PDA

View Full Version : Daniel Hoseiny



Legal_alien
09-28-2019, 02:00 PM
Hi, my name is Daniel. I'm 34 years old by now and I live in the Netherlands. Originally I'm from Russia, but I have multicultural background: My father is from Afghanistan. And when I was a baby I was circumcised (dedicated to Islam) when my parents visited Afghanistan on holidays. Although I was circumcised, I had no Islamic upbringing, my father didn't care about that. So I have never confessed Islam and my circumcision means nothing for me. Instead I deeply believed in Jesus and wanted to be saved by following the Christian religion. Now I am Christian (Easter Orthodox) and thank God for that. Do want to know about me anything else? Ask me then. Most of all I like to talk about religion and personal experience of it.

Here is my photo on internet (acolite (church servant) in white clothes and dark hair on the right side of the bishop with a crown) [Photo Removed]
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Ahmed.
09-28-2019, 05:35 PM
Welcome Daniel! :)

It's good that you're interested in religion, however I must say, only your dad's religion can save you as Jesus surely won't

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth.

4:172 Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah . . .

5:17 In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary.

61:6 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
Reply

Legal_alien
09-29-2019, 12:19 PM
These verses criticize Christian faith, but does Allah promise in the Quran or anywhere else eternal salvation?
Reply

Ahmed.
09-29-2019, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
These verses criticize Christian faith, but does Allah promise in the Quran or anywhere else eternal salvation?
Allah promises eternal damnation for attributing divinity to Jesus (pbuh).

There's also eternal damnation for rejecting Islam as Allah sent this latest religion to all mankind thus abrogating previous dispensations

And yes, Allah promises eternal salvation for those who convert to Islam:

098.001 Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them,

098.002 A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages

098.003 Containing correct scriptures.

098.004 Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them.

098.005 And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion.

098.006 Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.

098.007 (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings.

098.008 Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden underneath which rivers flow, wherein they dwell for ever. Allah hath pleasure in them and they have pleasure in Him. This is (in store) for him who feareth his Lord.

- - - Updated - - -

007.157 Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

007.158 Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all - (the messenger of) Him unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. There is no God save Him. He quickeneth and He giveth death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believeth in Allah and in His Words, and follow him that haply ye may be led aright.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Ahmed.
09-29-2019, 05:35 PM
our prophet Muhammad (Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said,

"By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, any person of this Community, any Jew, or any Christian who hears of me and dies without believing in what I have been sent with will be an inhabitant of hell" (Sahih Muslim)

This hadith clarifies the word of Allah in surat Al 'Imran
"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life" (Qur'an 3:85)
Reply

Ahmed.
09-29-2019, 09:14 PM
https://youtu.be/T-eGRJoY1sc

BEAUTIFUL QURAN RECITATION (POWERFUL VERSES) - YouTube
❤️ Join the Family: https://www.patreon.com/mercifulservant ► Recited by Umair Shamim ► Subscribe Now: https://goo.gl/2tmfa8 ► Become A Patron: https://www.p......

BEAUTIFUL QURAN RECITATION (POWERFUL VERSES) - YouTube
❤️ Join the Family: https://www.patreon.com/mercifulservant ► Recited by Umair Shamim ► Subscribe Now: https://goo.gl/2tmfa8 ► Become A Patron: https://www.p......
Reply

Legal_alien
09-29-2019, 09:26 PM
Okay, thank you. I see that only verse 098.008 says something about eternal reward. The other verses are only criticizing Christianity and Judaism. In my view Muslims affirm their religion by criticizing other religions. It is a negative kind of affirmation. A true religion doesn't need to be built on criticism of other religions.
Reply

Ahmed.
09-29-2019, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Okay, thank you. I see that only verse 098.008 says something about eternal reward. The other verses are only criticizing Christianity and Judaism. In my view Muslims affirm their religion by criticizing other religions. It is a negative kind of affirmation. A true religion doesn't need to be built on criticism of other religions.
Can God criticize if a certain group are doing wrong?. I think you should look at it from the perspective that it may be God saying that in way of pointing out your errors and as a warning

- - - Updated - - -

“Surely, they have disbelieved who say: Allaah is the Messiah [‘Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)’”[al-Maa’idah 5:72]

“Surely, disbelievers are those who said: ‘Allaah is the third of the three (in a Trinity).” But there is no Ilaah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilaah (God —Allaah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them”[al-Maa’idah 5:73]
Reply

Iceee
09-30-2019, 02:48 AM
Salaam / Hello Brother Daniel Hoseiny (Legal Alien)

Welcome back to our forums!

May God help us all in this Dunya. May we all meet in Paradise. Ameen.
Reply

Legal_alien
09-30-2019, 08:34 AM
Originally Posted by Ahmed.
Can God criticize if a certain group are doing wrong?. I think you should look at it from the perspective that it may be God saying that in way of pointing out your errors and as a warning
Okay, if God says it, then it must be surely accepted. But what if someone fasly pretends to be the messenger of Allah? When the spirit appeared to Mohammed, he didn't even introduced himself as angel Jibril. And what surprises me most is that the idea about the prophethood of Mohammed was originally introduced by a Christian (Barak, if I remember it well). So if Christians are heretics, blasphemers and polytheists, why should one believe in this opinion? If we think about it logically.
Reply

Ahmed.
09-30-2019, 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Okay, if God says it, then it must be surely accepted. But what if someone fasly pretends to be the messenger of Allah? When the spirit appeared to Mohammed, he didn't even introduced himself as angel Jibril. And what surprises me most is that the idea about the prophethood of Mohammed was originally introduced by a Christian (Barak, if I remember it well). So if Christians are heretics, blasphemers and polytheists, why should one believe in this opinion? If we think about it logically.
The angel did his duty of putting the first Quran verses in Prophets heart. If he initially said 'I am angel jibril' then do you think Muhammad (saw) would have believed that? So God got jibril (as) to say it in a way it would BE more believable.....

After the initial encounter, the Prophet thought he was either going insane or that an evil spirit had visited him and he thought people would call him crazy now, so he decided to end his life... He climbed further up the mountain to jump off from a high point and as he was climbing, he heard a voice from the sky, he looked up and saw angel jibril in his real form with wings spread out covering the entire horizon, the angel said to him, "I am Jibril and you are the Messenger of Allah".

There were some true Christians around at that time, Christians who either believed Jesus (pbuh) was Allah's servant and Messenger and they acknowledged verses in Bible that the final Messenger was yet to come (maybe the Bible verses saying that weren't distorted at that time) or they believed in the distorted teachings of Jesus' divinity but knew that another Messenger was yet to come.

So based on what you have said, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) can not be falsified on that and the more you look into Islam you'll see there is every proof/sign that Muhammad (saw) is a true Messenger and nothing indicating that he was false
Reply

Legal_alien
09-30-2019, 01:43 PM
Okay, thank you for your honest response, my friend. I am sorry to say it, but I am not persuaded. Why? Because there's a logical mistake in your explanation, what they in the science of logic call 'circulus in probando' (vicious circle in proving). I asked you why we should believe in the opinion of that Christian Barak? And basically your answer was: Although Barak probably was also polytheist, heretic and blasphemer, like all other Christians nowadays, nevertheless he expected a new last prophet, who would be even greater than Jesus. But then the question is: If he probably was in error regarding the fundamental doctrinal teaching about God and Jesus, then why should we believe that regarding the prophethood of Mohammed (or his believe in the future appearance of a new prophet) he was absolutely right? And your answer basically is: Because he knew about the last great prophet. Do you see that this believe in that last prophet is in fact based on nothing? Correct me if I am wrong.
Reply

Ahmed.
09-30-2019, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Okay, thank you for your honest response, my friend. I am sorry to say it, but I am not persuaded. Why? Because there's a logical mistake in your explanation, what they in the science of logic call 'circulus in probando' (vicious circle in proving). I asked you why we should believe in the opinion of that Christian Barak? And basically your answer was: Although Barak probably was also polytheist, heretic and blasphemer, like all other Christians nowadays, nevertheless he expected a new last prophet, who would be even greater than Jesus. But then the question is: If he probably was in error regarding the fundamental doctrinal teaching about God and Jesus, then why should we believe that regarding the prophethood of Mohammed (or his believe in the future appearance of a new prophet) he was absolutely right? And your answer basically is: Because he knew about the last great prophet. Do you see that this believe in that last prophet is in fact based on nothing? Correct me if I am wrong.
I also said that there were proper Christians around during then that believed in Jesus (pbuh) as Allah's Messenger and thus were monothiests. Even to this day, in the gospel of barnabas the Prophet Muhammad is mentioned by name.

Allah says in Quran he does not punish until the divine message reaches a person, so if we assume this Barak was a polythiest trinitarian and if he knew another Prophet was coming and accepted that new Prophet then he'd rectify his mistakes too according to the new Prophets teachings, so Christians who accept the new Prophet and rectify their mistakes are not considered the blasphemer etc etc as they were just mistaken due to being duped by their priests. Its those who reject the new Prophet that are the blasphemers as they have no excuse to continue what God clarifies in new revelation as blasphemy

- - - Updated - - -

https://youtu.be/-hnNcgXauYw

Jesus Announces Arrival of Muhammad by Khalid Yasin (Q&A) - YouTube
Khalid Yasin answers the question regarding Jesus announcing the arrival of the Prophet Muhammad (saws). Produced By One Islam Productions www.1islam.net...

- - - Updated - - -

And although there's a report that a Christian monk helped confirm that indeed it was Jibril (as) that came to Muhammad (saw), the absolute confirmation was clinched by the Prophets wife Khadija.

Jibril sometimes would appear to Muhammad (saw) in his home and only Muhammad (saw) could see him. So Khadija (ra) told him, "next time he comes tell me'. So when Jibril (as) appeared to Muhammad (saw), he told Khadija, and khadija sat on Muhammad's (saw) lap and uncovered her head and asked Muhammad (saw) if the 'thing' was still there in the room, the Prophet (saw) replied 'no he's left', and Khadija told him then it's not a devil and has to be an angel because an angel would not remain in a room where husband and wife start to get intimate.

She reassured him with other sound advice too, saying, he was a good man, never told lies, gave charity to poor etc etc and Allah wouldn't humiliate him with a curse of devil visits....

So it was his wife that played the 99.9 percent part in confirming his Prophethood.
Reply

Legal_alien
09-30-2019, 05:33 PM
1. Again it's the same here: you are saying that there were proper and improper Christians. But why do you think they were proper Christians? You reply: Because they knew (or believed) in the new last prophet and his teaching. But why do you affirm that there must be another prophet greater than Jesus? You reply: Because those proper Christians believed so. Do you see there no any proof or evidence whatsoever in this argumentation. It's the same as I would say to you: I talk every day with God. You would reply: Don't lie! And then I would say: How can l lie, a person who talks every day with God?! So there's nothing to talk about with such a person.
2. It was a Christian Warqah ibn Nawfal (not Barak, excuse me for mistake) who first assured Khadija that her husband was a prophet. And Khadija assured Mohammed in his alleged prophethood.
3. In my view there was indeed a purpose in the emergence of Islam. It was for punishment of Christians who lived a life unworthy of their true God-given faith.
Reply

HabibUrrehman
09-30-2019, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Hi, my name is Daniel. I'm 34 years old by now and I live in the Netherlands. Originally I'm from Russia, but I have multicultural background: My father is from Afghanistan. And when I was a baby I was circumcised (dedicated to Islam) when my parents visited Afghanistan on holidays. Although I was circumcised, I had no Islamic upbringing, my father didn't care about that. So I have never confessed Islam and my circumcision means nothing for me. Instead I deeply believed in Jesus and wanted to be saved by following the Christian religion. Now I am Christian (Easter Orthodox) and thank God for that. Do want to know about me anything else? Ask me then. Most of all I like to talk about religion and personal experience of it.

Here is my photo on internet (acolite (church servant) in white clothes and dark hair on the right side of the bishop with a crown) [Photo Removed]
Hi Daniel,

Welcome to the forum :welcome:
Can you share what you believe in?
Why did you left Islam?
What is the proof that your belief system is the truth?

Regarding circumcision, God has commanded to have circumcision in all Abrahamic religions whether Jewism, Christianity or Islam. So you are good. You can look up some scientific benefits if male circumcision and thank God that you are circumcised :)
Reply

Legal_alien
09-30-2019, 10:47 PM
Thanks, brother. So to answer your questions:
1. I believe in Jesus as the promised Messiah, Savior, Redeemer, the Son of God and in his messege, which is recorded in the Gospels. If you have more specific questions about my beliefs, then ask and I will reply.
2. As I said I never practiced Islam personally, although as a child I was inclined to believe in God. But Islam from my point of view doesn't have anything beautiful or positive to attract the heart of a person from within. I'm sorry to say it.
3. I have 5 proofs on behalf of my religion.
I. Non-triviality. That is to say that the doctrine of my religion is certainly not the product of human reasoning, because in biblical revelation there are facts which are simply unexplainable. For example the creation of the universe by God out of nothing, the revelation of Holy Trinity, the person of Jesus... And the concept of the absolute God itself is also unexplainable for human logic. Nonetheless these real facts that are revealed and cannot be denied.
II. The biblical prophesies that are fulfilling. Such prophesies can only be given by a being who is not confined within time, but outside of it; that being is Creator of time, God. There are many examples. There messianic prophesies fulfilled in the life of Jesus Christ, but there are also prophesies about political events, such invasion of Persia by Alexander the Great 'the first Greek king', as prophet Daniel described him long before it happened. And there are also prophesies about the return of the Jews to the Holy Land (Palestine), which happened in the 20th century.
III. The high moral standard of the commandments of Jesus. For example the commandments 'love your enemies' and 'don't commit adultery by looking at a woman' are not stupid. If performed correctly, they don't make a man weak, on the contrary he becames stronger by restraining himself from passions such as anger and lust.
IV. The wonders of Jesus. He said himself that no one could do them; for example the bringing of dead person back to life, forgiving sins and healing. I don't know any person in the history who equaled Jesus in it.
V. The tremendous impact of Gospel's messege on human lives. Millions of people accepted the Gospel (Good News) of Jesus freely, not by external pressure and fear. And it transformed their lives. The first 3 centuries of Christendom were famous for their martyrs, who endured the most painful tortures from the pagan Romans who forced them to deny Christ and worship the emperor, but those brave Christians remained faithful to God until the death. Why? Because they wholly loved Christ and freely accepted the sufferings. There are also other examples.

Note that I affirm the truthfulness of my religion not by criticizing Islam or whatever, but positively. As I said my religion doesn't need enemies to assert itself.
Reply

Ahmed.
10-01-2019, 07:50 AM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
1. Again it's the same here: you are saying that there were proper and improper Christians. But why do you think they were proper Christians? You reply: Because they knew (or believed) in the new last prophet and his teaching. But why do you affirm that there must be another prophet greater than Jesus? You reply: Because those proper Christians believed so. Do you see there no any proof or evidence whatsoever in this argumentation. It's the same as I would say to you: I talk every day with God. You would reply: Don't lie! And then I would say: How can l lie, a person who talks every day with God?! So there's nothing to talk about with such a person.
2. It was a Christian Warqah ibn Nawfal (not Barak, excuse me for mistake) who first assured Khadija that her husband was a prophet. And Khadija assured Mohammed in his alleged prophethood.
3. In my view there was indeed a purpose in the emergence of Islam. It was for punishment of Christians who lived a life unworthy of their true God-given faith.
Lol it was you who suggested a Christian confirmed Islam. Islam and Prophet Muhammad's (saw) ProphetHood was confirmed by Allah. If waraqah nawfals story is true ( not sure how sahih that hadith is) then that's just one of the ways Allah put a bit of reassurance in Khadija and Muhammad (saw). Waraqah will in no way be the 'big proof' of Islam like your suggesting. It was just a simple confirmation from a guy who knew about Jibril (as) as Jibril (as) description would have been in Christianity.

Don't you know about the miraculous Quran we have and the miracles of Prophet Muhammad (saw) that confirms his Prophethood for us? And you think a obscure story of a Christian monk affirming Muhammad's Prophethood is our decicive proof? :Emoji48: you haven't honoured your dad by at least finding out some basics about his religion my friend
Reply

Ahmed.
10-01-2019, 09:51 AM
And I think your point about 'Muslims/Islam criticizing other religions' is very odd, as I'm sure anyone would agree that there's nothing out of place for God to point out the desbelievers' errors, and calling them towards rectification. Infact common sense tells us that these sort of messages is what guidance/revelation from God should be all about! :)
Reply

Legal_alien
10-01-2019, 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by Ahmed.
And I think your point about 'Muslims/Islam criticizing other religions' is very odd, as I'm sure anyone would agree that there's nothing out of place for God to point out the desbelievers' errors, and calling them towards rectification. Infact common sense tells us that these sort of messages is what guidance/revelation from God should be all about! :)
The point is here that if I (for example) most of the time am telling you how terribly wrong you are, it doesn't automatically mean that I am completely right (even in what I accuse you of).

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Ahmed.
:Emoji48: you haven't honoured your dad by at least finding out some basics about his religion my friend
Okay, may that's why he always blamed himself every time he got angry with me "barom padre too saga, hara nolat" (your father is a dog, donkey). When I asked why do you blame yourself, he replied: you don't understand. :omg:
Reply

Ahmed.
10-01-2019, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
The point is here that if I (for example) most of the time am telling you how terribly wrong you are, it doesn't automatically mean that I am completely right (even in what I accuse you of).

- - - Updated - - -


Okay, may that's why he always blamed himself every time he got angry with me "barom padre too saga, hara nolat" (your father is a dog, donkey). When I asked why do you blame yourself, he replied: you don't understand. :omg:
I critisized with God's words to try and save you my friend. You started off the criticism by saying 'thank God I'm a Christian and didn't become a Muslim'. This implies that Islam is false, it also dismayed me to see how deeply and dangerously you are entrenched in your own faith, so my posting of God's criticism was to show you how dangerous those beliefs of yours are. I have your best interest at heart. I'm trying to save you my friend :)

However I admit it may not have been a prudent start, but I blame that on me being homebound for past week thus I'm not my usual self...
Reply

Legal_alien
10-01-2019, 01:40 PM
There's nothing to worry about, Ahmed. Let's look at it as scientific search for truth. And if you don't have any constructive argument to say, don't worry. There's nothing shameful about it. I never participate in a debate in order to save my reputation, because my ego is nothing for me. For me every dialogue must constructive, beneficial for both sides.

So if you want you can answer for yourself how credible your religion is. If all those verses are from God, then let's examine whether the messege of Mohammed is really from God. What kind of evidence can you present? You told me that the testimony of Warqa ibn Nawfal is not so important. Okay, let's forget about him then. Furthermore you told me about the experiments of Khadija with the visiting ghost. If this is a sure proof that that ghost was angel Gabriel, then I would ask: Is Khadija's experience or knowledge of the ghosts so profound that she could always know what to do in order to find out their true identity? Why she believed that the ghost left them alone when she had intimate contact with Mohammed? May be he was hiding while observing them. Khadija couldn't know it for sure. And why she was so convinced that a real angel would leave them completely when they make love with each other? Angel doesn't have carnal passions, so he has nothing to be ashamed of. No need to identify him with a human.
Another proof that you mentioned are the wonders of Allah done through Mohammed. So let's examine them. Show me those passages and their sources, if you want.

Take care. May God protect you from all evil.
Reply

HabibUrrehman
10-01-2019, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Thanks, brother. So to answer your questions:
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
1. I believe in Jesus as the promised Messiah, Savior, Redeemer, the Son of God and in his message, which is recorded in the Gospels. If you have more specific questions about my beliefs, then ask and I will reply.


Muslim also believe that Jesus PBUH is the Messiah and Prophet of Allah. We don't believe that God has any son because that against the very nature of God and defies very basic believes about God. For example, Christian's believe that God is three person but one being. They have to say this to say they are not polytheists. Now this begs some common sense questions. If God has son, who came first, God or son? Whoever came first means that on of the person in God head is not eternal. That mean God as a whole is not eternal and that is also against fundamental belief about God. If God is not eternal then who was there before God?

Second: God having son means that at some point God changed its nature. God was alone to start with but then had son, so which state was more perfect, before God had son or after? You see this concept raise questions that God is not perfect and also changes it nature.

Third:God by definition should not be one who is needy. Having a son means that God has physical need like us to have intercourse and then have son (that's really what begotten son means if you don't know). God was God's wife? His own creation - Mary? Should you consider adding Mary in the Godhead as well after all she is mother of your god Jesus?

Conclusion is that this concept makes Christianity a polytheistic religion, not a monotheist one.

Finally, Let me also ask do you think Gospels are 100% true? Can you provide a chain of narration for your Gospels? If you don't know what chain of narration mean then look up hadith and you will see even weak hadiths have much better chain of narrations than Gospels. In any court you present your proof and if that proof is not strong enough then the claim is rejected and so is the case with Gospels. Your own Christian scholars say that there are more than 60,000 version of Gospels written is Greek and no two versions are same. Jesus's own language was Aramaic and there is no Gospel in Aramaic language, would you believe that? No language in the world translates names but yet Christians have even translated the names to create a bigger mess, for example Jesus is not even the real name of your son of God. Quran tell us that his name is Esa.


Originally Posted by Legal_alien
As I said I never practiced Islam personally, although as a child I was inclined to believe in God. But Islam from my point of view doesn't have anything beautiful or positive to attract the heart of a person from within. I'm sorry to say it.

That's fine, it does not hurt my feelings at all. I don't loose anything if you believe in a polytheistic God. You are not following the first commandment which is to worship only one God and don't associate partners with Him. If Trinity was so important of a concept then the first commandment should have been to believe in Trinity not in one God.
Muslims in that sense believe and follow Jesus (Esa) PBUH as we believe in all prophets and we know all prophets gave the same messages which is to worship one and only one God. No prophet ever preached to worship a triune God, not even Jesus PBUH.
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
I have 5 proofs on behalf of my religion.


Do you really know what proof means? Proof does not mean to first accept a belief, it mean first provide a logical proof so one can realize that whatever you are claiming is truth. All the point you have given are based on acceptance first. God has sent down miracles for all generation so that people would know that these miracles are only possible by a higher power. Such as God gave Jesus (Esa) PBUH power to cure the sick, God gave Moses the power to split open the ocean etc. I know that these miracles are mentioned in Bible and in Quran but did you see these miracles? We have not seen those and it will be unfair for God to expect us to believe when people in previous generation saw these miracles but we did not get to see them.

But we know God is Just and He has given us a living miracle in the shape of Quran. Quran is the book which is memorized by million in every generation and is preserved through memorization as well as in writing. If we agree to burn all Holy Books today then I can assure you that Muslims can write down Quran back from memory in the matter of few hours. This can't be claim for any other book including Bible which has more than 60,000 version of so called original Bible.

Preserving Quran is not the only Miracle. Quran has many scientific facts which are stated over 1400 years and are only established by modern science very recently. How can a person living in deserts of Arabia and being illiterate can write a book 1400 years ago and mention so many scientific facts in it without any modern scientific tools? The only answer is that this man living is deserts of Arabia was receiving Divine message from your and my Lord, Allah SWT. This is what one calls proof, not a blind acceptance.

Below is a link of one of my thread about miracles of Quran, compare that to you Bible. Bible on the other hand, conflicts with science on so many grounds. You will find error on the very first page. God created day and night before creating Sun and Moon per Bible and we know that can't be right.

https://www.islamicboard.com/compara...-new-post.html

Now let me comment briefly on your so calls proof one by one:
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Non-triviality. That is to say that the doctrine of my religion is certainly not the product of human reasoning, because in biblical revelation there are facts which are simply unexplainable. For example the creation of the universe by God out of nothing, the revelation of Holy Trinity, the person of Jesus... And the concept of the absolute God itself is also unexplainable for human logic. Nonetheless these real facts that are revealed and cannot be denied.


I agree that God creates from nothing but this is claimed by so many religions. What is special about Christianity and again it is matter of acceptance, not a logical proof for a non-Christian.

Trinity is actually what makes Christianity non logical. It does not make sense to anyone, not even to Christians. I am glad that you accepted that fact yourself. You also contradicted yourself by first talking about trinity and then talking about absolute one God.

The concept of God should be very simple to believe. When one say one God then it should mean one God. Do you think people before Jesus (Esa) PBUH used to worship a triune God? This is the very reason why even Jews rejected Christianity because this concept of more of a polytheistic concept was derived from Roman god to attract polytheists to Christianity.

Second, in the Bible Jesus never claimed to be God and yet you think he was God. No proof from your own text.
Jesus (Esa) PBUH is described to as praying in Bible. If he was God then who was he praying to?
Jesus (Esa) PBUH was not even knowledgeable. He did not know when figs grow on a fig tree, he did not know that he was going to be crucified.

Originally Posted by Legal_alien
The biblical prophesies that are fulfilling. Such prophesies can only be given by a being who is not confined within time, but outside of it; that being is Creator of time, God. There are many examples. There messianic prophesies fulfilled in the life of Jesus Christ, but there are also prophesies about political events, such invasion of Persia by Alexander the Great 'the first Greek king', as prophet Daniel described him long before it happened. And there are also prophesies about the return of the Jews to the Holy Land (Palestine), which happened in the 20th century.


Let's talk about one of the prophecy which is Messiah will be son of David. Prove to me from your Bible that Jesus (Esa) PBUH was son of David? If you can prove that, you know what it will mean? Jesus is not son of God and that's what Muslims have been saying all along. If you can't your main prophecy is not fulfilled.

Originally Posted by Legal_alien
The high moral standard of the commandments of Jesus. For example the commandments 'love your enemies' and 'don't commit adultery by looking at a woman' are not stupid. If performed correctly, they don't make a man weak, on the contrary he becomes stronger by restraining himself from passions such as anger and lust.


Muslims believe that all prophets have a good moral character. It is not just limited to Jesus (ESA) PBUH.
Second I am sorry to say that if though I don't believe in it but your own Bible have accused my beloved prophet Esa PBUH with bad moral character.
The Bible has numerous instances where Jesus addresses strangers, his disciples and even God in a very harsh manner. Here, Jesus is alleged to have called a non-Jewish woman a ‘dog’, a term of great insult during his time:

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon possessed and suffering terribly.” Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” [Matthew 15:22-26]


What makes this incident even worse is that the woman was coming to Jesus out of desperation for help, and even though she addressed him with titles of great respect (“Lord”, “Son of David”), she was greeted with abuse in return. I find that such harshness isn’t just limited to strangers, as Jesus is alleged to have treated his disciples in a similar fashion. Here, Jesus allegedly calls Peter ‘Satan’:

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” [Matthew 16:23]

Even his blessed mother Mary is spoken about in a disrespectful manner:
Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who my brothers are?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. [Matthew 12:47-49]

Perhaps worst of all, Jesus allegedly goes so far as to blaspheme when speaking to God:
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (Which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”) [Matthew 27:46]


The portrayal of Jesus in the Qur’an is very different. Throughout the Qur’an, his manner of speaking, whether to his own mother, strangers or God, is always respectful:

[Jesus] said, “Indeed, I am the servant of God. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and charity as long as I remain alive. And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed. [19:30-32]

And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear God and obey me. [43:63]

And [beware the Day] when God will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides God?’” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. [5:116-117]

Compare how Quran describes my beloved prophet Esa PBUH and how Bible describes it, it is not hard to see Quran has given much more respect to prophet compared to Bible. About other prophets, Bible have made their moral character worse than any normal human being. Do you think God will select someone to deliver His message who is an adultery and drunk all the time? Common sense is really not that common or else many will be Muslims because Islam is the only religion which makes sense.

Originally Posted by Legal_alien
The wonders of Jesus. He said himself that no one could do them; for example the bringing of dead person back to life, forgiving sins and healing. I don't know any person in the history who equaled Jesus in it.


Quran mentioned these and many other miracles including Jesus (Esa) PBUH speaking when he was a baby to defend his mother. What we believe that these miracles were given by God just like near end days false Messiah will be given many miracles to test people's faith. Muslims don't deny miracles of Jesus PBUH, we only say that these were given by God and having miracles does not make anyone God. Christian on the other hand, think that Jesus performed these miracles because he was God. This rationally, per your bible he could not even save himself from crucifixion then how can he be god? God can't be born and god can't die. Keep it simple and that may help you understand some basic concepts.

[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
The tremendous impact of Gospel's messege on human lives. Millions of people accepted the Gospel (Good News) of Jesus freely, not by external pressure and fear. And it transformed their lives. The first 3 centuries of Christendom were famous for their martyrs, who endured the most painful tortures from the pagan Romans who forced them to deny Christ and worship the emperor, but those brave Christians remained faithful to God until the death. Why? Because they wholly loved Christ and freely accepted the sufferings. There are also other examples.


Only if you know that many of those who were martyred believed in Jesus as prophet and messiah. Those who were killed true Christians like the false apostle Paul are the one who corrupted the message of Christianity and made it a polytheistic religion because that was the reason for persecution of those who believed in Jesus as prophet of God.

Islam came 600 years after Christianity and is the fasted growing religion. Many people who call them Christians are Christians by name, they don't read Bible and don't even believe in the stories mentioned in Bible. Many are leaving Christianity because trinity does not make sense to them and they become atheists. Yet there are those who accept Islam after reading all the religions in the world. Churches are empty and are being bought by Muslims. Truth will finally prevail and whatever differences we have will be settled by Allah on the day of judgement but it will be too late for many.

[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Note that I affirm the truthfulness of my religion not by criticizing Islam or whatever, but positively. As I said my religion doesn't need enemies to assert itself.


Even Bible says very harsh words for all false religions and for those who disobey commandments of God. Should I quote verses from Bible to make point? I don't think I need it as you know it. If you don't, let me know and I will be happy to share how Bible condemns those who spread corruption in the land and those who worship false God.
Quran does not tell us to hate Christians and Jews. It does tell stories about them and how they disobeyed Allah. These are lesson for Muslims to make sure they don't follow the foot steps of those who lost their path and earned Allah's anger. Quran also tell that there are many good people in Christianity and Judaism and it is duty of Muslims to convey the message of Islam to them. Allah will guide those who are sincere and truly seeking the truth and those who are arrogant will be misguided and can never see the light to find the right path.

In the end, I apologize for anything offensive which I may have written and that may have hurt your feelings. That certainly is not my intention. May peace be upon you and your family! Ameen!
Reply

HabibUrrehman
10-01-2019, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed.
I also said that there were proper Christians around during then that believed in Jesus (pbuh) as Allah's Messenger and thus were monothiests. Even to this day, in the gospel of barnabas the Prophet Muhammad is mentioned by name.

Allah says in Quran he does not punish until the divine message reaches a person, so if we assume this Barak was a polythiest trinitarian and if he knew another Prophet was coming and accepted that new Prophet then he'd rectify his mistakes too according to the new Prophets teachings, so Christians who accept the new Prophet and rectify their mistakes are not considered the blasphemer etc etc as they were just mistaken due to being duped by their priests. Its those who reject the new Prophet that are the blasphemers as they have no excuse to continue what God clarifies in new revelation as blasphemy

- - - Updated - - -

https://youtu.be/-hnNcgXauYw

Jesus Announces Arrival of Muhammad by Khalid Yasin (Q&A) - YouTube
Khalid Yasin answers the question regarding Jesus announcing the arrival of the Prophet Muhammad (saws). Produced By One Islam Productions www.1islam.net...

- - - Updated - - -

And although there's a report that a Christian monk helped confirm that indeed it was Jibril (as) that came to Muhammad (saw), the absolute confirmation was clinched by the Prophets wife Khadija.

Jibril sometimes would appear to Muhammad (saw) in his home and only Muhammad (saw) could see him. So Khadija (ra) told him, "next time he comes tell me'. So when Jibril (as) appeared to Muhammad (saw), he told Khadija, and khadija sat on Muhammad's (saw) lap and uncovered her head and asked Muhammad (saw) if the 'thing' was still there in the room, the Prophet (saw) replied 'no he's left', and Khadija told him then it's not a devil and has to be an angel because an angel would not remain in a room where husband and wife start to get intimate.

She reassured him with other sound advice too, saying, he was a good man, never told lies, gave charity to poor etc etc and Allah wouldn't humiliate him with a curse of devil visits....

So it was his wife that played the 99.9 percent part in confirming his Prophethood.
Just wanted to make few corrections based on what I know.

First thing is about Gospel of Barnabas. I have seen that my brother @Ahmed has mentioned this in this post. Actually, this is a sad joke on many Muslims. Some have been tricked into believing this has something to do with the New Testament and it is more or less the "Lost Gospel" that will solve all the problems related to the difference between Christianity of today and Islam. But that is all nonsense, because the so-called "Gospel of Barnabas" is fake. The translators of this old manuscript were not convinced of any authenticity within it.

The "Gospel of Barnabas" is taken from a manuscript in the Italian language, although it is said it also had been written in Spanish, both of these would be about 500 years old. The actual surviving manuscript is from the 1700's. Although the synoptic gospels are quite similar in many aspects, scholars have always insisted on Mark being the oldest, and most likely more authentic, and even then Mark is said to have been taken from another, much older document referred to only as "Q". The gospel of St. John is nothing like the others and is held to be in a class by itself by scholars. So, this begs the question; "How did a document all of a sudden surface 1500 years later, in Spanish (just after the time of the Catholic conquest of Muslim Spain in January of 1492) that brings together a melding together of all the gospels and the Quran and offers the same Islamic interpretation of Christian origins, all at the same time?"

Some scholars and academics from both Christians and Muslims have considered this gospel to be late and pseud epigraphical - But, others say it may contain remnants of earlier apocryphal (hidden from the public) work that was likely edited to conform to Islamic teachings, maybe from Gnostic or Ebionite or perhaps Diatessaronic sources. Some Muslim scholars have thought it to be a surviving version of a hidden apostolic original. Some Muslim academics have referred to it in support of their view of Jesus.
There are other works, not related but with similar names and are associated with apocryphal writings. These include the surviving Epistle of Baranabas and Acts of Barabas and even an earlier (unrelated) "Gospel" of Barnabas. Although there are many "theories" being offered about this document, I seriously doubt it has the necessary credentials to be considered anything more than a very old manuscript that was translated by two people, Lon and Laura Ragg, along with their comments about 100 years ago.
For me, it is not worth the headache to deal with a translation of an old document that no longer exists. This would be similar to trying to "find" an original of the Bible. My mind asks, "Why would Muslims waste their time with this nonsense, when they have the Quran and it is still in the original language, no changes and without human corruption?"

So my advice is the for future please stay away from mentioning Gospel of Baranbas to prove Islamic point of view.

Waraqa Bin Nawfal:

@Ahmed made a good point but failed to utilize it. The Hadith related to Waraqa Bin Nawfal are mentioned in Sahih Bukhari. Refer to Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, hadith #3; Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Hadith # 605 and Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith # 111.

Now the point I want to make is that what were Christians and Jews doing in Medina and Mekkah? It was prophesized that a final prophet will come. The signs and place of birth of this prophet was mentioned in Torah and Injil. This is further confirmed if you read story of Salman Bin Farsi. Warqa bin Nawfal confirmed that Prophet Muhammad PBUH is receiving a Divine message from God.

Do we have any prophecies in current Bible? The oldest copy of Bible which we have found is the dead sea of scrolls. It is even before the time of Jesus PBUH. Book of Isiah in Old Testament and in dead sea scrolls is almost same. So I will focus on Isiah to prove that Prophet Muhammad PBUH is not only mentioned in Bible but it is even mentioned that Prophet Muhammad PBUH will settle down in Medina. More details about this will be in my post later some time today or tomorrow. Mean while whosoever is interested can look into Isiah 42.
Reply

HabibUrrehman
10-02-2019, 04:56 PM
I am waiting for brother @Legal_alien to respond to my previous posts and explain to us his interpretation of Isaiah 42 before I post anything more on this thread.
Reply

Ahmed.
10-02-2019, 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
There's nothing to worry about, Ahmed. Let's look at it as scientific search for truth. And if you don't have any constructive argument to say, don't worry. There's nothing shameful about it. I never participate in a debate in order to save my reputation, because my ego is nothing for me. For me every dialogue must constructive, beneficial for both sides.

So if you want you can answer for yourself how credible your religion is. If all those verses are from God, then let's examine whether the messege of Mohammed is really from God. What kind of evidence can you present? You told me that the testimony of Warqa ibn Nawfal is not so important. Okay, let's forget about him then. Furthermore you told me about the experiments of Khadija with the visiting ghost. If this is a sure proof that that ghost was angel Gabriel, then I would ask: Is Khadija's experience or knowledge of the ghosts so profound that she could always know what to do in order to find out their true identity? Why she believed that the ghost left them alone when she had intimate contact with Mohammed? May be he was hiding while observing them. Khadija couldn't know it for sure. And why she was so convinced that a real angel would leave them completely when they make love with each other? Angel doesn't have carnal passions, so he has nothing to be ashamed of. No need to identify him with a human.
Another proof that you mentioned are the wonders of Allah done through Mohammed. So let's examine them. Show me those passages and their sources, if you want.

Take care. May God protect you from all evil.
Khadijas reassurances weren't that important either: as I mentioned, the real proof of Muhammad's (saw) Prophethood is the miraculous Quran and his other miracles, as well as his impeccable character. The reassurances from waraqah bin nawafil and khadija (ra) was just a way Allah steadied Muhamads (saw) mind from the natural fear and confusion he was going through and made him become cool, calm and rational again, and see the 'visitor' for the angel that he was.

Here are some links with Qur'an miracles and Prophet Muhammad's miracles:

https://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1.htm

https://www.whyislam.org/muhammad/mi...phet-muhammad/
Reply

Mandy
10-03-2019, 02:43 PM
Welcome to the site daniel. I hope your stay with us allow you to learn a bit more about your islamic roots.
Please try to keep an open mind and remain open to hearing the message of Allah.
Reply

Legal_alien
10-04-2019, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
I am waiting for brother @Legal_alien to respond to my previous posts and explain to us his interpretation of Isaiah 42 before I post anything more on this thread.
Now, I don't have time to answer all of your statements. But here are just few things that came up to my mind. My aim is here to explain to you with simple words why I am not a Muslim.
1. Holy Trinity. I understand that it's impossible to prove to you the existence of the Holy Trinity, so it is not my aim. But for me the idea about eternal Triune God is more acceptable, than a Monad (Allah as Mohammed describes him) dwelling eternally in a complete loneliness. Bible says that God is love. And it means not only that he loves his creation, but that he is and was love even before he created the universe. This is only possible if God is Trinity, whereby the three Persons of one God love each other, abide in each other, act always together and therefore are One, one absolute God, but not a Monad. This concept rejoices my heart, because is this way we can truly say that love is eternal, because God is love.
2. The proofs. I was converted to Christianity not because I heard some kind of rational proofs of it. In my heart I was just convinced that Jesus is real. I didn't even know exactly who he was. But Jesus clearly sets his miracles and the prophecies about him as a proof. Perhaps the biggest miracle upon which the whole Christendom stands is his most glorious resurrection from the dead on the third day after his crucifiction. It was witnessed by circa 500 people (Corinthians15: 1-8). No Christianity would exist if there was no resurrection. Jesus' disciples wouldn't even try to spread the Good News, if their teacher had failed to prove his Divine authority and power.
But it surprises me that you call the preservation of Quran a miracle. Even if it 100% preserved unchanged, there is nothing supernatural in the preservation of a book. It is memorized, but so is the Tora by the Jews, Tao te ching by the daoists, sutras by Buddhists and Psalms by some Christian monks. And if it is really true what you said about scientific facts stated in the Quran, then it only means that the message of Quran was given by some supernatural being, but not necessarily God. We know about fallen spirits who used to be angels of God in the beginning, but who revolted against God after the manner of the angel Lucifer, who is now called Satan. They are purely evil now, but they are not stupid and there is no reason to underestimate their intelligence. When people thought that the earth is flat, they always knew it is a globe. However this scientific information is not important in religion. You also said "God created day and night before creating Sun and Moon per Bible and we know that can't be right", but how can you know it? The evolution is and will always remain a theory. You can't go to the past and examine how it really was. So evolution is not a proven fact.
3. If that whereof you accused Christianity is true and if I really believe so as you described it, then I would be blasphemer indeed, not worthy to be called Christian. But there is no need to explain to you the Christian faith, the concept of Holy Trinity, God-human nature of Jesus Christ, the verses from the Gospel that you referred to... because you will still not accept other explanations except those that you have been taught in Islam. For example I know a story about Nabeel Qureshi, who was a friend of David Wood. When they were students they debated with each other during 4 years, but none of them could prove anything to each other. Finally Nabeel had a dream which made a deep impression on him and only then he understood that the truth is in Christianity. Now he and his friend David Wood publicly debate with Muslims. And a friend of my who has a Turkish Islamic background also converted to Christianity because of some hunch he received from God. So only God can prove to you the truthfulness of Christianity if his Grace finds in your heart a little bit open to Him.

Peace be with you, brother Habibi.
Reply

Legal_alien
10-04-2019, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed.
Khadijas reassurances weren't that important either: as I mentioned, the real proof of Muhammad's (saw) Prophethood is the miraculous Quran and his other miracles, as well as his impeccable character. The reassurances from waraqah bin nawafil and khadija (ra) was just a way Allah steadied Muhamads (saw) mind from the natural fear and confusion he was going through and made him become cool, calm and rational again, and see the 'visitor' for the angel that he was.

Here are some links with Qur'an miracles and Prophet Muhammad's miracles:

https://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1.htm

https://www.whyislam.org/muhammad/mi...phet-muhammad/
Okay, thank you for the links. I will read them and may be there will be something more to say about it.

If the miracles of Muhammad are the proof for you, then okay, I respect your belief. But the trustworthiness of the written accounts about miracles can always be questioned. They also say about miracles of the North-Korean dictator Kim Jong-il: 'Even before his birth, the future leader of North Korea was triggering miracles. Official biographers say his birth in a cabin on the slopes of Baekdu Mountain in February 1942 was foretold by a swallow and heralded by a double rainbow. When he was born, a new star appeared in the night sky.' Although everyone outside North-Korea knows it is all a big lie, no one can neither prove nor disprove this information. Moreover Jesus clearly warns us that the false messiah's and false prophets will also make great miracles to make a big impression on the crowd, but not with the power of God.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Mandy
Welcome to the site daniel. I hope your stay with us allow you to learn a bit more about your islamic roots.
Please try to keep an open mind and remain open to hearing the message of Allah.
Thank you, Mandy. My mind is always open to everything, but my heart belongs to Jesus. I wish for you the same.
Reply

HabibUrrehman
10-04-2019, 05:26 PM
What you described is a blind faith. You choose to worship Jesus PBUH and Muslim worship one who created Jesus PBUH and whom Jesus PBUH worshiped and prayed to.

You also seem to be one who is inspired by David Wood and Nabeel. Nabeel was Qadiyani, who are not Muslims even if they cliam to be Muslims.
And David Wood is one who tried to kill his own father, I am not saying this he himself confessed it. A Psycho who can only twist the true message of Islam to spread hate. I dont have anything else to say if you are not willing to us ethe logic.
Good luck!
Reply

Ahmed.
10-05-2019, 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by Legal_alien
Okay, thank you for the links. I will read them and may be there will be something more to say about it.

If the miracles of Muhammad are the proof for you, then okay, I respect your belief. But the trustworthiness of the written accounts about miracles can always be questioned. They also say about miracles of the North-Korean dictator Kim Jong-il: 'Even before his birth, the future leader of North Korea was triggering miracles. Official biographers say his birth in a cabin on the slopes of Baekdu Mountain in February 1942 was foretold by a swallow and heralded by a double rainbow. When he was born, a new star appeared in the night sky.' Although everyone outside North-Korea knows it is all a big lie, no one can neither prove nor disprove this information. Moreover Jesus clearly warns us that the false messiah's and false prophets will also make great miracles to make a big impression on the crowd, but not with the power of God.

- - - Updated - - -


Thank you, Mandy. My mind is always open to everything, but my heart belongs to Jesus. I wish for you the same.
you should at least honour your dad's religion by finding out about it before you just dismiss it on whim: let me introoduce you to the most fool proof preservation and authentication science there ever was, the science of hadith. Our narrations of what the Prophet (saw) said and did are all verified via this precision science:

https://www.islamic-awareness.org/hadith/ulum/
Reply

Ahmed.
10-19-2019, 08:56 PM
LOL it's turned out you're the one who doesn't have anything constructive to say @Legal_alien , as your doin a runner indicates :Emoji48:
Reply

Avis
10-20-2019, 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by Ahmed.
LOL it's turned out you're the one who doesn't have anything constructive to say @Legal_alien , as your doin a runner indicates :Emoji48:
Just glossing over this thread gives me the feeling he was never Muslim in the first place and only came here to troll or spread his false religion.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-30-2019, 04:57 PM
  2. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-01-2010, 10:48 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-26-2008, 05:14 AM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-21-2007, 11:40 AM
  5. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-06-2005, 02:54 AM
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | UK Wholesale Certified Face Masks, Hand Sanitiser & PPE

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!