How can this be?

[sargon]

Hadith - Bukhari 8:151, Narrated 'Aisha
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet , and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Yet the prophet was very strict about any facet of the law:
Sahih Muslim, Book 17, Number 4188:

'A'isha, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), reported that the Quraish were concerned about the woman who had committed theft during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), in the expedition of Victory (of Mecca). They said: Who would speak to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about her? They (again) said: Who can dare do this but Usama b Zaid, the loved one of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ? She was brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and Usama b. Zaid spoke about her to him (interceded on her behalf). The colour of the face of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) changed, and he said: Do you intercede in one of the prescribed punishments of Allah? He (Usama) said: 'Messenger of Allah, seek forgiveness for me. When it was dusk. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up and gave an address. He (first) glorified Allah as He deserves, and then said: Now to our topic. This (injustice) destroyed those before you that when any one of (high) rank committed theft among them, they spared him, and when any weak one among them committed theft, they inflicted the prescribed punishment upon him. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, even if Fatima daughter of Muhammad were to commit theft, I would have cut off her hand. He (the Holy Prophet) then commanded about that woman who had committed theft, and her hand was cut off. 'A'isha (further) said: Hers was a good respentance, and she later on married and used to come to me after that, and I conveyed her needs (and problems) to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him).



Even if Fatima where to commit theft, he would cut off her hand. Why then would he allow Aisha to make partners with Allah? Playing with a doll or having a picture is almost the same as associating partners with Allah, because you're indirectly implying the creator ofthe doll, or you by playing with the doll, gives it life, which only Allah can give.

That's not the issue, the issue is how can Muhhammed (pbuh) allow Aisha to play with the doll if it is forbidden?

Does this mean that children are not responsible for what they do and can go untold of the haraam they are commiting? Even if no sin will be recorded I don't understand why the prophet would allow it to be done in his sight, it makes no sense. I'm sure it would've been very easy to play with her, or find some healthier means of entertainment rather than not saying or allowing anything to happen.... :?

[swanlake]

:sl:

I dont know why this wasnt answered. I will try to later inshallh

[IbnAbdulHakim]

firstly dont go thinkin too much, clearly what the prophet (saws) done was the best action to be taken.
Yes dolls are forbidden but due to aisha's age (which was prob 6-9 which is extremely young, so young they wont understand) the prophet (saws) allowed it.

Bro i dont have much knowledge but i do kno that the prophet always said "be leniant wiv the young" and thats exactly what he did :)

:sl:

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:

Playing with a doll or having a picture is almost the same as associating partners with Allah

Brother, playing with a doll is not shirk. And secondly, it is not a crime of the state which is punishable with a hadd (prescribed) punishment. When someone commits a state crime, the punishment must be carried in the event of a conviction.

:w:

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[------]

Playing with a doll or having a picture is almost the same as associating partners with Allah, because you're indirectly implying the creator ofthe doll, or you by playing with the doll, gives it life, which only Allah can give.

:sl:

Errrrrrrrrr NO - playing with a doll is not forbidden actually and what do you mean by playing with the doll gives it life?!

I mean common sense little kids play with dolls - I used to do that :rollseyes But it is in NO WAY Haraam - If it is brother then please give me a Hadith/Qur'anic reference.

Jazakallah

And Allah swt knows best.

:w:

[Malsidabym]

firstly dont go thinkin too much, clearly what the prophet (saws) done was the best action to be taken.
Yes dolls are forbidden but due to aisha's age (which was prob 6-9 which is extremely young, so young they wont understand) the prophet (saws) allowed it.

Bro i dont have much knowledge but i do kno that the prophet always said "be leniant wiv the young" and thats exactly what he did :)

:sl:

Yes, don't go thinking too much.

[afriend]

Yes, don't go thinking too much.

LOL

You must try and understand the Ahadeeth, as well as the Quraan, for e.g. u can't just go and read the Quraan and know everything, u need to know the explanation of every songle ayah...and if it is not sahih( not sayin this 1 isn't) don't start playin around with it...cos it's bounded to be twisted.

[Snowflake]

I read somewhere that the dolls Aisha (ra) played with were made with rags filled with stuffing of some sort and did not in anyway resemble a human being e.g did not have hair or facial features. They certainly didn't have dolls like barbie in those days. Plus it's only haraam to create a complete likeness of living things, especially for decorative purposes.

[abdul Majid]

:sl:

Brother, playing with a doll is not shirk. And secondly, it is not a crime of the state which is punishable with a hadd (prescribed) punishment. When someone commits a state crime, the punishment must be carried in the event of a conviction.

:w:

i think this brother answered the question well....

wasalam

[sargon]

:sl:
Oh.. I heard dolls were shirk and so are pictures, it was from a website. Thanks for the answers.
:w:

[laylatul qadar]

How can dolls be shirk? I've always played with them. Nobody told me they were shirk?

can u plz provide evidence to back u up?
thanx
:salambox:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

How can dolls be shirk? I've always played with them. Nobody told me they were shirk?

can u plz provide evidence to back u up?
thanx
:salambox:

hmm i read the hadith by sahih al-bukhari where:

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)


this seems to show that its allowed..... mayb im interpreting is wrong :?

[Muslim Knight]

How can dolls be shirk? I've always played with them. Nobody told me they were shirk?

can u plz provide evidence to back u up?
thanx
:salambox:

Shirk means associating partners with Allah. How can playing with a doll be associating partners with Allah? The hadith clearly states sayyidatina A'ishah r.a. was;

1. A little girl at that time.
2. Playing with the doll.
3. Not associating the doll as partner to Allah.
4. Not even worshipping the doll.
5. It's a doll, not an idol!

Playing is not same as worshipping. Clearly it is not shirk!

[vpb]

doll cannot be considered shirk, sometimes kids are shy to express themselves with somebody esle, so they express their imagination to the doll, they keep it as a friend :)

[laylatul qadar]

Playing is not same as worshipping. Clearly it is not shirk!

thanx for answering

[Daffodil]

Asalamulaikum.

laymen shudnt interpret hadith because often then not they are in reference to something.

The reason why ppl say its not permissible to play with dolls is because they have features, it is prohibited to create an image because on the day of judgment Allah swt will ask those who created images/pictures etc to giv life to it.

Also some scholars say that, that paticular hadith was from before the actual time that prohibition of images came about. there fore the prophet saw didnt say anything.

if u research this harder u will see that scholars say her doll was made from rags not like they are today, also the scholars say if a doll/teddy etc is incomplete ie, it doesnt have distinctive features, ie, doesnt have eyes, nose etc then its permissible as its incomplete.


u have to be careful when coming to conclusions about certain hadith because we as laymen dnt have sufficient knowledge. we wud need to turn to knowledgeable scholars who have studied countless hadith etc.

if u go on to islam q and a or other fatwah sites n typed in the word picture/toys/dolls lots of things will come up about the issue. best to research it n see what the scholars have to say, its not difficult to find info on the internet.

[Alphaseed]

IN the middle East we consider puberty the age at which a person becomes responssible, never the less a child should be gently shown the right path.

Alphaseed Ha- Kafir

[seek.learn]

u have to be careful when coming to conclusions about certain hadith because we as laymen dnt have sufficient knowledge. we wud need to turn to knowledgeable scholars who have studied countless hadith etc.

Salaam o Alaikum wa rahmatullah,

JazakAllah for providing the info that you did and this most important point we need to keep in mind, InshaAllah.

May Allah guide us to the straight path and show us the truth.

AllahuAlim!

Alaikum Salaam wa rahmatullah

[Daffodil]

IN the middle East we consider puberty the age at which a person becomes responssible, never the less a child should be gently shown the right path.

Alphaseed Ha- Kafir

this isnt only in the middle east, this is what is from islam, that when a child hits puberty he/she then becomes responsible for its actions.

[united]

It is haram to make images/statues of living things.
These "dolls" did not resemble a living thing in any way (they were just rags), therefore these "dolls" were not haram.

[i_m_tipu]

It is haram to make images/statues of living things.
These "dolls" did not resemble a living thing in any way (they were just rags), therefore these "dolls" were not haram.

does The Qur'an or any Authentic Hadis Support.

but it is almost unavoidable to get rid of images/statues of living in the current world system

in education or any research we have to use images for better understanding {many more...}
how can a use of image of living thing is Fodbiden if it has no connection to shirk and unhramfull.

i don't know but i must say we make our life harder and harder...

we must work such thing, debate such thing, developed such thing what make the Ummaah united...

i fell so Frustrated when above issue is ignored and very minor issue is bolded.

if i am wrong can u make me clear

[united]

see this http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546438

[i_m_tipu]

:thankyou: for the link

Its make me happy :happy: (thou i was expected more dalil (prof)


I read that article also want u read carefully

However, this prohibition can be relaxed just for the sake of studying. For example, making portraits of the human body for the sake of studying can be considered a necessity that relaxes the prohibition. Also, if making statues is used for the sake of studying, and the students have to do it, then it is considered permissible.

Also, there are other educational, scientific, or medical purposes, such as books for teaching anatomy and illustrated posters for education, in which there are portraits of living things and even humans; I see that they are permitted in view of the norm of necessity mentioned above. The same applies for the textbooks for children, as portraits and pictures in such books are also for educational purposes.

hope u may be carefull later not to say like this

It is haram to make images/statues of living things.

[united]

well i was just generalising inmy earlies post
i shudnt hav done.

[Alphaseed]

this isnt only in the middle east, this is what is from islam, that when a child hits puberty he/she then becomes responsible for its actions.

I sn't that were the prophet lived ? and where did Islam Originate ? :rollseyes

[Muslimaatan]

my teacher asked me 2 define "shirk" the other day..and i was makin a long story..so he was givin examples of wearin a bracelet for good luck..and finally got 2 the point which is shirk...well..i dunno y i said this..juss tryna get up 2 my 50th post :-D

["..MariAm.."]

ASALAMOALIKUM
arghh .......dont u ppl ........know? the dolls with which hazrat ayesha used to play DINT HAVE FACES !! THEY bodies were filled with rags ..... and those dolls dint even resemble a live body becoz they dint have any faces...they just had hairs...
and yes evry ....picture bearing eyes .... is haram... like taking photos is not allowed... and ...secondly a person's prayer can not be offered if their is a picture ...near ...him/her bearing eyes...
and its also not allowed to play with dolls.becoz these days we can see that the dolls resembles a human body ! ..
but i have learned from my quranic classes that those ...dolls with wich hazrat ayesha used to play dint have any kind of resemblance to a human body becoz their faces were stuffed with rags ...