced by them" mean? are they some sort of terrorist group? lol you listen to alt islamic media too much or pakistani media too much. i refuse to answer such silly questions, and i am done with this discussion. final word: would i really tell you if i was on an OPEN PUBLIC FORUM? when there are aktrolls running around? im taking a break from this forum. ill be back when i feel like it.

[bint e aisha]

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@bint e aisha what does "influenced by them" mean? are they some sort of terrorist group? lol you listen to alt islamic media too much or pakistani media too much. i refuse to answer such silly questions, and i am done with this discussion. final word: would i really tell you if i was on an OPEN PUBLIC FORUM? when there are aktrolls running around? im taking a break from this forum. ill be back when i feel like it.

No problem, respected brother. Why are you getting bitter? I had already said we can agree to disagree in the end. I once learnt a beautiful lesson in life which I would like to share. It was: We should not get hostile with our own people when they disagree with our views on politics. It is ok to have a different opinion.

[RisingLight]

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@bint e aisha what does "influenced by them" mean? are they some sort of terrorist group? lol you listen to alt islamic media too much or pakistani media too much. i refuse to answer such silly questions, and i am done with this discussion. final word: would i really tell you if i was on an OPEN PUBLIC FORUM? when there are aktrolls running around? im taking a break from this forum. ill be back when i feel like it.

Lol...she appreaciates erdogan,you dont appreaciate him,i dont care about him, this is how life is,we cant all think the same,better not argue wih each other for wordly things.No matter how good or bad erdogan is,hes not the leader of muslim ummah,so leave him.There are no aktrolls here running around hahah,come back soon.

[SintoDinto]

No problem, respected brother. Why are you getting bitter? I had already said we can agree to disagree in the end. I once learnt a beautiful lesson in life which I would like to share. It was: We should not get hostile with our own people when they disagree with our views on politics. It is ok to have a different opinion.

my apologies sister, i should not get so angry about politics, thank you for reminding me. prophet muhammad (saws) taught us that the ummah is like the human body, when one of its parts hurt, the entire body feels pain, and all believers are brothers (and sisters). one of the teachings of bediuzzaman said nursi (rh) who died in 1960, and who wrote the risale i nur, was "i seek refuge in allah from the shaytaan and politics" and that political divisions were a source of much enmity among muslims who normally could be close brothers and sisters, as he wrote about two people who hated each other after finding out what party they supported. i appear to have forgotten his advice, and one of the 6 main problems he wrote about as being one of the main problems in the ummah at the time (and still today) is a loss of the need for brotherhood among muslims. the six main problems were 1) despair (in Allah that the condition of Muslims would improve) 2) love of hate 3) death of truth 4) despotism 5) loss of brotherhood 6) selfishness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Nurs%C3%AE

[bint e aisha]

my apologies sister, i should not get so angry about politics, thank you for reminding me. prophet muhammad (saws) taught us that the ummah is like the human body, when one of its parts hurt, the entire body feels pain, and all believers are brothers (and sisters). one of the teachings of bediuzzaman said nursi (rh) who died in 1960, and who wrote the risale i nur, was "i seek refuge in allah from the shaytaan and politics" and that political divisions were a source of much enmity among muslims who normally could be close brothers and sisters, as he wrote about two people who hated each other after finding out what party they supported. i appear to have forgotten his advice, and one of the 6 main problems he wrote about as being one of the main problems in the ummah at the time (and still today) is a loss of the need for brotherhood among muslims. the six main problems were 1) despair (in Allah that the condition of Muslims would improve) 2) love of hate 3) death of truth 4) despotism 5) loss of brotherhood 6) selfishness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Nurs%C3%AE

JazakAllah for this piece of info. I liked this statement: "I seek refuge in Allah from the shaytaan and politics."

[CuriousonTruth]

JazakAllah for this piece of info. I liked this statement: "I seek refuge in Allah from the shaytaan and politics."

The person you speak to has serious illness, best to avoid discussing what triggers him.

Just as a general rule though, a person who spits at the moon, the spit eventually drops on him. I'm not telling this to you personally but a general statement.

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So out of interest, I've found that the members of this forum are quite liberal and pro-west, not at American Muslim standard though but close.

Is my observation correct?

[SintoDinto]

The person you speak to has serious illness, best to avoid discussing what triggers him.

Just as a general rule though, a person who spits at the moon, the spit eventually drops on him. I'm not telling this to you personally but a general statement.

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So out of interest, I've found that the members of this forum are quite liberal and pro-west, not at American Muslim standard though but close.

Is my observation correct?

You must be referring to my borderline personality disorder, anxiety, depression, etc. No, the members of this forum are often anti west, and some are pro isis or pro taleban. I'm pretty much the only "liberal" on here. "Liberal" in the sense that I'm not a salafi and practice sufi practices but generally smewhat conservative in that i try to practice some things my sect neglects. Also, I'm the only patriotic american or anyone who is proud of their western nation. (But ive grown to recognize my that some things my nation does are worth addressing, like the war in yemen).

[CuriousonTruth]

Whether it's Erdogan, Muslim Brotherhood, Taliban Iran or Saudis, the excuses from Muslims are the same. And I don't like the Saudis, but they're still somewhat valid.

"Oh but they don't represent Islam brother. Islamic system is that wonderful imaginary thing we have conjured in our mind, oh but no worry, Mahdi who may not even come in a 1000 years will save us."

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You must be referring to my borderline personality disorder, anxiety, depression, etc. No, the members of this forum are often anti west, and some are pro isis or pro taleban. I'm pretty much the only "liberal" on here. "Liberal" in the sense that I'm not a salafi and practice sufi practices but generally smewhat conservative in that i try to practice some things my sect neglects. Also, I'm the only patriotic american or anyone who is proud of their western nation. (But ive grown to recognize my that some things my nation does are worth addressing, like the war in yemen).

The woman you were talking to seems liberal, and she already denied she doesn't like the West.

This is not to impose, I'm dipping my toes in the water a bit.

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Turkey is still secular,nothing chance,there are prostitutes,gambling,alcohol,night clubs,all things you can find anywhere else.You can get scammed and police wont even help.Plus some statistics show that the number of atheists in turkey is growing,not to mention that their islam is a bit,lets just say a bit different,starting from imams who are told to shave their beard.

Anyway am not gonna make anti erdogan propaganda,i used to like him before but because of many things turkey does he lost my respect.I cant talk about what the brother said but,this link with israel,those 6 soldiers that he demands from Greece,making deal with albania and breaking it because albanians dont close schools of gylen,trying to annex cyprus, raising tensions in greece by transgressing its waters while being allies (nato) etc.Maybe all that talk about islam was to get more votes,after all it was muslims who saved him during the coup.Or maybe even the couo was planned.Allah alem,we cant be sure for anything.

But the way turkey behaves seems very dishonest to me.Anyway im out of subject here,just commented to say that none of these people deserve our admiration. Save it for those who actually do smth for Islam,like good scholars,or for Mahdi,if He comes in our time.

Atheism is increasing because of application of Islam, no matter how menial it is. It will happen in any country. For example, ISIS colourful shariah caused a seismic increase in atheists in the middle east.

When religion is applied in a legislative way, many people dislike it. People don't take kindly to reliious coercion.

On your point about how Turkey follows Islam. Lete tell you the subcontinental Muslims follow Islam exactly same way, minus the part about beard (not sure about that in Turkey).

Of course here in the subcontinent, we also have the Salafis and deobandis, many of these clerics have very low level of education and provide nothing to society at all. They are also pure misogynists and some of them are homosexuals and abuse children in madrassa.

[bint e aisha]

You must be referring to my borderline personality disorder, anxiety, depression, etc. No, the members of this forum are often anti west, and some are pro isis or pro taleban. I'm pretty much the only "liberal" on here. "Liberal" in the sense that I'm not a salafi and practice sufi practices but generally smewhat conservative in that i try to practice some things my sect neglects. Also, I'm the only patriotic american or anyone who is proud of their western nation. (But ive grown to recognize my that some things my nation does are worth addressing, like the war in yemen).

Patriotism goes against the spirit of Islam, brother.

[RisingLight]

Whether it's Erdogan, Muslim Brotherhood, Taliban Iran or Saudis, the excuses from Muslims are the same. And I don't like the Saudis, but they're still somewhat valid.

"Oh but they don't represent Islam brother. Islamic system is that wonderful imaginary thing we have conjured in our mind, oh but no worry, Mahdi who may not even come in a 1000 years will save us."

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The woman you were talking to seems liberal, and she already denied she doesn't like the West.

This is not to impose, I'm dipping my toes in the water a bit.

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Atheism is increasing because of application of Islam, no matter how menial it is. It will happen in any country. For example, ISIS colourful shariah caused a seismic increase in atheists in the middle east.

When religion is applied in a legislative way, many people dislike it. People don't take kindly to reliious coercion.

On your point about how Turkey follows Islam. Lete tell you the subcontinental Muslims follow Islam exactly same way, minus the part about beard (not sure about that in Turkey).

Of course here in the subcontinent, we also have the Salafis and deobandis, many of these clerics have very low level of education and provide nothing to society at all. They are also pure misogynists and some of them are homosexuals and abuse children in madrassa.

I know,and that isnt a surprise because we also know that there will be homosexuals imams or deviated imams that will lead people to jahannam.And that just makes me more sure that Islam is the true religion because the prophet saws knew this thousands of years before.
The prophet saws also said that the ummah will be divided in 72 groups,so the more groups they make the stronger it makes my belief.

Check the signs of the coming of mahdi,or if you want i can give you a video in youtbe about it,its very beautiful.You will then see how no matter how bad the situation of muslims looks it is all going the way it is planned.Its not a defeat,its not a decline of the religion its all just according to plan.

Its not that people here are anti west,islam never had a problem with the west.Its just the media trying to make muslims anti west so they would spread propaganda,hate etc, if america was in the south they say muslims are anti south,or anti east.
We only have a problem with falsehood,opression,degeneracy etc,we dislike what Allah dislikes,wherever it is,even inside muslim lands.
(Why you have a flag of ottoman empire? Am curious)

[CuriousonTruth]

I know,and that isnt a surprise because we also know that there will be homosexuals imams or deviated imams that will lead people to jahannam.And that just makes me more sure that Islam is the true religion because the prophet saws knew this thousands of years before.
The prophet saws also said that the ummah will be divided in 72 groups,so the more groups they make the stronger it makes my belief.

Check the signs of the coming of mahdi,or if you want i can give you a video in youtbe about it,its very beautiful.You will then see how no matter how bad the situation of muslims looks it is all going the way it is planned.Its not a defeat,its not a decline of the religion its all just according to plan.

Its not that people here are anti west,islam never had a problem with the west.Its just the media trying to make muslims anti west so they would spread propaganda,hate etc, if america was in the south they say muslims are anti south,or anti east.
We only have a problem with falsehood,opression,degeneracy etc,we dislike what Allah dislikes,wherever it is,even inside muslim lands.
(Why you have a flag of ottoman empire? Am curious)

Today an imam got arrested for just that. Btw they are not pro-gay publicly, remember they are mostly Deobandi/Ahle hadees types, so they put on quite a religious show and say nice stuff in their Waz.

I know the mentality of what causes muslims to yearn for Mahdi. When muslims ruled Spain, the Spanish also had prayed for the Messiah to come and save them. It comes from desperation and weakness. This isnot to say I disbelieve in Mahdi, but rather I see people try to force prophesies to assure themselves.

Well, I and most religious muslims I know uncompromisingly hate the West. But then again, I don't live in the west. I can understand people here have an attachment to the West, because theyare citizens there. And it's a bit patronizing to suggest it's influenced by propaganda, I have a working brain I can figure things out myself.

I love the Ottoman sultanate/caliphate, that's why.

[RisingLight]

Today an imam got arrested for just that. Btw they are not pro-gay publicly, remember they are mostly Deobandi/Ahle hadees types, so they put on quite a religious show and say nice stuff in their Waz.

I know the mentality of what causes muslims to yearn for Mahdi. When muslims ruled Spain, the Spanish also had prayed for the Messiah to come and save them. It comes from desperation and weakness. This isnot to say I disbelieve in Mahdi, but rather I see people try to force prophesies to assure themselves.

Well, I and most religious muslims I know uncompromisingly hate the West. But then again, I don't live in the west. I can understand people here have an attachment to the West, because theyare citizens there. And it's a bit patronizing to suggest it's influenced by propaganda, I have a working brain I can figure things out myself.

I love the Ottoman sultanate/caliphate, that's why.

How does it come from desperation and weakness when the muslims will be hurt so badly that the night before Isa as(jesus) comes,muslims would be around 1000 people.
It will be Isa who will descend and kill the dajjal and thus bring victory,so if this was the case as you say then we would wait for Isa not for Mahdi.I cant wait for Mahdi to come because i love him,and i want to meet him.

Uncomprimising hate for the west?...sorry but i dont agree at all.Not everything in the west is bad.Actually,the east is worst for muslims than the west.It makes no sense hating whole countries for the actions of some politicians.
So you know a lot of things about islam,belive in coming of mahdi,love the ottoman empire,makes me doubt wether you are a non muslim or muslim

[SintoDinto]

@RisingLight You say the media is wrong just because it makes Muslims look bad. Ask yourself this. Is reporting the truth about Muslims' outrageous mistakes a mistake? Do the people have a right to know what is going on in the world? Do Muslims have the capability of making mistakes? Even outrageous mistakes? Why do Muslim countries have prisoners in their jails?

[CuriousonTruth]

How does it come from desperation and weakness when the muslims will be hurt so badly that the night before Isa as(jesus) comes,muslims would be around 1000 people.
It will be Isa who will descend and kill the dajjal and thus bring victory,so if this was the case as you say then we would wait for Isa not for Mahdi.I cant wait for Mahdi to come because i love him,and i want to meet him.

Uncomprimising hate for the west?...sorry but i dont agree at all.Not everything in the west is bad.Actually,the east is worst for muslims than the west.It makes no sense hating whole countries for the actions of some politicians.
So you know a lot of things about islam,belive in coming of mahdi,love the ottoman empire,makes me doubt wether you are a non muslim or muslim

I'm not interested in your agreement or not. I was informing about how things are. But i have to say this forum is unique, I have been in other forum, YT channels, even facebook groups. In very few places, I've found muslims who claim to be religious and not hate the West.

"So you know a lot of things about islam,belive in coming of mahdi,love the ottoman empire,makes me doubt wether you are a non muslim or muslim"

And? I would hold the same opinion of you if you oppose Ottoman sultanate/caliphate. But I've found it to be a trend among western convert to hate Ottomans. I am from the Indian sub-continent, over here every muslim except Salafis love Ottomans. Here Ottomans enjoy a near immunity status. If you come into islamic facebook groups run by sub-continental muslims (except Salafis) you will be banned for criticizing Ottomans pre-Tanzimat era.

[RisingLight]

@RisingLight You say the media is wrong just because it makes Muslims look bad. Ask yourself this. Is reporting the truth about Muslims' outrageous mistakes a mistake? Do the people have a right to know what is going on in the world? Do Muslims have the capability of making mistakes? Even outrageous mistakes? Why do Muslim countries have prisoners in their jails?

First of all i didnt say that.You said that.Dont twist my words please

Before asking me those ask youself how much shaytan is influencing you that want the whole world to know the mistakes of your brothers.We are advised to conceal the mistakes of each other just as Allah conceals ours.
If other people or society is at risk,then ofc let them know so they can be cautions,but if its not,dont be a messenger of shaytan and spread fitnah.
People have the right to know the truth.Representing islam with terrorists is not the truth.
Yes.The son of prophet Adam saws killed his own brother,then he truly repented.
Because nobody is perfect.

And where do you want to get with this?

I'm not interested in your agreement or not. I was informing about how things are. But i have to say this forum is unique, I have been in other forum, YT channels, even facebook groups. In very few places, I've found muslims who claim to be religious and not hate the West.

"So you know a lot of things about islam,belive in coming of mahdi,love the ottoman empire,makes me doubt wether you are a non muslim or muslim"

And? I would hold the same opinion of you if you oppose Ottoman sultanate/caliphate. But I've found it to be a trend among western convert to hate Ottomans. I am from the Indian sub-continent, over here every muslim except Salafis love Ottomans. Here Ottomans enjoy a near immunity status. If you come into islamic facebook groups run by sub-continental muslims (except Salafis) you will be banned for criticizing Ottomans pre-Tanzimat era.

Maybe i wasnt interested in your opinion or you telling me how things are since the begining,but i went along with it and i thought youd go along with my agreement or not.

I wasnt accusing you,its just am really not sure if you are a muslim or not,because you believe and know some things but dont know some others.I oppose some things ottoman did,now you can hold the same opinion as me

[CuriousonTruth]

Maybe i wasnt interested in your opinion or you telling me how things are since the begining,but i went along with it and i thought youd go along with my agreement or not.

I wasnt accusing you,its just am really not sure if you are a muslim or not,because you believe and know some things but dont know some others.I oppose some things ottoman did,now you can hold the same opinion as me

Makes no sense. I am pretty sure I know a lot you don't. Does that suddenly make you non-muslim?

I look for the present, and I want muslims to work for the present, instead of hoping Mahdi to save them. Many muslims thought the Mongol invasion would be the end of islam, we know how that turned out.

[RisingLight]

Makes no sense. I am pretty sure I know a lot you don't. Does that suddenly make you non-muslim?

I look for the present, and I want muslims to work for the present, instead of hoping Mahdi to save them. Many muslims thought the Mongol invasion would be the end of islam, we know how that turned out.

Then just say you are muslim and save us all this drama

We dont wait for mahdi to save us.I already told you but you understand things the way you want.

How did you know they thought the mongol invasio was the end? Were you there and asked them? Am sure many muslims didnt think the mongol invasion was the end.