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InvestigateHagh
03-24-2023, 05:39 PM
Hello, I am a new member here.
This is my first thread as I believe one of the most important Keys to understand the Quran is verse 3:7.

When you read verse 3:7 of the Quran and think about it deeply, what questions comes
To your mind?

I am not here to answer the questions about this verse in this thread, but just wondering what questions may come to your mind, if any at all?
Reply

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A.R.BRahimbaksh
03-28-2023, 04:13 PM
Assalam walikum warahmatullah e wa barakhatuhu,

This verse is simple. This is common verse which I hope all know so I don't have any questions about it or nothing comes in my mind .but when I read it I think of those who are following the faith which is not right and some of those who were guided but the refused like being an ex Muslim and this verse always give peace .

Do you have any question about it ?

Jazak Allahu khairen
Reply

InvestigateHagh
03-30-2023, 03:16 PM
Hello,

Here are some questions comes to my mind about verse 3:7
This verse has been translated in many ways.
https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/3/7/


but generally could be read in two ways:

"He it is Who has sent down the Book upon thee; therein are signs determined; they are the Mother of the Book, and others symbolic. As for those whose hearts are given to swerving, they follow that of it which is symbolic, seeking temptation and seeking its interpretation. And none know its interpretation save God and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say, “We believe in it; all is from our Lord.” And none remember, save those who possess intellect" 3:7


"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding" 3-7

Here are some questions:

1. Why there are Mutishabihat and Muhkamaat in the Quran? Why not all of it Muhkamaat?

2. How can we tell what verse is Muhkam, and what verse Mutishabih?

3. How many verses are in Quran which are Mutishabihat?

4. If no one knows interpretation of the Mutishabihat, then how do we understand them?

5. Why would God reveal Mutishabihat verses which no one knows its interpretation except God?

6. Give some examples of Mutishabihat verses, and explain how you know they are Mutishabihat.

7. What does it mean, those who in their hearts is perversity, they follow its Mutishabihat?

8. Provide some examples of some Mutishabihat verses, that some people who in their heart was perversity had followed its Mutishabihaat, and caused perversity.

9. Who are the People who are Well-grounded in knowledge? Please give a few examples of such people, and prove it from the Quran, otherwise anyone can make this claim.


Thanks
Reply

A.R.BRahimbaksh
03-31-2023, 06:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InvestigateHagh
Hello,

Here are some questions comes to my mind about verse 3:7
This verse has been translated in many ways.
https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/3/7/


but generally could be read in two ways:

"He it is Who has sent down the Book upon thee; therein are signs determined; they are the Mother of the Book, and others symbolic. As for those whose hearts are given to swerving, they follow that of it which is symbolic, seeking temptation and seeking its interpretation. And none know its interpretation save God and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say, “We believe in it; all is from our Lord.” And none remember, save those who possess intellect" 3:7


"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding" 3-7

Here are some questions:

1. Why there are Mutishabihat and Muhkamaat in the Quran? Why not all of it Muhkamaat?

2. How can we tell what verse is Muhkam, and what verse Mutishabih?

3. How many verses are in Quran which are Mutishabihat?

4. If no one knows interpretation of the Mutishabihat, then how do we understand them?

5. Why would God reveal Mutishabihat verses which no one knows its interpretation except God?

6. Give some examples of Mutishabihat verses, and explain how you know they are Mutishabihat.

7. What does it mean, those who in their hearts is perversity, they follow its Mutishabihat?

8. Provide some examples of some Mutishabihat verses, that some people who in their heart was perversity had followed its Mutishabihaat, and caused perversity.

9. Who are the People who are Well-grounded in knowledge? Please give a few examples of such people, and prove it from the Quran, otherwise anyone can make this claim.


Thanks
Assalam walikum warahmatullah e wa barakhatuhu,
I will try my best to make you understand.
So first you have to know the real meaning of Muhkam and mutashabih ayah .The Quran has two types of ayah in it . The Muhkam and mutashabih ayah The Muhkam ayah are those ayah there meanings are clear .like the demanded and obligated farz or work ,for example: praying,fasting and avoid evil deeds etc.so these ayah are simply called Muhkam ayah .now ,let's know the real meaning of mutashabih ayah so there are the ayah whose are being discussed in a way which is not clear . you can say a symbolic way or a metaphorically. because there are some things that are beyond our imagination.like in Quran whenever it is talking about jannah it is written that There will be gardens under which rivers will flow.and about the hoor and their big eyes .the friuts of jannah so these are mutashabih ayah because we imagine that these gardens are like the gardens in here but actually the life after here is very different and the things in jannah are different as well so these are the things which we imagine.tge mutashabih ayah are for our blurry imagination that we can imagine them but actually what they are we don't know .like read this Hadith

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Allah said, "I have prepared for My Pious slaves things which have never been seen by an eye, or heard by an ear, or imagined by a human being." If you wish, you can recite this Verse from the Holy Qur'an:--"No soul knows what is kept hidden for them, of joy as a reward for what they used to do." sahih Al Bukharin 3244 .
Can you imagine these ?I hope so no . right?.
It is as well as in surat Al Sajdah .
Do you know the background of this ayah ?.
Ok , let's see it :
Once some Christians came to the service of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and started a religious discussion. He (peace be upon him) proved Tawheed by refuting the Christian belief of Trinity in great detail. These people presented some of their doubts. In which the Spirit of Jesus (peace be upon him) is mentioned by these words Jesus (peace be upon him). The presence of divinity is proved. So as you can see the ayah before it .and in this ayah and surah Allah has clear all the doubts .
Do you know about the spirit of Jesus and the verses about it?
So now I will try my best to answer your questions .
1: I hope it is clear now because the ummul kitab is the Muhkam ayah and the mutashabih ayah are for the blurry imagination or for those things which are beyond our imagination and they are being discussed symbolically. Like in many Hadith it is clear that Even after burial, the bodies of the Prophets are exactly as they were before.and shaheed are not dead . isn't it out of our imagination?can we imagine the day of justice but we know the blurry imagination not what exactly it is .

2:the difference is simple the Muhkam ayah are clear and mutashabih are not like the angels we know they are light but how are the exactly look like? It is not easy and we can't know but whenever it is angels we think of a light and white clothes .
3:sorry,I don't know the exact number of verse but some are:
Surah Taha verse 5 ,Qalam 42 ,fajr 22 and Fatah 10 .
4:the answer is told by the verse itself that we only have to believe on it . simple!
5:I already said because these are not the obligated works or things these are things to make someone understand by examples . The all mutashabih ayah are example for a person to understand them by somehow.
6:the most merciful is firm upon the throne .surat taha verse 5
See,here we cant understand how he is upon the throne.we know the throne but how? This is what god exactly know or maybe when it will be the hereafter we will understand it .
The hand of Allah is above their hands .surah Fatah verse 10 .do you know that god does not have any body part like aram ,hands,legs ,eyes and nose etc .but it is talking about hand see hand is something which we have so it is easy for us to understand about the hand but we don't know how the Allah hand ? Because he doesn't have anything like this .it is his characteristics.so it is not easy but not quite difficult to understand the mutashabih verses .
7: this means those Whose hearts are crooked or perversity they always try to find the meaning of mutashabih verses so form that they can create temptation. here it is referring to those who always wanted the meaning of mutashabih verses.

8: The Jesus in Quran is discussed by the name of sprit of Allah like once the Christans came to prophet and asked him that don't you believe that Jesus (PBUH) is sprit of Allah .he replied "yes ,I do " so then they (Christans believe that if he is the sprit of Allah so he is the son of Allah .then Allah has reveled many ayah one of them is. 59 verse In Al Imran surah .The likeness of Jesus in God's sight is that if Adam .the translation of the verse .
9: The knowledgeable person means those who are wis enough to understand the Quran like those who are Commentators and those who leave it to Allah whatever they think of a mutashabih.like Qur'anic verses or muqataat like the آلم no one know there real meaning there are the secret between Muhammad PBUH and Allah .
I hope it will help you . If I say something which hurt you please forgive me.

Jazak Allahu khairen
Reply

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InvestigateHagh
03-31-2023, 07:23 PM
Hello, and thanks for taking the time and replying to my questions.

If you don't mind, I ask more questions about this verse.

1. There is word in this verse Taweel تاويل

What does taweel mean, and what is the difference between taweel and tafseer.

2. There is a verse in Quran that says, Allah taught Taweel of Hadithes to pervious people and completed His favour upon them. Did Allah taught Taweel of Hadithes to some of them Muslims at all to complete His favor upon them as well?
If you are not sure what verse I will quote later.

3. Do you know some examples from the Quran that tells us what Taweel is?

4. Are there any Hadithes that Muhammad said, what Taweel is? Or any Hadith that Muhammad says this verse or that verse is Mutishabihat? I just want to see if Muhammad Himself said anything about that.
5. You referred to the disconnected letters. Is there any Hadith that Muhammad explains why Allah has said these disconnected letters, and why He did not reveal their secret meaning to everyone?

Thanks
Reply

A.R.BRahimbaksh
04-01-2023, 04:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InvestigateHagh
Hello, and thanks for taking the time and replying to my questions.

If you don't mind, I ask more questions about this verse.

1. There is word in this verse Taweel تاويل

What does taweel mean, and what is the difference between taweel and tafseer.

2. There is a verse in Quran that says, Allah taught Taweel of Hadithes to pervious people and completed His favour upon them. Did Allah taught Taweel of Hadithes to some of them Muslims at all to complete His favor upon them as well?
If you are not sure what verse I will quote later.

3. Do you know some examples from the Quran that tells us what Taweel is?

4. Are there any Hadithes that Muhammad said, what Taweel is? Or any Hadith that Muhammad says this verse or that verse is Mutishabihat? I just want to see if Muhammad Himself said anything about that.
5. You referred to the disconnected letters. Is there any Hadith that Muhammad explains why Allah has said these disconnected letters, and why He did not reveal their secret meaning to everyone?

Thanks
Assalam walikum warahmatullah e wa barakhatuhu,
No problem,
There is a word in this verse تَأْوِيلِهِ in this verse which means "the meaning","to refer "and"interpretation" I hope I'm not incorrect and the Tafsir refers to exegesis , usually of the Quran.A Quranic tafsir attempts to provide elucidation, explanation, interpretation, context or commentary for clear understanding and conviction of God's will. تَأْوِيلِهِ can be used in tafsir because it is simply mean "the meaning" .
2:can you please give the reference? I will see the the verse .
3: sorry,I don't know any Quranic verse wich clears what taweeluh is .
Because it is an Arabic word use for refereeing something.it is not a complicated or any specific word like mutashabih .it is same as we use "meaning"likewise, something like this.
4 :maybe but I don't know any Hadith about Muhammad saying about taweel .I am sorry.
And also not about what verse is mutashabih but yeah I know Hadith in which Muhammad says about mutashabih ayah but not any like which verse is mutashabih.
If you want these let me know I will post them .
5:no ,I don't know any Hadith but I know some Hadith which say about these letters and some say about it is a secret and code words but some Hadith say these are the name of almighty Allah.
I learn Hadith in my own language so I don't know any Hadith about taweel because it is not same .maybe there are Hadith about it.do you clear it from anyone else.

I think 29 surah of Quran are started from these letters .
If you want to know more about mutashabih ayah so check out this link

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Vgdm7_pV_kJHQQ

If I said something which hurts you please forgive me.
Jazak Allahu khairen.

- - - Updated - - -

format_quote Originally Posted by InvestigateHagh
Hello, and thanks for taking the time and replying to my questions.

If you don't mind, I ask more questions about this verse.

1. There is word in this verse Taweel تاويل

What does taweel mean, and what is the difference between taweel and tafseer.

2. There is a verse in Quran that says, Allah taught Taweel of Hadithes to pervious people and completed His favour upon them. Did Allah taught Taweel of Hadithes to some of them Muslims at all to complete His favor upon them as well?
If you are not sure what verse I will quote later.

3. Do you know some examples from the Quran that tells us what Taweel is?

4. Are there any Hadithes that Muhammad said, what Taweel is? Or any Hadith that Muhammad says this verse or that verse is Mutishabihat? I just want to see if Muhammad Himself said anything about that.
5. You referred to the disconnected letters. Is there any Hadith that Muhammad explains why Allah has said these disconnected letters, and why He did not reveal their secret meaning to everyone?

Thanks
Assalam walikum warahmatullah e wa barakhatuhu,
No problem,
There is a word in this verse تَأْوِيلِهِ in this verse which means "the meaning","to refer "and"interpretation" I hope I'm not incorrect and the Tafsir refers to exegesis , usually of the Quran.A Quranic tafsir attempts to provide elucidation, explanation, interpretation, context or commentary for clear understanding and conviction of God's will. تَأْوِيلِهِ can be used in tafsir because it is simply mean "the meaning" .
2:can you please give the reference? I will see the the verse .
3: sorry,I don't know any Quranic verse wich clears what taweeluh is .
Because it is an Arabic word use for refereeing something.it is not a complicated or any specific word like mutashabih .it is same as we use "meaning"likewise, something like this.
4 :maybe but I don't know any Hadith about Muhammad saying about taweel .I am sorry.
And also not about what verse is mutashabih but yeah I know Hadith in which Muhammad says about mutashabih ayah but not any like which verse is mutashabih.
If you want these let me know I will post them .
5:no ,I don't know any Hadith but I know some Hadith which say about these letters and some say about it is a secret and code words but some Hadith say these are the name of almighty Allah.
I learn Hadith in my own language so I don't know any Hadith about taweel because it is not same .maybe there are Hadith about it.do you clear it from anyone else.

I think 29 surah of Quran are started from these letters .
If you want to know more about mutashabih ayah so check out this link

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Vgdm7_pV_kJHQQ

If I said something which hurts you please forgive me.
Jazak Allahu khairen.
Reply

InvestigateHagh
04-01-2023, 08:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by A.R.BRahimbaksh




Assalam walikum warahmatullah e wa barakhatuhu,
No problem,
There is a word in this verse تَأْوِيلِهِ in this verse which means "the meaning","to refer "and"interpretation" I hope I'm not incorrect and the Tafsir refers to exegesis , usually of the Quran.A Quranic tafsir attempts to provide elucidation, explanation, interpretation, context or commentary for clear understanding and conviction of God's will. تَأْوِيلِهِ can be used in tafsir because it is simply mean "the meaning" .
2:can you please give the reference? I will see the the verse .
3: sorry,I don't know any Quranic verse wich clears what taweeluh is .
Because it is an Arabic word use for refereeing something.it is not a complicated or any specific word like mutashabih .it is same as we use "meaning"likewise, something like this.
4 :maybe but I don't know any Hadith about Muhammad saying about taweel .I am sorry.
And also not about what verse is mutashabih but yeah I know Hadith in which Muhammad says about mutashabih ayah but not any like which verse is mutashabih.
If you want these let me know I will post them .
5:no ,I don't know any Hadith but I know some Hadith which say about these letters and some say about it is a secret and code words but some Hadith say these are the name of almighty Allah.
I learn Hadith in my own language so I don't know any Hadith about taweel because it is not same .maybe there are Hadith about it.do you clear it from anyone else.

I think 29 surah of Quran are started from these letters .
If you want to know more about mutashabih ayah so check out this link

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Vgdm7_pV_kJHQQ

If I said something which hurts you please forgive me.
Jazak Allahu khairen.

Hello,

Thanks for the answers.

1. Do you mean to say, that Tafseer means explaining the Muhkamaat, and Taweel means interpretation of the Mutishabihat?
The word taweel, comes from the word Awwal اول، which means first and origin. So, how does a word اول، which means first or origin, can mean interpretation when it is said in the form of تفعيل، Taweel?

2. Yes, I was talking about verse 12:6 in Surrah of Joseph.

3. OK, for example in Surran of Joseph, he sees a dream, about 11 stars and moon and the sun. Then at the end of Surrah, it tells us the Taweel of this dream. So, do you think, from this example of the Quran, can be concluded that, Taweel means, interpretation of the Symbols? For example, in the Same Surrah, a Man saw a dream seven fat cows and seven skinny cows. Then after some verses, it eventually says, what is the Taweel of this Dream.

4. Sure, please post them

5. It is fine if you want to quite hadith from your own language. Would it be Arabic?
Thanks, I will check the link.

And there will be many many more questions coming up about this verse. Let me know whenever it is enough
Reply

A.R.BRahimbaksh
04-30-2023, 04:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InvestigateHagh
Hello,

Thanks for the answers.

1. Do you mean to say, that Tafseer means explaining the Muhkamaat, and Taweel means interpretation of the Mutishabihat?
The word taweel, comes from the word Awwal اول، which means first and origin. So, how does a word اول، which means first or origin, can mean interpretation when it is said in the form of تفعيل، Taweel?

2. Yes, I was talking about verse 12:6 in Surrah of Joseph.

3. OK, for example in Surran of Joseph, he sees a dream, about 11 stars and moon and the sun. Then at the end of Surrah, it tells us the Taweel of this dream. So, do you think, from this example of the Quran, can be concluded that, Taweel means, interpretation of the Symbols? For example, in the Same Surrah, a Man saw a dream seven fat cows and seven skinny cows. Then after some verses, it eventually says, what is the Taweel of this Dream.

4. Sure, please post them

5. It is fine if you want to quite hadith from your own language. Would it be Arabic?
Thanks, I will check the link.

And there will be many many more questions coming up about this verse. Let me know whenever it is enough
Assaalamu alaykum,

I am extremely extremely sorry,please forgive me.i didn't notice your post . I waited but I don't know how but I have seen it now .just .

No I don't mean that tafseer is for Muhkam ayah .no way because Quran contain two type of verse .Muhkam and mutashabih ayah .so tafseer is used for Quran which means both of them .
Taweel is a word which means "the interpretation ",the meaning " it is not specifically use for any kind of verse whenever the it is come for saying the meaning, interpretation, thi word is used .
I am not confirm where is this verse derived or come from .can you please give the reference.
2: I have just checked out the verse of surah Joseph .not only in 6 verse .21 ,36 ,37 and 44 also have thi word .
3 : taweel mean the meaning or the interpretation so in these all verses the meaning of this word is construe in my language.but in every language the translation of this word
of this verse is something which refers to the interpretation of dream .
4 : ok I will post them .
5 no ,I am not arab ,my language is not arabic .
Yeah sure ,you can ask .when I know I will try to make it clear or explain to you .
But if I don't know I am sorry . because I just know the basic .

If my word hurts you please forgive me I am sorry.
Jazaka Allahu khairen
Reply

A.R.BRahimbaksh
04-30-2023, 04:21 PM
Assaalamu alaykum,

Here are the verses translation.
Verse 6 : And thus will your Lord choose you and teach you the interpretation of narratives and complete His favor upon you and upon the family of Jacob, as He completed it upon your fathers before, Abraham and Isaac. Indeed, your Lord is Knowing and Wise.”
21: And the one from Egypt who bought him said to his wife, “Make his residence comfortable. Perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son.” And thus, We established Joseph in the land that We might teach him the interpretation of events. And Allah is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.
36 : And there entered the prison with him two young men. One of them said, “Indeed, I have seen myself [in a dream] pressing wine.” The other said, “Indeed, I have seen myself carrying upon my head [some] bread, from which the birds were eating. Inform us of its interpretation; indeed, we see you to be of those who do good.”
37 : He said, “You will not receive food that is provided to you except that I will inform you of its interpretation before it comes to you. That is from what my Lord has taught me. Indeed, I have left the religion of a people who do not believe in Allah, and they, in the Hereafter, are disbelievers.
44 : They said, “[It is but] a mixture of false dreams, and we are not learned in the interpretation of dreams.”


If you want to know about the all Hadith with clear explanation.check out the link .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...PxPkUUbtD_u9XT

Jazaka Allahu khairen
Reply

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